Super Soy for a girl or a boy!

[atomic sagebrush]

HOW TO USE SOY ISOFLAVONES AS CLOMID

Soy isoflavones are SERMs, or Selective Estrogen Receptor Modulators - they bind weakly with estrogen receptors and compete with the body's natural supply of estrogen to do so. Clomid is also a SERM. Some people believe that soy isoflavones function in the same way to block estrogen receptors as Clomid.

HOW DOES SOY/CLOMID WORK ANYWAY? (please read http://genderdreaming.com/forum/showthread.php?1191-Clomid&highlight=clomid for more about this)

SERMs like soy and Clomid bind to the estrogen receptor cells in your hypothalamus and block them. If your estrogen receptor cells are blocked, your brain doesn’t get the signal from the estrogen. Your estrogen levels aren't really low, your body just "believes" that they are and reacts accordingly.

Estrogen is released from the maturing egg follicles in the ovaries during the first part of your cycle. If your follicles are not mature, your body does not "want" to ovulate and risk popping out an immature egg. So this lack of estrogen triggers a rise in GNRH that in turn stimulates FSH (follicle-stimulating-hormone, the hormone that makes eggs develop and mature). This increase in FSH will hopefully induce or improve ovulation.

NOTE - if you are not ovulating due to high FSH levels (age or premature ovarian failure), soy is not going to help you and in fact may make matters worse. You will most likely need to see a doctor and progress to stronger infertility drugs. However, soy is cheap so you may want to give it a try if you have not been diagnosed with high FSH levels.

HOW DO WE TAKE SOY ISOFLAVONES FOR BEST RESULTS??

Since you need a certain level of estrogen to trigger your LH surge (luteinizing hormone, which signals the egg that it is time to burst out of its follicle), timing is everything when taking soy. You want to take it for long enough and early enough in your cycle to up the FSH and make eggs develop, but not for too long to overly inhibit the estrogen (bad for your uterine lining and it will screw up your LH surge).

SERMs like Clomid and soy iso are most effective when taken for about five days towards the start of the cycle - the first day of your period is CD (cycle day) 1. Best results are seen when 100-200 mg (taken ALL at once) are taken on CD 1-5 , 2-6, 3-7 , 4-8 or 5-9. Most people choose to take it on days 3-7. Taking soy on days 1-5 may yield more eggs and an earlier ovulation, however you run the risk that some or even all of these eggs may not be optimally mature. Days 2-6 may yield more eggs than usual, but not as many as taking it 1-5. Eggs may be more mature. (If you're trying for twins you will want to take the soy beginning either CD 1 or CD 2, but you are gambling that some of those eggs will be mature). CD 3-7 is considered the best of both worlds, a few more eggs produced, and with luck, all eggs will be strong & mature. CD 4-8, you will probably produce only one or two eggs of good maturity. CD 5-9 will probably yield one very strong, high quality egg, from those that you already produced on your own. Ovulation will possibly be delayed a few days. You may have problems with your uterine lining being too thin to maintain a pregnancy, so if you have a chemical pregnancy you will want to take the soy earlier in your cycle.

Take it these days only regardless of when you usually ovulate, even if you have very long cycles take it ONLY on those days. DO NOT take soy iso throughout your cycle. More is not better and in fact it will inhibit ovulation. You may notice that is a higher mg dosage than Clomid typically comes in, but you can't compare the two. It is commonly said that 100mg of soy is roughly equal to 50 mg of Clomid.

Soy CAN move your ovulation and this may be a good thing for getting pregnant and/or swaying for a particular gender, so don't despair if your ovulation is irregular. You will want to be either temp charting or taking OPK's regularly to help you pinpoint O. http://genderdreaming.com/forum/showthread.php?1723-getting-started-with-OPKs&highlight=opks
http://genderdreaming.com/forum/showthread.php?1642-Tracking-the-three-primary-fertility-signs-(BBT-cervical-position-and-CM)&highlight=primary+fertility+signs

IF you are swaying for pink, you may find that soy isoflavones give you more EWCM than normal. It is critically important to your sway that you take an antihistamine to reduce your CM http://genderdreaming.com/forum/showthread.php?518-USING-ANTIHISTAMINES-TO-HELP-TTC-A-GIRL&highlight=antihistamine

IF you are swaying for boy, you may find that soy helps you produce EWCM, but if it doesn't or if it makes you drier than normal, consider taking Robitussin or Mucinex to improve your CM. http://genderdreaming.com/forum/showthread.php?1112-USING-ROBITUSSIN-TO-TTC-A-BOY&highlight=robitussin

Some people may choose to take baby aspirin to improve their uterine lining and make it more likely that an egg will implant.

SHOULD DH TAKE SOY ISOFLAVONES? For a girl, having DH eat or take low levels of soy isoflavones (aim for 20 - 60 mg a day, diet and supps combined) is a good idea and may help lower his testosterone and sperm count.

For a boy, DH should NOT take or eat soy.

WHAT SHOULD I AVOID WHILE TAKING SOY?? Don't take soy while pregnant or breastfeeding (some exceptions apply to the breastfeeding so if you are wanting to use soy and are BF, let me know and I can help you do it safely), if you have ever had breast cancer or have a family history of breast cancer, if you have thyroid problems, and if you are eating a very low iodine (low sodium) diet, you should try to get pregnant as quickly as possible to limit the amount of time you are taking the soy.

