atomic sagebrush
May 7th, 2011, 11:33 AM
Updated 12-12-17
Let's take a closer look at weight, body type, and gender ratio.
One question that seems to arise frequently is, if weight loss truly tends to sway for girls, why is it that bigger women often have many girls (an observation made by several people both on IG and GD sites, completely independent of each other - not trying to generalize or offend anyone). And how can a ridiculously thin woman like Victoria Beckham have 3 boys?
Before we revisit the idea of why very thin women and women eating reduced calories might have more girls, let's ask perhaps a more important question. DO thin women and women eating reduced calories truly have more girls? The answer to this question seems to be yes, they do.
Maternal eating disorders influence sex ratio at birth. - PubMed - NCBI (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18720046) In a study involving almost 40,000 women, anorexics and bulemics have more daughters while binge eaters and women with EDNOS-P, defined here: Eating disorder not otherwise specified - Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eating_disorder_not_otherwise_specified) which is anorexia/strange eating patterns where the BMI does not go below normal and the menstrual cycle is not affected, have more sons. The Oxford study also found that women who eat lower calories Page Not Found | Proceedings of the Royal Society of London B: Biological Sciences (http://rspb.royalsocietypublishing.org/content/275/1643/1661.abstract) do indeed have more daughters than is statistically expected.
:think:There are actually several reasons why this may be the case.
LOW PROTEIN - If you eat less calories, you may tend to eat less protein. A vegetarian diet has been shown to sway pink in humans http://genderdreaming.com/forum/showthread.php?1369-why-do-vegetarians-have-more-girls. A high protein diet has been shown to skew the gender ratio in several animal studies.
LOW FAT - Again, less calories tends to mean less fat inake. A high fat diet has been shown to skew the gender ratio towards males in several mammals, here's a study in mice. http://www.pnas.org/content/100/8/4628.full.pdf
LOW BLOOD SUGAR - Thinness and weight loss both reduce blood sugar levels and insulin resistance, making your body more efficient at eliminating sugar from the blood. There are hundreds of links about this on Google, too many to post. Skipping meals also keeps blood sugar low, so a habitual meal skipper may inadvertently sway pink regardless of any other factors in their diet.
WEIGHT LOSS - Weight loss itself might sway for several reasons. When a person eats an inadequate amount for their level of activity, their bodies quickly burn off the available blood glucose and glycogen (the form of glucose stored in liver and in muscle tissues). Then, in order to manufacture the glucose a body needs for its metabolic functions, the body begins to cannibalize its own muscle tissue, breaking down the protein into its basic components, one side effect of which is releasing acids into the blood******. Add in frequent intense exercise that produces other acids as well, and it is easy to see how crash dieting and over exercise can make your body very acidic. (update - I no longer believe in any of this type of thinking regarding "acidity" in the body. we now believe it is something to do with your body using stores of fat as fuel and lower blood sugar levels that sway pink.)
Also, weight loss can also lower muscle mass, lowering testosterone, and lower testosterone is hypothesized to be one mechanism that might sway gender. Here are three of dozens of studies/articles on this topic. http://www.bio.davidson.edu/courses/molbio/restricted/01Dom/Dom.html http://humrep.oxfordjournals.org/content/18/5/1133.2.full http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11446432
Losing weight also lowers blood sugar levels and improves insulin response even if you do not do any other thing to control blood sugar in any way.
Update - I now believe that there is something with weight loss reducing fertility temporarily that sways pink. I don't know what the mechanism is but I believe reduced fertility is how the body ups the chances of conceiving girls.
HORMONE LEVELS - Fat cells make estrogen, and muscle needs testosterone to build/maintain itself so the more muscle you have, the more testosterone your body produces. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Estrogen http://www.ehow.com/about_5173145_testosterone-muscle-growth_.html So it logically follows that at any time your body has more/less and/or fat/muscle :wink: (fun with grammar:happy:) that the levels of hormones in your body will be altered in response.
MINERAL LEVELS - If a person is eating less food overall, their intake of sodium ~may~ be lower (the Oxford study found that moms who had sons both ate more calories and had a higher intake of sodium and potassium than moms who had daughters.) AT the same time however, it also seems that their intake of calcium and magnesium may be lower (particularly in anorexics and vegans) due to lower food intake, and it also seems that potassium intake might be higher in vegan/vegetarians than in women who eat a more animal-food based diet, since potassium is found in large amounts in fruits and vegetables.
