5 month unsuccessful tic despite bd thru o. What should I drop first?

[heidih1977]

rephresh/ zyrtec (although I still had a fair bit of ecwm) or the supplements?? DH did FR 7 days before first attempt....should we reduce that in case its lowering the sperm count too much or reduce/ eliminate some of his supplements (LR, Cranberry and CalMag)?? I was convinced after trying a few months o+12 that this month was definitely going to work....unfortunately not!:(

[Butterfly Spirit]

When you try to do O+12 you greatly decrease the chance of getting pregnant... the reasons why are the egg only lives so long, and sperm have to go through a maturation process before they can even penetrate an egg.

I never used Zyrtec..Only RepHresh twice the week of ovulation (every 3 days)
and Sylk during BD attempts and DH did FR like daily surrounding my 2 BD attempts.
DH did do Cal, Mag, and Cranberry
I did Vitex, Cal, Mag, and B-50 complex

Best of luck.. my advice is to BD on your + OPK and a day or so after that. :)

[hotdogz&boyz]

If it were me, the first to go would be either the FR or the licorice root. If you are BDing on and thru fertile days and still not getting pregnant, I would first point to the lowered sperm count. It might be too much lowering and the swimmers are just not there to fertilize the egg. Especially if you still have EWCM even with the refresh/zyrtec.

And if this is your first month NOT doing o+12, I wouldn't get too down yet. I would feel more strongly that something needs to change if this was your 3-4th month doing BD through O. But one cycle can just be a fluke. Really, statistically you only have a 25% chAnce of getting pregnant each cycle with BDing through the most fertile time. So it's not terribly surprising that one month wasn't successful. The chances of o+12 resulting in a pregnancy are less than 10%. I believe it is something like 7% but my memory for the exact number is blanking at the moment. I just read it this morning too!

[heidih1977]

Thanks to you both for your response....I really appreciate it! It's great having a website like this to share the 'madness'! I suppose I am just starting to fret unnecessarily about not conceiving. But I find being on the diet and constantly watching what you are eating and the mid month panic about FR and when or when not to BD really quite stressful. If I didn't have all these things to worry about I would take a much more relaxed approach. Our two sons were conceived first time after BD every second day before and during o. This will be our last child so I would very much like to do everything we can to get a little daughter. I was initially planning all the time abstinence (after being on IG for months) only to discover on this website that it can lead to birth defects for couples over 35. I am 35 and DH is 36. Is there point to reducing FR or do you eliminate it altogether and just go for it as and when the mood takes? We ran out of LR last month so DH would have missed two weeks on it. Or maybe reduced abstinence of 5 days or so and then compressed release on the two days of positive OPK?? Gosh who knows!!

[hotdogz&boyz]

If it were me, again you might choose different...I would nix the licorice root all together (if we don't get preggo this cycle, I am nixing it for us too) and do the second option you listed (5 days of abstinence and compressed release on +OPK days). That sounds like a plan that would be the best of both worlds. Give those swimmers *more* of a chance, but not enough to sway blue :) Good luck! I hear ya on the obsessing about diet and when to DTD. It's tough...while all the while trying NOT to stress because it raises testosterone levels! It's nuts. I do know how you feel. This is only our second month and we also conceived both our boys immediately (first was a total oops, second was planned but a one-hit-wonder). Even a couple months can feel like forever when you are used to being fertile. But think of it as a good thing, girls are born to less fertile women!!

[LO123]

Hi Heidih, I hear you also. It is all so stressful knowing what to do. I just got AF after our first month of trying. Not to disppointed being first month and all but now to decide what to do this month. I actually find the diet easier than deciding when to BD and how often. We only did one attempt last month at 2 day cut off. I think with everything else we are doing no wonder I never got pregnant. I agree with hotdogz&boyz I would probably drop the LR first and then BD through O. As it is only going to be my second attempt this month I am still a bit nervous to BD on O. My DS I am pretty sure was an O baby so that makes me nervous. I too wanted to do abstinence but after reading here decided against it. I do wonder though, you can't tell me 7 days abstinence could really be that bad. I am sure many couples over 40 who are having healthy children might have only done it once in a week.

When is your next attempt? Wishing you a BFP and lots of pink.

[heidih1977]

Thanks Hotdogz&boyz....think I will get DH now to stop taking the LR...just read somewhere last night on a thread that Dh should take a break every month anyway....didn't know that! Anyway am still unsure whether it would be best to drop rephresh or zyrtec instead of changing FR to 5 day abstinence in addition. Dh is very good to go along with my plans but I can't expect him to carry on with it for the next 6 months or so...I couldn't do this whole thing for another 6 months either! I find it pretty all engulfing and dread the middle of the month and the end of every month.

