Sperm spinning

[vickyaust]

Hi Dr Potter,

Do you offer any sort of sperm spinning? I read recently that a clinic in NY does it and it may help those of us trying for our xx.

Can you explain it please.

Many thanks.

[Dr. Potter]

Hi Dr Potter,

Do you offer any sort of sperm spinning? I read recently that a clinic in NY does it and it may help those of us trying for our xx.

Can you explain it please.

Many thanks.

Sperm spinning does not work. We are happy to do it for free but it yields a gender ratio of 1:1. The only sperm separation technique that is proven to work is MicroSort. The rest are bogus.

[vickyaust]

Thanks Dr Potter.

[4devochki]

Dr. Potter, what do you think of this: Significant enrichment of Y-bearing chromosome ... [Int J Androl. 2012] - PubMed - NCBI (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22882481)

[Wanting a daughter]

Also very interested in your response.

[Dr. Potter]

Dr. Potter, what do you think of this: Significant enrichment of Y-bearing chromosome ... [Int J Androl. 2012] - PubMed - NCBI (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22882481)It is pretty dubious. Five patients? He has broken the code that no one has been able to break for 30 years? I will order the full text article to see if he fully describes his technique but smart money says he doesn't. I would be happy to test out his technique or believe it once it has been been replicated at other centers. There is a 2.8% difference in the DNA mass between X and Y bearing sperm. The rest of the sperm cell accounts for more than 99.9% of the overall mass of the sperm cell. To use a centrifuge to separate such a minute difference in mass is like plucking an eye lash with a pipe wrench.

[Wanting a daughter]

Interesting... We've seen alot of ladies on here go to him and get really good gender splits. Something like 80/20. Unless of course he is not giving us the whole picture from the lab...
Can't wait for your update after reading the entire article.
Thanks Dr P

[atomic sagebrush]

It is pretty dubious. Five patients? He has broken the code that no one has been able to break for 30 years? I will order the full text article to see if he fully describes his technique but smart money says he doesn't. I would be happy to test out his technique or believe it once it has been been replicated at other centers. There is a 2.8% difference in the DNA mass between X and Y bearing sperm. The rest of the sperm cell accounts for more than 99.9% of the overall mass of the sperm cell. To use a centrifuge to separate such a minute difference in mass is like plucking an eye lash with a pipe wrench.

This was just so awesome I had to quote it. :bowdown:

[lisvna]

But apparently it works......Microsort did also work and in the past we thought also that it wouldn't work.... I want to believe him and I still do....

[GT77]

who is the doctor from NY?

[GT77]

which doctor are u referring to 80% splits?

[Wanting a daughter]

Dr P- NBP posted this link to the article- http://genderdreaming.com/forum/attachments/research-interesting-articles/8586d1359817937-genesis-sperm-sorting-technique-paper-sperm-sorting.pdf
Can't wait to hear your thoughts. :)

GT77- The article was written by Dr Savvas from Genesis in Cyprus. He is the one we were referring to.

[Dr. Potter]

Dr P- NBP posted this link to the article- http://genderdreaming.com/forum/attachments/research-interesting-articles/8586d1359817937-genesis-sperm-sorting-technique-paper-sperm-sorting.pdf
Can't wait to hear your thoughts. :)

GT77- The article was written by Dr Savvas from Genesis in Cyprus. He is the one we were referring to.
I read the article. It is well written. It seems to provide sufficient detail for us to try to reproduce it. I have forwarded it to my laboratory team (Charlotte Khoury and Barry Behr http://www.havingbabies.com/about-hrc/staff/barry-behr/ ) to have them examine it and see if they feel that we can create a trial. I remain skeptical though.

My other comments on the trial are:
1. It is very small
2. The outcome that they are measuring (FISH results) is not the actual outcome that we care about (i.e. the gender ratio of live born normal babies or even embryos). It seems odd that would not have carried it one step further and shown that using sperm treated in this manner also changes the gender ratio of the resulting embryos.
3. The shots that the authors take at MicroSort safety are completely groundless and obviously motivated by their desire to discredit their competitor there on Cyprus.
4. If it does work, it does not work for the reasons that they speculate on in the article. Not buying the ‘difference in mass’ story that they are trying to sell.

[nuthinbutpink]

I'm sure we could come up with some volunteers for the trial from here! Congrats on the soon to be new addition to your family! What a surprise!!

[GT77]

I found someone in NY that does this Dr. Masood Khatamee! Granted I am skeptical also, but u never know!
And, dr. silverman does the eriscsson. And, I know these are not 100% but still a hope! I think silverman uses clomid & Khatameel method u do not need clomid. I do not know anything about any of these methods but it is worth exploring.

[GT77]

they also say if u sway for a girl at the same time that you do this method it increases your odds. Who knows what works!! I know PGD is a sure thing, but u still have no idea how many embryos of girls you will get from 1 cycle. So, IVF is still risky when your someone like me who is paying out of pocket.

[nuthinbutpink]

Ericsson and this spinning is not the same. Ericsson works under the premise that boy sperm are faster swimmers than female and it utilizes a swim-down procedure. Ericsson has never been studied outside of Ericsson and I am certain there is a reason for that- they know it doesn't really do anything!

[Wanting a daughter]

Dr P- please keep us updated on your trial idea. As NBP said, there won't be a shortage of volunteers...

[seven gorgeous babies]

I am one of the ladies who has first hand experience of dr Savvas sperm sort.
I had 2 xy and 6 xx after the sort. Ive only seen one lady who the sort didn't seem to work for.
All the other ladies had a 70% desired gender sort and more often a lot higher than that!

