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weeziewoozles
October 27th, 2012, 02:40 PM
Is there a TTC November thread? If not, shall we start one? AF arrived for me today after a 36 day cycle so as you can imagine, my hopes were up! Fingers crossed for this cycle as my BMI is under 19 now, so I don't want to lose any more weight. Plan for this month is to use better OPKs (any recommendations would be appreciated) plus temping plus trying to maintain my weight rather than lose any more. So wanna succeed this month!:think:

cravingsalt
October 27th, 2012, 05:11 PM
Hi Weezie! Sorry to hear about AF, that really stinks after such a long cycle. Some of the girls are here: http://genderdreaming.com/forum/ttc-girl/15579-ttc-november-come.html

Mum23boys
October 28th, 2012, 11:09 AM
Good luck weezie im still in the oct 2ww - ff kept saying im 12dpo but ive changed it to 11dpo to give me that extra day as i got a BFN this morning despite always getting my BFP's at 10dpo. Im not holding out much hope but will test again wed am as thats when AF is due and she usually comes half way through the day

weeziewoozles
October 28th, 2012, 11:12 AM
Good luck weezie im still in the oct 2ww - ff kept saying im 12dpo but ive changed it to 11dpo to give me that extra day as i got a BFN this morning despite always getting my BFP's at 10dpo. Im not holding out much hope but will test again wed am as thats when AF is due and she usually comes half way through the day

Oooh fingers crossed for you x

KraizyDaizy
October 28th, 2012, 02:44 PM
Hi ladies! Good luck!

Praying4Pink
October 29th, 2012, 10:02 AM
Sending you ladies loads of prayers for BFP's this cycle! I can't wait for you all to join me in the June/July/August thread!

Mum23boys
October 29th, 2012, 04:45 PM
booooooo - Im on to November. AF has reared her ugly head this afternoon so tomorrow will be CD1

weeziewoozles
October 30th, 2012, 04:42 AM
booooooo - Im on to November. AF has reared her ugly head this afternoon so tomorrow will be CD1

I'm sure this month will be our BFP month!

KraizyDaizy
October 30th, 2012, 08:28 AM
CD15 for me and I really think I Oed yesterday like my smiley OPK and Peak on my monitor said. Felt major pains last night. We got in two really good attempts yesterday and was hoping to try this am, but it just did not happen. I am very hopeful this month, trying to be positive..

If anyone has VIP FF, send me an invite because mine VIP has run out and I am determined not to buy another membership cause this will be my month, I hope. Or I can send you an invite to get some free days. My name of course is KraizyDaizy. Make sure you use a Z and not an S LOL!!!

Mrs_P
October 30th, 2012, 04:16 PM
Ok - found you all - am here to cheer :cheerteam: come on ladies lots of lovely bfp's please we have plenty of room left in the due date club for some new little lovelies x

Mum23boys
October 30th, 2012, 04:32 PM
CD15 for me and I really think I Oed yesterday like my smiley OPK and Peak on my monitor said. Felt major pains last night. We got in two really good attempts yesterday and was hoping to try this am, but it just did not happen. I am very hopeful this month, trying to be positive..

If anyone has VIP FF, send me an invite because mine VIP has run out and I am determined not to buy another membership cause this will be my month, I hope. Or I can send you an invite to get some free days. My name of course is KraizyDaizy. Make sure you use a Z and not an S LOL!!!

iTS ASKING FOR AN EMAIL ADDRESS HUN - DO U WANT TO MESSAGE ME ?

weeziewoozles
October 30th, 2012, 04:44 PM
Ok - found you all - am here to cheer :cheerteam: come on ladies lots of lovely bfp's please we have plenty of room left in the due date club for some new little lovelies x

Thanks for staying with us!

fish2012
October 31st, 2012, 06:35 AM
ah couldn't work out where everyone had gone ;-)

really can't stop eating last few days.......dho,,,,,,,,

mummyof3<3
October 31st, 2012, 01:24 PM
Hi all good luck im 6dpo this is our 5th month of trying, fingers crossed for you all xx

meeks32
October 31st, 2012, 11:06 PM
Hi everyone, lost you in TTC October thread!

I'm 9DPO and dying to know if we conceived this month. Sway went well but I've ironed out a few things now and one silly mistake DH forgot to hot bath before our ONE abstain attempt (DAMN IT!!!!). Feel like I hope we conceived so I can eat again, and stop obsessing, but also kind of hoping we didn't as I've learned so much more this month!!

Also the 2 days my salt and protein was above the recommended levels were the day of and the day before O. DAMN DAMN. But they were still waaaaay lower than with my 2 sons, and no multivitamins etc this time so really hope thats in our favour. I just know the moment I conceive, i'll swap to obsessing over is it a boy or is it a girl! But at least i'll have lots of fruit and veg to comfort me. Am really missing having a varied diet where I counted calories only, not nutritional content (or lack thereof).

How is everyone else going? I've been a POAS addict, testing often twice a day, even though I know its early. That's how over the diet I am, and it's only my second month ttc. I feel guilty for not dealing better as I see some have been going longer. I guess it proves how opposite my diet was before, that I struggle now. So that can only be a good thing?

KraizyDaizy
November 1st, 2012, 08:40 AM
3DPO and worried we did not catch the egg again this month even though we DTD on O day.

Praying for you all...

meeks32
November 2nd, 2012, 05:30 PM
Oh no! 11dpo and my bbt has dipped below cover line for 2nd time this cycle. First at 6dpo could have been implantation but I can't see me being pg with 2 dip's.
Having blueberry pancakes this morning as a pity party, not very helpful to my sway!

:-(

Violet_
November 2nd, 2012, 07:06 PM
Hi girls, I'm also trying for pink this month. I'm a little confused about when exactly I O'd but I think it was 1st November so here's hoping. We had a chemical pregnancy last month so I'm trying not to get my hopes up too much this month. I don't feel pregnant. So not holding out a lot of hope this month. Sounds terrible, I sound so negative but I usually know pretty early as I get dramatic symptoms early on when I am pregnant. Really suffer and get very sick. Do I really want to go through this again? Not really. But I DO want another baby/child. Good luck everyone.

meeks32
November 3rd, 2012, 01:01 AM
Violet I totally agree on the whole not wanting to go through it again, yet wanting the end result! I also get very early symptoms (was sick from day 1 with ds1, and about when I missed my period for ds2) and I don't 'feel it' this time either. I hate the low nutrient diet too, I always watch my calories but usually eat more veggies and fruit and snack frequently. No wonder I have boys!

mydream
November 3rd, 2012, 01:34 AM
Just wanted to Send tons of PINK dust and positive vibes ... Hoping to see lots of Nov BFP's.

meeks32
November 3rd, 2012, 05:08 AM
I'm out. AF arrived way early, my cycle is 34 days and its come on day 29! Grrrr. That explains the second bbt dip. Guess girls really are harder to conceive, my ds1 was conceived on the pill and ds2 1st cycle off it. I don't mind waiting but the diet kills me! Only 2kg to loose before I'm underweight. Not sure how long I can keep it up...

