To circumsize or not to circumsize????

[Roonarpia]

I have never had to think about this before, obviously, and I didn't think the decision would be so hard!?!? Please weigh in on what you think. I know the risks of the procedure and I have no religious reason to do it so please tell me your opinions :think:

[purplepoet20]

Both my boys have had it done... I watched because I was afraid of the Dr accidently cutting it off. But we decided to have it done for several reasons. My Grandpa was Jewish and he believed it should be done for religious reasons. And my hubby and family have had it done and because the men in his family shower together while on vacation and are a open family we decided to make sure all the men looked the same.

If you don't have it done it is not that hard to care for it... 1st year just wipe baby like any other baby. After 1st year you do have to pull the skin down to clean inside, but by 3-5 a child can learn to do this on their own in the bath. Some people say uncirc boys get more infections but I think it is from the lack of cleaning. My uncle was not circ as a baby and had fertility issues and in adulthood had it done and within 6mths got his wife pregnant after 15 years of trying.

If you do have it don... only have the Mogen Clamp or the Bell Clamp/Ring they are the safest. Never ever let them use a lazer or freehand knife. The ring takes longer and I don't like how long you have to watch it (my lil bro had one and it took 2wks), looks infected and gross until it is finally done. I chose the Mogen Clamp because of less accidents and it was fairly fast... 15 mins for it to be done, 2 days before it looked healed, no infections or bleeding. All I did was reapply a vasiline gauze with every diaper change, Dr said only a few times a day but I didn't want any infections.

Most people believe a child should be left intacted but other say a boy should look like daddy. There is a rise in uncirc boys but still most are circ. Some kids are made fun of in High School for not being circ but very few boys are naked in school these days because of bullying, butit is because of who is bigger and whatever. The schools in AZ have banned boys from removing their underwear and showers are now seperated.

[iyamaryam]

Oh hun, I was just reading up webmd about this ysdy. I will do it cos of culture, religion and lifestyle. My DH, father n bros are circ n it's just what we are used to. I feel it's a personal decision though. Before I came to the states, I never even knew people had a choice about doing it or not. GL with what you decide.

[Roonarpia]

Purple, thanks for the reply! That was helpful information for sure, I had no idea there was more than one way to circumcise, really good to know! I guess my big thing is: why cut something off of a penis for no reason (unless you are Jewish of course). My DH is circumcised but I know of a lot of men who are not. Uhhh, why is this so hard!??! I don't think I would have given it another thought but my BFF's baby boy had issues long after his was done and it really bothered me. His grew together and they would have to pull really hard on it to get it back...ICK...poor baby! Any other opinions???

[rainbowflower]

my DH is too for medical reasons (TBH we'd have struggled to conceive without this I think!), if a future checkup reveals our son has a similar thing we'll get it done while he's younger rather than put him through that as an adult like my DH had to go through!

if not, we won't get it done

[BabyCakes]

Although is completely a personal decision. I really feel like its not necessary. In Europe, the general feeling is that if its not part of religious tradition, then its not done. http://www.circumstitions.com/reasonsnotto.html

I perfectly understand the choice either way and asked many friends and family before making up my mind for my son so I know how it feels to just want your son to fit in and yet not put them through any unjustified discomfort.

GL

[purplepoet20]

Forgot to mention.... when it is done on infants they are awake, arms wrapped in receiving blanket, legs and waist straped to a little board, mother or nurse gives the baby sugar water, the area is numbed but still a lot of crying starts as soon as baby is strapped. I did give my sons Tylenol (no Motrin because it thins the blood) an hour before and right after. It was very painful to watch your baby screaming and not being able to hold them during, only touching the head. My hubby did get very sick with DS1 and he was looking at the wall ten feet behind the Dr, Hubby left the room and when it was done he came back in crying and wouldn't let our son go for a very long time.... so leave hubby at home with ice cream and beer!

Sometimes I did question whether we really needed to do it but now that they are older I am happy by the desicion. They have never had any infections, they don't have to do anything special in the shower to clean, and aiming on the potty is easier... My nephew was not circ and he is 4 now. He has had 5 infections and one turned really ugly and he was hospitalized.

