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  1. #11
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    Hi Sora

    The reactions you describe are typical in the UK too. I would never tell anybody that I was doing this for all of the reasons that you talk about

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  3. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sora View Post
    I find it interesting too. DH and his brother, who are from a boys-only family, have been conceived while their mother was heavily smoking and drinking and taking BC pills. They are also all quite the meat lovers. Both DH and his brother have been introduced to red meat (adult portions) as early as 6 months-old by their grandparents who still had bad memories from WW2.

    Most vegans I know (veganism has been booming in France lately) have boys while vegetarians tend to have more daughters. Also some people I knew who were meat lovers and became vegetarians had daughters following their diet changes while they only had boys before. But it's hard to say if it's only due to what they eat or if it comes from other things (timing, stress... ?).

    The specialists supporting gender swaying in France amount to 2 or 3 but are heavily criticized and even ostracized by the rest of the french scientific community. Doesn't keep them from writing books, making appointements and giving interviews but they have to face accusations of being nazis eugenists...

    ... and there you have one half of your answer about why gender swaying is heavily taboo in France, why docs and gyns who agree with it (and it seems there are quite a few) keep silent and only the French Diet and Shettles are known to the general public.

    People, here and in other European countries, are still deeply traumatized by the eugenic madness of neighbouring Germany during WW2. Any attempt at influencing gender (chromosomes XX and XY), for any reasons other than looking for some cure to terrible or life-threatening illnesses, are seen as advocating nazism. High-tech swaying such as Gender Selection IVF is illegal, prenatal genetic testings are only available to mothers with a history of dangerous medical conditions and/or high-risk pregnancies (or if something seems really wrong during ultrasounds)... And even then, gender is hidden from them as the docs running the tests are required by the law to refuse to answer any question about it. So the only way to know the sex is to wait for the 20-weeks or so ultrasound. Some docs and gyns do cheat and tell the parents but it's a rare thing. Most will act very coldly and even openly despise you if you dare ask.

    Even when swaying naturally, you can't speak openly about it. Women who do often face accusations of secretely wishing for Aryans babies, of lowering themselves to "buying a gender"... It can go as far as accusing them of secretely dreaming of killing their children of opposite genders.

    Blue swayers have it the hardest. We have China and India thrown in our faces, are accused of supporting gynocide (even though we have 2, 3, 4 adorable daughters ) and our DH are suspected of harboring misogynistic tendencies... cause "the ultimate gift for a mother is a daughter and she should not wish for any other child if she is already blessed with one... so if there's any longing for a boy, it MUST come from the horrible patriarchal husband".

    Even in our forums we get attacked by parents who have children of both genders (of course, hypocrites much ?) or by people diagnosed with infertility... which is ironic since a large chunk of swayers ARE people going through IVF for medical reasons and trying to get their chances up for both genders since they will only have a few shots at TTC.

    Hope I answered your question.
    Wow, I can't believe I never thought of that! That makes so much sense why it's still so taboo over there -- which has always been bizarre to me, since Europe is generally much more progressive than America, for example, especially when it comes to medical stuff. Canada still leaves me scratching my head though (as it's in similar legal weirdness up there).

    Thank you for sharing that info -- and I'm so sorry it's so difficult to be open about it! For what it's worth, no one is open about it in the U.S., haha. Everyone still secretly just goes on forums to discuss! And that is definitely a frustrating stereotype about "the best gift for a mother is a daughter." My husband is who wanted girls -- I wanted boys!! So when someone says something to him about having a daughter, he is REALLY offended; as am I!


    I think a French thread would be great! We have a French blue swayer Chez who is great, and had a baby within the last year -- hopefully she'll be back on more regularly too to help get the thread kicking!

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  5. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sora View Post
    I find it interesting too. DH and his brother, who are from a boys-only family, have been conceived while their mother was heavily smoking and drinking and taking BC pills. They are also all quite the meat lovers. Both DH and his brother have been introduced to red meat (adult portions) as early as 6 months-old by their grandparents who still had bad memories from WW2.

