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View Full Version : The Jellybean Factory – Understanding Sperm Count and Frequency



atomic sagebrush
April 25th, 2012, 12:24 PM
People have a hard time wrapping their brains around how frequency patterns sway. Here’s an analogy that can maybe help us visualize the process a little bit.

Imagine that your husband’s entire body, but particularly his testicles, are a jelly bean factory, making jelly beans every day. By using the raw materials he gets/makes from the foods he eats, this jelly bean factory makes one big XY jelly bean that then divides into two X and two Y jelly beans in a process that take about 72 days for his jelly beans to mature. This process repeats itself millions of times a day.

AT the bottom of the jelly bean factory is a big glass jar – or two, but just to make it easier to picture we’ll imagine one glass jar (proper name – epididymis) where sperm are stored. At the end of the jar, is a spout that dispenses the jelly beans (I think we all know the proper name for the spout LOL). Every time he ejaculates, you get a ‘serving’ of jelly beans that have been deposited there over the course of several days. Some are older, some are newer. Some are X, some are Y – and NOTHING you can do can change that fact – both X and Y are ejaculated in roughly 50-50, every man, every time.

As the jelly beans age, they begin to turn into licorice ones that taste bad and even when dispensed, usually no one wants them and they just get thrown away – these ‘licorice sperm’ tend to be poor swimmers, don’t survive long in the female body, and they’re the least likely to fertilize an egg. After a while, the oldest and unhealthiest licorice ones get too stale and the materials in them are reused to make new jelly beans. There are NOT separate compartments for each day’s sperm, nor are there separate batches of sperm…the factory is always running, always depositing more layers.

As the sperm are made, they are added to the glass storage jar. For the sake of illustration, imagine that the jelly beans he makes every day are different colors and as they’re deposited, they kind of form layers (which they almost certainly do to some extent). Each scoop or layer, is sperm that DH is making on a daily basis. So one day he makes purple, one day he makes green, one day he makes yellow, different amounts each day depending on how well the factory is functioning, how full the glass storage jar is, and the amount of raw materials he has available. Among these layers, about half are marked with a tiny X and half are marked with a tiny Y (because remember, that first big jelly bean he makes is a big XY that then splits into 2 X, 2 Y jelly beans) and nothing you do can change that proportion.

The newest layers of jelly beans are deposited on top and over time, the oldest jelly beans tend to sink to the bottom and get used up while more new ones are dropped on the top. They are not strictly segregated, however – just like when you dispense anything from a dispenser, it’s totally possible that some old ones get pushed up against the sides and never manage to come out the spout, and also possible that some newer ones manage to jockey their way down a little faster than you might expect and “take cuts” ahead of some who’ve been waiting longer (you know how that sort of whirpool effect happens and the stuff in the middle sometimes gets pulled down faster than the stuff on the sides can.)

On average however, the older jelly beans tend to get dispensed sooner and the newer jelly beans, later. You’d probably never get any of the newest jelly beans in a batch, because they haven’t had the time to sink to the bottom of the dispenser, and you’d never get only the oldest layer of jelly beans because at least some other layers would get mixed in there as well. And it’s very likely that you NEVER are able to get all the jelly beans from any one layer or have any batches that are just one layer created on one day. Some will always get pushed up against the sides and turn into licorice and eventually be recycled into new jelly beans. So pink swayers, if you’re worried about the day your husband cheated on his diet and went to Kentucky Fried Chicken or blue swayers, if you’re remembering how your husband sat in a hot tub after you told him not to and are trying to count back 72 days to find out when exactly that day’s sperm is going to come out so you can just not BD that day, don’t!! It doesn’t work that way.

Further complicating matters, he doesn’t just make or dispense a set number of jelly beans on any given day. The amount of jelly beans he makes/dispenses depends on several different factors. Firstly, there is a limited amount of room in the dispenser. If the dispenser starts to get full and stays full for a really long time, he will start to make fewer jelly beans (he may experience testicular pain as well), the jelly beans may accidentally dispense themselves usually while he’s sleeping ;), and when you do dispense a batch, a LOT of jelly beans will probably come out because they’re under some pressure from the other jelly beans trying to get out. Since the jelly beans aren’t getting used up regularly, more of them will turn into licorice jelly beans, and the ones on the bottom will end up being a quite high percent licorice – but probably not all licorice. The whirlpool effect will probably ensure that some newer jelly beans make it out along with the licorice ones.

Obviously, this is how abstain works. Many men report they actually have very large batches of semen after abstain and people have been concerned about this for their pink sway, but more of the sperm are bad and incapable of fertilizing an egg. Net result – fewer edible jelly beans, fewer sperm able to swim to/fertilize the egg. Lower VIABLE sperm numbers = more girls.