That having been said, since skim dairy is often a staple food of dieters it may be that even on a very low-cal diet, at least some very thin women still have a high cal-mag intake if they include a lot of dairy products in their diet. Skim dairy has also been shown to lower fertility overall while full-fat dairy raises it, so it may sway pink in that way.
:think: But none of these things really explain how BOTH heavy and very thin women might have more daughters.
While it's easy to envision a scenario where a woman who eats more calories takes in more calcium/magnesium, that doesn't seem to be the case. The Oxford study found that moms who had the highest caloric intake and the highest calcium intake, had more BOYS, which flies in the face of the mineral theories, but the French Gender Diet claims that it's the ratio of minerals that matters and not the intake itself.
Hormones are almost certainly of a different composition in very heavy women, although they may also have lower muscle mass (as a percentage of body mass), so they may be more like very thin women in this regard.
Heavy women may also follow certain diets/eating patterns like lowfat diets or skipping meals that contribute both to their weight issues and also inadvertently sway pink.
One thing both very heavy and very thin women absolutely with 100% certainty do have in common (in terms of swaying) is reduced fertility. (update - nearly 7 years on, I now believe the fertility factor to be the primary reason swaying via diet works)
LOWER GENERAL FERTILITY - One of the commonly accepted truisms of swaying seems to be that whatever increases overall fertility seems to sway blue, and whatever diminshes fertility seems to sway pink. BMI out of the normal range in either direction has reduced odds of successful IVF http://forum.lowcarber.org/archive/index.php/t-100727.html Obesity has been shown to reduce fertility in both men and women http://journals.lww.com/co-endocrinology/Abstract/2007/12000/Obesity_and_infertility.11.aspx (one study of MANY) as does being overly thin. Even just sudden weight loss can be enough to wreak havoc with the menstrual cycle, as many of us already know.
:think: Now let's talk real world applications. Why might a heavy mom have more daughters???
It may be that her natural setting is more pink friendly. She may have lowered fertility due to her weight, altered hormone levels, have a higher cal-mag intake, and in addition, she may eat a carb-heavy, lowfat, low protein diet, the likes of which was recommended for weight loss for many years and which was proven to sway pink in mice (see above for link).
A high intake of refined carbs also contributes to a crash-and-burn scenario where blood sugar actually plummets after eating sugary foods. When a person eats primarily quick burning, empty carbs like white bread, candy, pasta, and so forth, their blood sugar goes up very high and very fast. This triggers an insulin response; the body releases large amounts of insulin to counteract the sugar in the blood. And then the blood sugar drops even lower than it was to start with - the body runs out of its preferred quick burning glucose/glycogen and begins devouring its own tissue for energy. This leads to intense cravings for sugary foods and just perpetuates the entire cycle again and again.
Also, an excess of sugar in the blood feeds yeast and other microorganisms that release acids as they digest those sugars, so anyone eating a lot of sugar is pretty much turning their body into an acid factory. (again, I no longer believe this has any effect at all)
A diet high in sugar/refined carbs may actually cause low blood glucose, signaling to the body that a girl pregnancy is desirable and contributing to an acid environment. If this seems farfetched, you may be surprised to hear that researchers lowered blood glucose to dangerous levels in test animals by feeding them nothing but sugar.
Conversely, she may go on a crash diet just prior to when she plans on becoming pregnant and inadvertently sways pink with every pregnancy without realizing it. If this sounds farfetched to you, I know several people who have done just that on numerous occasions.
She may also be married to a heavy guy and being overweight has been shown to lower sperm count and testosterone levels in men, while raising their estrogen levels. Overweight men are more likely to father daughters.
:think: Why might some thin women have many sons?
If being thin sways pink, why do I (my friend, my sis, my mom) have so many boys?
Remember, it's not what you look like on the outside that counts in swaying. It's what is happening within your body. Your weight and even your diet is irrelevant if your overall body chemistry is more friendly towards a particular gender. If you're superthin and yet highly fertile, you are going to be more likely to conceive boys regardless of your weight or anything you put into your mouth.
