WOW - this is a new low for a doc's office. Devastating and INFURIATING

[LacePrincess]

Wow I don't even know what to say. I'm outraged, shocked, furious, so upset.

So I called my GP's office this morning telling them I was losing the pregnancy and that I no longer needed the prenatal appointment next week. However I said I wanted to keep the slot (30 min long with the dr) and do a physical/checkup instead, and make sure everything was ok. Also a pap as I was overdue. Might as well make sure no infections or anything that could've been a problem and get my bloods drawn to ensure no hcg, etc.

First they never even asked how I was bleeding or asked me to come in to get checked out, do an u/s, bloodwork, etc. They did ask me if I was sure, and I said yes, bleeding and cramping and cervix was open. I don't think she believed that I could check my own cervix.

Anyways so she said that was fine and I'd get a physical instead, great!

About half an hour ago she called and said that I wouldn't have time for a physical, as I was now only booked for a regular consult which is only 10 min long! I'm like WTF? I had a THIRTY MINUTE slot. This is not a matter of availability and 'squeezing' me in somewhere. I HAD that booking! She replied that since I was no longer preggo I now didn't qualify for a prenatal booking, and that since the doc only allowed for so many physical slots in her schedule I'd have to wait until JUNE to get a physical. "Sorry, but that's policy. You understand I have to abide by policy."

WHAT. THE. EVER. HOLY. FUCK. I think my jaw hung open for awhile, literally.

So I'm starting to cry, and I say fine, well, just give me the prenatal back, after all I hadn't been to another clinic or doctor or ER, I'm self diagnosing, so just put that I'm just bleeding in early pregnancy then.

Oh no, can't do that she says. Puts me on hold, talks to her supervisor. Comes back and says they can give me an extra 5 frigging minutes.

I'm so shocked and furious at this point. I said fine, leave it, but understand that you're rubbing salt in the wound right now. And that I'm shopping for another doctor TODAY. She spouts that stupid policy line at me again.

I'm so upset that I burst into tears hanging up. I just couldn't believe it. Miscarriages are so depressing and awful and crushing and isolating already, and I get treated like this!?? Not to mention it's borderline negligent malpractice not to insist that I come in for an u/s and bloodwork and check nothing's retained.

You know what I think? I think they don't believe I was ever preggo in the first place. I think they figure I was late for AF and just got my period, and that's why I'm bleeding. I think also that they assume this because I don't insist on coming in today to get my m/c verified. Well I think we all know what assuming gets you!!!

My MIL suggested I write a letter of complaint when I calm down which is a great idea. Also, I'm going to include a picture of all my BFP's to PROVE that I WAS pregnant. Heck, even a copy of my FF chart!

And then I will send a copy to their corporate office, and make copies for the receptionist secretary and the Doc. I don't want compensation, maybe an apology. Most of all I want them to change their idiotic policy they hide behind and maybe get some freaking compassion training. I'm still in shock and outrage. What if this had happened to someone more devastated than me? WTF!

[RedCanoe]

Yup, gotta love government run health care... 100% "policy" and 0% customer service.

Sorry you're going through this, Lace. *hugs*

[Wanting-a-girl]

So sorry for your terrible experience drs are assholes! And secretary's are even worst!

[LacePrincess]

Yeah this is a great example of what happens with corporate run health care funded by provincial dollars. This clinic is a chain. I've noticed their services go into the crapper for years but didn't want to change, this is the kick in the pants I needed.

So I booked in with the Family Health Centre in the small town I now live in, and even over the phone they seem much nicer. Hopefully I'll have a better experience. The good thing is they do have lab facilities and ultrasounds right in the building so it's much more convenient too.

I can't wait to call the other doc's office and tell them they're FIRED. Man I'm so mad now I'm still shaking.

[harleyquinn]

I think you should write the letter of complaint, even if it gets you nothing, it provides personal closure.

About 8 years ago, I had my first m/c. Cycles were irregular due to nursing, so I didn't know how far along I was, and hadn't had my first appt yet...back in those days, I liked to just nurture myself at home before getting doctors involved right away. Anyway, I lost the baby at home and it was about the size of an apricot, and was very painful to pass. I could see little white, gelatinous firm things that looked parts of a baby. So I put the baby in a box and stupidly WAITED until my husband could drop the box off at the doctors office to be tested, rather than dropping it off fresh.

So they test the blob, and the doctor tells me there is no living cells in that sample, no chorionic villi...NOTHING that indicates a pregnancy so then I am summoned for bloodwork which showed an Hcg of 5 which he says is NOT preganant and shows I probably never was. I repeatedly say I had a positive pregnancy test but he says I'm sorry but this is a "psychological pregnancy".

Obviously I never went back to him, but I always wished I would of filed a complaint and I still think I should even these years later...because of that experience, I have never brought in products of conception again, and have always (until recently) managed my m/c all by myself at home because I never want someone to tell me again that the pg is all in my head. I never want to drop off my baby again, and someone tell me that its normal to pass apricot sized clots. So I didn't get help for alot of years because of that horrid man.

I'm sorry you are going through this and losing the baby. WRite the letter and make the most of your 15 minute visit.

[LacePrincess]

Harley, what an absolute complete jackass. I suspect that your sample probably got tossed, from the sounds of it. :( Terrible.

I'm so glad I hadn't thrown away my FRER's yet, at least they can serve a purpose after all!

Yk I wasn't all that upset about the m/c, but being treated like that certainly did it. I really wanted to ask that horrid bitch if she kicked puppies in her spare time. I just cannot comprehend how anyone can be so cold hearted.

I'm definitely going to write a letter. I plan on sending it registered mail to corporate and having hubby hand deliver a copy to the reception supervisor, and a copy to the dr. I will also write an additional letter to the doc telling her that I was pleased with her personally but that the policies of the office are simply unbearable and are compromising the very basics of standard care. It might not change anything but as you say it'll bring me closure.

[Just <3 One <3 Girl]

Lacey iam new to boards but i just wanted to say im sorry for your loss :-( its unfortunate how desensitized people can be sometimes.

[OnlyPraying]

sigh...Our medical system sucks. God forbid anyone be nice to the patients... So sorry you became a victim to this failed white elephant we call the canadian medical system.

[harleyquinn]

Just be so kind to yourself. I am glad you got an appt somewhere else...sometimes thats all it takes. Where I live, I have no choice but to stick it out with Miss So and So at the front desk that tells me there is no WAY my digital would say PREGNANT if my hcg is a 7...sigh.

