Anyone hear of this?

[Jadis]

I just heard of this company and I don't know what to think. Seems way too good to be true, though it isn't cheap. They claim to be able to pinpoint which months a woman will conceive either a boy or a girl. You must mail them 2 mid-cycle urine samples (2 months in a row) and they'll identify the alternating pattern of your horomones that makes your body favourable to X sperm one month and Y sperm the next. I'm really excited about my sway attempt 2 weeks from now, but now that I've discovered this company, I don't know if I should put the whole thing on hold and do this test for a couple of months. Atomic Sagebrush, I'd love to hear from you about this! Do you know anything about them?

[atomic sagebrush]

Yes, I've heard of it. MPO, I would save your money. There is no reliable evidence that hormones alternate between being boy-friendly and being girl-friendly every other month, nor is there evidence that your body or eggs are ever more favorable to X vs. Y sperm. Testosterone levels may sway but even that is only a theory and very far from proven. It's one of those companies that uses a tiny dab of science-talk to sell a product when in reality the full body of data does not support anything they claim.

If you do decide to give them a whirl, please be aware that people have been told that there is no hope of them ever having a child of a certain gender, that if they ever conceived their DG that their child would be born dead, with profound birth defects, or a homosexual, and a lot of similar nonsense.

[mis2ninos]

Wow as what kind of disclaimer is that?!! Doesn't sound very reputable to me. :( these co's just feed off peoples huge desire to conceive a certain gender and its not right. If something like that were proven it would probably be all over the place. Makes me angry >:(

[wilma_five]

I had contact with them. At first I was very enthousiastic and wanted to just do it. Then Atomic gave me the same info as she did in this thread. I let it rest in my head and decided it just can't be true. If that was the case I would not have ended with 5 boys. And I will not let somebody playing tricks with my mind to tell me that if I ever get a daughter she will be al lesbian (not that it would bother me) or be bourn dead (this message would stress me out).

[Jadis]

Wow, thank you for the responses. I'm a smart girl. When something seems too good to be true, I know that it usually is. I'm a cynic by nature and I'm usually more skeptical when it comes to things like this. It's amazing what the words "last chance" whispered in my mind over and over and over again will do to a sane woman. This is my last baby. My last chance for a daughter and the longing I feel is inexplicable. I'm sure it can only be understood by others on this site who have felt what I do. It's that desperation that makes me feel weak to this kind of company. If they could promise me a girl, I'd hand over my $300, my time (at least 2 cycles forfeited), hell I'd give them my left tit if I could be guaranteed of a daughter. I wish I could find more reviews about them, I'd still like to do some more research.

[atomic sagebrush]

Jadis, if you have the money and feel like it could bring you some peace of mind, by all means don't let me or anyone stop you! As long as you're swaying in other ways it's of no relevance if you TTC every other cycle, it's certainly not going to sway blue for you.

My concern is that ~if~ you get the word from them that your T levels were high two months consecutively, that then that will cause you undue heartache and stress and make you feel like you have no hope, when in fact you DO. :)

[Jadis]

Thanks Atomic. I'm afraid of having them dash my last hope by saying that I'll never have a daughter. I think I'll just go ahead with my sway as planned. T minus 10 days till O!

[prayingforason]

I really think that this is a scam. I mean, they are charging $250 and will reimburse you if they are wrong. Even if they have to refund half of the money they make, they are making BANK!

[Koko&TT]

Yes, I've heard of it. MPO, I would save your money. There is no reliable evidence that hormones alternate between being boy-friendly and being girl-friendly every other month, nor is there evidence that your body or eggs are ever more favorable to X vs. Y sperm. Testosterone levels may sway but even that is only a theory and very far from proven. It's one of those companies that uses a tiny dab of science-talk to sell a product when in reality the full body of data does not support anything they claim.

If you do decide to give them a whirl, please be aware that people have been told that there is no hope of them ever having a child of a certain gender, that if they ever conceived their DG that their child would be born dead, with profound birth defects, or a homosexual, and a lot of similar nonsense.

Hi, I found this discussion on internet as I was searching more info about this preconception service. After reading your input I got scared for a moment but in corner of my heart I had a thought how can they tell about health of baby by testing urine. I called them and got satisfied that they have never done those kinds of things.

I went even further and contacted two references shown on their live chart and got a pleasant response about super service rather. So now I do hope that these allegations that they scare customers about their bay dying are not right. I don't find anything like that anywhere on their site. Still I would search it more and see.

[willtherebe4]

Yes, I've heard of it. MPO, I would save your money. There is no reliable evidence that hormones alternate between being boy-friendly and being girl-friendly every other month, nor is there evidence that your body or eggs are ever more favorable to X vs. Y sperm. Testosterone levels may sway but even that is only a theory and very far from proven. It's one of those companies that uses a tiny dab of science-talk to sell a product when in reality the full body of data does not support anything they claim.

If you do decide to give them a whirl, please be aware that people have been told that there is no hope of them ever having a child of a certain gender, that if they ever conceived their DG that their child would be born dead, with profound birth defects, or a homosexual, and a lot of similar nonsense.

Hi AS,

Can you please clarify what you mean by "Testosterone levels may sway but even that is only a theory and very far from proven".
Thanks.

[Koko&TT]

Yes, I've heard of it. MPO, I would save your money. There is no reliable evidence that hormones alternate between being boy-friendly and being girl-friendly every other month, nor is there evidence that your body or eggs are ever more favorable to X vs. Y sperm. Testosterone levels may sway but even that is only a theory and very far from proven. It's one of those companies that uses a tiny dab of science-talk to sell a product when in reality the full body of data does not support anything they claim.

If you do decide to give them a whirl, please be aware that people have been told that there is no hope of them ever having a child of a certain gender, that if they ever conceived their DG that their child would be born dead, with profound birth defects, or a homosexual, and a lot of similar nonsense.

I think I'm getting into this fully. I'm a physician and lucky that Urobiologics is hardly 10 miles from our hospital. I'm off this weekend so thought of meeting them personally. I've an appointment with them tomorrow.

In the mean time I had a lengthy discussion on phone as to how the sex hormones are related to all they do and how do they claim that cycles alternate. Had a chance to speak to Dr. Varma directly. Having known that I am physician the very first sentence came out was 'we love to talk to physicians and experts because they are the ones who must be informed about this new feature in details'. And yes, he did discuss all the science in real detail and am totally convinced that this should be working. He referred me to their patent applications posted onto their pregender part of their website and requested me to bring forward any criticism to the scientific facts shown in there. I'll study them tonight.

He also seemed to be excited about one case shown in their live chart whose ultrasound exam is next week. He said she planned for a girl and conceived in girl cycle told by them and they have in fact reported a girl. He said he is 99% confident they will pass.

Wait for my detailed report tomorrow. If not, definitely by next week.

SC, MD

[elle82]

I think I'm getting into this fully. I'm a physician and lucky that Urobiologics is hardly 10 miles from our hospital. I'm off this weekend so thought of meeting them personally. I've an appointment with them tomorrow.

In the mean time I had a lengthy discussion on phone as to how the sex hormones are related to all they do and how do they claim that cycles alternate. Had a chance to speak to Dr. Varma directly. Having known that I am physician the very first sentence came out was 'we love to talk to physicians and experts because they are the ones who must be informed about this new feature in details'. And yes, he did discuss all the science in real detail and am totally convinced that this should be working. He referred me to their patent applications posted onto their pregender part of their website and requested me to bring forward any criticism to the scientific facts shown in there. I'll study them tonight.

He also seemed to be excited about one case shown in their live chart whose ultrasound exam is next week. He said she planned for a girl and conceived in girl cycle told by them and they have in fact reported a girl. He said he is 99% confident they will pass.

Wait for my detailed report tomorrow. If not, definitely by next week.

SC, MD

Wow, am really interested to read your report :) I heard of Urobiologics before I came here and decided to get the pre-gender test. I have sent off my samples and am waiting for the report back.

[BeadinMom]

.

[Koko&TT]

Hi, I had a chance to visit urobiologics lab and had a memorable trip. Being Sunday the lab was mostly without any staff.

When myself, hubby with daughter arrived there a couple was already present in a conference room. They knew of next appointment with us so dropped off their preconception samples and left. I was amazed that Dr. was in his 60s but his phone voice is young, LOL. He took us to his lab which is a rented portion within a large environmental testing lab. We came back to conf room and discussed a lot about how he came up with this idea and several success stories. He also shared with us actual analytical data about preconception samples and how they interpret the alternating pattern. (Can't discuss much on internet. We promised confidentiality.)

That was a good show and the trip was worth it. We told him that we are trying for a boy and that would be it. He frankly told if we conceive in proper cycle we can get it and made us promise that we will not mix our attempt with any other gender selection technique.

Can't write much. Gotta go dine out.

Elle, good to know that you are already in. Please post your experience. I don't know if this person Beadingmom is talking to me or you.

Good luck everyone.

