Sora TTC a Boy Sway Attempt

[Sora]

How are you doing Sora? <3

Not well. The pregnancy is not going well so I can kiss goodbye to any hope it may have made me feel better about pregnancy and motherhood. It's just a nightmare like the other two and for nothing in the end. I blame myself so much for believing in nature, choosing a bad DH, not going HT immediately.

[ChezIBY]

Okey. Are you managing to eat well (more or less?) Taking a prenatal?

[atomic sagebrush]

Please let us know how we can help!

[Sora]

Okey. Are you managing to eat well (more or less?) Taking a prenatal?

No, can't stomach much and at this point I don't care for supps or else since it couldn't improve useless me. I just want to stay confined til the end of my life.

[4blue2pink]

ive been thinking of you Sora, im sorry to hear that your pregnancy isnt going well, are you still feeling very sick?
A big part of me also wishes i had gone HT for our first and never rolled the dice on gender, i know i would have been so much happier.
Would HT be an option for you in the future? How has your husband reacted?
Sending love

[Sora]

ive been thinking of you Sora, im sorry to hear that your pregnancy isnt going well, are you still feeling very sick?
A big part of me also wishes i had gone HT for our first and never rolled the dice on gender, i know i would have been so much happier.
Would HT be an option for you in the future? How has your husband reacted?
Sending love

I think HT might be the only reasonable option and DH agrees... provided that horrible virus go away and borders reopen and affordable flights still exist. I don't know for other countries but here, green lobbies are pressuring like mad for affordable flights to be sunk forever and that travelling abroad should only be reserved to the rich, citing that since rich people are fewer in numbers, it will save the planet more than letting lowly working classes go to other countries. I can't tell you how much of a pressure it has been in Europe for every woman wanting to go HT or even simply wishing to go to a hospital abroad because they need a treatment that their own countries don't have or have banned.

Already with this pregnancy (which I hoped so much to be a boy), I joked with husband that it would be nice to have a 4th, if only to just know what it is like not to have to worry about gender. We could have even gone team green, it would have been so nice without the pressure. But he was very afraid of having so many children. And I shared some of his worries as more than 2-3 mean so much : holidays becoming very unaffordable and difficult to organize, needing a very big car if not TWO and in France a car is something less and less people can afford, how to manage with a small flat since we live in Paris we won't be able to rent bigger or buy a house if we still want to stay close to DH's job...

So I regret heavily not thinking more about possible failure... but it seemed such a low risk for me, we had changed so much in our habits. Plus I didn't want to scare myself with the idea, I wanted to be in control so that I would not sway pink. But I did somehow. I failed and it's eating at me not knowing where I did go so wrong. Now I've condemned everyone to a miserable life. It goes either way because I can feel I will never be over that boy so I can't say "let's stop and choose a comfortable life over having a son". It will spell death to me. I feel so trapped. On one hand if I succeed a whole family will suffer from not living with much, on the other hand if I fail a whole family will have to live on without a mother... which honestly seems the lesser of two evils. I don't know and I'm sure pink swayers will tell me "oh noooo don't miss out on your girly activities and seeing your daughters in a wedding dress". But well, for that they would have to want to marry in the first place. If they are anything like their dad, they won't want to hear a word about it...

And you don't understand because you don't know me IRL. But I am NOT a woman another woman wants to be seen with ! There's a reason I feel more happy and at ease around men. Men are okay with me being in their circle, being seen in my company, they think I'm okay as a friend, a confidant, a mother, less as a potential lover because even they think I'm not pretty or girly enough. But women only ever had bad things to say about me, they are ashamed to be seen with me, to invite me in their house, they find me too boyish, too weird, too ugly, too blunt, too much of a rival because men seem so relaxed about me (if only they knew they do agree with them on the ugly/unfeminine part, they would be less worried).

Do you really think my daughters, who turned out prettier than me, would want ME showing up alongside them on their wedding pics ? Especially if their MIL is as beautiful as a model and as charismatic as a Hollywood star, with the confidence and smarts of a CEO ? You think they will want their friends and in-laws to see for themselves what gave birth to them ? Trust me, they won't. Marriage is such a big important event that is already stressfull... they won't want to deal with shame because of their old mama.
Even if THEY didn't care, I know how these things go. They will have female in-laws who WON'T want to be seen in the same room as me and who won't owe me any respect in turn since I'm not their mother. Can you imagine my poor girls having to give up inviting me at family reunions because their female in-laws find me repulsive ? If they choose to stick by my side, they will have to cut ties with their in-laws, adding pressure to their relationship with their husband/wife and maybe never knowing the happiness of hanging out with you SIL or MIL, sharing fun times, especially once children are born.
It's sad to say but where a man can actually raise his voice and impose a female relative "MY WIFE OR NOTHING, MY MOTHER OR NOTHING, MY DAUGHTER OR NOTHING", a woman can't... often won't even want to bother... or if she has guts, she will but she will loose so much in the process...

