Genesis or Dogus?

[Hilnik]

I read many posts about Genesis in Cyprus, but very few about Dogus Clinic in north Cyprus (that is cheaper). Can you tell me on what it depends? Which one is better?

[nuthinbutpink]

North Cyprus doesn't have a great reputation on the forums because we have never seen a pregnancy from there.

Genesis is preferred for the International gals but their pregnancy rates have been very poor for the women that have cycled there from GenderDreaming. The vast majority have been unsuccessful. Dr Savvas seems to be well-liked but if you go there you should plan for multiple attempts.

[lisvna]

I Agree with NBP.

A few girls here cycled with Dogus or North Cyprus IVF and after that they went to Genesis. They preferred Genesis even when they didn't get pregnant (and a few in the past did get pregnant and also a few one hit wonders with genesis).

I got pregnant on my second try with Genesis and I will go back in June for a girl. Although the pregnancy rates not so high as with dr Potter I still have faith in dr Savvas and his team. Yes you should plan multiple cycles (fish 5 probe technique doesn't give higher succes rates like Natera does) but one cycle is defenetly cheaper with Savvas and more close to home then dr Potter.

If you have a lot of money and you don't mind traveling and willing to do a fet (if you choose for natera) then is my advice go to dr potter. You have a big chance to be a one hit wonder.

If you don't have a lot of money, you can do multiple cycles,don't want to travel far and want a fresh transfer and spermsort then my advice is go to dr Savvas. It's possible to be a OHW I have seen it a few times.

[Hilnik]

Thanks for your kind reply. I am Italian and here gender selection is almost a taboo (when they know the meaning of the word). I am 43 now and have two beautiful sons. My man has a son from his previous marriage and we both were expecting a baby (another boy) in 2011, but then I had a miscarriage at the beginning of the fourth month of pregnancy. After the abortion we have found out that the baby had Down syndrome, we were devastated. We desperately want a baby girl after so many boys, but time is not on our side (he's 44). I've chosen Cyprus because is closer and maybe cheaper, but who knows! I must be a OHW because this is my last chance to make my dream come true. I don't know Dr Potter, where does he operate? I'd be' grateful of any advice or suggest.

[nuthinbutpink]

At 43, I would consider using donor eggs because the pregnancy rate with IVF over 40 is so poor. You decrease your odds from the beginning when you eliminate half of the embryos because of gender and just like your natural pregnancy that ended with a Down's baby, most of our eggs over 40 are abnormal. Dr Savvas has a DE program and there are women on here that have used it and been successful.

I hope he has counseled you about using your own eggs at 43 and what realistic odds are of it working.

I'm not trying to be negative but I don't want anyone wasting their money without proper understanding of what they are up against.

[Hilnik]

Dr Savvas told me that the rates of success at my age with my egg are very low, but I'd like to have MY girl and miracles happen sometimes.

[nuthinbutpink]

Dr Savvas told me that the rates of success at my age with my egg are very low, but I'd like to have MY girl and miracles happen sometimes.

Atleast the 5-probe will prevent another Downs miscarriage so you don't have to worry about that again. Good luck with your cycle. I'm glad he has been upfront with you.

[lisvna]

Keep in mind that with your age and your own eggs an OHW is almost impossible so you have to know you need at least a few cycles to get pregnant IF its possible with your own eggs. You can try one cycle with your own eggs and then decide later if you want to use your own eggs again or DE or to quit.

[Dream blue]

We went to genesis, 3 cycles with our own eggs and it just proved impossible, a lot of money, tears and upset. So our 4th cycle we choosed ed and now how a bfp with frosties in store. If you can only afford once cycle I would really consider ed option. Good luck x

[ever hopeful]

I agree with what everyone says about using your own eggs, but it can happen so stay positive. I got pg against all the odds, with my own eggs, OHW at Genesis at 44, but sadly had a miscarriage at 9.5 weeks. Pretty sure it was a chromosome problem.Now going to have one last shot, but this time doing a tandem cycle using both my own/DE eggs (as would still dearly love MY own daughter), but ultimately I have 3 natual sons and if DE is the only way I will get her, am happy with that now (something that I certainly wouldn't have considered when I did this in November).Really good luck and will keep everything crossed for you.x

[Hilnik]

Dear ever Hopeful,

thanks for your kind reply full of euncouragement, but I don't understand why PGD didn't detect the chromosomic problem of of your miscarriage at 9.5 weeks.

