Saw palmetto and vitex... Is it too late for our attempt?

[strawberryapple]

We are hoping to try for our first attempt this month (ttc girl). I really don't want to wait to much longer, for other reasons we have been putting off trying for the last couple of months. So this month I want to just go for it! I have been doing Le diet for the past 6 weeks, will be using rephresh, folic acid and also started taking asprin this month (after dropping cal/mag and cranberry).

Unfortunately, I have only just found out about Saw palmetto and vitex? I would really like to take them to maximise my chances for a little girl. So I started both at the beginning of this months AF (so have been on them for about 4 days).

My concerns are that I have left it too late to take these if I want to try and concieve this month or would it be sensible to wait till next month before we try? Also, i have been reading that they might mess up timings.

I was taking peppermint tea before Saw palmetto, which I have now stopped. But drinking this last month seems to have messed up my AF which came 4 days early this month. So I am now unsure if my ov will still be cd15, as previous months?

We are planning to do frequent release, with a 3 day cut off. But now I'm worried I can't pin point exactly when this will be. Would it still be a good girl sway to wait till I get my first +opk and then make our attempt? (hoping attempt would still be 1 or 2 days before ov).

Sorry for waffling on, really hope my concerns make sense. Would really appreciate some guidance and help.
Many thanks in advance.

[harleyquinn]

It can't hurt to take them now, may help. Vitex seems to affect some people very quickly. Your O may be messed up so be prepared for that...which *may* make a cutoff difficult.

I think waiting till the +opk is a solid plan. As far as waiting till next month, there is no gaurantee waiting will accomplish anything but thats a personal call GL xx

[strawberryapple]

Thank you so much for your reply and help.

I'm still can't decide what to do, I think we will try this month. But I really didn't want to do our first attempt so close to ovulation, but I can't see another option for us.

[harleyquinn]

I know...its nerve-wracking sometimes. You could always start this month very strict (like with antihistimines and rephresh quite close to the attempt) and if it doesn't work, start up with the Vitex/SP again next AF. The attempt close to O won't make a difference...there are tons of studies that suggest more girls are conceived close to O day. I think 0-1 had the best result? But all the studies seem to refute each other...because timing just isn't a big factor.

have you read the thread The Trouble with Timing? This may set your mind at ease.

[harleyquinn]

http://genderdreaming.com/forum/gender-swaying-general-discussion/7691-trouble-timing.html

[strawberryapple]

Thank you so much harleyquinn, I have had a good read thought the timing thread. It has really helped calm me down and I still think attempting when I get my +opk is the best plan too.

I think my biggest concern is that I would have only been on vitex and saw palmetto (and asprin) for only a week or so before our attempt. (I just don't want that to be a regret!)... Gut feeling is to wait to till next month, but then I don't want to be on the diet for too long and I am desperate to finally be pregnant again (I am not getting any younger!). I am already doing rephresh every 3 days and have just started taking Benadryl daily (have about a week before attempt).

Also, can I check I'm on the correct amounts? I am taking 400mg of vitex Agnus castus (which recommends 2 caps twice a day) and I couldn't get the Saw Palmetto standardised extract (320mg), so I am taking Saw Palmetto 450mg (again says 2 caps twice a day). Is this a problem? Should I just take 3 of these capsules instead of the recommended 4?

Hope you don't mind helping me with this decision? Thank you again for all your time and help.

[harleyquinn]

So you are taking 2 caps of 400 mg 2X a day? THis is a major math problem for me...so 1600mg? That seems a bit high to me...maybe somebody else will correct me, but I have seen 1200mg being the ceiling on Vitex with most women seeming to take 800mg.
The saw palmetto, its a shame you can't find the standardized. The non standardized pills you have to willy nilly trust the amount you are getting. The safe amount of SP is actually pretty high, but as you know 320 being recommended. I would stick to 3 on those but it prob wouldn't mean anything dire to take 4 but on the safe side, personally I would try to get the standardized or just take 3.

Good luck on your attempt xx There is nothing wrong with waiting another month either if that is what your gut tells you!

[strawberryapple]

That's great, thank you for helping me with the amounts. I will try get the standardised capsules (320mg), hopefully they come back into stock in my local shop on Friday but I will carry on just taking 3 of the other ones till then. I will also drop the amount of the vitex, I think I will just take 2 (800mg) for the next week till ov.