Its almost like, with doctors they assume you are crazy and hyperchondriac until they can swoop in and save the day and make you "normal"...I"m always treated like an idiot which is why I have high blood pressure ONLY in the doctors office. Thats why I keep my mouth shut and my ears open and don't mention things like cervixes...if I pretty much pretend I don't know what a uterus or a luteal phase is, and all goes well. I"m kinda joking but not really either. :P

[LacePrincess]

Oh yeah, I totally kwym Harley. Isn't there even a term for that? God complex?

It's like, they want to diagnose you and 'help' and 'save' you. And then they treat you like idiots for telling them about your OWN body, cycle, etc. Of course never ever say you found out anything on the internet, even though pubmed articles are quite available online.

Hey, my doc called everything symptomatic due to stress and still believed you alternate ovaries ovulating each month! The less said about that stupid ass pregnancy wheel the better. And yet, they overbook so much for the sake of $$$ that they make themselves unavailable when I do need their 'expertise'. A bit of a conflict, no?

I dunno, long ago I lost all respect for any so called 'doctor' that patronized me and talked down to me and shut me down if I said anything technical like 'progesterone'. Life's too short to deal with idiots who could kill you, literally. Which is why I treasure my psychiatrist SO MUCH. He respects me, never talks down with me, actually uses technical terms for everything and thinks enough of me to talk TO me and not AT me. Last appt we spent a good 20 min chatting about the latest research studies, hormones, behavioural therapies in actual clinical terms. He's secure enough in his own expertise not to be threatened by the 'patient' not being a total dumbass, and that is so rare to find. I wasn't kidding when I told his resident student that I'd literally drive across the country to see my psych.

Too bad I have yet to find a GP that good quite yet.

[meeks32]

Lace I basically just had the same exact experience from my gp (Australia, where we apparently have one of the best health systems in the world). Unfortunately I live in a small town (800 people) and we only have one gp, with no facilities for ultrasound, and a nurse who does blood tests only on weekday mornings. Our 'good' gp left a few years ago to be replaced with one I call Dr Skeptical. Consequently i don't ever go to the doctor. my last appt was in june after a 10 week flu which became a lung infection and the idiot told me to go home and rest, until I got so desperate I went to someone else (who had a far more proactive response and didn't patronise me or treat me like an idiot).

Sometimes Dr Skeptical's sick or takes holidays and we get a replacement who is DrAwesome. Unfortunately this was not one of those times, this is how it went:

GRRRRRRRRRRR

Well Dr Skeptical was his usual dismissive self, basically I went in, he said "are you still TTC?" (Referring to June when while hocking up my left lung I mentioned we were having trouble conceiving) I said "Yes, that's why I'm here" he said "right, so i'll give you a referral to someone then" and turned around to his computer. THANKS FOR THE COMPASSION. His fave thing to do is to fob things off onto another doctor to deal with.

He then proceeded to cut down each of my questions one by one, saying little gem's like "It can be completely normal to take some time to conceive" and "there are all kinds of reasons why a luteal phase can vary" and "I've seen people take 7 years to conceive after having their first baby or babies quickly" and "you are 28 (almost 29), there is no reason to rush, relax, don't even make the appointment with the specialist for a few months, just keep trying, you have time"

GRRRRR how insensitive! Completely missing the emotional roller coaster that is TTC. Why would I want to keep this up?

I tried to point out that I conceived my sons quickly, I asked if I could have an ultrasound to check there is no ectopic given my weird period after my third chemical in a row, and to check there are no cycts or fibroids causing my spotting, and he said I don't need one. I tried to say how disheartening it is to try for so long, he said I was being silly. I tried to say how hard it was seeing I was pregnant then getting my period and loosing the baby 3 times, he said that is just the body getting rid of a pregnancy that could have been a baby with defects. BUT THIS HAS NEVER HAPPENED BEFORE! Didn't care. "Bodies change."

Everything I said he just shot down.

So he gave me a referral to a Dr IVF, whom I researched really well (I have a nursing friend that works with many midwives in our nearby large city which is 2hrs drive away, and she told me who to go to, and my previous OB's office happen to recommend him too). Dr IVF is supposedly very good and has a great and understanding nature so fx he helps. Anyway he's part of an IVF clinic, but they treat all stages of infertility and offer all kinds of treatments other than IVF so I assume this means Clomid would be obtainable from him. I suspect he'll do bloods though, being a 'professor' and all.

Anyway that appointment is on 18th Feb, around when I am due to ovulate (usually cd18-20). So my Clomid hope is dashed for this cycle, and I can't get bloods or ultrasound before then to make sure it's all ok in there, after my pregnancy ended, odd period and temps still very high.

I even tried to ask Dr Skeptical about progesterone treatment for spotting (wasn't planning to but got desperate for any kind of help to save this month's future baby) and Dr Skeptical just blew it off and said you can spot for all sorts of reasons. When I mentioned I never spotted ever before, even with ds 1 and 2, he just shrugged and said the body can change.

Then he printed some blood tests for me to take with me to the specialist... FROM JUNE 2012! I had bloods run when I was sick for 10 weeks back then and he has given these to take with me! They are all normal, but that's because I wasn't yet on LE diet. From memory I've only been on LE for 6ish months, and trying for 8 months so that would have been July or August. Which makes the blood tests invalid. Mind you I couldn't point that out since I was saying i'd been trying a year and not mentioning swaying... But regardless, old bloods are ridiculous, if the body can change which seemed to be his catch phrase, why would old bloodwork even be relevant?

Am so annoyed! But this is just typical of doctors and reinforces why I don't go (hence being sick 10 weeks before I went last time).

[LacePrincess]

Geez, meeks. I'm so sorry. Like we REALLY need this on top of the emotional hell we're already in, right?

I'm really sorry you don't even have any options. Dismiss Dr. Skeptical. I don't even care about bedside manner anymore, all I ask for these days is something better than outright incompetence. And yet even that is hard to find!

I'd so pay for health care out of pocket if it would get my family better care.

Anyways, ignore idiot doctor and make an appt with that specialist! You definitely have gone long enough. If it's feasible for you maybe you can consider travelling if you can find a good specialist, sometimes it's definitely worth the cost and logistics to find the right doctor.

[meeks32]

Yeah I'm over the gp so I just don't go, and when I have to take my kids I push him harder. If there comes a time when he gives me dangerous advice with the kids I'll take them to the city to a place I used to go, but a 4hr round trip with two young kids isn't fun.