    Most vegans I know (veganism has been booming in France lately) have boys while vegetarians tend to have more daughters. Also some people I knew who were meat lovers and became vegetarians had daughters following their diet changes while they only had boys before. But it's hard to say if it's only due to what they eat or if it comes from other things (timing, stress... ?).

    The specialists supporting gender swaying in France amount to 2 or 3 but are heavily criticized and even ostracized by the rest of the french scientific community. Doesn't keep them from writing books, making appointements and giving interviews but they have to face accusations of being nazis eugenists...

    ... and there you have one half of your answer about why gender swaying is heavily taboo in France, why docs and gyns who agree with it (and it seems there are quite a few) keep silent and only the French Diet and Shettles are known to the general public.

    People, here and in other European countries, are still deeply traumatized by the eugenic madness of neighbouring Germany during WW2. Any attempt at influencing gender (chromosomes XX and XY), for any reasons other than looking for some cure to terrible or life-threatening illnesses, are seen as advocating nazism. High-tech swaying such as Gender Selection IVF is illegal, prenatal genetic testings are only available to mothers with a history of dangerous medical conditions and/or high-risk pregnancies (or if something seems really wrong during ultrasounds)... And even then, gender is hidden from them as the docs running the tests are required by the law to refuse to answer any question about it. So the only way to know the sex is to wait for the 20-weeks or so ultrasound. Some docs and gyns do cheat and tell the parents but it's a rare thing. Most will act very coldly and even openly despise you if you dare ask.

    Even when swaying naturally, you can't speak openly about it. Women who do often face accusations of secretely wishing for Aryans babies, of lowering themselves to "buying a gender"... It can go as far as accusing them of secretely dreaming of killing their children of opposite genders.

    Blue swayers have it the hardest. We have China and India thrown in our faces, are accused of supporting gynocide (even though we have 2, 3, 4 adorable daughters ) and our DH are suspected of harboring misogynistic tendencies... cause "the ultimate gift for a mother is a daughter and she should not wish for any other child if she is already blessed with one... so if there's any longing for a boy, it MUST come from the horrible patriarchal husband".

    Even in our forums we get attacked by parents who have children of both genders (of course, hypocrites much ?) or by people diagnosed with infertility... which is ironic since a large chunk of swayers ARE people going through IVF for medical reasons and trying to get their chances up for both genders since they will only have a few shots at TTC.

    Hope I answered your question.
    Wooooooow, Sora...that’s reeeaaally Crazy!!!

    I live in Austria, which is as you know the home country of Hitler, and lets say „we“ have been pretty involved in Euthanasia and WW2 too, but despite some rolling eyes I would never be confronted with any other accusations if I would tell about my swaying.
    In fact, hardly anybody here knows that something like gender swaying exists!! So I don‘t dare to share my current swaying or diet with anybody, because they would only laugh at me, no one would believe that it actually works!

    I know that in China (we have relatives from there) telling the gender before birth is a taboo, but I didn‘t know that this is common in France, too!
    Here in Austria you can ask your tech, and if he‘s willing to make a guess he will tell you his opinion at as soon as 12 weeks!

    Prenatal testing and scans are veeeery common, literally everybody does it. And you can do genetic testing anytime, if you want, and also know the gender!

    As I said, I don’t talk about swaying not because I would be afraid of negative reactions but I don‘t want to be told a fool lol


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  7. #14
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    amazing thread I'd love to sound off on, please bump this for me as I'm nearly out of time for today.
    !!! Questions?? Check out the NEW and improved Complete Index !!!

    If you appreciate my help with your sway plan, please consider a donation:

    https://www.paypal.com/donate?hosted_button_id=C92U9TVWTRTDQ

  8. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ohdeer View Post
    Great - I’ve had a lot of full fat dairy, especially Greek yoghurt. And cheese! I feel for you having to give it up. I found oat milk to be the best substitute in drinks ie tea and coffee. It is the most like skim milk of all the non dairy milks. I was also eating it in porridge made with rolled oats for breakfast (it was winter time then!) Good luck, I hope you get your boy!
    Miss cheese and especially milk but it's not for life. If it helps getting me my baby boy, it will have been worth it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Throwaway_panther View Post
    Wow, I can't believe I never thought of that! That makes so much sense why it's still so taboo over there -- which has always been bizarre to me, since Europe is generally much more progressive than America, for example, especially when it comes to medical stuff.
    You're right, Europe is more progressive in medical stuff, except when it comes to genetics. More specifically, researching chromosomes is okay and all but the general public is quite misinformed about it, either from the scientists thinking nobody would be able to understand or because everyone feel uneasy about tampering with human DNA. This ends up backfiring since people are easily confused about that subject. We can see that when they get all "First they want to choose the gender and then they will ask for perfect blonde-haired blue-eyed babies"... It's stupid because selecting sperm IS NOT tampering with chromosomes. We are talking about something that is already there : ie XX sperm and XY sperm. We didn't buy it, didn't create it from dust, it's there and it's about favoring one over the other... which nature does already, although not quite as often as we would want hence the sway...

    If people knew their genetics, they would realize that no matter how advanced we are now, we still can't tamper with DNA without causing spectacular side-effects, most of them life-threatening. It is not as easy as Gene 1 for blue, Gene 2 for green, Gene 3 for brown, then onto the next chromosome 1-Hair, 2-Weight, 3-Height. Eye-color for example is ruled by a multitude of genes on different chromosomes (mainly chromosome 15), switching on and off as they feel like. We do not even know most of them and where they may hide. We still don't understand why sometimes they switch on, why some other time they switch off. One thing we know for sure though : touching, hurting or even breaking them can change the color... but can cause much worse ---> one of the main genes of blue/green also rules sodium/potassium/calcium... touch it and have fun seeing the embryo cells break appart.

    Plus, you have to inherit some genes to get (and pass on) some physical characteristics. You can't create them through IVF. You could achieve some result by tampering with and switching on/off some other genes but at the risk of fatally crippling your unborn child. No sane parents would take such a huge risk.

    So... no, no one, swayer or else, will be able to walk into a clinic and ask for a blue-eyed immortal child or whatever. Unless he or she wants a sick one. And even if it became a possiblity in the future, if you do not have the right genes, no matter how much you pay, your only way of having your wish will be to carry the child of someone else.

    Quote Originally Posted by Linni View Post
    Wooooooow, Sora...that’s reeeaaally Crazy!!!

    I live in Austria, which is as you know the home country of Hitler, and lets say „we“ have been pretty involved in Euthanasia and WW2 too, but despite some rolling eyes I would never be confronted with any other accusations if I would tell about my swaying.
    In fact, hardly anybody here knows that something like gender swaying exists!! So I don‘t dare to share my current swaying or diet with anybody, because they would only laugh at me, no one would believe that it actually works!

    I know that in China (we have relatives from there) telling the gender before birth is a taboo, but I didn‘t know that this is common in France, too!
    Here in Austria you can ask your tech, and if he‘s willing to make a guess he will tell you his opinion at as soon as 12 weeks!

    Prenatal testing and scans are veeeery common, literally everybody does it. And you can do genetic testing anytime, if you want, and also know the gender!

    As I said, I don’t talk about swaying not because I would be afraid of negative reactions but I don‘t want to be told a fool lol


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    That's surprising, I never thought people in Austria could do genetic testing anytime ! I've seen people talking about it like it's a normal occurence on the forums but here it is not something anyone can do... Without the excuse of high-risk pregnancy or dangerous medical condition, you can't ask for genetic testing. Technically, I could have asked for it since DH has a bad case of hereditary eye-cancer running in the family... but when we broached the subject for DD1, the docs went all uneasy and said "oh it's okay we don't need to do that, your husband doesn't have cancer so it's safe, don't bother with genetic scans and stuff". Even if they had agreed to run the test, we would only have been able to ask about the cancer. If we had tried to ask for the gender, we would have been coldly rebuked, like "What does it matter to you anyway ? Aren't you happy getting a healthy baby ?". It has also happened to people trying IVF... if they ask for the gender of their embryos, they are often told "you'll see for yourself at the 20 weeks ultrasound, it doesn't matter right ?".

    Same with the 12 weeks ultrasound. Many gyns get frankly uneasy when you ask for the gender and refuse to even try to predict it. Others do tell you. But all in all, they are pressured to keep silent cause 12 weeks is still legal for abortion and they fear an outbreak of radical gender selection like in China or India.

    The only occurence of all of them willingly telling you before 20 weeks, sadly, is when you miscarry...
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  10. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sora View Post
    Miss cheese and especially milk but it's not for life. If it helps getting me my baby boy, it will have been worth it.



    You're right, Europe is more progressive in medical stuff, except when it comes to genetics. More specifically, researching chromosomes is okay and all but the general public is quite misinformed about it, either from the scientists thinking nobody would be able to understand or because everyone feel uneasy about tampering with human DNA. This ends up backfiring since people are easily confused about that subject. We can see that when they get all "First they want to choose the gender and then they will ask for perfect blonde-haired blue-eyed babies"... It's stupid because selecting sperm IS NOT tampering with chromosomes. We are talking about something that is already there : ie XX sperm and XY sperm. We didn't buy it, didn't create it from dust, it's there and it's about favoring one over the other... which nature does already, although not quite as often as we would want hence the sway...

    If people knew their genetics, they would realize that no matter how advanced we are now, we still can't tamper with DNA without causing spectacular side-effects, most of them life-threatening. It is not as easy as Gene 1 for blue, Gene 2 for green, Gene 3 for brown, then onto the next chromosome 1-Hair, 2-Weight, 3-Height. Eye-color for example is ruled by a multitude of genes on different chromosomes (mainly chromosome 15), switching on and off as they feel like. We do not even know most of them and where they may hide. We still don't understand why sometimes they switch on, why some other time they switch off. One thing we know for sure though : touching, hurting or even breaking them can change the color... but can cause much worse ---> one of the main genes of blue/green also rules sodium/potassium/calcium... touch it and have fun seeing the embryo cells break appart.

    Plus, you have to inherit some genes to get (and pass on) some physical characteristics. You can't create them through IVF. You could achieve some result by tampering with and switching on/off some other genes but at the risk of fatally crippling your unborn child. No sane parents would take such a huge risk.

    So... no, no one, swayer or else, will be able to walk into a clinic and ask for a blue-eyed immortal child or whatever. Unless he or she wants a sick one. And even if it became a possiblity in the future, if you do not have the right genes, no matter how much you pay, your only way of having your wish will be to carry the child of someone else.



    That's surprising, I never thought people in Austria could do genetic testing anytime ! I've seen people talking about it like it's a normal occurence on the forums but here it is not something anyone can do... Without the excuse of high-risk pregnancy or dangerous medical condition, you can't ask for genetic testing. Technically, I could have asked for it since DH has a bad case of hereditary eye-cancer running in the family... but when we broached the subject for DD1, the docs went all uneasy and said "oh it's okay we don't need to do that, your husband doesn't have cancer so it's safe, don't bother with genetic scans and stuff". Even if they had agreed to run the test, we would only have been able to ask about the cancer. If we had tried to ask for the gender, we would have been coldly rebuked, like "What does it matter to you anyway ? Aren't you happy getting a healthy baby ?". It has also happened to people trying IVF... if they ask for the gender of their embryos, they are often told "you'll see for yourself at the 20 weeks ultrasound, it doesn't matter right ?".

    Same with the 12 weeks ultrasound. Many gyns get frankly uneasy when you ask for the gender and refuse to even try to predict it. Others do tell you. But all in all, they are pressured to keep silent cause 12 weeks is still legal for abortion and they fear an outbreak of radical gender selection like in China or India.

