7 follicles on Day 8--is there any hope?

[Keshet]

I'm on day 8 of stims of cycle #2. I'm 41. AFC was 14. My labs were ok. Doing Micro-flare protocol with omnitrope and dhea. There are 7 follicles growing and a whole bunch of small ones lagging behind. The doctor does not think the others will catch up. The doctor wants to trigger tomorrow or the next day. I guess I'm feeling discouraged. In my first cycle, which was 2 years ago, I had 22 eggs retrieved and only 1 normal embryo resulted, which ended up not surviving the thaw. Now with only 7, I'm assuming the worst. Has anyone had good luck with 7 follicles at this stage? Is there any hope for me?


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[ever hopeful]

I only had 4 first cycle (i was 44) and still got 1xx and a BFP but sadly miscarried at 9 weeks. With fewer follicles u may get better quality and remember it only takes 1 and some luck with gender split. Good luck.xx

[kpmum]

There is hope! I only had 8 follicles and in the end only had 11 collected. 10 were mature, 9 fertilised and 8 made it to biopsy. I was lucky to end up with 1XY and 4XX. U just never know. It someone's comes down to chance. Quality is a factor. When is ur next scan?

[Keshet]

I go back in today. They will trigger me okay or tomorrow. I just wonder if there is any hope for the small follicles to catch up. I have some around 8 or 9. My largest is about 18. Should I insist that they wait?


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[Keshet]

"Okay" auto corrected. Was supposed to say "today".


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[nuthinbutpink]

No the small ones will not make it at this point. They need to be approaching 20mm. You just need one good one. I don't think your response is atypical for someone in their 40's. We've had people in their 30's get fewer than 10 plenty of times. Your biggest issue is really finding a normal. There's always a chance.

[LittleTwinStars]

I only had 5 follicles my first time but it resulted in a pair of twins so yes it's not the quantity but quality.

[Keshet]

Thank you for the encouraging responses. Did those of you who responded also go through day 5 PGD with freezing of embryos?


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[Keshet]

The trigger is tonight. I have about 5 large ones. Possible for 2 more to catch up.


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[rpascual]

How did ER go?

[Keshet]

ER was okay. They retrieved 17 eggs. 13 fertilized. Today is Day 3. Just got a call from the lab that only 4 are still growing well. They said that I should expect 1/3 to make it to day 5. I'm pretty crushed. The likelihood of this working seems very very low.

[luckyfourleafclover]

keep positive...all you need is 1 x

[nuthinbutpink]

Are you using fish? I wish it was easier. I'm sorry. You're still in it though!!

[Keshet]

I'm using PGD. Waiting for my Day 5 report in a couple of hours.


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[nuthinbutpink]

I'm using PGD. Waiting for my Day 5 report in a couple of hours.


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What kind of PGD? FISH, aCGH? Natera? Day 5 biopsy?

Can I make this a sticky for you? Where are you cycling?

[Keshet]

Natera. I have 2 fair grade compacting morulas as of this morning. Is there any hope left?

I'm cycling at Pacific Fertility Center. What does making it sticky mean?


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[Keshet]

And it is Day 5.


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[nuthinbutpink]

Well, they need to make it to blast stage in order for them to make it to biopsy. They can give them until day 6 to become blasts.

[nuthinbutpink]

The current cyclers post in the Member forum for the most part. Here is a link to the Sticky Starter form. http://genderdreaming.com/forum/ht-family-balancing-info-current-cycles/22502-sticky-starter-information.html

If you fill that out, I can move this post to the member section. It is located here-
http://genderdreaming.com/forum/ht-family-balancing-info-current-cycles/

[Keshet]

Yes, the lab finally called. I actually have 4 compacting morulas-2 are fair grade and 2 are poor grade. They are waiting until Day 6. It all sounds so bleak. For my future reference, are there alternative testing methods for testing embryos when unable to get them to Day 5 blasts? I think that the last time that I did this, they waited until Day 6.


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[nuthinbutpink]

You can use FISH on day 3. a 5-probe will test for gender and 13,18,21. So, there are many chromosomes that are left out but you will learn gender.

I'm sorry it isn't looking good. I hope you have a couple that make it.

[Keshet]

Is it too late to do FISH now?

[nuthinbutpink]

Is it too late to do FISH now?

Yes. After day 3, the cells begin to merge so they cannot be used for analysis. You are at the point where you must wait for the outer layer to be produced so they can extract cells from it.

[nuthinbutpink]

Is it too late to do FISH now?

Yes. After day 3, the cells begin to merge so they cannot be used for analysis. You are at the point where you must wait for the outer layer to be produced so they can extract cells from it.

[Keshet]

No news yet today. What is the likelihood of compacting morulas to turn to blasts on day 6? Has anyone had this happen?

[nuthinbutpink]

If they were compacting, that is a great sign and close to becoming blasts. Yes, we have seen embryos lag behind. Day 4 is when they are typically morulas and then day 5 blasts so if yours were day 5 morulas, by day 6 they can definitely keep going to become blasts on day 6.

Here is something from Dr Wegner the embryologist on here-

http://genderdreaming.com/forum/research-interesting-articles/716-embryo-stages-progression-outcomes.html

[Keshet]

The embryologist called. I got 1 grade 2 blast!!! Biopsy was taken and shipped to Natera. The 3 other compacting morulas from yesterday have not progressed.

[nuthinbutpink]

You're still in it! FX for gender!

[Keshet]

Thank you so much for your support. This has been so hard so far. You have been tremendously helpful in calming me down.

[Keshet]

Just wanted to update you all, that my one blast was abnormal. Doctor doesn't feel hopeful that another cycle would be any better. I keep racking my brain to think of what else I can do as it's so hard to give up on this dream. Trying naturally? Trying yet another cycle? But, I think it may be game over.

[nuthinbutpink]

I'm sorry. Where did you cycle? How old are you?

[Keshet]

I'm 41.

[Keshet]

Cycle was at PFC

[nuthinbutpink]

Unfortunately, I think the age thing is what is affecting you the most. Once we are in your 40's, IVF for gender selection is usually going to take a few tries(so it's not just "you"). If you look in the Member section, of those that have tried it, some have opted to use donor eggs to increase their chances. We do have a couple of women in their 40's that have found success with their own eggs, but the number of cycles required to get there was quite high.

You could try a IVF/Microsort(no PGD) cycle in Mexico. The sort would increase your odds but you don't have to put your embryos through PGD. No guarantee of course but it should increase your odds of gender.

[Keshet]

Can you recommend a good clinic that does microsort?

[nuthinbutpink]

You'd have to go to Mexico. The Microsort website has info. Alternatively, you can send DH to MS Mexico and ship a sorted sample back IF and I mean IF your clinic will accept it.

[Keshet]

I'm seeking your advice ladies.

My RE said that she is willing to try one last time. Using an antagonist protocol since that was my best protocol so far. She would also add ganirelix, I think at the beginning to try to get the follicles to grow more evenly. She also said that it is very likely that this may not work. She is willing to let me start swimming and then cancel if we are not seeing 10 follicles that are over size 14. So, I could cancel if the cycle does not look promising. I would need to wait 3 months to start the cycle.

My other option would be to try naturally and sway.

On the one hand I like the idea that with IVF with PGD, I would be sure about the gender and about the health of the embryo. On the other hand, I'm tired of the stress and expense of IVF. It seems highly unlikely that it would work for me. If I go natural, what would the experience be like at this age (41). I've always gotten pregnant right away with no problems when I was younger. Since my IVF embryos seem to be mostly aneuploid at my current age, if I try naturally, does it mean that I would keep miscarrying? When do those miscarriages occur? It seems like, if I go the natural route, it could be just as hard and take even longer to get pregnant. I wonder also about the cost associated with prenatal testing that might not be covered by insurance. How much would the early tests cost? Finally, while my preference is a girl, I would be happy with a boy too. I just want a healthy child at this point.

I'd love to hear your advice. Also, while I am still on the fence about which path to take, is there anything I can do to prepare my body for a sway and/or IVF so that I can keep my options open for both? Diet? Supplements? DHEA? Can I work on both at the same time?

Thanks!


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[nuthinbutpink]

Well, that's two totally different paths. Why not consult with another doctor first. He/she will have the benefit of your past cycle history and may have another suggestion. I think 10 eggs is a high hurdle too.

Many girls have their DH take olive leaf extract and vitamin C. We have had some decent results in HT with that combo for DH when trying for a girl. Might sway some for him.

For you, DHEA is to help with quality and quantity but I would ask your doctor first. If I were you, I would be on it. Over 40, IVF is very hard and bound to take a few attempts but many of us have had success when using DHEA. You would not want to take it if you decide to sway and your natural fertility has absolutely nothing to do with what happens in IVF. Should you sway, you'd likely fall pregnant the first month trying.

I always say get a second opinion. Dr Potter with HRC is close to you and many girls on here use him. You may like what he has to say better. I highly suggest you check out the Private, Dream Member HT forums- you are a Dream Member so consults with Dr Potter are free and you get $1,000 off your cycle when you book the consult through this site. The link to the form is in the member section.

DHEA is definitely worth asking about though.

[ocean]

Personally I would try a new dr, see if you get a different tact. Including testing at 3 days. If you really are ok with either gender - and not just trying to convince yourself to justify the sway, as so many women on here with all-same-gender children seem to feel afterward...then sure try swaying. Expect you will have your 4th boy and if that thought makes you happy/excited, definitely go for it. But I found multiple miscarriages (both before 10 weeks with genetic issues) to be very emotional and depression-inducing (for me) whereas at least with HT you might get the sad outcomes yes, but your body isn't the starting testing ground. And you can freely dream that if it works, it WILL be your DG. Which, when I'm honest with myself, is why I'm doing this. Not for another child.

HT's whole purpose is to get people pregnant who are having trouble, but OHW's are rare at late ages. I've gone in expecting 3 cycles. (Big sigh).

[tinksmagic]

I'm sorry this cycle did not go as you had hoped. I can personally tell you from experience that getting healthy (mentally and physically) is my best advice. And I do NOT mean that in a condescending way. I miscarried my PGD boy twins last year. I spent from March '12 to July '13 taking supplements (including dhea), juicing vegetables, exercising, and eating only whole foods. By July '13 my fsh (at age 42) was the lowest it's ever been (6.3!!!). I slacked off on my supplements and exercising and let my RE screw up in October causing my fsh to sky rocket to 12.9!!! (damn Clomid challenge!). I'm back to doing everything I did leading up to July. We're cycling starting this month (finally) for a transfer in Feb. We're using Natera (finally!!!). And I'm on 150mg dhea a day (per my RE).
Don't give up hope, just take a few weeks, regroup, and set your mind to it. It can be discouraging, I know, but positive results are in anyone's future, you just need to make it so.