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  1. #311
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    A lot of people don't know this, Sora, but I have been through much of what you describe. I was a hideously ugly child, I was teased and victimized, often mistaken for a boy, I had to have very brutal plastic surgery to make my face normal, and even then everyone rejected me because the only thing worse than being ugly is being a person who had plastic surgery in many people's minds. My parents were never happy with anything I've ever done, still to this day tell me I'm a failure, etc. I married the first guy who would have me and I've had a lot of very bad problems in my marriage because my husband is very controlling. I have no real friends, my family doesn't care if I live or die, I have health problems, I often feel like a slave working to raise children who don't appreciate it, it sucks. I felt like I was not enough of a woman to have a daughter and many of us with all boys feel that way. I mention all this so you know you're not alone, that many of us really do understand your feelings. I really do, 1000% understand.

    But even with my desired gender these problems didn't just go away. They still exist and it was never a magic bullet towards fixing me. The thing that I eventually realized was that no one else's opinion matters, that most people exist to tear others down and when I took it to heart, it meant they would win. They never said those bad things because they even believed them, they said them so I would believe them, and so they could have power over me. They would even lie about things to keep that power over me. Once I realized that their criticisms were really lies to try to control me, I was able to embrace my own life with a sense of purpose for pleasing no one other than myself. The best revenge is living well because so many people go through life trying to destroy other people, even getting their "jollies" off of destroying others, and so by refusing to let them destroy you, you really win in the end. They stay their hateful selves, and you are like a butterfly coming out of the cocoon.
    Last edited by atomic sagebrush; May 2nd, 2020 at 01:24 PM.
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  3. #312
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    Quote Originally Posted by 4blue2pink View Post
    Dont appologise i must have missed the post where you said you grew up in the countryside and only saw the ones where you said you were having problems with your current neighbours and people reporting you etc.. If Paris is where you want to be then stay But if you feel a different area of the city would be better for you then maybe consider a move within Paris?

    You are right, despite their soft feminine exterior women can be truly evil, they will obsess and plot and scheme on a level i dont think many men are capable of. Men are so much more straightforward to deal with. I have also always preferred to be around men and honestly your description of yourself sounds so like me. I never wanted to hang out with girls or go shopping etc.. the girly side of life never interested me and in my case it was always blamed on me not having a mum. Even now as an adult i still feel more comfortable around men.

    I probably shouldnt say this and it is a massive generalisation... but from what you describe there seems to be a real bullying culture in France? especially amoung the women. How can it be acceptable for them to behave this way? Why is the bullying not stopped early by their parents or the schools? is it seen as ok for your daughters to bully others just as long as they act very feminine the rest of the time? (Im happy to be corrected here ive never lived in France)
    And for the people who told you you should die its horrifying that those sort of comments were allowed to be thrown around so freely and by adults too?!

    Your girls wont be like that, why? because they are being raised by you. Someone who understands the damage words can do and also understands the value of kindness in a very unkind world.

    You are right that children who lose parents learn big life lessons from it and in a way yes those lessons are actually a positive for them. I know that i was much more self-sufficient than my classmates and as you say also much more aware of what i said and the impacts of my behaviour, it made me grow up quick! But they lose out on so much too and if they are bitter towards the deceased it will be a hatred of what they put them through when they died which wouldnt translate to a hatred of that person if they were alive.

    I did read your post on adoption and i completely understand your feelings on not wanting to adopt a child yourself. Would you consider putting your baby girl up for adoption? If you are against it just ignore this suggestion!! I do want to be very clear that i am not suggesting this because i think your baby is better off being adopted, i just want to put it out there in case it seems like a positive option for you and dont give up on your HT dreams, it sounds as though it could be a real option for you? If it is then go for it, to hell with what others might think or say, this is your life and you live it your way!

    Are you able to speak with your husband about your feelings, especially the suicidal thoughts? Sending you love, i hope you feel able to keep posting here, we are all here to support you xx
    Thank you, sorry for abruptly disconnecting yesterday I was really feeling sick and had to stay in bed the whole day. That's another thing that is hard. I asked about it at the hospital and such but it does seem like I am not built to have "peaceful pregnancies" so no running around, working and partying til one week before birth for me. Which makes it all the harder to have to go through it times and times again to get a boy and doesn't help me feel glad to have a girl instead. I honestly think it would have helped to accept the gender a bit if only the pregnancy was going very well. Even afraid now of having to go through that a fourth time even if I get an HT boy for sure and it's the last. One nurse told me "It happens more to girls who were hit in childhood actually, we found that bearing a child themselves triggers the body's memories of the hits it had to take, even if the mother herself doesn't remember clearly, and it makes her physically sick and can worsen any pre-existing mental condition or start one. Sadly except talking about it, nothing can be done. Things like these need huge and long therapies and the pregnancy only lasts nine months.". But yeah I don't believe in therapies anymore.