Since it is a jellybean factory that is going 24-7, there are always more layers being deposited constantly, half X and half Y, and the more you take out (the more he ejaculates) the sooner the layers on top will make it to the bottom and get dispensed, so you can guarantee that if you take out servings of jelly beans pretty regularly, all your jelly beans will be fresh and tasty with very few licorice ones. At the same time, you don’t want to take out SO many jelly beans that there are hardly any left. This why you want to BD every 2-4 days for blue - max numbers of nice fresh jelly beans/sperm, and large amounts of healthy sperm = boys. Please understand, there are STILL about 50-50 X and Y sperm regardless, but more and healthier sperm, both X and Y sways blue for reasons we do not yet understand.

Blue swauers, if something happens and you go 5 days between BD, or would like to have more than one attempt in your fertile window/microwindow and BD every other day or even 2-3 days in a row, that’s FINE! That will not ruin your sway even tho it is not the strict, 'every 2-4 days' suggestion. You can see it’s still very, very different from what pink swayers are doing and is nowhere near enough to deplete the numbers of jelly beans.

At the same time, the jelly bean factory only has a limited number of ingredients for making more jelly beans, so if you scoop out lots and lots all the time, over time there start to be fewer and fewer jelly beans per scoop (which is how FR and compressed FR can sway pink.) The factory never shuts down production, so there will always be a FEW jelly beans being made. In fact, since demand seems to be high, the factory may even increase production to some extent but by constantly dispensing the jelly beans as quickly as they can collect, you ensure that numbers stay low. Lower sperm numbers sways pink even tho both X and Y are being dispensed in roughly equal numbers.

Sometimes pink swayers wonder about switching from abstain to FR, or continuing with straight FR after missing a day. The reason why this is not the greatest idea, is all about supply and demand. With abstain, the factory does kind of shut down production but then when you have your abstain BD, it’s usually a big batch that helps to ‘clean the pipes’ and get rid of a lot of the licorice jelly beans. All of a sudden there’s a lot of room for fresh jelly beans, and probably quite a bit of spare raw materials that the factory can use to make more very quickly. So production may go up suddenly and then if you BD again after your abstain, you may end up with a big batch of some leftover older sperm (the factory is still trying to get rid of those!!) and a nice big batch of fresh sperm, net result, higher sperm numbers than with just abstain + 1 attempt. With FR, production may even be a bit higher still, because demand is higher, so if you miss a day, you end up with fresh healthy sperm that may add up quickly. In both instances, it’s better to switch to compressed FR (2-3 releases in a 12-24 hours, using only the last batch for insemination) because you’ll be able to better deplete numbers that way. Keep in mind that neither of these two situations is make or break – you’ll still get about 50-50 X and Y sperm regardless and if you’re swaying (pink especially, but also blue sway tactics like BSF, BSD, and Shettles timing), you may actually NEED more sperm because so much of swaying can be harmful for sperm survival.

Like any factory, things can break down and go wrong – heat/pressure can cause good jelly beans to turn licorice before their time, high levels of chemicals (even things like nicotine, alcohol, and caffeine) and hormones like estrogen can both reduce the factory’s production and also increase the proportion of licorice jelly beans, some men are just born with factories that are a little less effective than they should be or their factory has become less efficient over time from aging, injury, lack of sleep, stress, or disease. All these things can reduce production and sway pink regardless of frequency of BD.

If you limit the amounts of ingredients the factory has coming in to begin with, your husband just cannot MAKE as many jelly beans as he would be able to under ideal circumstances. And too many ingredients can be just as bad as not enough – too much sugar, fat, and certain nutrients like zinc can cause the equipment to malfunction, even tho under ideal circumstances they actually help make jelly beans!!

For swaying blue you just want to get the factory running as efficiently as you can, provide ample amounts of high quality ingredients but not so much that the equipment gets overwhelmed (esp. with mineral supplements, more is not better!), take out regular (every 2-4 days) but not overly frequent batches of jelly beans/sperm to ensure steady production and freshness. As long as the batches are regular, not too many or too few, and DH is in good health and eating right, the odds are good that you will get large amounts of fresh jelly beans. Have him avoid stress, get plenty of rest, avoid heat and pressure from bike seats or tighty whiteys, limit alcohol and caffeine and STOP SMOKING, and if he works around industrial chemicals or radiation, he should take precautions to limit his exposure as much as possible. Make sure he is treated for any underlying testicular injury or disease (and having a very high pH 9+ can actually be a symptom of underlying infections that are actually BAD for sperm and will sway pink regardless of pH, so if your husband has high pH naturally, don’t celebrate, blue swayers - he needs to see a doctor to rule out any infections that are causing his pH to rise while making him shoot excess numbers of licorice jelly beans!!))

