Does SMEP sway?

[Mommasita]

How does SMEP play into the whole frequency theory? Is there any data suggesting more boys vs. girls or vice versa from SMEP?

[BeadinMom]

What's SMEP?

[Mommasita]

Sperm Meets Egg Plan. You BD every second day from CD 8 to when you get a + OPK. When you get your + OPK you BD once a day for two days, then you skip one day, and BD one last time. Many women find it a useful timing plan to get pregnant.

[zanacal]

The frequency in isolation of anything else would sway blue as it's good for maximising sperm count. I would imagine if there was any data of boys vs girls while doing the plan it would be difficult to read too much in to it if people were doing it because they were struggling to get pregnant and perhaps had lower fertility to begin with and were therefore more likely to conceive a girl.

[LolaInLove]

I think it sways blue, but ITA with Zan about the lower fertility overall= girls. I would say you could do a modified SMEP by just bding a heck of a lot more (like the girl sway FR thing, which I don't know a lot about!). The point of SMEP is to increase sperm count and make sure you hit your ovulation, though, which I do think would sway blue in regularly fertile folks.

[Zivic-Bubac]

There was a thread about SMEP on IG and the conclusion was it sways pink big time.

[LolaInLove]

There was a thread about SMEP on IG and the conclusion was it sways pink big time.

Really? But on IG, they thought you needed to bd only on O-4 and then O and anything else swayed pink, remember? ZB, my DH's reproductive urologist told us that dtd every other day raises sperm count the most of any pattern and that is what he wants us to do. I guess the bding every day over O might be a bit pink-friendly, but the uro said that even daily raises count significantly, and raises the number of good sperm too. What he did not recommend was twice a day or more.

If I were swaying pink and wanted to do a SMEP "modification" (and Atomic will be much more informative with this, but from my experience and knowledge about sperm at this point....), I would have DH release twice a day for like 6 days before a + on the opk, then I would dtd twice a day for 3 more days. That is pretty much frequent release though. SMEP is really not designed to be a swaying method, but just a get pregnant immediately method, therefore, I think the idea is to raise sperm count, so that is why I think it sways blue.

[atomic sagebrush]

How does SMEP play into the whole frequency theory? Is there any data suggesting more boys vs. girls or vice versa from SMEP?

The problem with the SMEP stats, is that a lot of people who use SMEP, are having trouble TTC to begin with. Many things that cause fertility issues, sway pink (low sperm count, poor sperm quality, hostile CM, low estrogen) and also a lot of women who just had m/c also use SMEP (first 1-2 cycles after miscarriage also sway pink) so the group of people who do SMEP are to some extent preselected towards having girls. The stats are probably skewed to be more pink friendly than that pattern would be for a couple of normal/high fertility.

For a typical couple with normal/high fertility, I believe SMEP would sway blue because DTD every other day is ideal for upping sperm count and health, and lots of healthy sperm seems to yield more boy conceptions for reasons we don't understand.

[atomic sagebrush]

There was a thread about SMEP on IG and the conclusion was it sways pink big time.

Not to take a potshot at IG but they tend to only look at raw data without understanding why the numbers are the way they are. It doesn't matter if the numbers do appear more pink friendly than blue friendly, because the original sample (the people who choose to do SMEP) are already preselected to have more girls to begin with. For statistics to be accurate you need a large group across the entire population. The typical couple is NOT the same as the group who generally uses SMEP, and I believe doing SMEP will be more likely to produce boys in the population as a whole.

[BeadinMom]

The problem with the SMEP stats, is that a lot of people who use SMEP, are having trouble TTC to begin with. Many things that cause fertility issues, sway pink (low sperm count, poor sperm quality, hostile CM, low estrogen) and also a lot of women who just had m/c also use SMEP (first 1-2 cycles after miscarriage also sway pink) so the group of people who do SMEP are to some extent preselected towards having girls. The stats are probably skewed to be more pink friendly than that pattern would be for a couple of normal/high fertility.

For a typical couple with normal/high fertility, I believe SMEP would sway blue because DTD every other day is ideal for upping sperm count and health, and lots of healthy sperm seems to yield more boy conceptions for reasons we don't understand.

Certainly worked that way for me! We were going for FR with DS3, but missed a day or so inbetween a few times & didn't think it would make a difference. I had NO IDEA that sperm count came back up that fast...LOL...with my diet & our BD routine its no wonder we have boys.

[atomic sagebrush]

Really? But on IG, they thought you needed to bd only on O-4 and then O and anything else swayed pink, remember? ZB, my DH's reproductive urologist told us that dtd every other day raises sperm count the most of any pattern and that is what he wants us to do. I guess the bding every day over O might be a bit pink-friendly, but the uro said that even daily raises count significantly, and raises the number of good sperm too. What he did not recommend was twice a day or more.

If I were swaying pink and wanted to do a SMEP "modification" (and Atomic will be much more informative with this, but from my experience and knowledge about sperm at this point....), I would have DH release twice a day for like 6 days before a + on the opk, then I would dtd twice a day for 3 more days. That is pretty much frequent release though. SMEP is really not designed to be a swaying method, but just a get pregnant immediately method, therefore, I think the idea is to raise sperm count, so that is why I think it sways blue.

Exactly Lola - IG looks at numbers rather than reasons and then they decide, "well if more boys are conceived on O-4 (true) and O Day (not true, but Dr. Shettles said so) then we need to only BD on those days and no others". But the reality is that the reason why more boys are conceived on O-4 has nothing to do with any mojo of that day, it's because highly fertile couples with lots of sperm and good CM, are much more likely to be able to conceive from BD on that day AND are more likely to conceive boys. Couples with low sperm count, poor sperm quality, hostile CM, are a lot less likely to be able to conceive from BD with these long cutoffs AND are more likely to conceive girls. It's sheer coincidence.

Timing doesn't sway, sperm count and CM quality do, so if you do things that affect sperm count and quality, and also make your CM more hostile, you'll have more girls and this is true regardless of when you DTD.

I totally agree that the best frequency both for conception and for blue is DTD every 2-4 days with a few attempts in your fertile window. Even DTD 3 days in a row over O, is NOT going to sway pink...people have to BD with FR every day for 7-10 days without fail to sway pink.

Superfrequent release does also sway pink but the problem is that a)some guys can't do it that much and b)it may cut down odds of pg too far.

[Mommasita]

My problem is that DH can't handle FR. He tanks out after 5 nights in a row! What has worked for us in the past has been to DTD every second day from CD 8 until about 5 days before O. Then, we BD every day until O. The month we got pregnant with DS we BD'd every day from O-5 to O. When we got pregnant with DD we tried every day from O-5 to O, but DH couldn't perform on O so we skipped O and DTD on O-1. But, when we got pregnant with DS I was eating a high-sodium diet, using Preseed and taking EPO. When I got pregnant with DD I was taking calcium and cranberry, and eating a low-sodium diet.

I don't know how to handle the whole frequency thing this time, knowing that DH gets worn out with every night.

[LolaInLove]

Well, he doesn't necessarily have to bd those times, it can be just "releasing" meaning he doesn't have to wear himself out with vigorous sex....if you know what I mean. But it seems like diet made a difference for you! I would concentrate more on that and not worry about the timing thing too much. Timing really doesn't sway, and it seems like you bded every day for both of your kids anyway. You know you are getting pregnant from that pattern, though, so I would do what you did for your DD if that is what you want again (meaning diet and supps).

[atomic sagebrush]

My problem is that DH can't handle FR. He tanks out after 5 nights in a row! What has worked for us in the past has been to DTD every second day from CD 8 until about 5 days before O. Then, we BD every day until O. The month we got pregnant with DS we BD'd every day from O-5 to O. When we got pregnant with DD we tried every day from O-5 to O, but DH couldn't perform on O so we skipped O and DTD on O-1. But, when we got pregnant with DS I was eating a high-sodium diet, using Preseed and taking EPO. When I got pregnant with DD I was taking calcium and cranberry, and eating a low-sodium diet.

I don't know how to handle the whole frequency thing this time, knowing that DH gets worn out with every night.

I gotcha. Have you looked into the compressed FR? You don't have to go the whole hog with the CFR, you could just have him release once in the morning and BD at night for 1-2 days, or do a hurry up CFR.

Please don't stress about the frequency stuff too much. I really don't think it sways that much compared with diet. If you got a DD doing SMEP, do SMEP this time too!

You guys also have the option of forgetting the days that are not at all likely to produce conception (O-5, O-4, O-3, and O day) and then just focusing your efforts on O-2 and O-1 because those two days are WAY more likely to get you pg than all the other days combined! Sometimes you gotta BD smarter, not harder LOL.