    I don't know if we can say bullying culture ? Maybe ? But bullying is a huge problem here especially at school. But one thing for sure is there IS a HUGE culture of victim-shaming and I feel like it has worsened a lot this past decade instead of getting better. Most of the time, no matter the kind of bullying or violence you face, when you feel strong enough to talk about it you will ALWAYS get someone, family or authorities, telling you "are you sure you didn't do something to start it ?". It's especially true yes if the culprit is a woman. After all there's a reason pink swayers have it easier here. Funnily or not when I see pink moms here complaining that they were told a girl costs a lot and having all girls will ruin them, it sounds strange because I was never told that, in fact I was told how lucky I am because there will never be violence nor jailtime in my family and how my house must be the most peaceful and quiet place ever ! I am even, which disgusts me, praised for bringing more peace into this world and told that my girls will help build a better Earth and get rid of the violence put in it by men. And am encouraged to push them towards higher places like making them judges or politicians so that they can stop wars and famines. And I've witnessed all boys moms being told "Well, you better rein them in. I hope you can at least make doctors or policemen out of them because heavens know we have had enough criminals running free lately. I sincerely wish you good luck because I know how hard it will be for a lone woman to teach all that bunch some peace."

    Well disgressing but yeah, victim-shaming. Basically and there are a lot of existing reports and studies showing that but they are ignored to this day : many victims of violent families or school bullying or harassement at work are told they must have started it somehow. Even if the bullying by itself is judged negatively, there's always a "but" behind it. For children with violent parents, it will be "But maybe if you had been a quieter/cuter/smarter child, it wouldn't have happened or gone to such heights... after all, who hates a quiet/cute/smart child ?" of course, worse if the abuser is the mother. I was told so much, so so much "Oh you must not be a good daughter too, I mean a daughter usually is the pride and joy of a woman, her feminine ally in life... For your mother to reject you so much, you must have had some kind of failing there. Did you always support her and side with her especially against men ? Did you try and be more pretty so she would feel proud looking at you ? Did you try to spend some time with her, hear her out, offer to go to some SPA or watch some romance movie just the two of you ? I'm pretty sure if you did that, she will become the most amazing mom ever and all will be good.". Whenever I said that I couldn't (too young) or tried already, they would then shrug and be like "Oh too bad, she must have some kind of mental illness then or just PMS. A lot of women suffer from these after all, it's nature... My mom/sister/ex/bff/coworker was the same. Well, kid, idk it's too bad. But as a woman yourself, you must understand better than anyone how it is like, right ? I'm sure you yourself are not the kindest thing when you're depressed or have your periods. So just stick by her side cause she needs the support and well, we don't want her going worse and being a pain to other people now, do we ?".
    For a boy it's worse cause while they are told (as my friends reported) that they should be stronger or better too, they're also told instead of the "stick by your abuser" : "I hope this won't inspire you to become an abuser too ? You do know it's bad, right ? I hope I will never have someone comes out and complain about YOU being violent to them. Beware, I'll watch you. We can't help you with the abuse but DON'T YOU DARE become the same."
    It makes them feel ashamed of having negative feelings at all and I've had such a hard time comforting them, telling them that no, being angry or heartbroken about something is not them magically transforming into abusers/rapists/criminals. And no it doesn't mean they are not strong and not male enough.
    If it is at school, you have the good old excuse of not "making enough efforts to fit in". And it's like people have checklists of what a girl or boy should do or like or be like to "fit in". Adults and children alike. For girls it's usually to be perfect everywhere : not only pretty, but happy and smart and sociable. As for pastimes, it has to be everything girly under the sun, not necessarily all at once but at least a couple of things that will vary as girls grow older. Like it was fine for me to like pink and ponies, these were good points... until I was past ten, then it became not enough and I had to add a few more things. Except most of them then included doing your hair, dressing in fashion, stay slim (that's usually around then that most dieting start I noticed... and while adults are worried about us dieting to hard and fainting on them at school, they also low-key praise that as "taking care of your appearance like a true sane girl should"). I wasn't slim, and I didn't know a thing about hair or dressing since I had no female to show me. It was catastrophic until A MAN taught me. And then it went weirdly because how to say ? Since it was a man's advice, it was feminine but in a different flavor and people noticed it and they didn't know how to react. So I was not blamed anymore for not doing that but idk, they were warry because I didn't do it "the right way". There was something "off" about it though they were hard-pressed to tell what exactly. At least boys were more or less okay with it, maybe cause they could smell the "male POV" influencing my clothes.
    But yeah the school bullying I got it hard with adults looking the other way like "it's not my fault she can't find a way to fit in" and close circle going "That girl is only trouble ! Can't she even get having a circle of BFFs and flirting RIGHT ? It's, like, the easiest thing in the WORLD !". Until a male teacher and male principal eradicated it finally just before high school because they couldn't stand it. And they had to pressure female teachers into testifying, cause they were afraid of who knows what except for a young female one. All the students involved were expelled, 60% of which were girls. It led to me actually being harassed by the mothers of these students outside of school, who did their best to get me expelled too. And by the way, in school, they try to have us have some responsibilities so regularly students can handle papers (they bring them to teachers, principal and others). On these papers are the private informations of all students. So the bullying wasn't only at school but outside since they had my adress and phone number. I hear it still happens today which is a scandal. The police was called, if only because my parents and their neighboors complained about groups of teens, sometimes from other schools (hey, girls have friends everywhere) ringing the bell of our building at undue hours and asking the "little shit" to be delivered to them to teach her a lesson. And I was accused of ruining everyone's daily life by not being able to fit in.
    As for the police they couldn't do anything more than bring them back to their parents. But as I said, here there's a huge victim-shaming culture and bullies are often seen as the true victims, especially if young or female. Everything is blamed expect themselves : the victim triggering them by not fitting him, them having had probably difficult births or early childhood, health problems, maybe they watched too much movies or had someone be violent in front of them and they just innocently thought it was a good thing to do... damn that TV or unknown adult for showing them violence ! They are actually the one getting help, it's very rare actually to expel them like it was the case with me, because it is said "acting violently towards them will just make them more violent instead of teaching them that violence is bad"... so they are shown empathy and left alone to reflect and hopefully choose the right way next time. That foolish idea of "if they are treated with kindness, they will see it's so much better to be kind and stop bullying, they are still kids". As for the victims ? They are advised to leave, go somewhere where they will fit better.
    If your family too thinks you are to blame for not fitting in, they don't pull you out. They don't want to bother for a child that "doesn't bother to make an effort and be loved". So I was left where I was and being urged to stop "ruining everyone's lives and causing problems". I thank that male teacher and principal for choosing the opposite and kicking the bullies out cause when it came to mothers (fathers would rather hide in the sand, if there were STILL fathers around mind), I would be the one hanged publicly seriously.
    I didn't face too much harassment at work though it only came from women once again and again for the same stupid reasons, that damn checklist now updated to "adult women". Make-up this and make-up that, flirting, oh and there was the new one "having a lover" (faithfulness is so backward and overdone today mind you). Always these damn SPAs, sports but only feminine ones (too bad I was doing archery then), only books allowed are romance and fashion magazines and yeah, psychology you can because you have to perfect yourself mentally. Did have support from men again but yeah, I heard from other people who suffered from more trouble at work that it was once again very hard to be seen and believed as the victim. You were the one triggering your co-workers. And you were blamed from instigating fights in the workplace. Especially women, oh god, most people were like "can't you catfight OUTSIDE ? omg". And here you have things like with my mother, like if the culprit is a woman she's just "depressed or PMSing, you know how it is, you should understand as a woman yourself, plus she's having a hard time with her husband so if you could be so kind as not give her a hard time at work too... oh she's the one making things hard ? But please, understand, if both of you fight instead of working, we will loose money ! There has to be at least one reasonable person in there. Since she can't, it has to be you.".
    If you're lucky, you get moved to another building in the same company. If not, you're the one fired, cause you understand "we can't fire someone who is already having it so hard they became a bully, it will only pile more problems on their heads, it would be cruel".
    It didn't happen to me but it happened to friends of both gender so...