Kellann
November 5th, 2012, 11:15 PM
AF should be here any day now! I had a major temp drop today and I saw a little pink in my CM when checking this morning. Come on November!

meeks32
November 5th, 2012, 11:38 PM
AF should be here any day now! I had a major temp drop today and I saw a little pink in my CM when checking this morning. Come on November!

:-( fingers crossed it was implantation. I was devastated this month when AF arrived, didn't want to believe it. Have decided its good as it gives me more time to improve on my diet and bigger gap between ds2 and whoever comes next, but hoping November is my month too!

Good luck!

Nachelle
November 7th, 2012, 12:00 AM
Hello Ladies! My name is Nachelle or Chellie. I am a former IG member. I am currentlly TTC a girll after 3 crazy boys. :) I recently had a miscarriage in Sept. It was twins one was in my uterus and one was in my left tube. The baby in my uterus miscarried naturally and then I had to get my tube removed. We were going to wait a little bit to try to conceive, but Im scarredSomething is going to happen to my right, so I feel like I want to try before its too late.

I have been TRYING to do a diet for about 4-6 weeks now, a bunch of slips in between but more strict the past 2 weeks, I have been using progesterone oil, vitamin e, zinc, follic acid, vitamin c, and I was taking calcium and mag but now im not sure if I should take it anymore.(Im also BF so I cant do everything) Do you ladies think these are good or should I be adding anything else. Ive also added replens to my sway and more of a calm attitude about it. :) I was hetic trying to do everything perfect. Also gotta ove the ions! he he

So I guess compared to most Im prob considered a lazy swayer, but I have high hopes for my baby girl! I know shes out there Ive been patiently waiting! :) Well I hope I can join you gals on a journey of swaying for a pink bundle of joy! :)

mountainviews
November 7th, 2012, 01:22 AM
Hi Chellie, there are a lot of suppliments recommended on IG but some people say not to use any because they make you too healthy. Low nutrition sways girl. I would also add lime or vinegar before BD and then follow up with rephresh, replens or aci-gel. Also, I would do something to lower sperm count: abstinence or FR. I'm from IG too and I'm wondering if anyone else has come over here. We used to have a thread for ttc in summer or fall of 2012. Is there anyone else who used to post on that thread? Tiff started a thread in the pregnancy section and we have been posting there. It's nice to see some old friends and make new ones at the same time. Here's the link to Tiff's thread: http://genderdreaming.com/forum/due-date-buddies/17405-ttc-girl-summer-fall-2012-now-spring-due-date-group-3.html#post285245

meeks32
November 7th, 2012, 02:39 AM
Chelae, welcome, I'm an IG refugee too, from 3 months ago. It took me ages to agree, but I would get rid of everything you are taking supplement wise, except folic acid. All nutrients increase fertility, which in turn sways boy. If you want to feel like you are doing so,etching, have dh take the calc mag and cranberry to lower his ph, but that's kind of debunked here too.

I can't let go od cranberry yet so I'm taking that and dh takes calc mag and cran. But all else I scrapped.

Here they say antihistamine 2hrs prior to bd is ok. Mainly they say baby aspirin, folic acid and a fibre supplement. Diet is biggest weight in swaying, atomic will weigh In too for sure, but diet first, then frequency (abstain if under 35, fr if over). Timing doesn't count either!

Good luck!

KraizyDaizy
November 7th, 2012, 09:15 AM
Not happy about my temp drop today, but both BBT's seem to be not working correctly grrrrh!!!

mummyof3<3
November 7th, 2012, 02:53 PM
AF due tomorrow no cramps yet but slight backache :/ fingers crossed for you all x

6boysneedasis
November 7th, 2012, 03:53 PM
A. Vogel Prostasan Saw Palmetto - 30 Capsules - Boots (http://www.boots.com/en/A-Vogel-Prostasan-Saw-Palmetto-30-Capsules_981164/)

Is this the right kind of saw palmetto anybody? I've been taking it for a few days but someone mentioned standardized??

MotherSurrogate
November 8th, 2012, 12:34 AM
A. Vogel Prostasan Saw Palmetto - 30 Capsules - Boots (http://www.boots.com/en/A-Vogel-Prostasan-Saw-Palmetto-30-Capsules_981164/)

Is this the right kind of saw palmetto anybody? I've been taking it for a few days but someone mentioned standardized??

I take Saw Palmetto as well, but may I ask does this help swaying for pink?

weeziewoozles
November 8th, 2012, 05:07 AM
Hey ladies. Let's hope we have a BFP filled month. I decided to chart my temps as well as use OPKs this month as I messed up my timing so badly last cycle. Well I say I messed up, but I won't take any blame as my body decided to give me a 36 day cycle! So awaiting my basal thermometer now as I've bought more expensive OPKs this time and don't want to waste them if I'm nowhere near O. Do you think I should assume a normal cycle again or not bother testing till later? We did FR and DTD a week early last time. Then stopped and O came and went without us TTC! Frustrating. Anyhow, at least we didn't unknowingly DTD on O having stopped FR, antihistamine, rephresh etc! That would have been rather a blue sway methinks. X

Nachelle
November 8th, 2012, 09:11 AM
Thanks ladies! Its nice to hear theres some IG vets! lol I think Im going to drop the calcium, mag and vit C, but Im going to keep the follic acid, zinc and vitamin E due to the fact I had an etopic and I have read those are good for preventing another one since my chances are now greater. I have also been using replens and progesterone oil and we were doing FR but DH is seeming to have a prob with both FR and abstaining. llol SO were in boy terriority for that right now. Next month will prob be better. My BBT is saying I ovulated on CD10, so I have no clue whats going on. Plus Im usually in the 97's and I have been tempting in 98's. So we'lll see what happens. Welll I hope we alll get BFP by christmas. THat would be the best present ever! Plus it would be a cute way to suprise DH, wrap up the test! :) FX for a baby that comes with a llittle pink hat at the hospital not blue!!! ha ha

IsabelB23
November 8th, 2012, 09:17 AM
Hi,

Im planning on swaing pink this month.
I have taken calcium and mag supp (100% daily dosage), stopped between O and AF because I don't know if I got pregnant last month and don't want to harm the baby with too much minerals he doesn't need.
I don't eat redmeat, tomatoes, potatoes... and eat a lot of veggie food, with fish or chicken/turkey.
Planning on DTD 3 days before O and O+12h.
Didn't know if I should get aci-jel since everyone talks about it as the perfect girl sway. Can I use it as a lube? I will use rephresh every 3 days, 12h to 30min before dtd and right after dtd. Should I combine it with aci jel? eveyone sais it has a factor that helps girl swing, that is acetic acid... what do you think?
And how about milk??? I thought i should drink as many milk as I could and yogurts.... do you have any thing written for a good girl swing?

looking forward to you answers,
thank you

IsabelB23
November 8th, 2012, 09:23 AM
Chelae, welcome, I'm an IG refugee too, from 3 months ago. It took me ages to agree, but I would get rid of everything you are taking supplement wise, except folic acid. All nutrients increase fertility, which in turn sways boy. If you want to feel like you are doing so,etching, have dh take the calc mag and cranberry to lower his ph, but that's kind of debunked here too.

I can't let go od cranberry yet so I'm taking that and dh takes calc mag and cran. But all else I scrapped.

Here they say antihistamine 2hrs prior to bd is ok. Mainly they say baby aspirin, folic acid and a fibre supplement. Diet is biggest weight in swaying, atomic will weigh In too for sure, but diet first, then frequency (abstain if under 35, fr if over). Timing doesn't count either!

Good luck!

So FR or abst relating to DH age, right? I would have to go for FR, which was actually the one I was going for... When do you have a sway plan here? I was on IG as well :) So calcium and mag supp are out of the question? I just bought them... ahahah.... what about drinking 6 glasses of milk per day?!

6boysneedasis
November 8th, 2012, 09:34 AM
I take Saw Palmetto as well, but may I ask does this help swaying for pink?

Apparently Saw Palmetto reduces testosterone levels which helps to sway pink :pinksperm:

Nachelle
November 8th, 2012, 10:41 AM
6064
Does anybody have any input on my chart? DO you think that I already ovulated or that I havent yet?

mummyof3<3
November 8th, 2012, 11:45 AM
AF due today no show so far :-)

Nachelle
November 8th, 2012, 11:58 AM
Yay! Have you taken any tests?

Nachelle
November 8th, 2012, 12:02 PM
Ok really weird now, My chart says I sup. Ovulated on CD 10 but I have a positive OPK and fering on my scope. What the heck....so confused!

mountainviews
November 8th, 2012, 01:34 PM
Hi,

Im planning on swaing pink this month.
I have taken calcium and mag supp (100% daily dosage), stopped between O and AF because I don't know if I got pregnant last month and don't want to harm the baby with too much minerals he doesn't need.
I don't eat redmeat, tomatoes, potatoes... and eat a lot of veggie food, with fish or chicken/turkey.
Planning on DTD 3 days before O and O+12h.
Didn't know if I should get aci-jel since everyone talks about it as the perfect girl sway. Can I use it as a lube? I will use rephresh every 3 days, 12h to 30min before dtd and right after dtd. Should I combine it with aci jel? eveyone sais it has a factor that helps girl swing, that is acetic acid... what do you think?
And how about milk??? I thought i should drink as many milk as I could and yogurts.... do you have any thing written for a good girl swing?

looking forward to you answers,
thank you

Aci-jel and vinegar douche are great for ttc girl because of the acetic acid. You could use vinegar douche before and aci-jel after if you want to. I think you can also use aci-jel as a lube.

mountainviews
November 8th, 2012, 01:56 PM
Ok really weird now, My chart says I sup. Ovulated on CD 10 but I have a positive OPK and fering on my scope. What the heck....so confused!

If you have a positive OPK then you are ovulating now. On your chart it is the high temp on cd11 that is making FF say that you ovulated. If you change that to something similar to cd10 then it should fix your ovulation day. Good luck!

Nachelle
November 8th, 2012, 02:15 PM
Thanks!!! Well its going to be harder for me to get pregnant since I have one tube. I will only be able to every other month and I willl not know which month is which. So I think Im going to try to do a fluke sway this month and see what happens. Worse that can happen is I either wont get pregnant or Ill have a boy loll And if that happenes at least Illl have an even number of them, then they wont gang up on each other 2 to 1! llol So Fx for a pink blessing!!!

mummyof3<3
November 8th, 2012, 02:55 PM
Not taken test yet in London visiting my sister so will have to wait till i get home Saturday , i did do a test on tues (12dpo) before i left home which was BFN.. So just have to wait and see good luck To all you lovely ladies xx

Nachelle
November 8th, 2012, 03:09 PM
Fingers crossed and have fun on your trip!!!

IsabelB23
November 9th, 2012, 10:32 AM
Mountainviews, thank you! But isnt it known that to some people the acetic acid raises ph? I haven't tired last cycle and I want to TTC this month, so maybe it is risky to try it without knowing what it does... or can I see what happens in the early days of the cycle, after AF, and what happens then will happen during O- lower or raise my ph?

What do you think about supp? I have heard that it can have the effect of swaing boy, because you body will be nourished, and well, when for a girl you have to "starve" ahahah
and milk? it is said raise a certain hormone you dont want to swaying girl... what did you do?

mummyof3<3
November 9th, 2012, 11:25 AM
Took a test today BFN.. Yer a day late how frustrating either AF is late and will show up anytime or hcg levels aren't high enough yet hate not knowing :/

KraizyDaizy
November 9th, 2012, 12:49 PM
mummy you are not out til the old hag shows her ugly face, so keep positive. Praying for you..

mummyof3<3
November 9th, 2012, 03:07 PM
Thank you keeping everything crossed just wish i knew 1 way or the other its torture not knowing lol going to hold off from testing untill Sunday if i can good luck to you all

hopingforsaskia
November 9th, 2012, 03:41 PM
Oh Mummy!! I hope this is it for you! Are you temping? Any clues there?

I'm cd10 today.. 6 day abstain so far. It's going to be funny when I tell DH we aren't doing it again for another however many days til I ovulate... Haha! :D

Hi to all the new peeps! Just by way of an FYI - Atomic probably wont check this thread for Q's. ;) :)

I can't remember who asked about milk.. It's not good for girl swaying at all.. There's lots of protein in milk (and fat, depending on the type you're drinking) and it will raise your blood sugar level and keep it elevated - which we don't want. Atomic isn't a fan at all of lots of milk. A little bit in a coffee is probably all that would be recommended. Definitely not 6 glasses a day. ;)

Whoever asked about frequency ... If your DH is having issues with abstain AND frequent, maybe try compressed frequent release.. It's still early for me so I won't try and explain it.. But if you look in the essays, there is one on the different types of frequency you can use and it's perhaps a more doable one for you and your DH. :)

hopingforsaskia
November 9th, 2012, 03:45 PM
Kelann... Hope AF stays away... :) fx'd

Meeks, I'm really sorry she came. I know I'd be devo too.. :( have you upped your cals a bit more to stave off the weightloss? My friend is swaying hard at the moment too, and she is literally skin and bones. She's had to go up to 1850cals to stabilize, and even then she's still losing very very slowly.. Boy mum metabolism eh?! ;)

Kraizy how you doing?

IsabelB23
November 9th, 2012, 03:52 PM
I'm sorry, since this is called TTC in November and since it is what I am doing I thought I was in the right place!

hopingforsaskia
November 9th, 2012, 04:47 PM
Isabel don't be sorry!!!! :) just if you need atomic's help she may miss your questions here! :) :) everyone on any thread is happy to help.

hopingforsaskia
November 9th, 2012, 04:50 PM
I edited my reply after re reading it ... Hehe :o sounded a bit snippety didn't it?! :)

hopingforsaskia
November 9th, 2012, 05:26 PM
Isabel, have you started your sway yet? What is your plan? :)

mummyof3<3
November 9th, 2012, 05:38 PM
Oh Mummy!! I hope this is it for you! Are you temping? Any clues there?

I'm cd10 today.. 6 day abstain so far. It's going to be funny when I tell DH we aren't doing it again for another however many days til I ovulate... Haha! :D

Hi to all the new peeps! Just by way of an FYI - Atomic probably wont check this thread for Q's. ;) :)

I can't remember who asked about milk.. It's not good for girl swaying at all.. There's lots of protein in milk (and fat, depending on the type you're drinking) and it will raise your blood sugar level and keep it elevated - which we don't want. Atomic isn't a fan at all of lots of milk. A little bit in a coffee is probably all that would be recommended. Definitely not 6 glasses a day. ;)

Whoever asked about frequency ... If your DH is having issues with abstain AND frequent, maybe try compressed frequent release.. It's still early for me so I won't try and explain it.. But if you look in the essays, there is one on the different types of frequency you can use and it's perhaps a more doable one for you and your DH. :)

No not temping so guess its just a waiting game im usually quite regular and never more than a day or 2 late so should know soon enough will be taking another test on Sunday if AF stays away xx

IsabelB23
November 10th, 2012, 08:32 AM
Hi!
Hopingforsaskia, I am on day one of my cycle, just started my period, which will make my O nex to the 22nd this month!
But I'm feeling kind of lost on the diet because until now I was betting everything on daily food, mainly milk, yogurt and ice cream, supp of calcium mag and cranberry, chicken, rice.... Now I hear is no good? Supp will make you healthy which sways boy? and milk isn't good either.... completely lost!
I will monitor my ph, planning on using rephresh every 3 days and on day of BD, aci jel maybe 2 hr before too.... dont know if should use something after to help ph go lower... lime or vinegar douche seems to agressive to my vj... don't know if I should go there...
Abour frequency of BD... anytime whe want... I really dont think timing matters since I've seen parents of boys bd on girl timming and vice versa.... I will most deff avoid BD on EWCM, but low ph and diet should avoid that anyway - this last cycle, the 1st with diet and supp, i hardly had any EWCM..
As for ions... well my o will be close to a full moon, i have anion pads, lavender oil diffuser, rose quartz, smoky quartz, black tourmaline as bracelets on me all the time! oh and one of those ions for pc! Hvae a fish tank just outside, many plants at home...

squamgirl
November 10th, 2012, 09:26 AM
Hey ladies- I'd like to join you in TTC in November.
My name is Cortney. I have two boys and am hoping to give my boys the sister they've been asking for and the daughter that we've been hoping for.

DH and I will start FR sometime next week and hope to do a couple of attempts once we get a pos OPK.

I can't wait to eat well again. I've lost four pounds and hope to be able to keep losing through the attempt and the 2WW.

Fingers crossed for all of you. I hope we see lots of BFPs this month. :)

weeziewoozles
November 10th, 2012, 03:39 PM
I've received my thermometer now so will start temping tomorrow. Any tips? I'm assuming I'm going to have another long cycle so expecting to O next weekend. Last cycle we found FR hard going so may do compressed FR instead. Getting nervous about staying on the LE diet much longer as I've lost 16lbs now in two months and my BMI is about 19 now I think. Really want a BFP this cycle! x

hopingforsaskia
November 10th, 2012, 05:01 PM
Isabel - I can help with diet... I don't know how many cals you're sticking to, but I'm doing 1200-1300 a day and am eating ...... 1 small tub of low fat/full sugar probiotic yoghurt, sliced cucumbers with 2T of hommus, 4-5 large mushrooms fried in a teaspoon of butter and some red licorice or fun-size/mini chocolate bars. Then for dinner I'm having a low sodium wrap with sliced zucchini, mushrooms, low sodium tomato paste and 50g mozzarella cheese in the oven. Then I use up the rest of my cals on lollies or something empty. I literally do the same thing every day, with the only variants being the choice of sweets.

I have to watch fat and protein -- hommus and mozzarella have reasonably high amounts, and the wonder white wraps I have are high in protein! So as long as you have counted everything, you're golden. :) :)

I wouldn't worry about the cal-mag, but if you're really keen you can do it. I'm guessing you're an IG refugee? ;)

My Three Sons
November 11th, 2012, 09:17 PM
So I suspect I will O tomorrow, got a positive OPK today and often O on cd12. We dtd yesterday and once more on cd7 I believe. We were trying more than that but it just isn't going to happen. I guess yesterday is good enough.... I did rephresh the day before and if my temp doesn't rise in the AM mayby we'll try once before work...maybe not. I have been lazy on the sway but I'll stick to no breakfast during my 2ww this time.

meeks32
November 11th, 2012, 09:37 PM
Ladies I hope I can clear a few things up for anyone who is an IG refugee... As I was a few months ago.

TIMING doesn't sway, FREQUENCY sways. So doing it 3-5 days from o, or o+12 won't make a girl, doing it just once in your fertile week (most try one attempt at +opk) is called Abstain, and that sways pink because 7-14 days of no sex for anyone under 35 is safe and lowers sperm quality. Similarity, Frequent Release (FR) is where hubby releases daily (at least) for 7+ days prior to the fertile window, and you bd or use turkey baster method to do your attempts. Do not bd each time at the start of FR or it doesn't work, you have to lower his sperm count first.

Diet here is different. There are no banned foods, you eat 1500-1800 cals a day for slow weight loss (some do 1200 but atomic doesn't think that's safe for fertility). There are salt, protein and fat limits to stick to, which is what the others are talking about, it can be hard sticking to them while eating enough calories. Basically you become vegetarian, stick to the salt, protein and fat, and some of us still steer clear of the really nutritious foods or some of the IG no no foods just to cover our bases.

Link to the diet summary:

http://www.genderdreaming.com/forum/showthread.php?t=16780

Diet meal ideas (may be a dream member thread):

http://www.genderdreaming.com/forum/showthread.php?t=10006

mommazipps
November 12th, 2012, 02:15 AM
Just here to wish all you ladies the best and drop of ALL my pink dust as i have three girls and need no more :running:

Salsa
November 12th, 2012, 04:31 AM
Isabel - I can help with diet... I don't know how many cals you're sticking to, but I'm doing 1200-1300 a day and am eating ...... 1 small tub of low fat/full sugar probiotic yoghurt, sliced cucumbers with 2T of hommus, 4-5 large mushrooms fried in a teaspoon of butter and some red licorice or fun-size/mini chocolate bars. Then for dinner I'm having a low sodium wrap with sliced zucchini, mushrooms, low sodium tomato paste and 50g mozzarella cheese in the oven. Then I use up the rest of my cals on lollies or something empty. I literally do the same thing every day, with the only variants being the choice of sweets.

I have to watch fat and protein -- hommus and mozzarella have reasonably high amounts, and the wonder white wraps I have are high in protein! So as long as you have counted everything, you're golden. :) :)

I wouldn't worry about the cal-mag, but if you're really keen you can do it. I'm guessing you're an IG refugee? ;)

Hi Hoping for Saskia,
I was just reading through this thread, as I am currently in my 2ww TTC in Nov, and we are basically having identical food to eachother! lol too funny! I too, just stick to the same thing everyday, and have plenty of empty cals from lollies (especially because I lost so much weight I was afraid I'd stop O, and infact I O really really late this cycle it wasnt until I upped my cals that I believed I O) so, Im sooooo hoping things worked this month. I dont want to be on the diet too long as Im struggling just to maintain my weight now, Ive lost so much.
Good Luck! And hope Nov is everyones lucky month x x x

Salsa
November 12th, 2012, 04:40 AM
We had planned to just do the one attempt at first +opk, but it all just got a bit messed up this month. I still think my sway was really good. DH FR every day, but started WAY too early as I didnt end up O until cd28!! So he ended up going 3 weeks straight! He's a machine! We also ended up doing several attempts as I got a few +opks, but then the body didnt actually O truley until the wkend. So we did DTD leading up to O and through O. My reasoning is that by then, DH wouldnt have much sperm with every release so it was best to cover our bases and do it every night when I knew I really was O (not the flase + we got at the beginning of the week)
Anyway, I hope I havent put myself into boy friendly territory by doing several attempts. But I am on strict LE diet, supps, rephresh aci jel etc etc so hope that all works in my favour!

good luck everyone!
x x

meeks32
November 12th, 2012, 05:02 AM
We had planned to just do the one attempt at first +opk, but it all just got a bit messed up this month. I still think my sway was really good. DH FR every day, but started WAY too early as I didnt end up O until cd28!! So he ended up going 3 weeks straight! He's a machine! We also ended up doing several attempts as I got a few +opks, but then the body didnt actually O truley until the wkend. So we did DTD leading up to O and through O. My reasoning is that by then, DH wouldnt have much sperm with every release so it was best to cover our bases and do it every night when I knew I really was O (not the flase + we got at the beginning of the week)
Anyway, I hope I havent put myself into boy friendly territory by doing several attempts. But I am on strict LE diet, supps, rephresh aci jel etc etc so hope that all works in my favour!

good luck everyone!
x x

DTD a number of times leading up to and through O is TOTALLY OK if you have had DH releasing daily for at least a week before your first attempt, I think what you did is perfect, although poor DH after 3 weeks, lol!!

Good luck!

Salsa
November 12th, 2012, 06:19 AM
DTD a number of times leading up to and through O is TOTALLY OK if you have had DH releasing daily for at least a week before your first attempt, I think what you did is perfect, although poor DH after 3 weeks, lol!!

Good luck!

haha I know, the poor thing! I told him today that he'd be happy to know we DONT have to DTD tonight! He never thought he'd be so happy to hear that lol:giggle:

Thank you for your reassurance! Just a waiting game now! BUt with 3 kids 4yrs and under the time should go quite quickly I should think!

KraizyDaizy
November 12th, 2012, 09:38 AM
I've received my thermometer now so will start temping tomorrow. Any tips? I'm assuming I'm going to have another long cycle so expecting to O next weekend. Last cycle we found FR hard going so may do compressed FR instead. Getting nervous about staying on the LE diet much longer as I've lost 16lbs now in two months and my BMI is about 19 now I think. Really want a BFP this cycle! x

My only advice is that vaginal temping is more accurate than orally.

squamgirl
November 12th, 2012, 12:18 PM
Salsa- I imagine your poor DH is exhausted by now! Fingers are crossed for you that a pink bean sticks! :)

DH got home from a business trip on Saturday and we started our FR. Hopefully we can go the distance :)

Good luck everyone!

weeziewoozles
November 13th, 2012, 12:42 PM
Thanks Kraizy. I'm on CD17 now and doing my OPKs and temps so lets hope I get a clear positive OPK this time! How do I know when to do CFR as I have no idea when I will O? Do you think if we release once every day until I get a positive OPK that'll be OK? What if we only get three days in in time?

KraizyDaizy
November 13th, 2012, 01:32 PM
I am out ladies, on to the next cycle. Best of luck and blessings to you all...

weeziewoozles
November 13th, 2012, 03:09 PM
Sorry to hear that Kraizy x

Mrs_P
November 13th, 2012, 03:45 PM
Sorry to hear that Kraizy x

Hey Weezie good to hear from you, been wondering how your getting on x

hopingforsaskia
November 13th, 2012, 04:34 PM
Hugs Kraizy xxx

meeks32
November 13th, 2012, 04:43 PM
Kraizy that's sad to hear, I was devastated last month, I hope you are doing better than I was. Big hugs, I'm sure I'll see you in TTC December thread.

KraizyDaizy
November 13th, 2012, 05:33 PM
u all help me so much...you just don't know how much on days like these...

Salsa
November 13th, 2012, 06:56 PM
u all help me so much...you just don't know how much on days like these...

Sorry to hear x x Thinking of you, hope the next month goes quickly for you and you get your BFP next month. I have my fingers crossed x x

Mum23boys
November 14th, 2012, 04:37 AM
Krazy am so sorry.

I got my smiley this morning - not sure when that means ill ovulate or when i class as 1dpo ?
We dtd sunday morning, monday night tuesday night and this morning and now i have my smiley will attempt tonight too and possibly tomorrow too if its worth it ?

meeks32
November 14th, 2012, 06:06 AM
Krazy am so sorry.

I got my smiley this morning - not sure when that means ill ovulate or when i class as 1dpo ?
We dtd sunday morning, monday night tuesday night and this morning and now i have my smiley will attempt tonight too and possibly tomorrow too if its worth it ?

Keep going until tomorrow night, you can o 12-48hrs after +opk, worth keeping it up to be sure (provided you are doing fr).

If you temp (I'm on tapatalk so I can't see signatures) then you will know when you I'd after the fact, because your temps will jump .4 of a degree (Celsius) or more, and stay up. They,at dip prior to o, and they may dip 6-11dpo for implantation then go up and stay up if you are pg.

Good lck, I'm still waiting for the +opk, ad slight ferning on the microscope today so fingers x I get it soon.

weeziewoozles
November 14th, 2012, 07:10 AM
Hey Weezie good to hear from you, been wondering how your getting on x

Me too. Was going to send you a message. How are you feeling? X

weeziewoozles
November 14th, 2012, 04:06 PM
Krazy am so sorry.

I got my smiley this morning - not sure when that means ill ovulate or when i class as 1dpo ?
We dtd sunday morning, monday night tuesday night and this morning and now i have my smiley will attempt tonight too and possibly tomorrow too if its worth it ?

Still no smiley for me so I am assuming it's another long cycle. We decided not to do a whole week of FR this time as it could have gone on for ever! Decided instead to do something like CFR . So yesterday DH released twice and we're going to do the same every day until a positive OPK and then release in the morning and DTD in the evening each day until after O. What do you think?

Mrs_P
November 14th, 2012, 04:07 PM
Me too. Was going to send you a message. How are you feeling? X

I'm alright - trying to combat gd at the moment and feeling pretty down - its really hard not to hope at this stage and i hate not knowing!

Been keeping an eye out for you on the forum, hope your doing ok this month and keeping your chin up, ttc can be so hard when swaying xxxxxxx

Salsa
November 14th, 2012, 08:29 PM
Still no smiley for me so I am assuming it's another long cycle. We decided not to do a whole week of FR this time as it could have gone on for ever! Decided instead to do something like CFR . So yesterday DH released twice and we're going to do the same every day until a positive OPK and then release in the morning and DTD in the evening each day until after O. What do you think?

I think thats a great idea. This cycle I O'ed soooooooo late. On CD28!! SO poor DH ended up FR for 3 weeks straight! lol poor bugger.... Im currently in the 2ww but if im not preg this month we will def not be starting FR so soon. I have my fingers crossed for you!
ps we also DTD b4, and during O so I think thats the way to go with FR

x x

KraizyDaizy
November 16th, 2012, 03:32 PM
Having another go at the HSG Monday, crazy huh!!! They could not get my cervix to cooperate last time, but the radiologist is going to give it another try.

Salsa
November 17th, 2012, 07:17 AM
Good luck!! x x

weeziewoozles
November 17th, 2012, 04:12 PM
So now CD 22 and yet another negative OPK. So my cycle must be even longer than last time! Think we're just going to DTD every evening anyway and hope for the best. My BMI is 18.5 now so really need to get pregnant or give up for a few months. DH feels like a release plus an attempt each day is too much. He feels he has nothing left. What do you think?

Boymomsrock
November 17th, 2012, 05:13 PM
I had a dark opk this morning but to me not quite positive. Just did one this afternoon and it's way negative. Wth? There's no way I should O tomorrow on cd10! I'm so confused.

hopingforsaskia
November 17th, 2012, 05:33 PM
Weezie, that sounds like a great plan! Good luck -- hope you o soon!! :)

Boymoms, I haaaate that confusion.. It messes with your mind something fierce! Are you temping? It helps me so much. :)

I'm officially in the 2ww. My Ovulation Chart (http://www.fertilityfriend.com/home/20019c)
Yay me!

squamgirl
November 17th, 2012, 09:47 PM
Good evening...
I'm on CD 16 and haven't gotten a pos OPK yet. I was hoping today was the day so we could start our attempts. Honestly, FR is wearing us out. Add in the lack of nutrients and I am one exhausted mama!

My fingers are crossed for all of you. Best of luck!

weeziewoozles
November 18th, 2012, 03:11 AM
Good evening...
I'm on CD 16 and haven't gotten a pos OPK yet. I was hoping today was the day so we could start our attempts. Honestly, FR is wearing us out. Add in the lack of nutrients and I am one exhausted mama!

My fingers are crossed for all of you. Best of luck!

I feel the same. I normally eat so well plus take lots of supplements so my body is yearning for some nutrition! It's made me tired and headachy and bruise easily (bruises are from moving house two weeks ago - sorting boxes etc). Can't wait to stuff myself with food and nutrition!

weeziewoozles
November 18th, 2012, 03:15 AM
Weezie, that sounds like a great plan! Good luck -- hope you o soon!! :)

Boymoms, I haaaate that confusion.. It messes with your mind something fierce! Are you temping? It helps me so much. :)

I'm officially in the 2ww. My Ovulation Chart (http://www.fertilityfriend.com/home/20019c)
Yay me!

Fingers crossed! Thanks. I hope we get a smiley face today. So hard to know what to do when you're body isn't following the rules!

My OPKs last month showed a couple of times and then were negative later on too. Very confusing. I am charting my temp this time though to help me know what's going on. :)

squamgirl
November 18th, 2012, 07:46 PM
Weezie- did you get your smiley face? I sure hope so!

squamgirl
November 18th, 2012, 07:49 PM
Good evening... we got our smiley face today! Woohoo! We made an attempt this afternoon. We'll have another attempt tonight and hopefully one or two attempts tomorrow and the same the next day.
I'm also having dental work done tomorrow. Blech! But I've read that it slightly sways, so that' helping me feel better about having it done :)

Weezie- I know what you're saying about being tired and headachy. I fall asleep so easily these days. And I can't concentrate as well as before. I can't wait to get back to balanced eating!

Boymomsrock
November 19th, 2012, 12:43 AM
Usually I get my +opk today, maybe I will o at a more normal time like day 14 instead of 11/12. I'm sure being off vitex this month probably has something to do with it.

weeziewoozles
November 19th, 2012, 03:11 AM
Good evening... we got our smiley face today! Woohoo! We made an attempt this afternoon. We'll have another attempt tonight and hopefully one or two attempts tomorrow and the same the next day.
I'm also having dental work done tomorrow. Blech! But I've read that it slightly sways, so that' helping me feel better about having it done :)

Weezie- I know what you're saying about being tired and headachy. I fall asleep so easily these days. And I can't concentrate as well as before. I can't wait to get back to balanced eating!

Oh good luck! No still no smiley face yesterday but after posting a question and Atomic and other helpful ladies answered me, my plan is to try to maintain my weight now and just DTD every day without any extra releases. That way hopefully we won't miss O but it's frequent enough not to let sperm recover too much.

Yes, cannot WAIT to eat normally again!

KraizyDaizy
November 19th, 2012, 09:40 AM
HSG today! Pray hard for me that this time the tech can actually get it done!

weeziewoozles
November 19th, 2012, 11:00 AM
No smiley again and I'm on CD24! I guess I'm heading for a 40 day cycle at this rate!

GeCon
November 20th, 2012, 07:22 AM
Is everyone in the dream members section these days?

weeziewoozles
November 20th, 2012, 09:48 AM
Is everyone in the dream members section these days?

I'm still here :)

weeziewoozles
November 20th, 2012, 10:48 AM
So I'm now on CD25 and still no smiley. This long cycle is costing lots in OPK sticks! Please let me emulate soon! I can't exactly get my desired gender without it!

GeCon
November 20th, 2012, 11:19 AM
Well, I have been on the diet last year and got on really well with it. Lost lots of weight, but didn't ovulate at the time due to still breastfeeding our little man. Then earlier this year we had to put our TTC plans on hold, but can now finally resume them. The good news is that I have since ovulated. Although my cycle is still not like a clock-work (never has been). We are hoping to attempt in either December or January (depending on what my cycle turns out to be like).

GeCon
November 20th, 2012, 11:28 AM
I forgot to say, I have come off the diet in the meantime, put some weight back on due to over-indulging on some favourites I wasn't able to have for years and now I am back on the diet and finding it quite a bit harder than I did 1st time around. *Sigh*

squamgirl
November 21st, 2012, 09:32 AM
So, Fertility Friend says that I'm 3 DPO. I got a pos OPK on Sunday and we made two attempts that day, a third attempt Monday and a fourth attempt Tuesday. And when I entered my temp into FF this morning, it popped up my O day as Sunday. Thank goodness for the OPK or we wouldn't have started making attempts. Let's hope it's enough.

I've lost another 1.5 lbs since Sunday and I've been super strict on the diet, so hopefully that helps too.

And now I wait....

weeziewoozles
November 21st, 2012, 11:57 AM
So, Fertility Friend says that I'm 3 DPO. I got a pos OPK on Sunday and we made two attempts that day, a third attempt Monday and a fourth attempt Tuesday. And when I entered my temp into FF this morning, it popped up my O day as Sunday. Thank goodness for the OPK or we wouldn't have started making attempts. Let's hope it's enough.

I've lost another 1.5 lbs since Sunday and I've been super strict on the diet, so hopefully that helps too.

And now I wait....

Sounds like you did good! Fingers crossed tightly for you!

Haven't done my OPK yet today but we're DTD every night anyway so it doesn't really matter i guess. I have been pretty good on the diet overall. Moving house two weeks ago was tricky as we had takeaway but i had very few calories other than that so still stayed in the LE limits. In fact i was out with a friend today who was having cake with her coffee so i had a pain au chocolat and will now just be having veg stir fry on rice tonight! I'll do my OPK later and update you all!

weeziewoozles
November 21st, 2012, 05:14 PM
This afternoon's OPK was negative again. So... stupidly long cycle going on here!

hopingforsaskia
November 21st, 2012, 05:30 PM
Me too weezie... :( cd 22 for me. I've had ewcm pouring out of me for a few days now.. You'd think my surge would have come and gone by now surely?! First vitex cycle was 28days, next was 31 -- then added sp and had a 35-er... Looking down the barrel of at least 36 this time. I'm so bummed that they just seem to get longer and longer. I won't be taking sp next month if I don't ovulate and get preggo this cycle... :(

squamgirl
November 22nd, 2012, 12:34 AM
Weezie and Hoping... I'm bummed for you both that O hasn't come. Last Sept/Oct I had a 43 day cycle and didn't O until day 29, so I remember how frustrating it can be. I'm hoping for you both that you can O soon!

GeCon
November 22nd, 2012, 06:38 AM
CD25 of I don't know how many here. 1st month of using the CBFM and my 9th High today. Going from CM I would think I have OV a few days ago.

weeziewoozles
November 22nd, 2012, 03:49 PM
CD25 of I don't know how many here. 1st month of using the CBFM and my 9th High today. Going from CM I would think I have OV a few days ago.

It's so frustrating when your body seems to send mixed signals. CD27 was negative again. I have lots of CM too so expecting to O soon. I feel like giving up doing the tests and just DTD every night. Temp was up a little today so we'll see what tomorrow brings.

The Anchor
November 22nd, 2012, 04:18 PM
I'm over on the TTC boy forum but I wanted to pop in...none of my O signs are lining up. I had ferning (I think), then O pains (I thought) but no EWCM which is rare for me. Then 3 days later, EWCM begins and I'm on day 4 of EWCM. But no ferning, and CP is low. GAWD it's so frustrating, I think I'm having an anovulatory cyle and I am DEPRESSED.

Good luck ladies!

meeks32
November 22nd, 2012, 04:22 PM
I'm over on the TTC boy forum but I wanted to pop in...none of my O signs are lining up. I had ferning (I think), then O pains (I thought) but no EWCM which is rare for me. Then 3 days later, EWCM begins and I'm on day 4 of EWCM. But no ferning, and CP is low. GAWD it's so frustrating, I think I'm having an anovulatory cyle and I am DEPRESSED.

Good luck ladies!

The microscopes are TOTALLY unreliable! Use opk's 3 times a day for the week or so you suspect you may o and monitor your temp, they are really the only reliable methods.

My microscope showed ferning a week prior to when I actually ovulated, then not when I did!! And o pains are confusing to analyse because there are other pains that could happen in the same area and muck you up.

Just keep eating lots of nutritional foods and bd every 2-3 days for TTC boy!

KraizyDaizy
November 23rd, 2012, 01:45 AM
This may be duplicate:

Sorry MIA, I have been so busy, sore and uncomfortable since my HSG Monday, that I just have not had the time to read all the posts. Sorry about that, but I will try to pick up where I left off.

As far as this second attempt HSG, I had one or almost had one in Sept bud the radiologist could not get to my retroverted cervix and gave up. I had one in 2001 after trying for our third son for I believe a year and a half, but it took forever and it was so painful and I said I would never have another. Well, when this second one did not work, I thought I would see if they would try it again, so I went in for it on Monday as prepared as I could be. I was prescribed something to help open my cervix and pain meds. In addition I decided to take a muscle relaxer as well. It took 4 tries, many speculums, in/deflating the balloon for the catheter, and laying propped up on blankets just to get to my hiding cervix. The inflation did not hurt and I did not feel the dye this time! I guess being on all those meds did the trick. The radiologist said that I was all clear now, but there were some blood clots, so not sure if that was the debris or what but its clear now and that is all that matters! The downside to the procedure is laying on that exam table. My back has hurt so bad that I have to take really hot showers and Motrin for pain. I have had some cramping, but not too bad. I probably was really cramping when I came home but the meds covered it up. Well I am cd 10 waiting to O. Do you think I might get pregnant the same month as HSG? I think with the last one it was the third month after it?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

BeadinMom
November 23rd, 2012, 02:29 AM
Hey Kraizy!!

I had my HSG yesterday!! Quite a bit of cramping, but I was very lucky...even though my uterus is tilted, he was able to do the test easily. Right side flowed through easily & while left took a bit more pressure to get the dye through, it did go in & everything looked good.

The doctor doing the test did tell me that you're more fertile following the test & my sister got pregnant twice immediately following HSGs.
Unfortunately for me, I had a small cyst on my ovary, so the doctor put me on BCP to shrink it, so I can't even take advantage of the "extra fertility" :(

Anyway, I am wishing you lots of luck!! This month very well could be your BFP!!! <3
Keep us posted!!!

weeziewoozles
November 23rd, 2012, 06:44 AM
To add to the stress of late ovulation and not knowing what is going on, the boys and DH have all now got stinking colds and coughs. So I am knackered and DH isn't really in the mood either!

weeziewoozles
November 25th, 2012, 04:04 AM
:) Smiley face finally at CD30! My temps had gone up a bit over the last few days so Fertility Monitor thought I might have ovulated already. But with a smiley face today I guess I'm ovulating today or tomorrow. So we'll keep on with DTD every day with antihistamine and LE diet. Not sure about Rephresh this time. Really want to get pg this cycle but want pink!

hopingforsaskia
November 25th, 2012, 03:55 PM
So good weezie!!! Very happy you finally got your positive! :) good luck!!

weeziewoozles
November 27th, 2012, 03:31 AM
My temps are still unclear. What do you guys think? Have I ovulated or going to?

KraizyDaizy
November 28th, 2012, 01:06 PM
1DPO and scared to death...it will work and then that is will not work. I hope my HSG cleared the cobwebs, but still a little bit scared.

meeks32
November 28th, 2012, 09:21 PM
1DPO and scared to death...it will work and then that is will not work. I hope my HSG cleared the cobwebs, but still a little bit scared.

Good luck kraizy, I'm 8dpo and still scared! Thought I saw a positive pg test but now think it was evap line. my temp is lower than I would like despite many symptoms I thought meant I was pg. test won't reliably show for a while, but my period is due in 2 days if I have another 10 day luteal phase. I'm a roller coaster, one minute I'm SURE I'm pg, and super happy, the next I have no hope and super down!

Boymomsrock
November 28th, 2012, 10:22 PM
Good luck kraizy, I'm 8dpo and still scared! Thought I saw a positive pg test but now think it was evap line. my temp is lower than I would like despite many symptoms I thought meant I was pg. test won't reliably show for a while, but my period is due in 2 days if I have another 10 day luteal phase. I'm a roller coaster, one minute I'm SURE I'm pg, and super happy, the next I have no hope and super down!

Meeks this is the first month i've had NO symptoms! Usually my boobs are huge and sore at this point. But nothing! FX for all of us.

hopingforsaskia
November 28th, 2012, 10:26 PM
FWIW Meeks, I only ever get evaps when I am preggo.. There's still hope - don't stress!! What makes you think it was an evap anyway?

meeks32
November 28th, 2012, 11:27 PM
FWIW Meeks, I only ever get evaps when I am preggo.. There's still hope - don't stress!! What makes you think it was an evap anyway?

Just because they are cheap ones and today's wasn't as strong. Also because it didn't have a lot of colour to the line... Hmmm don't know what to think!

I can't buy tests locally as we live in a small town and people will know we are trying (including my workplace) if my husband or I get caught buying them. And a relative works at the shop that sells them! Grrr

I have 3 good brand ones left, wasted one yesterday morning so trying to wait and use tomorrow nd next days as that will be 9dpo+

fish2012
November 29th, 2012, 03:37 PM
OMG i can't stop eating i feel so sick.......the 2ww is so evil
:hugs: to everyone!