gender abortions? Please leave me out of it.

[atomic sagebrush]

This is not directed at any person or persons in particular but just a general statement. I am not trying to start a flame-fest or argument, I just have to say this.

I do not support abortions for gender selection. I totally understand gender disappointment and I know that some of the wonderful ladies on this site are in situations in their culture or situation where they feel such a great pressure for a baby of a particular gender, that they don't feel like they have any option, but it is not what I am about. I'm not trying to judge or be harsh in any way because I know that everyone has a different moral compass and what you believe may not be the same as what I believe, but I just morally can't help you with that and live with myself.

I occasionally get the vibe that for a small minority of people, they are obsessed with knowing gender very early for the reason of pregnancy termination of an opposite, and it is just not something that I am at all comfy with. The methods of telling gender early on in pregnancy, be it by darkness of pregnancy test, beta, Ramzi, side of ovulation, Sneak Peek blood tests, Urobiologics, the moon phase you ovulated in, the "Chinese Calendar" which is completely made up, or even nub shots, none of them are 100% reliable for telling gender and most of them don't even work at all. Repeat, yes, even nub shots - YOU CANNOT TELL GENDER FROM ULTRASOUNDS IN THE 10th and 11th WEEK regardless of who claims otherwise on other sites. So matters of personal ethics aside you may very well end up aborting a child of your desired gender by using unreliable methods to predict gender, or using reliable methods too soon.

ABOVE ALL ELSE YOU CANNOT TELL YOUR BABY'S GENDER FROM "FEELINGS" HOWEVER STRONG THEY MAY BE. There are so many of us who had strong feelings about their baby's gender who were WRONG. Please, please, please I beg you do not terminate a pregnancy on the basis of your feelings, intuition, psychic ability and so on.

:nyd:You can't tell your baby's gender from darkness of pregnancy tests. knowing your baby gender from your pregnancy test !!!! (http://genderdreaming.com/forum/gender-swaying-general-discussion/30461-knowing-your-baby-gender-your-pregnancy-test.html) (my reply is on the second page)

:nyd:You can't tell your baby's gender from betas/HCG levels. knowing your baby gender from your pregnancy test !!!! (http://genderdreaming.com/forum/gender-swaying-general-discussion/30461-knowing-your-baby-gender-your-pregnancy-test.html) (my reply is on the second page.)

:nyd:You can't tell your baby's gender from where you felt O pains. You can't even tell what side you ovulated from where you felt O pains ovulation pain and spotting - in depth (http://genderdreaming.com/forum/gender-swaying-general-discussion/1678-ovulation-pain-spotting-depth.html). and Side of ovulation and gender (http://genderdreaming.com/forum/gender-swaying-general-discussion/8234-side-ovulation-gender.html)

:nyd: Ramzi - has been unreliable for many and I have seen several people send Dr. Ramzi himself $10 to guess on their ultrasound and he guessed WRONG. Nub shots are all well and good but nubs before the end of the 12th week are totally unreliable. Additionally, unless a tech has been well trained, it is totally possible to get inaccurate info and bad shots and sometimes techs are just wrong. Thorz scan 12w4d measuring 13w2d (http://genderdreaming.com/forum/ultrasound-gender-prediction/27763-thorz-scan-12w4d-measuring-13w2d.html) and Nub theory - official study! (http://www.genderdreaming.com/forum/ultrasound-gender-prediction/30675-nub-theory-official-study.html)

:nyd:You can't tell your baby's gender from an ultrasound that tells you what side you ovulated from. We have seen plenty of opposites with this. Side of ovulation and gender (http://genderdreaming.com/forum/gender-swaying-general-discussion/8234-side-ovulation-gender.html)

:nyd:You can't tell your baby's gender from where you think you felt implantation. That is IMPOSSIBLE and if the uterus was that sensitive, pregnancy and childbirth would be excruciating.

:nyd: The blood tests, gender predictor tests, cabbage tests, Chinese Calendar, OWT, symptoms have proven themselves again and again to be unreliable. Even the DNA blood test has produced opposite results and none of the others are reliable at all.

:nyd: You shouldn't panic because your sway didn't go the way you wanted it to...people get their desired gender every day without doing anything to sway, and even "perfect" sways produce opposites. Please don't despair over a sway that didn't go according to plan, you still have a great chance at your desired gender. I have fielded many questions from people wanting to take the morning after pill or drink parsley tea when their sway didn't work out and the majority did get their DG so please don't go this route. There have been people who DID go this route and baby stayed stuck through the grace of God, and they got their DG.

:hug2: I love you guys and sorry for the awkward subject matter, I just don't want anyone to make any decisions based out of desperation, that anyone would then have to live with for the rest of their lives.

[mommymachine]

I love that you wrote this. Thank you atomic!

[Teacup]

Happy to see this on here! Just wants to say that if you think you may do this just don't have anymore babies?
There is NEVER a guarantee!
Too many people loose babies everyday or cant conceive even one child and its too heartbreaking!

[Wanting-a-girl]

I think that if you are going to abort a baby for what's between its legs then you should not be reproducing at all! It's ashame that one would not love their child because of its gender! Your child does not choose what it is!

[atomic sagebrush]

I think if we can't understand why people would feel tempted, then we're lucky and should count our blessings. Some people really have major, horrible GD or live in circumstances where they have so much pressure for a child of a particular gender, that it goes beyond anything that we can understand. :heart:

This is a safe place for everyone even with really really bad GD and I want everyone to feel safe here, but I just really am uncomfortable when I feel like people are going to use information (especially when it's wrong information) to make decisions that will alter the course of their entire lives and is against what I personally can accept from a moral standpoint. I've just been getting that vibe a lot lately.

When my husband and I first met, we literally got pg the very first time we had sex and seriously talked about ending the pregnancy and thankfully we didn't go through with it or I wouldn't have my oldest son. I would have always regretted that and I just don't want anyone to make a mistake in the throes of GD.

[Dana-Alicia]

I think GD to this extent is not just GD, it's a mental disorder, an anxiety disorder. And I mean this in the nicest way possible, but if you feel like aborting a child because of his gender (or for any non-medical reason really) please seek professional help. There are other options!

[Adia]

I think if we can't understand why people would feel tempted, then we're lucky and should count our blessings. Some people really have major, horrible GD or live in circumstances where they have so much pressure for a child of a particular gender, that it goes beyond anything that we can understand.

Having lived in two foreign countries, other than the USA, it really is hard to imagine how cultural influences can almost trump ethics....but they can.

The American version of ethics and morality is founded on Puritan ideals. Other countries, particularly Asian countries, have a very different cultural base. So while we think abortion for gender is horrid, someone from another culture may not and may have the support of their society in their thinking.

I agree completely with Atomic, asking another person for their input or opinion on the decision is too far.

In the end people need to make their own decisions based on the direction of their conscience.

[sbowman]

When my husband and I first met, we literally got pg the very first time we had sex and seriously talked about ending the pregnancy and thankfully we didn't go through with it or I wouldn't have my oldest son. I would have always regretted that and I just don't want anyone to make a mistake in the throes of GD.

This is similar to our story. It was our honeymoon and we had never had sex before, and we were very very broke. I even scheduled the appointment and everything, but in the end I did not go. I cannot imagine a world without my DS. He is the most wonderful child and brings me so much joy. I did not experience gd with him but we were very reluctant to have a baby. I know now he was meant to be in our lives. I can understand if someone feels extremely upset about your baby's gender, because I've been there too. But you never know what kind of person that little baby will become, or how much they will bring to your life. <3

[AKMommy]

I can't imagine life without my little boys. Both were a surprise in their own way (DS1 was conceived on double birth control), DS2 was an attempted sway (not a very good one, but at the time we didn't know that). I knew from the moment I was pregnant DS1 was a boy. Knew it down to my bones. Hubby thought girl (then boyfriend/fiance), we didn't find out his gender on u/s. DS2, I really thought was a girl (or I convinced myself he was, not sure which).

I had pretty bad GD when we did find out. But he is such a quirky kid, that he always has me laughing at something he says or does (and all those around him). He also gives the best hugs that I have ever gotten. His hugs wrap you with love, he can make the worst day into the best. That is the greatest gift anyone could ever ask for, and to think that I have him around me every day is such a blessing.

I believe that we are given what is best for us not matter if we know it or not. I do know that some cultures put EXTREME pressure on a woman to bear a child of a certain sex. This was just brought up in a recent documentary called "Girl Rising," which all I can say is that it is a very strong film (I went through just about every emotion that I have). :) I know totally off topic.

I am glad that you are trying to make it a safe haven for everyone though.

[gurly]

This is such a heavy topic. wow. I'm very pro-choice even though I don't think I could go through with an abortion myself. Luckily, I've never had to make that difficult decision.

