Is XX=Female and XY=Male Alone for Real???????

[xxxx]

Hello ladies, The article below is trying to explain that XX and XY chromosome alone can not determine gender. It goes far to illustrate that other hormones can alter these chromosome somewhere in the 10th week of pregnancy to trigger blue or pink baby. Those hormone I believe is high or low testosterone.
I would love everyone to read through this and lets brainstorm together.

Does having a Y chromosome make someone a man? | Intersex Society of North America (http://www.isna.org/faq/y_chromosome)
How Is Gender Determined? | eHow (http://www.ehow.com/how-does_4572288...etermined.html)

This is very difficult to believe but seems a very interesting subject.
Your opinion on this will make a huge difference. Lets do this ladies, WHAT DO YOU THINK?

[atomic sagebrush]

Yes, this is true but people who are intersex is a very small percentage of overall people and it's considered a birth defect - not something any of us should try to incorporate into a sway. Kids who are intersex are often sterile and have all sorts of medical problems. It's not a good thing. You can't turn an XX into an XY or vice versa, gender is set at birth and then for a few individuals something goes awry that does not allow them to fully turn into the gender that they were "supposed" to be.

It goes far beyond just having a mother who is higher and lower in testosterone. There are genetic causes why a baby does or does not make testosterone and when it happens in the "wrong" gender, that's BAD for development. The baby makes or doesn't make its own testosterone for genetic reasons and it's not something we can control (nor should we try)

[Charlee]

I have a family member who is like this, and lemme tell ya, it's NOT something you want to do (or try to do) to your unborn baby. "She", and I use that term loosely, has a whole host of problems... Her ovaries and uterus never fully matured so she cannot have children. She does not identify with the female gender really, but she "looks" female mostly on the outside... except that she grows facial hair and has a deep voice. She has, and always will have, a very hard road :(

There are some things in nature we as human beings just SHOULD NOT mess with, and this is one of them!!! If gender is a huge concern for you, you should read some of atomic's swaying essays, she has done an excellent job :)

(Sorry if I have come off as rude but I have a very strong opinion about this subject)

[xxxx]

Yes, this is true but people who are intersex is a very small percentage of overall people and it's considered a birth defect - not something any of us should try to incorporate into a sway. Kids who are intersex are often sterile and have all sorts of medical problems. It's not a good thing. You can't turn an XX into an XY or vice versa, gender is set at birth and then for a few individuals something goes awry that does not allow them to fully turn into the gender that they were "supposed" to be.

It goes far beyond just having a mother who is higher and lower in testosterone. There are genetic causes why a baby does or does not make testosterone and when it happens in the "wrong" gender, that's BAD for development. The baby makes or doesn't make its own testosterone for genetic reasons and it's not something we can control (nor should we try)

As, I agree as the article from ehow also noted that they could have fertility issues which is very bad. IMO then people needs to be careful with what they do around the 10th week of pregnancy.

[xxxx]

I have a family member who is like this, and lemme tell ya, it's NOT something you want to do (or try to do) to your unborn baby. "She", and I use that term loosely, has a whole host of problems... Her ovaries and uterus never fully matured so she cannot have children. She does not identify with the female gender really, but she "looks" female mostly on the outside... except that she grows facial hair and has a deep voice. She has, and always will have, a very hard road :(

There are some things in nature we as human beings just SHOULD NOT mess with, and this is one of them!!! If gender is a huge concern for you, you should read some of atomic's swaying essays, she has done an excellent job :)

(Sorry if I have come off as rude but I have a very strong opinion about this subject)

Hello Charlee, its ok to come off the way you did, am not pregnant, I came up with this so we could brainstorm and not attack each other. I only wanted us all to see that certain things we may do at some point during pregnancy especially the 10th week may alter gender which may bring forth unhealthy baby. The article from ehow also mentioned the strong possibility of infertility in individuals with cross chromosomes.
You have a point.

[Charlee]

Absolutely! Well, coming from a person who has suffered first, second and third trimester losses, you really have to be careful during the whole pregnancy, but the first trimester especially :)

I hope I didn't offend you, I just wanted to be very clear about the real life implications of experimenting with altering the DNA replication of an unborn fetus. This family member of mine's mother did not even do this.... she took a medication that interrupted the replication (or so the doctors think)....

I think the short term pay off seems so inviting (re getting your desired gender)that it seems like something that might not be so bad. BUT, the long term implications are SO much worse than dealing with GD for period of time.... know what I mean?