We have a couple more days to make the decision about our attempt, it's so exciting but I want to be sure I've done everything I can to hopefully make it a good sway!

[harleyquinn]

I tend to think lower doses of Vitex are better for ttc girl. At a low dose it raises your prolactin or some such thing, which decreases other hormones ie estrogen/test and makes your libido go down.. Higher doses lower your prolactin and there is the opposite affect so to be on the safe side, I think lower doses of Vitex are prob best but of course this is just speculation on my part :oops:

Good luck :cheer:

[strawberryapple]

That's interesting, I will have to look into it a bit more. I feel much happier knowing I am taking all the right supplements now.
Thank you for your good luck wishes :)

[Emily]

Hi strawberryapple. I have decided to delay for a month so that I will be on the diet longer than 6 weeks as results seem much better then. I'm taking vitex and trying to remember to drink peppermint tea but have only started at AF which is another reason that I want to delay.

Good luck with whatever you decide - unfortunately the stats just aren't there yet for us to know exactly what to do. I decided to wait purely so I wouldn't be plagued with if only..... Thoughts if my sway is unsuccessful.

Fingers crosse for you.

[strawberryapple]

Hi Emily, good to hear your thoughts too. I think your right, one more month can't hurt can it and then we can say we have done everything we could for our sway. I just hope we conceive quickly, I can't wait much longer the age gap is going to be quite big between my youngest and hopefully our new bump!

Sending you lots of luck for your sway!

[strawberryapple]

Sorry harleyquinn or Atomic, just one last question...

If we did decide to leave our attempt till next month. Would I continue to take the vitex and saw palmetto all month. AF - AF, instead of AF - Ov? Or would this be too much and mess my cycle up too much just before our first attempt?

Hope this makes sense.

[harleyquinn]

You know, thats a tough call...I don't think there is anything magic about staying on it a full month (lots of people do those supps AF-O only) but other people do that and feel better about their sway. If you are the type to have regrets and second guess everything (esp if you hear boy) then perhaps its best to do the more extreme version if it will make it easier for you later.

Having said that, going for it this month with other things on board (like one attempt, any jely, antihistimine etc), you are still getting a good sway in. If it was me, I would just go for it but that because dragging out swaying for months and months sounds dreadful to ME. I'd rather give it a good shot and move on. Thats just me! Go with your gut because taking vitex/sp for a full month is no magic bullet but if you feel you NEED that backing you up, then do that.

Not sure that helped at all...and yes have nerves of steel when you figure out O next month because it may be affected and that can be frustrating. I think I am the quintessential lazy swayer due to being at the ttc thing for so long so I'm prob the worst person to pass out advice about this. If you do decide to take it all month, be aware that the SP just can't be taken in pg so make sure nothing sneaks on through...its just "safer" to do it AF-O unless you are sure you are careful. If I was a younger woman and just had lots of time, I ~may~ be tempted to do Vitex continuoulsy up to attempt because why not? if you have lots of time to spare. So look at whats going on with YOU to make tht call.

Good luck!

[strawberryapple]

Thank you for such a great reply harleyquinn, it's amazing how much it helps just being able to talk it through with someone other than the hubby! I think your right, I will just take it as normal AF-O and go for it next month, then I know I've done as good a sway as possible in my mind (so no regrets if we get another lovely little boy).

We have 2 gorgeous boys already, 5 and half and 2 and half. I'm almost 37, so I don't want ttc to drag out too long to make the age gap between my little one and hopefully the new baby bump too big.

If my ov is delayed etc next month, I will stick with the plan to do x1 attempt when I get my first +opk and just go for it. Considering my age and my need to get pregnant quickly... do you think we should bd more than once to stand a better chance??

Good, my sway is sorted (I think)... I am so happy :) thank you so much for all your brilliant help and advice again!

[harleyquinn]

I think you should start out with one attempt. The only time more than one attempt is like if you are using a TON of other things that would greatly diminish chances of pg, yk? Some people get pg so easy, its ridiculous...others have to wait...and your body can change so much in just a few short years, so its almost like you don't know till you give it a shot. I'd tend to start out strong, then loosen up if you are not gettnig pg. :) Thats my opinion :)

[strawberryapple]

Great advice, thank you!! I'll do that :) my gut feel was to do 1 attempt for the first month, I think I was just over worrying, it'll be interesting to see what happens this time round... I definitely feel older.. Haha! (fingers crossed it will be speedy).

