Parents keep child's gender a secret

[Halah]

http://www.parentcentral.ca/parent/babiespregnancy/babies/article/995112--parents-keep-child-s-gender-secret

Did anyone else read a little GD into this? I'm not saying it's their main reason at all, or something they are even conscious of, but that it could have played a minor part.

[Zivic-Bubac]

OMG!!!!!! Those people are sick and this is not a 'tribute to freedom and choice' but to gender confused children. We are NOT genderless ( except of course extremely rare medical conditions) and yes, there are many social and cultural things involved with gender but this is not the way to fight it.

What are they trying to prove and to whom? I'm in shock....Book is one thing and real life is other - regarding their 'inspiration' to ruin their children life.
That's a good point, about GD, I bet they are at some level deeply dissappointed for having a 3rd boy so they are trying....what....to turn him into a girl. Just not going to happen.

From what I've read, I got an impression the are ENCOURAGING their boys to make 'girl' choices ( favorite color- pink and purple - give me a break, favorite book - about gender confused child) Children can read subtle signals from their parents and I * think* they feel if they ever choose a truck for a toy, mom and dad wouldn't be happy.

I can not express properly everything I think and feel about this in foreign language, I would have soooo much more to add if my English wasn't so poor.

[lindi]

Hmm. I have a lot of sympathy for this couple. They seem to really care and want their children to feel free to be whoever they "truly" are without people, or society dictating that for them. That said, it is my opinion, and probably not my business, but they are doing it in a kind of unhelpful way.
I think there is a lot of parenting towards what parents wish the world "could be" and not what it is. And also parenting which is reaction to one's own childhood, which can cause extreme choices that perhaps are not as helpful as the parents think.
It IS a struggle during adolescence and adulthood even to figure out who you are and feel comfortable about it, but keeping secrets about facts about yourself is not one of the things I have found helped me feel like I could embrace my true self, so why are these parents keeping a biological fact secret about their child? The truth is, one day the secret will be out, and when that happens, yes the child will be treated in a particular way. That is the world we live in. If we pretend otherwise, we aren't giving our children a chance to experience that and be guided about what it means.
I used to really truly believe boy and girl babies were the same, just treated differently. I have read a lot of neuroscience books on early childhood development and and I now believe they are different, and different in important ways, and can be treated differently to great benefit.
My son NEEDS to run and climb and be a little wild as part of his day. I truly believe the testosterone and structuring of his brain causes this, and so I see it as an important part of his day. I don't expect him to get to kindergarten and be able to sit still the same way a girl can, because boy and girls are different neurologically and physically at this stage. There are some great books on raising boys that really go into depth about this.
And then the choices...yes, it can be very helpful to give a toddler or preschool choices about things because so much is out of their control. But for a child to feel secure, I believe they have to feel and know their parent is in charge, and their parent makes decisions, and some day, as they mature, they will have the responsibilty of decision making, too. But its a lot to give very young children every decision. I believe its stressful and unfair to them.
This couple is coming from the right place, I really believe this. But I disagree about what will help nurture a person who feels confident and secure in who they really are.

[nuthinbutpink]

They are different for sure and it is biological and not my parenting- that I know now! Give my son the same toy I gave my DDs and he plays with it totally different, uses objects differently and is a different creature than the girls!

Those people are attention seeking people. There is no gray area with what you are no matter how much they like to pretend. Definitely see it as GD thing.

[Betty Draper]

I don't know . . . I think the people who were raised by militant hippie-type liberals usually turn out pretty smart, open-minded, interesting, and liberal themselves. This baby will be able to say "I am a boy (or girl)" by the time he/she is 4. This secret thing during the infant stage does make a statement - why is everyone so obsessed? And the older two - being unschooled and choosing clothes - I have no problem with any of that. Society is pretty sick, the gender roles are upsetting, and I tend to side with anyone that challenges those roles. I mean, you can't raise children this way and then throw them in public middle school. But if you can find a nice, sizable group with similar values to socialize with, continue the education at home - by the time they reach college they will probably be pretty smart and capable of having a great life. If you compare this to all the other disturbing ways parents "socialize" their kids - like in super religious closed-off worlds. If I had to choose to be born into this family or into a home-schooled evangelical Christian home, or Orthodox Jewish home, I would take being genderless any day!

[Liv]

Sorry, I think these parents are a little out there.

[Amelie]

I think she was desperately looking for getting a baby girl but got a third boy. She should try it again or HT;-)

[winogurl]

Whatever floats your boat, I suppose.

[rainbowflower]

Hmm, I see that they're trying to give this baby more opportunities and a blank canvas, etc. I do wonder what this will do to the child's identity as they get older, it might define their personality more, or it might be a big shock when they do reveal their gender and get more stereotyped.