Many women stay thin because of their eating habits, not in spite of them - a diet of lean protein, healthy fats, and lots of fruits and vegetables is going to sway blue even if you wear a size 0 and it will keep you thin as well. Muscle mass takes up less room on the body and burns way more calories than fat does, so you can be quite lean-looking and yet still have large muscles and be able to eat/burn more calories than a heavier person does - and with more calories, may come higher sodium/potassium/protein/nutrient intake and steady blood sugar levels. Also, some genetic factors such as height, make a person more apt to have muscle regardless of diet - a tall thin person can have much more muscle than a short thin person and still seem quite slender.
The testosterone factor cannot be overlooked either - the amounts of testosterone women have in their bodies is miniscule so you do not need to be big, burly, or mannish to have higher testosterone levels. (update - we are no longer convinced that it is testosterone per se, but some personality factor that leads people to be more control-freaks than others.) In fact, some very thin women are highly driven and competitive due to higher testosterone (or whatever it is) and that is WHY they are able to stay so thin - they may be athletic, lift weights, and be very careful to follow a very healthful diet because they have the tendency to be a bit obsessive, competitive, and ever-so-slightly a control freak. :wink:
One thing that I have observed and I don't mean this to be in any way offensive to anyone struggling, but there seem to be a very high number of women recovering from eating disorders amongst the moms with many boys. It seems well within the realm of possibility that women who have had eating disorders may be naturally higher in testosterone than women who haven't (the desire for control and tendency to obsess seem to play a part in eating disorders). Also, if food was very restricted but is now more plentiful, it may inadvertently signal the body that times were hard but now they're better (even if you're not eating very much food, as long as you're eating more) and your body may take that as a cue that a boy would have an improved chance for survival. If you have ever struggled with an eating disorder, PLEASE be very careful with diet in your sway, not only for your health but also to avoid the rise in testosterone that comes with obsessiveness. You can still have a good sway WITHOUT diet if you need to.
Some women who are on the thin side, may also begin to eat very healthfully prior to conceiving, and end up swaying blue without even realizing it. I did this with one of my sons and I actually ended up gaining 3 lbs the month before I conceived!! Other thin women may actually have to gain weight just to be able to conceive. One of my friends from IG who used to be a model (seriously!!) has conceived 4 boys and she always has to gain weight before she gets pregnant or she cannot conceive.
You also have to consider what the male brings to the equation...I think we all probably agree that men like Tom Brady, David Beckham, and Gavin Rossdale just LOOK like they should make a lot of gorgeous athletic boys just like themselves (rawr...is it getting warm in here??:oops:) and there are scientific reasons like testosterone to back it up but let's just picture them without their shirts on instead.
Finally, ask yourself this question and be honest - ARE you (your friend, mom, sis) really that thin? I know that I'm not. Personally, I look thin because I have a small chest but I'm packing a lot of extra pounds on my legs and bum and I've never conceived at less than 125 pounds (which is kind of a lot for me because I"m short) and for 3 of the 4 I was more like 130-135.
So, in the case of Victoria Beckham, she may just be maintaining at a weight that is natural for her. Some people are naturally very thin, and their body chemistry is just accustomed to supporting their metabolism at that weight. She clearly spends a lot of effort maintaining her physique, so she probably eats very carefully and works out, probably with weights by the looks of her. Perhaps she even gains a bit of weight for health purposes just prior to TTC. Or she may just have very high testosterone naturally (and she claims to have PCOS so this may be the case) and this naturally high T level makes her more likely to have boys. And of course David brings something to the table as well.:wink:
:think:Ok, so if both ways work, why don’t we just eat a bunch of sugar and gain weight to get girls? Health issues aside, it’s because each individual’s body chemistry is just too different. Anyone with insulin resistance (meaning their cells aren’t very responsive to insulin‘s effects) might raise their blood glucose levels and end up conceiving a boy when they wanted a girl. But since every person’s blood glucose levels drop when they eat less sugar, lose weight, and exercise, in addtion to the benefits that weight loss has on lowering testosterone and reducing overall fertility, it seems like that is the more reliable path to take when TTC a girl.