[pearl]

Hello ladies , I just want to share my personal experience with Dr. Verma (urobiologic)with this pregnancy. I have two children, both are boys and of course I was dreaming to have a little girl. So i decided to get pregnant in march/april. I was on LE diet starting in January, u can read my pearl twin sway. I took 25 mg of clomit one cycle and got pregnant right on my first try :))) I wanted to use preconception service that Dr. Verma offers but only did one month (february) and got pregnant next month (march). I called Urobiologic and told them that i am pregnant and only have one urine test done, they told me to send it with my pregnant urine, so they can test it both. Being 4weeks pregnant, i got results from them in two days via email: your preconception february urine sample showing boy result, meaning that if u got pregnant next cycle u will have a girl. And my pregnant urine sample was also showing a GIRL result. But 5 weeks later i found out that i am having twins, I call them again and they told me to send a new urine sample for retest (i was 10 weeks pg), which also show a Girl result. DR. Verma told me that 95% my twins will be both GIRLS and he was right! I am pregnant with two girls:))) He only charged me for post conception test. That is my story!!! Good luck to all of you!!!!!!!!!

[elle82]

Congrats pearl, delighted for you :cheer: Send some pink dust my way :bigsmile:

[elle82]

Thank you for posting your experience Koko :) You can have all of my blue baby dust :bluecheer: Really hope you get your little :xy: :DS: Good luck xxx

I didn't get to see what Beadinmom said as it was gone when I came on.

I will of course post my experience :)

Best of luck girls :fingers:

[BeadinMom]

Congrats Pearl,
You didn't mention you used urobiologics in your sway. Maybe I'll look more into it. Thanks.

[Mrs_P]

If i'm reading this right am i correct that in your cycle you have one girl friendly month then one boy friendly month alternating and they tell you which your in?

If so and i have three boys am i just unlucky (or lucky since they are amazing boys) that i just happened to land on the odd (or even) cycle all three times. Does this have anything to do with left ovary favours a certain sex thing? Or is it some cycles are x some are y, in which case although they could tell you your last cycle was x or y favoured your next could be anything and they cannot tell until after you've o'd.

Struggling to wrap my head around the logistics of it.

[elle82]

If i'm reading this right am i correct that in your cycle you have one girl friendly month then one boy friendly month alternating and they tell you which your in?

If so and i have three boys am i just unlucky (or lucky since they are amazing boys) that i just happened to land on the odd (or even) cycle all three times. Does this have anything to do with left ovary favours a certain sex thing? Or is it some cycles are x some are y, in which case although they could tell you your last cycle was x or y favoured your next could be anything and they cannot tell until after you've o'd.

Struggling to wrap my head around the logistics of it.

The theory behind it is that you have boy and girl cycles that alternate. They take 2 urine samples from 2 different cycles and tell you which cycle is which. The cycle with a T/E ratio of more than 1.0 favours a boy where as a cycle with a T/E ratio of less than 1.0 favours a girl. There's more info on their website but that's the general idea of it. They claim 90% accuracy but it is a relatively new thing that is not yet scientifically proven. There's nothing saying an XY sperm definetely couldn't survive in an XX environment and vice versa so it's 100% that you will get your desired gender but I now think it does sway and the odds of conceiving your desired gender are better if you conceive in the cycle that favours that gender.

I have 4 boys..3 of them conceived in the same month, different years.

[Mrs_P]

I was thinking about that you see, i have three boys one conceived in may, one in september (which is the same cycle i am in now and was planning to ttc) and one in december which makes ds1 conceived in month 5, ds2 in month 9 and ds3 in month 12 which would 2 of them in odd months and one in even. Funnily enough ds3 was my 'failed' sway mostly based on timing but also did FR

[Mrs_P]

Elle i noticed you've been blessed with a girl already was she conceived in a different cycle (odd or even month) to any of the others to support this theory and did you do anything else that swayed when you had her.

Thank you for any advice

[elle82]

My girl is my first child-did absolutely nothing to sway. She was conceived in March which is supposedly a "girl" month if you believe in the months and swaying. I'm not sure if it would have been a girl cycle or not based on the pattern of my cycles but I *think* it would have been. I'm really interested in what the results of my Urobiologics tests will say. I'll definetely post them up when I get them. Although Urobiologics say the pattern of your cycles can change after every conception.

After reading the info on their website over the last while and the posts on here I don't think Urobiologics is a scam, just their theory hasn't been proven. Their theory is only based on their own research, it has never been the subject of trials. The reason I decided to get the pre-gender test was because I thought the theory made sense and that it could possibly work. I liked that they were actually testing samples rather than just using birthdays or dates to say when would be best to ttc a girl or a boy and they give you a refund if it doesn't work.

I am willing to try pretty much anything-I have a very open mind. :fingers: our sways will work :)

[Mrs_P]

Sorry for all the questions, is it true though that they say you shouldn't sway if you use their cycle method thing. I'm sure one of the posts on here said they advise women not to sway

[elle82]

They probably do say that. It just says on their website that there's no diet, no dates to try etc..it doesn't say NOT to use other factors. I said it to Atomic and she said it can be used alongside swaying. I think pearl used it alongside swaying??

[atomic sagebrush]

Hi, I found this discussion on internet as I was searching more info about this preconception service. After reading your input I got scared for a moment but in corner of my heart I had a thought how can they tell about health of baby by testing urine. I called them and got satisfied that they have never done those kinds of things.

I went even further and contacted two references shown on their live chart and got a pleasant response about super service rather. So now I do hope that these allegations that they scare customers about their bay dying are not right. I don't find anything like that anywhere on their site. Still I would search it more and see.

I don't think it's something they necessarily advertise on their site.

[atomic sagebrush]

Hi AS,

Can you please clarify what you mean by "Testosterone levels may sway but even that is only a theory and very far from proven".
Thanks.

The evidence in favor of testosterone is based around some things that are not real well proven like personality tests, career choices, correlations between women who have certain diseases that can cause higher than normal testosterone, and the gender of their offspring, etc. I happen to believe that maternal testosterone levels do sway, but it is nowhere near proven, like, at all. Glucose levels have much stronger evidence in favor.

[atomic sagebrush]

If i'm reading this right am i correct that in your cycle you have one girl friendly month then one boy friendly month alternating and they tell you which your in?

If so and i have three boys am i just unlucky (or lucky since they are amazing boys) that i just happened to land on the odd (or even) cycle all three times. Does this have anything to do with left ovary favours a certain sex thing? Or is it some cycles are x some are y, in which case although they could tell you your last cycle was x or y favoured your next could be anything and they cannot tell until after you've o'd.

Struggling to wrap my head around the logistics of it.

Yes, that's the bit that I find simply too silly to believe (aside from the dead/homosexual thing). The magical alternating cycles. So women who have more graduate degrees or who are higher in the social pecking order, having more sons is because...they're all happening to get pg in boy cycles? Older moms having more girls is because...we suddenly started getting pg in the opposite months?? Those of us with 4,5,6 of the same gender over 20 years is because...we're just happening to manage to always get pg every other month? Michelle Duggar conceiving 6 boys in a row and then 5 girls in a row is because...she was conceiving in certain months 6 times in a row and then in the opposite month 5 times in a row? Guys who ride bikes and jog and have rheumatoid arthritis father more daughers because...they're only getting their wives pg in certain months? After wars, everyone just suddenly gets pg in opposite months and has more boys??

In order for Urobiologics to be true, there would have to be NO connections between any lifestyle factors and gender of baby conceived. Whereas there is tons of evidence that lifestyle factors can and do sway and so that, to me, debunks the entire idea. It doesn't add up to me, but unlike some swaying things, it probably can't hurt (as long as you all know going in that some people really HAVE been told that they cannot/should not try to conceive a baby of a certain gender.)

[wilma_five]

They tell you to drop the diet, douches etc. because that can influence the outcome of the samples.

This is what they emailed me:

This is just to let you know that some customers who have been following other gender selection programs (diet plans, treatments like douching or body pH alteration using weird ways) along with our natural preconception method, have met with failure. This applies to post-conception test as well. Therefore, should you decide to go with our protocol, you are requested to leave other programs behind because urine is the first thing which gets altered by these artificial techniques.

So, you should choose only one tactis. Swaying or urobiologics, not both!

[nuthinbutpink]

It's an interesting theory but they only get 2 urine samples from 2 months. From there, they ASSUME that they continue to alternate if the months were opposites. What if that's not the actual pattern if there is actually a pattern? What if it's B/G/G/B? Also with fraternal twins, 50% are B/G so that kind of blows up the theory that only one gender will thrive each month!

With IVF, usually we have 50/50 gender splits.

None of us know who's right. This company has been around for a while and there is absolutely zero data or peer review to back up any claims. And anyone who uses 90% gives me pause.

[elle82]

It's an interesting theory but they only get 2 urine samples from 2 months. From there, they ASSUME that they continue to alternate if the months were opposites. What if that's not the actual pattern if there is actually a pattern? What if it's B/G/G/B? Also with fraternal twins, 50% are B/G so that kind of blows up the theory that only one gender will thrive each month!