There are pictures online of the Mogen clamp and other clamps being used, some are pictures of adult men so wait until hubby and kids are out of the room. Even though it may be hard on you I strongly req researching and studying the pictures, and being in the room so you can watch and make sure all is done right. Call Dr's for pricing or insurance coverage (here it is done at the peds office and we paid out of pocket $250 other peds were going to charge $500). As soon as it is done and the diaper is on nurse and sing to your baby so they can rest and feel safe again. When the circ is done away from you it can take up to 30-60 mins before you get your baby back and they will be crying the whole time for you.

I chose the Mogen Clamp because it doesn't remove to much skin. And later in life the skin that is left looks normal for the erection.... yes I was thinking about how my boys would look to a future partner. Other clamps and freehand tends to remove to much skin making it very tight and uncomfortable for the erection. I did see one website that some kids had to go in and have more skin removed at 2 years old because the Drs thought there was to much skin left on but it is not nessecery because if 1/8-1/4 of an inch is removed then it is perfect anymore then 1/2 or an inch is to much.

[purplepoet20]

Here are some good websites... some of these clamps are no longer used

http://www.circumcisionquotes.com/methods.html

http://www.circumcisionquotes.com/rdr5.html <-- Mogen Clamp infant pictures

http://www.cirp.org/library/procedure/plastibell/ <-- Plastic Bell 2nd best but takes up to 10 days for skin to fall off, more infections with this one. Looks scarier for men to see this on a baby.

Gomco Clamp Method scared me because they cut the skin before the clamp is placed and this can increase accidents. The other plastic clamps I don't believe are used everywhere or anymore.

An infant should be circ after 5 days old so they have time to bond with a mom and have a strong nursing conection.

[LolaInLove]

I had a boyfriend once who was not circumcized and he wished he was....it is much less clean, from what he told me. I would have my boy look like Daddy, personally. Another issue....the locker room one. Old bf said he got teased a lot. Uncircumcised is NOT the norm and it may be something stupid he has to deal with that is really no big deal and a lot cleaner. Just my 2 cents!

[purplepoet20]

I don't wont to force anything on anyone but here are sites for people against circ...

http://www.cirp.org/library/hygiene/osborn1/
http://www.fathermag.com/health/circ/uncircumcised/
http://www.mothersagainstcirc.org/
http://www.mothersagainstcirc.org/fleiss.html
http://www.compleatmother.com/circ.htm
http://cirp.org/
http://www.alternamoms.com/circ.html
http://www.circumcision.org/mothers.htm <--- moms who watch circ, yes scary but I was more scared of my boy ending up without a penis.

I did tons of research (from 18wk US until 8mth preg) and asked hubby to read the articles too before we decided. We decided together what we wanted and called many peds Dr's to find the one that would do what we wanted and would let me be their for my baby, som Dr's don't let mom watch.

[3Pink1Blue]

My thought is this, a boy should look like his dad unless dad feels strongly otherwise. My dh is uncut and our son (fx) will be uncut as well.

[3Pink1Blue]

Oh and the cleanliness is based on the man, none of the men in dh's family have had problems. He promised me he'll teach our little guy (again fx) how to care for himself just like I'll teach our daughters about af.

[purplepoet20]

Oh and the cleanliness is based on the man, none of the men in dh's family have had problems. He promised me he'll teach our little guy (again fx) how to care for himself just like I'll teach our daughters about af.

I agree with the men teaching sons because even a boy that is circ they have to learn to be clean. It is the same as teaching a child to wash their hands or brush their teeth.... everything is taught as young kids and practiced over and over until it it done without help or being watched.

[LolaInLove]

Oh and the cleanliness is based on the man, none of the men in dh's family have had problems. He promised me he'll teach our little guy (again fx) how to care for himself just like I'll teach our daughters about af.

That's what I was thinking about I posted that about the ex.....so TOTALLY no offense meant!

[DoulaMama]

Both my boys have had it done... I watched because I was afraid of the Dr accidently cutting it off. But we decided to have it done for several reasons. My Grandpa was Jewish and he believed it should be done for religious reasons. And my hubby and family have had it done and because the men in his family shower together while on vacation and are a open family we decided to make sure all the men looked the same.

If you don't have it done it is not that hard to care for it... 1st year just wipe baby like any other baby. After 1st year you do have to pull the skin down to clean inside, but by 3-5 a child can learn to do this on their own in the bath. Some people say uncirc boys get more infections but I think it is from the lack of cleaning. My uncle was not circ as a baby and had fertility issues and in adulthood had it done and within 6mths got his wife pregnant after 15 years of trying.

If you do have it don... only have the Mogen Clamp or the Bell Clamp/Ring they are the safest. Never ever let them use a lazer or freehand knife. The ring takes longer and I don't like how long you have to watch it (my lil bro had one and it took 2wks), looks infected and gross until it is finally done. I chose the Mogen Clamp because of less accidents and it was fairly fast... 15 mins for it to be done, 2 days before it looked healed, no infections or bleeding. All I did was reapply a vasiline gauze with every diaper change, Dr said only a few times a day but I didn't want any infections.

Most people believe a child should be left intacted but other say a boy should look like daddy. There is a rise in uncirc boys but still most are circ. Some kids are made fun of in High School for not being circ but very few boys are naked in school these days because of bullying, butit is because of who is bigger and whatever. The schools in AZ have banned boys from removing their underwear and showers are now seperated.

The bolded part is not true:) It's actually closer to 50/50 in the States. In Canada it's about 10% circed. I have 3 intact boys...for so many reasons... it would take half the day to list them out. The main one being that is THEIR body, so it is THEIR choice. I wouldn't remove a piece of somebody else without that person saying it is ok, especially if that surgery is purely cosmetic. There are times when a circ is absolutely necessary, but at 5 days old....rarely ever. I can't even understand why we as parents even have to think about this anymore. We don't cut our girls....our boys should have that same protection. Why are little boys being cut for no reason? I just don't get it:(

Before you decide make sure you watch a video of it being done and please be there for your little guy. And for the other arguments....I won't change my girl's labia or breasts to look like mine. Why do penis's have to "match"? My hubby is circed and he would never have his kids go through the same issues that he did from his botched circ. My kids have NEVER had an infection. UTI's are 3 times more common in girls than boys. As for the locker room one- I'm sorry but I would be teasing the guys that are looking at other guys penis's rather than the guy that has an intact one. Soon there will be more uncirced boys and then who will be in the minority? Look into the origins of circ and you will be shocked. It was never intended to be for cleanliness, HIV, UTI's, or because it "looks better". It was done for masturbation. The church(and one particular guy) thought masturbation was evil and so they thought that removing the foreskin would stop men from masturbating. Since then it has been a money making surgery and they(the Dr's and health authorities) have to come up with new so called "benefits" to it. I can guarantee you that there are many men out there with a foreskin and they are very happy to have it. My husband is working very hard to restore himself right now, for his own pleasure and health and for mine. I have researched circ/intactness for 6 years now so if you have any questions please feel free to ask!!

[purplepoet20]

All good points DoulaMama!

Other then the masturbation reason for circ, it is done for religious reasons and culture. Some cultures preform adult circ as a right of passage. Others preform it as a sign or the male being attached to a mate. And some people do it because yes they want it to look nice.

I will say that some friends of my sons are not circ and during the summer time all the boys swim, play, and pee in the bushes... ages are 7,5,4,4,3,3, and 1 no one has really noticed a difference and I would thinka 7 year old would be old enough to notice. NOTE - I don't believe in censorship when it comes to nudity and our group of friends are the same way so our kids swim naked if they choose to. I chose to be this way because my mom forced censorship on us and did not have talks with us even about AF or bras and because of this I had self-esteam issues.

[DoulaMama]

All good points DoulaMama!

Other then the masturbation reason for circ, it is done for religious reasons and culture. Some cultures preform adult circ as a right of passage. Others preform it as a sign or the male being attached to a mate. And some people do it because yes they want it to look nice.

I will say that some friends of my sons are not circ and during the summer time all the boys swim, play, and pee in the bushes... ages are 7,5,4,4,3,3, and 1 no one has really noticed a difference and I would thinka 7 year old would be old enough to notice. NOTE - I don't believe in censorship when it comes to nudity and our group of friends are the same way so our kids swim naked if they choose to. I chose to be this way because my mom forced censorship on us and did not have talks with us even about AF or bras and because of this I had self-esteam issues.

Bolded- I tend to stay away from the religious aspect of circ because it can get ugly real fast on a public discussion board. What I wrote above are my views on routine infant circ done in non-religious households for cosmetic or other reasons. Although, there is a growing number of Jewish people that are deciding against circ for their boys. I'll try to find the site. It's very interesting.

[purplepoet20]

I saw that site once... there are many interesting sites these days from all views. I included the religious and culture part because there are a lot of people on this site who are from all over and have different beliefs.

[My Fabulous Children]

Oh hun, I was just reading up webmd about this ysdy. I will do it cos of culture, religion and lifestyle. My DH n bros are circ n it's just what we are used to. I feel it's a personal decision though before I came to the states, I never even knew people had a choice about doing it or not. GL with what you decide.

SAME HERE!!!!

[iyamaryam]

I included the religious and culture part because there are a lot of people on this site who are from all over and have different beliefs.:agree::)

[Hobbermittens]

We circumcised my son because my husband wanted his son to look like him. Seems like a superficial reason now. I had never thought twice about it; we live in a fairly conservative place, and I think it is the norm here. But my son had a TON of issues with his circumcision; the skin kept trying to re-adhere, and it was so painful for him when I had to pull the skin apart. :( If I had known that ahead of time, I wouldn't have done it!

[TTC5]

My husband is circ, and I won't do it if we have a son, unless it is medically neccessary.

[Roonarpia]

Oh my gosh this is all such amazing information!!! I still am confused though. I feel like it is unnecessary but at the same time I don't know anything else (never been with an intact man) so I guess the thought of having an intact child kind of scares me? Man this is a hard decision. I feel like I am the only one who is struggling this much with the decision...

[TTC5]

I don't think they even do it down here unless it is deemed a medical reason. Because hubby is or isnt done is not a valid reason to many drs down here.

[3boys]

Wow... This has opened my eyes!! In the UK unless there is a medical problem or for religious beliefs this is just not even considered. I have never even thought about it lol... All my boys have their foreskin.

I found this interesting link about the percentages of circumcision for different countries.

http://www.circinfo.net/rates_of_circumcision.html

[purplepoet20]

Wow... This has opened my eyes!! In the UK unless there is a medical problem or for religious beliefs this is just not even considered. I have never even thought about it lol... All my boys have their foreskin.

I found this interesting link about the percentages of circumcision for different countries.

http://www.circinfo.net/rates_of_circumcision.html

That was very interesting... so me being in the US I guess it just seemed a little more normal. The fact that my maternal grandpa and peternal great grandparents were Jewish it just seemed like the thing for us to do.

[purplepoet20]

Oh my gosh this is all such amazing information!!! I still am confused though. I feel like it is unnecessary but at the same time I don't know anything else (never been with an intact man) so I guess the thought of having an intact child kind of scares me? Man this is a hard decision. I feel like I am the only one who is struggling this much with the decision...

I have been with only one intacted man and it just wasn't for me... But I guess if you really think about that is no reason to circ because ours sons will find partners that will like them the way they are!

Take your time deciding because you do still have time. My boys were circ at 8 days old, sometimes I do wish I hadn't and other times I am ok with it. It is a big decision so you and hubby do reading from all view points and decide together. Make a list of pros and cons. Talk about your feelings on it. Stay calm and listen to what the other person has to say. And don't listen to other family (IL's, parents, siblings, or whoever) because in the end the parent is the one that decides.

[Hobbermittens]

Maybe wait until he is born and decide for sure? Honestly, I was all for it, and then when my son was taken away to have it done, I started crying (he was one day old) because I didn't want them cutting into his tiny little body. But afterwards I was fine with our decision, until he started having issues. In hindsight, I wish I had told the doctor not to do it!