I don't disagree with boys choosing to wear pink or purple or sparkles, or to like pink best (traditionally pink was a masculine colour don't forget, it's a more recent thing that pink is feminine). It does make me think - I dress my son in an awful lot of blue. To be honest, most clothes ARE blue so there's not too many alternatives. Before he was born, I always said I'd like to dress my baby in more colours and I bought a fair number of neutral newborn sized clothes, but finding it more difficult to find a variety now he's older.

Oh, and my son loves sparkles - he was mesmerised by my sequin top yesterday!

What does worry me is what child wants to sit for ages and learn to read and write well, or to do maths? If those children decide in the future they'd quite like to be, for example, doctors, will their unschooling have provided a good enough base to have more career opportunities as adults? I'm not convinced a 2 year old or a 5 year old always know what is best for them. I only know one person in the world who likes to solve mathematical equations FOR FUN!

Also, if they choose not to go to school for risk of being teased, maybe their social skills will suffer in the long run?

[Zivic-Bubac]

If the are so 'gender free', why does it matter is this baby a boy or a girl? Why can't they just say: 'Yes, it's a girl/boy and we couldn't care less'
And the fact that they constructed the whole parallel reality of 'genderless upbringing" shows that they care A LOT about the gender fact and IMO , they are obsessed about baby's gender more then all of us put together.

They are not raising their kids to be 'gender free' or whatever, they are raising their boys to be girls. This is called 'experiment in vivo" and noone should be allowed to do that.

I think there is a lot of parenting towards what parents wish the world "could be" and not what it is. And also parenting which is reaction to one's own childhood, which can cause extreme choices that perhaps are not as helpful as the parents think.
It IS a struggle during adolescence and adulthood even to figure out who you are and feel comfortable about it, but keeping secrets about facts about yourself is not one of the things I have found helped me feel like I could embrace my true self, so why are these parents keeping a biological fact secret about their child?
I have read a lot of neuroscience books on early childhood development and and I now believe they are different, and different in important ways, and can be treated differently to great benefit.
boy and girls are different neurologically and physically at this stage. There are some great books on raising boys that really go into depth about this.
But for a child to feel secure, I believe they have to feel and know their parent is in charge Excellent points!!!

[Flava]

Genderless my a$$ ! Plz look at the pics that poor boy look like a girl on all the pics with the pig tail and all! They are psychos!
And look at the baby I think everyone can tell it's a boy. Poor kids gonna be messed up...
I think they have GD big time and wanted a girl.

[LolaInLove]

Hmmmm, I do think it's sad how the oldest, Jazz, is already picked on so much and he knows it. That's kinda sad. I am sure he will grow up to be a cool little guy, but he will undoubtedly have more to go through emotionally than my kids will, that is for sure. I don't mean to judge, but I let my girls choose what they want to wear and play with, but I am not going to point them in the direction of the boy's section at Target. They know they are girls, and are proud of it. They like playing with all sorts of stuff, but you know, this society, however sad, is what it is....so to give your kids this kind of bizarre upbringing would not be my choice. I think my biggest problem is with this unschooling thing....great, I get it, there are all sorts of uncoventional types of learning, but do that after your kid gets home from regular school. I mean, can you even GO to college if you are unschooled? I am going to google in a minute, as I know nothing about it, but if I were on a college admissions committee, I would have a very hard time admitting a young man who never took an exam or learned the "basics." I like to think we "unschool" the girls after 3pm and on the weekends, but I do think in this academic structure in our society, that you need to have either some form of structured schooling, whether it is homeschooling or at an organized school. No goals or testing just doesn't sound like a good example for what life really entails.

[purplepoet20]

My boys....
They dress as boys - some are for either gender like pants, shorts, and jackets to be passed on. I just can't put them in pink.
Have boy toys - they have cars, trains, tools, musical instruments, but they also have a playhouse, kitchen, and baby dolls. I will let them pick their toys within reason... like no barbies. But they do play with their cousins dolls and girly toys.
They are treated as boys but they still get the hugs and kisses if they get hurt.

We don't fully force "boyism" but we try to teach them the difference in boys and girls so when they grow up they know the the different roles. I think it will confuse a child in future and cause major issues in adulthood.

[DoulaMama]

I don't know . . . I think the people who were raised by militant hippie-type liberals usually turn out pretty smart, open-minded, interesting, and liberal themselves. This baby will be able to say "I am a boy (or girl)" by the time he/she is 4. This secret thing during the infant stage does make a statement - why is everyone so obsessed? And the older two - being unschooled and choosing clothes - I have no problem with any of that. Society is pretty sick, the gender roles are upsetting, and I tend to side with anyone that challenges those roles. I mean, you can't raise children this way and then throw them in public middle school. But if you can find a nice, sizable group with similar values to socialize with, continue the education at home - by the time they reach college they will probably be pretty smart and capable of having a great life. If you compare this to all the other disturbing ways parents "socialize" their kids - like in super religious closed-off worlds. If I had to choose to be born into this family or into a home-schooled evangelical Christian home, or Orthodox Jewish home, I would take being genderless any day!