    The only occurence of all of them willingly telling you before 20 weeks, sadly, is when you miscarry...
    That’s really a strange phenomenon. I mean, we all know, that a healthy baby is the overall most important thing when it comes to ttc.
    But as you said, why aren‘t we not allowed to prefer one gender over the other...? Especially when we already have 1,2,... kids of one gender...? The negative comments always seem to come from those parents (moms..) who have both. :-/

    Yes, abortion is legal until the 12th week here too, but the tech with the 2nd boy told me without asking me..
    Is there in France also the „Combined Test“, where they make an U/S and draw blood from the mother to make predictions about the odds in percentage of a genetic disorder?
    We can also do a amniozetese (?), where they take cells from the placenta through the mother‘s stomach. But since this has the risk of a m/c they widely recommend the Harmony Test now, which is very expensive (600ish € because they would send the blood sample to the USA...) but you know exactly if there is something wrong and if you want to, they tell you the gender.



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  11. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Linni View Post
    That’s really a strange phenomenon. I mean, we all know, that a healthy baby is the overall most important thing when it comes to ttc.
    But as you said, why aren‘t we not allowed to prefer one gender over the other...? Especially when we already have 1,2,... kids of one gender...? The negative comments always seem to come from those parents (moms..) who have both. :-/

    Yes, abortion is legal until the 12th week here too, but the tech with the 2nd boy told me without asking me..
    Is there in France also the „Combined Test“, where they make an U/S and draw blood from the mother to make predictions about the odds in percentage of a genetic disorder?
    We can also do a amniozetese (?), where they take cells from the placenta through the mother‘s stomach. But since this has the risk of a m/c they widely recommend the Harmony Test now, which is very expensive (600ish € because they would send the blood sample to the USA...) but you know exactly if there is something wrong and if you want to, they tell you the gender.



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    Yeah, the Combined Test exist in France but the only thing they will tell you is if there's a risk of a genetic disorder. Not a word about the other chromosomes and the gender.

    Amnio is there but only used if other tests have shown something worrying since it can cause miscarriages. And even when amnio is done, not a word about gender too but I guess from that point on, mothers are more worried about baby's health and survival than the gender of course...

    Harmony Test do exist, is expensive, but you cannot ask for it if you don't have a medical condition or serious risk of the baby having a genetic disorder (mothers who had lots of trouble having their IVF work for example can ask for it to make sure that the surviving embryos were not damaged and will not end up in a stillbirth). And even then, gender will only be revealed to the parents if it has something to do with the anomaly (hemophilia comes to mind, it's one of the only disease that leads to high-tech gender selection here).

    As for why we're not allowed to dream of a gender, my guess is it comes from a combination of ignorance, clichés and fear :

    - Fear of an outbreak of gender selection rupturing the balance between male/female in the general population... despite more than one studies showing quite the contrary -> all around the world people wish for boys and girls alike, girls are even a bit more popular. It actually IS a risk but it could easily be countered by a law making HT Gender Selection only possible for people with 2 or more children of the same sex.
    - Clichés like the one where a woman can't wish for a boy because what would she do with it and that any woman desiring a boy must be coerced into it by some violent husband, father, brother, whatever male around her. And all the "poor angel it must be so hard to have a male-only family, she must feel so alone, it's a shame she wasn't able to know the joys of a daughter".
    - And the cliché that a woman cannot be complete if she doesn't pop out a mini-her to play dolls and dress-up with... hence the "why are you still not happy, you have girls now, go do 'girly things' with them" while the father ironically is pitied or derided for not having a son to play with or inherit his name.
    - It's all the more stupid because whatever she has, a woman is deemed a failure if she can't birth both anyway. But still you will forbid her to think about swaying cause it's "unethical", go figures...
    - Also, the fact that the general population fail genetics forever and think tampering with DNA is a piece of cake. So when you speak "selection", they are already imagining evil scientists in a lab changing male/female embryos into the opposite or whatever aliens and throwing them in a trashcan when that fails while smirking mothers-to-be watch in the background.
    - Another general fail in the population : "and what will you do if your boy turns up gay or your girl ends up liking sports and wanting to become a soldier"... Bundle of mistakes, first about our reason for wanting them : I'm pretty sure it's the case for everyone but it's not to see them "act" like a boy/girl is supposed to... but because whatever and whoever they become in the end, a relationship with a daughter is different than one with a son, period. And it's that undescribable difference we want to experience.
    And other fail : someone gay doesn't magically turn into the opposite sex. Very manly, very burly guys are gay so no, I wouldn't say "oh heck it's like having a girl all over again"...
    Same with a girl into sports : one of my highschool friend was a champion at basket and horseriding, won many competitions, very big, very muscular... Don't think her parents called her "son".
    - And now the best one, fear of having an outbreak of Aryan babies cause it's a well-known fact that even if it was possible in the first place, EVERYONE on Earth would only want blonde and blue...
    2014 ------- surprise 2016

    Dreaming of a

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    So back to the sway...

    From what I understood, things that sway blue are :

    - Not skipping breakfast. Eating a good one, mostly cereals. Back when I still ate breakfast I would have Special K Original with a fruit and milk. Switched the milk for a glass of 100% fruit juice. (orange, apple or grapes)

    - Lots of meat. I have meat twice a day, mostly dried beef and chicken slices, sometimes chicken tenders, sausages.
    - Lots of fruits. For now I've managed to eat 2-3 fruits a day, mostly apples, bananas and mangos.
    - Half a bottle of 100% fruit juice per day.
    - Also added a full bottle of alcaline mineral water with a good portion of sodium/potassium per day.

    I'd rather stay far away from dairy. I know some of you have had boys with it but both my daughters were conceived while consuming massive amounts of whole/full fat dairy products such as Greek yoghurt, milk (a bottle a day) and lots of cheese everywhere... and mothers of boys around me hate dairy with a passion, except for one yoghurt at dinner and cheese from time to time. So not convinced about it swaying blue. I would say neutral with a bit of pink depending on the amount of milk.

    Now I'm most curious about frequency since I never tried that. DH and I DTD only once a week and can go two-three weeks without anything happening. I picked the habit from my ex who was rarely home because studies and work (poor DH has a bit of trouble with that since he has high sex-drive ^^"). Also there's still a strong belief in France about abstinence swaying blue so there is that. It's also firmly believed that DTD from AF to O-day sways pink while DTD from O-day to O+3 swings blue.

    But it seems I've read quite the contrary here so I'm a bit lost.

    As for us, DD1 was conceived 3 days before O in only one try after months of TTC from O-day to the day after (with no BD before or after cause of belief abstinence = sways blue).
    DD2 was a surprise baby, conceived also in one try on the night of O-day. She is a bit of a special case since DH didn't finish inside (didn't want to get preg and knew it was O-day) but the sperm still found it's way from my tummy to the egg. Also, we had done nothing for a long time because DD1 was only 8 months-old and taking up most of our time. I remember DH was quite annoyed with me and complaining about being forgotten.

    So should we try now for the 2-4 days release and more than one attempt from at least OPK+ ? I've read that a good many of you had boys while BD from AF to O-day but I wonder... ?

    Also, since I'm in France, I don't know if I can find prenatals that sways blue... We have fish oil of course, folic acid is a given... Should I take something else ? And what about DH ? One of the most recommended prenatals here for both women and men TTC is Oligobs Procrea F and Oligobs Procrea M.
    2014 ------- surprise 2016

    Dreaming of a

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    Hi Sora

    I don’t know about what prenatals are generally recommended for a blue sway but when I got both my boys I was taking seven seas trying for a baby tablets. They were great. You can get them via amazon.fr

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ohdeer View Post
    Hi Sora

    I don’t know about what prenatals are generally recommended for a blue sway but when I got both my boys I was taking seven seas trying for a baby tablets. They were great. You can get them via amazon.fr
    I'll look into it, thanks ! Any other tips about frequency or drinks ?
    2014 ------- surprise 2016

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