Guide to Replens and RepHresh (Part 1)

[atomic sagebrush]

Complete guide to Replens and RepHresh
Guide to Replens and RepHresh (Part 1)

Ok, after reading 6 million (conflicting) posts on Replens and RepHresh, I finally feel qualified to write this LOL.

Replens and RePhresh are both vaginal moisturizers that are low in pH. They're made by the same company and are available in the US and Europe at drugstores and worldwide via the Internet..

Most swaying websites advise Replens for swaying. It has a superlow pH, according to the company it is 3-3.5, according to IG the pH is 2.8. Sounds fab right??

However, Replens was recalled this last fall. In light of this, I started looking more at RepHresh (some of you may remember the situation with Aci-Jel, where it was recalled and then simply never came back onto the market, so I wondered if the same thing might happen with Replens). I found out that RepHresh may actually be BETTER for swaying than Replens is. I'll lay out the details for both and then everyone can make up their own minds about which is better for them.

Replens does have a very low pH, so if you use Replens and then immediately take your pH afterwards, it's gonna look great. Very low. But according to the company that makes it, Replens contains pH buffers of 4-5. pH buffers are chemicals that react with low pH (whether it's the low pH of the Replens, or the low pH of your vagina, or both) to actually RAISE the pH to 4-5. The normal pH of the vagina is 4.5 and so that's what the company designs ALL its products to emulate. The company is not designing their products to sway, so NONE of their products are meant to lower your pH any more than what our vaginas are most of the time anyway. If you're looking for pH lower than 4.5, you're going to have to douche.

Still, 4.5, that's not too shabby. Replens is also a sticky gel and hangs around your vagina for awhile, unlike douches which wash away, leaving behind CM and semen to take their place. Replens may mix somewhat with CM and semen, rendering them lower in pH than they would be otherwise, but the pH will be an average between the two, not the 4-5 of the Replens alone. Anyone who likes Replens, it's a good option for swaying, especially with O+12. It does lower pH, no doubt about it.

The recall on Replens is over with and if your drugstore is still not stocking it, you can fill out this form, find out when it will be back at your local store, and get a $5 coupon. http://www.replens.com/outofstock/

Now - RepHresh. People used to use RepHresh for swaying back a few years ago in the same manner that Replens is used by some people now. It was abandoned when some enterprising people armed with pH sticks, realized that the initial pH of RepHresh is slightly higher than the initial pH of Replens (the pH of RepHresh is somewhere between 3.5-5, depending on who you talk to), not understanding that Replens contains the pH buffers that react chemically to produce pH of 4-5 anyway.

The difference between Replens and RepHresh is, that RepHresh is designed to BALANCE vaginal pH at that magic 4.5 number. If your pH is higher, it lowers it to 4.5. If your pH is lower, it will raise it to 4.5. That has scared some people off RepHresh because they think, OMG, I just douched with my lime douche that had pH of 2 and now the RepHresh will RAISE my pH back up again!

But go back and reread that first part. If your pH is higher, it lowers it to 4.5. You know what that means? It means that when the more alkaline EWCM arrives on the scene, which it will, because your entire reproductive tract is ALWAYS churning out more CM especially around ovulation, RepHresh will lower its pH to 4.5. It means when your husband's semen arrives on scene, RepHresh will lower its pH to 4.5. It will be a 4.5 party going on. WHO cares if the initial pH of RepHresh is slightly higher than the initial pH of Replens? Both of them end up between 4-5 anyway because the company designed them to.

The difference is, RepHresh KEEPS working, reacting with everything it touches to reach 4.5, while Replens gets diluted by CM and semen. The company even advises using RepHresh immediately after sex to restore that normal vaginal pH of 4.5, because some women who are prone to yeast infections or bacterial vaginosis, get a flare up EVERY time they have sex because their pH goes up from the semen. RepHresh is designed to prevent this jump in pH from happening by lowering the pH of everything it touches to the magic 4.5. Including semen.

Plus, because it's a sticky gel, RepHresh lasts for THREE DAYS. Perfect for a cutoff. Replens also lasts three days too, but remember it gets diluted by CM and semen and its pH WILL rise. RepHresh also contains acetic acid which may help sway pink (same as in the vinegar douche). Replens does not contain acetic acid. So for a cutoff, I think RepHresh is best. However, since we don't know how long it will take RepHresh to work, if you're going for O+12, it may be best to use Replens or Acijel to lower pH immediately, because the sperm will not be waiting around in the cervical crypts for the egg like they do with a cut-off.

[atomic sagebrush]

Part 2)
NOW - onto the directions. Using Replens/RepHresh for swaying purposes is not scientifically tested. I'm just reporting on what makes the most SENSE to me after reading about them. If something doesn't make sense to you, if you think of a better way to do it, by all means, please do what feels right to you. And let me know about it so we can improve! This is all about helping as many people as possible get their DG!! :agree:

Both Replens and RepHresh are sold in pre-measured applicators kind of like tampons.

:ttcgirl:How to use Replens -

Replens is actually safe to use every day, but the company suggests that for best results, you use it every three days, beginning the day after your period. It will keep your pH somewhere between 4-5 but can get diluted and made less effective, by CM and semen. One nice thing about Replens is that it helps with the vaginal dryness that many of the pink swayers experience and it's girl friendly unlike most lubes.

To use Replens for lubricant purposes, you don't need to use it immediately before your attempt...in fact, you shouldn't. That initial burst of very low pH may kill ALL the sperm. It works best as a lube when used some time prior to intercourse anyway (if you read on any other websites that it doesn't work as a lube, it's because they used it right before DTD and it needs time to disperse). IF you choose to use finger-quantities of Replens simply to lower pH and not for its lubrication, make sure you use it one day in advance of your attempt. Any longer and it will be diluted, any sooner and it may kill sperm.

The amount to use and how often is really open for debate and is probably different for everyone. Some swayers use only a fingertip full, applied near the cervix, every other day, but I personally believe this is based on a lack of understanding the pH buffers, and that the initial pH of Replens is lower than what it will be in the long term. Not to mention the reality that your body will begin to make massive amounts of CM as you near O and that sperm will be deposited throughout your vagina and you don't want any little nooks and crannies with higher pH. An applicator-full will get everywhere, not just around the cervix.

Also, the applicators are easier and more sanitary to use than our own fingers, cutting down on the risk of infection and the overall stress of swaying.

If you choose to use an entire applicator, I would do it three days in advance of when your attempt will be, NOT when O will be. So if you're going for a cutoff, do it three days prior to the day you anticipate DTD. If you're going for O+12, you should use it 2 days before O.

If you choose to use less than an applicator-full, you might choose to push it closer to your attempt - as an example, a person might choose to use 1/2 an applicator 2 days before, or a fingertip the morning of an attempt. Under no circumstances should you use any Replens immediately prior to your attempt. And DO NOT use Replens when there is sperm on scene, such as immediately after an attempt. (use RepHresh for that.)

You may want to play around with Replens in the months prior to your attempt to see how long the Replens-induced lower pH lasts for you. Since many of us find that we have very little CM and our vaginal tissue becomes more delicate after being on the TTC girl diet and supps (thanks to lower testosterone levels), you may find it helpful to use Replens twice a week regardless, to help provide moisture and for your own comfort. Esp. if you're going for frequent release - vaginal dryness when you're trying to DTD every day is hard on everyone's equipment. :wink:

If your pH is already very very low (less than 5) AND you have monitored it through ovulation and even your EWCM is very low, you are probably better off staying away from Replens all together and using RepHresh instead. Also, if you're using other things like antihistamine to reduce your CM, douching to wash CM away, and spermicide to lower sperm count, you may want to reduce/not use Replens because it will make it even harder to get pregnant. You CAN use Replens along with douching, but just make sure that you stick to the "full applicator three days before BD/fingertip morning of BD" idea.

So, Replens can be a great addition to an overall sway, if only by making intercourse more pleasant and doing so in a pink-friendly way. Plus it has the nice additional advantage of lowering pH.

NOTE - IF you are lucky enough to stumble onto the magical Aci-jel, use it exactly as you use Replens.

:ttcgirl: How to use RepHresh -

You can use RepHresh exactly as you use Replens, a full applicator-full every three days, beginning the day after your period ends. Or you can use less than that, less often. Whatever works for you. It will react with and lower the pH of everything alkaline that it comes into contact with, like CM and Semen, and even other lubes. And it will help maintain moisture in your vagina making it easier to DTD.

However, instead of stopping three days before your attempt, use 1/2 applicator 12 hours before your attempt, and if you choose to, 1/2 applicator right after after your attempt (yes, this will kill off some sperm, but serves the same purpose of spermicide, lowering overall sperm count, while also lowering pH.) Do this regardless of whether you choose a cutoff or O+12.

You may want to play around with RepHresh in the months prior to your attempt to see how long the lower pH lasts. Some people have found their pH actually rises on RepHresh, but this may be temporary and with repeated usage, it may stabilize at 4.5.

Since many of us find that we have very little CM and our vaginal tissue becomes more delicate after being on the TTC girl diet and supps (thanks to lower testosterone levels), you may find it helpful to use RepHresh twice a week regardless of whether it increases your pH a wee bit, to help provide moisture and for your own comfort. Esp. if you're going for frequent release - vaginal dryness when you're trying to DTD every day is hard on everyone's equipment. :wink:

If you're also doing things like taking antihistamines to dry up CM and also using spermicide to lower sperm count, you may want to go easy on the RepHresh and skip the after-BD dose...may be too much of a good thing. Also, DO NOT use RepHresh along with douching because it will react to the low pH of the douche and cause a rise in pH.

NUTSHELL VERSION - Replens: Using a full applicator every three days beginning the day after your period and ending three days before attempt will help lower pH while providing moisture and lubrication for those using frequent BD/frequent release. OR just a full applicator three days before attempt for those abstaining. A fingertip's worth every other day throughout your cycle may help lower pH, but will not help with vaginal dryness. DO NOT use immediately prior to or immediately after DTD. Test ahead of time for best results. You CAN use a fingertip of Replens along with douching because it doesn't respond to low pH.

RepHresh: Use full applicator every three days ending 1 day before attempt. If desired, use 1/2 applicator 12 hours before BD and/or the other half immediately afterwards, in lieu of douching. DO NOT use RepHresh with a douche as it will cause pH to rise. Test ahead of time for best results.

WARNING - From the Replens/RepHresh website:

Some women notice a residue or discharge after initial use of Replens (RepHresh). This is caused by the elimination of dead skin cells. Your body naturally sheds dry vaginal tissue that has built up over time. When used on a regular basis, Replens (RepHresh) will help prevent the buildup of dead skin cells and the discharge should dissipate. If the discharge does not dissipate, you may wish to wait an extra day or two between applications. While use is recommended every three days, every woman is unique and you may wish to increase or decrease the amount of time between Replens(RepHresh) applications to maximize moisture and minimize discharge.

[Another princess]

Wow thanks for this Atomic. Really appreciate it! From your research it seem that repHresh is probably the better of the two then. I have purchased a tube of Acigel so was hoping to use that, but havent tested it yet. Think its alot easier to get hold of now - its in stock in all australian pharmacies and you can order it on line and they will ship internationally. Do you know much about acigel? Do you think its better than repHesh/replens? After reading your findings repHesh does seem to have alot going for it.

[Another princess]

Have been googling for more info on Aci-jel as i am still keen to use it for my sway but was disappointed that i was unable to find any information other than the info on the leaflet which comes along with the gel. Atomic, was wondering if you possibly had access to more info on Acijel which you could dig up and kindly share with us? Am very intrigued by the info you provided on rePHresh which has lead me to consider if or not i should use that instead. My CM PH seems to be at 4.3 and that is without diet and supps. Havent really noticed an increase in it at ovulation but havent had my hanna tester long. Im particularly intersted in the fact that rePHresh acts on anything it comes into contact with ie semen and will reduce the ph level to 4-5. With my ph already being low it is my Dh which i am more concerned of, however the rePHresh would lower it. However Acijel is supposed to be the magic gel (although have seen opposites with it). Apparently it was originally designed for swaying purposes which still makes me question if its the best thing to use to lower ph. Your opinions are much appreciated. Thanks

[atomic sagebrush]

Supposedly, Acijel is far and away the best for swaying pink. Unlike RepHresh/Replens, it was designed to sway.

I have more research to do on Acijel and also Sylk which some have used to great success. I wish I could clone myself!!

It does sound like it Acijel now available again. It was impossible to come by for some time there.

[Another princess]

Thanks Atomic. Can not thank you enough! Yes Aci-jel was impossible to get hold of for quite sometime and i think in U.S you can still only get Acid jelly which is an identical product, however its only available on prescription. At present Australia and new Zealand are the places you can purchase it and as i said alot of the girls from IG have ordered it online as they will ship it worldwide.

[atomic sagebrush]

Chacha sent me this link for a place to buy Acijel:
http://www.nz-online-pharmacy.com/products/Aci%252dJel-Vaginal-Jelly.html

[crystal-light]

Is it true that aci-jel always lowers ph or can it make ph rise in some?

[Another princess]

[QUOTE=crystal-light;6259]Is it true that aci-jel always lowers ph or can it make ph rise in some?[/QUOTE

Some ladies have found that Aci-jel does in fact raise their CM ph. I havent tested mine out as yet so dont have first hand experience, however you really need to try it out before ttc to see if it works for you. I have read that some people have found it to raise their ph on the first couple of applications and have been very disappointed, but then persisted with it and found that it eventually did the trick to kept their ph low. So even if it doesnt work on first or second test of it, its worth trying it out again. HTH

[atomic sagebrush]

Is it true that aci-jel always lowers ph or can it make ph rise in some?

Anecdotally, that's what some people report. I'm not 100% sure how reliable that is, in terms of, up inside the Fallopian tubes where the CM is being generated and where the egg is fertilized anyway, if anything we do in the vagina itself makes much of a difference.

It makes sense that possibly, when the small amount of CM that comes out of our cervix (the only part we actually ever get to test) touches the superlow pH of the Acijel, it somehow reacts and the pH rises in an attempt to help get you pregnant. CM is designed to be as sperm-friendly as possible. I'm not convinced that this rise in pH is necessarily a bad thing, nor does it mean that ALL the CM everywhere throughout the reproductive tract is the same in pH.

[atomic sagebrush]

I edited my essay a bit in light of some new info - you CAN use a fingertip of Replens 1 hour before BD IF your pH is above 5, and it seems to me that RepHresh is better for cutoff, while Replens is better for o+12.

[atomic sagebrush]

And a big HECK YEAH to Sylk. That stuff sounds great. Just use it as you would a lube for DTD.

[babydust]

great great info! Thanks so much atomic :). And I agree, I think sylk is great. I used it as a lube when we dtd. I also think it's great to do a finger sylk just before you make your attempt if you are doing something like lime TBM. It could actually help you to get pregnant.

So atomic, what do you think of this: doing a replens finger 5 min. after attempt and every 30 min. for the next four hours is a good idea whether you are doing a cut off or O + 12 though because the first 4 hours is crucial. We don't know how long rephresh takes to lower pH and replens does it quickly. So I would think that for the first 4 hour use replens and then after that (if you are doing a cut off) try rephresh since the sperm are already in the cervical crypts. However, you said not to use rephresh and douche right? So for me many of us rephresh wouldn't be good to use 'cause if any ewcm crops up (which happens during O time) then lime douche needs to be used. This is the case for a cut off.

With O + 12, replens and lime douche would work great, I agree.

Aci jel actually raised my pH, but I have to try it out again. I've heard that this happens in some women

[atomic sagebrush]

By 4 hours around O time, the sperm is already out of your vagina and well on the way to the egg in the Fallopian tubes. I don't personally believe that what we do in the vagina hours and days later, has much effect at all on what happens in the Fallopian tube because our bodies are constantly producing more EWCM to help the sperm along. Otherwise the natural everyday pH of the vagina, which is 4.5, would affect our CM and not the other way around.

I personally feel that RepHresh is a better choice for cutoff because it lowers the pH of everything it touches to 4.5. Replens may act quickly but it contains pH buffers that raise pH to 4-5 anyway. Both products end up at a pH of 4-5 (this is straight from the company), that is what they were designed to do. The company even advises women to use RepHresh after sex to lower the pH of their husband's semen to the acidity of the healthy vagina and prevent flareups of yeast and BV. Since I don't know how long RepHresh takes to work, it may be minutes or hours and by that time sperm can be long gone if they "hear" or "smell" the egg calling to them, for people going for an O+12, Replens/Acijel seems to be better. RepHresh also shouldn't be used with lime douche because it reacts with things that are very low in pH to raise the pH.

[babydust]

yeah, I get it now. Rephresh is definitely the best bet. Great research!

For me though, with doing lime TBM, whenever we decide to sway again, I'm probably better off with the replens/aci jel/ lime douche combo.

But if I decide to drop the TBM, then it's rephresh all the way! :)

[atomic sagebrush]

yeah, I get it now. Rephresh is definitely the best bet. Great research!

For me though, with doing lime TBM, whenever we decide to sway again, I'm probably better off with the replens/aci jel/ lime douche combo.

But if I decide to drop the TBM, then it's rephresh all the way! :) IF you do cutoff! If you're going for O+12 or BD through O, probably best to stick with Replens/Acijel/Sylk.

[babydust]

cool, thanx again! Love the new info :).

[Jojogirl]

ok...so....sylk if i dtd everyday through o?? as a lube?

[atomic sagebrush]

ok...so....sylk if i dtd everyday through o?? as a lube?

I think that would be a good choice WITH an antihistamine!!!

[Jojogirl]

I think that would be a good choice WITH an antihistamine!!!

For sure!

[Kazzz]

Supposedly, Acijel is far and away the best for swaying pink. Unlike RepHresh/Replens, it was designed to sway.

I have more research to do on Acijel and also Sylk which some have used to great success. I wish I could clone myself!!

It does sound like it Acijel now available again. It was impossible to come by for some time there.



Hi atomic so my attempt was last night right after first positive opk both cheapie stick and solid smiley on Clearblue my question is what is my chance of conception? I used half an applicator of acijel 30mins before our attempt I'm hoping this is ok because I got a positive opk so timing is good and I had ewcm and we didn't do any frequency stuff just the one attempt my ph was 5.5 this morning still with some ewcm. Have other woman conceived like this? I did read 1 lady used a whole tube 30 mins before but then she had a miscarriage. I'm also on clomid so mite of popped out two eggs upping my chances.

[atomic sagebrush]

I can't tell anyone what their chances are, that's just beyond my ability to know.

People do get pregnant when using the jellies, it just add depends on how many swimmers get through.

[atomic sagebrush]

I would not use Acijel after this month since you're on Clomid though as it may lower odds of conception too much.

[Kazzz]

I would not use Acijel after this month since you're on Clomid though as it may lower odds of conception too much.


Thanks atomic
Yeah I agree I'm not going to use the jels anymore. But if I do I'll use a dot of it like 5 hours before or something maybe use none. I'm really hoping I've conceived this time I'm scared because I'm over the diet I'm struggling to stick to it and I'm worried my diew will be not so great over the next 4 weeks. Does clomid reduce your chances of conception?


Also daylight saving stopped day before ovulation and now I can't see ovulation on my chart because my temps aren't accurate because of daylight savings changing an my temps look lower then they should maybe I'll add my chart for you to look at? Our attempt was at a very good time this month so I just hope it works before I give up then conceive another boy like alot of woman end up doing.

[atomic sagebrush]

Over time Clomid can cut some people's chances (if they had a poor lining and no CM) but most people it BOOSTS their chances!

Can you tell me what you're struggling with on diet?? Many times when people are having trouble, it's because they're being way too strict and I may be able to help you loosen up and stick to it.

Yes please post your chart for me. Happy to look at it.

The key to not having a boy after you give up, is not giving up LOL. I have tons of tricks and strategies where we OVER TIME up odds of conception little by little and so you end up getting pregnant still doing lots of stuff to sway. This is why I want the jellies to go now. Not "just a dot 5 hours before BD", I want it to go away. Because what all too often happens is that people keep doing things like the jellies, which don't work and cut odds of conception (and even if it did sway, a dot 5 hours before is not going to sway anyway, so you cut odds of conception for nothing!) and then after a few months they are like "ok this sucks, I am quitting". It's so much better to relax bit by bit over time rather than keep doing everything only to give up!

[Kazzz]

Over time Clomid can cut some people's chances (if they had a poor lining and no CM) but most people it BOOSTS their chances!

Can you tell me what you're struggling with on diet?? Many times when people are having trouble, it's because they're being way too strict and I may be able to help you loosen up and stick to it.

Yes please post your chart for me. Happy to look at it.

The key to not having a boy after you give up, is not giving up LOL. I have tons of tricks and strategies where we OVER TIME up odds of conception little by little and so you end up getting pregnant still doing lots of stuff to sway. This is why I want the jellies to go now. Not "just a dot 5 hours before BD", I want it to go away. Because what all too often happens is that people keep doing things like the jellies, which don't work and cut odds of conception (and even if it did sway, a dot 5 hours before is not going to sway anyway, so you cut odds of conception for nothing!) and then after a few months they are like "ok this sucks, I am quitting". It's so much better to relax bit by bit over time rather than keep doing everything only to give up!




First off thank you so much for all your help so far and offering to help me more. I've heard people say that you just sell diets and don't have any real proof and are just winging it and making money along the way but I know this isn't true at all I've stuck up for you and I've never met you. I know you know what your talking about this something you've studied for years and I've watch from a distant as your marrowed it down from millions of stats and research. I can only imagine the sleepless nights and the toll this has taken on you but also the pure pleasure of helping peoples dreams come true. If their was a sway degree you would absolutely have one. With all your studying and knowledge your in my eyes the best in the world you've seen more data and stats then any doctor, scientist or other professional. Your a professional with skills and knowledge absolutely you should charge a fee for that! Your offering a service and I'm guessing a personalised plan is gold standard. But your not just for money your heart an soul is in this your a human being, your a mum. You care about other mums and I'm guessing you love what you do. Just wanted to get that off my chest I hate it when people say stuff about you or your service since I've been around watching your work for years. My heart goes out to you and on behalf of all mums successful sways or not we thank you for being you.



Now to the brain hurting stuff. I'm 99% sure I ovulated cd16 from all my normal signs and I normally just KNOW plus my first pos opk was at MIDNIGHT cd15 so I couldn't of ovulated cd15. Next pos opk was cd16 in the am both pos opks were both solid smileys and cheapie opks. My major temp rise on cd16 I believe was because I went to sleep at 3am and only got 4 hours sleep I woke up feeling like absolute s### and wasn't surprised my temp went crazy. Secondly daylight savings ended cd14 early am so technically my temps cd14 onwards were being taken an hour earlier then normal because of the clocks changes an so I would of been getting up earlier to take my temp an our temps are lower the earlier we take them and higher the later we take them. So maybe all my temps should be slightly higher from cd14 onwards and if I adjusted them fam mode on fertility friend would confirm ovulation. I hate not have ovulation confirmation on fam mode but advanced mode shows ovulation cd15 but that's not possible it's only saying that because of my off temp on cd16. Then there's my glow app that agrees with me and puts ovulation at cd16 I know glow is less accurate but it's on my side this time. Also I get temp dips either the day before ovulation or the day of ovulation last cycle my dip was the day before ovulation. Ok so here's all three charts see what you think. Thank you a million xx

[Kazzz]

I can't tell anyone what their chances are, that's just beyond my ability to know.

People do get pregnant when using the jellies, it just add depends on how many swimmers get through.




Haha OK so don't worry to much about my chart rant it's not very important I'm pretty sure I ovulated cd16 and if I delete cd16 temp fam mode and all other modes put O at cd16 ok diet major stress right now about this so here goes my day looks like this

Black coffee for breakfast

Lunch at 12-1
White bread sandwich with light Philadelphia or light cottage cheese with lettuce and cucumber, a hand full or 2 of twisties the bluebird brand chips. And 1 rice wafer/rice cake not sure what they are called were you are. And another black coffee. I'm then satisfied.

Dinner 5-6
stir fry vegetables with a wholemeal pitta pocket with some Philadelphia or cottage cheese

Or

stir fry vegetables on white rice

Or

Salad with lite balsamic salad dressing and fried whole mushrooms instead of meat

But the problem is the wine I have 2 glasses while cooking dinner then I eat dinner an the wine just makes me get the munchies sooo bad I'll have a full second serving if dinner or white bread an butter biscuits cheese anything I can her my hands on. I truly believe its a combination of my calories overall being to low and the wine rapidly dropping my blood sugar cause me to get the munchies.


Even when I wasn't swaying alcohol would make me feel weak and shake i would crave like I'm dying I would sit on the kitchen floor and eat till it stopped also sometimes this would happen without drinking alcohol first I think my blood sugers mite just be in the low range since having my second son. Sometimes I think I'm diabetic but I've had a full blood test since he was born an no red flags.


So should I drop the wine? This is my instincts and what else can I eat I'm scared to eat the wrong things or two much. I'm also taking Diazepam which I heard sways I take it for anxiety I realised that was causing hunger too so I started taking it before bed which sorted that out. The main problem is the wine makes me feel ravenous and I rampage the cupboards I've done it since I ovulated it will also be a combination of being over the diet an thinking well if I'm pregnant it won't matter I'm relaxing a bit but I mostly blame the wine I'm fine all day full content motivated then straight after the wine all hell breaks loose.

[atomic sagebrush]

LOL, well, those people are sillyheads because I help about 10x more people for free than for money, and it's only because people who can give me money are generous that I can help anyone, otherwise I'd have to go to work and I wouldn't be able to help anyone. :) The truth is, I'd actually prefer to do it for free as I could have a day or a week off once in a while, rather than working 360 days a year (which none of my critics do, of course.) I appreciate you sticking up for me! :heart:

I agree based on everything you say that it was likely CD 16, but without an ultrasound or blood test we just can't know for sure. There can always be an abnormally low temp or an abnormally high temp in isolation, and that's why we have to use the pattern as a whole to tell us if O has occurred. I do agree you ovulated, and it was SOMEWHERE in the CD 15 (late) or CD 16 range, I just can't pin it down any more than that, I'm sorry!

[atomic sagebrush]

I think you should drop the alcohol and see how it goes. I also sometimes find alcohol gives me low blood sugar and it also makes inhibitions low so then you have less willpower not to give in.

BUT that having been said I do think you're likely not eating enough, particularly of fat. You're eating a lot of refined carbs that burn off quick, and with lower protein and low fat, it's all combined making your blood sugar drop (which is good) but so far that you can't stick to the diet.

So the first change I'd make is have you eat full fat cheese instead of the light versions, and then have a small amount of oil (if you weren't using oil to stir fry) and maybe a bit of chicken, nuts or tofu in your stir fry. Instead of using the light salad dressing, use full fat, and have maybe a bit of chicken, some nuts, some beans, or hard boiled egg on your salad. It doesn't have to be a HUGE amount, but I think you need a little more calories, protein, but particularly fat to help keep satiated on the diet.

I don't like you mixing the diazepam with alcohol anyway so I think definitely the alcohol needs to go. :) Let's set ourselves up to succeed!

[Kazzz]

I think you should drop the alcohol and see how it goes. I also sometimes find alcohol gives me low blood sugar and it also makes inhibitions low so then you have less willpower not to give in.

BUT that having been said I do think you're likely not eating enough, particularly of fat. You're eating a lot of refined carbs that burn off quick, and with lower protein and low fat, it's all combined making your blood sugar drop (which is good) but so far that you can't stick to the diet.

So the first change I'd make is have you eat full fat cheese instead of the light versions, and then have a small amount of oil (if you weren't using oil to stir fry) and maybe a bit of chicken, nuts or tofu in your stir fry. Instead of using the light salad dressing, use full fat, and have maybe a bit of chicken, some nuts, some beans, or hard boiled egg on your salad. It doesn't have to be a HUGE amount, but I think you need a little more calories, protein, but particularly fat to help keep satiated on the diet.

I don't like you mixing the diazepam with alcohol anyway so I think definitely the alcohol needs to go. :) Let's set ourselves up to succeed!



Thank you now I'm excited lol thanks for giving me permission to eat a little cheese and a whole egg lol after reading one of your members threads on LE meal ideals I'm think omg these lady's are eating proper meals. Do you think me having rice with dinner ever night is OK? I tried it last night about a cup of cooked white rice broccoli carrots and fried whole mushrooms an I was able to have the two standard glasses of wine and didn't get hungry afterwards!!! I was shocked I think the main problem with wine and dinner is if dinner isn't soild enough it tips me into starving mode. Like say I have a salad with low fat dressing an two glasses of wine the food just isn't enough to prevent the hunger. Rice really sorts me out because its high carb an fulling I guess. So can I have rice with dinner every night? Or is white rice for dinner an white bread for lunch too much carbs? I can swap out the sandwich for lunch with something else dinner is always more important to me. And I'm planning on pre cooking a big batch of a squash bake and freeze it in meal size batches. Is all veg ok if eating a standard serving per day? Like squash? And is couscous OK not to much protein? And is tinned Spaghetti in tomatoe sauce ok? The Spaghetti is just for a last min quick lunch.

To sum up the madness

Daily rice ok? With or without sandwich for lunch?
All veg ok in normal portions?
Couscous OK?
Tin Spaghetti OK?

This is life changing lol I feel like I'm getting special privileges silly I know but 11 weeks of what I've been doing anyone would feel relieved.

[Kazzz]

I think you should drop the alcohol and see how it goes. I also sometimes find alcohol gives me low blood sugar and it also makes inhibitions low so then you have less willpower not to give in.

BUT that having been said I do think you're likely not eating enough, particularly of fat. You're eating a lot of refined carbs that burn off quick, and with lower protein and low fat, it's all combined making your blood sugar drop (which is good) but so far that you can't stick to the diet.

So the first change I'd make is have you eat full fat cheese instead of the light versions, and then have a small amount of oil (if you weren't using oil to stir fry) and maybe a bit of chicken, nuts or tofu in your stir fry. Instead of using the light salad dressing, use full fat, and have maybe a bit of chicken, some nuts, some beans, or hard boiled egg on your salad. It doesn't have to be a HUGE amount, but I think you need a little more calories, protein, but particularly fat to help keep satiated on the diet.

I don't like you mixing the diazepam with alcohol anyway so I think definitely the alcohol needs to go. :) Let's set ourselves up to succeed!



Also do you not believe in ph at all? It seems to be that ph has a bit of backing by experts all over. Would you disagree? Also that goes hand and hand with a big O so do you say big O is ok? Thanks so much for your time

[atomic sagebrush]

I do not believe in pH at all. After seeing thousands of people both here and on InGender getting pH opposites going every way (boy to girl, girl to boy, successes that should have been opposites, and opposites that should have been successes) I no longer believe there is anything to it. I got a BOY with a pH of 4.5-5 that never went up till after I was already pregnant, and science also indicates it cannot possibly work since all sperm thrive in pH of 7-8 and not low OR high. I have a full investigation of it here: https://www.genderdreaming.com/forum/gender-swaying-general-discussion/11684-ph-pickle.html

It's fine to use pH stuff if you'd like, but we tracked our results on the jellies and douches and then had them analyzed by a statistician, and they did nothing. The same number of people got boys and girls without them.

Most of the swaying "experts" are either selling something, or are trying to just incorporate everything they ever read because they don't want to have to fight with people about what works the way I do. A lot of them don't care if people "go on till menopause" not getting pregnant (and they even say this on some sway sites). But I feel when people go on not conceiving, so many of them just give up, that it makes no sense to continue doing things that don't work and cut odds of conception, because it's actually preventing people from getting their desired gender (because they give up on swaying totally, including the things that work). So I would take that with a grain of salt. :)

I have my not-safe-for-work essay about the Big O here: https://www.genderdreaming.com/forum/gender-swaying-general-discussion/27912-o-no-orgasms-swaying.html We have done tons of polls and stuff on orgasms and it's been a mixed bag. Overall I feel like we see couples who have boys are more sexual as a general rule, but it is probably that the hormones both make these couples more sexed up and also more likely to have boys, and NOT that having female orgasms is causing more boys to be conceived. It is probably just a side effect of the hormone differences.

[atomic sagebrush]

Yes I made this diet to be easy to stick to, because NO ONE is eating the way that the girl diets supposedly claim and yet they're getting girls. It just cannot be you have to eat nothing but rice cakes and cranberries.

Rice every night is a-ok. Absolutely. It's all about the limits, not the foods.

ANYONE would be hungry after a salad with low fat dressing and some wine. That is tailor made for your blood sugar to crash.

If you're sticking in the limits and eating a set amount of protein and fat, you can't be getting too many carbs. No such thing. You can have a sandwich on the same day as the rice. You don't even need to count carbs.

All veg is fine within limits. Low carb veg are free and unlimited, have as much as you want, no need to count. Higher carb veg like the sweet-tasting winter squash (and fruit), you count calories only, not fat and protein

Couscous is fine within limits. The canned spaghetti is fine too.

It's not special privileges. This is how everyone on here is eating and we are getting great results for pink.

[Kazzz]

Yes I made this diet to be easy to stick to, because NO ONE is eating the way that the girl diets supposedly claim and yet they're getting girls. It just cannot be you have to eat nothing but rice cakes and cranberries.

Rice every night is a-ok. Absolutely. It's all about the limits, not the foods.

ANYONE would be hungry after a salad with low fat dressing and some wine. That is tailor made for your blood sugar to crash.

If you're sticking in the limits and eating a set amount of protein and fat, you can't be getting too many carbs. No such thing. You can have a sandwich on the same day as the rice. You don't even need to count carbs.

All veg is fine within limits. Low carb veg are free and unlimited, have as much as you want, no need to count. Higher carb veg like the sweet-tasting winter squash (and fruit), you count calories only, not fat and protein

Couscous is fine within limits. The canned spaghetti is fine too.

It's not special privileges. This is how everyone on here is eating and we are getting great results for pink.


Wow thank you the big O thing makes sence.
The ph is hard to drop but I dropped the cutoff so I'm trying lol those two things have been deeply embedded in swayers minds for so many years even though you may have dropped them some time ago people still hold onto them. So male and female sperm act the same way ie freeze, die slow down what ever in jels the same? And the same male female ratio if any would survive? There wouldn't be more female withstand the jels and so a few more of them make it through? Also does white pasta work the same as white bread and white rice I don't need to count it? So I can have pasta for dinner or rice for dinner every night without stress?

[Kazzz]

Wow thank you the big O thing makes sence.
The ph is hard to drop but I dropped the cutoff so I'm trying lol those two things have been deeply embedded in swayers minds for so many years even though you may have dropped them some time ago people still hold onto them. So male and female sperm act the same way ie freeze, die slow down what ever in jels the same? And the same male female ratio if any would survive? There wouldn't be more female withstand the jels and so a few more of them make it through? Also does white pasta work the same as white bread and white rice I don't need to count it? So I can have pasta for dinner or rice for dinner every night without stress?






SORRY!! Ignore all the sperm questions lol I went an read the link you added. So just the pasta question and something else I'm still wondering is why do men with low sperm counts father more girls? If he's not included then it comes down to us as woman been given a lower amount of sperm from our dh so we as woman should still try to lower sperm numbers one way or another? Do you think abstaining FR or CR should still have a place in the sway plan?

[atomic sagebrush]

It's fine if you want to give them a whirl - they don't seem to sway blue - but it's just that I want you guys to drop those things before adding attempts, and LONG before giving up on diet and exercise in frustration. The issue is not that people want to try them, I'm totally fine with that, the issue is people going on so long doing things that do not work and cut odds of conception, only to then get frustrated, give up, and basically sway blue just to conceive. It makes more sense (and our results are better than ever before with this strategy) to drop things that don't work, keep the things that do, and hopefully aim at getting pregnant in a timely fashion without the stress and frustration of going on months/years with sways that render you unable to conceive

Yep. High and low pH both kill sperm. The X sperm DO NOT live longer, they are not stronger or more healthy, they die just as fast as Y sperm. All those notions about pH just don't seem to hold any water based on how the reproductive tract actually works.

You need to count the calories in white bread, pasta, and rice, but that's it. There is no limit on carbs. You limit calories, and then you have to have a certain amount of protein and fat. This will keep carbs under control as a matter of course. You can eat pasta or rice for dinner every day without stress.

We don't know why sperm numbers seem to play a role. No one studies this stuff leaving us to piece it all together using a small amount of research. I personally believe that because sperm can communicate (they really can communicate somehow, organizing themselves so some of them are always awake and other are dormant waiting for the egg) that something about fewer sperm present makes the X "wake up" and the Y "stay asleep". But that's just a theory. It may be that more sperm give the Y an advantage at penetrating the eggshell, or some other thing entirely.

The reason I have de-emphasized abstain, FR and especailly CFR is that they didn't work, cut odds of conception hugely,husbands got really annoyed about doing them, they made everyone super control freaky (which almost certainly sways blue more than any of those things ever could) and finally, much of the time they didn't work out. Hubby would have a wet dream and his abstain would be ruined, or he'd clean his own pipes and mess up the abstain. Something would happen with the FR and he'd miss a day or there would be a sick baby and BD couldn't happen - no FR. And CFR, men could not keep up with it, kept missing releases and many times what people CALLED CFR was nothing of the kind anyway. So it was basically a lot of trouble for something that did not work, and I'm not a fan of people going on and on with sway tactics that make everyone miserable, don't work, and probably even undermine sways (since the longer you go on not conceiving, the more likely you are to give up diet and exercise)

Hope that makes sense!

[Kazzz]

It's fine if you want to give them a whirl - they don't seem to sway blue - but it's just that I want you guys to drop those things before adding attempts, and LONG before giving up on diet and exercise in frustration. The issue is not that people want to try them, I'm totally fine with that, the issue is people going on so long doing things that do not work and cut odds of conception, only to then get frustrated, give up, and basically sway blue just to conceive. It makes more sense (and our results are better than ever before with this strategy) to drop things that don't work, keep the things that do, and hopefully aim at getting pregnant in a timely fashion without the stress and frustration of going on months/years with sways that render you unable to conceive

Yep. High and low pH both kill sperm. The X sperm DO NOT live longer, they are not stronger or more healthy, they die just as fast as Y sperm. All those notions about pH just don't seem to hold any water based on how the reproductive tract actually works.

You need to count the calories in white bread, pasta, and rice, but that's it. There is no limit on carbs. You limit calories, and then you have to have a certain amount of protein and fat. This will keep carbs under control as a matter of course. You can eat pasta or rice for dinner every day without stress.

We don't know why sperm numbers seem to play a role. No one studies this stuff leaving us to piece it all together using a small amount of research. I personally believe that because sperm can communicate (they really can communicate somehow, organizing themselves so some of them are always awake and other are dormant waiting for the egg) that something about fewer sperm present makes the X "wake up" and the Y "stay asleep". But that's just a theory. It may be that more sperm give the Y an advantage at penetrating the eggshell, or some other thing entirely.

The reason I have de-emphasized abstain, FR and especailly CFR is that they didn't work, cut odds of conception hugely,husbands got really annoyed about doing them, they made everyone super control freaky (which almost certainly sways blue more than any of those things ever could) and finally, much of the time they didn't work out. Hubby would have a wet dream and his abstain would be ruined, or he'd clean his own pipes and mess up the abstain. Something would happen with the FR and he'd miss a day or there would be a sick baby and BD couldn't happen - no FR. And CFR, men could not keep up with it, kept missing releases and many times what people CALLED CFR was nothing of the kind anyway. So it was basically a lot of trouble for something that did not work, and I'm not a fan of people going on and on with sway tactics that make everyone miserable, don't work, and probably even undermine sways (since the longer you go on not conceiving, the more likely you are to give up diet and exercise)

Hope that makes sense!



Yes thank you that all makes sence. So it doesn't matter if dh releases the night before attempt or the morning of attempt or 5 days before attempt? As long as its not an actual attempt. I'm worried that say my dh releases 2 days before attempt then on attempt his sperm numbers would be high? Does high count sway blue? I'm trying to sort an time any of his releases for next cycle. Also I think the clomid mite of delayed ovulation this cycle we did e4d but that e4d fell on the day after ovulation. Who knows when I ovulated fam says cd18 advanced says cd16 here's my chart today set in fam mode.

[atomic sagebrush]

Yes that's what we are finding. It doesn't matter for pink when hubby releases (although releases too soon before attempt may cut odds of conception and make it so he can't perform). It does not seem to sway aat all for pink (though blue swayers need to avoid having their husbands release too much on his own prior to attempts)

While we believe a higher sperm count does sway blue, the release patterns just aren't making a difference.

I think that if youre planning out when he's releasing to that extent it may end up doing more harm than good as you end up so control freaky that it sways stronger than frequency ever could.

I can''t tell by your chart when O occurred. It all depends on whether it was the high temp or the lower one right after that is the outlier. I would have you move your attempts a day closer together next cycle and start the e4d sooner, more like CD 15 and 18 rather than 19 (not those days per se but that's how you should count the days)
'

[Kazzz]

Yes that's what we are finding. It doesn't matter for pink when hubby releases (although releases too soon before attempt may cut odds of conception and make it so he can't perform). It does not seem to sway aat all for pink (though blue swayers need to avoid having their husbands release too much on his own prior to attempts)

While we believe a higher sperm count does sway blue, the release patterns just aren't making a difference.

I think that if youre planning out when he's releasing to that extent it may end up doing more harm than good as you end up so control freaky that it sways stronger than frequency ever could.

I can''t tell by your chart when O occurred. It all depends on whether it was the high temp or the lower one right after that is the outlier. I would have you move your attempts a day closer together next cycle and start the e4d sooner, more like CD 15 and 18 rather than 19 (not those days per se but that's how you should count the days)
'



Thanks the reason I ask about his release is because we only dtd once a week both busy an don't need it all the time so I'm thinking if we do that then we're accidentally doing a 7 days abstain? Should I have him release 2 or 3 days before our attempt so that he has fresher swimmers? I don't try to so e4d this cycle I actually thought I had already ovulated on cd16 so it just happened lol. I was thinking if I get my af this cycle I'll get dh to release 2-3 days before attempt? No jels and do our attempt about 10hrs after first pos opk not straight after like this cycle that way if clomid delays ovulation we're still in with a chance? Does this all sound ok? And we shouldn't use sylk?

[atomic sagebrush]

Ok I think you told me your husband's age but I can't find it now.

If your husband is 35 or younger it's ok to do 7 days of abstain before having one attempt. (although since you're on the Clomid it's probably best to have him clean the pipes once in addition to that to boost odds of conception) So my advice would be since you're on the Clomid to do exactly that - clean the pipes once mid-week. This does not have to be a perfect number of days, just once in between.

Please have your attempt at the first positive OPK. You can get pregnant by an attempt earlier than ideal, but not later, and attempting 10 hours after positive OPK (unless it's necessary due to it being nighttime or whatever) may mean you're too late. While it's fine to wait till that evening (that is what everyone does, have attempt the night of the pos OPK, not right away as that would usually be in daytime) you don't have to wait a set amount of time and it doesn't guard against delayed ovulation. When I say "start doing e4d to protect against delayed O" I mean ovulating days and days after the first positive, not a few hours later. So I still want you to go ahead and have e4d sex after the one attempt if it is possible because you might ovulate later than you think on the Clomid and if you stop having sex, you'll miss the whole month!

I wouldn't use Sylk as it hasn't worked and really cut odds of conception hugely.

[Kazzz]

Ok I think you told me your husband's age but I can't find it now.

If your husband is 35 or younger it's ok to do 7 days of abstain before having one attempt. (although since you're on the Clomid it's probably best to have him clean the pipes once in addition to that to boost odds of conception) So my advice would be since you're on the Clomid to do exactly that - clean the pipes once mid-week. This does not have to be a perfect number of days, just once in between.

Please have your attempt at the first positive OPK. You can get pregnant by an attempt earlier than ideal, but not later, and attempting 10 hours after positive OPK (unless it's necessary due to it being nighttime or whatever) may mean you're too late. While it's fine to wait till that evening (that is what everyone does, have attempt the night of the pos OPK, not right away as that would usually be in daytime) you don't have to wait a set amount of time and it doesn't guard against delayed ovulation. When I say "start doing e4d to protect against delayed O" I mean ovulating days and days after the first positive, not a few hours later. So I still want you to go ahead and have e4d sex after the one attempt if it is possible because you might ovulate later than you think on the Clomid and if you stop having sex, you'll miss the whole month!

I wouldn't use Sylk as it hasn't worked and really cut odds of conception hugely.



Ok thank you so much. I have hope in next cycle since I'll be taking away all the jels. I think that's what cut our odds this cycle and last. I mean without the jels I mite of conceived already both months we did our attempt 3days before ovulated so dtd cd14 pm then ovulated cd17 then next month dtd cd15 pm ovulated cd18 I should of had a good chance each of those months but I blame the jels. My dh is 41 so I'll get him to release a few days before. I'm over the diet this next cycle has to work.

Plan:
Clomid cd3-7
Dh release few days before
No jels
No ph testing (thank god)
One attempt at first pos opk
Second attempt e4d after first attempt
No zertec? My cm doesn't matter?
No big O just incase
J&d?

And that's everything?

[Kazzz]

Sorry also we don't have to worry about potassium and sodium do we? I'm trying to watch both but just made a pot of minestrone soup and it says that it's very high in potassium.

[atomic sagebrush]

:agree: great! 3 days before O is pretty slim chance of conception too though so both jels and 3 day cutoff can really cut odds.

Have you been on Clomid for 3 months now?

I want to be sure you're going to do the e4d in the every 72 hour pattern not the 96 hour pattern, and then additionally I want you to keep going with that e4d pattern for at least a couple times after you think you ovulated.

No Zyrtec. It hasn't worked and really cuts odds of conception hugely, particularly on Clomid where your CM will already be drier.

I would not have you do J and D till 15 minutes after. If this is your third month on Clomid or more, then please stay laying down 30 minutes.

[atomic sagebrush]

:agree: great! 3 days before O is pretty slim chance of conception too though so both jels and 3 day cutoff can really cut odds.

Have you been on Clomid for 3 months now?

I want to be sure you're going to do the e4d in the every 72 hour pattern not the 96 hour pattern, and then additionally I want you to keep going with that e4d pattern for at least a couple times after you think you ovulated.

No Zyrtec. It hasn't worked and really cuts odds of conception hugely, particularly on Clomid where your CM will already be drier.

I would not have you do J and D till 15 minutes after. If this is your third month on Clomid or more, then please stay laying down 30 minutes.

[atomic sagebrush]

Sorry also we don't have to worry about potassium and sodium do we? I'm trying to watch both but just made a pot of minestrone soup and it says that it's very high in potassium.

The mineral diets have not panned out at all. Practically all of us have given up on that stuff and our results are higher than ever. I got my girl eating tons of sodium after limiting it with my 4th boy.

[Kazzz]

:agree: great! 3 days before O is pretty slim chance of conception too though so both jels and 3 day cutoff can really cut odds.

Have you been on Clomid for 3 months now?

I want to be sure you're going to do the e4d in the every 72 hour pattern not the 96 hour pattern, and then additionally I want you to keep going with that e4d pattern for at least a couple times after you think you ovulated.

No Zyrtec. It hasn't worked and really cuts odds of conception hugely, particularly on Clomid where your CM will already be drier.

I would not have you do J and D till 15 minutes after. If this is your third month on Clomid or more, then please stay laying down 30 minutes.



Hey, yea the first cut off I did but the second one I dtd at first opk but must not of ovulated till later because fertility friend moved my ovulation day based on temps so opks an temp are a few days apart this cycle. If I didn't use jels these cycles I probably would of had better chances.

um no this coming cycle will be my second round of clomid? Still just lay for 15mins?

So attempt then skip 2 night's then attempt again? Its every 3rd night? It should be renamed e3n lol. I really want to stick to the one attempt since my diet hasn't been great. I think my chances of conception this cycle will be so much higher anyway without zertec, jels, cutoff, and stress of ph. Since I've not been great on the diet on and off over the last 2 weeks I'll try to do just the one attempt.

When i say my diet has not been great I mean I've over eaten my diet food had 2 servings or extra bread a few lollies. I haven't been like eating pizza chocolate full fat dairy meat nuts or anything high fat protein or nutrients. Just extra of my diet food. That should be ok ay? And I'll put 110% effort over the next two an a half weeks so leading up to ovulation.

I'm still having a black coffee for breakfast and black coffee for afternoon snack no snacking at all. Fasting from dinner till lunchtime. My diet overall is still so different then it was when I conceived my boys. Tell me I haven't ruined everything 😂 I keep thinking I have just because the first 8 weeks I was overly strict and under eating now that I've eaten extra for dinner here an there or had some lollies for dessert 1 night I feel like I'm going into boy territory. Plus I feel hungry during the tww every month.

[atomic sagebrush]

Yes just stick to the 15 minutes.

When we say "every 3 days" and "every 4 days" people got very confused and we had people telling us they did one thing when they did another entirely. The difference between 3 and 4 depends on how you count the days - with the every 72 hour pattern, you can count it Monday (1) Tuesday (2) Wednesday (3) and Thursday (4) and still consider that every 4 days. So for the interest of clarity we do "every 4 days" in the every 72 or every 96 hour pattern.

Every 72 hours is still one attempt. This is because you would have attempts O-5 and O-2 (which is one attempt since the O-5 has no chance) or O-4 and O-1 (and again, the O-4 is very low chance of conception, 1 in 1000), or O-3 and O Day. O-3 and O Day STILL is only one attempt because if there was anything left from the O-3 it would already have fertilized the egg before the O Day shot could capacitate and get to the egg, and if there isn't anything left from O-3 the O Day ejaculation would then have a shot at it. We have excellent results with e4d.

I'm fine with your diet, I barely even consider that cheating. Please don't try to get super strict now though. When people do that they end up often delaying or even stopping ovulation. Just try to stick in the limits from here on in. Don't cut way back trying to compensate, because usually what will happen is that you end up getting so hungry you binge eat and end up not doing well on diet anyway. Aim at the attainable goal both for the sake of sticking to diet, but also to prevent your ovulation from going missing.

During the 2WW it's very normal to have a surge of hunger. That's because our hormones are such that we get a little hungrier and even have somewhat lower self-control as well! (strange but true, you may even find as I do that you overspend on shopping at that part of the cycle)

[Kazzz]

Yes just stick to the 15 minutes.

When we say "every 3 days" and "every 4 days" people got very confused and we had people telling us they did one thing when they did another entirely. The difference between 3 and 4 depends on how you count the days - with the every 72 hour pattern, you can count it Monday (1) Tuesday (2) Wednesday (3) and Thursday (4) and still consider that every 4 days. So for the interest of clarity we do "every 4 days" in the every 72 or every 96 hour pattern.

Every 72 hours is still one attempt. This is because you would have attempts O-5 and O-2 (which is one attempt since the O-5 has no chance) or O-4 and O-1 (and again, the O-4 is very low chance of conception, 1 in 1000), or O-3 and O Day. O-3 and O Day STILL is only one attempt because if there was anything left from the O-3 it would already have fertilized the egg before the O Day shot could capacitate and get to the egg, and if there isn't anything left from O-3 the O Day ejaculation would then have a shot at it. We have excellent results with e4d.

I'm fine with your diet, I barely even consider that cheating. Please don't try to get super strict now though. When people do that they end up often delaying or even stopping ovulation. Just try to stick in the limits from here on in. Don't cut way back trying to compensate, because usually what will happen is that you end up getting so hungry you binge eat and end up not doing well on diet anyway. Aim at the attainable goal both for the sake of sticking to diet, but also to prevent your ovulation from going missing.

During the 2WW it's very normal to have a surge of hunger. That's because our hormones are such that we get a little hungrier and even have somewhat lower self-control as well! (strange but true, you may even find as I do that you overspend on shopping at that part of the cycle)



Ok thanks I'm a little worried because I haven't counted anything ie fat because that would probably cause me more problems all I know is that what I'm doing is completely unnatural for me and I'm losing weight. Im a born snacker and always had a boy breakfast of oats or eggs on toast so skipping breakfast an no snacks is a huge change for me. So I'm hoping this is enough of a guide.

So should I dtd say cd12 cd15 and cd18. My normal ovulation day is cd16 but last cycle it was cd17 an this cycle it looks to be cd18 according to temps or cd16 according to opks ewcm an cramps. Our last attempts were cd14 an then this cycle cd15 and cd19 so I'm hoping to do cd16 next cycle. I like the idea of waiting for the first positive opk then doing attempt it takes the stress out of it and is exciting haha

Yes I never thought about that I most certainly do over spend during the tww haha never notice till you mentioned it.

[atomic sagebrush]

Many times when people are not tracking, they end up cutting back TOO far. My wanting you guys to track is far less about the sake of your sway and far more about making sure you're getting enough nutrients to get and stay pregnant! So do err on the side of eating enough when you're not tracking.

The e4d protects you against early or late ovulation and also if you don't get a positive OPK. So that's why I'm recommending it. But if you want to give it another try with one attempt that's fine too since you've only been on Clomid a shorter time than I thought.

[Kazzz]

Many times when people are not tracking, they end up cutting back TOO far. My wanting you guys to track is far less about the sake of your sway and far more about making sure you're getting enough nutrients to get and stay pregnant! So do err on the side of eating enough when you're not tracking.

The e4d protects you against early or late ovulation and also if you don't get a positive OPK. So that's why I'm recommending it. But if you want to give it another try with one attempt that's fine too since you've only been on Clomid a shorter time than I thought.



Thank you. If it comes to to it I mite do another attempt so I'll do at first pos opk then should I use e4d or e3d sorry I forgot the hours. So say I get my pos opk on cd16 I will dtd cd16 then again cd19? So two nights skipped? Is that what you would advise? Is that e4ds?

[atomic sagebrush]

Yes, that's e4d because people count CD 16 (attempt) as Day 1, CD 17 (skip) as Day 2, CD 18 (skip) as Day 3, and then CD 19 (attempt) as Day 4. I know it seems confusing but it's actually the easiest way we have come up with to count the days.

That s e4d in the 72 hour pattern, and it's good chance of conception and possibly lower chance of pink (although we've gotten very good results with it - 14 of 18 people got girls, which is still a small sample size but it's been working for us so far.

Or you can stretch it a day and do the e4d in the every 96 hour pattern. This is worse odds of conception but possibly higher rates of pink (but like I said we are getting such good result with e4d anyway it's probably not much higher rates of pink than the 72 hour pattern is.

I often have people do just what you're suggesting - have the one attempt at first positive then go to e4d in the 72 hour pattern to guard against delayed ovulation. That's fne for this month but next month on the Clomid I do hope you go to e4d all month.

[Kazzz]

Yes, that's e4d because people count CD 16 (attempt) as Day 1, CD 17 (skip) as Day 2, CD 18 (skip) as Day 3, and then CD 19 (attempt) as Day 4. I know it seems confusing but it's actually the easiest way we have come up with to count the days.

That s e4d in the 72 hour pattern, and it's good chance of conception and possibly lower chance of pink (although we've gotten very good results with it - 14 of 18 people got girls, which is still a small sample size but it's been working for us so far.

Or you can stretch it a day and do the e4d in the every 96 hour pattern. This is worse odds of conception but possibly higher rates of pink (but like I said we are getting such good result with e4d anyway it's probably not much higher rates of pink than the 72 hour pattern is.

I often have people do just what you're suggesting - have the one attempt at first positive then go to e4d in the 72 hour pattern to guard against delayed ovulation. That's fne for this month but next month on the Clomid I do hope you go to e4d all month.



Ok yeah I was wondering if its e4d from end of af till af again. Is that how it's ment to be done? What if I do cd13 cd16 and cd19 that would pretty much cover the whole cycle.

[atomic sagebrush]

If you're fairly good at knowing if you've ovulated or not then it's ok to taper off after ovulation for most people. But some people think they ovulated and then didn't. It's best to err on the side of having more attempts and covering more bases.

I would really urge you to start earlier than CD 13 though. A whole lot of people who generally O later have missed the month by waiting too long to start. You want that first attempt to be before you could ovulate. You can ovulate CD 12-13, this happens all the time, even if it doesn't usually happen for you!

So I would suggest CD 10, 13, 16, 19, 22 and even 25 possibly. You'll have much better coverage that way.

[Kazzz]

If you're fairly good at knowing if you've ovulated or not then it's ok to taper off after ovulation for most people. But some people think they ovulated and then didn't. It's best to err on the side of having more attempts and covering more bases.

I would really urge you to start earlier than CD 13 though. A whole lot of people who generally O later have missed the month by waiting too long to start. You want that first attempt to be before you could ovulate. You can ovulate CD 12-13, this happens all the time, even if it doesn't usually happen for you!

So I would suggest CD 10, 13, 16, 19, 22 and even 25 possibly. You'll have much better coverage that way.



Cool thanks I'll definitely do that next cycle because that's my last clomid cycle but this cycle I'm going to do our attempt at first solid smiley without any jels and a release a few days before. I think our chances should be much higher this month.


I wonder if its just me that gave us our 2 boys because my dh smokes pot and tobacco and drinks regularly he doesn't really eat healthy either he's got a pot belly and doesn't have a huge sex drive. I'm wondering if he mite actually be more girl friendly in nature but I was always so set for boys. I've always been so healthy. I don't smoke anything hardly ever drink and I normally eat really well I'm health conscious. So really hoping we are both set for girls now. 🤞

[Kazzz]

If you're fairly good at knowing if you've ovulated or not then it's ok to taper off after ovulation for most people. But some people think they ovulated and then didn't. It's best to err on the side of having more attempts and covering more bases.

I would really urge you to start earlier than CD 13 though. A whole lot of people who generally O later have missed the month by waiting too long to start. You want that first attempt to be before you could ovulate. You can ovulate CD 12-13, this happens all the time, even if it doesn't usually happen for you!

So I would suggest CD 10, 13, 16, 19, 22 and even 25 possibly. You'll have much better coverage that way.



On another note my af pretty much stopped after my second clomid pill last cycle and now this cycle my af was reduced before I even took the first clomid pill. Now yesterday was day 2 of the pill and again my af has all but stopped. Just wondering if that's normal and doesn't mean I can't get pregnant because clomid is reducing my lining to much?

[atomic sagebrush]

Many of us see shorter lighter periods while swaying (even without the Clomid.) This link is more about the time of day the period arrives but there's info about the flow as well https://genderdreaming.com/forum/gender-swaying-general-discussion/58219-when-did-you-get-af-what-genders-do-you-have.html

While Clomid can affect lining negatively it usually takes many months (like 5-6) What you're describing sounds to me like a normal change we'd expect to see when swaying. BE sure you're eating enough fat and calories.

[Kazzz]

Many of us see shorter lighter periods while swaying (even without the Clomid.) This link is more about the time of day the period arrives but there's info about the flow as well https://genderdreaming.com/forum/gender-swaying-general-discussion/58219-when-did-you-get-af-what-genders-do-you-have.html

While Clomid can affect lining negatively it usually takes many months (like 5-6) What you're describing sounds to me like a normal change we'd expect to see when swaying. BE sure you're eating enough fat and calories.



OK that's good to know it's normal. Thank you so much for all your help. I'll hopefully update you with a bfp 🤞

[Kazzz]

I would not use Acijel after this month since you're on Clomid though as it may lower odds of conception too much.

ok completely ignore my last message we did an attempt cd8 and last night cd12 it's now cd13 am and i got my solid smiley way early. So should we bd in 72hrs aswel or leave it at that? Also I had a big O about 30mins after our attempt is that ok? It doesn't sway blue?

[atomic sagebrush]

Augh, so sorry I only just now saw this.

If you're doing e4d just stick with the e4d even past when you think you've ovulated. Sometimes our first OPK is false positive and we will ovulate later on, so by continuing to have attempts past that point, we guard against delayed ovulation.

RE big O, the conventional wisdom is that they sway blue, but we have done lots of polls and surveys on it and gotten about 50-50 results. (I had one when I got my DD and not with some of my boys!) While I do think overall we see a trend where the boy parents are more sexual than the girl parents tend to be, I don't think it's because of the Big O swaying in and of itself. I think it's more that the hormones that make couples more revved up also sway blue, if that makes any sense.

[Kazzz]

Augh, so sorry I only just now saw this.

If you're doing e4d just stick with the e4d even past when you think you've ovulated. Sometimes our first OPK is false positive and we will ovulate later on, so by continuing to have attempts past that point, we guard against delayed ovulation.

RE big O, the conventional wisdom is that they sway blue, but we have done lots of polls and surveys on it and gotten about 50-50 results. (I had one when I got my DD and not with some of my boys!) While I do think overall we see a trend where the boy parents are more sexual than the girl parents tend to be, I don't think it's because of the Big O swaying in and of itself. I think it's more that the hormones that make couples more revved up also sway blue, if that makes any sense.





Help!!!
So here's my chart we dtd cd8 and cd12 got solid smiley cd13 am cd13 an cd14 I had cramps now it's cd15 and I just got ewcm with a streak of blood in it and my temp didn't go above the rest this am so I'm assuming ovulation is today what do you think and should we definitely attempt again tonight? That will be the e4d 72hr I really don't want to miss this cycle. Or do you think I have a good shot from attempt cd12 if ovulation is today cd15? Please read an reply fast it's 10am cd15 need to know your advice before tonight. Thank you so much here's my chart.

[atomic sagebrush]

When in doubt, attempt, because especially into the afternoon/evening I'm not always on here to reply. I would strongly have suggested you attempt, I still want you to have an attempt today even if you didn't yesterday.

If at all possible I'd start temping earlier in the month next month. It's easier to see the pattern with at least a few more temps than that!

An attempt CD 12 for CD 15 ovulation is not great odds (which is why in the every 72 pattern you'd have another attempt night of CD 15). If you didn't, please DO!

[Kazzz]

When in doubt, attempt, because especially into the afternoon/evening I'm not always on here to reply. I would strongly have suggested you attempt, I still want you to have an attempt today even if you didn't yesterday.

If at all possible I'd start temping earlier in the month next month. It's easier to see the pattern with at least a few more temps than that!

An attempt CD 12 for CD 15 ovulation is not great odds (which is why in the every 72 pattern you'd have another attempt night of CD 15). If you didn't, please DO!


Yay!!!! I went with my gut and I thought you would say attempt again so we did last night cd15 and today is cd16 and my temp is up. Here's todays chart. I got blood streaked ewcm yesterday before we bd so ovulation mite of been yesterday. What do you think? First attempt I had but O like 20mins after attempt and last night no big O at all.

[atomic sagebrush]

OMGosh phew I'm so relieved!! My heart just sank when I read that!

The blood streaked CM I find misleading. Right at O your cervix is really soft, and can be easily injured from even random things like going #2 or coughing. it can make a small owie that then hits the EWCM and it's super noticeable. So you can never be too sure if you're really experiencing bleeding from an egg being released (which is usually pink or brown blood that takes some time to come out, often happening the day after O) or from the cervix.

No matter what you were covered!! I'm so happy you had that attempt!

[Kazzz]

OMGosh phew I'm so relieved!! My heart just sank when I read that!

The blood streaked CM I find misleading. Right at O your cervix is really soft, and can be easily injured from even random things like going #2 or coughing. it can make a small owie that then hits the EWCM and it's super noticeable. So you can never be too sure if you're really experiencing bleeding from an egg being released (which is usually pink or brown blood that takes some time to come out, often happening the day after O) or from the cervix.

No matter what you were covered!! I'm so happy you had that attempt!

Me too!!!! Thank you so much. When do you think I ovulated? And does my sway look strong? I think my temp will stay up and then fertility friend will put ovulation at cd15. My gut tells me cd14

[Kazzz]

[QUOTE=Kazzz;1050494]Me too!!!! Thank you so much. When do you think I ovulated? And does my sway look strong? I think my temp will stay up and then fertility friend will put ovulation at cd15. My gut tells me cd14 it's definitely egg rupture spotting it's like red hair inside the length of the ewcm. I've had it a few times with ovulation good fertile looking stretchy clear ewcm that I think took a day to get down and out. I had two days of major cramps cd13 and cd14.

[Kazzz]

OMGosh phew I'm so relieved!! My heart just sank when I read that!

The blood streaked CM I find misleading. Right at O your cervix is really soft, and can be easily injured from even random things like going #2 or coughing. it can make a small owie that then hits the EWCM and it's super noticeable. So you can never be too sure if you're really experiencing bleeding from an egg being released (which is usually pink or brown blood that takes some time to come out, often happening the day after O) or from the cervix.

No matter what you were covered!! I'm so happy you had that attempt!


Here today's charts. My intuition says I ovulated cd14 and both charts agree but don't you need 3 higher temps higher then the last 6 to confirm ovulation and then ovulated is set at the last low temp? Or can it rise slow. When do you think I ovulated? And do I have a good chance of bfp if I ovulated cd14?

[rahaye_raha]

Yes that's what we are finding. It doesn't matter for pink when hubby releases (although releases too soon before attempt may cut odds of conception and make it so he can't perform). It does not seem to sway aat all for pink (though blue swayers need to avoid having their husbands release too much on his own prior to attempts)

While we believe a higher sperm count does sway blue, the release patterns just aren't making a difference.

I think that if youre planning out when he's releasing to that extent it may end up doing more harm than good as you end up so control freaky that it sways stronger than frequency ever could.

I can''t tell by your chart when O occurred. It all depends on whether it was the high temp or the lower one right after that is the outlier. I would have you move your attempts a day closer together next cycle and start the e4d sooner, more like CD 15 and 18 rather than 19 (not those days per se but that's how you should count the days)
'

What about blue swayer atomic?
How many days should be bewteen the last release and first dating if we are supposed to do 3 attempts in the fertile window?

I was thinking to start making hubby release every 2-3 days , 1 month prior to our attempt so that his body triggers to produce more and fresher sperm. What do you think about this strategy?

[Kazzz]

Here today's charts. My intuition says I ovulated cd14 and both charts agree but don't you need 3 higher temps higher then the last 6 to confirm ovulation and then ovulated is set at the last low temp? Or can it rise slow. When do you think I ovulated? And do I have a good chance of bfp if I ovulated cd14?

Cd9 temp was an accident I didn't temp cd9 and have removed it

[Kazzz]

What about blue swayer atomic?
How many days should be bewteen the last release and first dating if we are supposed to do 3 attempts in the fertile window?

I was thinking to start making hubby release every 2-3 days , 1 month prior to our attempt so that his body triggers to produce more and fresher sperm. What do you think about this strategy?

I think it's every second day. But boy diet is very important in my case (2 boys) diet was the main factor

[rahaye_raha]

Do you mean HE diet?

[atomic sagebrush]

I don't know when you ovulated, all I can say is that I think you DID. We can't pin down O to the day with certainty.

I think I explained this before but bright red blood is likely from the cervix. This isn't for sure and it doesn't mean you didn't ovulate. Because O spotting can take time to find its way out it's often brownish or pink. The reason red bleeding coincides with ovulation is because your cervix is very soft then and can be easily injured, even by everyday things like having bowel movements or checking CM.

I think you guys had a great sway and are in with as good a chance as anyone! No guarantee of course but I"d be happy with it!

[atomic sagebrush]

Do you mean HE diet?

Many of us with all boys are on a blue friendly diet (lots of healthy/fortified food, eating regularly, eating meat and lots of animal fat) without being on the full HE Diet. Very few people swayed with their first few kids!

[atomic sagebrush]

Yes, you need 3 days of high temps to confirm ovulation has occurred, but even then we just can't know for sure what specific day. This is because temps can be lower than expected, OR higher than expected on any given day, and it's only when we see the overall pattern we know for sure.

Every month that passes people even with perfectly timed attempts have about 20-30% chance average of BFP so that is what I'd count on. I know it seems lower than you might expect but that's just how it works, unfortunately, even with people trying like bunnies.

[atomic sagebrush]

What about blue swayer atomic?
How many days should be bewteen the last release and first dating if we are supposed to do 3 attempts in the fertile window?

I was thinking to start making hubby release every 2-3 days , 1 month prior to our attempt so that his body triggers to produce more and fresher sperm. What do you think about this strategy?

It does not matter how long between the last release and first attempt is. It takes 7-10 days of DAILY release, every day, skipping no days at all, for sperm count to be depleted and sway pink (and even then, that tactic does not work anyway!)

Have your husband start doing regular release every 2-4 days right away :agree: A month before is good, 2 months is even better!! He will start making more sperm in this pattern, and then by the time it's time to attempt he will be making bigger and better batches for you guys to have your attempts with. :)

[atomic sagebrush]

Cd9 temp was an accident I didn't temp cd9 and have removed it

I would like to see you start temping earlier next month if at all possible (of course hopefully we won't need to!) It makes it easier for me to detect the pattern that way.