I second this:) I especially agree with the part about not be able to raise them like this and then throwing them to the wolves, so to speak. I plan on unschooling my kids for better part of their schooling but I'm also surrounded by many other parents that are doing the same thing. I feel very confident about their future :D

[LolaInLove]

I second this:) I especially agree with the part about not be able to raise them like this and then throwing them to the wolves, so to speak. I plan on unschooling my kids for better part of their schooling but I'm also surrounded by many other parents that are doing the same thing. I feel very confident about their future :D

It's great that you have a supportive community of fellow unschoolers! That makes all of the difference for a lot of people. I did check it out...not my personal preference, but I am sure your kids will have a great future indeed.

[purplepoet20]

I don't know . . . I think the people who were raised by militant hippie-type liberals usually turn out pretty smart, open-minded, interesting, and liberal themselves. This baby will be able to say "I am a boy (or girl)" by the time he/she is 4. This secret thing during the infant stage does make a statement - why is everyone so obsessed? And the older two - being unschooled and choosing clothes - I have no problem with any of that. Society is pretty sick, the gender roles are upsetting, and I tend to side with anyone that challenges those roles. I mean, you can't raise children this way and then throw them in public middle school. But if you can find a nice, sizable group with similar values to socialize with, continue the education at home - by the time they reach college they will probably be pretty smart and capable of having a great life. If you compare this to all the other disturbing ways parents "socialize" their kids - like in super religious closed-off worlds. If I had to choose to be born into this family or into a home-schooled evangelical Christian home, or Orthodox Jewish home, I would take being genderless any day!

Good point.... my bro and his wife went Christian nut and now live in the middle of no where and are homeschooling their kids with only the bible. They don't believe they need math. Science and history are against God.

[purplepoet20]

We are going to do a Waldorf homeschooling with an unschooling twist (no grades, test, and special subject by choice) and also basic reglious studies on all religions that we can find info on. Only for p-k to 8th because I would like my kids to have the option of going to public school or staying home.

One of my sons best friends is unschooled and he is very smart and well rounded.

[purplepoet20]

At least the parents of the genderless child didn't name him after Hitler like the parents on the east coast did, can't remember where. And the other 2 kids in the family had Nazi names too.

[lindi]

I am all for unschooling. Our school system is for the most part whack. Not for ungendering. Maybe gender-widening...gender re-framing...gender experimenting even...but I think parents are doing much more hurtful things to children and media attention would be better spent on true child abuse and how to stop that.

[DoulaMama]

I am all for unschooling. Our school system is for the most part whack. Not for ungendering. Maybe gender-widening...gender re-framing...gender experimenting even...but I think parents are doing much more hurtful things to children and media attention would be better spent on true child abuse and how to stop that.

I agree with this too. Media needs to focus on important things. I have zero problems with this family but does it really need to be covered?? Right now the FDA is seizing all "birth pools" and is trying to make it illegal to sell them unless you have a licence. Now their telling us where we can and cannot birth!! This, on the other hand, needs media attention.

[DoulaMama]

It's great that you have a supportive community of fellow unschoolers! That makes all of the difference for a lot of people. I did check it out...not my personal preference, but I am sure your kids will have a great future indeed.

I don't know if you're up for a bit of reading but there is a great book by Jon Taylor Gatto(a teacher of 20+ years in the school system in New York)and it's called Dumbing us Down. Fantastic read about the school system. I think everyone should read it. It's small and easy to get through in a few days but it's eye-opening. Not to try to change your mind or anything...I swear :) It's just one of those books that truly made me think about my kids schooling and future.
xo

[purplepoet20]

I agree with this too. Media needs to focus on important things. I have zero problems with this family but does it really need to be covered?? Right now the FDA is seizing all "birth pools" and is trying to make it illegal to sell them unless you have a licence. Now their telling us where we can and cannot birth!! This, on the other hand, needs media attention.

There is nothing wrong with a birthing pool most people giving birth at home plan ahead of time and have help so everything is covered..... they should go after the people giving birth and dumping the baby.

[purplepoet20]

Books by Alfie Kohn about grading, awards, testing and so on are a really good read.... made me change my mind on having my kids IQ's tested. DS1 is very smart and has always been 1-2 years ahead of other kids his age and everyone he meets knows it right away and we thought about testing him and getting him into a gifted program that the local college offers. But after reading the Alfie Kohn books and doing research on the gift kids and what happens when they are adults we decided to let him learn as he goes so he can move as far as he wants in subjects but still be allowed to play as much as he wants. I can't see him at 3 years old spend 8 hrs a day 6 days a week in school and then have 6-10hrs of homework each week, the free college scholarship is not worth it.

[LolaInLove]

I agree with this too. Media needs to focus on important things. I have zero problems with this family but does it really need to be covered?? Right now the FDA is seizing all "birth pools" and is trying to make it illegal to sell them unless you have a licence. Now their telling us where we can and cannot birth!! This, on the other hand, needs media attention.