With IVF, usually we have 50/50 gender splits.

None of us know who's right. This company has been around for a while and there is absolutely zero data or peer review to back up any claims. And anyone who uses 90% gives me pause.

Def agree :agree: I think it would be better if they tested at least 3 samples. I decided it was worth a go but I know it's not proven in any way.

[atomic sagebrush]

Y'know, I should just walk away from this thread but I do have to point out that there are reasons why medicines and procedures are published for peer review and not "sworn to secrecy" and having to sign confidentiality agreements - it's so people who are experts in many different fields, can go over extraordinary claims and investigate them. I'm sorry but I find it, as we Americans say "bass-ackwards" to sell a product based on privileged information that is not available for general review.

From the Urobiologics site itself: "This hypothesis has not been proven or backed by any scientific body. Also, no large scale clinical trials have been performed except our in-house studies and use of this concept on nearly 500 couples. We do not know the exact nature of the compounds involved at this time but we have some analytical data and observed that the difference between two cycles is clear and almost 95% women alternate. Those who are conceiving in appropriate cycles are getting the babies of their choice. The success rate appears to be approximately 90%."

This begs the question, if one was truly getting 90% success rate and have 500 couples, WHY would you not publish a study?? There are published studies done on 10 people that get tons of media coverage. A sample size of 500 with 90% success is HUGE. If you can prove that 95% of all women are having alternating cycles between conceiving a boy or a girl, that is the biggest news in reproductive endocrinology since Louise Brown. You would be freaking famous and wealthy beyond belief and more than that, you'd go down in history as the person who solved one of the hugest biological mysteries of all time. You would sit on that information, why?

I may not be able to debunk these claims on the basis of data (yet) but I know human nature and it is simply not plausible that anyone would sit on that information in order to sell preconception gender tests for 300/400 dollars a pop.

[elle82]

They tell you to drop the diet, douches etc. because that can influence the outcome of the samples.

This is what they emailed me:

This is just to let you know that some customers who have been following other gender selection programs (diet plans, treatments like douching or body pH alteration using weird ways) along with our natural preconception method, have met with failure. This applies to post-conception test as well. Therefore, should you decide to go with our protocol, you are requested to leave other programs behind because urine is the first thing which gets altered by these artificial techniques.

So, you should choose only one tactis. Swaying or urobiologics, not both!

I didn't know that when I signed up :(

[atomic sagebrush]

They tell you to drop the diet, douches etc. because that can influence the outcome of the samples.

This is what they emailed me:

This is just to let you know that some customers who have been following other gender selection programs (diet plans, treatments like douching or body pH alteration using weird ways) along with our natural preconception method, have met with failure. This applies to post-conception test as well. Therefore, should you decide to go with our protocol, you are requested to leave other programs behind because urine is the first thing which gets altered by these artificial techniques.

So, you should choose only one tactis. Swaying or urobiologics, not both!

Hmm...would this not then indicate that either a) swaying can undo the "alternating months" thing and therefore swaying would still be a good idea or b) that your lifestyle as a whole can make their urine tests unreliable to begin with and are not anything to rely upon??

[elle82]

I honestly don't know, I'm very confused now :worry: No idea why I decided to do this! Seemed like it was worth a go at the time

[atomic sagebrush]

That's why I hate stuff like this, just seems like it causes all this stress and has people even secondguessing their sways. :/

Ask yourself - what makes more sense - that our bodies would sway gender based on maternal condition and what baby has the best odds of survival to adulthood, or that we are alternating back and forth between boy and girl cycles for some mysterious reason that no one seems to know??

[nuthinbutpink]

I totally understand doing it. You simply want to give yourself the best chance. That makes total sense. There's no harm attempting in the months they tell you to and that way you don't second guess yourself when it comes to doing whatever you can go sway your odds. I just wish there was some actual proof. I see no harm trying though.

[wilma_five]

I understand that you signed up for it. I almost did! It playes with your mind big time isn't it?

[elle82]

I signed up for it because in my mind it was worth a go and I figured if I did diet, supplements and tried in the months they said were best for a girl I'd have it all covered and I'd have a great chance of conceiving a girl. I wanted to try everything I can because having a baby girl means the world to me and DH and if we are unsuccessful this time we will try high tech next time around and I'm really hoping to avoid going down that road. Even if the Urobiologics test actually works I have probably messed up my samples as I was using swaying methods when I took the samples and I took my last sample on day 14 of my cycle assuming I would get AF on cd 28 but now it's cd 32 and I'm still waiting for it. So I doubt the reliability of their results based on that as well as just doubting it in general so more than likely I have wasted my money :( I just have a feeling they'll come back to me with some mad result as well, lol but if they do say one cycle is better than the other I agree there's no harm trying in that cycle. The whole thing definetely plays with your mind :worry: It prob sounds a bit mad but I figured if I was swaying and had the back up of ttc in a "girl" cycle then if I cheated a little with diet it wouldn't matter SO much as it was a "girl" cycle. Now when I say cheat on the diet I mean drinking a full sugar drink in the morning or between meals not having a 3 course meal!!
Atomic, it does of course make more sense to me that maternal condition sways more than the magic alternating cycles :) I think sometimes when you want something so much logic goes out the window and when you see these places that offer you some hope of conceiving the gender you want then you want to give it a go even if it doesn't make perfect sense.

[Koko&TT]

Just back from vacation. What's up Elle82?

[atomic sagebrush]

I completely agree and I KNOW (because remember, I've been right there with you guys!) how bad these things can mess with yoru minds. And if I ever come off overly negative or heavy handed I apologize, it's only because I want to protect you guys from getting your hearts broken like some people have over some of these things. :heart: I don't ever want anyone to walk into an ultrasound encouraged by the Chinese Gender Calendar and heartbeat and other OWT like I was, or by Urobiologics or whoever, only to end up sobbing in the bathroom 10 minutes later because I felt like my daughter that I thought was a sure thing and guaranteed, had been snatched away from me!!!

[elle82]

Aww Atomic!! :heart: Thanks for looking out for us :hugs: I love this website and all the fab ladies on here :HH:
My update is I got my results from Urobiologics and they said I was alternating and my first sample was a girl cycle, my second sample was a boy cycle and this cycle I'm on now will be a girl cycle according to them. The doctor compared my case to someone else on their live chart that did get their desired gender. He said to me that if I get pregnant this cycle I will almost definetely get it (a girl!). I don't think he SHOULD be saying things like that to people who desperately want a certain gender and are vulnerable even if he really does believe it unless they are 100% sure that it can't fail. It certainly got me excited reading that but I know I have to be realistic. My impression of Urobiologics is that they are genuine-this doctor really believes in his work and is very dedicated but it's just not proven and I honestly don't know if it works or not. I will try in the cycles that they say are preferable to conceive but I'm a big girl and know nothing is guaranteed but I have my fingers crossed that I will get a little girl :DD:

[elle82]

Hey Koko, I updated above with my result from Urobiologics but the girls were saying you can't use both Urobiologics and swaying together and I didn't know that when I bought my pre-gender test.

[Blueplease]

Hi AS,

Can you please clarify what you mean by "Testosterone levels may sway but even that is only a theory and very far from proven".
Thanks.



Yes please can you clarify this AS. From what I have been reading it seemed that your theory was stating a higher tester one level was towards a boy. This has no confused me a little. Thxs

[atomic sagebrush]

Yes please can you clarify this AS. From what I have been reading it seemed that your theory was stating a higher tester one level was towards a boy. This has no confused me a little. Thxs

I think I did explain this in this thread somewhere but just to recap, yes, that's a theory that I do happen to believe in, but I do want everyone to know and fully understand that the evidence in favor of swaying and particularly WHY swaying works is very sketchy and not in any way 100% conclusive. Even the stuff that I personally believe in. The only thing that has been proven to my satisfaction is that XX and XY fertilized eggs develop better in different levels of glucose because researchers have actually witnessed it happen in the lab (and even that may not translate into the human body and it may be diet does nothing to control it!! We don't know, we just don't have the data.) The rest is speculation backed up by some studies that may or may not have been definitive.

Even in things like heart disease/diet, which has been studied a zillion times more and better than anything having to do with gender swaying, has tons of contradictions and studies that seem to refute each other. We can't treat anything in swaying as a given, we have to be willing to always question everything.

[Mum23boys]

Interesting i saw a post that said cycles alternate - if its boy girl boy girl like that then it would make sense with my cycles as i have boys 2 conceived in oct and 1 in dec so sept and nov could be my girl months ???

[Mrs_P]

Interesting i saw a post that said cycles alternate - if its boy girl boy girl like that then it would make sense with my cycles as i have boys 2 conceived in oct and 1 in dec so sept and nov could be my girl months ???

Could just be coincidence though, i think atomics point makes more sense in my opinion, surely it wouldn't be alternate for all women other factors from the environment could influence the pattern (as they do with some many other aspects of life, your ovulation date for one can hope around) you could be bbgb etc in which case although the theory would be ok they could only tell you the cycles that have passed not predict current ones?????