You should not mix soy with Clomid (or any fertility drug), vitex, evening primrose oil, large amounts of peppermint tea, saw palmetto, licorice, red clover, dong quai, flaxseed, cohosh, Agave root, black currant, black haw, cramp bark, devil's club root, false unicorn root, ginseng root, groundsel herb, liferoot herb, motherwort herb, peony root, raspberry leaves, rose family plants (most parts), sage leaves, sarsaparilla root, wild yam root, yarrow blossoms.

[Emery]

Atomic..... so since I am on soy (can't o on my own) and ttc a girl, should i continue to take calcium (1000 mg) and magnesium (500 mg) supplements daily if the soy will just "cancel" it?

[atomic sagebrush]

OH I'm so sorry I just saw this!

Yes, you can continue to take those supplements. In fact you should just for purposes of your own health, because the soy will def. cause some of them to be excreted from your body.

[Alexis2007]

What will happen if you take soy and EPO together?

[atomic sagebrush]

They may be less effective. Nothing dire.

[Alexis2007]

So what can I take to get pregnant with twin boys (lol)? :D I would LOVE twin boys!!!

[gizmo77]

So what can I take to get pregnant with twin boys (lol)? :D I would LOVE twin boys!!!

me too!

[atomic sagebrush]

Check out this essay and thread if you're interested in swaying for twins. http://genderdreaming.com/forum/showthread.php?1089-Conceiving-twins!

[Flava]

I took a lot of soy isoflavones when I was ttc DD4 . Just want to say no way I take soy again.

[atomic sagebrush]

I took a lot of soy isoflavones when I was ttc DD4 . Just want to say no way I take soy again.

Thank you for sharing your experiences, very helpful!!

[mis2ninos]

Ugh i feel like the information is so conflicting. So what do you recommend for pink sway? Initially i was planning on eating more soy because it lowers testosterone but now seeing how it can sway blue makes me so nervous. Should i just leave it out??

[atomic sagebrush]

Soy is still protein and protein can def. sway blue. As long as you're at 40-50 g of protein a day and no more then I think soy from time to time is fine for a pink sway, but soy has SO MUCH protein in it that you're not going to be able to eat much else that day!!

I think saw palmetto to lower testosterone, in addition to losing weight on a low protein, low cal, low fat diet are the best ways to lower T.

[Out of the Blue]

Think I'm asking this in the right thread...I'm a pink swayer on Vitex and was wondering if it's okay to eat tofu or other soy products sometimes (not the soy supps). I don't think I saw this question addressed but I apologize if it was. Thx!

[mis2ninos]

Soy is still protein and protein can def. sway blue. As long as you're at 40-50 g of protein a day and no more then I think soy from time to time is fine for a pink sway, but soy has SO MUCH protein in it that you're not going to be able to eat much else that day!!

I think saw palmetto to lower testosterone, in addition to losing weight on a low protein, low cal, low fat diet are the best ways to lower T.

Ok thank you so much this is what i needed to hear! Xx

[atomic sagebrush]

Think I'm asking this in the right thread...I'm a pink swayer on Vitex and was wondering if it's okay to eat tofu or other soy products sometimes (not the soy supps). I don't think I saw this question addressed but I apologize if it was. Thx!

Yes, you can still eat tofu/soy sauce/miso occasionally. The amount of isoflavones in the soy iso pills is much more highly concentrated than anything you can get via diet.

[XXdreaming]

SHOULD DH TAKE SOY ISOFLAVONES? For a girl, having DH eat or take low levels of soy isoflavones (aim for 20 - 60 mg a day, diet and supps combined) is a good idea and may help lower his testosterone and sperm count.

For a boy, DH should NOT take or eat soy.



In 2000, environmental estrogens, such as PCBs in fish, were cited as possibly lowering sperm count and possibly interfering with fertility (31). More recently, there was a lot of interest in a small pilot epidemiologic study showing that soy consumers had lower sperm concentrations than men who didn't eat soy (35). But for the most part, the men who consumed soy experienced an increase in semen volume, so that the concentration of sperm was lower - not the total number of sperm. And there were no implications for fertility, since sperm concentration seemed to decrease only among men who had above average sperm concentration to begin with.

In any event, small epi studies don't really tell us too much of anything. We can draw real conclusions only from clinical intervention studies. Three such studies have examined the impact of soy intake on sperm and semen, all with reassuring results:

In the first, British men took supplements that contained 40 milligrams of isoflavones (the amount in about 1 1/2 servings of traditional soyfoods) (32). There was no effect on sperm count or quality.

The other two studies have not yet been published but were presented at the 8th International Symposium on the Role of Soy in Health Promotion and Chronic Disease Prevention and Treatment (36). In one, Italian men were given much higher amounts of isoflavones - equaling four to twelve times what men in Japan typically eat. There was still no effect on sperm.

In the second unpublished study, Canadian researchers compared sperm production in men consuming soy protein to men consuming milk protein - and again, there were no differences in sperm concentration.

But for the most part, the men who consumed soy experienced an increase in semen volume, so that the concentration of sperm was lower - not the total number of sperm <<< would that still help sway girl? just basically makes it more watery? but sperm count remained the same

heres the website I got that from http://www.veganhealth.org/articles/soymessina

[atomic sagebrush]

The vegans are highly motivated in making soy out to be totally harmless. But soy has been shown in studies to lower testosterone and bodybuilders who are the ones who are really testing out a lot of these things. won't touch the stuff because they've tried it and found that it reduces their muscle mass and makes them get higher estrogen (which would be good for those men who are TTC a girl - not ladies)

Either way, I think soy is still good for DH to eat for TTC a girl. If it lowers sperm count, great. If it makes semen more watery and you do a Jump and Dump and more of it falls out taking more sperm with it, that's great too.

[XXdreaming]

so either way its still okay, thanks :)

[carmella_marie]

I went out and bought some "soy isoflavone conentrate" 50 mg pills. Then I read the back and it says:

soy isoflavone concentrate: 50 mg
(40% isoflavones = 20 mg)

So how many pills should I take? Are 2 pills equal to 100 mg or do I need to take 5 pills to hit 100 mg?

[Ribbons]

Are soy isoflavones ok to take if you are BFing a toddler? If I end up with a BFN this cycle, I am thinking of trying them (hoping for twins!)

[Pangea]

When I was researching how to bring back my fertility to try for DS2 while I was breastfeeding DS1 I came across people using it while breastfeeding to kick start ovulation.
I'm tempted by it too because I'd love twins, I think breastfeeding itself increases our chances of twins though. There's a study out there somewhere that says women who conceive while breastfeeding have something like a 12% chance of twins! It sounds too high to me but I hope it's true!

[atomic sagebrush]

BF does increase odds of twinning, I doubt by 12% tho!! That does seem high.

[atomic sagebrush]

Are soy isoflavones ok to take if you are BFing a toddler? If I end up with a BFN this cycle, I am thinking of trying them (hoping for twins!)

Because you take them for such a short time, it's probably ok. I would feed in the am, take the soy, and then wait until that evening to feed again to ensure you've metabolised them.

[SweetLily]

Can the Soy make you ovulate early? I took it from cd 3-8 then ovulated on day 11, which was yesterday. Holy EWCM!!! TMI but it was the most I have EVER had. I am worried that maybe I am entering perimenopause (at 35) cause of weird periods lately....hoping the SI may cause the early O!

[Pangea]

There was a study that says women who conceive while breastfeeding are 9 times more likely to conceive twins. I haven't seen the actual study though, I've just seen it reported.

[Ribbons]

Because you take them for such a short time, it's probably ok. I would feed in the am, take the soy, and then wait until that evening to feed again to ensure you've metabolised them.

I wished I would have asked this at the beginning of last cycle :) oh well! Now I have something to look forward to if I do get a BFN!

[atomic sagebrush]

Can the Soy make you ovulate early? I took it from cd 3-8 then ovulated on day 11, which was yesterday. Holy EWCM!!! TMI but it was the most I have EVER had. I am worried that maybe I am entering perimenopause (at 35) cause of weird periods lately....hoping the SI may cause the early O!

Yes, it absolutely can make you ovulate early, just like Clomid.

[atomic sagebrush]

There was a study that says women who conceive while breastfeeding are 9 times more likely to conceive twins. I haven't seen the actual study though, I've just seen it reported.

Right, I've read that as well - but 9 times more likely does not necessarily mean 12% of all women who conceived via breastfeeding, KWIM?? So many factors go into twinning that the odds for one person aren't going to be the same for others. Here's an article about the study. Want twins? New studies suggest how to increase your odds (http://www.pregnancyandbaby.com/the-hatch-blog/articles/944655/want-twins-new-studies-suggest-how-to-increase-your-odds)

[Pangea]

I think the rate in his study was 12.4%. I know that the odds are just an average, and that they don't apply individually.

[myGirl]

Hi Ladies,
I am interested in taking soy isoflavones next cycle. I am 40 tho, and I know some things (like Clomid) aren't recommended for my age. Would it be ok for me to try soy? I am desperate to get a bfp ASAP, I have had 3 cycles of BFN, (first one just not preventing, then 2 swaying girl).



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[atomic sagebrush]

My understanding is that soy is ok for older ladies TTC. It doesn't have the same stuff in it that raises FSH and in fact may even lower it. So you get the benefit of the Clomid without the potential to affect egg quality negatively.

[myGirl]

My understanding is that soy is ok for older ladies TTC. It doesn't have the same stuff in it that raises FSH and in fact may even lower it. So you get the benefit of the Clomid without the potential to affect egg quality negatively.

I am so so happy to hear this!! Thanks Atomic, you are the best :heart:

This gives me something to look forward to this next cycle :)


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[Lara3]

So when TTC pink, can DH take soy and licorice root? If not, which is better? The past 2 times he has been on everything to increase quality and we will soon be expecting DS2!

[atomic sagebrush]

DH can EAT soy (soy milk, tofu, etc) and take licorice root. I don't think DH should take soy until we have more data.

[Lara3]

Thank you! I will contact you for a personalized plan closer to when we are TTC, but how long before can/should DH start taking licorice root?

[atomic sagebrush]

No sooner than 2 cycles/6 weeks before attempt - so he'd take it AF -O the month before your first attempt, and then AF-O the month OF your first attempt.