WHHHHAAAAATTT? That is just crazy! You are right, THAT needs to be in the media's eye right now instead.

[LolaInLove]

I don't know if you're up for a bit of reading but there is a great book by Jon Taylor Gatto(a teacher of 20+ years in the school system in New York)and it's called Dumbing us Down. Fantastic read about the school system. I think everyone should read it. It's small and easy to get through in a few days but it's eye-opening. Not to try to change your mind or anything...I swear :) It's just one of those books that truly made me think about my kids schooling and future.
xo

TOTALLY gonna read that, DM, thanks for the rec! I am so not against unschooling, it just isn't an option for us, and would be really frowned upon where we live. I don't really know many people who homeschool even, the "traditional" way. Actually, we do have pretty decent public schools, but I do take matters into my own hands a lot. I saw a lady on another website's forum say that you can't unschool your kids after regular school, which is what I like to think we do, she says it's a way of life. But, I think that is a little narrow-minded.....I mean, my ex-dh (their dad) would NEVER even consent to them being homeschooled, he is such a conservative Joe America *barf*. But, I have no problem with letting them skip school if I have a day off and we go do something educational.....last time, we went to Atlanta and spent the whole day at MLK's memorial site and his church and we learned all about it. You know, I know it's probably not the same thing as unschooling, but I like to think I am at least doing a good job supplementing their education with real world things that interest them every chance I get, which is better than a lot of parents in this country....pretty much one of the worst problems with public education in this country.

[LolaInLove]

By the way, totally not trying to belittle or compare to unschooling by saying we do cool stuff as much as possible....I do get that it is a way of life and an education system that is not to be compared to taking educational field trips on my Fridays off!

[DoulaMama]

By the way, totally not trying to belittle or compare to unschooling by saying we do cool stuff as much as possible....I do get that it is a way of life and an education system that is not to be compared to taking educational field trips on my Fridays off!

No Worries!!! I don't worry myself about what others do in regards to schooling their children. I took no offense. I know that, sometimes, unschooling is looked upon as a lazy/uneducated way to school children....in fact I think it's the exact opposite:) From the sounds of it, you totally school your children...for the most part, as parents, we all do in one way or another. Manners, finances, house cleaning, cooking, driving, gardening, religion, social etiquette, seeing the world....we do so many things with our kids and they learn all day from us. I really wasn't sure what type of schooling I wanted for my kids but I knew I did not want to send them to the public schools here. We don't have great schools and I knew that I could teach them or find someone to help teach them, easily. I'm still not sure how long we'll homeschool/unschool for...but I'm hoping that it just gets easier with age and we'll figure it out as we go.

As for taking your kids out and traveling/educating them.... I think that is amazing:) Not many kids are lucky to have parents that do that for them. Many rely totally on the system to give them a well rounded education and most of us know that that is not the case. I was homeschooled for 2 years in high school and we went to many places. Those 2 years are the most memorable years of my life. I became ME. I truly found myself and it shaped who I am today in a profound way. I want my kids to see as much of the world as they can, I want them to LOVE learning and continue learning through their lives.
As for unschooling being a lifestyle....I guess you could call it a lifestyle. I don't believe in testing, text books, etc. I don't think kids retain that info. I know for me...and I'm sure many others can say the same...I memorized everything for tests...and then by the next month that info was gone. I crammed info into my head for 3-4 days...and then hoped that it would stay in there for the tests, papers....
Plus I don't believe in age segregation, or learning at set times of the day...or set curriculum...or having to learn on certain days...the list goes on. :D I want my kids to pick what they learn...how they learn...when they learn...to be interested in everything we do because it was their choice in the first place. I don't want a test in the third grade to tell my child that he is a failure because he can't read as fast as 70% of the other children. Sorry...didn't mean to rant:D Just a lot of problems with public schooling.

Keep doing what you're doing Lola!! Your kids will thank you later :HH:

[purplepoet20]

In a way unschooling is harder work....

If your child wants to study "planets" you have to go get enough supplies allow your child to take as long as they want or need... and then... when they decide to study something else you have to start all over again.

Unschooling parents have 10x's more schooling supplies then lets say a religious homeschool. When you choose to based homeschool on your religion or culture you buy just what is approved, but for unschooling you are opening the world to your child and saying learn everything. You end up getting books on every subject, videos to help explain what you don't know, charts and diagrams to put up around the house, online research to educate yourself so you can be ready to answer questions, and sometimes spending hours trying to find activities that help teach what your child is interested in. Your house becomes over cluttered with things you have collected as your child learns. And you learn how to turn everything around you into a lesson, without them knowing... DS1 has learned colors, ABC's, and 123's while shopping at the store.

There is a good number of unschooling families where I live... you learn a lot by just visit their homes for play dates.