To sway pink, you have to take out A LOT of jelly beans frequently (once a day for 7-10 days or even more, OR 2-3 times a day for 2-3 days, dumping all batches, then 2-3 times a day using only the last batch for insemination), or else not take any for a long time (abstain for 7-10 days, up to 14 but no longer) and let the licorice ones add up. You may also want to limit raw materials (esp. saturated fat and cholesterol for DH) and keep the equipment in less than ideal condition by having DH wear tighty whiteys, take hot baths, use licorice root, getting less sleep, ride a bike, etc. He does not need to stop drinking or give up caffeine for swaying – and if he smokes, of course for his health it’s better to stop but it’s not better for your sway.

rainbowflower
April 25th, 2012, 02:01 PM
Mmm this makes me feel hungry!

(but good analogy too)

Sent from my HTC Wildfire using Tapatalk 2

Hobbermittens
April 25th, 2012, 02:02 PM
You told me the jelly bean analogy when I was planning my sway, and it was a great visual. Great essay!

atomic sagebrush
April 25th, 2012, 02:18 PM
Hey, I wouldn't have thought of it if not for you!!! :heart: I've been meaning to expand it ever since!!

amari
April 25th, 2012, 07:39 PM
Thanks, very easy to understand that way!

Myloves
April 26th, 2012, 04:24 AM
I love this essay. And I now peckish... for jellybeans.

nks798
April 26th, 2012, 07:58 AM
this essay is awesome!

zanacal
April 26th, 2012, 09:25 AM
Yesterday (before I read thisi) I ate so many jellybeans I felt sick - and now that sounds rude!! Great essay as alway AS x

auroara78
April 26th, 2012, 09:32 AM
this is was very fun to read and also of course, informative

hopingforsaskia
April 26th, 2012, 09:35 AM
I get it now!!!!! :)

LolaInLove
April 26th, 2012, 10:20 AM
GREAT ANALOGY! And spot on, too. Thanks for taking the time to write this out and post! I think it will dispel a lot of the timing fears people have, especially the blue swayers who bd two days in a row and freak about it, etc.

Butterfly Spirit
April 26th, 2012, 07:34 PM
I BDed as much as I could but it was BD every 2-3 days.. One of the days was twice, so I hope that is good!

atomic sagebrush
April 28th, 2012, 10:30 AM
I BDed as much as I could but it was BD every 2-3 days.. One of the days was twice, so I hope that is good!

BD every 2-3 days would be more of a blue frequency pattern BUT I really don't think that frequency sways that much. I wouldn't worry about it either way.

I got this girl BD every 4 days (also blue frequency).

Dreamofpink
August 25th, 2012, 05:30 PM
Thank you so much Atomic for this brilliant and easy to understand essay! It's so infomative and funny too, really appreciate all the hard work you've put into it.

Tiggerian
November 29th, 2012, 05:06 AM
I don't think I will ever view jelly beans quite the same again!

Which is the best for getting preggers quickly when swaying pink (on clomid) FR or abstain? If your OH is the sort of bloke who refuses to do either and just wants it when he wants it, will it fantastically ruin our sway chances? Can always add jelly I suppose + he is generally quite unhealthy (smokes like a chimney, drinks coffee as if he was being paid for it)

atomic sagebrush
November 30th, 2012, 05:48 PM
i always advise FR with clomid, because that way you can easily add in more attempts.

xxxx
February 8th, 2013, 01:00 PM
Hello AS or any one who can advise me, am planning an attempt soon, my DH would be back 2 days to my OV. Do I proceed with DTD or not? After 6 weeks abstinence. Am swaying blue, Please kindly advise, am a bit confused. Thanks in advance.

atomic sagebrush
February 12th, 2013, 02:33 PM
Answered via pm

1adorablebabyboymom
February 12th, 2013, 04:15 PM
If you fr for 7-10 days every day and then the real attempt, is it ok if dh does it with you with a condom? I know they are not '100% reliable', but reliable enough for us, if you know what I mean. Would it be best to make sure dw does no o during any of that, or does it only matter to not o (even tho we still don't know how huge a blue or pink sway that has) on the actual attempt day? Thanks!!

atomic sagebrush
February 13th, 2013, 01:35 PM
I think it's fine. Some people choose not to because it may raise testosterone levels, but I don't think it matters.

You may even want to use a spermicide condom, the leftover residue may sway slightly pink.

mmsgirlie22
February 14th, 2013, 02:14 AM
Dang now I want Jelly Beans. lol

Excellent write up AS. All the random questions about frequency that were floating in my head have been answered. Thanks!!

Tree
March 17th, 2013, 11:46 PM
What do you advise for a heathy fertile couple swaying for a girl, fr or abstain? One of my concerns with abstaining is that the 'liquorice' unhealthy ones might get fertilised because of their quantity rather than a healthy ones.
Also you said we don't know why bd-ing every couple of days produces more boys, I assume therefore we don't know why lowering sperm count produces more girls?
Thank you!