Let's take a closer look at weight, body type, and gender ratio.
One question that seems to arise frequently is, if weight loss truly tends to sway for girls, why is it that bigger women often have many girls (an observation made by several people both on IG and GD sites, completely independent of each other - not trying to generalize or offend anyone). And how can a ridiculously thin woman like Victoria Beckham have 3 boys?
Before we revisit the idea of why very thin women and women eating reduced calories might have more girls, let's ask perhaps a more important question. DO thin women and women eating reduced calories truly have more girls? The answer to this question seems to be yes, they do.
Maternal eating disorders influence sex ratio at birth. - PubMed - NCBI (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18720046) In a study involving almost 40,000 women, anorexics and bulemics have more daughters while binge eaters and women with EDNOS-P, defined here: Eating disorder not otherwise specified - Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eating_disorder_not_otherwise_specified) which is anorexia/strange eating patterns where the BMI does not go below normal and the menstrual cycle is not affected, have more sons. The Oxford study also found that women who eat lower calories Page Not Found | Proceedings of the Royal Society of London B: Biological Sciences (http://rspb.royalsocietypublishing.org/content/275/1643/1661.abstract) do indeed have more daughters than is statistically expected.
:think:There are actually several reasons why this may be the case.
LOW PROTEIN - If you eat less calories, you may tend to eat less protein. A vegetarian diet has been shown to sway pink in humans http://genderdreaming.com/forum/showthread.php?1369-why-do-vegetarians-have-more-girls. A high protein diet has been shown to skew the gender ratio in several animal studies.
LOW FAT - Again, less calories tends to mean less fat inake. A high fat diet has been shown to skew the gender ratio towards males in several mammals, here's a study in mice. http://www.pnas.org/content/100/8/4628.full.pdf
LOW BLOOD SUGAR - Thinness and weight loss both reduce blood sugar levels and insulin resistance, making your body more efficient at eliminating sugar from the blood. There are hundreds of links about this on Google, too many to post. Skipping meals also keeps blood sugar low, so a habitual meal skipper may inadvertently sway pink regardless of any other factors in their diet.
WEIGHT LOSS - Weight loss itself might sway for several reasons. When a person eats an inadequate amount for their level of activity, their bodies quickly burn off the available blood glucose and glycogen (the form of glucose stored in liver and in muscle tissues). Then, in order to manufacture the glucose a body needs for its metabolic functions, the body begins to cannibalize its own muscle tissue, breaking down the protein into its basic components, one side effect of which is releasing acids into the blood******. Add in frequent intense exercise that produces other acids as well, and it is easy to see how crash dieting and over exercise can make your body very acidic. (update - I no longer believe in any of this type of thinking regarding "acidity" in the body. we now believe it is something to do with your body using stores of fat as fuel and lower blood sugar levels that sway pink.)
Also, weight loss can also lower muscle mass, lowering testosterone, and lower testosterone is hypothesized to be one mechanism that might sway gender. Here are three of dozens of studies/articles on this topic. http://www.bio.davidson.edu/courses/molbio/restricted/01Dom/Dom.html http://humrep.oxfordjournals.org/content/18/5/1133.2.full http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11446432
Losing weight also lowers blood sugar levels and improves insulin response even if you do not do any other thing to control blood sugar in any way.
Update - I now believe that there is something with weight loss reducing fertility temporarily that sways pink. I don't know what the mechanism is but I believe reduced fertility is how the body ups the chances of conceiving girls.
HORMONE LEVELS - Fat cells make estrogen, and muscle needs testosterone to build/maintain itself so the more muscle you have, the more testosterone your body produces. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Estrogen http://www.ehow.com/about_5173145_testosterone-muscle-growth_.html So it logically follows that at any time your body has more/less and/or fat/muscle :wink: (fun with grammar:happy:) that the levels of hormones in your body will be altered in response.
MINERAL LEVELS - If a person is eating less food overall, their intake of sodium ~may~ be lower (the Oxford study found that moms who had sons both ate more calories and had a higher intake of sodium and potassium than moms who had daughters.) AT the same time however, it also seems that their intake of calcium and magnesium may be lower (particularly in anorexics and vegans) due to lower food intake, and it also seems that potassium intake might be higher in vegan/vegetarians than in women who eat a more animal-food based diet, since potassium is found in large amounts in fruits and vegetables.