[Hilnik]

I want to thank you all for your replies: for the ones that warn me (and discourage me) and for the ones that cheer me up. Even before starting anything, it's already an emotional rollercoaster for me. I've never had fertility problems, but suddenly in the deep of my heart I understand that I am "old", my eggs are abnormal, useless. There will never be a little Ilaria. I'll never see my eyes in hers.
I'd love with all myself a daughter of a DE, but this is something I have to metabolize before starting my journey.
Thanks again

[lisvna]

They test "only" x,y, 13,18 and 21 but there are more chromosomes in the embryo so if the others not good it could cause a miscarriage. In the Us they test with Natera 24 chromosomes so all chromosomes.

[ever hopeful]

Hi Hilnik, the reason being, FISH only tests 5 chromosomes, not all of them (but 21 which is Downs is included). I'd actually believed I'd beaten the odds completely with my PDG pregnancy and there wouldn't be a prob once I was actually pregnant (that's the hard bit!), as had conceived all of my sons quickly and naturally and sailed through pregnancies as an 'old' Mother - the first at 38, then 41 and my youngest at 43.It's only since the MC, having talked to Drs and probably spent too much time on forums, that I've realised how lucky I was to have my healthy boys without probs. That said, I still desperately hope I will still be lucky enough for one of my eggs to work, and the important thing to remember it does only take one! Good luck in whatever you decide to do xx

[nuthinbutpink]

Dear ever Hopeful,

thanks for your kind reply full of euncouragement, but I don't understand why PGD didn't detect the chromosomic problem of of your miscarriage at 9.5 weeks.

At Genesis, you will only test for the existence of the X chromosomes, the Y chromosome and chromosomes 13, 18 and 21. The rest are not tested so of there is an issue not compatible with life of any other chromosomes, it cannot be known and may result in a miscarriage.

We are not trying to destroy a dream but many of us that have been around this for a whole know how have IVF is in your 30's and when you are over 40, the odds are against us.

That being said, I too would want to try with my own eggs. I get it. So, I hope you are able to try and succeed that way. Good luck. We would love to support you through your cycle. We have an entire community in the Member section and that is where the current cyclers post. I hope you'll join us!

[Ines]

Dear all... I feel that I have to tell my experience at Dogus because I wish no one has to pass through the terrible experience that we had to go through in august 2013.

I introduce myself, we are a Spanish couple (sorry for my English)

We were 34 when we went to this clinic, with all our hopes and happiness. We had already 2 wonderful sons.My older son was 5 years old and the small one was 2.

Both were natural pregnancies and we had no problems at all with getting pregnant... But we wanted desperately a girl... We search all over the world because in Spain choose the sex is not allowed and we found several places to do it, USA, Mexico, Ukrania, Cyprus... Finally we decided to go to Cyprus, then we started to look for a clinic, from Spain there is not so much information, appart of the one that you get through internet, the information that they want to show you: the incredible succesfull rates and you get the wrong idea that you will get pregnant at the first time... All this change when you get there and after the treatment they tell you how difficult is to get pregnant (they tell you this only after the treatment, not before, at least in Dogus) But I want to tell you my story step by step. we contact with 3 different clinics, Dogus and two more and I can tell that we finally decided to go to Dogus because they sold me their product very well, telling me the things I just wanted to hear.

The other 2 clinics told be about real succesfull rates (that is not the kind of things that you want to hear at that moment, you just want to hear that everything is going to be just perfect and that you will be happily pregnant when you come back home (It has pass one year and a half and remembering all this I´m crying...) We are a normal couple, I´m a teacher and my husband is an Engineer so we could not afford to spend so much money for the treatment, and my parents (my father is also a doctor) lend us the money (10.000€ for the treatment, the drugs and the accommodation and flights there that days)

When I sent them all our health documents (the blood tests, sperm tests, scans...) they told me they were perfect...and for sure they will obtain excellent embryos, hahaha... And then they sent me the prescription, of course after paying 200€ (actually it was quite more because I had to pay the bank taxes here and they claimed me also the taxes that they were suppose to pay in their bank.. In the end We paid both, we were anxious and we wanted everything were just perfect. My parents and my sons came with us to Cyprus so they could take care of the children and of me, of course. When we arrived the first day to the clinic we went directly to pay the 6000€ of the treatment we give the money to a big man with I do not know how much 500€ bills, set in packs, and we did not recive any receipt, anything…(we choose gender selection with DGP and Supposely Microsort) TODAY I have known that they do not have Microsort, even though they offer it in their web page, you can see it in their web. But there is only one clinic in Cyprus with Microsort (one of the other two that I contact with...) appart from USA. I was so happy... I didn´t take into account anything, I just wanted my baby girl... After all the treatment, we came back to Spain, To Madrid and at the time they told me I did my blood test which was of course negative.
I can send anyone who wants the emails they sent me before I paid the first 200€, and also the others after paying (nothing to do) and also the emails I sent to other clinics and their answers, if you need them. Nowadays, I owe to my parents 4000€ yet, I could not get pregnant again, though we have tried naturally (maybe the drugs I had to take) And I feel so empty... I have talk to my family, my parents and husband after all that and all of them appart of me felt like if we had been swindled I have no evidences apart my memories and some photographs in the clinic and the emails to prove that all this happened.

