High FSH what can I do naturally?????

[n710]

Hi All,
I was actually on here quite a bit a year or so ago getting ready for my blue sway. I had 4 kids (1 boy, 3 girls) in 5 years so no trouble with fertility. Anyway, my youngest was 6 months and on our second attempt I found out I had high FSH. (18) Age35
Anyway, we did try two IUI cycles unmediated when my number was 10 or below and spent all the rest of the months trying on our own.
So my regular OBGYN recommended acupunture, but it's not in the budget, $65/session.
I did go though and she felt my pulse, checked my tongue and gave me herbs in pill form to try for the end part of my cycle. So I will start that this month, but I really want to try some other things too. Any advice for the high FSH???

I was taking wheatgrass tablets last summer/fall before our ttc, but stopped after a couple months when I learned about the high FSH and they really make things sound hopeless.

So, I am planning to add back the wheatgrass tablets,
Vitex (even though I am ttc blue-maybe it will help with FSH?)
and maybe bee pollen/royal jelly

I am already taking prenatal, Vit. D, CoQ10 (50mg), DHEA (10mg).

Also I have noticed my temps have been higher in the luteal phase (so higher progesterone?)
And the past 3 cycles, my temps have stayed high 3-4 days into my period. So it's like my progesterone isn't dropping off right away.

Anyone have that??? Is that normal? Is it part of high FSH???
Thank you to anyone who has any advice, etc?

[atomic sagebrush]

HI! So happy to hear from you!

Just giving it to you straight here, the best data we have indicates that FSH is kind of a set thing. There are herbs that appear to lower it, but they are probably masking the problem and not fixing anything. The good news is, you CAN get pg even with higher than normal FSH. But it requires patience and luck. Do whatever it takes to improve your egg quality and overall good health and then just TTC and await the "golden egg".

I would have you stay away from the vitex. I have not seen the best results with vitex for older moms - everything seems like it should work and be ok but then people don't get pg till they drop it. I would also not have you do DHEA unless yours has been tested and found to be low. If you don't need to take it, then DHEA can up testosterone at the expense of estrogen and that is not going to help you get pregnant. I don't love the RJBP either but that's because I don't think it's safe for people to take. I'd have you use a B complex or else brewer's yeast for B vitamins and be sure you're getting some good quality protein and healthy fat.

It can be a variant of normal for your temps to stay high a few days during AF. It's not that your prog is staying high, it's that your body hasn't had time for estrogen to rise and lower temps yet.

[n710]

Thanks AS, I can't tell you how much of an anchor you provide for people trying to navigate through all the info. and no info out there!

Would Maca root be helpful do you think? Or False Unicorn Root?

I know I read that in your boosting egg health essay along with the Vitex. Or do you think it would be too much like Vitex. Crazy because everything out there says Vitex can help with FSH, shorter cycles, etc.

How much B?
I am switching off btw One A Day and my prescription prenatals which have 3mg of B1, 3mg of B2, 15mg of B3, 20mg of B6, and 12mcg of B12

The One A Day have more in all B's except B6, which are lower (6mg)

I am a vegetarian, but definitely do 4 eggs/day, nuts and raisins every day and 1 cup full fat Greek yogurt in a shake in the am.
I will drop the DHEA, wasn't sure about it anyway which is why I only got got the 10mg.

Thank you for the tip about the high temps, with my cycles getting shorter and then that as well as actually having PMS now I haven't known what is going on other than my OBGYN just telling me that high FSH isn't normal at my age, but there is nothing I can do.
All of this has made me feel very middle age to old all of a sudden. I never knew something like infertility stuff could happen so quickly. My youngest DD was 6 months when I had the first high reading and now she is 18 months and before this I was always pregnant by my youngest's 1st birthday. I hope other women out there don't wait if it is something they will regret. It feels so sad to want another baby and not be able to have one.

[nuthinbutpink]

I would use DHEA. It has helped many of us in HT with high FSH. The ongoing study has women on 75 mg per day. It improves quality if it works. I don't see the harm in trying it at all

[atomic sagebrush]

I am not a fan of the Maca, I think it's a bit of an unknown for now and I know a couple people who had some weird stuff go down when they were taking it.

FUR is an endangered species and I don't think it does much anyway so I don't feel its use is justified when it is driving the plant to extinction.

:agree: perfect level of B's. I think those levels are much better than the megadose B's.

:agree: with vegetarian diet, some evidence indicates that may be best anyway.