That having been said, since skim dairy is often a staple food of dieters it may be that even on a very low-cal diet, at least some very thin women still have a high cal-mag intake if they include a lot of dairy products in their diet. Skim dairy has also been shown to lower fertility overall while full-fat dairy raises it, so it may sway pink in that way.
:think: But none of these things really explain how BOTH heavy and very thin women might have more daughters.
While it's easy to envision a scenario where a woman who eats more calories takes in more calcium/magnesium, that doesn't seem to be the case. The Oxford study found that moms who had the highest caloric intake and the highest calcium intake, had more BOYS, which flies in the face of the mineral theories, but the French Gender Diet claims that it's the ratio of minerals that matters and not the intake itself.
Hormones are almost certainly of a different composition in very heavy women, although they may also have lower muscle mass (as a percentage of body mass), so they may be more like very thin women in this regard.
Heavy women may also follow certain diets/eating patterns like lowfat diets or skipping meals that contribute both to their weight issues and also inadvertently sway pink.
One thing both very heavy and very thin women absolutely with 100% certainty do have in common (in terms of swaying) is reduced fertility. (update - nearly 7 years on, I now believe the fertility factor to be the primary reason swaying via diet works)
LOWER GENERAL FERTILITY - One of the commonly accepted truisms of swaying seems to be that whatever increases overall fertility seems to sway blue, and whatever diminshes fertility seems to sway pink. BMI out of the normal range in either direction has reduced odds of successful IVF http://forum.lowcarber.org/archive/index.php/t-100727.html Obesity has been shown to reduce fertility in both men and women http://journals.lww.com/co-endocrinology/Abstract/2007/12000/Obesity_and_infertility.11.aspx (one study of MANY) as does being overly thin. Even just sudden weight loss can be enough to wreak havoc with the menstrual cycle, as many of us already know.
:think: Now let's talk real world applications. Why might a heavy mom have more daughters???
It may be that her natural setting is more pink friendly. She may have lowered fertility due to her weight, altered hormone levels, have a higher cal-mag intake, and in addition, she may eat a carb-heavy, lowfat, low protein diet, the likes of which was recommended for weight loss for many years and which was proven to sway pink in mice (see above for link).
A high intake of refined carbs also contributes to a crash-and-burn scenario where blood sugar actually plummets after eating sugary foods. When a person eats primarily quick burning, empty carbs like white bread, candy, pasta, and so forth, their blood sugar goes up very high and very fast. This triggers an insulin response; the body releases large amounts of insulin to counteract the sugar in the blood. And then the blood sugar drops even lower than it was to start with - the body runs out of its preferred quick burning glucose/glycogen and begins devouring its own tissue for energy. This leads to intense cravings for sugary foods and just perpetuates the entire cycle again and again.
Also, an excess of sugar in the blood feeds yeast and other microorganisms that release acids as they digest those sugars, so anyone eating a lot of sugar is pretty much turning their body into an acid factory. (again, I no longer believe this has any effect at all)
A diet high in sugar/refined carbs may actually cause low blood glucose, signaling to the body that a girl pregnancy is desirable and contributing to an acid environment. If this seems farfetched, you may be surprised to hear that researchers lowered blood glucose to dangerous levels in test animals by feeding them nothing but sugar.
Conversely, she may go on a crash diet just prior to when she plans on becoming pregnant and inadvertently sways pink with every pregnancy without realizing it. If this sounds farfetched to you, I know several people who have done just that on numerous occasions.
She may also be married to a heavy guy and being overweight has been shown to lower sperm count and testosterone levels in men, while raising their estrogen levels. Overweight men are more likely to father daughters.
:think: Why might some thin women have many sons?
If being thin sways pink, why do I (my friend, my sis, my mom) have so many boys?
Remember, it's not what you look like on the outside that counts in swaying. It's what is happening within your body. Your weight and even your diet is irrelevant if your overall body chemistry is more friendly towards a particular gender. If you're superthin and yet highly fertile, you are going to be more likely to conceive boys regardless of your weight or anything you put into your mouth.