[Lara3]

Thanks so much! Really appreciate the help.

[suregena]

Doh! How did I only notice the part about not taking it while breastfeeding now, on CD3, when I plan to take it tonight? Argh! I might go ahead because during the work week he really only feeds maybe once at night. He's 2 1/2 years old, if that matters. I suppose I'm taking it at my own risk? I still think I'll go ahead since breast milk isn't his main source of nutrition and just be mindful during the five days to offer him a drink of something else if he asks for milk...

Input, atomic? Think it matters with a child my son's age?

[cravingsalt]

Sorry if I missed it, trying to read through discretely at work- where do you buy Soy Isoflavones? Would Whole Foods carry in their supplement section?

Thanks!

[atomic sagebrush]

Doh! How did I only notice the part about not taking it while breastfeeding now, on CD3, when I plan to take it tonight? Argh! I might go ahead because during the work week he really only feeds maybe once at night. He's 2 1/2 years old, if that matters. I suppose I'm taking it at my own risk? I still think I'll go ahead since breast milk isn't his main source of nutrition and just be mindful during the five days to offer him a drink of something else if he asks for milk...

Input, atomic? Think it matters with a child my son's age?

No, I don't think it would matter for a 2 1/2 year old that's nursing once a day. I always try to err on the side of conservative because there have been people exclusively EBF a 3 month old who want to take the full gamut of supplements and obviously we can't have that, but it's a totally diff. scenario to your situation.

We're taking EVERYTHING at our own risk - remember, even things that have been well studied and approved by the FDA are often found to cause problems years later!!!

[atomic sagebrush]

Sorry if I missed it, trying to read through discretely at work- where do you buy Soy Isoflavones? Would Whole Foods carry in their supplement section?

Thanks!

You can buy them at any health food store like Super Supplements. I'm not sure about Whole Foods, but I ~think~ Fred Meyer has them in the natural foods section. They aren't at your normal supermarket, but the natural grocery stores may be a lot more likely have them. You may have better selection online however.

[suregena]

No, I don't think it would matter for a 2 1/2 year old that's nursing once a day. I always try to err on the side of conservative because there have been people exclusively EBF a 3 month old who want to take the full gamut of supplements and obviously we can't have that, but it's a totally diff. scenario to your situation.

We're taking EVERYTHING at our own risk - remember, even things that have been well studied and approved by the FDA are often found to cause problems years later!!!


Ah, phew - fantastic! My gut says it shouldn't be a problem, so I'm glad you said that!
I wouldn't consider it if he were 3 months just because then what I take in matters so much to his overall nutrition, but now I'm like a midnight snack/treat/comfort rather than a full on meal! :P Heeheeh.

Thanks, atomic!

[cravingsalt]

Thanks, atomic. I'm on day 3 now (day 5 of cycle). Will report back!

[Shellbelle]

I just started my first round of SI today (cd 3), so I'm right behind you, cravingsalt!

[atomic sagebrush]

Good luck, ladies!!

[Shellbelle]

Thanks! I'll keep y'all updated. This is our third cycle ttc, and I have a short lp, so I'm loving all the helpful info on this site!

[Shellbelle]

Bumping for our new members. :)

[Mum23boys]

Thanks

[atomic sagebrush]

Thanks Shellbelle!

[Atsaukina1]

I was just looking at this at the store and they had it combine w/ 100mg of red clover and thats on your no no list

[Shellbelle]

I was just looking at this at the store and they had it combine w/ 100mg of red clover and thats on your no no list

I ended up having to buy mine online, because our local stores only had it as some sort of combo.

[Atsaukina1]

I was just looking at this at the store and they had it combine w/ 100mg of red clover and thats on your no no list

can you link which one you bought??

[atomic sagebrush]

I was just looking at this at the store and they had it combine w/ 100mg of red clover and thats on your no no list

sorry that's a no go, thats for menopause

[Atsaukina1]

yeah I remeber looking through the list and seeing red clover. walmart had the plain veresion but it did have calcium added but that's on the girl sway so thought it would be ok-

[Shellbelle]

I can't find the link to the ones I took, and I no longer have the bottle. I'm sorry! But they had 60 mg each, so I took 3 a day on days 3-7. I didn't really have any side effects except WAY more EWCM and a feeling of pressure in my abdomen around O time. It took 3 cycles on soy to get my bfp and we don't know if it's a girl or a boy yet.

[Atsaukina1]

hope the wait is easy on you:)

[Shellbelle]

hope the wait is easy on you:)

Thanks! One thing I do think needs to be added (I'm not sure if it came up earlier in this thread or not) but when you're looking at the total mg per capsule, make sure you're looking at the SI amount and not the "full" amount. There should be a place in the nutritional/dosage info that says something like "120 mg capsules, with 40 mg soy isoflavones" or something similar. You want to dose by the actual SI amount. And yes, many of the brands show numbers like this even if it only contains soy -- I know mine did, and there have been other threads about it in the past.

Good luck!

[Atsaukina1]

yeah mine just says 40 mg soy and 150 mg calcium

[atomic sagebrush]

I have never heard of soy with calcium?? That may be for menopause too. how many mg of soy??