DH has no sister but his mother, like so many other women, did find me too ugly and stupid and not good enough for him. She would always pressure him to go back to his ex and once roughly took me aside and asked when I will release her son from my clutches. He happened to walk in at that moment and hear that so he gave her an ultimatum... which didn't work because he wasn't the favorite son anyway. He had to cut ties and he's still suffering to this day. His mom was a pink swayer btw, he thought having a DIL would ease her pain over never having had a little girl and he's so sad that wasn't the case. And it all comes down to me not being "pink" enough. She doesn't even want to meet her grandaughters so my girls are already deprived of grandmas because of me.

And that's not the only time these things have happened. I have lost many a friend, especially female (and/or my female friends have lost many a female relative/friend) because most women can't stand me for the reasons I spelled up there. I did witness the shame and pain brought to these people by having their female loved ones suddenly turn mad witches frothing at the mouth and yelling "she's so ugly/boring/stupid/unfeminine, get her far away from me or I will cut ties with you". The most reasonable ones at least offered "fine, idk what you see in her but you can keep her... IF you never speak her name around me EVER !". I can't go through with hearing again and again the same apologies "I'm sorry, I can't stay friend with you, I like you but my family/friends are important too", "I'm sorry, I can't invite you because my relatives will be there and my mom/sister/bff can't stand you", "I'm so sorry they insulted you, don't want to get to know you more because I'm sure they would see how amazing you are... but I can't force them and I'm so ashamed, so sorry, I swear to you I don't know what is WRONG with them, they never acted that way with my other friends/lovers...". To this day I still don't know exactly what is wrong, just that the thing that comes up most often is that I'm ugly/unfeminine/stupid as in I have "boyish interests" and don't know the first thing about girly things. I searched so much, tried to be someone I was not, but the time you can keep up the charade of being 100% pink is so short... when the mask breaks, women always react with disgust at seeing that no, I am boyish, I am not quite "like them".
It happens less with male acquaintance, don't know why, maybe simply because men are raised with the idea that they have to be warriors, leaders, so they feel more at ease fighting for and imposing their views ?

So I can't help but think I would have been a better mother to sons on so many levels, even those that are out of my control. I can't do anything right with girls, I'm only bringing problems and shame and hurt. Whatever I do, a feminine family was the worst outcome for me, I can't be part of one so if it has to be that way it's better if I leave them. If I have only daughters, the best thing I can do for them is disappear.

And btw, I did grow up without a mother. But she's still alive and she's a monster. I would rather have a dead one. There's a hole in both cases but in one situation, that hole is so much worse because you know she could be there for you but she doesn't want to, doesn't love you. She doesn't care about seeing you married or happy or safe. A dead mother, you miss her, but you can still hope she's there watching over you and sending her love.

I'm sorry all this is messed up. There are some wounds that are too deep to close. I just want to hold my son and be done with pregnancies and giving birth because this has been such an awful experience for me up til now.

[ChezIBY]

Sora, dear,

There's really a lot in your messages and I have much i would like to say to you but here are my very first thoughts on a first reading:

-- you say you never get along with women. We are all women here though. We all like you. We all want you to be happy. We are all rooting for you. --> maybe the women who were around you before who didn't get along with you were the wrong ones, is all. You said you felt pressured to pretend to be someone you aren't (no wonder, given everything you've been through) so maybe the women who crept into your life weren't the ones who would have been attracted to the 'real' you. It can be argued that, even though we all only meet virtually here, we are very honest and open given the subject matters we deal with. And .. you see. A lot of women here like you and understand you, the real you they see. So .. maybe you are not a pariah for all women. (And I get the vibe you are speaking of, I do. I'm the youngest of three girls and my Mom somehow selected me as the 'quiet unfeminine one' and repeated this to me through all those years. Talk about projecting ... *Facepalm*)
-- good riddance for your girls' grandmas!!! They are much better off without such contact!! Don't you worry about them being 'deprived'!!!
-- you did not 'fail' in anything. The most 'perfect' sway is susceptible to statistics. You can do everything perfectly and still get a sway opposite. That's hard. It's life. Life is hard, life is full of suffering, FULL of it. The worst is when we feel it is unfair, as in someone being gravely ill is sad but it's out of our control, while something like this here stings and hurts a ton because you feel like 'you don't deserve this, you worked so hard for something else etc'.