[DoulaMama]

WHHHHAAAAATTT? That is just crazy! You are right, THAT needs to be in the media's eye right now instead.
Here's an excerpt from a blog I follow....

The Food and Drug Administration seized a shipment of Aquaborn birthing tubs in a Portland, OR, dock, claiming the tubs are unauthorized medical equipment, and have ordered FDA agents to search and destroy the tubs. Barbara Harper, author of Gentle Birth Choices and founder of Waterbirth International, had a conversation with an FDA official in which she was told, “Pregnancy is an illness and birth is a medical event. Therefore, a pool that a woman gives birth in should be classified as medical equipment.”

[purplepoet20]

So now women are going to just give birth in a dirty tub, kitchen floor, or in the backyard... If a women wants to have a baby at home they will do anything!

At least the stores still have kiddy pools, a good cleaning, and it would work... until the government says that kiddy pools should be destroyed!

[DoulaMama]

So now women are going to just give birth in a dirty tub, kitchen floor, or in the backyard... If a women wants to have a baby at home they will do anything!

At least the stores still have kiddy pools, a good cleaning, and it would work... until the government says that kiddy pools should be destroyed!

^ exactly my thoughts!! What are they going to do???! Get rid of our beds, toilets, showers, bathtubs, kiddie pools, cow troughs...!!! This is absolutely insane. They have no right to put their noses in our birthing business. If I want a tub to give birth in, I'll bloody well use one. UGH! And to think..Pitocin- used to augment labor- has NEVER been approved by the FDA for use in pregnancy. I bet most wouldn't know that.

[purplepoet20]

Maybe they should get rid of Castor Oil because women use it to induce labor... a women is not a Dr so they can't create a treatment for anything, well in that case they should no longer sell pain pills, gels, powders, douches, vitamins, etc because we people shouldn't do things for ourselves/kids/spouses/pets!!!

[iluvmyman]

I don't know . . . I think the people who were raised by militant hippie-type liberals usually turn out pretty smart, open-minded, interesting, and liberal themselves. This baby will be able to say "I am a boy (or girl)" by the time he/she is 4. This secret thing during the infant stage does make a statement - why is everyone so obsessed? And the older two - being unschooled and choosing clothes - I have no problem with any of that. Society is pretty sick, the gender roles are upsetting, and I tend to side with anyone that challenges those roles. I mean, you can't raise children this way and then throw them in public middle school. But if you can find a nice, sizable group with similar values to socialize with, continue the education at home - by the time they reach college they will probably be pretty smart and capable of having a great life. If you compare this to all the other disturbing ways parents "socialize" their kids - like in super religious closed-off worlds. If I had to choose to be born into this family or into a home-schooled evangelical Christian home, or Orthodox Jewish home, I would take being genderless any day!

I am a Christian homeschooling mother and I have to say I'm offended by this comment. Not all religious homes are oppressive and that is a gross generalization. We are a very well rounded family. I understand where these parents are coming from but it's silly to think that girls won't be girls and boys won't be boys by trying to keep things neutral. It's not possible just like it's not possible to lock your children away in to Christian homeschooling houses and not let your kids socialize and not know that other people have worldly opinions. BTW- my kids are very smart and well rounded too and I teach them to have love for everyone. Anytime to push too much of your thoughts on your kids you will find yourself in trouble and possibly creating the opposite.

[iluvmyman]

We are going to do a Waldorf homeschooling with an unschooling twist (no grades, test, and special subject by choice) and also basic reglious studies on all religions that we can find info on. Only for p-k to 8th because I would like my kids to have the option of going to public school or staying home.

One of my sons best friends is unschooled and he is very smart and well rounded.

We like Charlotte Mason's philosophy if you've looked into it before.

[iluvmyman]

Hmmmm, I do think it's sad how the oldest, Jazz, is already picked on so much and he knows it. That's kinda sad. I am sure he will grow up to be a cool little guy, but he will undoubtedly have more to go through emotionally than my kids will, that is for sure. I don't mean to judge, but I let my girls choose what they want to wear and play with, but I am not going to point them in the direction of the boy's section at Target. They know they are girls, and are proud of it. They like playing with all sorts of stuff, but you know, this society, however sad, is what it is....so to give your kids this kind of bizarre upbringing would not be my choice. I think my biggest problem is with this unschooling thing....great, I get it, there are all sorts of uncoventional types of learning, but do that after your kid gets home from regular school. I mean, can you even GO to college if you are unschooled? I am going to google in a minute, as I know nothing about it, but if I were on a college admissions committee, I would have a very hard time admitting a young man who never took an exam or learned the "basics." I like to think we "unschool" the girls after 3pm and on the weekends, but I do think in this academic structure in our society, that you need to have either some form of structured schooling, whether it is homeschooling or at an organized school. No goals or testing just doesn't sound like a good example for what life really entails.

People who "unschool" are all over the map about what the means to them. Some parents believe to let the children lead what the want to learn and call that unschooling and others don't do anything w/ their kids and hope for the best which they also consider unschooling. I think they can go to college but it would be hard for kids who've never taken a test or had deadlines to be successful. It really depends on the student I'm sure. Parents in every aspect of life are all over the map and extreme. I think balance is key. Kids don't have to read by 6, do double digit addition by 7....ya da ya da but at some point they need to learn.

[iluvmyman]

Good point.... my bro and his wife went Christian nut and now live in the middle of no where and are homeschooling their kids with only the bible. They don't believe they need math. Science and history are against God.

People can be nuts in all sorts of things and it's not specific to Christians. Yes, some "Christians" can be extremists and I probably may not agree with what they do but Freedom is Awesome and I'm sure glad I can choose what I want for my family. There are always bad apples in the bunch, just don't look at the bad apple on the top and think all the rest are bad underneath.

My sister is leaning the extreme way and we've had many discussions about me not agreeing so I understand and I don't love it either.

[iluvmyman]

TOTALLY gonna read that, DM, thanks for the rec! I am so not against unschooling, it just isn't an option for us, and would be really frowned upon where we live. I don't really know many people who homeschool even, the "traditional" way. Actually, we do have pretty decent public schools, but I do take matters into my own hands a lot. I saw a lady on another website's forum say that you can't unschool your kids after regular school, which is what I like to think we do, she says it's a way of life. But, I think that is a little narrow-minded.....I mean, my ex-dh (their dad) would NEVER even consent to them being homeschooled, he is such a conservative Joe America *barf*. But, I have no problem with letting them skip school if I have a day off and we go do something educational.....last time, we went to Atlanta and spent the whole day at MLK's memorial site and his church and we learned all about it. You know, I know it's probably not the same thing as unschooling, but I like to think I am at least doing a good job supplementing their education with real world things that interest them every chance I get, which is better than a lot of parents in this country....pretty much one of the worst problems with public education in this country.

I was amazed when I started looking into it and connecting with a homeschooling group how many people do it (from un-schoolers to like traditional home schoolers). Schools are struggling in CA and that's no lie. It's hard for teachers to even teach with ratio's and troubled/undisciplined kids in their classrooms. We chose to make some sacrifices so I could stay at home and homeschool for un-extreme reasons. I don't think public school is horrible, in fact, my 15 year old has gone to public school (she is doing homeschool for the last quarter of this year and will for next year too). There are things I think wonderful about homeschooling but it isn't an option or even a desire for a lot of families and that's cool too. I love the benefits and I personally like having more of an influence on my children then their friends and teachers. My kids are very socially connected and are no way un-socialized. BTW- any student can take up to 6 units per semester at a J.C. If your 9th grader starts taking the 6 units per semester at a J.C. and uses a charter school for high school credits, they can graduate their junior year w/ their A.A. degree. Pretty cool.

[iluvmyman]

In a way unschooling is harder work....

If your child wants to study "planets" you have to go get enough supplies allow your child to take as long as they want or need... and then... when they decide to study something else you have to start all over again.

Unschooling parents have 10x's more schooling supplies then lets say a religious homeschool. When you choose to based homeschool on your religion or culture you buy just what is approved, but for unschooling you are opening the world to your child and saying learn everything. You end up getting books on every subject, videos to help explain what you don't know, charts and diagrams to put up around the house, online research to educate yourself so you can be ready to answer questions, and sometimes spending hours trying to find activities that help teach what your child is interested in. Your house becomes over cluttered with things you have collected as your child learns. And you learn how to turn everything around you into a lesson, without them knowing... DS1 has learned colors, ABC's, and 123's while shopping at the store.

There is a good number of unschooling families where I live... you learn a lot by just visit their homes for play dates.

You can be religious and also unschool. There are soooooo many different programs, books, options, and philosophy's out there it's actually worse then learning to sway when you look at all the different ways to homeschool. You can make homeschooling whatever the heck you want to and it will look different in every single persons home because people are different and what they value is different. That's the beauty of freedom. I'm sure any kids from a loving home will turn out just fine.

[iluvmyman]

Guess what, I'm a Christian Homeschooling Mom and who has given birth at home in a birthing tub, loves homeopathic and alternative methods and I spank my children. So hate away. I'm also a really nice, well-rounded, educated person who loves her family dearly.

[My Fabulous Children]

WHAT F***?!! This is BS. I feel sorry for the little boy!

[DoulaMama]

Guess what, I'm a Christian Homeschooling Mom and who has given birth at home in a birthing tub, loves homeopathic and alternative methods and I spank my children. So hate away. I'm also a really nice, well-rounded, educated person who loves her family dearly.

I just wanted to say, no judgement/hate here. (hugs) Other than the Christian aspect...I am all of the above as well.

[iluvmyman]

I just wanted to say, no judgement/hate here. (hugs) Other than the Christian aspect...I am all of the above as well.
:LotsofLove: Thanks DoulaMama. Boo on the FDA w/ homebirths, just wrong and we should have a right to choose.

