nub theory angle of the dangle more fixed form 11w+ hence more accurate?

[toomanyboys]

ok so i have been doing hte nub theory for over 6 years and always assumed that if you get a good nub shot once it is visible at 9 weeks plus you can venture a good guess about gender. now i have had a scan at 10.4 weeks and read in some other posts that scans less than 11 weeks and a few days are not accurate....
now if the nubs of both boy and girl is a protruding tubercule at the end of the bottom and one determines gender by the angle of the dangle rule....then why is a nub that is clearly visible at 10 weeks not anymore accurate than that at 12 weeks? has this something to do with the fact that the tubercule is flexible at that stage i.e. 11 weeks or less and can move from one angle to another and as the weeks progress i.e. form 10 weeks to 11.5 weeks.....the tubercule becomes more rigid and fixed into place based on the gender of that baby?...cause that will only explain to me why a nub seen at 10 weeks in whatever position is less accurate as the same nub at 12 weeks. cause in both stages the tubercule is still protruding.....and sticking out the same.....

can someone clarify this for me please as on pic shows my nub pretty flat and it was like that most of the time during the scan and i have seen that too at 8wand 5 days (i had a clear white line at the end of the bottom but was told it was too early then) and then i have another pic of the same scan and it looks like a 90 degree nub......sticking up......although i concentrated and i knew that at times the leg got in the way but if you see my boy nub pic it really looks like a perfect boy shot.

i have another third pic and the nub cannot really be seen but i see something of fork hiding behind the thigh....

i would be really curious as to why 11 weeks + is more accurate than less than 11 weeks....when at both times the nub is sticking out just the same....

so the question is....are nubs less than 11weeks flexible and those at 11week+

[nuthinbutpink]

This is what a 9-week fetus looks like-

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The body parts aren't even there yet so there is no way gender can be seen. It has a tail at this point.

At 10 weeks, the testicles or ovaries have not even formed yet, so there is no gender to be seen at that point.

Ten weeks-
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This is the study that talks about he angle of the dangle- baby2see did NOT come up with this!!

Study link-
http://www.fetalmedicine.com/fmf/1999_4.pdf

Here is the part you need to read-

The structural precursors of the external genitalia are present but are not sufficiently differentiated to make a clear distinction on examination of the genitalia until after 10 weeks of gestation. However, from 12 weeks, there are distinct changes in the structure of the urogenital sinus. A process of gender-specific changes takes place. In males, the urogenital sinus is replaced by the scrotal and urethral raphe; closure of the urogenital sinus takes place in a zip-like fashion starting from the caudal end of the embryo. This process, combined with elongation of the genital tubercle, gradually displaces the phallus in a rostral direction.In the female the urogenital sinus remains open and ultimately becomes the vestibule of the vagina. Significant differences in the rate of penile and clitoral growth become evident in the second trimester; the majority of prenatal
growth of the penis occurs after 14 weeks’ gestation at an almost linear rate.


In our study, 56% of male fetuses were wrongly assigned as female at 11 weeks; this
false-negative rate decreased to 3% at 12 weeks and 0% at 13 weeks. In contrast, only 5% of the female fetuses at 11 weeks were incorrectly assigned as male and this falsepositive rate was 0% at 12 and 13 weeks.

So, you have a much bigger chance of getting it wrong at 11 weeks by thinking it is a female when it is actually a male than thinking it is a male and it actually being a female. The "nub" does not rise until after 11 weeks and the closer you get to 13 weeks, the more accurate it is.

So, bottom line is 11 weeks (or ealier) is just not accurate for gender guessing. HTH

[toomanyboys]

awwww...thanks it does...thats fab...so although i have seen a flat nub it coul stil mean boy does that mean the pic with my boysihs nub is probably not even a nub?...so i am still at logger heads though cause my girly nub can still be a boy nub...and yet my boy nub can still be a girly nub...how annoying.....:(..it had to be me getting a dubious scan!!!GRUNT

[nuthinbutpink]

awwww...thanks it does...thats fab...so although i have seen a flat nub it coul stil mean boy...cause my girly nub can still be a boy nub- yes, a 56% chance at 11 weeks according to this paper- I have no idea what the % is earlier than 11 weeks- higher I imagine

[nuthinbutpink]

I had to lookup "rostral direction" and it means "towards the head or mouth"- so that is why it angles up 30 degrees or more.

[Hobbermittens]

Can I butt in? When they say 11 weeks, does that mean the entire 11th week, so say 11 wks 4 days or 11 ks 6 days still counts as 11 weeks?

[atomic sagebrush]

11 weeks-12 weeks is not reliable for gender at all. Scans done at 11 weeks are basically useless, even at 11 weeks 6 days.

12 weeks is more reliable and the later on you get towards 13 weeks, the more reliable.