    Again that's my personal experience, some people didn't get that though I think that just means they checked enough on the list to be left alone. In fact if you check enough, you can really have a very quiet life all around. Can you be yourself fully though ? I don't know.
    There's also another thing, having backup matters a lot. There's a kinda mentality that "the loner is always wrong". Being alone in life means to many that "no one agrees/sides with you". It's deeply biased since many people are alone because they moved in a new town, or because death sadly took care of any family they had, or if they have parents left they are too sick to back them up...
    But yeah I do know of some people not fitting in but being left alone because they have a very loving family behind them. Loving and united families scare bullies (but they can smell it if your family disagree with you actually). It's a bit like elections ? Like the most votes you have etc...
    Bullies usually have a huge court (that they keep through promises and fear) so when the fight breaks out, most onlookers and people on the sidelines will first check who has the most support, they see the bully court and usually decide "oh more people on this side, that person must be not only right but great to hang out with... even if they are hitting a girl just now... ?". And off they go siding with them.
    I've actually had people calling me years later to apologize for their decision after witnessing the true nature of the person they sided with. They ALL told me a variant of "But you know, here you were, all alone, without even a parent so I thought... well if a family can't stand her, that girl must be a really bad person, maybe she has done horrible things in the past so the bully must be her and she deserves the lesson. I'm really sorry for that, if I had known it was because you were new/orphaned/having sickly relatives or friends, I would have acted much differently and even offered help."