I very much agree with one of the posts above, for a person to consider this because of GD they must be in a very dark place and feel very desperate.

[porcelina]

I don't think anyone, anywhere, anytime ever takes abortion lightly. It is a life altering decision. But, it is also a personal decision. I can't get behind anyone choosing to abort for gender, BUT I will support until the day I die a woman's right to make that decision for herself. No one will ever understand a given woman's situation as well as herself and we have to trust people to make the right decisions.

[atomic sagebrush]

Regardless of what my or your personal convictions are, people sometimes hit me up for info about stuff that I"m just not comfy with. Every question I answer is time away from my own children and I don't super love taking that time away begging, pleading, and convincing people about the stuff I already went over in my original post.

This isn't meant to be a debate, everyone has their own belief system and moral compass. I just need people to have accurate information about how early you can tell gender etc, and then leave me out of whatever decision they make because, hey, I answer a lot of q's and I've just decided I'm not going to field these ones any more. :)

[nuthinbutpink]

This site does not support this topic. I have no interest in discussing a woman's right to choose. That's not what the original post was about and we don't support this choice here.

Signed,

Management.

[atomic sagebrush]

I really, really hate every time I have to bump this thread up.

Please do not make me complicit in this. Do not pummel me with questions for pregnancies that are not going to be kept. I am not here to judge but I really, really do not appreciate taking time away from my family and the other people who I could be helping to answer hours of questions for people who apparently aren't even sure they want to be pregnant. It takes a toll on me psychically and emotionally even just to read about it, and it isn't cool. Don't want to be pregnant, don't get pregnant. Not sure? Do what you want to do but don't get me involved.

[atomic sagebrush]

bump

[atomic sagebrush]

Your periodic reminder that swaying is not a guarantee. We get about 66% success rates reliably, and those who sway a little more strictly (and blue swayers this includes your husband quitting smoking) may expect more like 70%. If you cannot handle those chances, please do not sway, and investigate high tech methods instead. It may be expensive but you will have that guarantee.

(please note, the impossibly high success rates promised on other swaying sites are simply not true and they manipulate their data to eliminate most of their opposites)

Above all else, please do not buy a custom sway plan and give me money to plan your sway if this is on the table. It doesn't feel very nice to make me spend a lot of time answering questions when the end game is to make me a part of something I don't want to be involved with. This is in no way meant to be judgemental, I understand GD is complicated and there are some of you in positions where this makes the most sense for your family. It is simply that there are too many other things I would rather do with my time instead of answering questions for pregnancies that are not going to be carried to term.

Thank you for your understanding.

[atomic sagebrush]

bump

[atomic sagebrush]

Once again I am forced to bump this post. I don't want any part of this and above all else I DO NOT WANT TO ACCEPT MONEY FOR IT. Please do not put me in the position of having accepted money for something that I really am not on board with. It is much easier for me to never GET money to start with, than to have taken money months ago and then have someone spring this on me, and have to scrounge up my pennies to pay them back (not to mention after having spent many hours making a plan and coaching them that now I am left uncompensated for).

Please don't do this to me, ladies.

[atomic sagebrush]

Bumping

[atomic sagebrush]

I don't think anyone, anywhere, anytime ever takes abortion lightly. It is a life altering decision. But, it is also a personal decision. I can't get behind anyone choosing to abort for gender, BUT I will support until the day I die a woman's right to make that decision for herself. No one will ever understand a given woman's situation as well as herself and we have to trust people to make the right decisions.

You know, this very old post caught me on a bad day. I know there are probably some people out there who feel similarly and are making a snap judgement about my motivation in posting about this heated topic.

So let me give you an illustration. How would you like to roll out of bed first thing in the morning and have to then spend an hour, while your own daughter is sitting peacefully on the couch and you'd love to spend time with HER, having to construct an argument to save a viable pregnancy with someone who is thinking of aborting for the goddamn CHINESE GENDER CALENDAR? This, after spending countless hours doing everything in one's power to help people get pregnant and to support people after very painful losses?

I bet you wouldn't like it regardless of your views on abortion as a hypothetical situation. Because honestly, it's not a great feeling.

Put your soap boxes away and don't use my personal wishes and preferences, when I do a fair amount to try and help as many people as I can and thus maybe have some right to make a request now and then about the form that help might take, to promote a political agenda. It's really uncool.