With the DHEA, HT works different than natural cycles IMO because you need to keep ovulating on your own without medical intervention, so if something like DHEA can fudge up your natural ovulation (Google and there are lots of horror stories about this), it doesn't matter if you have better egg quality if you're not making enough estrogen to ovulate/sustain pregnancy. Additionally it may not be best for those with DOR. Here is a better explanation from Dr. Sher
DHEA and IVF: Harmful in Certain Cases | IVF Authority (http://haveababy.com/fertility-information/ivf-authority/dhea-and-ivf-harmful-in-certain-cases/) and some of the good stuff about DHEA is coming from people who are profiting on it (that doesn't mean it doesn't work!) Supplements, Part I: DHEA | the infertile chemist (http://infertilechemist.wordpress.com/2013/07/04/supplements-part-i-dhea/)
and even most of the doctors who have studied it don't recommend taking it without dr supervision. DHEA: Ignore the Hype (http://www.quackwatch.com/01QuackeryRelatedTopics/dhea.html)

I know we have seen good results for those doing HT but just for my way of thinking, something that works for HT doesn't necessarily translate to natural cycles.

[atomic sagebrush]

I am not a fan of the Maca, I think it's a bit of an unknown for now and I know a couple people who had some weird stuff go down when they were taking it.

FUR is an endangered species and I don't think it does much anyway so I don't feel its use is justified when it is driving the plant to extinction.

:agree: perfect level of B's. I think those levels are much better than the megadose B's.

:agree: with vegetarian diet, some evidence indicates that may be best anyway.

With the DHEA, HT works different than natural cycles IMO because you need to keep ovulating on your own without medical intervention, so if something like DHEA can fudge up your natural ovulation (Google and there are lots of horror stories about this), it doesn't matter if you have better egg quality if you're not making enough estrogen to ovulate/sustain pregnancy. Additionally it may not be best for those with DOR. Here is a better explanation from Dr. Sher
DHEA and IVF: Harmful in Certain Cases | IVF Authority (http://haveababy.com/fertility-information/ivf-authority/dhea-and-ivf-harmful-in-certain-cases/) and some of the good stuff about DHEA is coming from people who are profiting on it (that doesn't mean it doesn't work!) Supplements, Part I: DHEA | the infertile chemist (http://infertilechemist.wordpress.com/2013/07/04/supplements-part-i-dhea/)
and even most of the doctors who have studied it don't recommend taking it without dr supervision. DHEA: Ignore the Hype (http://www.quackwatch.com/01QuackeryRelatedTopics/dhea.html)

I know we have seen good results for those doing HT but just for my way of thinking, something that works for HT doesn't necessarily translate to natural cycles.

[n710]

Thanks AS! I am taking your advice on the DHEA. I think I need to not take things that affect hormones even though I must have an imbalance it seems as though you just have to get your body as healthy as possible and see if allows for a good egg.

I will be returning the Vitex and Maca, keeping and trying the Bee Propolis as I ordered that one online. I have been stung quite a bit in my lifetime, at least 15 times so don't think I am allergic.
Also, keeping the multi/prenatal, Vit D, CoQ10, Wheatgrass.

I am cutting down on my 30 Day Shred work out (been doing that for a couple years now) and doing more yoga and trying to meditate (easier said than done with all the kids;)

Maybe we can save for some acupuncture, but it looks like the regiment is once a week for that and $65 a time, just won't work out.

Are there teas I should be drinking?

Anyone know more about the Chinese herbs the acupuncturist has you take? Are there certain ones specific for the health of your endocrine/pituitary system?
After the herbal consult she put me on a relax combination supplement with
Dong Quai,
Ginger, Bai-zhu,
Chinese peony,
Bupleurum,
Chinese licorice,
Chinese mint.
I take it for the last week of my cycle into the first few days of a new cycle. Not sure if any of these things are red flags? Are these what others are given?

[The Anchor]

This is great advice atomic. I'm just going to add my 2 cents.

There is no use lowering your FSH. FSH is just an indicator of depleting ovarian reserve. So lowering it doesn't mean you are fixing anything. This comes straight from my RE.

My RE also recommended ubiquinol, which is the more bioavailable form of COQ10. It is basically recommended for anyone over 35.

STAY AWAY from vitex, maca, bee pollen and EPO. I am fairly sure that each one of those things completely messed up my normally perfect 26 day cycles. I should add that I WAS taking RJBP in honey when I got my boy...who was a OHW but like atomic says, it's just a combo of b-vitamins and some amino acids, not some magical elixir :)

I've been doing the acupuncture, every other week. I love it, but I'm still not pg. I was taking the dong quai and turmeric and some "warming" blend for yin (?). Two months ago I knocked out all supps (including chinese) except vit D, ubiquinol, prenatal, krill oil, folic, probiotics. This month I returned to my perfect cycle.