[Charlee]

I think this *may* be part of the reason why some people say they were "born gay"... As in they have always felt they were in the wrong body, were never attracted to members of the opposite sex and so on.... Because the signals from their brain and hormones were crossed at some point in development. Now, there is absolutely NOTHING wrong with being gay or lesbian, but I'm not sure if it's a road that most of us mothers would willingly chose for our children. The family member I spoke of is a lesbian, and she has faced a great deal of adversity in her life... it breaks my heart :(

[xxxx]

Absolutely! Well, coming from a person who has suffered first, second and third trimester losses, you really have to be careful during the whole pregnancy, but the first trimester especially :)

I hope I didn't offend you, I just wanted to be very clear about the real life implications of experimenting with altering the DNA replication of an unborn fetus. This family member of mine's mother did not even do this.... she took a medication that interrupted the replication (or so the doctors think)....

I think the short term pay off seems so inviting (re getting your desired gender)that it seems like something that might not be so bad. BUT, the long term implications are SO much worse than dealing with GD for period of time.... know what I mean?

I agree with you completely.

[Charlee]

Hello Charlee, its ok to come off the way you did, am not pregnant, I came up with this so we could brainstorm and not attack each other. I only wanted us all to see that certain things we may do at some point during pregnancy especially the 10th week may alter gender which may bring forth unhealthy baby. The article from ehow also mentioned the strong possibility of infertility in individuals with cross chromosomes.
You have a point.

I was not in any way trying to be troll! haha

[Charlee]

On this note though, I have often thought about why some babies develop obvious gender clues early on, while others stay ambiguous for longer... maybe higher testosterone in the mother can make girl babies have a larger nub for a longer period of time? My DD had a very large nub and the u/s tech was convinced she was a boy, but the chromosome test showed clearly she was a girl.... So maybe an estrogen dominant mother would have a DS that takes longer to develop a pronounced nub too? Food for thought!

Thanks for sharing :)

[xxxx]

Looks like around 11-14wks, male and female nub are almost the same, except for the likely angle.

[atomic sagebrush]

As, I agree as the article from ehow also noted that they could have fertility issues which is very bad. IMO then people needs to be careful with what they do around the 10th week of pregnancy.

Well, we all should be careful at this stage of development anyway because the 10-14 week mark is very critical for embryonic development BUT please everyone understand that this is NOT something that happens easily or that we can alter with diet. This is a case of something going SERIOUSLY wrong with development that causes the baby him or herself to make too much or too little testosterone. Usually it is because they have XXY or XYY. It is not that the mother had too much testosterone.

[nuthinbutpink]

Your chromosomes are set from conception. Just because an angle is or isn't there between 11-14 weeks doesn't mean that the fetus is still deciding on what gender it is, if it will have Down Syndrome or some other issue.

I thinks genes can definitely be expressed during development but that isn't at the chromosome level- that is set from day one.

[atomic sagebrush]

On this note though, I have often thought about why some babies develop obvious gender clues early on, while others stay ambiguous for longer... maybe higher testosterone in the mother can make girl babies have a larger nub for a longer period of time? My DD had a very large nub and the u/s tech was convinced she was a boy, but the chromosome test showed clearly she was a girl.... So maybe an estrogen dominant mother would have a DS that takes longer to develop a pronounced nub too? Food for thought!

Thanks for sharing :)

I do believe that maternal hormone levels ~may~ have some effect in the way that a baby's genes manifest themselves both physically and in terms of personality, but these are TINY things in comparison to intersex. Being intersex is a HUGE problem that affects every part of an infant's development.

Example - there is a study that shows that sons of women with PCOS may be more likely to have insulin resistance Metabolic profile in sons of women w... [J Clin Endocrinol Metab. 2008] - PubMed - NCBI (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18230657) But that doesn't make them turn into girls, KWIM??

[nuthinbutpink]

Hello ladies, The article below is trying to explain that XX and XY chromosome alone can not determine gender. It goes far to illustrate that other hormones can alter these chromosome somewhere in the 10th week of pregnancy to trigger blue or pink baby. Those hormone I believe is high or low testosterone.
I would love everyone to read through this and lets brainstorm together.

Does having a Y chromosome make someone a man? | Intersex Society of North America (http://www.isna.org/faq/y_chromosome)
How Is Gender Determined? | eHow (http://www.ehow.com/how-does_4572288...etermined.html)

This is very difficult to believe but seems a very interesting subject.
Your opinion on this will make a huge difference. Lets do this ladies, WHAT DO YOU THINK?

