Tracking the three primary fertility signs (BBT, cervical position, and CM)

[atomic sagebrush]

Updated 12-27-17

While we no longer think tracking your fertility signs is important for swaying, here is how you do it if you want to. Pink swayers, be aware that this level of constant attention and thought to the inner workings of your body and swaycession may undermine your sway; blue swayers, be aware that feeling like you have to do all these things perfectly and feeling overwhelmed by it all may undermine your sway.

First, a quick overview of how our hormones rise and fall during our menstrual cycle.

Every cycle, your body plans to get pregnant. Getting pregnant is what our reproductive organs are designed to do and every fluctuation in our hormones is a part of this amazing process. The first hormone in this hormone cocktail our bodies brew up every month is FSH, or Follicle Stimulating Hormone. FSH triggers 15-20 eggs to start to mature in each ovary, each in its own separate follicle (The idea that the ovaries alternate producing eggs every other month has been debunked. Both ovaries develop eggs every month and the ovary that actually releases the egg is entirely arbitrary.) These follicles produce estrogen.

These eggs begin to race to see which follicle can grow the biggest. This race averages around 2 weeks but can vary, anywhere between 8 days to a month or even longer (as those with very long cycles can attest to). Ovulation occurs only when those follicles have built up enough estrogen to cross "the estrogen threshold". In addition to triggering ovulation, estrogen also causes the lining of the uterus to build up. We refer to this period of time as the follicular phase, pre-ovulatory phase, or AF-O (Aunt Flo/menstruation-ovulation)

When the levels of estrogen get high enough, LH (Luteinizing Hormone) is released in a sudden "surge". Whatever egg (or two) has won the race and is the biggest and best developed at the point of the LH surge, will now pop out of the ovary (usually within a few hours or a day of the LH surge.) and head down the Fallopian tubes shouting "Come and get me" to any sperm in the neighborhood. All the other eggs will now disintegrate and get reabsorbed by the body - this is called "attresia" for those of us who like to know such things.:wink:

The follicle that released the successful egg now undergoes a major change. It collapses and becomes what is known as the corpus luteum. It prevents the release of any other eggs (obviously it is possible for another egg to emerge from the ovary and that's how twins are conceived, but this is always within a 24-hour period max and usually only within a few hours. It is probably impossible for a woman to release another egg weeks or months later and become pregnant again, despite some well publicized claims to the contrary.) The purpose of the corpus luteum is to produce large amounts of progesterone which sustains the thickening of the uterus until it breaks down 12-14 days later. This period of time is called the "luteal phase", or LP, or also the two-week wait/2WW. Once the corpus luteum breaks down, menstruation begins. (There is an excellent graphic that helps to visualize how the hormones fluctuate through the cycle available here Menstrual cycle (http://schools-wikipedia.org/wp/m/Menstrual_cycle.htm))

Anyway, all this hormonal fluctuation causes a lot of physical symptoms going on with our bodies and we can observe and monitor these symptoms and use it to help us pinpoint ovulation, whether it be for using timing to try and conceive a child of a particular gender, or just so we know when to have intercourse to get pregnant. Tracking these symptoms is even highly reliable as a method of birth control if you are consistent with it.

There are many symptoms that go along with our cycles but three of them are very reliable and fairly consistent between all women. These are referred to as "the Three Primary Fertility Signs" (from Toni Weschler's excellent book, Taking Charge of Your Fertility). They are your waking (basal body) temperature (BBT), your cervical position (CP), and cervical mucus (CM).

We'll take these one at a time and see what they are and how they work, but a couple helpful links to get started - Ovulation Calendar by Fertility Friend - Fertility Tracker, Ovulation Calculator and Fertility/BBT Chart (http://www.fertilityfriend.com/) and Home - Taking Charge of your Fertility (http://www.tcoyf.com/) both have interactive features where you can chart your cycle.

[atomic sagebrush]

Primary Fertility Sign #1 - WAKING (BASAL BODY) TEMPERATURE (BBT)

This is considered the easiest sign to track for many people. After charting for a couple of months, you'll be able to tell if you've ovulated (temping cannot tell you if you're ABOUT to ovulate, only that you have, so for timing intercourse, you will need to use the other fertility signs as well and not just rely on temps), if it's safe to have unprotected sex if you're not trying to get pregnant, when to have intercourse if you're trying to get pregnant, when you'll get your period, and even if you're pregnant, all by taking your temperature once a day.

All you need to do is take your daily temperature first thing when you wake up in the morning and keep track of it either with written charts or online (see above websites for more info).

1. Take your temperature immediately upon waking up before you even get out of bed.

2. Try to take your temperature at the same time every morning. No sleeping in with this method. Temp even when menstruating.

3. Digital thermometers are usually best because you have to take your temp for 5 minutes with a mercury thermometer. DO NOT chart with an ear or forehead thermometer.

4. Most people get a good result from taking their temp. orally, but if you sleep with your mouth open you may not get consistent results this way. Taking your temp vaginally is more reliable. Whatever you choose, consistently temp this way, don't do oral temp one day and vaginal the next, because you cannot compare the two. Obviously if you are menstruating, you will have to skip these days if you temp vaginally. That's ok, you can still look at the overall pattern.

5. If you have a fever, drink alcohol intermittently, sleep with an electric blanket or heating pad or the window open (if you don't normally do so), get woken up a lot in the night, or take your temp at a different time than normal, your temperature will not be reliable that day. If you are a poor sleeper, you can try temping at night - the pattern is less obvious but many can still discern it. Just be sure you temp at the same time every night, not within an hour of eating or drinking anything, and don't mix and match night temps to morning temps as they cannot be correlated to each other.

6. To chart, it's best to record your temp right away so you don't forget.

7. Charting online is so much better and easier that I'm really not even going to talk about charting on paper. Use the Fertility Friend or TCYOF website, it makes it so much more easier and swaying is best when it's uncomplicated.

8. Ok, so you've charted. Now what?? You are looking for the overall pattern of temperatures - that is why it is best to chart for a few months before using this method for pinpointing timing or for birth control. Early in the month when your egg follicles are churning out massive amounts of estrogen, your temps will be on the lower side - for most people it will be in the low 97's but not for everyone. After ovulation, when the corpus luteum forms and starts producing progesterone, your temp will rise (For most people it's a sudden and obvious rise but for others it's more gradual. Still others observe a stairstep pattern with a temp rise, then another temp rise or even two, and eventually ovulation). Once the corpus luteum breaks down, your temp will drop again suddenly and your period will start usually within 48 hours. If your temp stays up for 17 days or longer after ovulation, congrats! You're pregnant.

9. If you find that your temperature after ovulation only stays high for 11 days or less (esp. if you get your period less than 12 days after you ovulate) you may have a luteal phase defect that is preventing you from becoming pregnant. You need your uterine lining in good shape for at least 12 days after you ovulate so a fertilized egg can implant in your uterus. If your temps drop sooner than that and you think you may be having chemical pregnancies, let me know because there are ways to deal with that.

Please note that about 7 days past ovulation many women will experience a big dip in temperatures and then your temps will rise again the next day. Some call this an "implantation dip" but this is a misnomer. What is actually happening is that your body releases a big burst of estrogen (remember, estrogen makes lower temperatures) and this estrogen helps maintain your uterine lining long enough for a baby to implant and send a signal to your body to maintain the corpus luteum and start making a lot of progesterone to sustain a pregnancy. This is called the secondary estrogen surge and it is totally normal!

10. Temperature charting really is not terribly helpful for timing for gender selection (although it is extremely helpful to be able to look back and see patterns from previous months, they are not necessarily predictive of what will happen in FUTURE months). However, some women find they have a temp dip on the day of ovulation, so if you were trying for a boy OR for an O+12, that could be helpful to you.

Be aware, on Gender Dreaming we do not recommend Shettles timing for boys OR O+12 but if you want to use them, it's your sway, your way, and people do use this temp dip to help get their timing right. Remember, for traditional Shettles boy timing you want to DTD as close to O as you can, and for a girl, it should be either 2-4 days prior to ovulation for Shettles girl timing OR 12 hours after for O+12. Or, come join us in the swaying forums where we will help you learn about newer, better ways to sway for the gender of baby you're dreaming of.

11. Some swayers believe that if you are higher in estrogen overall, your temps will be lower than they usually are THROUGHOUT your cycle and lower temps may be a good indication that your estrogen levels are high and you may be in a good place to conceive a boy. Conversely, if your temps are higher than they usually are throughout your cycle, this may indicate that your progesterone levels are elevated and you are in a good place to conceive a girl. OR, it may mean that you're lower in estrogen, since estrogen makes lower temperatures. This has not been proven, but it is interesting to be aware of this. If you've been charting for 6 months and suddenly notice ALL your temps are a few decimal points higher than they were, this may very well mean your pink sway is working and your hormones are changing. If you're charting for blue and your temps are lower, particularly in the follicular phase, your hormones may be changing in a boy-friendly way.

[atomic sagebrush]

PRIMARY FERTILITY SIGN #2 - CERVICAL MUCUS

This is a little more difficult for people to pick up than temping is, but it's actually much more useful in terms of swaying. You should still chart temps though, if only because it will help you get the knack of the ways your cervical mucus will change throughout your cycle.

Using your cervical mucus (CM) you will be able to tell when you're infertile, when you are highly fertile, help you with timing methods, and it can also help you know if you're pregnant or not. CM has two separate functions. Prior to ovulation, it's very thick, acidic, and is designed to keep sperm and other invaders out of the uterus. Around ovulation, it becomes very thin and more alkaline and welcoming to sperm - this is called egg white cervical mucus or EWCM. Shortly after ovulation (within 1-3 days) it becomes thick, acidic, and protective again.

Please be aware that the claims that mucus changes within a set number of hours post-ovulation that is the same for every woman in every month are completely bogus. Your mucus changes based on the amount of time it takes for estrogen levels to drop and this can vary between individuals and even in the same individual by the month. You absolutely CAN have EWCM that lasts even as long as 2-3 days after ovulation. If you are in this grop, if you wait to have sex till your cervical mucus is dried up, you would never get pregnant that way!!

1. Start checking your CM the first day after your period. Develop an awareness of how your vagina feels throughout the day (you don't even need to touch it, just be aware of how it feels.) When you use the bathroom (at least three times a day) with clean hands, touch the outer lips of your vagina and get used to the feeling of the discharge. Take note when you wipe after going to the bathroom as to whether you are dry or if there is mucus present. Pay attention to your underwear as well - very fertile CM will tend to take a round shape while less fertile CM will be more in a rectangular or line pattern.

To check CM, separate the lips of your vagina and check your CM at the lowest part of the opening close to the perineum. You can use tissue if that works for you, or you can rub it between your fingers. You may even want to see if it stretches just for fun.

2. Most charts have a location for making notes about your CM along with your temperature. Definitely use these! You will begin to see how temps and CM patterns are working together to show you where you are in your cycle and what your hormones are doing.

3. The follicular cycle in most women goes something like this - for a few days after menstruation, there is little to no mucus present (record "dry" on your chart.) Your panties and accompanying vaginal sensations will be dry.

Then, CM begins to develop in a "sticky" form (record "sticky" on your chart). Other words you may use to describe this sensation include "pasty, tacky, crumbly, gummy, springy" - it's kind of like rubber cement. May be white or yellowish in color. You may continue to feel dry or you may feel sticky.

Next, CM becomes "creamy". Other words used to describe this type of CM are "lotiony, milky, smooth." White or yellow in color. This is the kind of CM that is associated with greater odds of conceiving a baby girl. Your vaginal sensation will be wet, moist, gooey, even cold. You may be fertile while this CM is present so if you do not want to become pregnant, take precautions. You may notice a rectangular or line pattern on your underwear. (This is what you're looking for for a cutoff.)

The final and most fertile form of CM is EWCM (egg white cervical mucus). Very wet, slippery, and it may stretch between your fingers. There is usually a lot of it! You will feel a very wet vaginal sensation and you will notice a round pattern on your underwear. It is usually clear in color but it can be pink or red streaked if you have ovulatory spotting, after intercourse, or if you've been too aggressive with checking your cervix. You are VERY fertile when this CM is present so if you aren't trying to conceive, take precautions. (This is what you want for conceiving a boy). Please be aware that some of us go straight to EWCM and can have it even immediately after our periods have ended.

3. After your estrogen level has peaked and the egg has been released and the corpus luteum has begun to make progesterone (you are entering your luteal phase) your CM will change abruptly. Sometimes even within just a couple of hours you will see a difference;
other times it takes even as long as 2-3 days. Again, this is where charting is very handy because you can take note of how and when it changes in terms of what your temps are doing. You may have a few hours of creamy CM after ovulation (this is when you want to DTD if you are trying for an O+12) but for many people, it just dries up without ever going to creamy and you'll need to use cervical position to help you pinpoint O+12. 48 hours after ovulation (your temperature will drop), you are safe to have unprotected sex.

You will probably stay dry (and you are safe to DTD unprotected) for the rest of your cycle but some women do notice a watery sensation (not mucus-like) right before their period starts. You're not fertile and you are safe to DTD at this time.

Please be aware that the claims that mucus changes within a set number of hours post-ovulation that is the same for every woman in every month are completely bogus. Your mucus changes based on the amount of time it takes for estrogen levels to drop and this can vary between individuals and even in the same individual by the month. You absolutely CAN have EWCM that lasts even as long as 2-3 days after ovulation. If you are in this grop, if you wait to have sex till your cervical mucus is dried up, you would never get pregnant that way!!

4. Semen, being sexually aroused, taking guaifenesin, antibiotics and other herbal CM inhancers can make you produce more EWCM and earlier in your cycle. Having a vaginal infection, using Replens/RepHresh/Acijel or spermicide can make you think you are producing EWCM when you aren't. Taking antihistamines, Sudafed, cranberry, ibuprofin, and some other medicines and herbs can make your CM very dry. All these situations can make it very difficult to tract where you are in your cycle.

To get rid of semen, you can try using the Semen Emitting Technique http://genderdreaming.com/forum/ttc-a-girl-best-practices/1137-jump-dump-semen-emitting-technique-post10773.html?1137-Jump-and-Dump-and-the-Semen-Emitting-Technique=#post10773 or learn to tell the difference - semen appears whitish and rubbery. It doesn't stretch like EWCM does and it dries on your fingers much more quickly. Or you can use the water test - gather a bit of the stuff on your fingers and dip it into a cup of water. Semen will dissolve or float, and EWCM will either stick to your fingers or form a ball and drop to the bottom of the glass.

If you can't tell what you're dealing with, here's a nice little essay about it https://www.kindara.com/blog/what-is-that-fluid-distinguishing-vaginal-moisture-arousal-fluid-and-semen

5. If you have a very hard time collecting enough CM to learn the various types, you can try inserting a Diva or Instead cup for an hour. Some CM will collect in the cup. (this is also a handy hint to check pH of CM if you are not getting much.

[atomic sagebrush]

PRIMARY FERTILITY SIGN #3 - CERVICAL POSITION

This is the hardest of the three to figure out but luckily it's the least important. However, if you're going for an O+12, you will NEED to know how to do this so even if you're not sure whether O+12 is right for you, you may want to give it a try (or you can do the Gender Dreaming technique for O+12 and simply have unprotected intercourse 48 hours after your first positive OPK or peak reading on a fertility monitor). Please be aware if you are actively swaying and taking things that either dry up or produce a lot of CM, it can be hard to use cervical mucus to help pinpoint O and so you may need to rely more on cervical position.

Normally, the cervix is firm and closed and low, like the tip of your nose. As ovulation nears, the cervix rises, softens, and opens up to allow sperm to pass in and CM to pass out to give the sperm a medium they can survive in. The cervix itself also produces CM to some extent so you can also judge by the moistness of the cervix - it will be dry before and after ovulation, but wet around ovulation.

A handy acronym to remember this by is SHOW - around ovulation, your cervix will SHOW - it will become soft, high, open, and wet. To have a sense of what exactly you're feeling for, see http://www.beautifulcervix.com/cervix-photo-galleries/photos-of-cervix/ and Cervix Changes During the Menstrual Cycle - The Garden of Fertility (http://www.gardenoffertility.com/cervix.shtml)

1. Start checking your cervix the day after menstruation. Check once a day. (in later months once you are accustomed to checking your cervix, you can check less often and only around ovulation, but at first you need to know what your non-fertile cervix feels like so check every day.)

2. Wash your hands WELL. You also may want to check your cervix immediately after a shower, so your vaginal area is clean and microorganisms from your vulvar area will not be moved inside your vagina.

3. Check at the same time of day. If possible, try not to check immediately before or immediately after having a BM because this can affect your cervix position and texture especially if you've had children vaginally, but it's not critical.

4. To feel your cervix, you can squat, sit on the toilet, or stand with one foot on the bathtub or counter. Whatever is most convenient for you. At first, you should check in the same position each time because position can affect the height of the cervix somewhat. Once you get a good feel for how to do this, you may want to try different positions to see if some are better than others. YMMV.

5. Use whichever finger is easiest for you but be consistent (esp. at first).

6. Don't be squeamish about asking DH for help with this. You may find that he already has a pretty good handle on the situation! My husband told me once that he could tell where I was in my cycle when we DTD.

7. If you've had a child vaginally, your cervix will be less round and more oval in shape, and the small hole in the middle will be slightly larger and more of a line shape rather than a dot.

8. Around ovulation, you may want to check more than once a day (especially if you're planning an O+12) but be careful not to irritate your cervix and cleanliness is VERY important, particularly around ovulation. Please note - you can often trigger slight bleeding around ovulation from checking your CP. Don't panic if you see some red discharge, it's nearly always from the cervix.

9. If you are on hormonal birth control, these will interfere with your cervix position. Don't bother checking your cervix if you are on BCP or other hormonal birth control products (like Mirena). If you're planning on TTC the first month off the Pill, it doesn't hurt and may help you to check that first month, but just know that it may be very hard for you to understand what you're looking for without having experience in advance.

10. Crossreferencing your cervical position with temps and CM can help you learn where you are in your cycle and help you to understand how your cervix changes throughout your cycle. There will be a spot to record data about your cervix (whether it is open or closed, soft or firm, low/medium/high) on your chart.

[atomic sagebrush]

SECONDARY FERTILITY SIGNS

After you chart for awhile, you may begin to notice other signs and symptoms that appear at various parts of your cycle. While these are interesting and can def. help you pinpoint O, they vary between individuals and even by month so they are not reliable overall.

You may want to ask your husband about this as sometimes they are better at knowing where we are in our cycles than we are ourselves.

Ovulatory spotting (please read - http://genderdreaming.com/forum/gender-swaying-general-discussion/1678-ovulation-pain-spotting-depth-post11209.html?1678-ovulation-pain-and-spotting-in-depth=#post11209)

Pain near the ovaries at ovulation (please read http://genderdreaming.com/forum/gender-swaying-general-discussion/1678-ovulation-pain-spotting-depth-post11209.html?1678-ovulation-pain-and-spotting-in-depth=#post11209)

Crampiness after ovulation and right before menstruation - this is usually but not always different than the kind that comes before ovulation.

Feeling more sexual around ovulation - for many people, this is the biggest sign. Unfortunately it cannot pin down ovulation to the day - so even if you're feeling unsexy LOL still use protection if you are close to your fertile window and aren't ready to conceive.

Swollen vulva/vaginal lips and feeling "full" down there around ovulation

Abdominal bloating at different parts of your cycle

Retaining water/increased thirst/increased urination

Overly sensitive smell and taste, bordering on morning sickness

Hot flashes (this is more common in those over 35)

Tender breasts

Moodiness - Some women find that their moodiness almost acts as a spiritual guide. Prior to ovulation, you may find that you are very positive and upbeat even in the face of overwhelming obstacles. Around ovulation, you may find that you are more creative and open to new ideas and new people (some waitresses have even noticed they get higher tips at ovulation!!).

Many have reported a burst of intense anxiety just after ovulation and/or just prior to the arrival of their periods.

And of course as we all know, after ovulation, we do tend to become more emotional and upset - although this isn't necessarily a bad thing. Many women find that they are better able to realize and work to change the things in their lives that aren't working for them.

Menstruation can have an almost cleansing effect on both body and psyche - many cultures encourage women to rest during menstruation and some women have reported feeling very "nesty" during that time - they want to clean and organize everything.

[TTC5]

Ughh I tried to find my cervix today .. Have never done this before but I had no luck?? tmi but i have short fingers lol could this make it harder :s

[atomic sagebrush]

Keep trying once a day and soon you'll be able to find it. It really moves around!!

[TTC5]

Oh ok!! I couldn't figure it out I mean there is only one way up *there* lol did not think it would be this hard lol

[atomic sagebrush]

I know! Some parts of your cycle, it is VERY hard to reach.

[luvmyluvbug]

Thanks for the info i have been trying to figure out CP and still tricky but easier with this post.

[SugarSpice&EverythingNice]

This is VERY VERY helpful :)

[begonia]

TTC5 it took me a month or so to figure out where mine was, LOL! Looking at the links Atomic posted with the pics will really help. Since I got pg so easily I never bothered to learn anything about my cycle; that is one thing about swaying that I really love ... I have learned so much about my own body :-)

[jane]

just a question on the cm... about day12/13 i have LONG stretchy mucus which when i go to the loo hangs almost to the water!(sorry,too much info) then it goes slightly more watery but still in abundance,does that sound normal,i really think i ovulate on day 15 so is the stretchy stuff just an indicator,im confused!?:think:

[atomic sagebrush]

just a question on the cm... about day12/13 i have LONG stretchy mucus which when i go to the loo hangs almost to the water!(sorry,too much info) then it goes slightly more watery but still in abundance,does that sound normal,i really think i ovulate on day 15 so is the stretchy stuff just an indicator,im confused!?:think:

Yes, that's great if you're TTC a boy, you'll need to dry it up if you are TTC a girl.

You get EWCM for SEVERAL days around O, not just on O day. That is perfectly normal and in fact that's how sperm stay alive for several days, they hang out in the cervical crypts in a nice bath of EWCM.

[jane]

Yes, that's great if you're TTC a boy, you'll need to dry it up if you are TTC a girl.

You get EWCM for SEVERAL days around O, not just on O day. That is perfectly normal and in fact that's how sperm stay alive for several days, they hang out in the cervical crypts in a nice bath of EWCM.thanks! so just to get myself clear on it, is it when cm is really stretchy or just after thats good for boy? really want to get this right:nails:

[atomic sagebrush]

Are you swaying blue or pink?? I"m sorry I can't keep track of everyone in my mind.

ANY watery or stretchy CM is good for blue. Both are forms of fertile CM and fertile CM is what you want for TTC a boy.

For anyone TTC a girl, they should try drying that CM up somewhat through diet and antihistamines.

[jane]

thanx atomic:bigsmile:

[fresas]

SO helpful.

One of my questions in my intro thread was about CM and temping. I think temping is not going to be an option for me. I wake up a lot, I sleep weird hours, I sleep in a cold room, and I sometimes sleep with my mouth open.

The thing about the CM is that I think I have way, way too much EWCM from about day 8-18 of a 28 day cycle. Around day 19 is when it starts to dry up and get thick before finally disappearing. Because I have so much EWCM, it is hard for me to spot the exact day and time of ovulation because the very clear and stretchy stuff is hard to notice. I wonder if I'm having anovulatory cycles...

[rainbowflower]

you could try it and temp vaginally instead of orally. It's much more accurate to temp that way. You might find that disturbed sleep doesn't really affect your temps either - I have VERY disturbed sleep lately with a LO who wakes random times. There have been a few nights even in the last week where I haven't got more than a 2hr block of sleep, yet my temps are still quite consistent. If you can still take the temp at the same time each day and try to not move around much when you stir, that will help.

If you have regular cycles it's very unlikely that they're anovulatory. Perhaps you're just "lucky" to get lots of fertile CM? Temping is the only way to prove (at home) that you've OVed before AF/BFP shows. Normally you'll OV on the last day of fertile CM, so you probably OV on CD18.

[fresas]

Wow, thanks again for the ideas.

For temping vaginally, use a digital oral thermometer and don't let anyone else use it ever? ;) I've never considered doing it that way, but like you said, maybe that's the best way.

There are days around suspected ovulation that I usually literally soak through panties because of all the mucous. I'm sorry, that is probably TMI. I never had this before until the last year or so.

[rainbowflower]

lol do you have a special BBT thermometer? they go to 2 decimal places and you need one that is that accurate for charting because some of the changes can be less than 0.1C. You can buy them for around £5 or less on Amazon! I keep my notebook (for writing my temp down instantly so I can go back to sleep) and my thermometer on my bedside table so that it's to hand in the morning.

that sounds like a lot of CM then!
are you swaying pink?

[fresas]

Oh, a BBT thermometer. Yes, those make a difference! I will buy one and start temping for sure. I had completely forgotten about those.

Yes, I'm swaying pink. Wish I could be HT, but it's not an option for me right now so anything I can do to encourage my body to accept XX is what I will do. :)

[atomic sagebrush]

SO helpful.

One of my questions in my intro thread was about CM and temping. I think temping is not going to be an option for me. I wake up a lot, I sleep weird hours, I sleep in a cold room, and I sometimes sleep with my mouth open.

The thing about the CM is that I think I have way, way too much EWCM from about day 8-18 of a 28 day cycle. Around day 19 is when it starts to dry up and get thick before finally disappearing. Because I have so much EWCM, it is hard for me to spot the exact day and time of ovulation because the very clear and stretchy stuff is hard to notice. I wonder if I'm having anovulatory cycles...

First of all, once you start really monitoring it, you may start to see subtle differences in the consistency that you can track and begin to see a pattern developing that you can use to pinpoint O.

You may find that on the girl diet, that EWCM will begin to "behave itself" and diminish in quantity. If not, don't despair, a lot of people have conceived baby girls even with a lot of CM. Plus, there are the antihistamines to consider as well.

Finally, do keep in mind that timing is only one aspect of swaying at best and it's really been debunked repeatedly. I know it's hard to leave it behind but just know that it's not make or break in ANY way.

[atomic sagebrush]

you could try it and temp vaginally instead of orally. It's much more accurate to temp that way. You might find that disturbed sleep doesn't really affect your temps either - I have VERY disturbed sleep lately with a LO who wakes random times. There have been a few nights even in the last week where I haven't got more than a 2hr block of sleep, yet my temps are still quite consistent. If you can still take the temp at the same time each day and try to not move around much when you stir, that will help.

If you have regular cycles it's very unlikely that they're anovulatory. Perhaps you're just "lucky" to get lots of fertile CM? Temping is the only way to prove (at home) that you've OVed before AF/BFP shows. Normally you'll OV on the last day of fertile CM, so you probably OV on CD18.

I agree with Rainbow (as usual ;)) It is VERY unlikely that with such regular, predictable patterns of CM and regular periods, tht you are having anovulatory cycles. It's much more likely that you are just very fertile right now (which is GOOD, right??)

Also, the "disrupted sleep" thing is mentioned a lot and it turns out that most people can temp just fine even when their sleep is disrupted. All you can do is give it a go and see how it works, it may be that you can temp very easily with no trouble at all.

[fresas]

Thanks ladies!

Sorry, it is hard for me to follow up with stuff quickly during my work week because of the weird hours and other busy stuff.

Is there a reason that an ear thermometer may not be as accurate as a BBT thermometer?

I was reading in "Taking Charge of Your Fertility" that sometimes temping with a BBT vaginally will show a higher temperature than orally (assuming you sleep with your mouth closed). But is also recommended staying away from ear thermometers.

I have found the ear thermometers are pretty accurate with helping diagnose a fever more than a regular, digital oral thermometer (I know, different than a BBT). Hmm. If anyone cares to enlighten me, I would love it! :)

[rainbowflower]

ear themometers will take an accurate temperature but usually they only have 1 decimal place. Often when you see the thermal shift this can be more subtle than 1 decimal place so you need 2 decimal places, which is what BBT thermometers have

[fresas]

Rainbowflower, thank you! :)

[squamgirl]

11. Some swayers believe that if you are higher in estrogen overall, your temps will be lower than they usually are THROUGHOUT your cycle and lower temps may be a good indication that your estrogen levels are high and you may be in a good place to conceive a boy. Conversely, if your temps are higher than they usually are throughout your cycle, this may indicate that your progesterone levels are elevated and you are in a good place to conceive a girl. This has not been proven, but it is interesting to be aware of this. If you've been charting for 6 months and suddenly notice ALL your temps are a few decimal points higher than they were, this may very well mean your sway is working and your hormones are changing.


After reading this, I check my charts and found that this exact scenario is happening. My starting temp for the current cycle was 96.9, while the previous three cycles were 97.2 (Aug), 97.4 (July) and 97.5 (June). The temps remain, for the most part, lower than previous cycles.
I had my IUD (copper, non-hormonal) removed on Aug 23rd. Could this be affecting the temps?
Today's (CD11) temp was right in the same neighborhood as the temp in the previous three cycles.
Do I need to do something to bring my estrogen down?
Or am I stressing unnecessarily?
Is there a way to share my chart to get input?

Thank you!!!

ETA: On CD 25 (of a 32 day cycle) of my last cycle, I got a stomach bug that lasted over a week and lost four pounds. I gained some of it back once I felt better. Since learning that weight loss can sway pink, I've been losing more weight and in total have lost seven pounds (since before the bug). Could the weight loss affect the temps too?

[atomic sagebrush]

That whole thing with the temps - it's one of those things that's interesting but it's just speculation and barely formed theory. If you lose a little weight, you WILL lower your estrogen level because body fat makes estrogen, but you're right that might not be reflected in your temps because you'll have less fat as insulation. There tons of reasons why your temps might be different than another month's temps, even right down to things like different seasons.

[squamgirl]

Thank you Atomic! You have made wading through the sea of information much easier!

[fresas]

I had to stop temping for now. I think I may need to rely on CM, rhythm, and cervical position as much as I don't like touching my cervix. My schedule is simply too wacky for temping at this point.

I tried all last month, even after the big "oops!" up until I got my period and my BBT is all over the place. I wake up too much, I sleep at weird times, etc. Hmmm.

[atomic sagebrush]

Thank you Atomic! You have made wading through the sea of information much easier!

You're very welcome!! Happy to help.

[atomic sagebrush]

I had to stop temping for now. I think I may need to rely on CM, rhythm, and cervical position as much as I don't like touching my cervix. My schedule is simply too wacky for temping at this point.

I tried all last month, even after the big "oops!" up until I got my period and my BBT is all over the place. I wake up too much, I sleep at weird times, etc. Hmmm.

fresas, I know you may not want to do this, but I do want to mention there are always OPK to rely on. You can always DTD with one attempt the first day of a pos OPK for a tiny little cutoff.

[fresas]

I was thinking about that, too. Thanks for recommending it! :)

I have been going back and forth about OPKs, not because I think they are inaccurate, but because I think it may help considering I have PCOS and last month's cycle was not as predictable and the past. I feel I'm in a testosterone upswing too because I can tell I'm gaining weight and my facial hair is really wanting to battle some men's facial even though I'm strictly low carb at the moment. I am avoiding Vitex this cycle, too.

If I can cut my hours back at work, I may be able to temp again. But you're right, I think for now, it may be best to do the combination of CM, position, and OPKs.

[atomic sagebrush]

Good luck!!

[carmella_marie]

My temps are always all over the place during my period, then even out, I have an O dip around CD 20 and then a slow rise. What does that say about my hormones? Is a slow rise indicative of low progesterone?

[atomic sagebrush]

Not necessarily. That is just one of many normal temp. patterns. The only thing that can indicate low prog is a short luteal phase. How many days is it between when you O and when AF begins?? If you have a 13-14 day LP, your prog is fine.

[atomic sagebrush]

bumping updated thread

[Mrs.Day]

What if you don't have any noticeable signs of ovulation, except for an increase in sex drive? I don't get the egg white mucous. What can I do to increase this?

[atomic sagebrush]

Are you trying for a boy or a girl??