this whole swaying thing...!

[lindi]

Sometimes I think 100% what I'm doing is going to work, and then sometimes I think what I'm doing is some crazy science project on my body that is going to mess everything up... its exciting and interesting, but I get very nervous thinking about a month from now when we'll be about to ttc... have I screwed up my fertility? Are the the odds going to go in my favor or is this just going to be a lousy diet, a cupboard full of random supplements, lavender everything, and bad sex? At the very least I'm VERY thin now which my DH loves, and I've learned quite a bit, right? Anyone else nervous about this whole thing? I mean, if I'm crazy enough to expend all this time learning and doing, maybe we should just go HT? Sorry for the rambling. This is nerve wracking!

[babydust]

I 100% believe in swaying, but remember, swaying is just that...leaning % towards a certain gender, there are no guarantees. I've seen near PERFECT sways that resulted in boys and non sways result in girls. BUT I've seen the stats and those that do a good sway are waaaay more likely to get the gender of their dreams than those who don't. I would just give it your all and leave the rest up to God. Remember, when swaying for a girl you want as little stress as possible. So do your research, get your plan together, then implement it without having to worry about anything. Set yourself up so that all you have to do is go through the motions and sway. It makes things a lot easier. If you ever feel that you won't be ok with an "opposite" or that you really don't want just another child, you want another girl only, then maybe you can look into PGD, that is if you have the money for it. If you still choose to sway (which I think is a great option), then you have to be in the mindset to do whatever is in your power to do, and then relax. (easier said then done I know!! haha). But if you can do that, you are in a win win situation. And also, if you do a really good sway, I personally believe your chances of conceiving your preferred gender is 75-80%, which is much better than 50/50! ;)

[lindi]

Babydust thank you. The money wouldn't be a problem for HT, but I think I would want it to be a secret and I HATE secrecy and keeping things from my family, and DH's family, and even tho I live in S. California, there are some logistical problems with HT. Plus my DH I pretty much know wants a girl but won't say so out loud because he doesn't want to live setting himself up for disappointment. That's his personality. He is VERY positive, and I love that in him. I guess I do in a very small way struggle with the whole idea of a second child a bit, too... but just in the darkest bits of the night. The other 95% of me is so excited to TTC. The love I have for my son is just so tremendous I can't wait to have more of that in my life, and to take on the amazing work of being a mother to someone else. It would be easier to have the little bit of me that's nervous to give up what shred of free time I have now for the hard work of taking care of a baby plus toddler if I knew that I would be experiencing being a mom to a girl, too. Every relative on my side of the family is a mixed family- boys AND girls. I always imagined that when I saw myself as a mom. I thought it would be cinch to have my next be a girl- I believed TCOYF when it said have sex on thus and such a day, and then finding all of this stuff on the web -- and seeing how my body is most liekly geared towards boys-it's a lot to sign up for. A lot to commit to. It might even be making the dream bigger than it was in the first place, kwim? Honestly, if I had another healthy son I would be ecstatic too... This whole thing just seems like a lot today. Thank you!

[nuthinbutpink]

I think that that swaying and HT require some luck! I think the number of children you have and want to have when you are done makes a big difference IF HT is ever an option for you. Some people will never be okay with HT and that is totally understandable. I wanted 3 kids when I got married. If I had known about swaying, I would have definitely given it a try with number 2. If I had known about HT with number 3, I might have gone HT and I am so glad I did not know about it because I would not have DD3 in my life and I cannot imagine my life without her in it. She's a trip. Now, with number 4, first I had never planned on number 4, and if there was ever going to be a number 4, it was going to be a boy. That is the point I was at though- a boy or no baby. I was able to admit that to myself and it determined my fate.

So, I think your tolerance for what happens next determines where you go from here. HT is a guarantee of gender but there is no guarantee of a baby. You can always decide to sway after HT if you need to. But make no mistake about it, HT is an extreme measure. I think just deciding to have another baby is extreme though so it wasn't that big of a leap to go HT for me!

I wish I had had a chance to give swaying a try but then my life might have taken another direction and at this point, I wouldn't change a thing. Sometimes we just have to roll with it! Good luck!

[babydust]

I completely understand what your saying, just take it day by day and you'll know what is right for you :)

[atomic sagebrush]

lindi, I completely understand.

One thing I do want to throw out there is, if you have the means and think maybe in the back of your mind that if swaying doesn't work you'll go high tech, stop swaying right now and just go HT ASAP. I believe you mentioned you are 35, well HT has a lot less chance of working, the older you get. Swaying will still be here if it doesn't work out.

Personally HT isn't for me for a lot of reasons but if it's something that you are ok with financially and spiritually, it's best to do it at a younger age rather than an older one.

[Orchid]

I would have loved to try swaying if I could. But I really want my second pregnancy to be the last one. I dont think I have the patience(nor time, I am 32) to have a boy next, get that baby to a toddler stage(I believe in breastfeeding) and then plan HT. And ofcourse HT means twins is a possibility = 4 children; DH will have a heart attack (lol). So many factors. Ofcourse I might end up swaying if HT doesnt work for us. But there will be no HT after that if that one turns out to be a boy. It will be over.

Wish I did not want a girl so bad, life would have been so much simpler.

[lindi]

I would be fine with HT, but the main thing is I travel a lot for work, and so I cannot guarantee I would be in california on the right dates. I couldn't take the time off either.

[lindi]

I would have loved to try swaying if I could. But I really want my second pregnancy to be the last one. I dont think I have the patience(nor time, I am 32) to have a boy next, get that baby to a toddler stage(I believe in breastfeeding) and then plan HT. And ofcourse HT means twins is a possibility = 4 children; DH will have a heart attack (lol). So many factors. Ofcourse I might end up swaying if HT doesnt work for us. But there will be no HT after that if that one turns out to be a boy. It will be over.

Wish I did not want a girl so bad, life would have been so much simpler.

I feel sort of in the same place- but I have to say ladies, I am the youngest of my friends with a child. When I was 33 and had my son, people thought we were babies having babies. Almost everyone I know is having babies at 38+. Some natural, some IVF. But whatever the case it's working- nobody is childless. My SIL just got pg at 40 on one natural attempt. I know I would have to do an ovarian reserve to really say this, but my OB said from my history, from my exam last month, I have the body of a 25 year old so its really just the luck of how good the egg is that pops out each month. I don't feel a huge time pressure. Both clomid and HT would increase risk of twins and DH and I want ONE more period. I know how you feel.

[atomic sagebrush]

I'm glad it's working for everyone! I got pg very easily at 38+ also but unfortunately not everyone has been as lucky as us so I feel like I have to throw the "bio clock disclaimer" out there - forewarned is forearmed!!

[nuthinbutpink]

Lindi, I just want to caution you against making assumptions about your fertility. 1. IVF for gender selection isn't the same as regular IVF. You lose half or nearly all of your embryos and most, if lucky, are only left with 1-2 at transfer time. Even the young guns(28-32). 2. Trying natural and falling pregnant easily really has no bearing on how your body might respond to meds or how ideal of a candidate you might be for IVF. I had 3 DD, all conceived first month trying, 34 years old and had a six month old when I did pretesting and it showed I had diminished ovarian reserve at 34- with a 6 month old!! I am very healthy, thin, an athlete.

My point is, we are ALL fertile. We all have kids. When you add GS to IVF, it changes everything and age is the number one predictor for success. You only increase your chance of twins if you choose to put back more than one embryo. One can split, but the odds are very low.

I just want you to be informed and if you haven't spent a lot of time on the HT board and followed some of the stories, I can see how it is easy to think that because you conceived a child easily once that HT would be a breeze. I wish it were that way. Bottom line is when you look at a clinic's stats, in your late 30's, your chances of IVF working are under 50%. The national average for 38-40 year olds for a live birth from IVF is 22.2%. That's without throwing a gender preference in the mix.

[lindi]

I'm glad it's working for everyone! I got pg very easily at 38+ also but unfortunately not everyone has been as lucky as us so I feel like I have to throw the "bio clock disclaimer" out there - forewarned is forearmed!!

no thanks! There are just so many variables in this whole thing...

[lindi]

Lindi, I just want to caution you against making assumptions about your fertility. 1. IVF for gender selection isn't the same as regular IVF. You lose half or nearly all of your embryos and most, if lucky, are only left with 1-2 at transfer time. Even the young guns(28-32). 2. Trying natural and falling pregnant easily really has no bearing on how your body might respond to meds or how ideal of a candidate you might be for IVF. I had 3 DD, all conceived first month trying, 34 years old and had a six month old when I did pretesting and it showed I had diminished ovarian reserve at 34- with a 6 month old!! I am very healthy, thin, an athlete.

My point is, we are ALL fertile. We all have kids. When you add GS to IVF, it changes everything and age is the number one predictor for success. You only increase your chance of twins if you choose to put back more than one embryo. One can split, but the odds are very low.

I just want you to be informed and if you haven't spent a lot of time on the HT board and followed some of the stories, I can see how it is easy to think that because you conceived a child easily once that HT would be a breeze. I wish it were that way. Bottom line is when you look at a clinic's stats, in your late 30's, your chances of IVF working are under 50%. The national average for 38-40 year olds for a live birth from IVF is 22.2%. That's without throwing a gender preference in the mix.

Thank you for this, NBP. I have been following some HT but not for very long. It seems like the odds of it working out aren't that great. I guess I am an optimist ( a bad thing for swaying pink actually!) but I can't imagine it not working out for me... I suppose everyone feels that way. And the reality is very different.
There is so much I am weighing in my mind. One is the chance that HT won't work.
I am in a tough position, since I have only march, april and may this year to ttc for timing when I can take off work for the baby. I work part time, but it involves traveling right now, and that also means HT would be really hard to make work. It would come down to luck if I could insure that I would be home on the right dates. And then it wouldn't be like- oh it didn't work this month, lets ttc naturally next month, because IF i was pregnant for any length of time wihtout it working, that would just take away an additional chance of ttc naturally. I only have 3 chances this year.
I'm not sure what the right thing is, and as I said the secrecy thing would really stress me out.
Right now I am swaying towards swaying because it seems simpler. Its just that really its not very simple at all. We can't control everything, can we.

[nuthinbutpink]

No, like she says in the movie Days of Thunder, "Control is an illusion, you infantile egomaniac. Nobody knows what's gonna happen next: not on a freeway, not in an airplane, not inside our own bodies and certainly not on a racetrack with 40 other infantile egomaniacs."

He still got back in the racecar though and passed him on the outside.:wink:

[Viene]

No good advice for you, but you're not alone. I feel like that a lot. Heck, that's why I am not pregnant already. I had originally planned on starting to ttc back in July, but I chickened out.

[lindi]

No good advice for you, but you're not alone. I feel like that a lot. Heck, that's why I am not pregnant already. I had originally planned on starting to ttc back in July, but I chickened out.

Can I ask yourreasons for chickening out?

[Viene]

The fear of an opposite.

[lindi]

part of me thinks we have it better swaying for a girl- we are really lowering our fertility so much, and you can go pretty extreme when it gets to douching options- that *if* you get pg, the chances of the swaying working are better than for swaying for a boy if that makes sense. But I get it. If you have your heart set, this is tough stuff.

[atomic sagebrush]

part of me thinks we have it better swaying for a girl- we are really lowering our fertility so much, and you can go pretty extreme when it gets to douching options- that *if* you get pg, the chances of the swaying working are better than for swaying for a boy if that makes sense. But I get it. If you have your heart set, this is tough stuff.

I don't know. I think swaying for a girl is "harder" in that if you're really really fertile, your body is going to be doing everything in its power to counteract everything you do by swaying. But at the same time, I think swaying for a boy is "harder" because if you have a lot of girls already, you may have lower fertility/hostile CM because of your body itself and NOT because of outside influences.

But, the good news is, people who want more of the same gender (viene) are more likely to be successful at swaying than people with a lot of one gender who are trying for an opposite.

[lindi]

I don't know. I think swaying for a girl is "harder" in that if you're really really fertile, your body is going to be doing everything in its power to counteract everything you do by swaying. But at the same time, I think swaying for a boy is "harder" because if you have a lot of girls already, you may have lower fertility/hostile CM because of your body itself and NOT because of outside influences.

But, the good news is, people who want more of the same gender (viene) are more likely to be successful at swaying than people with a lot of one gender who are trying for an opposite.

Oh! Don't say that! I hear what your saying- I just mean that swaying for a boy increases fertility, increases the chance of getting pregnant at all? But Yes, everybody's body is "set" differently and that must be overcome so it's a challenge either way.

[atomic sagebrush]

:Flower:I'm sorry, I'm not trying to discourage you in any way. In the past, sometimes people have had hurt feelings reading that it's "easier" to sway for one or the other, so I just wanted to put it out there that they BOTH have challenges but those challenges can be overcome.:Flower:

[lindi]

Thanks. I must say the more I learn, the more I am lost.

[lindi]

UPDATE: had a serious talk with DH tonight and brought up IVF PGD for the first time. He said sure. He was a little spiritually concerned, so that sure was with a bit more thinking on his part, but I ran some of the numbers by him in terms of success getting pg naturally in 3 cycles at my age, and how the place I am looking at online suggests a 12 probe- meaning a LOT of abnormal embryos will be eliminated from the picture without the uncertainty of what did we do creating all these embryos. It also way ups the likelihood of a baby sticking, which kind of beats the odds at natural conception. This clinic has a 45% success rate with women my age, and that beats trying naturally. I'm just thinking about it. The big question is really would the timing work out. It might if we did it right away. I wish I had more time. For us, the money lost would be sad but not devastating. And I get excited about the certainty of gender, and the lowered risk of birth defects.
I feel like I am losing faith in swaying. In a way I can imagine being more relaxed about the IVF than the sway- its all in somebody else's hands not mine. Let me know what you ladies think. I just feel like this swaying thing has confused me, scared me, and...if IVF doesn't work I can always revisit it? Who knows, it may be my only option. That's where I'm at. Too much testosterone and proud of it.

[atomic sagebrush]

lindi, I think you need to do whatever makes you feel the most comfortable. Just the fact that you're uptight and stressed about it, makes me concerned, KWIM??? I have seen it happen too many times, where the pink swayers who get obsessive and worked up over swaying, asking tons of questions and doing a lot of research, are the ones who get opposites (myself included). Is that universal? NO. Babydust asked tons of questions, got obsessed, did tons of research, and still got her DG.

I"m sorry I don't have all the answers with swaying. No one does. There are other people out there who will make promises about swaying but they're lying or misinformed. There is not any way to 100% guarantee a baby's gender short of PGD. That having been said, some people don't care that much about opposites or do not have the option of doing HT and those people are who should be swaying. If you care greatly (as you seem to) and have the means, I would seriously consider HT.

Whatever you're confused about, PLEASE ask me to elaborate. I have been living and breathing swaying for so long that I may assume people understand what I'm saying but I've left something out.

You really need to look at the 12 probe and ask a lot of q's on the high tech board because that may not be the best way to go. You may end up eliminating viable embies and not to sound like a negative Nellie but you may not even GET many to start with. Even some young people have not responded well to the drugs.

[lindi]

I've read a bunch that the most naturally fertile woman can be the worst responders to the stims. I know that at my age, most of my eggs will be bad. I know that one shot at IVF the odds are even against me. I get all that. I'll have no embryos, I won;t respond, I'll pick the wrong tests, have a lousy embryologist, etc- But that STILL seems more hopeful.
I just feel like it's hopeless for me to sway. I think I feel discouraged by just what you wrote, Atomic, and your essay about testosterone. The whole Valerie Grant theory about high testosterone women having more boys makes me downright depressed, like it totally kills my dream. Hearing that because I want to learn about all of this stuff makes me way less likely to have a girl has honestly almost made me cry. I give up when I hear that. It's true- I really love learning about things, I love theoretical physics, I am fascinated by chemistry and I am a bit of a nerd. I often wish I had become a doctor or a scientist. In reality, my profession is a nurturing one, so I guess I get my nerd outlet through reading. That's something I never thought would get in the way of having a daughter. I know that's me- my whole life I've been passionate and focused on things just in this same way.
And then learning about how things like my chin hair and that high Test. test years back = BOYS made me feel so unfeminine because having chin hairs is probably the most unfeminine thing I can imagine anyways, something which is obviously embarrassing, something clearly masculine- and I guess it made me feel even more embarrassed about that. It really did a number on me and my confidence with swaying to think my whole PERSONALITY- things I used to cherish about myself, were the very things in the way of having a daughter. To hear that I should stop asking questions stop learning if I want this thing to work- how can I take that? Stop being me if I want to have a daughter? It makes me feel insanely jealous of my mom, my grandma, great grandma, great aunts, other grandma- between them all only 2 boys and 10 girls. How could I come from DNA like that and have all this T?
I guess I went into this thinking I had a 50% chance of a girl and I could even up that to like 70%. That was fine. But now I feel like I'm going into this having like, a 20% chance of a girl and I would raise it by swaying to only like 30%. That's how it feels. If you see it differently for me, let me know. I'm writing this almost with tears. Its very discouraging.

[atomic sagebrush]

Lindi, please understand that it's not that it gets in the way and that you therefore need to change who you are because of it. Those questioning aspects are what makes you YOU and I am EXACTLY the same way right down to the chin hair. It's just that it can be indicative of a type of person who ~may~ have a harder, more challenging go of it with swaying. In no way am I trying to deter you from asking questions or change your personality. I really really like your personality and I am so very sorry if I hurt your feelings in any way. I just don't want to pump you up with misleading information and guarantees that I cannot offer, and set you up for a fall. They do that on other boards, then they pick apart the person's sway when it fails and blame them for it.

I realized this BEFORE I swayed. I knew it wasn't 50-50 for me, I swayed to GET to 50-50 and I figured at that point I would take the flip of the coin. I never aspired to 70% and I don't know if any of us should. But no one warned me that getting too obsessive about swaying could actually RAISE my testosterone levels and I am certain it actually hurt my sway. I want you to have a better sway than me and in order to do that, I want you to let go a little bit of the control aspect and just learn to roll with it. It's not hopeless, it's never hopeless, if it was hopeless the human race would have died out a long time ago!

In nature, even in recent history, we ALL would have ended up having kids of both genders eventually. Our testosterone levels would have fluctuated naturally over the course of time with changing seasons and diet and we would have had boys and girls. It's just nowadays with our modern diets, modern lifestyles, and desire to only have two children, it is HARDER for some of us than it is others. Our bodies size up our situations and think we are large and in charge and that our sons will be capable of spreading our genes around better, so we have sons. That's all. It's not any kind of personal judgement, it's just biology.

My grandma was one of 6 girls and two boys and I have two sisters, two girl cousins, and my brother was the only boy in the mix. But in this generation, we have all boys and only one girl! Genetics aren't cut and dry like you're thinking of them, there IS NO boy gene or girl gene. I will write some about genetics to try and explain what I mean when I say genetic factors.

There is nothing less feminine about having higher testosterone levels. Psychologists have studied in and found NO difference in the attractiveness of women with higher testosterone and lower testosterone. Believe me, I have 4 sons and in NO WAY am I saying women with boys are less feminine, less sexy, less anything in any way or I would be insulting MYSELF! Valerie Grant has 3 sons herself.

Again, I'm so, so very sorry for hurting your feelings, it's difficult to express a train of thought properly sometimes via writing. I hope you can forgive me. ♥

[lindi]

Lindi, please understand that it's not that it gets in the way and that you therefore need to change who you are because of it. Those questioning aspects are what makes you YOU and I am EXACTLY the same way right down to the chin hair. It's just that it can be indicative of a type of person who ~may~ have a harder, more challenging go of it with swaying. In no way am I trying to deter you from asking questions or change your personality. I really really like your personality and I am so very sorry if I hurt your feelings in any way. I just don't want to pump you up with misleading information and guarantees that I cannot offer, and set you up for a fall. They do that on other boards, then they pick apart the person's sway when it fails and blame them for it.

I realized this BEFORE I swayed. I knew it wasn't 50-50 for me, I swayed to GET to 50-50 and I figured at that point I would take the flip of the coin. I never aspired to 70% and I don't know if any of us should. But no one warned me that getting too obsessive about swaying could actually RAISE my testosterone levels and I am certain it actually hurt my sway. I want you to have a better sway than me and in order to do that, I want you to let go a little bit of the control aspect and just learn to roll with it. It's not hopeless, it's never hopeless, if it was hopeless the human race would have died out a long time ago!

In nature, even in recent history, we ALL would have ended up having kids of both genders eventually. Our testosterone levels would have fluctuated naturally over the course of time with changing seasons and diet and we would have had boys and girls. It's just nowadays with our modern diets, modern lifestyles, and desire to only have two children, it is HARDER for some of us than it is others. Our bodies size up our situations and think we are large and in charge and that our sons will be capable of spreading our genes around better, so we have sons. That's all. It's not any kind of personal judgement, it's just biology.

My grandma was one of 6 girls and two boys and I have two sisters, two girl cousins, and my brother was the only boy in the mix. But in this generation, we have all boys and only one girl! Genetics aren't cut and dry like you're thinking of them, there IS NO boy gene or girl gene. I will write some about genetics to try and explain what I mean when I say genetic factors.

There is nothing less feminine about having higher testosterone levels. Psychologists have studied in and found NO difference in the attractiveness of women with higher testosterone and lower testosterone. Believe me, I have 4 sons and in NO WAY am I saying women with boys are less feminine, less sexy, less anything in any way or I would be insulting MYSELF! Valerie Grant has 3 sons herself.

Again, I'm so, so very sorry for hurting your feelings, it's difficult to express a train of thought properly sometimes via writing. I hope you can forgive me. ♥

Atomic, you didn't hurt my feelings! Please please don't think that! The facts hurt my feelings. My own biology hurt my feelings. I believe what you write- it all makes sense to me, but I can't say it's encouraging. But nobody *should* encourage me if the facts just line up a different way. That would be, as you point out, irresponsible.
I got very excited thinking all of this might work. I even stupidly went out and got the girl outfit to put under the bed. I really believed until I read that dice rolling essay and the testosterone essay. I just feel like the odds are against me. But you didn't -at ALL- do a single thing to make me feel badly. I get it. The kind of person I am is just way less likely to have girls. But I can't just NOT do the research, NOT ask the questions. How would I know what to do? How could I make a decision about what my sway will be? How would I have found this site? How would I know to order aci-jel from f*cking new zealand? I don't have time on my side to do all of this intense learning and decision making and then go relax for a few months. I can't. So I feel like this just doens't have much hope in working.

[nuthinbutpink]

It just sound like cold feet to me... You're getting close to swaying time and I think it is only natural to freak out a little bit. Atomic wants everyone to be informed and come to your own conclusions about swaying. We have tried our best on here to keep to the facts and not make stuff up that will help you get your girl- we try not to make assumptions on here. Nothing is hopeless and I don't care what kind of body chemistry you have, it is possible to have a girl. All of us HTers for the most part, end up with a 50/50 split which tells me us women can make both and so can our DHs.

Just a note on the 12 probe- I would not advise that. We can talk about in on the HT board but nothing above a 5 with FISH for GS!

[lindi]

Nbp, AS, I am just so thankful you are both so knowledgable and willing to share. Thank you.

[atomic sagebrush]

Just know I'm 100% in your corner and crossing every digit I have for you!

[lindi]

Just know I'm 100% in your corner and crossing every digit I have for you!

Bless your heart! I just re read this whole thread and I sound ca-razy.

[atomic sagebrush]

Not even a little! ♥