Many women stay thin because of their eating habits, not in spite of them - a diet of lean protein, healthy fats, and lots of fruits and vegetables is going to sway blue even if you wear a size 0 and it will keep you thin as well. Muscle mass takes up less room on the body and burns way more calories than fat does, so you can be quite lean-looking and yet still have large muscles and be able to eat/burn more calories than a heavier person does - and with more calories, may come higher sodium/potassium/protein/nutrient intake and steady blood sugar levels. Also, some genetic factors such as height, make a person more apt to have muscle regardless of diet - a tall thin person can have much more muscle than a short thin person and still seem quite slender.
The testosterone factor cannot be overlooked either - the amounts of testosterone women have in their bodies is miniscule so you do not need to be big, burly, or mannish to have higher testosterone levels. (update - we are no longer convinced that it is testosterone per se, but some personality factor that leads people to be more control-freaks than others.) In fact, some very thin women are highly driven and competitive due to higher testosterone (or whatever it is) and that is WHY they are able to stay so thin - they may be athletic, lift weights, and be very careful to follow a very healthful diet because they have the tendency to be a bit obsessive, competitive, and ever-so-slightly a control freak. :wink:
One thing that I have observed and I don't mean this to be in any way offensive to anyone struggling, but there seem to be a very high number of women recovering from eating disorders amongst the moms with many boys. It seems well within the realm of possibility that women who have had eating disorders may be naturally higher in testosterone than women who haven't (the desire for control and tendency to obsess seem to play a part in eating disorders). Also, if food was very restricted but is now more plentiful, it may inadvertently signal the body that times were hard but now they're better (even if you're not eating very much food, as long as you're eating more) and your body may take that as a cue that a boy would have an improved chance for survival. If you have ever struggled with an eating disorder, PLEASE be very careful with diet in your sway, not only for your health but also to avoid the rise in testosterone that comes with obsessiveness. You can still have a good sway WITHOUT diet if you need to.
Some women who are on the thin side, may also begin to eat very healthfully prior to conceiving, and end up swaying blue without even realizing it. I did this with one of my sons and I actually ended up gaining 3 lbs the month before I conceived!! Other thin women may actually have to gain weight just to be able to conceive. One of my friends from IG who used to be a model (seriously!!) has conceived 4 boys and she always has to gain weight before she gets pregnant or she cannot conceive.
You also have to consider what the male brings to the equation...I think we all probably agree that men like Tom Brady, David Beckham, and Gavin Rossdale just LOOK like they should make a lot of gorgeous athletic boys just like themselves (rawr...is it getting warm in here??:oops:) and there are scientific reasons like testosterone to back it up but let's just picture them without their shirts on instead.
Finally, ask yourself this question and be honest - ARE you (your friend, mom, sis) really that thin? I know that I'm not. Personally, I look thin because I have a small chest but I'm packing a lot of extra pounds on my legs and bum and I've never conceived at less than 125 pounds (which is kind of a lot for me because I"m short) and for 3 of the 4 I was more like 130-135.
So, in the case of Victoria Beckham, she may just be maintaining at a weight that is natural for her. Some people are naturally very thin, and their body chemistry is just accustomed to supporting their metabolism at that weight. She clearly spends a lot of effort maintaining her physique, so she probably eats very carefully and works out, probably with weights by the looks of her. Perhaps she even gains a bit of weight for health purposes just prior to TTC. Or she may just have very high testosterone naturally (and she claims to have PCOS so this may be the case) and this naturally high T level makes her more likely to have boys. And of course David brings something to the table as well.:wink:
:think:Ok, so if both ways work, why don’t we just eat a bunch of sugar and gain weight to get girls? Health issues aside, it’s because each individual’s body chemistry is just too different. Anyone with insulin resistance (meaning their cells aren’t very responsive to insulin‘s effects) might raise their blood glucose levels and end up conceiving a boy when they wanted a girl. But since every person’s blood glucose levels drop when they eat less sugar, lose weight, and exercise, in addtion to the benefits that weight loss has on lowering testosterone and reducing overall fertility, it seems like that is the more reliable path to take when TTC a girl.