[Roonarpia]

My hubby and I talked about it again and neither of us feel like we could stand to be in the room. I literally think my husband will pass out. Is that a good enough reason to say that we will not do it? Or is that a stupid excuse and one of us should man up? (most likely me lol)

[purplepoet20]

If you are not able to be in the room that is fine... if you do have it done maybe be close enough to the room to hold him right away. If you are bfing then nurse him right away.

I choice to be in the room and honestly I understand why some parents don't want to go. As long as you talk to them before and know what method they will be using then that should be fine.

You still have sometime to decide and it should be thought about up until delivery. Find out where it will be done. Some people have it done in the hospital but from people I have talked to it is better to wait until after 5 days old so your baby can nurse and bond well with you. It makes the "after" nurseing better because the baby will calm down faster. Our peds dr did it (a male dr) and he said that a baby recovers faster and without infection if they are 5-7 days old.

Of course I was afraid of infections so I changed the guaze and neospren every 2hrs or every diaper change. Very easy to do prep before to make for a fast diaper change. We also used a larger diaper size to allow for less pressure on the area.

[Roonarpia]

If you are not able to be in the room that is fine... if you do have it done maybe be close enough to the room to hold him right away. If you are bfing then nurse him right away.

I choice to be in the room and honestly I understand why some parents don't want to go. As long as you talk to them before and know what method they will be using then that should be fine.

You still have sometime to decide and it should be thought about up until delivery. Find out where it will be done. Some people have it done in the hospital but from people I have talked to it is better to wait until after 5 days old so your baby can nurse and bond well with you. It makes the "after" nurseing better because the baby will calm down faster. Our peds dr did it (a male dr) and he said that a baby recovers faster and without infection if they are 5-7 days old.

Of course I was afraid of infections so I changed the guaze and neospren every 2hrs or every diaper change. Very easy to do prep before to make for a fast diaper change. We also used a larger diaper size to allow for less pressure on the area.

I will make sure the doc is doing exactly what I want if I were to not be in the room!!! We would wait a week or so for sure, that is what my midwife suggested too. I do have time to decide and I hope by 40 weeks we will have made a decision. LOL!

[nuthinbutpink]

I just want to add that my son was completely numbed for his and did not cry. He nursed fine before and after. The days of no pain medication or the stupid sugar water are over. They actually do numb the area before the procedure. We had no problems and it was done in the hospital, the day after delivery by my OB(a man). If you choose to wait, I would make SURE to ask what pain medication he will be given for the procedure.

[Roonarpia]

I just want to add that my son was completely numbed for his and did not cry. He nursed fine before and after. The days of no pain medication or the stupid sugar water are over. They actually do numb the area before the procedure. We had no problems and it was done in the hospital, the day after delivery by my OB(a man). If you choose to wait, I would make SURE to ask what pain medication he will be given for the procedure.

Will do, thank you!

[Freya]

I just wanted to add one small thing: I spent a few months in the U.S. and was completely surprised by the amount of people who chose circumcision because they were persuaded by their doctors that their son would catch less diseases if they did. As one lady said to me who chose as a family doctor one of the few doctors who was firmly against the procedure: "I'll just teach him how to wear a condom". Apparently a LOT of people thought that somehow their darling wouldn't catch STDs if they performed the procedure. Which is rather shocking - there are no such benefits. Also, in my country, boys are considered easier to deal with than girls "down there". It's not like it's hard. But then, circumcision here is the odd and different option, so we have a different opinion. Hope you make a decision you are happy with!

Oh, and here is a link about circumcision and disease: interesting reading:
http://www.cirp.org/library/disease/STD/

[nuthinbutpink]

I just wanted to add one small thing: I spent a few months in the U.S. and was completely surprised by the amount of people who chose circumcision because they were persuaded by their doctors that their son would catch less diseases if they did. As one lady said to me who chose as a family doctor one of the few doctors who was firmly against the procedure: "I'll just teach him how to wear a condom". Apparently a LOT of people thought that somehow their darling wouldn't catch STD's if they performed the procedure. Which is rather shocking - there are no such benefits. Also, in my country, boys are considered easier to deal with than girls "down there". It's not like it's hard. But then, circumcision here is the odd and different option, so we have different opinion.