    Hmm I did consider putting the girl up for adoption, even DD2, but husband doesn't agree. And I am uneasy because adoption is a mess in France and notoriously hard and there are more risks she will spend eighteen years of her life in orphanages than with a good family. A lot of potential adoptive parents prefer to actually adopt abroad than in our country because of it, which is really sad. And those in control don't want to reflect on that, instead complaining "ugh french don't like their own children, they're always flying away to get other countries' orphans." It has been a problem for decades here. Also I still feel uneasy about abandonning her just because of gender. To save her from hunger and poverty, okay, or if I were too young and/or alone in the whole world... I know I could trust many a pink swayer just here with her and would be okay with it. But sadly we just can't organize an adoption on the forum and be done. And DH is against it anyway.

    I cant speak much to my husband. He is where he wanted in life so he doesn't get what I'm going through. Sure he sees I am unhappy but he doesn't understand why. He is happy, I should be, or at least, I just have to change my goals. Sometimes I ask how he would feel if he was asked to "change his goals" because things seem against him doing his dream job or having a family or a roof and he goes "oh of course I would find another way". But it's an easy thing to say when you didn't have to fight for what you have and got it anyway.

    And I'm afraid to show too much. I feel like he's already unhappy with me not being feminine enough or happy enough or normal enough and if he tires of me and dumps me... well I don't need that so. At least he agrees to HT for now ?

    Btw thanks for my english and I'm sorry about your parents. It's not easy at all to live without them, whatever the reason for their absence.
    2014 ------- surprise 2016

    Dreaming of a

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  5. #313
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    Quote Originally Posted by atomic sagebrush View Post
    A lot of people don't know this, Sora, but I have been through much of what you describe. I was a hideously ugly child, I was teased and victimized, often mistaken for a boy, I had to have very brutal plastic surgery to make my face normal, and even then everyone rejected me because the only thing worse than being ugly is being a person who had plastic surgery in many people's minds. My parents were never happy with anything I've ever done, still to this day tell me I'm a failure, etc. I married the first guy who would have me and I've had a lot of very bad problems in my marriage because my husband is very controlling. I have no real friends, my family doesn't care if I live or die, I have health problems, I often feel like a slave working to raise children who don't appreciate it, it sucks. I felt like I was not enough of a woman to have a daughter and many of us with all boys feel that way. I mention all this so you know you're not alone, that many of us really do understand your feelings. I really do, 1000% understand.

    But even with my desired gender these problems didn't just go away. They still exist and it was never a magic bullet towards fixing me. The thing that I eventually realized was that no one else's opinion matters, that most people exist to tear others down and when I took it to heart, it meant they would win. They never said those bad things because they even believed them, they said them so I would believe them, and so they could have power over me. They would even lie about things to keep that power over me. Once I realized that their criticisms were really lies to try to control me, I was able to embrace my own life with a sense of purpose for pleasing no one other than myself. The best revenge is living well because so many people go through life trying to destroy other people, even getting their "jollies" off of destroying others, and so by refusing to let them destroy you, you really win in the end. They stay their hateful selves, and you are like a butterfly coming out of the cocoon.
    I'm sorry to hear that Atomic (and thanks for your answers). I get what you say even if it's the reverse for me : I feel like I'm not good enough, deserving enough to have a son. And if like studies show you have to be healthy, feel fertile and have strong personnality to have tons of them, then I feel like it just shows how much of a failure I am if even swaying can't move things in the right direction. Around me, there are women having boys while smoking and drinking and I feel so so worthless. It's not a peaceful life, having to feel less deserving than even someone who doesn't take care of themselves (or others), I wonder how low I will sink in the future, I can't stand it anymore. While I blame DH, I also blame myself. I feel like we are both failures at this point. I hate him for possibly dragging me down and still being lucky and happy in life since he has what he wanted. And I hate myself for not being able to overcome his ans my own failures. For not being good enough to get things going my way without needing outside help or hard work.

    I don't think my boy will make every wound disappear, it would be too easy. I already thought pregnancy and motherhood would help and discovered that it did not, in fact it may have worsened some past wounds. But I desperately need the peace, the completeness and the closure he can bring. Sure he can be sickly or he will grow into someone evil, I can't know, and this will open new wounds. But for now I can't know about it and I try to think everything will be alright and he will be alright. I try to resolve things in order and rn I need him in my belly and in my arms, I can't stay like this. It's already so hard and frightening with the Corona. The horizon has completely sunk into darkness with that thing, I can't plan anything (there was already so little to plan). I already had trouble feeling anything but pain about this baby and pregnancy and I hate that everyone IRL is like "just focus on that baby and what you will do with it". Hello people ? I don't even know if I will have to give birth to it alone. How can I plan the future months, years with her when I don't even know if there will be anything past the confinement ? Everyone is saying "nothing will be the same" but noone can tell what awaits. Between those who think it will just be harder and those who think our country is done for (and they're not wrong, something bad is brewing, something that ever way will be hard on simple people like me)... how can I plan really ? I don't even know if we will ever be free to leave our house, let alone our country ever again.

    People can't even get married and I should be able to plan things with that kid ? Same I'm looking for HT but with everything closed and planes not flying, I can't do more than think about it. I like to plan throughly so that darkness is not helping, it's driving me crazy. I'm afraid it will take years for things to get back to normal and what if in the meantimes troubles come up in countries that keep us for traveling, or laws are voted to ban HT everywhere ? And what if we lose our jobs and are ruined (most people will after that) and can't pay ? So much fears and no light to nurture at least a small hope. Meanwhile I am getting older... I try to calm down about that because I know a ton of women in Paris who had children late in life, past 35 and managed to have normal pregnancies and both genders easily and were even ready to go for more until their DHs put a stop to it. But HT is different so idk.

    I tried to never believe people, I mean it was so obviously cruel and harsh, it couldn't be all true, right ? I survived this by telling myself "they have to be wrong" and I escaped them happy and determined to show the whole world they were wrong. I enjoyed my freedom and I set out to realize my dreams. But now, after so many failures... I mean despite knowing that some of them really were due to circumstances out of my control, this string of failures... How can I explain it ? Bad luck can only go so far. I don't want to, it hurts, but I can't help but wonder if they were right in the end. And everyone always spoke about karma but I happened to learn about what these people have become two years ago and guess what, there's no karma, they all got what they wanted in life, even what they didn't want (and that includes sons) and they are very happy and lucky.

    And now I am stuck with a failed sway, a husband getting tired of me and a virus. It seems like every year I hit a new low and I think of when I went to Paris so full of hope, ready to jump into things and fight hard and prove myself... I have trouble telling where I went wrong and I feel so sad about it I can't really do or feel something else. Either I feel like I don't deserve anything or I feel like no matter how hard I try, I will never get it and it will always be given to others instead, preferably bullies. I can't stand that anymore, the fight for nothing, the criticism, the blame, the guilt, loosing the people who care and having those who don't gloat on their high horses. Plus natural or human-made crisis. I just can't, I'm one person and that's too much. I also feel like I'm done fighting and resisting. Some people don't work hard and get everything, others give up at the first break-up, the first lost job... I wonder why should the rules be so wildly different for me ? Why should I hang around longer when some call it quit at barely 20 ? Why should I fight and work so hard when others just put on the waterfalls once and get everything handed to them ?

    For now I can't do anything since I have to be alive to even try HT but I do have to plan for if that too fails. And sadly it looks to me like the only thing that will be left for me to plan and control is just ending that life because suicide is one of the only thing you don't need money, hard work, health or family to pull off. There can be earthquakes and tsunami and economical crisis and you can still end your life. I don't want to die like this but I don't want the life I'm having now either. I'd rather think it's a very very sad world when the only thing anyone can do easily is offing themselves. It shouldn't be that way. It doesn't make sense it is. Maybe it's my fault for not having other dreams ? Sometimes I wonder if having big dreams like pulling it off in Hollywood or going to space would have worked better since the normal modest ones fail so terribly.
    2014 ------- surprise 2016

    Dreaming of a

  6. #314
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    Hey Sora,

    There's a lot in these last exchanges and I am really sorry you are feeling down. Atomic, 4blue and LMSM have all been spot on in their observations imo so I have really been wondering what to add, if anything I have thought and thought about it because your predicament is very moving and I wish I could find words that would reach you.

    I do not believe your DH has everything he ever wished for - unless he wished to have a depressed wife in which case he is rather odd. I do think you should confide in him as much as you can as it is his role to support and help you, his wife and the mother of his children.

    I wish I had some tips about a therapist or organisation that could help, I have never been confronted with one here in Paris thought and I do feel, like you, that good specialists are hard to come by, and yes, there is a definite lean into medicating in our country. At least one friend of mine saw a therapist who did her good though and I can always find out the name and PM you if you like.

    Which city did you grow up in then? It sounds dreadful. And which part of Paris do you guys live in? We are in the southern suburbs near Palaiseau. It is quite ok, people leave you alone. I do agree that your environment sounds toxic and you must look into changing it. Whoever these rubbish people are who put you down all the time/brag about lovers at work/call you dumb because you didn't secure some random job - these people have to go. Leave your life. If you can not actually get rid of them being in your life, atm you have to get rid of their meaning in your life. You have to fill your life with other people who are good for you. If there are no suitable people up for grabs, so to speak, you have to surround yourself by good podcasts, good literature, good music. I am not talking about the sort of rubbish 'fifty quick facts about modern psychology for dummies to sound impressive at the canteen table' or whatever rubbish those girls who were reading to 'better themselves' as you said would read, but real books, written by people who have suffered as you have suffered, and overcame their challenges. We are in a way a sum total of the people we spend our days with and the thoughts they would put in our heads. You can not be the sum total of these ridiculous scarecrows.

    We do live in an odd society, warped as if we had all fallen through the looking glass. The things you have gone through are indeed terrible. The girls who tormented you gained nothing by the way, it is only people who are deeply disturbed themselves who would act this way. Anyhow, we do not care about them at this time, we care about you.

    You have been told many lies, many falsehoods. You have been told you are ugly. You have been told you are worthless. You have been told you are undeserving. This is all a lie. The truth is this, it is that you are beautiful, worthy and deserving. This is the truth because while you are in the midst of your grief, you speak of ending it all, which is dreadful, bit you do not speak of taking revenge on other people, which is what wicked people do or at least want to do.

    You are important and you are valuable in this world. You are in great pain, and so you seek this escape plan. I am very sorry for you, however the absolute truth is that it would be very, very, very bad if you were to see it through. The world would lose something of great value, yourself. What is almost worse is this; you are as you see yourself now, but at the same time you have enormous potential. You are learned, you are clever, you have suffered a lot, you still suffer, you remain uncorrupted. Such a person has enormous potential, you could, in short, become much more than what you already are. And this you know, else you would not have aspired to leave the circumstances that made you suffer in that little terrible town you were brought up in. You left because you knew you could do more. If you were to end your life, you would end with it also all the possible venues of what you might yet become, for the good.

    One of the things that our distorted society is warped about is about what our purpose is. There is even that phrase in French, 'en profiter'. I believe that, while life is indeed full of suffering, as we can see, and the world is a sad place, as you mentioned, someone such as yourself could have a life that is full of meaning which would ultimately bring you happiness. Real happiness is found in purpise, in seeing at the end of the journey not that 'i have gotten this and that out of life' but 'here are the lives I have touched, here are the things I have bettered and so the world is a better place for me having been in it'.

    We struggle every day in this fight between the truth and the lie, light and darkness. I will not agree with you saying that you giving up or leaving will have little or no impact, sorry. This is false. It will have tremendous, terrible impact. As every day and every decision do in fact, but this would be the ultimate one. Every day and every decision that you take that furthers your vision of what you could become for the best is a victory for all of mankind, for the entire human race, for all the generations that have struggled and tried and fought it out. And every occasion of letting go is defeat and darkness. But endng your life would be the ultimate spiral down, it would mean that everyone who tormented and mocked you won - or rather, the darkness which is in them won, which is terrible for them too by the way because in no way is such a person happy or fulfilled. And instead of light and the higher potential and everything you could have brought forth, there will be a hole in the world forever. It is beyond the scope of our imagination to speculate how devasatting the consequences of this action would be.

    I also beg you to look after your nutrition. This matters really really really a lot. I had gd as you know, found this site, got started on the HE diet and took a multivitamin and changed my eating habits consciously for the first time ever. It had a tremendous impact on stabilizing my mood and emotions. I have been on a quest ever since of figuring out what my optimal way of eating is and what is best for the kids' diets. DH and other important people in my life all noticed a difference and the time and energy it freed up for me to do more valuable things, you can't imagine. And this came first from suffering with GD (who knew) and more importantly because Atomic, who had suffered before, instead of being all bitter and deciding, as she had every right to, that she needn't spend her time and energy on helping other women, because why should she, she suffered and so should they - no, she goes around putting her time and energy into keeping this running and helping all of us, and it is helping tremendously in unexpected ways that she could not have imagined. You see, that's one example of potential. But back to nutrition - the whole experience did make me realise that it is very important we eat well and you will not heal, my dear, if you don't try and eat properly. That's very down-to-earth but there you have it.

    We will all be dust soon enough you know, there is no need to hurry. Have you ever spoken to someone who was over ninety say? The really old people I have spoken to seem to agree that it goes by rather quicker than we think. So please don't give up before the time is up. And please look after yourself.
    Happily married to DH
    Darling July 2017
    bundle expected April 2019! Confirmed Boy !!! Thank you Atomic and Gender Dreaming, thank you!!
    Here's to our happy bunch !!!
    again for May 2021 following another blue sway. Confirmed Boy! Thank you for another succesful sway GD!!
    again in 2024, bundle expected September '24. Seriously debating going team Green this time

    To those who have everything, more will be given.

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  8. #315
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChezIBY View Post
    Hey Sora,

    There's a lot in these last exchanges and I am really sorry you are feeling down. Atomic, 4blue and LMSM have all been spot on in their observations imo so I have really been wondering what to add, if anything I have thought and thought about it because your predicament is very moving and I wish I could find words that would reach you.