-- you say that one of the worst things (worse than having no mother) ever is having a mom who abandoned you. Then just a while later you say that it would be best you abandon your girls. Just pointing it out. I know you are very very hurt. It is very likely however that you are the best person in the world in your girls' eyes and any scenario of you disappearing from their lives, if they could imagine this, would be far from 'the best thing'.

-- you have been hurt. A lot. This is terrible. It is imperative for the well-being of four, soon to be five, people, that you get better asap. This is non-negotiable. You feel that you have been hurt unfairly (but you have somewhat convinced yourself that you are flawed and deserve this or you are destined to suffer more than the next person). (please understand this is my attempt to state things, btw, this is no critique!! I think what you are going through is truly terrible and in some ways more so than you may realize). I do not think (sorry) that having a son (even if suddenly it were discovered that the tech was wrong, that you are having a boy now, and he were delivered to you in several months) would fix everything. I think you think you will 'prove and redeem yourself and deserve happiness' by managing to have a son.

This is untrue in both that you already deserve happiness and also in that having a son fixes nothing. It could in fact open more doors of suffering. Who's to say he would be as you imagine. Or maybe you will have twenty marvelous years all till he tells you he wants you out of his life now as he is choosing between you and his new SO and he chooses her over you (a scenario you have described as having often happened to you) how would you feel then?

In short I feel:
1 -- it is urgent to revise and commit to a plan that will enable you to get better for all your sakes. 'better' is described as a scenario where you are mostly happy day to day, find people who appreciate you and feel life is worthwhile for you.
2 -- plan your HT but only with the understanding that without point 1 it won't help
3 -- don't watch the news (especially our French TV). It will only drive you crazy especially atm. That's rubbish, we will still be able to travel. Don't worry. And if there is a shift indeed in that sense what is the point of worrying yourself over it? These are things out of our control.
4 -- fix manageable short term goals on your road to recovery. One of them is to look after yourself for this pregnancy and impending birth. Even if you don't care about it much, if you are to ever have another kid you should look after yourself.

Je t'embrasse bien fort

[rahaye_raha]

Im so sorry your baby didn’t turn out to be a boy. I have a friend who is coming from iran and there IVF costs around 2000 euro for Iranians. I dont know if its the same price for foreigners or not. Let me know if you needed any more information.

[atomic sagebrush]

It's not a failure, it's just that we can't get to 100% with swaying. If we could, the whole human race would have died out a long time ago. Some of this has to come down to luck. It's not what you did or didn't do, it was just how the dice rolled.

We all have these fears of what life will be like when our kids are older, and most of us as our kids have aged, have been pleasantly surprised about how our relationships with our children actually are when compared to the fears. It is my hope that as your daughters get older the fears you have will evaporate. It is hard when kids are small to see what our relationship will look like when they are older children, teenagers, adults - but it is always different than our worst fears would have us believe. Right now it seems like you know the future, but I hope that the future has many wonderful surprises for you.

[Sora]

I get what you say Chez and I'm sorry if I couldn't convey some things clearly enough since everything is a mess.

When I was talking about leaving my girl, I mean as in dying of course, no point of leaving them just to live somewhere else, and live for what ? Better I disappear from their lives in the real way, the way that won't lead them to believe I hate them or don't care at all, than stay around and just ghosting them. I can write, I can leave them tons of messages, of videos assuring it's not their fault, that they are great and loved and can become what I could never achieve, even more so because I won't be there to fail things for them and they won't have to care for me.

I see why you would say a son won't fix anything, but you got your son so you don't know. Not criticizing either, just stating, because I know how it is when you were in trouble but the situation solved itself quickly enough. You forget as quickly how terrible it was, it's part of the human brain, and things appears easier and not so terrible at all and you get the false feeling you could have done as well if you failed... But it's just that, a false feeling, you didn't get the worst outcome, you're relieved, you will never know (hopefully) what that kind of failure is like. Also when it resolves quickly, you don't have years of torture behind you so you'll never imagine how terrible it can get... and trust me, this time is even worse than the last, it's like being flayed alive on a daily basis.