[harleyquinn]

My only question here, is if you are going to wait for next month for sure, why not take the Vitex all month long? It may give it a better shot of really getting going wtih it. Its known to be quite gentle and take a while to take affect (but some seem more sensitive to it..maybe its the dose, idk) Are you worried about ruining when you ovulate or messing with your cycle? Otherwise, just go for it this month, ykwim. (I am making this worse lol)

Both are valid but to me taking it to AF-AF-O, is different than taking it AF-O in 2 separate months. (again, making this worse lol)

[strawberryapple]

haha, no your not making it worse! That's a really good point, I think the only reason I was nervous taking the vitex right through from this AF till next months AF-O was in case it messed up with ovulation too much to successfully try next month (I don't want to suddenly go from 26 day to 40 day cycle for example). But I'm happy to do it if you think its a good idea, especially as it would help maximise the benefits of the supplement.

Would you recommend taking vitex and the saw palmetto both from AF-AF-O this month or just the vitex?? (I am now taking 800mg daily of vitex)

Thank you again :)

[Emily]

"We have 2 gorgeous boys already, 5 and half and 2 and half. I'm almost 37, so I don't want ttc to drag out too long to make the age gap between my little one and hopefully the new baby bump too big.

If my ov is delayed etc next month, I will stick with the plan to do x1 attempt when I get my first +opk and just go for it."



OMG our situations are SO similar! I am 37 and have a 2 yr old and 5 yr old:). I am taking vitex all month this month. Am doing strict LE, vitex, pepp tea, loads of diet coke, rephresh , FR 10 days and hot bath before 1 attempt. Aiming to BD at OPK + as I read that this is best as sperm take a while to be ready to fertilise the egg.

Another reason I am delaying is that if I do everything I can I think this will help possible GD - if the bean is blue it was meant to be.

Good luck with your sway

[harleyquinn]

Well if this site was about WWHQD (what would harleyquinn do) ;) I would take it all month long in prep for a future attempt.

I really honestly have no idea what Atomic would say but under WWHQD logic...its not a bad idea to take it continuously for a month beforehand.

[The Anchor]

The bigger issue is taking it while you're pregnant. Anything that can affect your hormones should be avoided during pregnancy (obviously, unless doc prescribes it). So if you aren't TTC then you can take it for the month. It has delayed O in some women, so I would stop taking it if you haven't O'd by your regularly scheduled time ;)

[strawberryapple]

Thank you harleyquinn and The Anchor for both of your replies and help, we have definitely decided to wait till next month so we will be extra careful for the rest of this month and carry on taking both the vitex and saw palmetto till ov next month... then make our attempt!

Harleyquinn, whats the best way to contact Atomic if I have any questions or thoughts I needed help with?

[The Anchor]

Just post in the gender swaying forums, she'll get to it. I don't recommend PM'ing her, she just posted that she's in over her head. She'll get to your q's, promise.

[strawberryapple]

Hi Emily, yes we are doing exactly the same sways, it's really comforting to see someone else having the same plan! The only difference is the peppermint tea and saw palmetto. It would be great to stay in touch to see how you are getting on. I am now so pleased we are also waiting till next month, then what ever happens we can relax and enjoy our pregnancies knowing we did everything we could :) hope your sway goes really well, fingers crossed!

[strawberryapple]

Thanks The Anchor :)

[Emily]

Hi Emily, yes we are doing exactly the same sways, it's really comforting to see someone else having the same plan! The only difference is the peppermint tea and saw palmetto. It would be great to stay in touch to see how you are getting on. I am now so pleased we are also waiting till next month, then what ever happens we can relax and enjoy our pregnancies knowing we did everything we could :) hope your sway goes really well, fingers crossed!

I have sent you a friend request so that we can keep in touch:)

[atomic sagebrush]

Ok I have talked with the OP a bit via PM and wanted to catch everyone up on what my POV was. PLEASE always keep in mind that we have no hard scientific evidence to back up any of this, I'm just going off what makes sense TO ME after having observed the results of people taking the herbs in various patterns the last couple of years..

the V and the SP, taken continuously, are acting almost as a BCP for some people. As in, it's preventing ovulation from occuring, not just delaying it, when taken non-stop. This ~could~ yield an egg that is 2 months old or more (example, you ovulate in January, get AF the first of Feb, then start V and SP for 6 straight weeks and do not O again until the end of March or even longer. There is also the stress factor to consider - I think it's very very stressful to not know when you are going to ovulate and the herbs are SO unpredictable to begin with, and taking them 6 weeks straight only adds fuel to the fire.

As a result, my gut instinct is that it is best in terms of safety and ease of use, not to take the herbs 6 weeks straight. It very well may be a better sway to do so, however. So if you think you'll still O while taking the herbs (many people do) OR are going to be taking Clomid which will possibly help you to O more quickly with a better quality egg, then the 6 weeks may be a good idea for you. If you are older or have had repeat losses, you may not want to take the risk.

As I always say, my crystal ball is in the shop and so I can't predict how any herbs will affect any one individual. Lots of people have taken them nonstop and ovulated while doing so, and lots of others have had perfectly healthy pregnancies even with eggs that are a couple of months old. At the end of it all it has to come down to what feels right TO YOU.

[atomic sagebrush]

Another possible option would be to start the herbs AFTER ovulation in the month before you are set to try. So wait for Feb's ovulation, then immediately after, start the herbs and take till CD 14 or pos OPK of the following month, whichever comes first..

I personally feel that has much more risk for screwing up your cycle than either of the other options, but it is a possibility.

[atomic sagebrush]

Just post in the gender swaying forums, she'll get to it. I don't recommend PM'ing her, she just posted that she's in over her head. She'll get to your q's, promise.

Yes, I really really really prefer that people (aside from custom sway plan members) don't PM me for questions that are not like, TOTAL emergencies. I'm sorry, I don't mean to chastise anyone and this is not anything personal or directed towards any one person, but this question was not urgent, people gave very thorough and well-thought out responses, and yet I did end up answering it via PM. Then I STILL have to answer on the forum as well for all the other people who may read the thread.

It's getting to the point now where I may even have to stop PM's all together like Tamara did. It's not fair to me, my kids, my husband, and all the other people who wait patiently for me to answer. I have a tendency to answer PM's even when I prob. shouldn't and it is also hard for me to keep track of what I've answered and what I haven't if people are both posting and sending PMs.

If you guys do ever feel like I missed a post (which happens) then either give it a bump or send me a PM with the LINK to the thread in it so I can answer in the forum itself.

[fish2012]

atomic you're a super star thank you for all your help, your busy family mustn't suffer because of your good nature x

[atomic sagebrush]

I wish I could do everything, I really do, but I just can't. :(

[strawberryapple]

Ok I have talked with the OP a bit via PM and wanted to catch everyone up on what my POV was. PLEASE always keep in mind that we have no hard scientific evidence to back up any of this, I'm just going off what makes sense TO ME after having observed the results of people taking the herbs in various patterns the last couple of years..

the V and the SP, taken continuously, are acting almost as a BCP for some people. As in, it's preventing ovulation from occuring, not just delaying it, when taken non-stop. This ~could~ yield an egg that is 2 months old or more (example, you ovulate in January, get AF the first of Feb, then start V and SP for 6 straight weeks and do not O again until the end of March or even longer. There is also the stress factor to consider - I think it's very very stressful to not know when you are going to ovulate and the herbs are SO unpredictable to begin with, and taking them 6 weeks straight only adds fuel to the fire.

As a result, my gut instinct is that it is best in terms of safety and ease of use, not to take the herbs 6 weeks straight. It very well may be a better sway to do so, however. So if you think you'll still O while taking the herbs (many people do) OR are going to be taking Clomid which will possibly help you to O more quickly with a better quality egg, then the 6 weeks may be a good idea for you. If you are older or have had repeat losses, you may not want to take the risk.

As I always say, my crystal ball is in the shop and so I can't predict how any herbs will affect any one individual. Lots of people have taken them nonstop and ovulated while doing so, and lots of others have had perfectly healthy pregnancies even with eggs that are a couple of months old. At the end of it all it has to come down to what feels right TO YOU.

Such an informative reply, thank you atomic for all your time, help and patients... we would all really struggle without you.

[fish2012]

Strawberry apple I totally recommend the personalised plan I'm really obsessive and find it was good as reduced stress and I didn't have to think about it anymore ;-s xx

[strawberryapple]

that's great to hear, I will definitely look into it! thanks fish2012 :)

[atomic sagebrush]

Thank you all very much. :heart: