Question about bbt charting

[Trishy74]

I started charting for my first time this cycle. I understand that day of ovulation, body temp spikes but is not noticeable until after the spike that ovulation has occurred. However, I spiked on Sunday or Monday and spiked again yesterday morning which according to fertility friend, I ovulated on Saturday last weekend. I believe I ovulated Sunday into Saturday morn bc I had bad pains Monday morning in left ovary and got pos opk on Friday night and my lh surge usually lasts 2 full nights. With that said, my spike yesterday jumped a lot and another .5 this morning. I also have sore breasts and had creamy cm yesterday and day before and my sense of smell is wicked yesterday and today. So just wondering, does a bbt which keeps rising each day at 5dpo mean anything as far as pregnancy? I also had a burning sensation backache for 2 days after ovulation which lasted for 2 days. It reminded me if a backache pain I had during pregnancy with my son in the first tri but I would think that's just too early to have anything to do with implantation. Although it was on my left side where I ovulated from this month. Just curious to hear opinions on bbt charting. I was like 97.80 on Friday and woke 98.35 Saturday and today 98.40. So weird to me how the body works!

[rainbowflower]

do you have a chart link?
a second shift can be a sign of pregnancy - it's called a triphasic chart. It could also mean you're starting to come down with a bug (depending how big the jump is)

[atomic sagebrush]

Symptoms at 5 DPO are pretty much impossible for natural conceptions, so one of two things may have occured.

Fristly you just had a nice strong O with a big strong corpus luteum that cranked out a lot of progesterone very quick and made it feel like you are preggo. Secondly, you may have have Oed earlier than you thought and could be 7-10 DPO and you can start having symptoms at that point.

YES once you start to have temps that rise and rise and rise that is a good sign of pregnancy, but again that is not something that happens at 5DPO.

Re O pain, you can have O pain before, during and after O, sometimes for days afterwards so you can't use that as any kind of judge.

[Trishy74]

Thanks everyone for the replies. I had a feeling it was too early for implantation but with such a strong sense if smell and my breasts hurting I thought maybe it was a good sign. I know according to fertility friend, it is saying I ovulated on Saturday. Could ovulation occur so soon after a pos opk the night before? I am going to try to attemp to put a link to my ff chart. I was thinking maybe I'm a slow riser for temps after I first looked at the ovulation temps.

http://www.fertilityfriend.com/home/48e539

[aidansmum]

It sounds promising Trishy74. I also think 5 DPO can't produce preg symptoms, just progesterone symptoms. I had a cycle last year that I could promise I was pregnant, had nausea from 2 DPO, enough to make me run to the bathroom, but ended up not being preg at all! I wouldn't read too much into it until 10 DPO. I tried to open your chart but it opens my own FF chart, are you sure that's the right link? Find the share option under the chart and they will provide you with the right link. Good luck!

[Trishy74]

Hi aidsnsmum, thank you soon much for telling me how to fix the link. I had no idea how to do it correctly. Appreciate your help. I know it sounds promising but I'm not getting my hopes up just yet. I know when I conceived my son, i had sytoms of dizziness and nausea 7 dpo and 9 nights from dtd. Lol. I am putting the correct link into this post. It's crazy how the body can play with our mind although we feel the things we do. Thanks again for putting me in the right direction with posting my chart. Appreciate it.

48e539 Ovulation charts on FertilityFriend.com (http://www.fertilityfriend.com/home/48e539)



It sounds promising Trishy74. I also think 5 DPO can't produce preg symptoms, just progesterone symptoms. I had a cycle last year that I could promise I was pregnant, had nausea from 2 DPO, enough to make me run to the bathroom, but ended up not being preg at all! I wouldn't read too much into it until 10 DPO. I tried to open your chart but it opens my own FF chart, are you sure that's the right link? Find the share option under the chart and they will provide you with the right link. Good luck!

[greeneyes]

I know this is late, but I think its possible you *might* only be 3dpo. Its hard to say with all the open circles, but you generally don't have drops like that after you ovulate. At least not so quickly after O. Good luck!

[rainbowflower]

I think your OV date is pretty certain based on your chart, and FF has no doubts...
it is actually possible to get preg symptoms at 5dpo - that is the earliest an egg can implant and if you are particularly sensitive to hormone changes the tiny amount of hcg produced might be enough to cause a few small ones...but most "early pregnancy symptoms" are actually just caused by increase in progesterone caused after OV - such as bloating, nausea, etc.

I think the chart looks promising

[Trishy74]

Greeneyes I just did a search online bc I wasn't sure what those open circled meant. It basically said they are there bc I entered something on my chart which makes those temps somewhat unreliable or I entered sleep deprived for that night which I know I did bc I had broken sleep a couple of nights. Also it said it could produce the open circles if time temp was taken was different. Such as today bc my dog woke me during the night so I slept a bit later and took temp a bit later. I find after I ovulate I have a hard time staying asleep. Thanks for pointing out those open circles. I was wondering yesterday as well what they mean.



I know this is late, but I think its possible you *might* only be 3dpo. Its hard to say with all the open circles, but you generally don't have drops like that after you ovulate. At least not so quickly after O. Good luck!

[Trishy74]

Greeneyes I just did a search online bc I wasn't sure what those open circled meant. It basically said they are there bc I entered something on my chart which makes those temps somewhat unreliable or I entered sleep deprived for that night which I know I did bc I had broken sleep a couple of nights. Also it said it could produce the open circles if time temp was taken was different. Such as today bc my dog woke me during the night so I slept a bit later and took temp a bit later. I find after I ovulate I have a hard time staying asleep. Thanks for pointing out those open circles. I was wondering yesterday as well what they meant.



I know this is late, but I think its possible you *might* only be 3dpo. Its hard to say with all the open circles, but you generally don't have drops like that after you ovulate. At least not so quickly after O. Good luck!

[Trishy74]

Thank you rainbowflower for viewing my chart. I don't have the nausea yet like I did with my son so quickly so that is def throwing me off. I am very sensitive to hormonal changes. I suffer with bad migraines when my levels fluctuate. I was under the impression I ovulated Sunday into Monday bc Sunday night I had a terrible migraine where my meds didn't even work. I had to double up on them that night. I figured that's prob when the progesterone levels went up and estrogen lowered. I think I'm more sensitive to changes in my progesterone levels than estrogen. I'm def being thrown for a loop here on the chart where I have that huge dip after ovulstion. I read on ff website that the open circles on my chart could be from different time taking temp or sleep deprivation and I know a couple if those days I had broken sleep where I woke and couldn't get back to sleep right away and was tossing and turning. Not sure how much that affects the chart. I'm just hoping my temps stay high. I'm feeling a slight migraine coming on so hoping my progesterone levels aren't dropping. I think I only get the migraine when they go high and not lower. Again, thanks for your help. I'm shocked if I ovulated on Saturday instead of Sunday night like I assumed but I know in the past I've ovulated earlier at times. Rare but it does happen.



I think your OV date is pretty certain based on your chart, and FF has no doubts...
it is actually possible to get preg symptoms at 5dpo - that is the earliest an egg can implant and if you are particularly sensitive to hormone changes the tiny amount of hcg produced might be enough to cause a few small ones...but most "early pregnancy symptoms" are actually just caused by increase in progesterone caused after OV - such as bloating, nausea, etc.

I think the chart looks promising

[atomic sagebrush]

why are circles open???

[atomic sagebrush]

It sounds promising Trishy74. I also think 5 DPO can't produce preg symptoms, just progesterone symptoms. I had a cycle last year that I could promise I was pregnant, had nausea from 2 DPO, enough to make me run to the bathroom, but ended up not being preg at all! I wouldn't read too much into it until 10 DPO. I tried to open your chart but it opens my own FF chart, are you sure that's the right link? Find the share option under the chart and they will provide you with the right link. Good luck!

I agree - one time between DS 2 and DS 3 I had two consecutive months where I felt very very pg (sore BBs, nausea, sensitive to smells, and hot flashes) but we weren't trying and I wasn't pg. I also had "morning sickness" to the point of throwing up, when I began the BCP many moons ago so I know that at least for me, some of those things are hormonal in nature.

[Trishy74]

According to ff website if circles are open it's an indicator that either sleep deprived was checked off or I temped at a different time. I know there were a few nights that I got poor sleep bc I woke during the night and couldn't get bAck to sleep right away so I may have had like 2 hours of solid sleep before temping. I find the week of ovulation I have difficulty either getting to sleep or if my son or dog wakes me during the night I end up staying awake for a while before I can get relaxed to fall asleep. I have OCD and it gets crazy during o week. Lol. However although sleep deprived I did have at least 2 to 3 hours of solid sleep before temping. I find on the weekends I tend to sleep a little later than work days but only maybe an hour if I'm lucky. So that's why there are open circles on my chart.



why are circles open???

[rainbowflower]

it could go either way, and I hope it goes BFP-way for you!


why are circles open???
can be from taking the temp at a different time to normal, alcohol-related, or other factor that might affect temp. Generally it means it's a more ambiguous temp and the solid dots are the most accurate

[atomic sagebrush]

I personally don't believe that people get pregnancy symptoms before they get pos pg tests. There's all kinds of stuff you can read online about people so sure they had symptoms this day or that day but recent studies have shown that women can only accurately pinpoint their date of ovulation using temps and O symptoms about 30% of the time. What I think is that we may be more likely to get pg in months where we have a lot of hormones going on, this makes us more likely to have hormonal symptoms, and then when we fall pg in those months, we remember them vs. all the other months we may have had symptoms but weren't TTC and watching with eagle eyes for anything going on LOL

[atomic sagebrush]

it could go either way, and I hope it goes BFP-way for you!


can be from taking the temp at a different time to normal, alcohol-related, or other factor that might affect temp. Generally it means it's a more ambiguous temp and the solid dots are the most accurate

Thanks for the explanation. of course I do know that already, I was asking why in this particular case her dots were open and whether she had a good level of confidence in those temps. :) I was typing while breastfeeding and so was trying to be concise. I had started on the first page reading posts and had not yet made it to the second page where she explains.

[aidansmum]

Your chart looks very straight forward to me, I would go with the FF interpretation, it looks pretty accurate. And your temps are staying on the high level, which is great! Very promising chart, I am crossing my fingers you get your BFP! Keep us updated!

[atomic sagebrush]

trishy looked again at chart, now if we start to see temps go up, up, up, then v good sign for poss. pg

[Trishy74]

Thanks for viewing again Atomic! Yesterday my temp dropped a bit which made me nervous but this morning I temped a little earlier (like 20 minutes) and it seemed to be higher than yesterday. However, I woke today with a REALLY bad UTI. I had one 2 weeks ago when I ovulated and finished the RX but today it is back with a vengeance! I'm actually thinking I may have a kidney infection b/c I had bad burning pains in my lower back last week and never related it to the UTI. I'm going to a urogoligst today. I was told like a year ago my bladder wasn't fully emptying 2x and went to a urologist and they said all was ok but I have a feeling I'm def having issues with the bladder not emptying in general and then the UTI and now it being like 1,000 times worse. Do you think something like that would raise my temp? I was kind of nervous about that but it's not like I have a fever. I know a normal temp for me is somewhere in the 97's. Thanks again for looking at my chart again. REALLY appreciate it. I'm hoping for a BFP this month but after all the meds I'm going to need to take for the last UTI and the current one, I get nervous. However, I am making dr's aware that am ttc. Also, was thinking of taking cranberry as a preventative for UTI. I belive you are against taking it in 2ww, correct? Is it really so bad to take it at this time? AF should be arriving this weekend or Monday. I purchased Nature's bounty Cranberry (fruit 4200 mg) plus vitamin C . Not sure if this brand is ok or not but I was really looking to take it b/c of the UTI and hoping to prevent them in the future. I'm waiting for my gyno to call me as well b/c I had hormone levels tested on day 21 this month and prolactin levels checked also considering that was a problem for me before conceiving my son. I was planning on asking him about the cranberry too. Also, I raised my folic acid intake to 2mg from 1 mg per day as I was worried about birth defects. I know I read it on here that it's okay to do. Do you recommend I still do that since I am 39 years old? I thought b/c of my age maybe it would help.

Thanks again for ALL of your help. Let's keep our fingers crossed that my temps keep rising and not bc of my UTI!


trishy looked again at chart, now if we start to see temps go up, up, up, then v good sign for poss. pg

[atomic sagebrush]

yes, UTI can raise temp

cran in 2WW can cause miscarriage, stick with cran juice and not supplements. your gynecologist may not even know about it but high doses of vitamin C (which Cranberry, even the ones without added C, have C) are used as a kind of "at home morning after pill" and should be avoided in anything more than dietary amounts.

YES i absolutely recommend increasing folic acid for anyone over 35!!! 2000 mcg is great, be sure you break it into small pieces and take small doses thru the entire day

[Trishy74]

Oh wow, that's crazy how cranberry is being used as morning after pill! I never even knew that. Thanks for telling me. I hate the way cranberry juice tastes..that's why I was going to take the supplement. Any specific cranberry juice that you know of better than another? I really want to try to stay away from the fake ones or the ones that have too much sugar. Do you know any specific brand that you recommend for drinking?

Oh no, I've been taking the 2000 folic acid all at once at bedtime. Is that safe? I didn't know I should be splitting it up throughout the day. I know when we conceived my son, my husband was on 5 mg of folic acid (due to kidney transplant) and I think he broke them up to 2x a day. I had no idea it was unsafe to take both pills at the same time for me before bed. Just wondering, why are you recommending to split the pills up during the day? I'm praying that my temp isn't up due to the UTI. That would stink. :sad:


yes, UTI can raise temp

cran in 2WW can cause miscarriage, stick with cran juice and not supplements. your gynecologist may not even know about it but high doses of vitamin C (which Cranberry, even the ones without added C, have C) are used as a kind of "at home morning after pill" and should be avoided in anything more than dietary amounts.

YES i absolutely recommend increasing folic acid for anyone over 35!!! 2000 mcg is great, be sure you break it into small pieces and take small doses thru the entire day

[atomic sagebrush]

It's Vitamin C that's used as a morning after pill, not cranbery (at least not that I"m aware) but the prob. is that cranberry has Vit. C in it, even the stuff that doesn't have added Vit. C still has it and can act the same way to induce early miscarraige.

The ones that are supposed to be best are the 100% juice crans, but they are not super tasty.

It's not unsafe to take them all at once, it's that your body can only use so much folic at one time, and since folic acid is water soluble, it's not stored and your body just pees out the rest. So to be sure your body has an ample supply thru the entire day, we take little doses all day long. :)

[Trishy74]

Got it on the vitamin C. That's really scary! Who would ever think that??

As for the folic acid. Thanks for the info. I'm going to split it during the day.

Just wondering if you would know, I've been temping at night as well (but not recording it). Why is it that before I go to sleep (after laying down for like 15 min and relaxing), is my body temperature lower than the morning? It's so strange! I thought at night our body temps rise? I'm speaking of like 10pm. I took my temp last night and it was 97.5 and then this morning when I woke (which wasn't the best sleep last night), I was 98.44. I would have thought that due to being awake all day, the body temp would be higher at night than the morning.

BTW, update on my UTI. Dr. thinks my uterus is leaning on my bladder. He wants me to go for a CT scan but I can't go until I know if AF is coming or not. I'm gong to wait it out over this weekend b/c AF is due Sun or Mon. And he did prescribe Macrobid but only a 5 day supply b/c he's worried about pregnancy, if it's occurred. Also, thinks I may have passed kidney stone last week b/c of really bad burning and lower back pain a few days after Ovulation. So it seems I have so much going on at once! I'm still waiting for my gyno to call b/c I have so many questions b/c he would be the one to fix uterus from leaning on bladder but I was told if I want to have more kids, I need to wait. i'm hoping during another C section, that could be fixed. Oy vey! My temp went up again this morning but like I said, I had bad sleep through the 2nd half of the night. So I'm not getting my hopes up just yet.


It's Vitamin C that's used as a morning after pill, not cranbery (at least not that I"m aware) but the prob. is that cranberry has Vit. C in it, even the stuff that doesn't have added Vit. C still has it and can act the same way to induce early miscarraige.

The ones that are supposed to be best are the 100% juice crans, but they are not super tasty.

It's not unsafe to take them all at once, it's that your body can only use so much folic at one time, and since folic acid is water soluble, it's not stored and your body just pees out the rest. So to be sure your body has an ample supply thru the entire day, we take little doses all day long. :)

[The Anchor]

Your chart looks good...very promising! GL!

[Trishy74]

Thank you!


Your chart looks good...very promising! GL!

[atomic sagebrush]

It's not even that high a dose of Vit C ladies so please be careful.

