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  1. #1
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    Male career sways??

    I have a question. My SO works is in the marine corps and is in artillery. My SO and I currently have no children. Literally every single couple has nothing but daughters. Out of 300 people, only one man has a son, but we believe the baby was conceived before he worked in artillery. The daughter ratio is so high, in fact, his boss just had his fourth daughter!! Artillery exposes them to toxic chemicals and on top of that, they have to run minimum 15 miles a week and a lot of marines drink a lot. Does artillery cause low sperm count perhaps?

    My question is, if the maternal dominance theory and nutrition is true, why do none of these women have sons? Surely, at least one of these women have higher testosterone or a boy mom personality or eat a boy mom diet? It just blows me away that men have that much of an influence on the gender.

    Does the military sway pink? My cousin is an airforce pilot and all of his coworkers have mostly girls as well. Everyone was shocked when his first born was a boy (he was conceived while in the airforce). They are now expecting a female and he comes from a family of nothing but boys and I believe he was higher testosterone. How do some men with jobs that sway pink still end up with boys?

    Thanks, Atomic!

  2. #2
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    Yes, we have studies that show men in some careers have way more daughters than they have a "right" to.

    While I don't think there's a study on this particularly yes we have seen anecdotally that many military men (and cops and firefighters as well) have more daughters than they "should". Pilots absolutely father more girls and this has been shown in at least two studies that I've seen along the way, one of which was done in the Air Force.

    Where this gets weird is that there are also fields and careers where WOMEN have more daughters (nursing, for instance, and exercise instructors) and more often (at least in what has been studied) more sons. Women with higher level education (like masters or greater) have disproportionally more sons. So while when you're looking at things from this angle it seems like wow ok dudes have all the control here, but it clearly cannot be the case because we see sets of circumstances where women are in a certain situation and they have more sons regardless of what their husband does for a career.

    I'm going to answer your last question first because I think it will shed light on your other question. How do some men with jobs (or women for that matter) have the opposite gender? Well, even though it seems very one sided for you right now keep in mind that's just a random sampling and there are people who have done that job in the past that had more boys. While we do see the gender ratio skew, it is NEVER 100% or even close to it. It is very likely that over time some of those couples would have boys, they just haven't yet. That having been said what you have observed is fascinating and someone should absolutely do a study to investigate the gender ratio in the artillery but as of yet as far as I know that has been unstudied.

    Now, to answer your OTHER question - why, if the maternal dom theory and nutrition is true do none of these women have sons? This convo can get a little hairy at times so please take all this for whatever it's worth, but the truth is that guys in the military, the police, firefighters, pro athletes - we also get a lot of pro athletes with all girls - are a certain type of personality...to some extent. Not carbon copies or anything, not at all, but have a lot of personality similarities, and the women they marry are also probably going to have more personality similarities. It very well may be that some of these personality similarities tend to sway pink on the WOMEN'S end. For example, literally every time I go into Cabela's, I'm the ONLY person with sons in there. Every single family in the place has all girls (and this has happened at least 2 dozen times over the course of 10 years, it's quite remarkable). Now, being an outdoorsman is selecting for personality/lifestyle and NOT career, so it is plausible to me that there's some personality factors involved in being a manly man AND being the wife of a manly man that are very likely swaying.

    Then in addition, there are undeniable lifestyle similarities between one person in the military lifestyle and another. Being the wife of a military man is not easy, there are many challenges to face, the main one having to keep food on the table on a military salary, for example. This affects people's diet hugely. Military guys work long hours leaving a lot of housework and childcare to their spouses or SO and this means more stress (not to mention feeling like things are out of your control, which sways hugely pink) more exhaustion, etc. This is just the tip of a huge iceberg, off the top of my head I can think of lots of things/patterns/habits that could potentially be more common among military couples than other couples.