That's Not what the article is saying. The article is written from the perspective of an Intersex individual. These are deviations from typical. This is not something we would want to create or promote for a child. I think you just misunderstood the backstory of the organization. You are either XX or XY from day one. Anything that goes wrong from there can certainly change things but it's not going to create a healthy male or healthy female if that happens.

[xxxx]

Your chromosomes are set from conception. Just because an angle is or isn't there between 11-14 weeks doesn't mean that the fetus is still deciding on what gender it is, if it will have Down Syndrome or some other issue.

I thinks genes can definitely be expressed during development but that isn't at the chromosome level- that is set from day one.

The gender is already ascertained except we cannot tell the obvious difference that much around this period(11-14wks )via an US. just the angle of the nub is our best guess. That I meant to say.

[xxxx]

That's Not what the article is saying. The article is written from the perspective of an Intersex individual. These are deviations from typical. This is not something we would want to create or promote for a child. I think you just misunderstood the backstory of the organization. You are either XX or XY from day one. Anything that goes wrong from there can certainly change things but it's not going to create a healthy male or healthy female if that happens.

The article says exactly what I mentioned, it also goes further to say altered hormones will mess things up and send the gender towards a different direction thereby creating an unhealthy baby.

[xxxx]

That's Not what the article is saying. The article is written from the perspective of an Intersex individual. These are deviations from typical. This is not something we would want to create or promote for a child. I think you just misunderstood the backstory of the organization. You are either XX or XY from day one. Anything that goes wrong from there can certainly change things but it's not going to create a healthy male or healthy female if that happens.

XX and XY chromosomes are set from conception, altered hormones deviate the set objective.

[xxxx]

I started this thread so we could discuss but it looks more like a fight to me now. Thanks ladies for your contribution.

[xxxx]

Thank you very much.

[nuthinbutpink]

The article says exactly what I mentioned, it also goes further to say altered hormones will mess things up and send the gender towards a different direction thereby creating an unhealthy baby.

Correct so why would we want to discuss this? To avoid it happening I assume. It is a very interesting subject but doesn't help the masses achieve a healthy baby of their desired gender. That's all we are trying to say.

We do love new research and new theories for natural gender selection. A healthy child is still the priority though.

[atomic sagebrush]

I started this thread so we could discuss but it looks more like a fight to me now. Thanks ladies for your contribution.

We're just not quite sure where you're coming from here. If the idea is to somehow harness this to be used as a swaying tactic, meaning regardless of whether or not a couple has conceived XX or XY, that then we could do something so the child then "turns" into the opposite gender - that's not possible anyway and being intersex is a serious medical condition that comes with a host of health problems. I think most want healthy children of our desired gender (at least, I did.)

Now if, on the other hand, you have concerns that swaying will somehow cause unhealthy or intersex children to be conceived, then I understand your concern but I do not feel it is valid, because it is the presence or absence or poor function of the Y chromosome that causes a baby to make or not make testosterone. The BABY themselves make the testosterone that turns them into a boy or girl. It does not have to do with any foods we ate or anything like that. It's the baby's chromosomes either functioning normally or not functioning normally that decides gender.

[xxxx]

Would never start a thread with the intention to harm anyone, I was surprised when I found this and wanted us to discuss the issue, sort of to create an awareness that this can happen due to certain carelessness such as over the counter self medication during pregnancy.
I do not fully have enough information on this and as such wanted other opinion of the likely occurrence of sex change during first trimester, so we can avoid certain things such as over the counter drugs.

I have the most healthy DD ever and would be very sad with an unhealthy DS. Am not pregnant, though trying to sway but would be excited with another DD anyways as DH wants to go high tech should we have another DD which is very cool for me.

Healthy baby is the best thing to happen to anyone and I would wish everyone the same. Am so sorry for starting this thread in the first place as I have been misunderstand.
If this thread has confused anyone, please accept my apologies.
Tx

[atomic sagebrush]

I'm terribly sorry for the misunderstanding. I think we have a little bit of a language issue going on here and we sometimes see some crazy stuff come onto the swaying boards! I apologize for the confusion.

Just to clarify, this condition CAN'T happen from carelessness or self-medication during pregancy (with the possible exception of hypospadias which I really do not feel qualifies as an "intersex" condition). This is a genetic disorder - it's coming totally from the baby's genes, a "mistake" with the egg or the sperm and has nothing to do with what the mother is doing or not doing.

The e-how pages are not good and reliable sources of information. They are just written by people like you or I who get paid a small amount of money per article they write - they are not experts. In this case I believe the author has posted misleading information.