It is totally an asthetic thing...none of my doctors said anything other than do you want to have it done. I assure you, Americans are not as ignorant as TV and the media make us out to be!

[Freya]

Sorry if I made it sound like that :worry: , it must just have been the community I visited. Made me worried, though :oops: .

[Flava]

I think like dulamama 3pink and the others who would not do it. And just because you are not going to be in the room he will be , right? I don't know but I would not let anyone cut a piece of my baby for no good reason at all.
But also Im not use to it. Where I growed up we never even heard of this. When I dated none of them was cut. Actually it looks so strange for me.
Anyway I just hope 1 day soon I will be pregnant with a boy and have to think about this.

[purplepoet20]

I just want to add that my son was completely numbed for his and did not cry. He nursed fine before and after. The days of no pain medication or the stupid sugar water are over. They actually do numb the area before the procedure. We had no problems and it was done in the hospital, the day after delivery by my OB(a man). If you choose to wait, I would make SURE to ask what pain medication he will be given for the procedure.

They numbed my boys too but mine cried even with sugar water... I think mostly because of being strapped.

[TTC5]

I just wanted to add one small thing: I spent a few months in the U.S. and was completely surprised by the amount of people who chose circumcision because they were persuaded by their doctors that their son would catch less diseases if they did. As one lady said to me who chose as a family doctor one of the few doctors who was firmly against the procedure: "I'll just teach him how to wear a condom". Apparently a LOT of people thought that somehow their darling wouldn't catch STDs if they performed the procedure. Which is rather shocking - there are no such benefits. Also, in my country, boys are considered easier to deal with than girls "down there". It's not like it's hard. But then, circumcision here is the odd and different option, so we have a different opinion. Hope you make a decision you are happy with!

Oh, and here is a link about circumcision and disease: interesting reading:
http://www.cirp.org/library/disease/STD/

Down here it is the opposite, they say it does not increase infection in the female..

[purplepoet20]

I don't believe to much into the... infections and fertility issues. My Dr asked us because here it is done at the peds office and not the hospital, even a Rabbi does it in a peds office.

Every person will get an infection at some point. They could be very clean people, not so clean, or just unlucky and have bad genes. Children are fast learners and will learn to clean themselves just like any other child. My DS1 can wash his body from head to toe with soap he learned by watching dada or us instructing step by step. DS2 can wash his tummy but he is still learning.

Some people have fert. issues because of many reason and no one can look at an infant and say he needs to be circ because he wont be fertile... unless they were born with some type of visial defect that happens to liek 1 out of a billion boys.

[DoulaMama]

I think it should be mandatory for parents to be in the room while their son is circed. If a person wants their son to undergo a cosmetic surgery without his consent, the least you can do is be there to talk to him and comfort him. He's just spent 9 months being protected in the womb and then he gets taken away from mommy, strapped down, injected with pain meds, and has a piece(a very important piece I might add) of his body removed. I'm so glad that I have an intact body...imagine if it were the other way around and we were taking girl's breast buds off in their teens for cancer prevention or removing the hood of our girls clitoris'. I would ultimately want to have the final say because no matter if I'm 9 days or 90, it's my body, my choice. JMNSHO.

[Roonarpia]

I totally see what you are saying doulamama. That is what is hard for me, I can't imagine doing something to my girl's bodies after birth so why cut foreskin off of your son's penis? Just hard to swallow. Surprisingly though I am still having a hard time making a decision.

[nuthinbutpink]

Doula, I hear you and I do understand that it is a cosmetic thing. I chose to leave the issue up to my husband. He is a man, grew up with boys, men and for me, it was his issue to decide. He knows what it is like (where we live) for kids that were not cir'd and what it meant growing up and as an adult. So, as superficial as it sounds(and it is not a lack of education- we both have higher degrees, LOL) we chose to have him go through the procedure.

I make decisions everyday for my children. Right or wrong, I take everything under consideration and I do make them. Of course I would never want to cause my child pain or do something that cannot be taken back, but it is not something that can be done as an adult(I know it CAN be but let's be real- no grown man would want to do that as an adult) so for cultural reasons, we did it. It doesn't seem to bother my DH and I have never heard a story from someone I know persoanly that has struggled due to his circumcision.

[ThinkPink]

I completely agree with doula! Thankfully, this is isn’t even an issue in the UK as it is only carried out for medical/religious reasons! I can’t believe that newborn babies are routinely put through a procedure which carries its own risks for purely cosmetic reasons (the proposed health benefits have been completely discredited)! As already pointed out above, circumcistion was originally performed as a punishment for little boys found masturbating. I just dont see how it has a place in modern medicine! The human body is the result of millions of years of evolution, the foreskin has purpose! Your baby is perfect!

Doing it so that sons look like their fathers is in my opinion ludicrous! My dh was circ'd for medical reasons we will simply explain to DS why they are different.
JMHO

[Roonarpia]

Well I am 90% sure we are not going to circumcise. There is just no reason to, I just hope it is not something our son wishes we had done. :)

[purplepoet20]

Well I am 90% sure we are not going to circumcise. There is just no reason to, I just hope it is not something our son wishes we had done. :)

There are plenty of websites that help parents explain to there kids about why they are different... and even groups for parents of intacted boyss.

[Roonarpia]

There are plenty of websites that help parents explain to there kids about why they are different... and even groups for parents of intacted boyss.

Wonderful to know, you are so awesome purple thank you!

[DoulaMama]

Well I am 90% sure we are not going to circumcise. There is just no reason to, I just hope it is not something our son wishes we had done. :)

:D I have 10+ men in my family(all from the UK) and after talking to each and every one of them about being intact.....(yes, slightly embarrassing but I needed to talk to intact men...not circed ones) I felt very comfortable about my kids future as an intact man. Not one of them had any issues at all...EVER. They were all shocked that I was even considering it!
Anyway, rule number 1: make sure you never retract your son's foreskin. Make sure every person that will ever change his bum knows not to retract- this includes your Dr too.
2. Wipe it like a finger
3. Do not freak out if your kid is not retractable at 2-most kids will be able to by 14 years of age.
4. Find an intact friendly Dr if your child does have any issues. The foreskin is important and just chopping it off at the first sign of a problem is not the way to go. In the UK for every 1000 men that are intact, only 10 will medically need a circ and that stat is because the Dr's know it's an important part of a man's sexual health

The reason why some intact men have issues later in life is BECAUSE someone retracted them before they were ready. The foreskin is attached to the glans(which when circing is kinda like removing a fingernail from the nail bed...ouch). Early retraction causes scarring and adhesions issues later in life.

You don't have to worry about cleaning inside until the boy can actually retract himself(with my boys it started around 2-3 years) and even then they(the child) just gently pull back and swish with water. No harsh soap needed...it's like our vaginal tissue on the glans(head) and when it's protected it "self cleans" itself. Also, I let my babies have access to themselves on a regular basis as this is what helps loosen the attachment to the glans and helps with retraction later on. If I were to have any issues with my intact sons later in life I will make sure that the urologist I see will be pro-intact. I suggest finding an intact friendly Dr as well......as my family Dr tried to retract my 12mos old son! I was shocked! Most Dr's will have zero clue about leaving it alone so you must speak up for your child:)

I would say your son will most likely thank you for leaving his body the way nature intended:)

[Queen-o-Queens]

Roonarpia I am in the same boat... this is the first time it's been an issue, DH is set on having it done, but I just don't want him to have to go through the pain! Depending on the doctor you might not have to be in the room, my friend thought she was going to have to be in the room, but they took him back and brought him back a few minutes later

[Roonarpia]

Roonarpia I am in the same boat... this is the first time it's been an issue, DH is set on having it done, but I just don't want him to have to go through the pain! Depending on the doctor you might not have to be in the room, my friend thought she was going to have to be in the room, but they took him back and brought him back a few minutes later

What do you think you will end up doing Queen?