13 weeks, getting pretty dang reliable at that point but still not perfect. (and this I can attest to because I've had 2 scans at 13+ weeks and both were obvious for gender, 1 b, 1 g, even tho the tech would not verify gender either time and I didn't know anything about nubs or dangles at all when I had them done.)

By the time 14 weeks arrives, the penis is growing at a linear rate so it starts to get very hard to miss.

[toomanyboys]

that is helpful i will then plan to get my NT scan at around 13 weeks.....i do want to make sure that that date is also good or best for the NT. what is the peak time to get an NT scan...meainig the best time ever to get a most highly reliable accurate reading...???thats when i wll book it for then....

[toomanyboys]

look what i found...i am not sure if this is a real life fetus or a model but i am beginning to see why 10.5 weeks can be so not reliable...if this is how all fetuses at 11 weeks look like.....WARNING it looks a bit GRAPHIC and REAL
Fetus 10 - 12 weeks - a photo on Flickriver (http://www.flickriver.com/photos/lunarcaustic/5229381679/)

awhat gender would you make out of this baby or is this what both boys and girls look like....is the crease running from the anal to the tubercule the rostral direction they are talking about? can gender be somewhat determined form this fetus....?

[coocoobananas]

Oh gawd! For some reason I can't look at fetuses when I am in the nauseated phase! I'll just continue to look at cartoon images!! Lol

[nuthinbutpink]

Can I butt in? When they say 11 weeks, does that mean the entire 11th week, so say 11 wks 4 days or 11 ks 6 days still counts as 11 weeks?

I believe so, yes. Obviously accuracy goes up as you grow but that is the way I read it.

[nuthinbutpink]

look what i found...i am not sure if this is a real life fetus or a model but i am beginning to see why 10.5 weeks can be so not reliable...if this is how all fetuses at 11 weeks look like.....WARNING it looks a bit GRAPHIC and REAL
Fetus 10 - 12 weeks - a photo on Flickriver (http://www.flickriver.com/photos/lunarcaustic/5229381679/)

awhat gender would you make out of this baby or is this what both boys and girls look like....is the crease running from the anal to the tubercule the rostral direction they are talking about? can gender be somewhat determined form this fetus....?

There is neither labia not scrotum so no, cannot tell from that image.

[nuthinbutpink]

that is helpful i will then plan to get my NT scan at around 13 weeks.....i do want to make sure that that date is also good or best for the NT. what is the peak time to get an NT scan...meainig the best time ever to get a most highly reliable accurate reading...???thats when i wll book it for then....

I scheduled mine for 13 + 1 because I wanted a good nub shot and I did get one. My dates were exact because of IVF. I would try for anything in the 13 week range. My potty shot was obvious at that gestation too.

[atomic sagebrush]

That is what both boys and girls look like.

And even if it wasn't, even if there was some tiny clue to be gleaned, you must realize that the resolution in an ultrasound photo is absolutely nothing like in that photo and you simply can't tell from ultrasound at 10-11 weeks and at 12 only if you're extremely lucky.

[toomanyboys]

That is what both boys and girls look like.

And even if it wasn't, even if there was some tiny clue to be gleaned, you must realize that the resolution in an ultrasound photo is absolutely nothing like in that photo and you simply can't tell from ultrasound at 10-11 weeks and at 12 only if you're extremely lucky.

that's what i thought.....if both look like this at 11 weeks then it could go eaither way right?....i ust have to bide time now for 2 weeks. i was told by the private scanning company (NHS not doing NT scans at the moment but working on it appearantly!!!) and they told me anywhere between 11.5weeks-13.5weeks. so i will have mine on a saturday 2 weeks from now.YIKES....
i just don;t know what to think....i went through my boy's baby pic's yesterday just to get my head round the idea that i may have another one those little peanuts...:)....it is just i spend so much time for the last 6 years since DS3 obsessing this idea that i wanted girls....when i had my DD it was complete shock...and i felt time went too quickly and i wanted to use my beautiful things for another one and experience it all over again becasue i have to say having a DD was absolutely delightful form baby to todler to now.. that i had forgotten how fun it also was to raise a boy baby as well....i just hope that whatever god gives me now i will just appreciate and enjoy...i just will have to make the extra effort to look and like boy things i suppose to re-introduce myself to loving everything that is blue....i know it will be hard.....and if i am then given a girl at least i know i did my best to prepare and eithe way....i am going to be strong enough to deal with whatever comes my way....who knows if i have a girl i may miss the boy that i thought and may never ever have.....yep there is a reason it takes 9 months!!!!you bloody well need all that time to get round all the ideas of a new addition to your family.....!!!!!!!!!!!!:)

[Janda10]

Can you amazing people please tell me what you believe i am having? Thank you so much :)

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[atomic sagebrush]

Janda you will get more hits if you start your own thread in the forum.

Looks girl to me but I do not know gestation, if it's early it could still be a boy