He can't be making lab work and results up as someone suggested.

So something is obviously working as again I have the two perfect girls he transferred sat eatimg lunch right now

[my4leafclover]

Is icsi used with the sperm sort? I am thinking any study results on gender split of embryos where icsi is used may be skewed due to the fact that human intervention is involved. When embryologists are using icsi in creating embryos, are there specific criteria they use to choose which sperm to grab and inject into the egg?

[nuthinbutpink]

I hope ICSI is used. All that spinning, I would not want to rely on tired sperm getting the job done.

They look for the healthiest moving/looking sperm. Types of movement like you read on others sites to "determine" males from females is totally false.

Actually, there's a post where I asked Carole about it.

I see what you're saying but sperm can only take so much and still be able to do the job!

[4devochki]

I've read that ICSI skews pretty significantly XX, so I would be afraid to use it even with a spun sample.

[glory]

4devochki I would not risk not doing ICSI, there have only been a handful here who have used IVF to fertilise and results have not always been great. My first cycle I had a zero fertilisation of 9 eggs and someone recently had 18 eggs and zero fert. We both used rescue ICSI, I had 5 fertilise all abnormal and the other one got 1 normal out of the 18, which then resulted in a BFN.

I have used ICSI since and I have had pretty much 50:50 gender split, I have had more normal girls though.

[nuthinbutpink]

I've read that ICSI skews pretty significantly XX, so I would be afraid to use it even with a spun sample.

ICSI is recommended with PGD anyway. If sperm cannot move because they are tired, you get zero fert. Gender is 50/50 no matter how you fertilize. And more boys are born via IVF so I don't think that holds true.

[Hoping4Kaylani]

I've read that ICSI skews pretty significantly XX, so I would be afraid to use it even with a spun sample.

There have been several of us with a more male, or all male dominant spilt, that I can think of. To the point where I thought it might be skewing the results in a male favor. I haven't personally seen that happen.

[Wanting a daughter]

Dr P- any response from your lab regarding the possibility of reproducing a trial??

[lisvna]

Curious too!

[Wanting a daughter]

Bumping...

[Wanting a daughter]

Bumping again....

[Wanting a daughter]

I read the article. It is well written. It seems to provide sufficient detail for us to try to reproduce it. I have forwarded it to my laboratory team (Charlotte Khoury and Barry Behr Barry Behr, PhD, HCLD | Staff | About HRC (http://www.havingbabies.com/about-hrc/staff/barry-behr/) ) to have them examine it and see if they feel that we can create a trial. I remain skeptical though.

My other comments on the trial are:
1. It is very small
2. The outcome that they are measuring (FISH results) is not the actual outcome that we care about (i.e. the gender ratio of live born normal babies or even embryos). It seems odd that would not have carried it one step further and shown that using sperm treated in this manner also changes the gender ratio of the resulting embryos.
3. The shots that the authors take at MicroSort safety are completely groundless and obviously motivated by their desire to discredit their competitor there on Cyprus.
4. If it does work, it does not work for the reasons that they speculate on in the article. Not buying the ‘difference in mass’ story that they are trying to sell.

Bumping again... What did Charlotte and Barry think??

[lisvna]

Curious too!!!

[Dr. Potter]

I hope ICSI is used. All that spinning, I would not want to rely on tired sperm getting the job done.

They look for the healthiest moving/looking sperm. Types of movement like you read on others sites to "determine" males from females is totally false.

Actually, there's a post where I asked Carole about it.

I see what you're saying but sperm can only take so much and still be able to do the job!I agree, ICSI should be done in all cases.

[Wanting a daughter]

Soooo, what did Charlotte and Barry think? Any chance of a trial??

[M120299]

Sperm spinning does not work. We are happy to do it for free but it yields a gender ratio of 1:1. The only sperm separation technique that is proven to work is MicroSort. The rest are bogus.

Hi Dr. Potter.
Rather than creating a new post I searched through some old ones and noticed this comment you made.

Your GSA affiliate says you now offer erricson method which i assume is a method of sperm sorting. Has the technology changed where you have found it to be useful or is it still in your opinion 'bogus' but you're offering it to appeal to those who insist it's legitimate ?

I understand it had been 7 years since that comment so perhaps technology has gone further ? I am interested in having a boy to balance by family and it seems on the website stories / blogs most women only have female viable embryos. Are they lucky (which indeed would make me unlucky) or is there a new method of sperm sorting you have found useful.

Thankyou in advance

[atomic sagebrush]

I'm not Dr. Potter, but spinning has not worked, and reputable clinics focus on PGD techniques where you try to get as many embryos as possible and then expect that half of them will be your desired gender. Good luck!

[M120299]

I'm not Dr. Potter, but spinning has not worked, and reputable clinics focus on PGD techniques where you try to get as many embryos as possible and then expect that half of them will be your desired gender. Good luck!

Hi atomic. That was my understanding but Dr. Potter is now offering this method with PGD hence why I'm asking whether there are some advances in the technology.

The thought of spending all that money to be left with only XX and no XY gives me anxiety. Id happy spend more money at Potter than other clinics if he has a method that can give me a better chance.

Anyway would like to know your thoughts on this Dr Potter. Thankyoy

[Dr. Potter]

We offer a method similar to Ericsson method but without damaging the sperm, for patients that opt for that, but nothing has changed to make it a distinctly more effective procedure. We still don’t have a way to precisely and accurately sort these sperm for the gender.