    Long story short - you're really not just looking at what the men are bringing to the table. There are a LOT of similarities in personality and lifestyle among the women involved that are very likely also moving the needle in ways that are less obvious but are just as big a factor. Not all of that is within our control, but SOME of it is, and we focus on that stuff for our sways.
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  3. #3
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    Atomic, thank you so much for the fast and informative reply!!! I really hope i am not bothering you with all these questions, I am just kind of a nerd about this stuff and would love to learn more. With the women with higher education, do you think this suggests that women with higher iq or who are more braniac type of women have more boys? I have definitely noticed this in women anecdotally but I actually see a lot of braniac men with higher education having more daughters. Like for instance, in college, I noticed my male professors had daughters but female professors had a tendency to have a boy first, or all boys.

    Can you explain the outdoorsmen thing? Do you think manly men have more daughters? Very interesting!!

    If I am not mistaken (and correct me if I am wrong) would you say the more busy, active, type A, adrenaline junkie men tend to have daughters (based on the careers you listed, which all seem to attract that personality characteristic?)

    I am so fascinated by this stuff, the women and I on base want to do a study on the artillery. What we do know is that lower sperm counts are associated with it, perhaps swaying pink.

    I really appreciate your help and what you are doing on your site. A lot of the military women are fascinated with your site and want to buy your TTC for boy plan. Hopefully it would work despite their husbands career!
    Last edited by emmir4356; August 15th, 2020 at 02:56 PM.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by atomic sagebrush View Post
    Yes, we have studies that show men in some careers have way more daughters than they have a "right" to.

    While I don't think there's a study on this particularly yes we have seen anecdotally that many military men (and cops and firefighters as well) have more daughters than they "should". Pilots absolutely father more girls and this has been shown in at least two studies that I've seen along the way, one of which was done in the Air Force.

    Where this gets weird is that there are also fields and careers where WOMEN have more daughters (nursing, for instance, and exercise instructors) and more often (at least in what has been studied) more sons. Women with higher level education (like masters or greater) have disproportionally more sons. So while when you're looking at things from this angle it seems like wow ok dudes have all the control here, but it clearly cannot be the case because we see sets of circumstances where women are in a certain situation and they have more sons regardless of what their husband does for a career.

    I'm going to answer your last question first because I think it will shed light on your other question. How do some men with jobs (or women for that matter) have the opposite gender? Well, even though it seems very one sided for you right now keep in mind that's just a random sampling and there are people who have done that job in the past that had more boys. While we do see the gender ratio skew, it is NEVER 100% or even close to it. It is very likely that over time some of those couples would have boys, they just haven't yet. That having been said what you have observed is fascinating and someone should absolutely do a study to investigate the gender ratio in the artillery but as of yet as far as I know that has been unstudied.

    Now, to answer your OTHER question - why, if the maternal dom theory and nutrition is true do none of these women have sons? This convo can get a little hairy at times so please take all this for whatever it's worth, but the truth is that guys in the military, the police, firefighters, pro athletes - we also get a lot of pro athletes with all girls - are a certain type of personality...to some extent. Not carbon copies or anything, not at all, but have a lot of personality similarities, and the women they marry are also probably going to have more personality similarities. It very well may be that some of these personality similarities tend to sway pink on the WOMEN'S end. For example, literally every time I go into Cabela's, I'm the ONLY person with sons in there. Every single family in the place has all girls (and this has happened at least 2 dozen times over the course of 10 years, it's quite remarkable). Now, being an outdoorsman is selecting for personality/lifestyle and NOT career, so it is plausible to me that there's some personality factors involved in being a manly man AND being the wife of a manly man that are very likely swaying.

    Then in addition, there are undeniable lifestyle similarities between one person in the military lifestyle and another. Being the wife of a military man is not easy, there are many challenges to face, the main one having to keep food on the table on a military salary, for example. This affects people's diet hugely. Military guys work long hours leaving a lot of housework and childcare to their spouses or SO and this means more stress (not to mention feeling like things are out of your control, which sways hugely pink) more exhaustion, etc. This is just the tip of a huge iceberg, off the top of my head I can think of lots of things/patterns/habits that could potentially be more common among military couples than other couples.

    Long story short - you're really not just looking at what the men are bringing to the table. There are a LOT of similarities in personality and lifestyle among the women involved that are very likely also moving the needle in ways that are less obvious but are just as big a factor. Not all of that is within our control, but SOME of it is, and we focus on that stuff for our sways.
    This is so crazy! My hubby and I were both military police but now I'm out so I'm just a spouse. This makes so much sense lol

    Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

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  6. #5
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    no trust me I love these kinds of questions and would much rather talk about this stuff than "should my cutoff be 3 days or 2" (even though I don't mind explaining that again and again)

    I actually DO NOT think it's "high IQ". Not at all. I do not think in any way that boy moms are smarter or better or more functional than girl moms (sometimes I get accused of that)
    I think it is a combination of having a very high level of drive and motivation, and attention to detail/being a control freak that both pushes women to excel in certain arenas And it very well may be a chicken egg kind of thing where the pursuit of the higher education/career choices is actually in and of itself swaying blue. I linked you to a post about the Maternal Dominance Hypothesis in another thread but just in case for anyone who doesn't see that, I have a horrendously long explanation here https://genderdreaming.com/forum/gen...ypothesis.html

    I do find super manly men (with some exceptions) do seem to have more daughters. Particularly when being a manly man is very important to the way they tend to define their self-worth if that makes sense. But let me also point out that there are also LIFESTYLE things that often go along with that sort of self-definition that may sway a lot. It's just a lot of causes and effects that are all tangled up with each other.

    When it comes to Type A men, the answer is - it depends on their wife. I think there are some Type A dudes who marry Type A women and then they have GOBS of boys (I'd put my husband and I in this category for sure). And then there are definitely Type A dudes who have more laid back wives and have girls, laid back dudes with driven wives who have all boys, and every possible combo therein. The truth is we can spot some trends but just can't say for sure since no one is talking about this stuff unfortunately.

    But let's not lose sight of how most people's families are - majority of folks have BG or GB or BBG or GBG or GGB - it's pretty unusual for people to end up with these big all one gender family that some of us on this site have!

    we do see the lower sperm count and lower sperm quality associated with more girls conceived - but the good news is in many cases that is FIXABLE!

    Yes by all means send them my way - and while I do appreciate purchases as this helps me to do this as my full time job rather than having to work outside the home (and being unable to answer any questions in that case) I help everyone even regardless of their ability to pay. So no one needs to feel like if they can't buy a plan they can't show up and have me help them. I know military families are in many cases on a strict budget and everyone is welcome.
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  7. #6
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    They said they would buy a plan! I will likely buy one in about a week when my next paycheck comes

    For pilots, is it only fighter pilots or all pilots in general? He is not a fighter pilot but he is an airforce pilot

    It's interesting, someone asked this on Quora and I was very intrigued by one of the responses. When asked if pilots father more daughters, someone said,

    "I’ve heard numerous anecdotes that the G in “G-force” actually stands for “girls,” and statistically, the data does seem to show a correlation: about 60% of children born to these flyers are girls.

    This paper on PubMed suggests that fighter pilots and astronauts are more affected, while commercial pilots and the regular population see more normalized ratios. G-forces are suspected by some, and scorned by others.

    The theory I’ve heard that makes the most sense to me has nothing to with G-forces, and a lot more to do with the personalities of these kind of men: Type-A, aggressive, highly-successful individuals, who, not coincidentally, have a lot of sex. Frequent sexual activity is also linked to a higher ratio of daughters."

    Do you think its true that frequent sexual activity sways pink? Shettles method book stated this. Now, we know that the timing thing is bullshit but do you think shettles was right about the active sex life thing? This seems to go against the one attempt you recommend, so I guess the active sex life is untrue.


    Also, do you have the study about how womens career sways? I can't find it on google and would love to read it! Do you think women working in management or who are executive directors for example sway blue? I have also noticed that SAHM heavily sways girl.. thoughts? Thank you SO SO much Atomic! You are my hero
    Last edited by emmir4356; August 16th, 2020 at 10:39 PM.

  8. #7
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    I don't have the study in front of me but it was fighter pilots (prob the same study they're referencing, though there's another one too) and I'm not totally convinced it is the G forces either. Lots of variables.

    Re frequent sex - there are other people who theorize that lots of sex sways blue (and use this to explain the heightened gender ratio after wars...men get home and start having lots of sex and have boys). This is all very speculative and in many cases scientists speculate largely based on their OWN assumptions rather than any facts. (like for example, we don't know that men coming back from war even DO have an unusually excessive amount of sex, nor do we know that fighter pilots do either)

    Based on our observations, what we find is that BOTH things can be true. There is a certain kind of couple in which they have sex daily all thru the entire menstrual cycle. So when they plan to try and conceive, they stop using protection, but the man has been releasing daily or even more than daily (and in a fair number of these cases, the woman is not particularly interested in sex most of these times, and in several cases that I've come across the woman had never had an orgasm) and so they end up having attempts in the fertile window after many days of what we call "frequent release". This can lower sperm count quite dramatically and may sway pink, even though 3+ attempts in the fertile window can sway blue.

    Often, these same couples do the absolute WORST thing they could possibly do when swaying blue - they continue to have that daily sex, but then the fertile window opens and they stop having sex and have only ONE attempt on what they hope is O Day. So then not only is the hubby depleted but they end up with only one attempt, and it may not even be on O Day (even though timing doesn't sway anyway)

    But far more common among the people with all GIRLS (I'm talking 90-10) are the couples who very rarely have sex at all. They have sex once a week, once a month, even once every 6 months - and both parties are mostly ok with that.

    The vast majority of the people with all boys have regular sex every couple days most of the time and then when they're trying, they have a lot of sex in the fertile window.

    The overall trend I see is that couples with all girls are less sexual than couples with all boys but it's just a trend with plenty of exceptions.

    I couldn't find the studies in a reasonable search for them so I'll have to go up to my library and look them up by their specific name, remind me if I don't get to it. I even know the scientist who did the study but I seem to be getting every other of their studies and not the ones I'm looking for. :/

    Re SAHMs - that's actually not what I find. I think there's a large socioeconomic factor coming into play - most women are not able to stay at home and this selects for a financial bracket that is likely higher. I know scads of all boy SAHMs (and indeed, my reverse story of my experience at Cabela's is going into Costco over the years and every woman in there has this pack of boys in tow and we're all fistbumping each other as we pass, LOL).
    Last edited by atomic sagebrush; August 17th, 2020 at 01:58 PM.
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  9. #8
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    also, if you would like to hear it, I can explain how we learned the one attempt sways pink
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    Yes, I would love to hear!! Thank you for that information, atomic. I am in love with this website and how informative you are. With the part where you said 90-10 have all boys with not much sex, did you mean girls or was that correct? Just clarifying because the next paragraph seemed to indicate that boy moms are more sexual. Just checking looking forward to hearing about the one attempt! I totally believe in it, I have an older brother and my mom said it was multiple attempts for him but for me I was a one hit wonder lol and they were not trying at all. My mom has also recently lost her dad the month before so she was super depressed which sways pink so all this makes so much sense. On top of that her and my dad were about 35 which seems to sway also your theory makes much more sense than Shettles!

  11. #10
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    yes that is exactly what I meant, so sorry. I got interrupted a couple times while writing that reply and sometimes I'll be thinking about "people who want boys" and write the wrong thing.

    It is very very very common for me to have those with many girls show up here and tell me that they don't have sex but once every few weeks. Practically unheard of among those with many boys.
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