[lindi]

I am a Christian homeschooling mother and I have to say I'm offended by this comment. Not all religious homes are oppressive and that is a gross generalization. We are a very well rounded family. I understand where these parents are coming from but it's silly to think that girls won't be girls and boys won't be boys by trying to keep things neutral. It's not possible just like it's not possible to lock your children away in to Christian homeschooling houses and not let your kids socialize and not know that other people have worldly opinions. BTW- my kids are very smart and well rounded too and I teach them to have love for everyone. Anytime to push too much of your thoughts on your kids you will find yourself in trouble and possibly creating the opposite.

I could be wrong, but I think Betty Draper wasn't trying to put down the Christian homeschooling aspect, but maybe the "closed off community" aspect of some religious groups. I have studied some cult-like communities, and there are groups who live in a way to intentionally keep their children from knowing much about the world outside of the home. Some are Christian, some come from new-age principles, and some are Jewish- they are found in many many beliefs, I think she was putting this at the other end of the spectrum of liberal hippie parents.

[Betty Draper]

I am a Christian homeschooling mother and I have to say I'm offended by this comment. Not all religious homes are oppressive and that is a gross generalization. We are a very well rounded family. I understand where these parents are coming from but it's silly to think that girls won't be girls and boys won't be boys by trying to keep things neutral. It's not possible just like it's not possible to lock your children away in to Christian homeschooling houses and not let your kids socialize and not know that other people have worldly opinions. BTW- my kids are very smart and well rounded too and I teach them to have love for everyone. Anytime to push too much of your thoughts on your kids you will find yourself in trouble and possibly creating the opposite.

Sorry! Just getting back to this thread now. After I posted I thought ugh, that came out a little harsh on the religious homeschooling. I most certainly was referring to extremist and close-minded situations. And like Lindi said, I was just pointing out the other end of the spectrum, and that main****** society always seems so threatened by the uber-liberal type. You sound like a great mom/teacher, and no offense meant.

[TTC5]

It is not something I would do.. but each to their own hey.

[Myloves]

It is not something I would do.. but each to their own hey.

:agree:

[LolaInLove]

I think this thread is an excellent example of how everyone has the right to raise there families in the way they choose....starting from where you choose to give birth....and we should be respectful of other's choices, as strange as they may sound. Clearly all of us have one thing in common- the MOST important thing- which is that we care very much about our children and their upbringing! So CHEERS to us all for that!

[purplepoet20]

I am a Catholic, Unconditional Parent, Waldorf/Unschooling, Organic all natural living, Redneck Hippy, with a little Jewish, Celtic and Mohawk beliefs thrown in!!!

I love my brother but we never ever agree on our kids... He thinks kids have to trained from birth or they will become criminals. You have to spank for every little thing are they will not remember what not to do, he spanked his 13mth old for tossing a sippy cup on the floor. You have to have rules for everything starting with the rules from the bible (even the hidden ones), followed by the laws, and lastly whatever rules an adult feels like adding. He thinks any religion outside of his is false and these people should not be treated as human. He went as far as to send me an emial a few days ago that my kids can not play/visit/know his kids until they are adults because he thinks my kids will traumatize their brains... I know my kids are wild but mine have manners while his run and hide if the food in their mouths makes a noise.

I have known people, families, and children of many faiths, lifestyles, culture, or whatever and I have to say even the ones who seem extreme, odd, or crazy still had something in common with me... I may not aggree with someone 100% or even 30% but I still treat them as a person who wants what is best!!!

[iluvmyman]

I am a Catholic, Unconditional Parent, Waldorf/Unschooling, Organic all natural living, Redneck Hippy, with a little Jewish, Celtic and Mohawk beliefs thrown in!!!

I love my brother but we never ever agree on our kids... He thinks kids have to trained from birth or they will become criminals. You have to spank for every little thing are they will not remember what not to do, he spanked his 13mth old for tossing a sippy cup on the floor. You have to have rules for everything starting with the rules from the bible (even the hidden ones), followed by the laws, and lastly whatever rules an adult feels like adding. He thinks any religion outside of his is false and these people should not be treated as human. He went as far as to send me an emial a few days ago that my kids can not play/visit/know his kids until they are adults because he thinks my kids will traumatize their brains... I know my kids are wild but mine have manners while his run and hide if the food in their mouths makes a noise.

I have known people, families, and children of many faiths, lifestyles, culture, or whatever and I have to say even the ones who seem extreme, odd, or crazy still had something in common with me... I may not aggree with someone 100% or even 30% but I still treat them as a person who wants what is best!!!