It's normal for your temp to drop right before bedtime. Your metabolism is slowing down for sleep.

Ah yes I too have the many joys of the uterus/bladder dynamic duo LOL. Proper name is tipped or retroverted uterus and if you google it with "bladder" you will see this is not unusual in any way. Happens to a lot of us. I was able to have my last 3 pregnancies with that going on and invariably it flips into position at the end of the first trimester. There are some yoga poses that can help it happen sooner and those will come up in the google search. i would be loathe to hold off TTC at 39 without a second opinion to see if it's really necessary to do so.

[Trishy74]

I swear, I don't know you personally, but really you are such a help and I feel like I know you! LOL. I really appreciate all the time you put in to answering all of my questions.

Since my post, I FINALLY got to speak with my gyno. First I asked about cranberry pills and he said it was okay to take them and no worries about pregnancy, etc. So I opened the bottle only to see that they contain 40 mg of vitamin c but that is for 2 pills. Hence, I only took 1 and probably will only take 1 if I am preggers if not, I will take 2 pills until 2ww and then take 1 pill during the 2ww. Do you think that is safe to do (wean down like that)?

Then I told him about what the urologist said about my uterus leaning against my bladder. My gyno's exact words were: What is your urologist name? I tell him, He says, next time you see Dr. (urologist) tell Dr. (gynecologist) said to go fly a kite b/c he doesn't know what he is talking about. My gyno said just about every woman has a uterus that is leaning or near her bladder. He said it is nothing to be concerned with. That made me feel so much better! Also, my prolactin level which was causing me an issue last time I was trying to conceive came back normal. So, he told me to try for another few months and if nothing, then come into his office to talk about other options. I'm so relieved that the uterus leaning on the bladder thing is nothing! I was really nervous there!

Funny that you say about the retroverted uterus. When I went for an Histiopyngiagram 3 years ago, the dr. noted on the study that I had a retroverted uterus..but when I asked my gyno he said no, the dr. must have read the films upside down. So now i'm wondering if I really do have a retroverted uterus since this is the second time i'm hearing about it. I am def going to ask next time I see my obgyn. I'm just relieved that the uterus/bladder thing is nothing to worry about. now to just try to concentrate on what is causing me such bad lower back burning pains once in a while. I def think it has something to do with my kidneys. Hoping nothing too crazy. I still do want to keep trying to conceive though b/c of my age. I just feel like I cannot put that on hold right now. If I was in my mid 30's, I'd say I can put it on hold but b/c I'm almost 40, I just can't.

So if I take the cranberry pills which contain per pill:

4200 mg cranberry concentrate (vaccinium macrocarpon (fruit; fresh cranberries)
20 mg of vitamin C
3 IU of Vitamin E

Do you think that amount of vitamin C is safe? Directions say to take double the amount but right now b/c I'm in 2ww, I was planning on taking 1 pill and if I find I'm not preggers, then doubling the dose (like bottle says to do) until next ovulation which would cut down to 1 pill again. I just really want to take this stuff b/c of this UTI I can't seem to get rid of. Also, it would be a nice addition to a sway although I wasn't planning on using it to begin with but I feel now that I am being told to take it for UTI, it may have another benefit.

Anyway, I can't thank you enough for all of your help. Let's keep our fingers crossed that AF doesn't show this weekend or Monday.



It's not even that high a dose of Vit C ladies so please be careful.

It's normal for your temp to drop right before bedtime. Your metabolism is slowing down for sleep.

Ah yes I too have the many joys of the uterus/bladder dynamic duo LOL. Proper name is tipped or retroverted uterus and if you google it with "bladder" you will see this is not unusual in any way. Happens to a lot of us. I was able to have my last 3 pregnancies with that going on and invariably it flips into position at the end of the first trimester. There are some yoga poses that can help it happen sooner and those will come up in the google search. i would be loathe to hold off TTC at 39 without a second opinion to see if it's really necessary to do so.

[Trishy74]

Looks like this month wasn't my month as AF arrived this morning. Atomic, I notice my lh surge lasts like 48 hours and it seems I ovulate within 24 hours from last surge so on third day per se. I've tried attempting 2 days prior to positive opk, then at positive opk, then 2 times the following day. As much as I want to try one attempt for girl I'm scared it won't work since I'm doing more attempts and its not working. I know you said last month do a 2 to 4 day wait and then bd which I did the 2 day and it didn't work this month and I know I ovulated bc blood results of progesterone came back good. I'm so scared hubby's sperm is not good bc of our age and when I got preggo with our son dr had my husband taking folic acid and vitamin d every day bc of kidney transplant and they discontinued that about a year ago. I'm wondering if that helped his sperm quality last time we conceived. I'm just wondering if you have any advice or input in my next attempt for November. Also do you know if vitamin d or folic acid affects sperm quality and quantity? Also he took antibiotics the months of June and July and beginning of August for a cold and C. difficile. I would think by now his sperm would be back to normal. Any info is appreciated. Thank you.

[atomic sagebrush]

CRAP I missed this, always bump a post if I don't get back to you within a reasonable time. My intent is to answer everything that needs answerin' and if I didn't, something went wrong (usually I started to answer and then got interrupted with children and then the post got buried, happens more often with longer posts)

Folic and Vit. D can help boost sperm health, while I don't normally recommend them for pink swayers I think in your guys' case it would def. be worth trying.

So what my advice would be for you or anyone needing to pull the trigger due to age, is to switch to SMEP. It's not ideal and it may be blue friendly for some people, but it's much better odds of conception.

[atomic sagebrush]

first post:

Well thanks but since I dropped the ball big time on this post I do want to apologize again.

Re dr. and cranberry, the unfortunate truth about doctors is that they don't always know especially where herbs are concerned. I personally don't recommend anything more than cranberry juice in the 2ww. I know you were taking them for a legit reason (UTI and NOT swaying) but just want to reiterate for anyone who read only the bit about the cranberry, I do NOT think cranberry is safe during pregnancy in the amounts that you need to take for gender swaying (dietary amounts ok) and I vastly prefer you guys do aspirin instead because you can wean off gradually rather thn having to stop cold turkey. I wouldn't have you take them and instead eat some garlic and drink a little more water and it will work itself out.

agree 110% with your gyno about bladders and uteri. Don't even worry about it! RE retroverted uterus, sometimes things can move around in there so who even knows. I would not honestly worry about it one iota anyway, it's really just a variation of normal.

again, I'm really sorry that I missed answering this when it came around, hopefully you're feeling better and this is all just water (or cran juice) under the bridge anyway.

[Trishy74]

Atomic! I just saw ur reply now. I stopped coming in the site bc my son keeps getting 105 fevers and I was taking him to do many drs to figure out what is wrong. He was hospitalized back on September with fevers for 10 days and tonsils size of an adults. I now have a tonsillectomy scheduled for December. However I found a new urologist bc this uti kept coming back and the last urologist was trying to tell me its stones. So I finally went to a dr who knows what she's doing. Lol. Turns out my blAdder was spasming. I also found crystal light triggers it as well as days that I don't drink much water. Thank you so much for responding. I happened to come on the site today bc ovulation is approaching this week. I took off from ttc last month at the drs request bc she gave me rx abd she wanted me to start fresh in hopes that bladder would stop spasming. It did up until after my period a few days ago. I'm noticing that after my period abd close to ovulation the spasms start. I'm wondering if hormones play a role somehow with relaxing the bladder. But I did have crystal light a few days ago so I'm relating the spasms more to that and stress.

I did start my husband on 2000 units of vitamin d every other day and folic acid. When we conceived ds, he was on 5 mg of folic acid throughout the day. I believe the same with his oscal plus d. I have him only taking the vitamin d once every other day and 1 mg folic acid every day. so he is still on a lot less than when we conceived ds. I plan on attempting again this month. I just know this bladder spasm thing is going to get worse abd I'm sure ill be put back onto the med urelle. Sux bc I don't want up be on meds while preggo but she said i may have no choice! Darn bladder! Can you tell me what smep means? I believe u recommended I do this in one of ur posts in this thread but I don't know the meaning. Sorry. Thanks for replying. Appreciate it. I know ur a busy woman. Thanks again.

[The Anchor]

SMEP is "Sperm Meets Egg Plan":

Sperm Meets Egg Plan (http://www.pregnancyloss.info/sperm_meets_egg_plan.htm)

[atomic sagebrush]

replied about bladder in other thread