    I do not believe your DH has everything he ever wished for - unless he wished to have a depressed wife in which case he is rather odd. I do think you should confide in him as much as you can as it is his role to support and help you, his wife and the mother of his children.
    Yes, I don't think DH is happy with me. Back when we met I was barely free from my parents and even so, not 100% and still not quite free from that town. He thought he was getting a hopeful, happy girl who had lost a ton of weight as a result of not fearing to even take a breath, who had fighting spirit because she wanted to prove everyone that she was a worthy human being and smiled a lot more... and I guess seemed normal enough to get a life, a job, and have PP children maybe. But not even a year into our relationship the effects of the 2008 crisis happened. I lost the place I was renting, sold to save the owner from financial troubles due to the crisis so I was basically kicked out. No roof meant no more studies and no more job in Paris, I had to go back to that town. My parents celebrated my failure with "I told you so, you're unable to accomplish something worthy" as did everyone there, so happy to see me fail to escape them. And the harassment started anew. Oh and did I mention that DH is from that same town and so is his whole family ? Well what they saw was their son replacing a very pretty, rich, medicine student girl (unfaithful but who cares when you are beautiful and smart ?) with an ugly girl who had just lost her opportunity to hit in life and had a lot of trouble finding a job and a place to rent to even make ends meets. I was in the streets for a year, couch surfing here and there and depending on the charity of others. That's why they hated me and tried so hard to pressure their son into leaving me. They still think like that, they have never apologized nor tried to meet their grandchildren even once. Not a card, not a phone call.

    I don't care but DH suffers from it and finds consolation in everything else going fine for him. He says he doesn't blame me but let's be serious here. I'm the only thing wrong in his life. I'm an easy thing to change. He's younger than me, attractive enough, with a solid job he loves and a roof. Why do you think some women from his work or living near us are so harsh towards me ? Why do they try their hardest to paint me as unfeminine, a bad wife AND mother ?

    He may not want to bother with a divorce now, but for how long ? While what I need to get better is so hard to find, will take years to rebuild, he just has to dump me and it will only take him a few short months to replace me with a beautiful, smart, successful girl with a loving family, whom his parents might like more and who knows if he one day decides he wants that, able to bear a son ?

    Do you really think he wants to bother with understanding and support ? He already didn't when his snoring took a toll on my health a few years ago, he didn't when his coworkers and neighboors attacked me, instead calling me paranoid and we know how well that ended... He's still not sorry for that, it's not his fault he's got health troubles and people around him acted their own bad way, period ! Oh yes he's "disappointed". But he doesn't understand why that would destroy me so. He doesn't understand like many DH about the need for having children of both genders, he's okay with girls. I'm already lucky he isn't against HT though he's not entirely comfortable with it either.

    I do think if he really loved me and thought I was worth it, he would have supported me like you said and reacted violently to anyone even badmouthing me. He didn't. He thinks it's enough to assure me he doesn't think the same. He thinks it's enough to say it's not his fault. But his health problem IS his fault, I didn't cause it, nor am I the one keeping him from having it treated. And the way his circle acts is HIS responsibility too. As I would feel responsible for anyone in my circle demeaning or assaulting him or the children. I wouldn't go and shrug like "omg I didn't ask them to do that, I'm disappointed". There would have been hell to pay. These people would have gotten screamed at and maybe hit so hard they would have regretted being born at all.

    For food, don't forget, I did HE like you. But it didn't change anything for me. While I did feel a positive difference on my health (though my body couldn't deal weight-wise) it didn't work to bring me a son and I take it as proof that I must be really broken inside, so much so that a diet can't save anything. I don't want to see food ever again, it has just caused me suffering, no matter what, how or when I eat. It's no good when I skip meals, am not careful, but it's not good either when I have. Meanwhile, the women around me who criticizes me so much go with alcohol, smoking (and not only cigarettes), barely sleep, some are vegans but some eat... whatever, meat, carbs, sugar, Burger Kings, well anything that would make any doctor or nutritionnist cry rivers of blood. And they are BEAUTIFUL ! Thin, with perfect soft skin, long hair, never put on weight even while pregnant, can dress in teenagers' sizes, do all kind of sports if they so want, work hard, still party one week before or after giving birth... And of course they have PP ! Or all boys ! I have... had... to cross their paths everyday ! God, this peculiar year especially, while I was hopeful for some who wanted a boy or were onto their second child after a girl, there were some where I was thinking "Omg with the diet they have and the life they lead... and even fertility troubles here and there, Dh or them, plus age, plus not taking care of themselves enough, there's NO WAY they will pop a boy, just no way ! They are too broken inside/outside to be approved as "good for male heirs" by Nature.". But guess what they had ? Without changing a thing ?