I am sure that my story will not be here for so long because they will erase it and make it disappear.
And they will not allow me to write anymore, because they only think on the business. The reason to write this all now (I wrote in other pages when we came back but all that information disappeared) is because I received an email from one of the other clinics to check if everything went fine at Dogus, and when I read that all my memories came to me again. I want to copy here what they wrote to me and made me felt so sad and angry at the same time.

This is what I wrote:
“I have just read an email that you sent me last february (sorry for answering so late, but I do not check this email too much because I usually use a different one)

Things at Dogus weren´t fine at all!!!

We felt totally swindled... Maybe it is normal, but they were just interested on getting the money...

After all the process, we got 3 embryos (2 boys and 1 girl) as we wanted the girl, we had only one chance and when we arrived to Spain, and I did my blood test it was negative, after a week my period came and I wanted to die...

I had spent a lot of money that my parents had lent me (today I owe them 4000€ yet) and all for nothing!!!

I wrote to them in the clinic and they only told me that "these things happens..."

Well, in Spain clinics are different, they make you more tests to discover why it was not succesfull... We have even clinics, (private clinics, as "easyfiv" that ask you for the very minimum taxes in difficult economical situations to help people to reach their dreams to have a baby ) But here you can not choose the sex, so...

After that I wrote in all the blogs and webs, to explain whtat happend to us and advising against this clinic, I should have tryed with you or in the ........ Hospital (I contact a doctor from there, very honest and sincere about the succeed rates, but the real ones, not invented as in Dogus.

And now, from then, I´m triying to get pregnant (2 years ago) and I can not, I do not know why...

So I ´m quite hopeless.

Thank you very very much for your interest.”

And this is what they wrote to me: Dear Ines,

...................... is no longer with us, but I do get her emails.

I am so sorry to hear about your experience at Dogus. I usually get a lot of requests from patients who are "price shopping" and they often tell me Dogus sounds more attractive with its cheaper price and all the "great" reviews, but regardless of how much I try to explain, people have to experience it for themselves, unfortunately. This is a clinic that pretends to offer "MicroSort", which is a technology that is only available at our clinic, so you can imagine how surprised I was to see that they advertise MicroSort on their website, claiming that they offer it for free of charge!!! No wonder no one gets pregnant there, if everything they do is as bogus as that, they probably don't even transfer anything...

Anyway, I am very sorry to hear that you had to go through something like that. If there is anything that I can assist you with, please let me know and I will be more than happy to help.

Kindest regards,

• This is my story, if you need to ask me anything please feel free to do it , I know how hard is to go through all this and more if you think you have waste your money for nothing. Now I would love to do it again but I have no money for that and I owe to my parents a lot...
Sorry for so long

[Boom]

I went to Dogus end of August, did not get pregnant and am still waiting for the follow up information and 200€ that I was overcharged.

[Boom]

The staff were perfectly pleasant though

[lisvna]

Ines I'm so sorry you went to Dogus and didn't got pregnant. I know more people who went there and came back empty handed.

But I want to ease your mind a bit. As you can see in my signature I did many attempts too.

There is in no way a guarantee you get pregnant even with 1 "healthy" xx as you transfered. The reason why I wrote this " " is because healthy at a clinic who test with fish and only 5 chromosomes isn't nessaseraly really healthy. An embryo has 24 chromosomes. So those 5 could be healthy but from the other chromosomes we know nothing! Fish 5 probe testing doesn't guarentee a preganancy.

Most modern clinic these days offers full chromosome testing (all 24 chromosomes) they call it aCGH testing. They check all 24 chromosomes and then the chance on a pregnancy is higher because they only transfer the really healthy ones.

I understand your sadness and Dogus isn't the best clinic and I would never recommend that one.

I can recommend The Czech clinic I went to and many others from this forum. They offer aCGH testing and soooo much cheaper then Genesis clinic in south Cuprus (who is not a bad clinic) or Dr Potter in the US for example who is a great doctor). But if you really want to cycle again in czech it's "only" around 4000 euros for an aCGH cycle.

Btw your post will not dissapear here because we have nothing to do with Dogus or any other clinic!

[Boom]

I agree with Lis completely, that's why I've decided to go for aCGH testing this time