I personally would not take the calcium, but if it's a small amount it may be just used for formulating the pill and not to give you a big dose of calcium. BUT if it's some kind of menopause supp, then it may have calcium for bone health and then a smaller dose of soy.

[atomic sagebrush]

yeah mine just says 40 mg soy and 150 mg calcium

Yes, those are not going to work because in order for you to get up to the 100-200 mg soy, you are taking a big dose of calcium. Those are meant for menopausal women who are having hot flashes and are worried about their bone health.

Even if you are a big believer in calcium swaying pink it still won't work because you only take the soy for 5 days and would have to supplement with additional calcium the rest of the month.

[stillwanttwomore]

Ladies,

I wish all of you would do more research before taking any type of soy. I refuse to even let soy into my house, it is so bad for you.

The main reason it is bad for women is that is can drasticailly slow the thyroid down. I used to eat soy products everyday until I was diagnosed with hypothyroid, and the first thing my naturopath told me was to cut out soy. She said it is extremely bad for you, and it messes with your hormones.

[Atsaukina1]

I think most of us are doing it for a very short period of time 5 days vs- vegetarians and vegans who might use soy everything daily. I am not a big soy fan but I don't see the risks for this short period of time-

[atomic sagebrush]

Ladies,

I wish all of you would do more research before taking any type of soy. I refuse to even let soy into my house, it is so bad for you.

The main reason it is bad for women is that is can drasticailly slow the thyroid down. I used to eat soy products everyday until I was diagnosed with hypothyroid, and the first thing my naturopath told me was to cut out soy. She said it is extremely bad for you, and it messes with your hormones.

This is 100% true and is in the essay. That having been said, that's people who are EATING a lot of soy, day in and day out (strict vegans and some people who are lactose intolerant) Taking it for 5 days, while def. something that people with thyroid issues should avoid, it is ok for the average gal on the street.

[BabyCakesTor]

Can DH take SI and drink Monsters? Or would you recommend him not to take SI at all and only have me take it. I am trying for the fastest BFP pink sway ;)

[atomic sagebrush]

We don't have enough info on guys taking soy iso. It probably sways pink, but at the same time can cause infertility and even brain fog in guys who were taking it. I'd stick with the Monsters (worked for us!)

[BabyCakesTor]

Thanks Atomic!

[Atsaukina1]

monsters- the energy drinks?? that sways girl??

[becca]

[QUOTE=atomic sagebrush;13199]
Soy milk and beans are believed to be acidifying while tofu is believed to be alkalinizing, so it's hard to know what exactly is going on with that. :confused:

I'm not sure at all but one reason for the difference in ph between the soys could be --- tofu/soy sauce are made with fermented soy while soy milk and beans are made with fresh. I've read that the only soy that's really digested easily is the fermented soy. I did some research after my DD1 was getting constipated all the time. She ate edamame constantly and I had her on soy milk thinking the regular milk was doing it. Now we're on almond milk and have been having consistent BM's. Who knows for sure!

[atomic sagebrush]

monsters- the energy drinks?? that sways girl??

we don't know but it has worked for several people including me. when drunk by dh

[rachel]

what does clomid and soy together sway for?

[Atsaukina1]

I took a lot of soy isoflavones when I was ttc DD4 . Just want to say no way I take soy again.

can I ask why not?? might help to share.
I took it from cd2-6 only 80mg. but did no have any side effects(headachescramping,ect.)
my O came 3 days earlier but who knows if that's from soy or just cause. in the 2ww so we'll see. Would love to hear your experiance to offer another side even if it is not positive,always best to have more info.

[atomic sagebrush]

what does clomid and soy together sway for?

You can't take BOTH Clomid and soy. One or the other.

[atomic sagebrush]

can I ask why not?? might help to share.
I took it from cd2-6 only 80mg. but did no have any side effects(headachescramping,ect.)
my O came 3 days earlier but who knows if that's from soy or just cause. in the 2ww so we'll see. Would love to hear your experiance to offer another side even if it is not positive,always best to have more info.

Because she wanted a boy and got a girl.

[rachel]

i read somewhere if you take it together it helps with your lining to not thin out....????

[atomic sagebrush]

Don't mix Clomid and soy. They interfere with each other.

[mrs magoo]

So to clarify vitex and soy iso is no-no? What about soy iso and SP?

[atomic sagebrush]

no vitex or SP or pep tea; no EPO, flaxseed for blue - nothing hormonal with soy

[tee]

My understanding is that soy is ok for older ladies TTC. It doesn't have the same stuff in it that raises FSH and in fact may even lower it. So you get the benefit of the Clomid without the potential to affect egg quality negatively.

please how do i take soy iso to increase my chances of twinnings and what other things should i take to support this.

[youplusbooequalszoo]

Hi Atomic Sagebrush
can you point me in the direction of the no no list! and why is red clover bad? thanks

[atomic sagebrush]

please how do i take soy iso to increase my chances of twinnings and what other things should i take to support this.

http://genderdreaming.com/forum/gender-swaying-general-discussion/1089-conceiving-twins.html

[atomic sagebrush]

Hi Atomic Sagebrush
can you point me in the direction of the no no list! and why is red clover bad? thanks

What no-no list?? For what specifically?

Red clover is bad for the same reason soy isoflavones are bad, they have high levels of "phytoestrogens" in them that may conflict with your body's natural estrogen. Red clover has been shown in animal studies to cause infertility and it's also just generally bad for you.

[Coyleof7]

Hi - as I mentioned on a different post my GP has recommended giving SI a try to sway pink (think she enjoys the drama involved lol) as we tried Vitex (pink sway) last time and got my latest beautiful boy!! So - the Vitex didn't work. I've upped my calcium intake via food and pretty much cut out salt, but wasn't a fan of salty foods anyway. My question is - she hasn't explained how to take it?? I've got 50mg tablets (pure SI - no other supplements added) - so do I take one or two and how often? I notice if I take them early on, I'll increase the chance of multiples - which I want to avoid (got 5 - want 6...not 7 or more)? I don't take BC pill - always used natural family planning (all kids were planned - we know what we're doing lol) and don't take any other supplements. Just trying to have a baby girl after four boys!! My oldest of my 5 is a girl but I can't replicate the circumstances of her birth as I HAD been on BC for 6yrs prior due to tricky AF and I was underweight as all I ate was mac n cheese and drank Irn Bru (I wasn't very good at looking after myself) - after she was born the BC got scrapped and I started to eat properly due to BF and wanting to give her the best...habits stuck lol Sorry - I digressed a bit there - any advice on the SI?? cheers xx

[atomic sagebrush]

Well, the vitex may have worked, but if you go from 75% likely to have a boy, to 70% likely, that's still a heck of a lot of boys. people view swaying like it's a switch that gets flipped but it's more like a sieve or a radio dial http://genderdreaming.com/forum/gender-swaying-general-discussion/25293-three-essays-swaying.html

Do you normally ovulate CD 14 or later? Then take the soy iso 50 mg days 5-9. If you ov. earlier than CD 14 you'll need to move it back to 4-8, 3-7, even 2-6, but we believe that if you take it earlier in the cycle, it raises odds for twins.

[Coyleof7]

Do you normally ovulate CD 14 or later?

Not sure exactly when I ovulate (but is regular going by CM), that's why I'm starting to chart this month. We're planning to try in September, which gives us just under three months of "sway time" starting this month. One other question - do I only use SI the month we plan on trying or in the months building up to the big BD? We're trying the o+12 method, as BD before O seems to have given us all the boys (going by CM, we always DTD when I had EWCM and it always got me pregnant)

[atomic sagebrush]

The reason I ask when you ovulate, is that if you ovulate earlier than CD 14, you need to start the soy earlier in your cycle in order to give it the proper amount of time to work.

If you O on the early side CD 10-12, then take the soy iso starting CD 2 thru CD 6.

If you O on the normal range CD 13-16, then take the soy iso CD 3-7 if you want a chance at twins, CD 5-9 if you would prefer one baby (this is a little dicy if you generally O CD 13), and CD 4-8 if you are indecisive.

If you tend to O on the later side CD 16 and beyond, then you ~may~ want to take the soy iso CD 5-9 BUT you may also take it earlier and it can help you O sooner in the cycle. Oing sooner can mean you have more cycles in which to try, before the diet drives you totally insane LOL.

I have a diatribe about O+12 here, please also check out the link I posted mid-diatribe. I really don't recommend it. The reason why you got boys DTD before O is because your reproductive tract is designed to conceive from BD before o. Virtually all the people ever conceived, males and femalers alike, are from BD before O because that's what your body is made to do. http://genderdreaming.com/forum/trying-conceive-girl/31571-o-12-help.html

Soy iso month of attempt only.

[onebigwish]

Can i give dh SI 50mg and LR together ? From af to O only.... And another question, can i take SI like clomid CD 5-9? I have no problems with ttc and have regular cycles,i O on day 14. would the SI move my O up? And what are the side effects ?

[Shannshaff]

Is SI a good option to try if I can't take Vitex? I took it the cycle I got my BFP with DS3, but I had to stop taking it because I appear to be allergic to it.

[Coyleof7]

oh- well that was some reading on my part lol guess I'm just going to do the diet up to Sept and then add in the the SI on Sept cycle. going by my dates and all if I fall in Sept I should have my gender scan in Jan/feb so will let you all know. Thanks Atomic, glad I joined this site now x

[atomic sagebrush]

Can i give dh SI 50mg and LR together ? From af to O only.... And another question, can i take SI like clomid CD 5-9? I have no problems with ttc and have regular cycles,i O on day 14. would the SI move my O up? And what are the side effects ?

LR + SI is uncharted territory so I can't say if that's ok or not. Personally I would just give him the soy milk with the LR because people have done that and it seems ok (their husbands could still perform). The risk with the LR + SI, is that testosterone and estrogen are really weirdly balanced and when you mess around with one, you can affect the other one. So it may make the LR less effective, or it may be TOO effective and DH may not be able to DTD taking both.

Yes, you can take SI like Clomid on days 5-9. All the info on how to do that is in the essay or else in the replies afterwards. yes, it may change your O day.

The side effects are also in the essay, I believe.

[atomic sagebrush]

Is SI a good option to try if I can't take Vitex? I took it the cycle I got my BFP with DS3, but I had to stop taking it because I appear to be allergic to it.

They're botanically unrelated so the SI shouldn't cause the same reaction, but of course soy is a common allergen, so you may be allergic to that too.

[onebigwish]

This cycle i tested SI. but seems like no O is approaching...
i O normally on day 14 and from day CD 10 i see fertile CM but this cycle i havent seen anything fertile cm. I took it days 4-8
CD4: 50 mg. CD5: 75mg CD CD6: 75mg CD7: 100mg CD8: 100mg
this is very weird?

[atomic sagebrush]

what cycle day are you on?

It's known to delay ovulation, that's nothing unusual whatsoever.

[onebigwish]

I am on cycleday 15. My cycles are 28 days,does SI change lenght of cycle too?

[atomic sagebrush]

If your follicular phase (time before ovulation) is longer, then yes, your whole cycle will be longer as well, usually.

CD 15 and no O is not even considered late ovulation. I wouldn't worry about it, I'm sure the soy has just delayed it a bit.

question, your signature says you will TTC in 2015 and so did that change or what?? I'm not sure it's a good idea to take soy months and years in advance.

[onebigwish]

Yes changed, 2014. But i am only testing it for one month.
Question: is it normal that i am crying all the time becaise of the SI? ist like PMS what i am having right now...:S

[atomic sagebrush]

yes, the SI can make you real emotional.

[onebigwish]

O my god! Thats why! When those hormones leave my body? Im feeling terrible.....

[atomic sagebrush]

It's different for everyone, I'm sorry.

[onebigwish]

Feeling better :P
But obviously i didnt O at all ! the soy has prevent me from Oing. Im on CD 20. I have regular cycles from 28days and usually O on day 14. I am blaming myself for Messing with soy i will never test this again ! this is really scary stuff !
havent seen EWCM at all ! ist always creamy...
is that possible the soy can prevent me from Oing? If so how can clomid work for me then?

[atomic sagebrush]

Your O is just delayed, you will almost certainly still O.

Clomid is totally different than soy, made out of different chemicals that are much stronger and more effective. The only thing that's similar about soy and Clomid is how they act on the body. Clomid is much better.

[onebigwish]

AF came yesterday CD28. This whole cycle i didnt see any EWCM at all. What i read that soy makes more ewcm, but the si made me very creamy this cycle,dont know when Oed? Can i get AF when i had no Ovulation?

[atomic sagebrush]

If AF came, the odds are very good that you ovulated.

I personally am not convinced that soy does make lots of EWCM for everyone.

[onebigwish]

i was temping and it Shows that my O was on day 14. The soy did not do anything different for me! i hope the clomid will move up my O to CD18 :(

[impatientlywaiting]

I'm jumping in here new because I came across this on google :) I took soy iso last cycle CD 3-7 but didn't end up pregnant (we ended up not being able to time things properly). Interested in giving it a go again this cycle. We want to sway girl (DH would like twins actually lol) taking cranberry, calcium and following a mostly girl diet. Calcium and SI was mentioned on this thread earlier... my SI has calcium in it and is marketed to menopausal women...is this bad? Should I ditch it? Or is it just bad if you are trying to sway boy? We have been ttc before the Fall so this is our last shot...if we don't conceive this cycle we might have to push ttc back for timing purposes so I'm really hoping we'll conceive...I'm a bit nervous that taking SI will mess up my last shot some how though (although last cycle was pretty normal).

Also about the EWCM and SI: I don't think it makes EWCM for everyone...I didn't notice much (I usually don't have much) when I took it.

[atomic sagebrush]

Thanks for letting us know about your experience! And welcome!

I suspect that people who said that soy made a lot of EWCM were swaying blue and taking it for that reason, and so it is entirely possible that the blue sway tactics are what is making that EWCM and the soy is just coincidental.

On paper, the soy looks to me like it will effectively lower estrogen, dry up CM, and sway pink. It may not happen the first month you are on it but it ~should~ happen over the course of time. If it doesn't, people have the option of using antihistamine to dry up CM.

Soy is marketed for menopausal women. That's who it's sold to and who buys most of it. It doesn't mean it's dangerous or harmful for you. I personally don't believe calcium sways pink, but if you're taking the calcium anyway then a little more calcium in your soy iso will not hurt anything.

[Atsaukina1]

I saw on some people's sways that they started with vitex and then did soy the next month. What is the point of doing this vs w/ sticking with one or the other?? I took soy w/ my last sway but planning to start vitex for next one. I see you can't take them both together.

[atomic sagebrush]

I saw on some people's sways that they started with vitex and then did soy the next month. What is the point of doing this vs w/ sticking with one or the other?? I took soy w/ my last sway but planning to start vitex for next one. I see you can't take them both together.

It may be a better sway to take V and SP for 6 straight weeks without stopping, and then switching to soy at AF. The problem is, a lot of people will not ovulate when taking V and SP and then will not get AF in order to start the soy to begin with. It's a good method if you ovulate while taking V and SP, but very stressful if you don't because you'll have to stop them and wait around for ovulation and then AF in order to start the soy.

A compromise that I'm not sure if anyone has done, is to start V and SP AFTER ovulation the month before you want to start the soy. So you'd take them for 2 weeks O-AF and then start the soy CD 3,4,5 and take for 5 days

[jennibel]

It may be a better sway to take V and SP for 6 straight weeks without stopping, and then switching to soy at AF. The problem is, a lot of people will not ovulate when taking V and SP and then will not get AF in order to start the soy to begin with. It's a good method if you ovulate while taking V and SP, but very stressful if you don't because you'll have to stop them and wait around for ovulation and then AF in order to start the soy.