Good luck to you...

[n710]

Thanks Anchor! It is so helpful to hear others' advice and experience especially when you are not using fertility treatments. Everything I read online is about the injectables on low FSH months and IVF/IUI, follicles size, etc. We do have a few IUIs left that our insurance will cover, but it seemed too stressful going in for all the blood tests, monitoring, etc. (Not that is has worked on our own though) It feels like if the egg is a good one we'll be able to get pg. naturally w/out the IUI especially since we've already had kids. I just assume that we aren't because the egg hasn't been healthy enough yet. This has definitely been a change for us though having gotten pregnant the last 3 times on the first month we tried.

Can I ask if you think the RJBP screwed up your cycle as well? Do you think it is that strong of a thing?

Nothing is a sure thing, I have read so many stories about people doing acupuncture and getting pregnant in a couple months and then people doing it for years and nothing. It seems the ones that get pregnant probably would have w/out the acupuncture just happened to be their month. I guess the common thread seems to be get as healthy as possible, reduce stress, etc.
That makes a lot of sense about your RE said about the FSH. It is probably more impt. that you are still ovulating and that there is fluctuation in the number means you are not in menopause. Are you trying to do treatments then?

Why did you choose to stop the Chinese herbs? I am wondering the same, how long I should give them? The acupuncturist said I think a lot and I think there are supposed to help with that.

[The Anchor]

We are a lot alike :)

All three of my pregnancies were one hit wonders. I miscarried my third about a year ago and have been TTC ever since. We tried naturally for 6 cycles afterwards, then a couple of rounds of IVF (BFNs) and now I am back to trying naturally.

The RJBP didn't screw up my cycle when I was taking it to sway boy. That was a few years ago though, and I'm 41 now :worry:. I stopped taking everything because my cycles were suddenly WHACK, and I couldn't explain it. It is very possible that my age has something to do it...perimenopausal? Probably. I'm hoping that it's not all over for me. I just dropped everything to be on the safe side, IYKWIM.

[HopefulMonster]

I'm 26 with FSH 16. The best explanation I had was that the problem isn't that I have high FSH, high FSH is just a symptom caused by my actual problem, which is diminished ovarian reserve/barely any freaking eggs left lol. The worst part is that it is sadly one of the only things left fertility wise that you simply cannot do anything about. You can artificially lower your FSH levels with wheatgrass etc but it makes no difference to anything except the number on the blood test, your fertility hasn't changed/improved.

It sounds cliché but you really do just need one good egg. I felt so lost and hopeless when I found out. I have one child and had been in no rush to have more, as I wanted a decent age gap of 3+ years in between each child to feel I fully enjoyed each, and I thought I had plenty of time! Out of the blue it seemed that I might never conceive again naturally, high tech was unlikely to work, I wouldn't respond to the meds, the drs were pushing donor eggs and it was just a nightmare. Yet I'm here, pregnant, naturally. We just kept trying and got lucky.

I wouldn't want to take anything just because there's definitely nothing that can fix the problem, but there's a lot that could potentially make the problem worse, if that makes sense, so I was happiest leaving everything well alone.
If you try every cycle, and don't lose hope, you will get your lucky month too. Xxxxxxx

[nuthinbutpink]

I'm sorry guys but I completely disagree that you can't do anything. There are current, ongoing studies about DHEA and its positive effects on BOTH reserve and quality. AMH is a better indicator of fertility than FSH because FSH can bounce around but AMH can change too! For the better.

If the options are do nothing and just accept it or try something like DHEA, I would try it.

After 8 or so months on DHEA, my FSH dropped from 10 to 6. My AMH increased from .75 to 1.25 and my AFC went from 7 to 12. It can and does work. I'm proof of that.

[atomic sagebrush]

I think DHEA is well worth a try if you are going HT and are having some help to keep your cycle going, but for natural cycles it worries me because it is known to mess up cycles and stop ovulation for some people. Plus how and when do you come off it? If someone is doing FET then it's ok because they have time to come off it gradually before transfer. but if they're going to be pregnant naturally that same month it just worries me, both staying on it and coming off it seem risky when there is a baby on board. I don't feel like I have a good level of confidence as to safety and when I don't, I hesistate (and I very well may be 100% wrong to do that.) :)

[atomic sagebrush]

I think that the strategy of getting your body optimally healthy and then awaiting the golden egg is the best way there is. :agree:

Using the bee propolis is of course at your discretion, that having been said just so you know, honeybees are not aggressive and generally when you get stung by "bees" it's yellow jackets, wasps, hornets and not real live bees. You can be allergic to all stinging insects or only one kind or anything inbetween. I had been stung by various things many times and never had a reaction till two years ago.

Dong quai - strong blood thinner and not safe during pregnancy, I would personally have you avoid this one because you have to stop it suddenly if you get pg, and stopping blood thinners all of a sudden, I do not believe to be safe for iether you or a potential pregnancy. The goal of dong quai is to bring blood flow to the uterus, so I would use a hot pack on your abdomen from end of AF-O instead. It's also an antiinflammatory which may inhibit ovulation for some people - you need to be a little bit inflamed for the egg to emerge from the ovary.

Ginger fine in moderation but will strenghten blood thinning effects of dong quai.

Bai-zhu - could not find any info on this one

Chinese peony - another strong blood thinner and is used to cause abortions.
Also may sway pink

Bupleurum - has the saponins in it that are also in TT, may help raise T and E levels and possibly good for blue sway. NOt sure if safe during pregnancy

All licorice is dangerous when pregnant and proved to cause developmental delays when women take it during pregnancy. I don't know how long these effects may last and so I do not recommend anyone using either Western or Chinese licorice. Also may sway pink

Chinese mint - May sway pink and since botanically related plants have been used to induce abortions, I do not recommend during pregnancy, but ok before as long as you stop at O.

If you're taking the above, only the last week of the cycle into the first few days of the new cycle, they are ~probably~ going to be ok as long as you are certain beyond certain you cannot be preggo, but I am worried that it's going to cause you megaheavy periods!! If it does and you want to continue them, I would add in an additional iron supplement of 18-30 mg or so, taken 3 days a week through your whole cycle.

One thing that I really do think can help and is pretty safe is the Red Rasp. Leaf Tea. I would do 3 cups of that a day during the part of your cycle you are for sure not pg, and then if you may be pg, drop it to 1 cup a day till you get BFP and then start spacing days that you take it, so every other day, then two, then three, till you're down to one a week then discontinue until 36 weeks pg when you can start easing back into it again.

[atomic sagebrush]

RE RJBP and messing up cycles - it's the B vitamins (LOL) B6 can really mess up cycles and the RJBP has a lot of B6 in it. Also has a lot of inositol which can also affect cycles.

[n710]

Just want to say a big thank you to everyone! The whole FSH thing can be so isolating so it is so nice to hear everyone's experiences.

Anchor-I hear ya- it is so hard to go from amazing fertility to nothing so quickly. We also have been trying since last fall. The longer it is, it really makes you want to try different thing, the herbs, Chinese approach (TCM), etc. It is hard to just be patient and not know if it will ever happen or not.

HM-Congrats! I am sure your age has really worked in your favor even with the high FSH. How long did it take the second time?

NBP-Thank you for sharing your experience. I definitely read about a lot of people getting pregnant after using DHEA. I wish they had tested my AMH, but as far as I know they never did, unless it is a typical part of the Day 3 blood test. I did 4-5 months at the clinic and had an FSH of 5, 18, 14, 7. It is funny because in that time I can't say I really did anything different so it feels the high months are sometimes random. The place I am at now is that I would rather not know the numbers. I am trying to really make sure I am relaxed, not stressed and focused on the present too and not missing out on my current kids' experiences. We'll see what happens.

AS-Thanks, I am going to think about the RJBP then. On one hand it feels hard to feel like I am not doing anything differently from the past year other than adding wheatgrass, but at the same time I really feel like there can't be a miracle herb out there, otherwise all women would be getting pregnant. So, everyone's hormone levels, cycles, etc. are so different even though they share high FSH. Therefore, no way to tell what the best herb/treatment would be for an individual. I guess I don't feel like I have a lot of time either. I can assume the longer you have high FSH the lower the ovarian reserve is. Thank you so much for helping me navigate all the info out there esp. with older age/FSH that has its own "set of rules" I'd be on all the Boosting Egg Health stuff right now and probably messing myself up.

[n710]

Thanks AS,
I think I will be dropping the Chinese herbs then. I had thought about the heating pad too. I the acupuncturist was giving them to me because I told her I had been having more PMS symptoms than I used to and after looking at my tongue/pulse. She never did tell me what I might be deficient in or have excess in (i.e. yang, Qi, etc)

Is it okay to drink the RRL tea cold? I have never liked tea, but I know I could handle it better cold than warm.

Anything to help with cycles then?
In the past year my cycles have gone from 28-30 to 25-27 days, most time it is the FP phase than it shorter not the LP.
The one nurse at the clinic said that most likely my body knows it is a bad egg so it is trying to get rid of it sooner

[The Anchor]

I did investigate the DHEA, I know NBP is a big advocate. But my hormone panel showed my DHEA levels were fine, and doc would not prescribe (you need a prescription for DHEA in Canada). Like Atomic said, I'm wary to add one more hormone-type supplement to add to the grief of my already-messed-up cycles. That is not to say that DHEA wouldn't work for you, but I strongly advise to get tested for it first.

[atomic sagebrush]

Cold RRLT is fine with me (altho the Chinese may want it hot, not sure how that works with the yin-yang stuff) but you need to let it steep hot and then cool versus making sun tea. The goodness will come out better if you use hot water.

FP being shorter is fine!!! That is actually quite normal as we enter perimenopause, our bodies want to ovulate faster and faster so we have more chances at pregnancy before it's too late. The average FP falls to 10 days by the time the average gal is 40. Normal variation in the length of the f... [Br J Obstet Gynaecol. 1984] - PubMed - NCBI (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/6743609) As long as the FP is longer than 10 days it's fine, the egg has time to mature and the lining to form. (the RRLT will help with lining anyway) Some people have gotten pg with FP of as little as 7 days.

That nurse does not know what she's talking about. :( Bad info.

[atomic sagebrush]

Cold RRLT is fine with me (altho the Chinese may want it hot, not sure how that works with the yin-yang stuff) but you need to let it steep hot and then cool versus making sun tea. The goodness will come out better if you use hot water.

FP being shorter is fine!!! That is actually quite normal as we enter perimenopause, our bodies want to ovulate faster and faster so we have more chances at pregnancy before it's too late. The average FP falls to 10 days by the time the average gal is 40. Normal variation in the length of the f... [Br J Obstet Gynaecol. 1984] - PubMed - NCBI (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/6743609) As long as the FP is longer than 10 days it's fine, the egg has time to mature and the lining to form. (the RRLT will help with lining anyway) Some people have gotten pg with FP of as little as 7 days.

That nurse does not know what she's talking about. :( Bad info.

[n710]

I assume RRL supplements 480mg are NOT as effective as the actual steeped tea?

[n710]

Wow AS! You are such a wealth of information, I seriously would be lost without your advice. Thank you for saying that about the nurse's comment. It really made sense to me at the time so I have been thinking every early ovulation has been a bad egg.
I have now been Oing day 10-13 instead of 15-18 so it's nice to know there is still hope.

Anchor, I have no clue about my DHEA, I asked the clinic about it when I was going to start taking it and literally they said, "Yeah whatever, take whatever, doesn't matter amount" It was the nurse, but I could tell they get asked about supplements probably all the time and it must be their thought that they don't matter. So I was only doing 10mg for 3 months because I just wasn't sure about the 75mg.

[atomic sagebrush]

I assume RRL supplements 480mg are NOT as effective as the actual steeped tea?

We aren't sure. I ahve seen people seem to get results with both so do what works for you.

[atomic sagebrush]

Wow AS! You are such a wealth of information, I seriously would be lost without your advice. Thank you for saying that about the nurse's comment. It really made sense to me at the time so I have been thinking every early ovulation has been a bad egg.
I have now been Oing day 10-13 instead of 15-18 so it's nice to know there is still hope.

Anchor, I have no clue about my DHEA, I asked the clinic about it when I was going to start taking it and literally they said, "Yeah whatever, take whatever, doesn't matter amount" It was the nurse, but I could tell they get asked about supplements probably all the time and it must be their thought that they don't matter. So I was only doing 10mg for 3 months because I just wasn't sure about the 75mg.

My suspicion is that she thought you meant DHA and not DHEA. I have seen several people confused about that even some who should know different.

DHA is just an essential fatty acid supp and it's fine to take. I agree they get asked about stuff all the time and they're prob. over it. Unfortunately some of the people working in the medical field have as much passion for their work as my teenage son has for his gig as a dishwasher. :(

DHEA is different, like Anchor mentions it's by prescription only in some countries and not something that most docs just want people taking freely, at least not without some level of monitoring (HT ladies will be closely monitored whereas we who TTC naturally won't). I think the nurse was in a rush and misheard/understood.

[n710]

Thanks AS!

Sticking with my supps than and attempting to try and get used to the RRL tea. I just got a whole Frontier bag from Amazon as well as the supps.

Here's hoping this year works out better than last year for us ;)