    And I want to scream WHY NOT ME ? I changed things, I tried so hard ! Why am I the only one failing and failing and failing ? Didn't I loose enough, fail enough ? How long is it going to carry on ? And I'm even afraid of HT, after so much failures, I can see very well my money going into paying another failure. I hope science can force its way to get my body to have a son, if I need to mutilate it so it would work, I would. I will have to go through so much even though I am able to conceive naturally... I never thought I would have to go through IVF, it frightens me. Even moreso because I can't even go through it at home, in a place that speaks my language with faces I knew. I will have to go some place I don't know at all, with strangers, to ruin myself financially and health-wise, while others pop sons in the comfort of their homes, on a couch, chain-smoking... I think it tells a lot of the kind of deep failure I am if I can't even do what these women are able to.

    You say people would have won if I die but they HAVE already won. Everything they promised has happened. I couldn't get a roof by myself, find a job, I lost the people who supported me, through death, through life circumstances, through my failures. I lost any respect DH may have had for me and I'm the only dark spot in his life, so much so he's not eager to marry nor to worry about my physical or mental health when he's the one holding some of the cards... And after all, don't they say "when you fail too much at something, it's that it's not meant to be so you should give up and start anew". There are so much people going around, telling swayers to give up because they're not "meant" to have their DGs... So taking that into account, when you fail at life, what would be the logical answer ? And no, it won't leave a hole anywhere. I would have needed to accomplish something for that. DH will find better, the girls will be too young to remember me and I can't bring them anything good, the family doesn't care and for my friends it's the same, they have their families, other friends, their lives are going well, one dead friend won't even leave a dent. It won't even be an enigma to ponder over, they know first-hand how hard I failed. They're just good enough people not to blame me for it.
    I'll leave behind either relieved and happy people or sad people who will have enough love and success to go through it anyway. For the latters I will just become a distant memory after two years that only alcohol can bring back and for the firsts... well, certainly one of their best successes : "how I rid the world of a monster". Will make a nice story to tell to their children.

    I know it's still too dark a thought. What I need rn is not a therapist or organization to feed me sweet lies about me mattering or something good that might happen (when ? at 100 years-old ? I've been waiting for 20 years already for that good karma to happen, I'm aging, I could very well get cancer next year, I can't spend my life waiting for an hypothetical dreamy "better after")... I need someone who may have a way to help me get a son, or know of some information I may have missed on. I need a group who would help me escape that country and ask another for help because it's going to be so very hard... I'm starting to ask around already but there's such a taboo on it, it's so very hard. Maybe some practicians do know something but it's not like in UK or Australia where it seems some of them are actively helping out because they also don't approve of GS being forbidden. Here they're already against NIPT, so you can imagine how they feel about GS. They are already having sweet trouble with IVF even after so long.

    I mean I know it's natural to say positive things and give advice to get better but considering my past, it's positive things and advice I have already received before, regarding other bad times, other traumas. After a while, the "it will get better", "you have so much to live for", "you are worth it" don't work anymore. It's no one's fault really but well-meaning people are literally fighting against fate here... and a bunch of other people constantly out to break anything they might heal. I feel so bad about it too. Guilty for the things that came from me or my body, bad for unfair life destroying all their hard work otherwise. I'm so ashamed I can't face them anymore, especially not now, not after that new failure. And I can't look forward to anything, I just can't. Even the most simple project looks like it will crash now. After having dared to hope this past year and it going so wrong, I'm frozen, stuck. I can barely think logically. Sometimes I feel like I won't be able to go through the next day without making some world-ending mistake. I'm even afraid to just think of the future because it feels like something will hear me and make sure it's a bad future waiting ahead. It doesn't make sense but I can't stop it. I feel very much threatened by... something that I can't fight against or at least not alone. It's the most scary thing I've ever experienced. On the other hand I don't want meds because I know them, I know their effects and I can't be weakened, not now, not while there's danger lurking and no one to protect me from it.

    Plus I've read the recent studies about how these impact your fertility and if I want to have a son at all, I can't afford to lower my chances so much. Maybe it's even the meds I've taken before, or maybe even the physical and mental traumas that have turned me into such a broken body only able to pop daughters for "survival". But I can't think like that or I will hate myself so much more.

    Sorry I didn't want to make it long and again my thoughts are getting messy. I hate that too. Having no control, being messy. And even that didn't help me be more blue.
    2014 ------- surprise 2016

    Dreaming of a

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  10. #316
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    Please don't ever, ever think that these things mean your fertility will be lower and you can't have a son. I have had some of my sons at times when I was going through terrible things and so I know it can still happen for you.
    !!! Questions?? Check out the NEW and improved Complete Index !!!

    If you appreciate my help with your sway plan, please consider a donation:

    https://www.paypal.com/donate?hosted_button_id=C92U9TVWTRTDQ

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