Thanks LO123...yeah I too am very nervous about bd through O as our sons were definitely conceived either before or during o! But after three months of trying 0+12 I just want to get pregnant now. Have started on vitex again...am not exactly sure why I did but I do notice my cycle getting longer....last 3 months it has been 33 days where it is usually 30 or 31.....makes the waiting game even longer!!! Will take it until first + opk and then stop for this month. Only on day 3 of cycle so going by the last two months have another 14 days to wait for o...but then vitex might bring that forward somewhat!! How about you...when is your next attempt??

[Lassie1982]

HUGS!!! I know its hard :(

Id say drop the refresh and zyrtec as you are already doing enough to reduce the sperm count through the FR and the LR

Best of luck! Hope it happens soon :fx:

[atomic sagebrush]

I'd always drop frequency first (just have hubby release every 2-4 days and then go for 3-5 attempts in your fertile window of O_2 through O Day). Followed by dropping RepHresh and reduce Zyrtec to one 6 hours before first attempt (and feel free to drop BOTH FR and also RepHresh and keep Zyrtec, or drop all three - there's no right or wrong way to do this.)

[atomic sagebrush]

PS - I agree with hotdogz because it may just not have been your month this month.

[atomic sagebrush]

Thanks to you both for your response....I really appreciate it! It's great having a website like this to share the 'madness'! I suppose I am just starting to fret unnecessarily about not conceiving. But I find being on the diet and constantly watching what you are eating and the mid month panic about FR and when or when not to BD really quite stressful. If I didn't have all these things to worry about I would take a much more relaxed approach. Our two sons were conceived first time after BD every second day before and during o. This will be our last child so I would very much like to do everything we can to get a little daughter. I was initially planning all the time abstinence (after being on IG for months) only to discover on this website that it can lead to birth defects for couples over 35. I am 35 and DH is 36. Is there point to reducing FR or do you eliminate it altogether and just go for it as and when the mood takes? We ran out of LR last month so DH would have missed two weeks on it. Or maybe reduced abstinence of 5 days or so and then compressed release on the two days of positive OPK?? Gosh who knows!!

No one does, that's the thing about swaying. We can't say for sure how much or IF any of these things even sway, so at some point you have to pick something out of a hat if you need to and just go for it with emphasis on getting pg, because if you don't get pg you have zero chance of your DG. Not trying to scare you but at 35 you don't have time to waste and you need to get pg relatively soon because at some point it's the last fresh egg in the carton.

Can you please clarify what you mean when you say DH would have missed two weeks on LR??? DH is supposed to take LR 2W on, 2W off, and if you were giving it to him nonstop, that may have affected his sperm count/quality very severely.

[heidih1977]

Thanks a million for your input Atomic...much appreciated! Yes he was taking it all the time....I wasn't aware it was 2 ww on and then 2 ww off......sorry I must have missed that somewhere...keeping up with everything you should be doing and taking every month is pretty much information overload! So when he ran out we had a gap of about 2 weeks before I got more LR. He has been taking it now the last few weeks through so I told him yesterday to give it a break. Should O in the next 11-13 days so should he stay off it now and then after O start taking it again for the following two weeks?? I also hear you on the age front. I know after 35 your chances of getting pregnant at all reduce rapidly to something like 20% per month so I am just wondering doing everything we are doing it must be reducing the chances even more! So is giving LR a break now enough or should I have him reduce the FR to maybe 4 days before O and then bd through the 3 most fertile days?? And keep doing rephresh and taking zyrtec up till O? Or doing a short abstinence of 4 or 5 days and then compressed FR during the fertile days? Thanks so much again!

[atomic sagebrush]

Crazily, your chances are 20% when young and fully fertile and then they drop from there!!! "Research has shown that women under the age of 25 stand a 20-25% chance of conception occurring in each cycle for those actively trying.* By the time a woman reaches 35, her chances of conceiving drops to 15% each cycle. And by age 40, it plummets to a mere 5% per cycle." Additionally the rates of miscarriage go up significantly too so for someone like me who got pg at 41, I had 2% chance of pg and half of those pg are lost - that's why I don't want anyone to linger too long swaying, even young people! That time flies by and each of us has a different timetable - some people are done with menopause by 40 while others keep ovulating until their 50's or even beyond (at some point they can no longer conceive.)

the proper time to take the LR is from your CD 1- CD 14 then he needs a break regardless of what day you O. I would not have him start the LR again until after you get your period after this cycle. LR is our most dangerous supp and it's just not worth the risk; besides that, it will stay in his body for awhile anyway and keep working its charms. You may even want to have his blood pressure checked to make sure it didn't go up while he was on the LR nonstop.

I would try for a month with no LR and keeping everything else the same, and then hope for BFP this month.

A lot of people had to drop RepHresh to get pg and I would have you drop it this month and keep the Zyrtec for now, but reduce dosage to one, 6 hours before first attempt.

[heidih1977]

Ok great thanks for the advice Atomic...will give your suggestion a try this month. One question though should I take the zyrtec only before the first attempt or also the day of first positive OPK? Thanks so much again!

[LO123]

Hi heidih, how are you going with deciding what to do? Great to get advice from Atomic. I am CD7 and usually O CD16. I am really confused what to do this month. DH is o/s back Saturday so will have to ask him to start FR while he is away. He is already over the whole swaying thing so I feel like he might just say yes but then not do it. He would do this to keep me happy but not realising how important it is. He just believes we will have another boy anyway as it is all boys on his side of the family. Are you going to continue with the FR? What will you change this month?

[heidih1977]

Hi LO123, yes getting DH to start FR tonight although we are actually late starting. I am on CD9 and the last few months had O on CD17 but started taking vitex at the start of this month so that might push O forward in which case we won't get 7 FRs in before first attempt. Have had him drop LR and will not use rephresh this time either. This will be the 6th month at all this and it's starting to wear me out. I doubt zyrtec had any negative effect because I definitely would have conceived my boys taking this...due to allergies here in spring/ summer, so will take some of that too. Will BD again this time through ovulation. I suppose because DH and I are just over 35 we can't afford to do too many sways which affect fertility....I just hope that the diet and all the other changes will be enough to sway! Hopefully it works this month!!!

[fish2012]

hey hun,

I''d drop the FR (atomic on another post said drop this before LR)

You kinda have remember your odds were o small for the first four attempts this is sorta like a first attempt.... this is kinda what happened to me too my first two months we did cut off now we're on third attempt of dtd right over o and still waiting ;-S

If you still have ecwm I'd leave your supplments and change on thing at a time

:hugs:

this whole thing sucks xx

[riss177]

I see that you've received plenty of answers, but I just thought I would throw in what I did when I got a BFP. I finally got a BFP after our 4th try. For this attempt, I stopped taking Zyrtek every day and took it every other day instead. DH also stopped taking licorice root and Sudafed. DH did FR (once daily). I don't know whether I'm having a boy or girl yet though. Best of luck!

[heidih1977]

Thanks Fish2012 for your advice. Am sticking with the supplements but DH needed a break from LR so he has dropped that. AS for dropping the FR am too afraid...our two sons were conceived bd every second from CD 10 to CD 18 so don't want to do anything like that again! Also as we are over 35 I am too afraid to risk abstinence....it's a tough call and yes this whole thing sucks big time!

Thanks very much riss177...am a little confused now what to do after receiving differing advice. DH has stopped LR for now and will reduce the zyrtec as well this month. DH started FR last night...might only be 5 or 6 times before first attempt though. Question did you use refresh....this is what I am really not sure about?? Was planning on dropping it this month but am just worried if I am doing enough to sway then. I am only taking vitex, one cranberry tablet and folic acid other than that I just have the diet....which I am so sick of....skin has got really bad and I generally feel so unhealthy!! DH is taking cal/mag and 1 cranberry tablet a day too. Huge congrats on your BFP...fingers crossed you will get what you want.

[riss177]

Heidi ~ This is what I did the month that we conceived:

- Mostly strict LE diet (until we went out of town and I messed up).
- I ended up being at my lowest weight in 5+ years.
- folic acid 3x's daily, baby aspirin every other day, saw palmetto and vitex from AF-O (I stopped vitex a few days before I thought I would O. I stopped SP shorty after vitex when we went out of town, but I hadn't ovulated yet).
- Zyrtek every other day.
- Dh took cranberry. He stopped taking licorice root, sudafed and using heating pad this attempt.
- Rephresh every 3 days. We always dtd at night and I used rephresh in the morning. So, on the days I used Rephresh I had waited 12 hours before dtd.
- Used Sylk with most attempts.
- No O. Mid-release.
- No jump and dump.
- DH had released 17 days in a row (once daily).

We stopped dtd when we went out of town. I had not ovulated yet. I don't know when I ovulated because I stopped my sway and checking ov sticks completely when I went out of town. I guess I was just frustrated and gave up for a week. I could kick myself in the bum for that, lol! Of course I get pregnant when my sway goes wrong! Anyway, we must have conceived sometime while out of town. So, I guess we did an unintentional cut-off.

This link will take you to my sway plan journey, LOL! And all the questions Atomic answered for me. http://genderdreaming.com/forum/review-my-swaying-plan/9294-update-bfp-riss177s-sway-plan-0-a.html

Thanks for the congrats! Good luck with your sway!

[heidih1977]

Wow riss177 what a great sway! 17 times FR....my goodness you guys were busy!! :) We would never manage that often! I am sure you will get your little girl after all that! Thanks very much for all the information. Hopefully this month will work out for me.

[atomic sagebrush]

Ok great thanks for the advice Atomic...will give your suggestion a try this month. One question though should I take the zyrtec only before the first attempt or also the day of first positive OPK? Thanks so much again!

Only before first attempt. If you hadn't gone so long without getting pg I would have you take another one, but it's time to pull the trigger and conceive!

[atomic sagebrush]

Re RepHresh, I may have mentioned this already but quite a few people could not get pg while using RepHresh and had to drop it all together in order to conceive.

I think you should increase your folic acid intake to 1200-1600 mcg a day rather than just one. This can help you make a good egg and also for that egg to develop properly.

[riss177]

Wow riss177 what a great sway! 17 times FR....my goodness you guys were busy!! :) We would never manage that often! I am sure you will get your little girl after all that! Thanks very much for all the information. Hopefully this month will work out for me.

Thanks! 17 days in a row was very difficult, but dh was a trooper! I hope this month works out for you, too!!

[heidih1977]

Thanks atomic. Increased my folic acid dosage a week ago so hopefully that will help with everything. DISASTER this month! O came early...had a positive OPK yesterday and then we DTD yesterday around 3 pm and again at 10 pm after only 4 FR on the previous 4 days. OPK was negative this morning so O has passed....4 days early....guess thats down to the vitex. Used a tiny bit of sylk with first attempt but now reckon that there will be no BFP this month after only two tries and both close together so doubt DH swimmers will have had enough time to regenerate to work!! Can't believe I will be facing another month of this whole routine!!!! :(

[atomic sagebrush]

You never know!! Good luck!

[heidih1977]

Hi Atomic,

I feel AF approaching so its another BFN for me this month....had a feeling it wasn't going to work this month again. I took vitex last month CD1 through to CD12. I had O CD13/CD14 so vitex definitely pushes O forward for me and reduces cycle length to 29 days instead of my last few cycles being 33 days. Is this the desired effect or what is the exact point of vitex? Skin and PMS have definitely got worse since I started this sway 5 or 6 months ago. I would normally know how to deal with it by good diet and exercise but that's obviously all boy friendly. Just wondering should I take vitex again this cycle or leave it?? Also the few days before AF is due every month I get some moody and anxious...obviously in anticipation of whether I am pregnant or not...I also sleep really badly those few days. I was just wondering if I could start running again...when I got pregnant with my two boys I had a super healthy diet and ran maybe once or twice a week. I know excessive exercise sways girl, but I really don't have the time or energy to run 5 or 6 times a week. Would 3 or 4 times be ok....and still in girl sway territory...I just feel some exercise will help with the mood and generally coping with the strain of successive BFNs. Thanks a lot!

[atomic sagebrush]

Vitex alters hormones in a pink friendly way and tends to change cycles at the same time. We don't know if it's a side effect of the vitex or if that's actually what sways somehow.

Vitex did give me PMS and then for others, alleviates it.

If you're going bonkers, try taking a month off hte Vitex - a lot of us didn't get pg while taking the vitex and then got pg the month we dropped it.

Skin problems while swaying are here:http://genderdreaming.com/forum/gender-swaying-discussion-ttc-boy-girl-home-swaying-info/5166-mouth-sores-zits.html

Exercise is at your discretion. the 60 6/7 guideline is just the level that I think will work for most people most of the time. It may be that you can get by with less exercise - personally 3-4 days of exercise feels risky to me (moderate exercise tends tos way blue) but if you're miserable, it may be worth the risk.

[heidih1977]

Ok thanks again atomic. Would you recommend we continue with fr approach. I have dropped vitex and cranberry for myself this month and also dh is not back on LR yet. Was also planning on dropping zyrtec this month but instead using some rephresh around cd 10 or 11 before bd starts. Just afraid dropping too much will make for a very weak sway. Am also home visiting my family so sticking to diet is proving rather difficult with my mother serving up one meat dish after another!!!!! Thanks again for all your help and advice...it's invaluable!!