I think anyway, if you read people who got their DG after four or five or more tries, you'll see the same words come back over and over : how relieved and alive they feel, how at peace they feel. No one can just improvise that on the spot, it shows how real and special the happiness brought by that child is. It's easy for the ones who never knew that or got over it fast to say "oh I'm sure nothing will change if you get your DG" and again, it's innocence talking. But I can assure you cause I can feel it, yes, yes it will. You may be biased too because you may think (and sadly that's what the anti-sways/HT argue too) that I'm waiting for some sort of check-list with an Y. Like them you tell me "what if he doesn't turn out like you hoped".

The only thoughts I have about how my children will turn out, present or future, are fears of them turning evil, against me but also against others. I'm sure everyone has had them, praying hard to get kind and honest children. My past just leads me to fearing bad outcomes more because I've seen how normally raised children can end up.
Otherwise, I have no "expectations" regarding them. Not even of a great bond that transcend time and space. I will be happy enough with a little love and gratitude and seeing them happy. But from past experiences and not only my own, I think I have higher chances of that with a son rather than a daughter because his expectations for me will be different from that of my daughters and actually in my reach.

So many boys I've seen with difficult mothers, depressed, drugged, jobless... So many of them still forgiving, still caring, still finding excuses to explain their behavior. The only one still standing at my mother's side ? My brother. DH ? Witnessed his mother become an alcoholic, regret not having a girl, cheat on his father twice before kicking him out... and still dearly loved her until the day he walked in on her pressuring me to leave him.
That and so many other events, that taught me... You don't have to be pretty, healthy, successful or smart to win a son's love. You just have to be there and love him, you can even fail in that and it will still take A LOT for him to leave you. A lot like becoming too abusive, or hurting another loved one in front of him.
I'm not into alcohol or drugs, I'm not abusive, I have more than enough daughters, I have no expectations on what a son should be or like to do, heck he can sew dresses and go get his nails painted if he wants to ! I won't be of much help for that but I won't mind and I won't go "oh noooooooes RIP my dreams of a little rough boy". I won't foolishly turn against the girl he loves, even if I happen not to like her (but there are more chances it will be the other way around tbh and I'd like to see her explain, between two abuses, how she is the victim) or belittle his hobbies and dreams.
Like you said, if it still fails, this time around the blame won't be just on me because it will be his decision too despite me doing better than some. If he ignores me because a woman told him to, then it will certainly not be my failure but hers, who can't even date someone without cutting them from their mother. And once again, the abuse will have come from a woman who deemed me not worthy of her presence.
But with girls, I start already on loosing grounds. What will I have to answer when they will accuse me of not being woman enough to guide them ? Give them what they needed ? I've seen so many daughters ditch their moms for not being perfect, for the crime of saying yellow suited them better and other ridiculous things. Some still ranting, even a month after burrying their old mothers "she failed to do this and this and that, and she wasn't enough this and this and that, I miss her but she sure wasn't the kind of mother she should have been". Death should usually make you aware of what you have lost but nah, it was still about what they didn't/couldn't do and not about what they did. If better women than me can't earn their daughters' love and gratitude in a lifetime, what chances do I have ? And I just can't rely on my experience as a daughter because I was no one's daughter. I just know what you shouldn't ever do to a girl, and I have an idea of what I would have wanted... except it is biased because I wasn't in a normal situation. My "I just want to have a kind, supportive and loving mother" may just come from not having one at all. What does a normal daughter wants ? Because it sure isn't just "a kind, supportive, loving mother" or there wouldn't be entire books about the complicated mother/daughter relationship.

I don't want to be unfairly thrust into a game I have no hopes to win, which I don't know the rules of. If I miraculously win, I will be relieved to have survived at all but at what cost ? I just want to play a game I know well, where I have a fair chance of winning or at least, enjoying some of it. You can still loose in a game you know well but it's not as terrible as being trapped in something with everything stacked against you.

Well I feel this is as messy as the other message so if you don't understand a word, don't worry about it. Also you say things are okay here but that has always been the magic of the Internet. People have no choice but to rely on very little to accept someone. But you know, just seeing most of you through pictures posted here and/or knowing a little about your lives, I can tell you're not at risk of being despised by girls, daughters or other relatives/friends. You're all so beautiful and successful in different ways. I'm pretty sure if we met IRL, you would all be disgusted and change sides on the road to not have to walk past me. And you sure don't have to worry about being loved by sons or daughters.

Sorry I have to get off here though, DD2 is sick.