Mrs.tinkerbell
March 18th, 2013, 07:07 AM
Also worried old sperm less healthy ones my cause problems KKeep thinking if the sperm as being stale. Also conceived my boy by bd every day on our honeymoon it waa boiling hot and husband had tight pants on whole time as we had a private veranda so having a boy this way clearly didn't work for us.

Tree
March 18th, 2013, 07:54 AM
I think the idea of frequent release is that he helps himself and then you just have one attempt at time of ovulation. The reason being I guess that if you bd regularly then the pool of sperm is increasing inside you. So even though you are decreasing the sperm count for him you are not for you if that makes sense. One attempt after fr will mean you just get one batch with lowered sperm count. It has also been suggested that fr does bd-ing increases testosterone for both if you. Finally don't forget that 1. There will always be opposites and 2. That the biggest swaying factor seems to be diet. X

atomic sagebrush
March 19th, 2013, 09:05 PM
What do you advise for a heathy fertile couple swaying for a girl, fr or abstain? One of my concerns with abstaining is that the 'liquorice' unhealthy ones might get fertilised because of their quantity rather than a healthy ones.
Also you said we don't know why bd-ing every couple of days produces more boys, I assume therefore we don't know why lowering sperm count produces more girls?
Thank you!

Under 35, abstain, over 35, FR/CFR/HFR or even NOTHING.

Reason is, FR is HARD WORK and not for the faint of heart, the reason why i think abstain is better has as much to do with ease of use as it does effectiveness (I think they're prob. very equally effective). All guys think they can do FR for months on end but after a few go-rounds it gets very old esp. with licorice in the mix. Then the pressure is on and you may end up dropping sway tactics you really want to include in order to get pg more quickly, and things like one attempt and longer on diet are almost certainly WAY WAY WAY better sway tactics than FR/abstain anyway. so you end up giving up things that do sway because everyone's so sick of FR.

It is HARD for the sperm to get to the egg. The unhealthy sperm are just going to lay there and die, leaving only the healthy guys to go onto fertilize the egg.

BD every couple of days is optimal for sperm health and quality. We do not know why higher nubmers of sperm seem to sway blue and lower seem to sway pink. I have my theory, which is that since it takes several sperm to penetrate the egg shell, it may be that more sperm makes it easier to penetrate and may give an advantage to the slightly tinier Y sperm, while fewer sperm may take a bit longer to get thru the eggshell, the egg shell may be a bit thicker because not as many sperm are trying to get through it, and so the slightly bigger X sperm may have a bit of an advantage in that scenario. Or, it may be some primitive communication between X and Y sperm makes more X than Y capacitate when there are less of them, or vice versa. No way to know.

atomic sagebrush
March 19th, 2013, 09:13 PM
Also worried old sperm less healthy ones my cause problems KKeep thinking if the sperm as being stale. Also conceived my boy by bd every day on our honeymoon it waa boiling hot and husband had tight pants on whole time as we had a private veranda so having a boy this way clearly didn't work for us.

Frequent BD is NOT the same as frequent release for the reason that Tree describes, and no method is a magic bullet anyway. I hate to see people dismiss sway tactics just because they think it didn't work, because even a tactic that is 80% effective will still yield opposites 20% of the time. You do NOT need to do everything the opposite when you TTC for swaying, because it's hardly ever any one thing, and certainly not something as variable as frequency.

http://genderdreaming.com/forum/gender-swaying-general-discussion/25293-three-essays-swaying.html

Mrs.tinkerbell
March 20th, 2013, 08:47 AM
Atomic I'm 29 and DH is 31 however he has been on steriods for an illness so were not sure if that alone will lower his sperm count however if we're going to abstrain is 8 days long enough I'm thinking start to abstrain at af then Dtd on day 8/9 I bought clear blues monitor and on day 9 I had high fetitliy day 10 and today 11 are peak and then we just Dtd the did once yeah? How long do we need to wait after till we can Dtd again??

atomic sagebrush
March 20th, 2013, 09:11 AM
7-10 days for abstain.

DTD once is perfect. You can DTD unprotected once you have a temp rise of 3 days or 48-72 hours after your Clearblue confirms O

Mrs.tinkerbell
March 20th, 2013, 09:22 AM
7-10 days for abstain.

DTD once is perfect. You can DTD unprotected once you have a temp rise of 3 days or 48-72 hours after your Clearblue confirms O

Thanks so much. so much info to get to grips with

atomic sagebrush
March 20th, 2013, 01:31 PM
i know - of anything not to worry about, frequncy is not that important.

Tree
March 20th, 2013, 04:16 PM
I was planning to DTD on the day of positive opk. Does that sound right?

atomic sagebrush
March 21st, 2013, 01:57 PM
that's what worked for me :agree: