EXPERTS (hee hee) if you are on the older side and TTC a Girl would you......

[Aprincessforme]

DTD everyday after AF (but release outside) and only have dh release inside once on a 2 day cut-off or DTD everyday starting On CD 10 straight through O with releasing inside every time or abstain for 7 days and DTD only once with a 2 day cut-off or abstain for 7 days and do 0+12 and a 2 day-cut-off but releasing once before the 0+12 then do the 0+12 or abstain then do a 3 day cut-off and a 2 day cut-off. Hmmmmmm........which one would be the best possible balance of getting a girl and getting pregnant?????? This also is along with diet of course and I have had creamy cm my last few cycles and no ewcm so I need to use lube....maybe canola oil??????

[dramabird]

Hi Princess.

You reference yourself being on the older side ... may I ask your husband's age? That will factor in whether or not you'd want to go the abstaining route, probably (as in, if he's older than 35, you might not want to choose abstaining).

I guess my concern is that several of the strategies you've listed here (only one attempt, doing a cut-off or doing O+12) will make it tougher to get pg. That may or may not be a problem depending on how long you think you can stay on the diet and how impatient you are overall to conceive.

Is frequent release an option for your DH? I like the idea of maybe having him do FR starting on CD3 and then adding on your second option (DTD everyday starting on CD10 straight through O). That will have some sperm-lowering strategy (with the FR), but having a number of attempts will increase your chance of actually conceiving. If it were me (and, of course, it's different for each of us), I wouldn't hassle with O+12, as it makes pg really tough, esp. in moms that might be somewhat older. Have you had a chance to read Atomic's essays about O+12?:
http://genderdreaming.com/forum/ttc-girl-best-practices/1291-o-12-part-1-history-o-12-a.html
http://genderdreaming.com/forum/ttc-girl-best-practices/1292-o-12-part-2-how-do-o-12-a.html
http://genderdreaming.com/forum/ttc-girl-best-practices/1293-o-12-part-3-advantages-disadvantages-o-12-a.html

You'll likely find that you'll establish a strategy you like ... and then still end up tweaking as you go along. I think that's how we all do it (except for those lucky gals who succeed in the first month).

Good luck!

[Aprincessforme]

Thank you for your response. My dh and I are both over 35. He has a high sperm count I had him tested recently because I was swaying ( I just told the dr we were having problems getting pregnant). He has a high sperm count the dr said and great motility (is that what its called....mobility, I don't know). It was like in the 90's and the dr said that they like them over 50%. The dr told me that its more likely the egg quality and that I need to remember that the % every mont for any women is pretty low when you think about it. I think he said 20%. I never had a problem getting pregnant before, although I did not tell him I was swaying and that I was dtd only once! So, I am scared to do fr release because with my boys we dtd a lot during my fertile window and I got boys. Now, I know FR is different than FR bding, so would you still do FR everyday then and then just do the attempts bding straight through O. So, can you give me an example??? Like on CD 3-11 release dh only (NO bding) and then on CD 12, 13 14 (4 days DTD and release inside me) or dtd and only release on CD 12 and CD 14??? I am so confused???

[dramabird]

It can definitely be confusing! There is a difference between FR and frequent BD -- my understanding is that frequent BD can not only raise your pH (which ~might~ be bad for a pink sway), but it can also send a signal to your body that a steady mate is present, which can sway blue.

Some ladies wait to get their attempts in until they see a positive OPK. Others (as I did) just pick a relatively arbitrary day (CD10, CD12, etc., depending on when their usual ovulation day is) and then BD through O.

So I would suggest at least seven days of FR, at least once daily (my DH alternated once a day vs. twice a day, to average three releases every 48 hours) and THEN get your attempts in. After a week or more of FR, your DH's sperm count should be lowered before anything gets introduced to your reproductive tract ... whereas, most likely, when you conceived your boys, your DTD was starting from square one, so "all guns blazing," as it were. :) So the first example you gave ("Like on CD 3-11 release dh only (NO bding) and then on CD 12, 13 14 (4 days DTD and release inside me)"), seems a very valid strategy.

One thing to remember is that frequency (and timing even less so) seem to have a pretty minor impact on sway. So women tend to go so hardcore on trying to get timing right that they go month after month with BFNs and then start loosening up on the diet, which seems to have a greater impact on swaying. And you also don't want to get yourself so stressed out about timing and frequency that you raise your testosterone levels, either.

So, personally, I like the idea of FR CD3-11 and then commencing with the BDing. :agree:

[Mochagirl]

Both dh and I are 37 going on 38, and here's what we did:

7 days of him releasing daily, then we started to dtd every day as soon as I started getting signs of O until I was sure it had come...or at least that was the plan and it was what we did for several months. But the month I got my BFP we had logistical problems because we were staying out of town. The stress of the upcoming trip also delayed O slightly for me. We ended up with 6 days of frequent release, then I panicked and thought O was coming, so we started our daily dtd. I think we dtd 6 days in a row, then stopped because I thought O had come, then O really ended up coming a day later, so in the end it was a 1 day cut-off.

Many on this site don't believe in timing - lots of women here have gotten their girl from dtd through O. Atomic Sagebrush, our resident expert, doesn't recommend abstaining for men over 35 because there are studies that suggest it could lead to a higher rate of birth defects. She also doesn't recommend O+12 because for women over 35 our egg is not likely to survive long enough to be fertilised. I know you said you don't want to do lots of BD, but what I would do in your situation is start dh doing fr every day sometime between CD1 and 3, then when you start to see a fade-in on your OPK start dtd every day until you know O happened. Alternatively, wait until your +OPK and dtd once - I think that's what Zanacal did, and she got her girl.

[atomic sagebrush]

answered via PM but please let me know if you need any additional help! :)

thanks Drama and Mocha, you guys rock.

[Aprincessforme]

OMG thank you ladies. Ok, so I am not confused here...... I should not abstain even if my dh has a high sperm count??? I had it checked and said we were having trouble getting pregnant and his count was high and his motility/mobility was in the 90's. That scares me a lot!! So, you are saying that I should have him release everyday lets say starting on cd3 - 11 but NOT dtd and then on cd12 and CD13 DTD and have him release inside me as well as CD 14????? That would be 12 days of releasing, so that will lower sperm count???? Or have him release 3-11 and only dtd once when +OPK and through O???? Confused.....I know!! What if he is NOT on diet???? Trying to not give him any red meat but he refuses!! He's back on cranberry and that is it!! I might sneak folic acid in there again but he is reluctant. I am on diet......eating crap...yogurt and rice cakes and white rice and pasta, veggies which I love....no red meat. A little chicken here and there in the 2ww but nothing substantial. I am just so scared my diet is not good enough. I have lost a few pounds but cannot afford to really drop too much. Then I will be un 100 lbs!!!

[Mochagirl]

Hopefully atomic will chime in again, but I don't think the risks of men over 35 abstaining have anything to do with sperm count.

As for when and how often to dtd - totally up to you! More times dtd give you a better chance of getting pregnant, but some women worry they 'll end up with too much sperm up there. Personally I felt that since I was doing so many other things to sway we could bd several times without ruining my sway, and for me it worked. Depending how quickly you want to get pregnant you could try just one attempt at O your first month and add more attempts the next month if you don't get your BFP.

[Aprincessforme]

I have already done 2 0+12 attempts and have been on this diet for a while and really cannot do it anymore. I also am getting too old to take a break:(( I know with my boys we dtd everyday in my fertile window BUT that was with releasing inside me. So, I was thinking have dh release 3-11 once a day 2 if he wants...hee hee and then on CD 12 DTD and CD 13 then nothing on cd 14 or have dh release CD 3-10 then DTD on cd 11 and CD 12 only and nothing on CD 13 or 14. Or would it be better to release from 3-10 and then DTD on CD 11 and on CD 13. What do you think. I am thinking that DH and I didn't really do FR the whole month but during the time we wanted to conceive it was on which possibly upped his count......I don't know though. I wanted one attempt but I know that the last few months, 1 attempt has not worked!!!! But maybe I should just have dh FR 3-12 then DTD when I get a +OPK and thats it!!!

[Mochagirl]

If I were only going to have 2 attempts and I normally O'd on CD 14, I think I'd dtd on CD 13 and 14, or possibly CD 12 and 13. I don't think you want more than a 1 day cut-off at most if you want to get pregnant quickly. Make sure if you do decide to skip a day DH still releases on that day or you'll be undoing all the hard work of FR.

[Aprincessforme]

Thanks Mocha!!! Ok so FR for DH CD 3-11, then DTD on CD 12 and 13. I have no cm only creamy lately for the last few cycles.....would you recommend lube or canola oil during those attempts??? So that would be a total of 11 days of dh releasing but only 2 inside of me. That lowers sperm count right?????

[Mochagirl]

Sylk is a great lube for TTC girl if you can get your hands in it. I don't think other lubes are recommended but hopefully atomic can help you there. DH and I just used saliva :oops:

And yes, your plan sounds like it will lower sperm count sufficiently.

[PolishPrincess]

I know this is not about me but thank you so much for asking this question and for the great responses...I am 35 and DH is 36 and I was just going to go for abstinance with one shot next week but MAYBE I should do FR with one try...i don't want to increase our chances of any B-defects...I just worry he can't finish that many times in a week...he never has....hmmm... thanks again this gave me a lot to think about!!!

[atomic sagebrush]

Sylk is a great lube for TTC girl if you can get your hands in it. I don't think other lubes are recommended but hopefully atomic can help you there. DH and I just used saliva :oops:

And yes, your plan sounds like it will lower sperm count sufficiently.

All lubes except Preseed and Conceive Plus (including, believe it or not, saliva!) are harmful to sperm and thus sway pink.

KY jelly just off the shelf at your drugstore will sway pink by killing sperm.

[atomic sagebrush]

I know this is not about me but thank you so much for asking this question and for the great responses...I am 35 and DH is 36 and I was just going to go for abstinance with one shot next week but MAYBE I should do FR with one try...i don't want to increase our chances of any B-defects...I just worry he can't finish that many times in a week...he never has....hmmm... thanks again this gave me a lot to think about!!!

Polish, you also have the option of doing a compressed FR or hurry-up FR if that would be easier.

[PolishPrincess]

Ok I am going back to that article to read that again...it's just hard because my husband is BARELY on board and I think he just is going to give me one to two tries each month...I think he wants to try but he wants to be able to tell people this is what I wanted and he was unknowing victim:shemademe:

[atomic sagebrush]

OMG thank you ladies. Ok, so I am not confused here...... I should not abstain even if my dh has a high sperm count??? I had it checked and said we were having trouble getting pregnant and his count was high and his motility/mobility was in the 90's. That scares me a lot!! So, you are saying that I should have him release everyday lets say starting on cd3 - 11 but NOT dtd and then on cd12 and CD13 DTD and have him release inside me as well as CD 14????? That would be 12 days of releasing, so that will lower sperm count???? Or have him release 3-11 and only dtd once when +OPK and through O???? Confused.....I know!! What if he is NOT on diet???? Trying to not give him any red meat but he refuses!! He's back on cranberry and that is it!! I might sneak folic acid in there again but he is reluctant. I am on diet......eating crap...yogurt and rice cakes and white rice and pasta, veggies which I love....no red meat. A little chicken here and there in the 2ww but nothing substantial. I am just so scared my diet is not good enough. I have lost a few pounds but cannot afford to really drop too much. Then I will be un 100 lbs!!!

My husband ate gobs of red meat when I was on the sway diet and we still got our DD. I weighed 123 lbs and only lost 3 lbs!

The risks of abstain have nothing to do with sperm count, they have to do with genetic damage that accumulates over a lifetime and can affect the process of cell division (one of your husband's XY cells divide and become 4 sperm cells, 2 X and 2 Y) The older you are, the more likely errors can creep into this process and abstain aggravates this because the damaged sperm accumulate and age themselves, plus the process of new sperm formation slows down, so you have less fresh sperm being made, more old sperm adding up, and also higher percentage of genetically damaged sperm (because fewer new sperm are being made and no sperm is being ejaculated.)

This is kinda hard to understand but imagine that every day 1 million of your husband's sperm that he's created are genetically damaged and 1 million ones that were originally good, have gotten old and icky and damaged. With 7 day's abstain, that adds up to 14 million damaged sperm sitting in there just waiting to be ejaculated. At the same time, the abstain lowers (dramatically, for some men) the number of new sperm created drops by a lot. Maybe on the first day after he starts his abstain he makes 20-40 million sperm but every day that passes he makes fewer and fewer sperm and by the time 7 days passes, he's only making 5 million a day. With 7 day's abstain, instead of making and releasing 140/280 million a day or every other day (some of which will be genetically damaged but it doesn't matter because so many are good), he's making a lot less, and of these, the genetically damaged ones and also the old and damaged ones, will be in the mix and adding up day by day.

The average ejaculation contains 100 million sperm, so if you're decreasing the numbers of fresh sperm coming in and increasing the numbers of bad sperm hanging around simltanously, as a result that 100 million is going to be a higher proportion of bad to good than if he was getting rid of the baddies every day and stimulating his body to keep making more. I hope that makes sense, it's hard to explain.

HE doesn't need folic acid - YOU need folic acid.

[dramabird]

All lubes ... (including, believe it or not, saliva!) are harmful to sperm and thus sway pink.

That's awesome, because it's exactly what we had to do! With my lack of significant cm and the necessity that I not get to "into" the bd (so as to not risk the big o), it could be pretty uncomfortable to get everything where it needed to be. And with dh psyching himself out so much already, any pain on my part could have caused Mr. Happy to get unhappy really fast -- and negating the attempt altogether. So the saliva was a necessary evil, even though I knew it could decrease odds of pg. I am quite happy about it now, though, with my bfp, since it sways pink. Yay, spit! :)

[auroara78]

Ok I am going back to that article to read that again...it's just hard because my husband is BARELY on board and I think he just is going to give me one to two tries each month...I think he wants to try but he wants to be able to tell people this is what I wanted and he was unknowing victim:shemademe:

Polish Princess, it is a known fact on these boards that my husband does not believe in swaying and the more I tried to push him to do things, the more he resisted and became disinterested in TTC. So I just had to stop talking to him about it, *seduce* him since he would not sway whatsoever, and even talking about it made him antsy and made his Mr. Happy very unhappy! LOL, the first month we tried swaying in Oct. I was still on IG and we attempted o+12 but he couldn't get it up because of all the pressure with *timing* so that was when I gave up on timing and just wanted to have sex near my O.

[Mochagirl]

My dh wasn't on board either. I did manage to get him to do fr, but I didn't tell him it was to deplete his sperm count since he would never have agreed to that. Instead I told him it would assure us he'd have 'fresh' sperm when we actually dtd so we'd have a greater chance of getting pregnant with a healthy baby. He only did it with a lot of help from me every night - he would never have done it on his own.

He didn't change his diet a bit, though, and didn't take any supplements. He didn't know about half of the things I did, like Rephresh, antihistamines, etc. - all he knew about was the diet since I couldn't exactly hide from him that I was eating completely different things than the rest of the family for 6 months. He doesn't believe in swaying at all...even after it got me my girl!

[Aprincessforme]

That's so awesome ladies!! Looks like we all have the same hubbies!! I approached my dh via text msg....I told him something dirty that I was gonna do when he got home....just because he is so not into this anymore!!! Then after I did what needed to be done.....I told him I was gonna make him happy everyday to release the stresses from running a business!! Well ,he didn't believe me of course and knew something was up my sleeve!! But, I didn't tell him the whole gist of it!!! I said that he needed to be relaxed for this and I wanted him to be as relaxed as possible. I threw a little more BS because if he is under pressure, well then its going all to HELL when O comes. I have to do this very smart this time and be very seductive and kinda dirty so he's onboard here!! I do give him cranberry because its one pill but when I was giving him more...he was like what is all this sh^%!!! So, I backed off and thought cranberry is good!! So, no lube then??? We do the spit thing also!! Hee hee...gross I know!! So, I should Not do that or is that ok to still do. I have no cm the last few months at all. Just creamy, so it makes me think the diet is working. I do drink a lot of CL during that time too!!! Should I buy KY Jelly Siilk E or just stick with the good ole spit????? I am doing 2 attempts so maybe spit is ok.

Just want to add: You ladies are so lucky!!!

[dramabird]

I say spit!! :) It's natural, readily available and won't interrupt the flow of things while you go get a tube of this or that. And as several of us can attest, it doesn't supress fertility tooooo much and prevent pg altogether. Yep, I guess I'm Team Spit. :)

[atomic sagebrush]

Heck, my husband barely even knew we were TTC! ;)

[atomic sagebrush]

if you need lube, you can use saliva or KY, or Sylk, or whatever works for you EXCEPT Preseed or Conceive Plus or egg white.