I've made the specialist appointment though, if its just fertility stuff hopefully I won't have to go that often, fx. Or if I do I maybe can make it on daycare day. Will feel it out and see. I don't know anything about the costs or what insurance pays but usually with Aus private health only covers what happens in hospital and our public health can cover some things partially but I strongly doubt fertility services are one of them. For example when I went to my ob in pregnancy most visits were subsidised, but only by 50%. I don't know, I know IVF costs $10,000 a pop but obviously were not there yet. Hoping the lesser things like clomid aren't too pricey.

How are you feeling today?

I was more upset he didn't help me keep future baby than check out past one. Mind you, I did think I'd at least get a blood test to check hcg had returned to normal. I feel like now getting pregnant isn't as hard as staying pregnant. And I feel like I'm dooming one I might conceive this cycle to an early end, because I KNOW I won't keep it with a short luteal and my experience of the past 3 losses.

But I am very happy I have a plan for next month.

[LacePrincess]

Meeks, I'm very happy you have a plan! If I may ask, when have you been losing these pregnancies to suspect LPD? I assume you're starting to bleed before 12dpo everytime?

I'm glad that at least mine didn't start till after so I'm not sweating my LP at least.

I'm feeling pretty cruddy today, I seem to get waves of painful emotions that make me cry off and on all day, glad I don't have to be in public. I am planning to bury my FRER's and the gift envelope I had presented DH with in the garden in the spring and get a nice garden stone to put on top. I didn't think I'd need that for such an early loss but now planning it is bringing me a lot of comfort.

I'm also going to look for a collectible ornament as I collect ornaments. For the lost baby, but also the loss of this particular dream and innocence.

[meeks32]

Meeks, I'm very happy you have a plan! If I may ask, when have you been losing these pregnancies to suspect LPD? I assume you're starting to bleed before 12dpo everytime?

.

Ok so prior to taking soy I had af arrive on 10dpo religiously.

The month before i tried soy i had a pos pregnancy test on 9dpo then got af on 10.

After that I went on soy to extend my luteal, and had a pos test at 10dpo, then got af at 12dpo (so it extended but only just). Same happened last month but my temp didn't drop before af so I got confused. And my tests stayed pos til a few days after af.

[meeks32]

Meeks, I'm very happy you have a plan! If I may ask, when have you been losing these pregnancies to suspect LPD? I assume you're starting to bleed before 12dpo everytime?

I'm glad that at least mine didn't start till after so I'm not sweating my LP at least.

I'm feeling pretty cruddy today, I seem to get waves of painful emotions that make me cry off and on all day, glad I don't have to be in public. I am planning to bury my FRER's and the gift envelope I had presented DH with in the garden in the spring and get a nice garden stone to put on top. I didn't think I'd need that for such an early loss but now planning it is bringing me a lot of comfort.

I'm also going to look for a collectible ornament as I collect ornaments. For the lost baby, but also the loss of this particular dream and innocence.

Lace is this your first child? Or your first loss? It hurts different for everyone, I'm not feeling the need for closure but maybe that's because I've got 2 boys that are healthy and happy already. I do feel comforted by that.

I think whatever gives you closure is what you need to do. Xxx big hugs

[harleyquinn]

I"m sorry you are hurting Lace Princess. I think what it is, when we get that BFP something really biological happens and you immediately switch gears into "incubator mode"...like your mind is just SET on growing this baby and you settle into incubator mode very quickly. Then things get fouled up for one reason or another, and its very difficult to switch gears when you aren't ready. You will switch gears but an important part of that is being able to look forward. As I think you know, I've had 8 losses and sometimes I am moaning around afterwards but immediately get cheered up thinking ovulation is just around the corner. It is harder to recover when you don't think there is hope...so allow yourself to plan for next cycle and it all somehow works out.

I guess I recover quickly from the early losses because I want a baby SO BAD, I will keep plodding along until I get one that sticks and I can't keep plodding if my feet are stuck in mud. I'm not saying you are...but I get tempted to hide in a depression and give up (like I was in October after losing 12 week baby) but I want a baby SO BAD that I will keep striving to make it work even though alot of it just hurts and is discouraging. I want that baby. (I sound like a pedophile thats going to like, steal a baby LOL, I am not, I want my OWN baby) ;) I've had some m/c where I was not ready to try again right away, and taking that little break is sometimes good to re-group. I almost think swaying makes these losses harder because we do put pressure on getting everything right for the "sway", and the thought of going through all that again can be daunting. I thnk thats why I don't do diet and all the timing stuff because I lose the baby anyway, so whats the point? I need to be as strong as possible and there is no way I can put myself through unnecessary stress.

Take care of yourself xx

[LacePrincess]

Lace is this your first child? Or your first loss? It hurts different for everyone, I'm not feeling the need for closure but maybe that's because I've got 2 boys that are healthy and happy already. I do feel comforted by that.

I think whatever gives you closure is what you need to do. Xxx big hugs

LOL meeks, goodness no this isn't my first baby. As per my siggy, I have quite the brood already! ;) 3 boys, aged 8, 6, and 3.

But I've been very blessed to have absolutely trouble free pregnancies so far. No complications, no threatened m/c's, no losses. We never conceived easily but once that bean stuck, it stuck. I had BFP's early too, at 8-9dpo, and never did I have so much as a chemical. This is my first known loss, ever. I always knew I was lucky to have had problem free pregnancies so far and healthy kids, but I guess it didn't really hit home how lucky and blessed I've been until now.

Oh and for sure my kids are helping right now. Especially the 3yo - his snuggly kisses and hugs are the only thing that has made me really feel better the past few days.


Harley, that's a really great analogy. I LOVE that - it makes so much sense, and really explains why it feels like DH just doesn't 'get' it sometimes. To him, oh well we try again and moping won't change anything.

I admire you SO MUCH. I don't know how you stay strong after your losses, I really really really hope you get a sticky one very soon. I can't even imagine having hope after going through so much, and I certainly can't blame you for wanting to hide for awhile. At this point I just want another baby, and I've pretty much given up swaying, I really don't care what gender the baby is.

[black&gold]

I'm so sorry to hear this Lace! I know all too well about the lame Dr. situation here! Both my bad experiences have been during labor! First baby the nurses didn't believe me that I was in full blown labor because I was induced and it's 'impossible' for the cervadil to have any effect after 2hrs - even though I was having hard contractions ever 10 secs for 2 hrs. (she told me "oh you're still smiling so you aren't in labor" OR maybe I actually have a really high pain tolerance and even if I was about to DIE I'd still smile at you because that's how I am! Idiot!) Well sure my OB finally comes in to randomly check on me and freaked because something was seriously wrong as my body shouldn't be doing this! Of course after 4-5hrs of labor from a 0cm induction, I had my boy in my arms.

Second baby the Dr. didn't believe I was "in labor" again! (different doc) and went to sleep. Well the nurses rang him once I started pushing and he wouldn't answer - later found out because he was sleeping and ignored his page because he didn't believe it - and the freakin nurse made me 'hold' my baby in while he was CROWNING for 5 mins! - I never knew what it would feel like to have your pelvis driven over by a truck until those moments. I started going into shock, and basically almost passed out from the agony when the dr. ran in an my DS2 popped out. He had a black eye, head dent and messed up ear all from being stuck for so long. I was SOOOOO mad. My husband almost lost it on the guy!

Needless to say, if I ever get lucky enough to have enough baby I refuse to take any of this crap and am demanding my actual OB deliver my baby as she is wonderful! I'm sick of the idiot Dr. and nurses not believing me because I don't follow the 'textbook' way!

So frustrating for you.. I hope your new Dr. treats you way better!! xo

[LacePrincess]

Wow MsBlakely. I am SO SORRY you had to go through all that. That's horrific. Your experiences are a huge reason why I switched to midwife care last pregnancy, and why I will never look back if I have a choice.

I've heard of women having their babies held in so the damned doc can get there to 'catch' the baby. The only reason? So the OB gets paid for the delivery! No other reason. Women can deliver just fine ON THEIR OWN. But it just wouldn't do if the doc didn't get paid at the end of the day, would it?

And I thought I had it bad with my OB with my first two kids pressuring me to pop the kid out within X amount of time or else they'd c-section me. While on my back with an epidural of course. UGH.

I'm so glad your baby turned out healthy though, MsBlakely. I've heard horror stories about the baby ending up with cystic fibrosis and other problems from being shoved back in like that. That is medical malpractice pure and simple.

[harleyquinn]

Lace...I had my Drs appt today...GET THIS....was told "you are just TOO OLD" and if this one doesn't work out, its time to move on. You know maybe Dr is right but still...TOO OLD??? Can't they jazz it up with some medical lingo? Blame it on FSH or progesterone or something besides my AGE? She made me feel like I was a 40 year old woman "trying" to be young in a mini skirt with glitter nail polish wtih justin beiber on my iPod because I want another baby. Too old...bite my a$$!!!

Okay..rant over.

[Rosie85]

Sorry about your appointment, that is so dumb! Also very sorry to hear about the miscarriage :-(

I dislike most doctors, they think they know it all and don't have time to "waste". I was told at my first scan that I couldn't know my due date because women don't know their bodies well enough....excuse me?? They were all, oh ultrasounds don't lie! Pretty sure implantation pain and a positive test 24 hrs later doesn't lie either!

[LacePrincess]

Harley - JAW DROP here. Literally! Omg. :hugs:

If I may, how old are you? And is this the GP or the infertility specialist today (sorry I should probably know, lol, but I've lost track)?

Gosh you really are in a black hole zone for decent docs. :( I'm so sorry. You're clearly ovulating still from your charts.....have they run FSH tests? Check your ovarian reserves, hormone levels, etc?

Geez I'm so pissed on your behalf!!


Rosie, I had to laugh. I cannot stand docs that dismiss us for knowing anything about our own bodies. I've ranted about the stupid pregnancy wheel before. It's always irked me because I've always O'ed late, around CD19-22. So by the stupid wheel they've always dated me a week ahead. And then they all freak out at the u/s when the baby looks small for age. Well duh, morons, that's because the baby is a week 'younger' than your stupid wheel said. Yk, the wheel I TOLD YOU WAS WRONG.

And yet, do they ever listen? Nooooooooooo.

[black&gold]

Wow MsBlakely. I am SO SORRY you had to go through all that. That's horrific. Your experiences are a huge reason why I switched to midwife care last pregnancy, and why I will never look back if I have a choice.

I've heard of women having their babies held in so the damned doc can get there to 'catch' the baby. The only reason? So the OB gets paid for the delivery! No other reason. Women can deliver just fine ON THEIR OWN. But it just wouldn't do if the doc didn't get paid at the end of the day, would it?

And I thought I had it bad with my OB with my first two kids pressuring me to pop the kid out within X amount of time or else they'd c-section me. While on my back with an epidural of course. UGH.

I'm so glad your baby turned out healthy though, MsBlakely. I've heard horror stories about the baby ending up with cystic fibrosis and other problems from being shoved back in like that. That is medical malpractice pure and simple.

Oh yah, with DS2 I'd had an epidural for maybe 30mins and the dr. said that if my contractions didn't speed up in 30mins he'd give me pitocin - which I never want/would refuse unless absolutely needed. I'd been at the hospital in total for maybe 1 hr. and my water was literally broken 10 mins before the epidural. You can clearly last HOURS with broken waters.. so why the rush to get me on pitocin. I was sitting there praying that the contractions would speed up and they finally did.. but then we had the dumb head issue. I don't even make a peep when I've delivered either babies.. but let me tell you I was screaming in pain from my pelvis seperating - I had to buy 2 size bigger jeans AFTER delivering because I couldn't fit into my maternity clothes my hips spread so much! Seriously, some Dr. are such idiots about getting paid for the deliveries etc. I'm so glad my actual OB is a gem.. but of course where we are you get the OB who's on call.. you might get lucky and get your own but it's only a 10% chance! (unless they are inducing you in which they do it on their day)

It's so frustrating. Maybe once you let things simmer you'll decide it's not even worth your energy and time to write them a letter. So glad you were able to switch and be rid of them!!!

[harleyquinn]

Thanks for caring Lace P...but this was the infertility doctor. She makes a squinty face when she looks at my chart and at me (in an effort of sympathy) and I got the big speech today of "you have to know when to quit" type thing...which is legit...I get that. Yes I have had all the blood work and she says at my age, I don't have the adequate hormones to sustain a pregnancy!!! Sh!t!!! She didn't want to do hcg bloodwork today, still told me to hold off on progersterone until next week if AF hasn't come because I think she believes the pg will fail. So..whatever.

The other issue I have is the blood clotting scenario...and I see a DIFFERENT doctor for that! But so far just baby aspirin is what I take for that.

And I"m 40 but still...I believe it can happen. Stupid ovaries....crank out some pregesterone already.

[LacePrincess]

It IS frustrating isn't it?

I'll still write the letter though. Not for myself (honestly, I'm switching docs and I don't care about getting anything out of it), but I do think if I can submit my experience to the proper overseeing authorities then hopefully someone else won't get the same treatment. My best friend suggested I submit the letter to the College of Physicians, which I will. Who knows if it'll get anywhere, and I won't bother chasing it or anything, but hopefully someone will get the message that this behaviour is not okay and not at all decent health care.

Oh Harley, :hugs:. I'm sorry. I'd really hoped the infertility doc would help. I dunno, I think it's just hard to find decent practitioners. And I think docs just aren't sympathetic if you already have a few kids, big families just aren't the norm anymore. Maybe you could consider trying a naturopath doctor and go the holistic way? I dunno, worth considering.

And hey, don't give up hope yet! Until menopause hits, you always, always have a chance. :)

[harleyquinn]

Thank you :hugs: I feel like we have dumped on you all these stories but I think we all understand a bit how it feels to get the short end at the dr's office and how disappointing the whole m/c is when it previously used to be so easy.

(hugs) Hope tomorrow is brighter for you :flowerz: I haven't learned much in life besides "carry on"...and surprisingly, no matter what happens we kinda come out in the wash in the end. Its that darn spin cycle that gets a little rough.

Hope your appointment at the new place works out for you.

[meeks32]

LOL meeks, goodness no this isn't my first baby. As per my siggy, I have quite the brood already! ;) 3 boys, aged 8, 6, and 3.

But I've been very blessed to have absolutely trouble free pregnancies so far. No complications, no threatened m/c's, no losses. We never conceived easily but once that bean stuck, it stuck. I had BFP's early too, at 8-9dpo, and never did I have so much as a chemical. This is my first known loss, ever. I always knew I was lucky to have had problem free pregnancies so far and healthy kids, but I guess it didn't really hit home how lucky and blessed I've been until now.

Oh and for sure my kids are helping right now. Especially the 3yo - his snuggly kisses and hugs are the only thing that has made me really feel better the past few days.


Harley, that's a really great analogy. I LOVE that - it makes so much sense, and really explains why it feels like DH just doesn't 'get' it sometimes. To him, oh well we try again and moping won't change anything.

I admire you SO MUCH. I don't know how you stay strong after your losses, I really really really hope you get a sticky one very soon. I can't even imagine having hope after going through so much, and I certainly can't blame you for wanting to hide for awhile. At this point I just want another baby, and I've pretty much given up swaying, I really don't care what gender the baby is.

Sorry hon I wrote that a bit fast and didn't think how it would sound. Not trying at all to discredit your reasons to be upset. I'm so sorry if it sounded like that. I usually view the forum from my phone so I can't see signatures.

Harley had a great analogy and kind of said everything I feel and meant to say. I totally have a biological reaction as well as an emotional one, when I see those two lines my world shifts. I immediately make plans and hopes and calculate due dates, and start eating differently etc etc. In some ways our husbands or male doctors can never understand or be completely compassionate because they've never physically been pregnant, or had to go through all this. And getting AF is like your body's own shocking reminder of what you lost or didn't get. Like a slap in the face after all those warm fuzzy feelings and hopes and dreams.

The first chemical I had was shocking to me. I didn't take it well at all. The second I was like 'ok, damn I have to sway again, wonder if there is something wrong' and googled like mad until I saw my luteal phase issue. Third time was later than the others, and I had more hopes. I think I thought the soy extending my LP was the magic solution and when I saw the + pg test I was like 'yep this is a keeper'. I never had issues getting pregnant or keeping a baby before but then I wasn't charting or tracking anything at all, so who knows I could have had chemicals and not known because we conceived on the pill with ds1 (oops) and first ovulation off the pill with ds2 (I went off it, had a period, then conceived a few weeks later).

I completely get what you were saying about the doctors and their damn wheel of conception! I had very long and irregular cycles with ds1, I knew this because despite conceiving him on the pill, I went on the pill to regulate my cycles. Prior to the pill they were 34+ days. So I give them my first day of my last period, and my hcg comes back super low, like 134 and I should have been 7 weeks pg. Anyway they freak out and send me for a scan. No heartbeat. They tell me i've miscarried, then get out the massive dildo scanner (i'm 25, so i'm SHOCKED when the 'pen size' internal ultrasound comes out like some robotic arm with a crank shaft) and after what felt like doing washing machine movements for AGES with a doctor brought in from outside, they finally find the baby and there's a heartbeat and its all fine, they give me a date, which basically means the baby is 4 weeks old not 7. Except at 4 weeks, there's no heartbeat you FREAKS. I argue about my dates, cycle length, the fact I would have conceived the baby AFTER my bloods were done if it were 4 weeks, etc etc. No change. well the whole pregnancy I tracked over in size, didn't I? Wonder why... funnily enough, by around 2-3 weeks. YEP women don't know their bodies at all. Sigh.

Someone made the comment on Midwifery practice and how much better it is. I would say there are people that are good at their jobs, and people that are bad at them, and that rule is regardless of who is a doctor and who is a midwife. I wanted so much to believe that midwifery practice was the solution to bad doctors, or too much intervention in birthing, and with ds1 I chose to go that way rather than through the usual hospital and gp shared care. Unfortunately my midwife was very young and inexperienced, and didn't have kids of her own. My back-up midwife was the same. I had a 48hr labour with him, she came to my house and told me 4hrs in that yes I was in 'active labour', I stayed home as long as I could, but waters broke at 25hrs, went to hospital at 30hrs, hoping for a water birth, had to beg to come to hospital at that stage. The midwife checked me, decided there was marconnium in my waters, strapped a belly belt to me to monitor baby and that was the end of my water birth. Nobody offered me gas, because I wasn't screaming. I internalise, I smile, exactly as someone else said, I could be dying and i'd hold a conversation without my voice breaking, and would smile and say thank you. After a few hrs they decided I needed oxytocin. The second it went in I had one contraction and demanded an epidural. I was done, this is around 34hrs in, and AFTER I vomited from the pain a number of times (still didn't cry or scream or make a sound). Finally after being told I couldn't have one for anothe 7 hrs (WTF??) I got one, and it was faulty. only worked for 2hrs then I felt the pain again. Long story short, I pushed with the midwife for 1.5hrs before I finally saw a doctor, who came in, checked me, said I wasn't 10cm like the midwife thought, I was 9.5, and had swollen too much to keep pushing. The doctor found I had blood in my urine, and a temp. This was 48hrs in. Nobody checked before that. Of course I was rushed to surgery, baby was fine but my dr told me MY body was shutting down. I asked if I could keep pushing (delusional, yes, but by then I couldn't believe that after all that pain, I was ending up in surgery regardless). Long long story short, they didn't believe my epidural wasn't working, topped it up, tested me, I said ouch, topped it up again, ouch, again, now it is numb in the middle but not out the sides, they say yep that's fine, in you go. Start cutting, and "MOTHER FUCKER AWWWWW STOP STOP" I am screaming in pain feeling like lava is being poured into my stomach. The IDIOTS didn't listen and I trusted them. Now they tell me they have started cutting and they can't knock me out. At first they even tried to tell me I didn't feel the pain it was a phantom pain, then the anaesthetist looks at my heart monitor which is going 10 times faster than it should, and starts SCREAMING at the OB to "get that fucking baby out right now, I need to knock her out", before leaning in to me and saying "don't worry, this is an emergency caserian, we can get the baby out in 3 minutes" that's all I heard through my screams, but it took them 25mins to get him out because he was so stuck in the birth canal. That was pain unlike anything i've ever felt or will ever feel again. The second my son was born they knocked me out and I was in surgery for 4hrs (it usually takes 45 mins to close) and lost 2L of blood. My hospital record is completely falsified and says I had a 16hr labour, and an 'uneventful' caesarian. My private OB for ds2 pointed out, after saying it was the 2nd worst labour he'd ever heard, that its obviously falsified, because an uneventful caesarian never includes a general anaesthetic. So they dug their own grave there. I wanted to pursue it, to write a letter, to do something but didn't know how. I had post natal after initially doing really well, and just never got the guts to do it. I feel like its been too long now and wouldn't achieve anything anyway, other than making me feel horrible.

I have had some amazing doctors though, amongst the horrid ones. I had pleurisy a few times when I was 14-15, doctors back then blamed a cold for one time and a cracked rib after a snowboarding accident the next time, then I went to the doctor when DS1 had a cold at 12 months old, and while I was there for ds1 I told him I thought I had pleurisy again. I told him i'd had it before and was in a lot of pain. He didn't even examine me with his stethoscope (which is how you 'hear' pleurisy) and laughed and said if I had it i'd feel like I was dying in pain. I told him yep, that's what i'm saying, its REALLY painful to breathe. He just sent me home laughing.

The good doctor comes in next, because that night I had to get my mum to come over and take me to emergency, while DH stayed with ds1 because the pain was so bad. The emergency doctor examines me (properly this time) asks a bunch of questions about my previous episodes, frowns a lot then finally says "it's just not that common for a 26 year old to have pleurisy, especially not 3 times, i'd like you to have an xray, just to make sure there is no scar tissue irritating your lungs". He puts me on serious pain killers and I have the xray the next day. What he didn't tell me then, which he told me much later, was that the last young person he saw with pleurisy had tumours all over his body. GREAT bedside manner, didn't worry me but was proactive. I got a call 1hr after that scan, and had to go back to the Dr again, who then told me I had a 10cm tumour in my lungs. Long story short the tumour turned out to be wrapped around my heart and invading my left lung. It was benign, but very serious and wrapped around my aorta. I had to have heart surgery to get it out and it burst as they tried to remove it. I almost died, but more notably, my gp was astounded I didn't die earlier. In childbirth (48hr labour), in the shocker caesarian under general anaesthetic when I was flat on my back in the worst possible position for the tumour I had. That one doctor found what 3 had missed. One good doctor is worth their weight in gold. He totally restored my faith in medicine in one fell swoop.

My ob for ds2 was the other savour for medicine. He is seriously the ONLY reason i'm even considering a third. I had a dream caserian with him, after being told it wasn't safe for me to have a natural birth after ds1. I cried. But he made it so ok.

Have to run, dh is bugging me, but that's my good dr story too...

hugs to all of you with bad experiences. xxx

[LacePrincess]

Thank you :hugs: I feel like we have dumped on you all these stories but I think we all understand a bit how it feels to get the short end at the dr's office and how disappointing the whole m/c is when it previously used to be so easy.

(hugs) Hope tomorrow is brighter for you :flowerz: I haven't learned much in life besides "carry on"...and surprisingly, no matter what happens we kinda come out in the wash in the end. Its that darn spin cycle that gets a little rough.

Hope your appointment at the new place works out for you.

Harley, no please don't apologize! I really appreciate that everyone has been able to share their stories. It's too bad that it's so common but it's been nice to know I'm not alone. :)

I'll be fine. I just hate how purposeless I feel now. But it'll get better. Unfortunately this loss has really been challenging in terms of managing my OCD, which I was doing well at, but OCD is all about trying to control uncertainty so as you may imagine, lol, a loss like this is all about incredible horrid uncertainty. It's ok, I see my psychiatrist next week, we'll certainly have a lot to talk about!

I dreamt I was pregnant last night. :( Sigh. It was very very depressing to wake up after that. But maybe it's a positive omen for the near future? I sure hope so!

meeks, wow, you wrote an essay! LOL! Thank you for taking the time. I really want to read and respond to everything you said, so let me get back to your post when I have time to do more than scan through. :) But gosh don't apologize, you didn't sound like you were trivializing my emotions or anything, no worries.

[LacePrincess]

meeks ....

Wow. Just WOW. I need a stand up and applaud smiley, you are such a survivor, lady. Those are some truly horrific experiences - I am so, so, so very very sorry you had to go through that. Absolute nightmare. It's definitely malpractice, I'm just so relieved you and your baby came through okay. No one ever seems to give a crap until someone's seriously injured due to malpractice or dead, do they?

You're very right about there being good docs and bad docs, and good and bad midwives. I had a very very experienced midwife with my last birth and she was brilliant, which is maybe why I have such a positive light on them atm. But she moved practices and is too far away now which sucks. :( So I'm not sure what to do as I'm very very particular. With my mental health issues that always seem to flare in pregnancy I'm picky with my practitioners. When you're in birth, you're so so vulnerable, and I need to be able to trust my providers. I've also learned to check and double check and check again. I have awful OCD and I have REALLY AWFUL OCD around anything germy. I can barely stand it to be in a private room. With DS1 we requested and was approved for a private but then they somehow screwed up the paperwork. So I ended up in a ward, which was an absolute horror nightmare for me. I kept having panic attacks over panic attacks, and changing hospital gowns constantly because I was sweating right through them, and the nurses just yelled at me for creating so much laundry. I had a very very bad case of PPD right after that birth, gee I wonder why?

I too am not a screamer. I barely made it to the hospital with DS3 because I didn't realize I was in freaking transition until I threw up, lol. That one was almost a birth-by-the-side-of-the-highway story.

Yk, I'm glad we all got to share these stories. Yes they're horrid but I also think we all need to share and support each other, and know that it's NOT okay to be treated this way. It's so hard being your own advocate when the medical system likes to make you feel like you're so lucky to have any care at all. I make no apologies these days for grilling my care providers and being very clear about what I expect. I'm still not very good at confrontation, but it's important to stand up for yourself.

[meeks32]

meeks ....

Wow. Just WOW. I need a stand up and applaud smiley, you are such a survivor, lady. Those are some truly horrific experiences - I am so, so, so very very sorry you had to go through that. Absolute nightmare. It's definitely malpractice, I'm just so relieved you and your baby came through okay. No one ever seems to give a crap until someone's seriously injured due to malpractice or dead, do they?

You're very right about there being good docs and bad docs, and good and bad midwives. I had a very very experienced midwife with my last birth and she was brilliant, which is maybe why I have such a positive light on them atm. But she moved practices and is too far away now which sucks. :( So I'm not sure what to do as I'm very very particular. With my mental health issues that always seem to flare in pregnancy I'm picky with my practitioners. When you're in birth, you're so so vulnerable, and I need to be able to trust my providers. I've also learned to check and double check and check again. I have awful OCD and I have REALLY AWFUL OCD around anything germy. I can barely stand it to be in a private room. With DS1 we requested and was approved for a private but then they somehow screwed up the paperwork. So I ended up in a ward, which was an absolute horror nightmare for me. I kept having panic attacks over panic attacks, and changing hospital gowns constantly because I was sweating right through them, and the nurses just yelled at me for creating so much laundry. I had a very very bad case of PPD right after that birth, gee I wonder why?

I too am not a screamer. I barely made it to the hospital with DS3 because I didn't realize I was in freaking transition until I threw up, lol. That one was almost a birth-by-the-side-of-the-highway story.

Yk, I'm glad we all got to share these stories. Yes they're horrid but I also think we all need to share and support each other, and know that it's NOT okay to be treated this way. It's so hard being your own advocate when the medical system likes to make you feel like you're so lucky to have any care at all. I make no apologies these days for grilling my care providers and being very clear about what I expect. I'm still not very good at confrontation, but it's important to stand up for yourself.

Exactly! I've had to learn not to blindly trust a medical opinion, to question and that I have a right to, although medical treatment is a gift we privileged get in the first world countries, that doesn't mean we should bow down and be grateful just to see a dr. We pay for the services and are entitled to a second opinion.

I do understand with OCD, swaying alone makes that difficult. You may need extra help to manage that aspect because swaying can be quite particular and may push all the wrong buttons for you, when TTC in general is already going to work you up. You may find you can only manage parts of swaying, perhaps diet or timing or something else is causing you to flare up, maybe you can only do parts. The most important thing is controlling your OCD before it controls you, not swaying. You are amazing for fighting every day with OCD, I have a few close friends with it and its a constant balancing act, much like diet. Too far one way too far the other and it all goes downhill. I have some tendencies too but am fortunate to be able to self moderate because I'm very mild on the spectrum.

With your midwives where you are is there a safe option for home birth? I ask because maybe you would be more comfortable in your own environment where you can control most of the parameters. I know it's not always safe and don't think it's a good idea unless you are close enough to a hospital in case of emergency, but it's a thought.

I think you should interview some from different midwifery centres before choosing and MENTION your OCD don't pretend it's ok when it's not. It's as you said a mental health issue and diagnosed OCD is recognised as something that needs to be dealt with differently and with compassion, it's not just a patient being particular.

Ultimately nothing beats an experienced dr, midwife or nurse and I find some private practices harbour different patient care, compassion and approach than others. My ob for ds2 was FANTASTIC as were all his midwives and I'd have a nervous breakdown if he moved before I have #3. I plan to request the same midwife he gave me last time too (he assigns just one midwife to patients and if he's in available you always speak to/see the same person). I loved that.

I was always such a public health advocate but after ds1 I felt I had to have more control and accountability so for me private was worth the money. I still believe its different for everyone and never discourage anyone from their plan for birth and labour care because everyone has different concerns and history and its totally personal.

Oh hey maybe you could call your old midwife and ask who she recommends in your area???

[LacePrincess]

No worries, meeks. :) I too figured out a few months back that the sway diet was really messing with my head - I've pretty much entirely thrown out the whole sway, including diet. I really don't care about gender, I didn't before the m/c and I especially don't now!

I have an excellent psychiatrist that I've been seeing since I was first diagnosed 12 years ago. So he knows me very, very well, lol. He also knows we are TTC and will be managing my care. I'm seeing him next week and it should be an interesting conversation for sure.

When I called the midwife I did mention my OCD issues, yes, so I did emphasize that this is a big issue for me and that OCD always worsens during pregnancy/postpartum. Unfortunately around here there aren't heaps of choices and it's hard to find midwives with availability, so you're pretty lucky to get one at all. Having said that I've read good reviews of the one near me, so fx they will be a good fit when I get a bfp!

Unfortunately I'm just not comfortable at all with homebirth, but the hospital that I birthed in last time was ok (for hospitals). I just make sure that I double check that the private room, etc., are all confirmed reserved waaaay beforehand and I'm good. I kinda like the option of pain meds, lol, even though last time I was far too late to get any.

[harleyquinn]

Lace, what are you doing to sway? I agree about diet for you. (hi my name is harleyquinn and I cannot diet like a normal person ;) )

is there a ttc/being pg after loss thread on here we can chat on?

[LacePrincess]

Lace, what are you doing to sway? I agree about diet for you. (hi my name is harleyquinn and I cannot diet like a normal person ;) )

is there a ttc/being pg after loss thread on here we can chat on?

Hahahaha, swaying? At this point? Uhm kinda nothing. ;)

Well, I had a m/c and plan on trying again immediately, does that count? LOL

Seriously though, I've completely abandonned the diet. It was just wreaking havoc on my mental state and just.....no, been there to the dark side and by the grace of God pulled it back in Dec before it was too late. Too close for comfort, really, so never again.

I am taking Vitex (well not right now after the m/c) and that sways girl, but the V was really more to regulate my O. I also take B6 which sways boy unfortunately but it's the only thing that gets my LP anywhere near normal.

Otherwise I workout almost everyday but I do that anyways. So my sway is kinda, well, nothing right now, lol, except for the unfortunate m/c and being older and somewhat fitter/lighter/lower bodyfat than I was with all my kids. But really and truly? I don't care about gender. I'd much rather have a bunch more loss-free pregnancies and ALL boys than to have any more losses even if I was guaranteed a girl at the end.

I don't think we have a Trying after Loss board, no. There's an infertility board but that doesn't quite apply. I very much agree that it would be nice to have one, as I think a lot of people after a loss feel like they don't belong anywhere..... It's too painful to go back to the original TTC board, we aren't really 'infertile' either. Let me PM the site owner and see what she says?

[harleyquinn]

Just a thought but I am really just hoping my anxiety will just settle down here over the next few weeks :nails:

Seriously if I had to start all over again....never mind...can't even go there ;) I guess other people are talking about finding out gender/announcing pg but I am more along the lines of finding out if the baby will live. Not helping I have no symptoms whatsoever (besides PNAD...pre-noravirus anxiety disorder) ;)

I think your exercise will sway for you, if I remember the exercise stats (out of 10 people) was 100%. When will start the vitex? And as far as diet, I guess I kinda believe as long as you are not eating loads and a rack of ribs every night, its ok and neutral to ttc any gender at this point, kwim?

I was looking at the age of your boys...you obviously slacked off and did not squeak in the 4th boy in 2005 like I did LOL (mine are 2004, 2005, 2007, 2009)

[The Anchor]

Just a thought but I am really just hoping my anxiety will just settle down here over the next few weeks :nails:

Seriously if I had to start all over again....never mind...can't even go there ;) I guess other people are talking about finding out gender/announcing pg but I am more along the lines of finding out if the baby will live. Not helping I have no symptoms whatsoever (besides PNAD...pre-noravirus anxiety disorder) ;)


I know I've said it before, but the only thing my "sway" will involve this time around is the healthiest, stickiest egg known to woman. I'm doing a "let's get pregnant fast and make it stick" sway. After my m/c in October, all I want is a baby in my arms now. I'm on cycle 4 since my m/c...and I would give anything to be pg. (Sorry Lace, didn't mean to hijack!)

[LacePrincess]

Hey, no apologies Anchor! It's always lovely to read posts from you. :)

Harley, lol, yes I did slack didn't I? Well darn, I'll probably never hit an even dozen now. ;) Really I was so traumatized by that ridiculously precipitous birth that I wasn't ready for a looooooooooong time......

One odd blessing from this loss, though, is that I feel I have been well and truly cured of any GD. The thought of 'mom of 4 boys' makes me so thrilled.

And who could blame you for being ridiculously anxious after all you've gone through. :( I dearly pray I don't have to lose any more, I'm not sure I'd have the fortitude to keep going like you have. But I know, sometimes it's not an option NOT to go on so you just kind of do.

This thread has become quite a fun discussion! :D

[meeks32]

Ladies it's helped me so much reading all your posts about loosening up on swaying, I'm at that point now where something's got to give and after my third loss I just feel like I can't keep it up with diet. I am, but it gets harder each month not easier. Mind you I'm terrified if I give it up, I'll gain heaps and really ruin everything sway wise, which I don't mind about so much as the fact that means 9 months of hard work were for nothing.

If I were to give everything up and get healthy for a sticky bean I'd do:
Healthy snacks often
Breakfast musli with nuts and greek yoghurt
Eat meat
Fish oil tablets
Preg multivitamin
B6 if those things didn't lengthen my luteal

That was what I was doing with the boys! Mind you, everything on that list helps your fertility, which sways boy! Grrr

Like many of you have said, I'm starting to care less about gender and more about a baby. Perhaps this was my path. When I finally get pg, I won't be completely obsessed with gender I'll be SO thankful to be pregnant and cherish whatever I get. 9 months ago I would have had GD.

[harleyquinn]

I take the fish oil and have added fatty fish back into my diet, as well as eat steak with blue cheese at LEAST 3x a week. I was in poor shape after the Oct m/c..iron issues, ate horrible during that pg, grief etc...SO...I eat. I"m not a breakfast person, so I don't worry about that. I think you can eat the way you want, and still manage to sway a bit if you are able.

THing is, if you get pg easy, you CAN add little things in even though other things are blue. I call this the androgenous sway. ;) Or purple sway. For this pg, I used acijel before but then for some unknown reason, I douched after DTD...which prob washed away the acijel?? LOL...I would NEVER tell anyone to do that; seems I can tell others what to do but for myself all reason flies out the window ;) But I did get pregnant! Whether it will stick or not, has nothing to do with the acijel or douche.

BUT swaying...even that^^^, takes an emotional toll on me. I ordered that tube of acijel MONTHS ago and I thought "well that was a waste of $45 for one squirt" but here I am now, nearly in tears thinking of ordering another tube because that one is completely gone. I just can't.

And the whole frequency timing thing...OMG....there is NO WAY I could do that. NO WAY. Not because it doesn't make sense but I am not going through all that. So we do boy timing and it feels RIGHT.

[LacePrincess]

Wow I had NO CLUE Acijel was so $$$$$. I can't even find it and I'm not comfortable ordering anything but POAS sticks online, so guess I didn't miss out on anything.

I did try Benedryl before BD once and it made me loopy, stupid, and drowsy as heck and never again. Blech.

I've totally gone back to my regular eating habits. Oatmeal for brekky, well rounded meals with mostly white proteins, red meat once a week or so. Not a lot of snacking but 3-4 meals a day. I was getting just plain tired and wrecking my metabolism with the LE diet, not to mention my mood disorder problems.

The other thing worth considering is that a lousy diet can run us down so much that perhaps for anyone suffering recurrent m/c, it has to be considered as a factor. Not saying at ALL that the LE diet can cause m/c, but perhaps if you're prone lack of nutrients won't help the body create a nice receptive lining. No medical nothing to back this up, just my gut feeling. I've also never done any of the frequency thing, I wouldn't call our bd'ing 'boy' frequency, we just start bd'ing daily from +OPK until confirmed temp rise. I also have DH release every 3-4 days outside my fertile window so his 'stuff' isn't too old for the egg.

My thinking is too, that if we're all getting a bit older and seem to be more at risk for losses perhaps we're squarely in girl territory anyways? I thought I've read somewhere that you're more likely to have boys in 'prime fertility' years. So maybe if we're having a hard time getting an egg to stick properly we're already swaying girl due to reduced fertility. And thus we should be just doing what we can to be fertile.

In the end, though, I really don't care. I just want to be preggo, period.

[harleyquinn]

LOL @ the acijel being expensive! ANd I agree about the benedryl but other people seem to take this with no problem! I hate antihistimines.

True about reduced fertility, but my oct m/c was a boy. None of the rules ever seem to apply to me re: the sex ratio. I think thats mostly the reason why I don't do diet. Sure it works in a statistical population but then there's me...the outlier. LOL

[LacePrincess]

Hahahah, well in that case I'm the perfect statistic?

I came across the stat that 1 in 4 first tri pregnancies end in m/c. Well there you go, I was statistically due.

Good news harley - NBP added that TTC After a Loss board!

TTC after a Loss (http://genderdreaming.com/forum/ttc-after-loss/)