I my experience i have had 2 ds conceived in odd months my latest in an even so if it really is that straight forward it didn't work for me x

[elle82]

Urobiologics do say that your cycle pattern changes after you conceive/have a baby so they recommend you repeat the test. I think their test would be better and more accurate if they tested at least 3 samples. I 100% think Urobiologics are genuine though, I just have no clue if their method REALLY works.

[atomic sagebrush]

Interesting i saw a post that said cycles alternate - if its boy girl boy girl like that then it would make sense with my cycles as i have boys 2 conceived in oct and 1 in dec so sept and nov could be my girl months ???

That is the claim of the Urobiologics people but I do not believe the data backs it up. My reasoning is fully explained in several posts in this thread.

[atomic sagebrush]

Urobiologics do say that your cycle pattern changes after you conceive/have a baby so they recommend you repeat the test. I think their test would be better and more accurate if they tested at least 3 samples. I 100% think Urobiologics are genuine though, I just have no clue if their method REALLY works.

:drama: I hope you guys can forgive me for indulging my inner skeptic here, but may I point out that if they did not say that, then ANYONE could then determine their "alternating cycles" simply by looking at their previous conceptions and would then not require the proprietary blood tests that Urobiologics sells. And not only that, but in that case, everyone would also need to repurchase the product after every birth and conception. It seems terribly convenient that this cycle just happens to reset after every conception and birth, KWIM???

[Koko&TT]

Sorry. I didn’t forget my promise to read patent applications by Urobiologics. I kept this Saturday evening free just for this. DH and Selena are away to NY to see grands, phew! I couldn’t go, I’m on call.

Elle, glad to know that you got your alternating report on your PreGender samples. What’s up next?

Urobiologics has two patents as mentioned on their website. The first patent is complex and was over my head but the second one (Use of Female Mammal's Urine for Determination of Fetal Gender Related Characteristics - Patent application (http://www.faqs.org/patents/app/20110230453)) got me interested. Out of so many formulae mentioned there I picked one to understand how they may be evaluating urine samples before and after pregnancy. Pay attention only to claims 1 and 36 of the application, placed below. Both are almost exactly same:

CLAIM 1: A method of determining the gender of an unborn child comprising the steps of: (a) measuring levels of testosterone (T), estrogens (E), progesterone (P) and gonadotropins (G) in a body fluid from a pregnant female; (b) calculating [E-(T+P+G)] as the difference between the level of estrogens (E) and the total levels of testosterone (T), progesterone (P) and gonadotropins (G); and (c) determining the gender of the unborn child to be male if the [E-(T+P+G)] value from step (b) ranges from about 300 to about 1,500, or to be female if the [E-(T+P+G)] value from step (b) ranges from about -10 to about -800.

CLAIM 36. A method of determining gender specific compatibility of an ovum released in a menstrual cycle for pre-conception baby gender planning comprising the steps of: (a) measuring levels of testosterone (T), estrogens (E), progesterone (P) and gonadotropins (G) in a body fluid from a non-pregnant female; (b) calculating [E-(T+P+G)] as the difference between the level of estrogens (E) and the total levels of testosterone (T), progesterone (P) and gonadotropins (G); and (c) determining the gender specific compatibility of the ovum released in the menstrual cycle to be male if the [E-(T+P+G)] value from step (b) ranges from about 300 to about 1,500, or to be female if the [E-(T+P+G)] value from step (b) ranges from about -10 to about -800.

What I understand now is this. If I find out the amounts of following hormones in my urine;
a) all the three estrogens (estradiol, estriol and estradiol),
b) Testosterone,
c) progesterone,
d) gonadotropins (i.e. FSH and LH before pregnancy & HcG after pregnancy)
e) and then calculate a value using formula (All the estrogens minus (T+P+gonadotropins), and if I get a positive number with a preconception sample then I have a boy cycle and same way if I get a positive number with a post-conception sample then I’m preggo with a boy. Similarly, if I get a negative number with a preconception sample then I have a girl cycle and if I get a negative number using a post-conception sample then I’m carrying a girl. (wondering why girls mostly get a negative rating, LOL)
f) May be that is the reason they concluded that if one conceives in say a boy phase, the same phase is locked and continues till the baby is delivered. No alternating cycles thereafter.

You got to read this MANTRA with cool head several times to get it. You may have to gallop several cups of coffee, LOL. I did 3.

Their observation that almost all women alternate in every cycle is amazing. That is what Dr. Varma showed me when we visited their place. Whatever limited medical knowledge I have so far, the only way it can alternate may be due to alternating ovulation from left and right ovary. I even searched literature on this and found mixed observations. Some scientists (Side of ovulation and cycle characteristics in normally fertile women (http://humrep.oxfordjournals.org/content/15/4/752.full)) support alternating pattern whereas some don’t. As per this article, a company also evaluated hormone levels from midcycle urine and couldn’t conclude anything relevant. (May be if they use this formula they may find something).

A second study (http://www.reproduction-online.org/content/70/1/7.full.pdf) concluded as follows “In the 25 women studied, with regular menstrual cycles of 28+/-3 days (48 cycles), ovulation occurred most often (87.6%)in an alternating manner. Our present results show that in women with regular menstrual cycles of about 28 days, ovulation would usually alternate between the two ovaries.” This pub also contained a statement which supports the locking or shifting of hormonal environment when a conception occurs. It says,” However, Dukelow (1977) and Hodgen (1982) consider that ovulation in the cynomolgus monkey and rhesus monkey, respectively, occurs alternately as long as the cycles are not perturbed.”

Yet a third publication (Characteristics of human ovulation in natural cycles correlated with age and achievement of pregnancy (http://humrep.oxfordjournals.org/content/16/12/2501.full)) concludes: “Human ovulation shows characteristics related to age. The interaction between the two ovaries seems to be most pronounced in the younger years, where ovulations jump from one ovary to the other more frequently than later on in life.”

I don’t intend to write a full thesis but after going through all of above I can say with confidence that Urobiologics makes sense and that they are taking this field to a new level. I don’t see any of these articles mentioned in their hypothesis section though. May be they should have a woman advisor (like me) on their advisory board,:wink:.

I see a lot of negative comments about them on internet. May be they had some errors which are highlighted more often than the correct ones. It is easy to develop a wrong notion about any work without getting ones head into it. You never come to know of anyone unless you deal with him/her. I had the same feeling before I came across this board.

So, it’s not that the testosterone alone controls everthing. It’s part of the story. I think this is why they say “your hormones will do everything for you, just relax”. Makes sense to me. I think the amount of work involved per case justifies the fee they are charging. I do hope my 2-hour effort will help many women in clearing their ideas about this work. These are my personal views about this work and should not be taken as endorsement or anything.

Got a word today from a close senior that I might be promoted with more responsibilities. Yikes. Should think, not twice but thrice, before going for another baby.

Good night.:cheer:
SC, MD

[atomic sagebrush]

Koko, I thank you very much for taking the time to share this with us.

I still don't believe it (and I hope people believe me when I say, I have sound scientific reasons for doing so, I dismiss NOTHING out of hand) and when I have the time I will post the reasons why but for starters - boy girl twins, people who go HT and get both boys and girls, and animals with litters who conceive both boys and girls in roughly equal number (up to and including Jon and Kate and Octomom).

[Koko&TT]

Hi atomic, we would love to hear your feedback. I think it needs a thorough discussion, good or bad. That is the purpose.

As you mentioned about "boy girl twins, people who go HT and get both boys and girls, and animals with litters who conceive both boys and girls in roughly equal number (up to and including Jon and Kate and Octomom)." I must say these are biological rare events. We must look at majority 99% of normal deliveries. Octomom case for example is probably 1 in 5 billion. In fact, it may never happen again. So, we cannot and should not trash a good science or company based on rare events.

BTW, I sent the references from my earlier post to Dr. Verma (without saying anything of this site). He thankfully acknowledged and promised to include those in the hypothesis section soon. He said to watch for the development about the last entry in the live chart this week. He is getting this samples from Australia today.

Had few moments to check in. Very busy week ahead.

SC, MD

[elle82]

Koko..wow, that's a lot of info. Thank you for sharing. I am glad to hear that you think it makes sense and can work. Are you planning on trying it yourseld soon? I am TTC this month based on it being a girl cycle, will skip next month and TTC again in November. This pre-gender test is relatively new and I think at the start if people weren't getting an alternating result they were told they couldn't have a baby of their desired gender but Dr.Verma says that this is usually due to strong medication and these days they offer re-testing after a certain period of time and it is usually resolved then. I was very relieved when I did get an alternating result! Based on my recent interaction with Dr.Verma, I 100% believe Urobiologics are genuine and he is very dedicated to his work but I can't prove that it definetely works. I am willing to try it and hope I will get my baby girl. I trust it more than other methods like Jonas because they are actually testing samples and I am interested to see where it goes in the future.
Atomic, I too would love to hear your thoughts when you have time :)

[atomic sagebrush]

Boy girl twins, animals with litters, and people who get equal gender splits with HT are not biologically rare events.

If Dr. Verma is claiming 90-95% success with this method and saying that all women have these alternating cycles, then he needs to be able to scientifically explain Octomom in light of his theory.

[atomic sagebrush]

First of all, a patent is NOT scientific evidence.

apparently we have drastically different interpretations of the data because I was about to post a link refuting the "alternating ovary" theory only to realize that the Dr. used it to SUPPORT his theory!?!

From one of the studies above supposedly supporting the idea that ovaries alternate every month and that this indicates something hormonally: "It is concluded that in normally fertile women, the cycle length and the hormonal profile are independent of the, most probably random, site of ovulation."

Studies from the 80's, I don't necessarily dismiss them out of hand but newer studies are ALWAYS better. They have technology now to tell side of ovulation via ultrasound rather than having to rely on surgically removed ovaries and in the newer studies that are cited as supporting Urobiologics above, both state very clearly that they saw nowhere near 87% alternating cycles!!! So that older study is very likely incorrect and must be disregarded because follow up studies using superior technology and methodology did not come to the same conclusion.

It's well proven that ovulation/conception/gender ratio works differently in different animals, even amongst primates, and thus I'd hang nothing on studies a) from the 70's and 80's AND b) in non-humans, to prove anything.

Finally, re the Fukuda study, I can all but guarantee you that Fukuda and his fellow researchers do not buy into Urobiologics. I can do this on the basis of the many other studies that they've published on gender ratio that have NOTHING to do with alternating cycles whatsoever. Fukuda, et al, also found that smoking and stress and the age at which one starts menstruating also affects the gender ratio of their offspring. They found that right sided ovulation tends to be affiliated with higher fertility overall and on this site we believe that higher fertility = boys. Thus, any correlation between right sided ovulation and boys may simply indicate that higher fertility = boys.

A good theory has to explain ALL available data and Urobiologics does not do that. Vegetarians have more girls. Women with Master's Degrees have more boys. Beautiful women have more girls. Families high in social status have more boys. Men who ride bicycles and run marathons have more girls. People who had toxoplasmosis and Hepatitis B have more boys. Anorexics have more girls. Women with more muscle mass have more boys. After a famine women had more girls. After wars, women tend to have more boys. I could seriously go on and on but my point is, it makes NO SENSE whatsoever that all these people suddenly start spontaneously ovulating from a certain ovary Or hey, I'll even give the Uro-B folks the benefit of the doubt and say, who knows maybe they do, but that only PROVES that swaying would therefore be more effective then simply conceiving in a magical month

The hardest thing to refute in the world is an idea that uses truth to promote falseness. Yes, hormones alter gender ratio and you can find a lot of evidence to support that. There are also studies that seem to indicate right sided ovulation = more boys (but NOWHERE in the ballpark of 90-99%!!!! We have people on this site who've conceived girls from the right and boys from the left.) But to extrapolate those facts into a theory that somehow there are these alternating cycles, with no evolutionary explanation as to why that would be.

Husband is awake have to go

[nuthinbutpink]

atomic, please don't waste your time on this. The website quotes " estimated success rate of 90%" for the pre conception test and "estimates" 95% for the post conception. There is absolutely ZERO data to back up any of these claims.

The website looks very amateur and of course, it may work because you should have a 50/50 chance at getting it right but without any studies, results, research to speak of, it is a "fun test" and that's about it.

Koko- you are the most open-minded MD I've ever met. Most MD's I know are extremely skeptical and deal in absolutes and facts- not theories and bogus statistics pulled from thin air. It is a hypothesis- its says so straight on the website. It isn't an exact science and testing only 2 urine samples and calling that a pattern is ridiculous too and as a MD you should know that.

Nature is not symmetrical.

Please, atomic, let's move on from this. I've read enough.

[elle82]

I'm just confused...again :confused: Don't think we'll get any further with this on here. It's a shame there's no data to back up any of the claims and that it has never been independently researched. All I know is I was willing to try ANYTHING when I bought my test (and still am, lol!!) and if I get a girl I couldn't care less whether it's down to this pre-gender test, swaying, the moon signs or just pure luck!!

[nuthinbutpink]

I'm just confused...again :confused: Don't think we'll get any further with this on here. It's a shame there's no data to back up any of the claims and that it has never been independently researched. All I know is I was willing to try ANYTHING when I bought my test (and still am, lol!!) and if I get a girl I couldn't care less whether it's down to this pre-gender test, swaying, the moon signs or just pure luck!!

No, we won't get any further because there are no data points. I don't want you to stress of worry at all. I understand wanting to do everything you can. I don't like "doctors" coming on here from the "same geographic location" this company is located and raving about the service. I smell a rat.

[elle82]

No, we won't get any further because there are no data points. I don't want you to stress of worry at all. I understand wanting to do everything you can. I don't like "doctors" coming on here from the "same geographic location" this company is located and raving about the service. I smell a rat.

That thought had crossed my mind NBP but I really hope not!!
I'm so done stressing now-what will be will be :) I've never wanted someone to be right more than I want Urobiologics to be right though, lol!! You are right when you say it is not scientifically proven and there is no data but they say that themselves. I would like to see if it does develop further in the future.
I know I haven't been critical enough-I think I'm just blinded by what is claimed, high success rates and the hope of a little :XX: I WANT to believe it's all true. I'm sure there are plenty of others just like me. But like I said earlier on this thread I'm a big girl and, while I'm trying this stuff, I'm also being realistic and I know that I could get an opposite so I'm not setting myself up for heart break by believing my desired gender is guaranteed.
P.S NBP, I don't suppose you have any pink baby dust to spare?? LOL :bigsmile:

[nuthinbutpink]

Elle- take it all hun! I so hope you get your little girl.

[Koko&TT]

No, we won't get any further because there are no data points. I don't want you to stress of worry at all. I understand wanting to do everything you can. I don't like "doctors" coming on here from the "same geographic location" this company is located and raving about the service. I smell a rat.

Boy, lot of hatred here. Nuthinkbutpink, I'm just surprised that you are the owner of this website and you do not want educated people to come on it. I'm really sorry to intercept your space.

Well this may be my last post then. I just wanted to update the response I got from Dr. Verma after I sent them the references about alternating ovulation. Here it is:

"Thanks for the info. After I looked into it in detail, I felt that we cannot include it at our website. The reason being we have nothing to do with the process of ovulation. Alternating ovulation is entirely different than alternating hormonal environment. Almost 95% women have alternating hormonal environment but percentage of women having alternating ovulation may be way way low. Nowhere at our website we mention of alternating ovulation. We are quite thankful to you for looking for us as it is easy to get confused on these issues. We will certainly clarify this point at the website.

Just to update you on the case I mentioned yesterday. We did receive the pre- and postcon samples from mary98083 yesterday and today we reported that her Pregender sample is indicating a boy phase and that there is 90% chance that the FirstGender post-conception test report will also come as a boy. We are working on her post-con sample and will be done by Wednesday. This will be the earliest case in our history meaning she conceived in the same cycle when she collected her pre-con sample. If true, this will prove our 'locking of hormonal environment after conception'. Just watch."

So, good luck to all readers at this website.

Sabrina

[BeadinMom]

I don't see any "hatred" on NuthinButPink's part, she is merely questioning your theory & looking out for anyone who may come across this post....just as BabyBleux did on the other website.
You're quite transparent actually.

[nuthinbutpink]

Sabrina, you are so full of yourself to assume we do not have a place full of highly educated individuals. Hatred? Really? I don't care enough about you or this topic to hate. I simply disagree with you about the legitimacy of this company's statistics. That's all I am questioning. What we educated people do on here is sort out fact from fiction. That and you sound like a walking billboard for their service. If you are legit, please accept my apology.

Alternating ovulation is a myth. As a highly educated doctor, I'd think you'd already know that.

I really don't care what products people try. All I'm interested in is the straight truth. 90%+ numbers are ridiculous without any proof. I'm not wasting anymore time on this topic. Good luck to you.

[Koko&TT]

Sabrina, you are so full of yourself to assume we do not have a place full of highly educated individuals. Hatred? Really? I don't care enough about you or this topic to hate. I simply disagree with you about the legitimacy of this company's statistics. That's all I am questioning. What we educated people do on here is sort out fact from fiction. That and you sound like a walking billboard for their service. If you are legit, please accept my apology.

Alternating ovulation is a myth. As a highly educated doctor, I'd think you'd already know that.

I really don't care what products people try. All I'm interested in is the straight truth. 90%+ numbers are ridiculous without any proof. I'm not wasting anymore time on this topic. Good luck to you.

The proof that I am legit lies in the fact that urobiologics rejected all the references I sent about alternate ovulation. I thought their work might be related to it but is not. Today they updated their website saying that they are talking of 'alternating hormonal environments' and not 'alternating ovulation' and that ovulation has nothing to do with their work. They also mention that 'alternating ovulation' is observed hardly in 75% women whereas almost 95% women they have tested have 'alternating hormonal environments'.

As for trying their PreGender test, I think we have to wait for some months considering the amount of work pressure I'll face due to pending promotion. Also by that time hopefully their live chart will show enough proof to silent the critics.

[hopingforsaskia]

You know what I don't like? I don't like feeling preyed on. I don't honestly know if Koko is some sort of plant or not, but in any case, we swayers have so much stuff going on - emotions and feelings that are raw and fragile, and we will grasp at anything to get what we so desire. It's not only unethical, it's downright cruel to flaunt some unproven mumbojumbo around and put "MD" at the end of your posts, knowing that in all likelihood, most of the unsuspecting (let's call them victims?) women on here wont be able to shake that new nagging doubt you just put in their minds.

That's what I hate.

[myGirl]

Koko, you seem very gullible for a "physician."

[Koko&TT]

You know what I don't like? I don't like feeling preyed on. I don't honestly know if Koko is some sort of plant or not, but in any case, we swayers have so much stuff going on - emotions and feelings that are raw and fragile, and we will grasp at anything to get what we so desire. It's not only unethical, it's downright cruel to flaunt some unproven mumbojumbo around and put "MD" at the end of your posts, knowing that in all likelihood, most of the unsuspecting (let's call them victims?) women on here wont be able to shake that new nagging doubt you just put in their minds.

That's what I hate.

Ya, you may say anything, but I gave a good thought last night. The reason I got into it is that urobiologics has brought in some new medical innovations. 1) The term "alternating hormonal environment" is new in medical field; 2) The observation that this environment alternates in every cycle is new; 3) The soon to become fact that this environment is locked after conception and one stops alternating just like one stop menstruating, is striking observation. No matter what amount of hate you may have in mind, I think every woman will have go through this phenomenon and sooner or later it will find its place in medical books.

I am deciding to get off this board but I do not want to go with this feeling that I was called names by a group of women who are just blindly biased against this work. If this board is designed to not to listen to new ideas, many other women would be getting off as well.

[elle82]

Elle- take it all hun! I so hope you get your little girl.

Thanks so much hun xxx :heart:

Sabrina, thank you for your input on this topic and I really really reallly hope you are genuine and I want to believe you are. As we are on the internet we can't prove whether or not people that come on are actually genuine or actually working for companies so think it's understandable that people get suspicious. I wish you all the luck in the world with your promotion and ttc. I would never name call and I'm all for new ideas and theories or else I wouldn't have tried the Urobiologics test myself. I would like to see Urobiologics being developed further and scientifically proven. As it's not scientifically proven, of course there are going to be doubts about it and the theory behind it. When I got my results from Urobiologics I'll be honest and say I let myself get a little carried away being told I would almost definetely get my girl if I conceive this cycle-that's what I wanted to believe but this thread brought me back down to earth. As much as I want to believe something I have to try and be realistic about it. We do have a lot going on in terms or emotions and so desperately wanting our desired gender when we are swaying-I definetely agree with hopingforsaskia on that.
Koko, one question-in your post you said Dr.Verma said there's a 90% chance that firstgender test will also show boy as the pre-gender test showed a boy phase but isn't the first gender test meant to be at least 95% accurate so why is he saying only 90% for this one??

[Koko&TT]

Thanks so much hun xxx :heart:

Sabrina, thank you for your input on this topic and I really really reallly hope you are genuine and I want to believe you are. As we are on the internet we can't prove whether or not people that come on are actually genuine or actually working for companies so think it's understandable that people get suspicious. I wish you all the luck in the world with your promotion and ttc. I would never name call and I'm all for new ideas and theories or else I wouldn't have tried the Urobiologics test myself. I would like to see Urobiologics being developed further and scientifically proven. As it's not scientifically proven, of course there are going to be doubts about it and the theory behind it. When I got my results from Urobiologics I'll be honest and say I let myself get a little carried away being told I would almost definetely get my girl if I conceive this cycle-that's what I wanted to believe but this thread brought me back down to earth. As much as I want to believe something I have to try and be realistic about it. We do have a lot going on in terms or emotions and so desperately wanting our desired gender when we are swaying-I definetely agree with hopingforsaskia on that.
Koko, one question-in your post you said Dr.Verma said there's a 90% chance that firstgender test will also show boy as the pre-gender test showed a boy phase but isn't the first gender test meant to be at least 95% accurate so why is he saying only 90% for this one??

Elle, thanks for your input and support. (Funny that we are grouping in two parties, kinda republicans and demos). Doubting should be well taken but trashing anything without knowledge should be discouraged at any board. That defeats the purpose of honest information exchange.

The line of thoughts which you have right now comes only when you have been there, used them, talked to them, as in my case have actually seen a ton of data by physically meeting them. It is easy to throw mud from distance. That's pure ignorance. They didn't just pull the idea out of thin air and boom!, presented on line. They might have seen some sound basis before investing so much money in filing worldwide patents.

I think you are referring to the results for mary98083 in their live chart. By 90% he means, generally if conception occurs in a specific cycle, one has 90% chance of getting the same gender. I am just guessing that this case is special to them because she got conceived in the same cycle when she collected the PreGender sample. He may have some confidence by experience that most of cases like that get the same gender if they conceive in specific set of hormones. So in this very case conception in boy cycle would lock that hormonal set-up (according to him again) and if he observe same hormonal set up in her Firstgender post-conception sample, I'll be damn sure he will make a perfect line from these two data points and will gain much higher confidence. This way he may have more confidence if one conceives earlier rather than six months later as lot of things might have changed. I can relate by looking at his confidence in case of olga@runbox.com. heck, he even told her that she is having twin daughters and that was right. He may not have that much confidence if she would have conceived six months after testing. May be that is why they say to repeat both the test after six months. I'm also waiting for the news on mary98083's case.

This is going to be very very very interesting.

[5littlegirls]

Not sure what they are getting into these days, but twice for me with two seperate pregnancies I did their fetal gender testing. BOTH WERE WRONG. A Dr Kuldeep Verma was the point of contact there at that time. I would be very cautious of this company based on past experience. They seem to like to dabble into new ideas and use us women as their lab rats, instead of holding an actual trial for accuracy.

Good luck all you swayers out there...

[Koko&TT]

WoW! Did you see that?

Urobiologics posts results for mary98083, a boy with 99% confidence. So they found same hormonal composition in both precon and postcon samples. Would be worth watching. Don't have much to say.

[elle82]

Not sure what they are getting into these days, but twice for me with two seperate pregnancies I did their fetal gender testing. BOTH WERE WRONG. A Dr Kuldeep Verma was the point of contact there at that time. I would be very cautious of this company based on past experience. They seem to like to dabble into new ideas and use us women as their lab rats, instead of holding an actual trial for accuracy.

Good luck all you swayers out there...

OMG!! BOTH were wrong!!! I KNOW I said I wasn't going to stress about this and what would be wold be for us but OMG I suddenly am freaking out over this!!! Don't know what's wrong with me. I want a baby girl so much, I was/am really hoping this test is accurate but I know it's not proven either way and there's definetely no guarantee of getting your desired gender but I can still hope :worry:

[ELP]

It would have been better for uroboilogics if they weren't coming from such a known faulty background as their early dna gender tests, I've heard so many stories of incorrect results. I would find it hard to believe anything they came it with as science even with proof kwim? A bit like the boy who cried wolf.

[Koko&TT]

Not sure what they are getting into these days, but twice for me with two seperate pregnancies I did their fetal gender testing. BOTH WERE WRONG. A Dr Kuldeep Verma was the point of contact there at that time. I would be very cautious of this company based on past experience. They seem to like to dabble into new ideas and use us women as their lab rats, instead of holding an actual trial for accuracy.

Good luck all you swayers out there...

Hi 5littlegirls, sorry to miss your post. Just got carried away in excitement.

Yes that should be of concern. When did that happen? I remember Dr. Verma told us that there were two instances when his accuracy fell from 95% to almost 50% due to internal laboratory problems. He came to know of those much after when wrong reports started pouring in. But now he is in good control and still admitted strange things can happen.

Elle, you are right in that one should be ready for anything. Still, their service and concept appears to be better than other tests in market.

Hope they keep the entry for mary98083 for long there and do not delete it.

[wilma_five]

Ok, now it's clear to me! Totally a scam!
Accuracy fell from 95% to 50%, due to internal laboratory problems? Yeah right!
I'm keeping my money to buy some really expensive baby outfits ;)

[Koko&TT]

Ok, now it's clear to me! Totally a scam!
Accuracy fell from 95% to 50%, due to internal laboratory problems? Yeah right!
I'm keeping my money to buy some really expensive baby outfits ;)

Wilma, we shouldn't say that cuz those instances were very old. like one case he mentioned when they started this test in 1999. They found their test was developed on Indian women, who are mostly vegetarians. they spotted problems with American samples and realized that their old methods cannot be used with non-vegetarians. So they halted testing for two months and reset methods to cover all types of samples. Come on people they honestly admit their mistake and recovered from those things.

What methods are you using to get your girl, Wilma?

Today I have some time to spare so I'll be hanging around a bit lol.

[Koko&TT]

It would have been better for uroboilogics if they weren't coming from such a known faulty background as their early dna gender tests, I've heard so many stories of incorrect results. I would find it hard to believe anything they came it with as science even with proof kwim? A bit like the boy who cried wolf.

I am laughing right now: you wrote 'uroboilogics'

[hopingforsaskia]

What do you have to gain here Koko?? I'm just not sure why you are so vehemently defending - selling - something that clearly you're getting a lot of resistance about? Are you even a swayer...?

[Koko&TT]

What do you have to gain here Koko?? I'm just not sure why you are so vehemently defending - selling - something that clearly you're getting a lot of resistance about? Are you even a swayer...?

Yes, I am a swayer and testing various options. I'm open to anything that works. DH wants to go for only the best. He's that type. And I know 'nothing in this field is best' and all a game of chance.

[wilma_five]

Not sure why you want to kwow which method I'm using but I'm following a diet!

[wilma_five]

Oke Koko, so maybe we can talk your head of urobiologics and talk you into the LE-diet!
Did you look at all the essays Atomic wrote?

[Koko&TT]

Oke Koko, so maybe we can talk your head of urobiologics and talk you into the LE-diet!
Did you look at all the essays Atomic wrote?

No, I haven't. If you offer specific links I'll look into it. If it's workable, I'll consider. Why not?

[BeadinMom]

LOL...this is like deja vu all over again... ;)

Koko, you do realize that you have completely discredited your company on TWO websites now, right? :)

[Koko&TT]

LOL...this is like deja vu all over again... ;)

Koko, you do realize that you have completely discredited your company on TWO websites now, right? :)

I think you are doing a good job. Keep it up.

[hopingforsaskia]

See, you're baffling me again! Why are you on this site if you haven't looked into what's offered here?

[Koko&TT]

I've some clear vision now about my workload at job. The new assignment is more of administrative for two years so that I'll get enough spare time for family.

Wilma, can you post some links about diet you were saying. just want to look into it from medical point of view if it is feasible or not. We got to decide pretty soon which way to go.

[hopingforsaskia]

Just look around the forum.. You'll quickly find what you're looking for. Good luck. Hope it goes well for you.

[Koko&TT]

Just look around the forum.. You'll quickly find what you're looking for. Good luck. Hope it goes well for you.

Thanks I found it. http://genderdreaming.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/Gender_Swaying_Paln.pdf

I didn't know Atomic sagebrush has her own swaying practice and should have been obvious to me why she won't like any other gender planning service to be discussed over here. She has a good team of posters to defend her.

I'm sorry if I offended anyone. I'll still look into it.

[BeadinMom]

Koko, once you look into swaying further, you'll see how RIDICULOUS the Urobiologics claims are.
Stick with Atomic and the principles here and you'll have a MUCH better chance of having your desired gender. :)

We're REALLY not fans of SCAMS here.

[hopingforsaskia]

Koko, once you look into swaying further, you'll see how RIDICULOUS the Urobiologics claims are.
Stick with Atomic and the principles here and you'll have a MUCH better chance of having your desired gender. :)

We're REALLY not fans of SCAMS here.

What she said. :)

We're not defending Atomic, she's totally capable of that herself. The reason Atomic was getting edgy is because we as her swayers are all very important to her. She wants us all to get what we do desire, and has spent thousands of hours working out the best way for that to happen. It's not because Urobiologics steals her thunder (let's face it.. There's not risk of that happening) its because she wants to help people. Unless you want to, there's no costs involved in using the info on this site, so she literally has nothing to gain from pulling the wool over our eyes. I'm sure you can understand that someone waving the things you have under our noses under the guise of opening something up for discussion, could be taken as devious and self interested..

You've said what you wanted to say now.. I think personally you need to let sleeping dogs lie. Leave us all be or join us, but stop peddling your wares here. :)

[Koko&TT]

Atomic Sagebrush,

I have been directed to look into your diet plan for swaying for a gender. I have read everything in these 2.5 hours and will give you my hands on feedback as a first time reader.

1) The article has been well written and presented and as I was going down the column, I found a reference of Dr. Shettles. Frankly speaking, I lost all of my interest by looking at his photograph. For your knowledge, he is a laughing stock in medical communities because many of his theories have failed badly. I would request you to simply remove that.

2) The 'swaying' may tilt my chances of getting a boy may be by 10% at max and that too after going thru a lot of do's and dont's. This looks especially daunting these days because new technologies have come up which offer 'gender specific natural conception' without even asking you what are you eating or how old are you and that too providing 99% assurance as a proof in writing.

Considering all that I would pass on the diet thing at least this time and go for other better options.

I promise, I will not post or discuss anything as to what I did to get my baby boy. Had I known that this site is yours and you are selling diet plans, I would not have discussed urobiologics at all.

Absolutely good wishes with your ambitions.

SC, MD

[wilma_five]

This site is more then diet alone. I have a link so you can see what essay you want to read:
http://genderdreaming.com/forum/gender-swaying-discussion-ttc-boy-girl-home-swaying-info/3305-complete-index.html

I don't understand (probably because I'm not english) what you mean with point 1. Atomic does not believe in shettles. The whole theory is debunked. I know because of Atomic. You can read the essay: the trouble with timing!

[wilma_five]

http://genderdreaming.com/forum/gender-swaying-discussion-ttc-boy-girl-home-swaying-info/7691-trouble-timing.html

[nuthinbutpink]

Atomic Sagebrush,

I have been directed to look into your diet plan for swaying for a gender. I have read everything in these 2.5 hours and will give you my hands on feedback as a first time reader.

1) The article has been well written and presented and as I was going down the column, I found a reference of Dr. Shettles. Frankly speaking, I lost all of my interest by looking at his photograph. For your knowledge, he is a laughing stock in medical communities because many of his theories have failed badly. I would request you to simply remove that.

2) The 'swaying' may tilt my chances of getting a boy may be by 10% at max and that too after going thru a lot of do's and dont's. This looks especially daunting these days because new technologies have come up which offer 'gender specific natural conception' without even asking you what are you eating or how old are you and that too providing 99% assurance as a proof in writing.

Considering all that I would pass on the diet thing at least this time and go for other better options.

I promise, I will not post or discuss anything as to what I did to get my baby boy. Had I known that this site is yours and you are selling diet plans, I would not have discussed urobiologics at all.

Absolutely good wishes with your ambitions.

SC, MD
Your post is ridiculous. The entire post. Everyone knows Shettles wasn't right. You didn't read, nor care to read any of the material on here or you would know that.

There is no 99% natural gender conception. The 99% gender conception is with IVF and PGD. As a "medical doctor" you would know that.

I do not believe who you say you are anymore and if you are the person that sells that product, shame on you. If you keep at it, I will ban you from the site. You're done here.

[elle82]

LOL...this is like deja vu all over again... ;)

Koko, you do realize that you have completely discredited your company on TWO websites now, right? :)

OMG this is crazy!!! I'm not trying to keep this going but I'm just curious BeadinMom what other site did they post on and were they saying pretty much the same as on here??

[hopingforsaskia]

:cheer: Go NBP!

[elle82]

Ok so I said I was going to stay away from this thread but had to come back and post one more time :) I think I went through every emotion since the start of this thread, lol.

I really hope I haven't come across as stupid on here because I bought this test and want to believe there is some truth in it and it COULD work for me. I just really want a baby girl and will try anything but I'm the first to admit that I should be more skeptical. Sometimes when I see the promise of a baby girl my logical thinking just goes out the window and all I see is that 90% percent chance of my dream baby!! And yes I got excited when Urobiologics told me that I will almost definetely get a girl if I conceive this cycle and when I read Koko's posts as an "independent" doctor who wanted to sway herself. Next time I won't fall for anything like this so easy!! But at the end of the day at least I do know my desired gender is not a guarantee even if I do get carried away sometimes and have to remind myself of this but I worry for someone who might really really believe they will definetely get their desired and what they would go through if they did get an opposite.

Koko, I'm really really disappointed if you are Dr.Verma or someone who works for the company. It is one thing to come on here defending/promoting your company but another pretending to be someone else and trying to mess with our minds like that. It is wrong on so many levels and you should be ashamed if this is the case. You are discrediting your company and putting off people that might have considered trying your method. I really wanted to believe you were genuine and wanted to sway like us and I gave you the benefit of the doubt.

I still think Urobiologics is genuine and that Dr.Verma believes this theory but that does not give them any right to come on here or any other website pretending to be someone else and/or being nasty to people. I am very open minded and am all for new theories and would love to see something like Urobiologics being proven but until it is Urobiologics or any other company should not be going around these sites trying to make people doubt everything and giving people who are trying or thinking about trying their method false hope.

Atomic and NBP have nothing to gain by being negative about any of these methods that are out there. They are trying to look out for us. All the info on this site is free and people can come on here and get the info and start swaying without paying for anything. And I can honestly say Atomic is not someone to dismiss things lightly without looking into them. I have a REAL problem with anyone who comes on here being nasty about Atomic, NBP or anyone else on this site. I love it here and have gotten so much support and info since I joined :heart:

I just really hope I haven't made myself look stupid on here :oops:

[wilma_five]

No, you don't look stupid!!!!
I almost paid for this service to. Ik had a long email contact with dr. Verma and I thougt it all sounded very promising. Then I talked to Atomic and that changed my mind. I was blinded by the promise of getting me my so much wanted girl. As you see I have 5 boys so it's really easy to talk me into something!

I do believe he is genuine! But this is so far from proven. Maybe in about 10 years orso.
He should give this service for free an about 250 ttc women. And then we talk again about % of succes.

[hopingforsaskia]

No way do you look stupid!!! :)

[Butterfly Spirit]

Elle82, you don't Look stupid at aLL hon, we aLL faLL for things from time to time. I watched the red cabbage URINE test on you tube for months and I reaLLy beLIeved there was truth to it....I saw maybe one wrong resuLt out of aLL the videos at the time there. I got my good friends hopes up on here, and their tests were bLAring opposites of the gender they were actuaLLy carrying..which wasn't their desired gender. When it was my turn to take the test I had high hopes thinking maybe there were bLIps in their tests or whatever.. but no.. my red cabbage URINE test was a bLAring BOY resuLt.

Then we turn to bLood tests... the Pink or BLue that cLaims to be 95% accurate... again I watched peopLe take it, saw it on news reports and couLdn't wait to get pregnant and try it... weLL... turns out it's not so accurate either! I watched a Lady on youtube who has 5 boys end up with a PINK resuLt.. and they say if it's a girL resuLt it's highLy LIkeLy to be 100%. WeLL she went out and bought a store fuLL of pink.. it was so very sad.
Another girL got a BLUE resuLT and she shocked the crap out of her viewers when she puLLEd a friLLy pink dress out of a bLue bag!!!

Then there's the inteLLigender test, gendermaker..and i couLd go on and on.

You don't Look stupid at aLL hon, companies are getting more and more sLy these days and they pLAy on our hopes!
It seems LIke the onLy reLiabLe gender tests are the one NBP mentioned.. and

We're stiLL waiting on the LAdies on here that are taking the Maternit21 bLood test. I can't remember if Ribbons took hers yet.

So i'LL just stop babbLing because you probabLy can't stand my stupid keyboard anymore..


:HH: Don't worry about it, none of us bLame you!

[BeadinMom]

Absolutely NOT, Elle!! You don't look stupid at all!! We really are easy prey here. And it is very sad when people work on our vulnerability. If I hadn't been researching swaying for as long as I have, I probably would've jumped on the UroB thing, too!! But I've seen some really ugly posts by people who in the end admitted they worked for the company & frankly if they were that unprofessional, in my book their company is worthless...even if they do have a workable theory.
I'd rather invest my money in ions. LOL.

Elle, you are every single one of us...you are hopeful and there is NOTHING stupid about that!! <3

[Butterfly Spirit]

I'd rather invest my money in ions. LOL.


IONS ROCK in my book!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ;)

LOL

[hopingforsaskia]

Elle, you are every single one of us...you are hopeful and there is NOTHING stupid about that!! <3

Exactly! :flowerz:

[Koko&TT]

After a number of discussions and reviews within my family and friends, we have finally ordered our test today. It looked most logical to do.

Best of luck to all ladies who interacted with me. Great sharing knowledge.

[nuthinbutpink]

Koko has left the building. I'm tired of the name dropping/advertising he is doing for his own gain via google.

[elle82]

Love you guys :heart: Totally agree Wilma, maybe in 10 years or so Urobiologics will be more developed and proven.

[BeadinMom]

If you have a legitimate product, you don't need to peddle your wares like a snake oil salesman.

[elle82]

If you have a legitimate product, you don't need to peddle your wares like a snake oil salesman.

Agree Beadin :agree: I am disgusted by how they have went about things. But I do think he believes in his theory and maybe if it's more developed and proven in a few years time it might be worth trying IF there is something behind it.
I really did believe it could possibly work. I suspected Koko could have been someone from the company but wanted to believe she was genuine and give her the benefit of the doubt but after the last few posts there was no doubt in my mind.

[happywsix]

Hello Jadis
I'm not sure about the pretender part of their company but I can assure you that the early gender testing is the TRUTH! I normally don't post on these sites but I had to share my experience. I stumbled up on their website back in 2004 when I was only 6 weeks pregnant. I am from Michigan so I went visit them at their lab personally and I paid $395 for the early gender test, got the results back 3 days later it said male. I had an ultrasound and amnio and both confirmed male. I am raising a happy and healthy 7 year old son. I have recommended them to 4 of my friends and they all used them and they were all right! I am now 10 weeks pregnant again and about to send in my samples again luckily the price has dropped over $100 it's only $249 now so I put a lot of trust into their works and I stand behind them 100% from hands on experience.

[atomic sagebrush]

I just want everyone to know I haven't read this thread past where I stopped posting because it was stressing me out and it was so obvious to me that the person was a shill from the company, and I prefer to spend my time helping actual people rather than getting into senseless arguments

I do want to reiterate that early gender blood tests are possible NOW - but I do not believe this was the case 7 years ago (I ~could~ be wrong on this but I'm pretty sure those have only come out in the last few years). I'm glad it worked for you but of course there was a 50-50 chance that it would even if the test did nothing.

For those who are considering early tests, if you do want to have an early blood gender test, I would be 100% sure you are getting one of the new reliable ones that check DNA, and not one of the pH or progesterone level tests, because those are NOT reliable.

[4girls&counting]

I just want everyone to know I haven't read this thread past where I stopped posting because it was stressing me out and it was so obvious to me that the person was a shill from the company, and I prefer to spend my time helping actual people rather than getting into senseless arguments

I do want to reiterate that early gender blood tests are possible NOW - but I do not believe this was the case 7 years ago (I ~could~ be wrong on this but I'm pretty sure those have only come out in the last few years). I'm glad it worked for you but of course there was a 50-50 chance that it would even if the test did nothing.

For those who are considering early tests, if you do want to have an early blood gender test, I would be 100% sure you are getting one of the new reliable ones that check DNA, and not one of the pH or progesterone level tests, because those are NOT reliable.

Elle82... I would love to know what the results where regarding conception? Just curios on what the results where? And if you followed the theory that that one company suggested?

[atomic sagebrush]

She had a boy. I believe she got pg in the month they told her to.

[elle82]

Yep got pregnant in the month they said would be a girl month for me...added more attempts to my sway to maximise the chances of getting pregnant that month to fit in with the Urobiologics theory and I gave birth to a perfect baby boy on 2nd June.

After I told Urobiologics I was pg they asked me was I sure I conceived when they said. Eh, yeah. I opted not to do the gender test with them. Then they e-mailed me to say they now have a new formula for the test that's more accurate and doesn't give false results etc, etc. When I told them I was having a boy they said they kind of expected that I would have an opposite result.

Urobiologics offered me 2 free tests if I want to try again. I would just have to pay postage.

[atomic sagebrush]

Elle thanks for updating and congrats on your baby! I hope you are feeling well!!!

[elle82]

Thanks Atomic :) We are both doing great :) Am absolutely delighted with my new arrival :DS: It's great to be back on Gender Dreaming :)

[atomic sagebrush]

We're glad to have you back too! :)

[elle82]

I posted my experience with Urobiologics and yes the test failed for me and I was disappointed after spending so much that it hadn't worked. I don't want to influence anyone elses decision on whether or not to use Urobiologics or any other method for that matter. They explained to me that my test failed because it was done under the old system and for some reason they got some opposite results. They are now using a new system and told me that they ran my test again under the new system and they got the opposite result of the first test and they knew it had failed for me and I would have a boy. They claim the success rate is higher with the new system and they have a live chart on their website. They offered to do 2 tests free of charge for me when I am trying again which I appreciate and they have always answered any e-mails and questions I have had for them.

[nuthinbutpink]

I posted my experience with Urobiologics and yes the test failed for me and I was disappointed after spending so much that it hadn't worked. I don't want to influence anyone elses decision on whether or not to use Urobiologics or any other method for that matter. They explained to me that my test failed because it was done under the old system and for some reason they got some opposite results. They are now using a new system and told me that they ran my test again under the new system and they got the opposite result of the first test and they knew it had failed for me and I would have a boy. They claim the success rate is higher with the new system and they have a live chart on their website. They offered to do 2 tests free of charge for me when I am trying again which I appreciate and they have always answered any e-mails and questions I have had for them.

This is absurd and they bad mouth our site on theirs. Very mature of them. They are selling snake oil. It's a joke and I don't believe it works at all. I am closing this thread and refuse to give that guy any more free press.