I'm sooo sorry to hear that about your brother. That's a little extreme and hurtful. Wow, sorry! Going through something kinda similar but not as much on religion w/ DH saying myself and the kids can't see my SIL and her kids. We are talking about this w/ someone right now cuz its ridiculous. That's so hurtful and wrong. I'm sure he's doing what he thinks is best but I hope that all mellows out. :(

[iluvmyman]

Sorry! Just getting back to this thread now. After I posted I thought ugh, that came out a little harsh on the religious homeschooling. I most certainly was referring to extremist and close-minded situations. And like Lindi said, I was just pointing out the other end of the spectrum, and that main****** society always seems so threatened by the uber-liberal type. You sound like a great mom/teacher, and no offense meant.

Thanks Betty, we are all good. That makes sense now that you and lindi posted your reply's. I don't think any "extreme" is great but I'm sure glad we all love our kids enough to try so hard.

[LolaInLove]

Purple, that is how my ex-dh (father of my girls) all of the sudden became when my youngest was born. As you can imagine, I have a hard time with joint custody because they have it like your brother's kids over at his house and like your kids at my house (I have them 85% of the time, thankfully....they just have to go to his house every other weekend but HATE it). I will tell you, though, there is no arguing your point with people like that, as you probably already well know. Sad, I hate that your kids can't see their cousins, but what are ya gonna do?

[atomic sagebrush]

I don't know . . . I think the people who were raised by militant hippie-type liberals usually turn out pretty smart, open-minded, interesting, and liberal themselves. This baby will be able to say "I am a boy (or girl)" by the time he/she is 4. This secret thing during the infant stage does make a statement - why is everyone so obsessed? And the older two - being unschooled and choosing clothes - I have no problem with any of that. Society is pretty sick, the gender roles are upsetting, and I tend to side with anyone that challenges those roles. I mean, you can't raise children this way and then throw them in public middle school. But if you can find a nice, sizable group with similar values to socialize with, continue the education at home - by the time they reach college they will probably be pretty smart and capable of having a great life. If you compare this to all the other disturbing ways parents "socialize" their kids - like in super religious closed-off worlds. If I had to choose to be born into this family or into a home-schooled evangelical Christian home, or Orthodox Jewish home, I would take being genderless any day!

OUCH. We are all friends here and from many different backgrounds.

[atomic sagebrush]

Hmmmm, I do think it's sad how the oldest, Jazz, is already picked on so much and he knows it. That's kinda sad. I am sure he will grow up to be a cool little guy, but he will undoubtedly have more to go through emotionally than my kids will, that is for sure. I don't mean to judge, but I let my girls choose what they want to wear and play with, but I am not going to point them in the direction of the boy's section at Target. They know they are girls, and are proud of it. They like playing with all sorts of stuff, but you know, this society, however sad, is what it is....so to give your kids this kind of bizarre upbringing would not be my choice. I think my biggest problem is with this unschooling thing....great, I get it, there are all sorts of uncoventional types of learning, but do that after your kid gets home from regular school. I mean, can you even GO to college if you are unschooled? I am going to google in a minute, as I know nothing about it, but if I were on a college admissions committee, I would have a very hard time admitting a young man who never took an exam or learned the "basics." I like to think we "unschool" the girls after 3pm and on the weekends, but I do think in this academic structure in our society, that you need to have either some form of structured schooling, whether it is homeschooling or at an organized school. No goals or testing just doesn't sound like a good example for what life really entails.

Yes, you can go to college if you're unschooled. Unschooling is actually a pretty viable lifestyle for many people and it produces some pretty amazing kids. (I don't unschool but I do homeschool, and I am going to take a much more relaxed approach with the little boys than I did with the big boys.).

[atomic sagebrush]

I don't know if you're up for a bit of reading but there is a great book by Jon Taylor Gatto(a teacher of 20+ years in the school system in New York)and it's called Dumbing us Down. Fantastic read about the school system. I think everyone should read it. It's small and easy to get through in a few days but it's eye-opening. Not to try to change your mind or anything...I swear :) It's just one of those books that truly made me think about my kids schooling and future.
xo Totally a great read. :agree:

[atomic sagebrush]

People can be nuts in all sorts of things and it's not specific to Christians. Yes, some "Christians" can be extremists and I probably may not agree with what they do but Freedom is Awesome and I'm sure glad I can choose what I want for my family. There are always bad apples in the bunch, just don't look at the bad apple on the top and think all the rest are bad underneath.

My sister is leaning the extreme way and we've had many discussions about me not agreeing so I understand and I don't love it either.

Standing ovation!! (((whistles)))

[atomic sagebrush]

Sorry! Just getting back to this thread now. After I posted I thought ugh, that came out a little harsh on the religious homeschooling. I most certainly was referring to extremist and close-minded situations. And like Lindi said, I was just pointing out the other end of the spectrum, and that main****** society always seems so threatened by the uber-liberal type. You sound like a great mom/teacher, and no offense meant.

Totally understood but a reminder that we should all keep in mind that we are women from around the world, from many different backgrounds and we all have 10,000 times more in common with each other than we have differences is never a bad thing. ♥♥♥