A compromise that I'm not sure if anyone has done, is to start V and SP AFTER ovulation the month before you want to start the soy. So you'd take them for 2 weeks O-AF and then start the soy CD 3,4,5 and take for 5 days

This is what I am considering this cycle, how effect is this likely to be for a pink sway? Not sure whether to do this or stick with sp and vitex, so confused!

[atomic sagebrush]

Well, please understand that I have a limited pool to draw from but I have seen a successes doing it this way. Not a lot of people have done it tho and many did not get pg.

The trouble is, as I mentioned in my quote there, that you may stop ovulation and then have to wait around for O and then AF by which time you'd have been off the V and SP for awhile. so it may be better to take them O-AF that month before you are wanting to TTC and then starting the soy on CD 3

[jennibel]

Think I have decided to stick with SP and vitex for now, thank you atomic x

[atomic sagebrush]

jennibel I was thinking, some of us have only gotten pg when we dropped the V and/or SP - maybe something to think about??

[CloudMama]

I'm a late ovulator (usually CD18 or 19) and hoping for twins. So, when would you recommend I use the SI? I was thinking CD2-6 and taking 180mg (3x60mg pills).

Also does it matter when during the day you take them?

[atomic sagebrush]

If you ovulate late I think you should start them CD 3-7. I want your follicles to get started on their own a bit before you take the soy and if you O late, they may be slower to start with and thus I think 3-7 is smarter than 2-6 (you may not get ANYTHING if you start too soon.)

I think 120 is better for your case than 180.

Most take them at night to avoid side effects.

[aidansmum]

Had my Clomid cycle and HATED it! Unfortunately it wasn't my turn and am about to get AF now. I would really like to try SI instead. I ovulated CD18-20 on Clomid (my chart looked like a mountain range so it was hard to track, and Clomid gave me +OPKs for days on end....crazy). My usual O has always been CD14-15. When should I take it? I am 40 btw. I'm still undecided as to trying SI or just going with Vitex and SP. What do you think?
Or should I just swallow 5 more Clomids and spend another fortune on OPK's??? :)

[atomic sagebrush]

be prepared, the soy may be just as ucky for you.

as a general rule I don't recommend Clomid for older moms anyway because it can raise FSH. My inclination would be for you to do NOTHING this month (no C, V, SP, or soy) - I have seen several people 38+ get pg the month after taking Clomid.

[atomic sagebrush]

...preg with almost all girls too btw...

[aidansmum]

Thanks Atomic, but wouldn't that just mean not swaying at all and risking another boy?? Not even jellies??? I have to decide what to do pretty quick, it's cycle day 1 now and I am so confused as to what to do! Sorry to pick your brain so much but why do you think a cycle after Clomid would sway girl?

[aidansmum]

By the way, I did ovulate on Vitex all 3 cycles I took it and my 1 cycle on SP just made my O slightly later. Are you sure I shouldn't at least have that combo until O?

[atomic sagebrush]

Thanks Atomic, but wouldn't that just mean not swaying at all and risking another boy?? Not even jellies??? I have to decide what to do pretty quick, it's cycle day 1 now and I am so confused as to what to do! Sorry to pick your brain so much but why do you think a cycle after Clomid would sway girl?

Clomid does sway pink (you would agree) and Clomid can stay in your system for a good two cycles afterwards - keep in mind we have no real clue how the Clomid works for swaying so we don't even know that we need to have taken it the month of conception for it to work. When you're actively taking it, it may work TOO well and inhibit conception, so the month coming off the Clomid can be the best of both worlds - you have whatever the Clomid is doing on your side, plus you

The reason I think it sways pink is because I've seen a lot of people get girls the first month off the Clomid. I don't know how or why, but it's enough to make me say hmmm... In the interest of full disclosure tho, they were mostly all on it longer than one month. A couple were on it for 2 months, however.

When I said do nothing, I meant none of the things you mentioned - V, SP, Clomid, soy. not other sway tactics. Those are at your discretion.

Aside from all that, time is not our friend here. We don't have months to spare with Clomid because we don't know if it is raising your FSH - my thinking is, if the Clomid is making you miserable, let it go becuase you prob. shouldn't be on it anyway, and let's capitalize on this "magic month" and see what happens for you. I DON'T want to see you squander what could be a great month by mucking your cycle around with soy and V/SP when our golden egg may be heading your way soon.

Hope that makes sense, sometimes it's tough to elucidate what is largely insticntive to me at this point. :p

[atomic sagebrush]

By the way, I did ovulate on Vitex all 3 cycles I took it and my 1 cycle on SP just made my O slightly later. Are you sure I shouldn't at least have that combo until O?

I ovulated on Vitex for 6 months and did not get pg till I dropped it (and I had gotten successfully preggers on it once before!) That has been the experience of several of us, particularly those who are "of a certain age" LOL. Check out dramabird and Beadinmom's threads, they had the same experience. Seemingly everything is fine, but BFN. I think you should leave them out of the equation so as not to waste what may be an otherwise great month.

[XXforhubby]

Deleted and posted in private forum.