[purplepoet20]

No dr says you have to be in the room.... I chose it because I wanted my boys to stay boys!

[gossie]

.

[lindi]

Its very tough. I just came from a bris. I do regret having my son circumcised, but at the time after so much research, I was so against it, my DH convinced me to change my mind after a beautiful letter he wrote to our unborn son. I felt family pressure too a bit. At the time I felt like I was doing the right thing, but as time has gone on I do regret it. It is actually one small piece of the puzzle of why I don't want another boy, because I feel we would have to circumcise him too, and I know it would be incredibly traumatic for me now given how my mind has changed.
I guess it's hard to know how you will feel in the future.

[fourwildones]

Both of my boys are not circumcised, (they are 6 and 16 months) even though their father is. I just couldn't imagine cutting a little baby, especially when I heard the AAP (American Academy of Pediatrics) was no longer routinely recommending it. My Dad is a Urologist and was not keen on the idea of my not doing it, but it just seemed so unnecessary. My sister's two boys are also not circumcised (they are 19 and 11) -no one has had an issue with health/cleanliness so far!

[DoulaMama]

http://blogs.sfweekly.com/exhibitionist/2011/06/canadian_activist_loves_his_fo.php

Here's an article written recently. There is some harsh language...just a warning. I think more and more people across the United States and Canada are becoming increasingly aware that circ is just not needed at all, for any reason.
xo

[DoulaMama]

Its very tough. I just came from a bris. I do regret having my son circumcised, but at the time after so much research, I was so against it, my DH convinced me to change my mind after a beautiful letter he wrote to our unborn son. I felt family pressure too a bit. At the time I felt like I was doing the right thing, but as time has gone on I do regret it. It is actually one small piece of the puzzle of why I don't want another boy, because I feel we would have to circumcise him too, and I know it would be incredibly traumatic for me now given how my mind has changed.
I guess it's hard to know how you will feel in the future.

(((HUGS))) I'm sorry Lindi. Maybe, if you're comfortable with it, tell your sons how you feel/felt about it when they're older and hopefully they'll keep their own sons intact:)
xo

[DoulaMama]

Both my boys are circumcised. I really, really regret it.

With the first, we were so undecided. I did my research and could not really come up with a good reason to do it. DH was slightly in favor of it. Right around the time I delivered a study (now refuted) came out about circumcision reducing transmission of STDs. That seemed like a good reason to us, so we went for it.

When we found out that DS2 was another boy, we debated but in the end felt like we "had" to do it again so that he and DS1 would look the same. I know there are people who say this doesn't matter, but I just felt that siblings have enough reasons to make fun of each other/cut each other down without giving them another, very personal, reason.

I had DS2 at home, so his circumcision was not done until he was one week old. Having a week to get to know him beforehand really drove home to me how much it DOES hurt them afterward. With DS1 it was done on day 2, so although he was fussy I had nothing to compare it to. The change in DS2 was just incredibly obvious to us, he cried much much more in the day or 2 after the procedure.

My DH was in the room with him for the procedure and said that he cried only when they gave him the shot to numb the area. However, DH was green and shaky when he came out.

In my area, it is very common for boys to be uncircumcised. In fact, from what I have seen among my friends/the locker room at swim class, we are in the minority for his age group.

I think that everyone should do what is right for their family, but please please PLEASE think long and hard about this issue and make sure you are 100% sure about your decision. I don't think my boys are traumatized or anything and I rarely think about it, but it's definitely something that makes me feel regretful when I do.

(((HUGS))) Mama :HH: Thank you for sharing your story with us. xo

[TTC5]

Don't beat yourself up Lindi xx

[DoulaMama]

http://www.4eric.org/

Wanted to put a link on here of a great site dedicated to getting the truth about circumcision out to the masses. It has tons of info and is well laid out. They look at the studies done and see if there is any truth behind them. There is also a video on the site that every parent should watch if they plan on circing - not for the faint of heart.

[gossie]

.

[glory]

I have 3 boys and they are all circumcised, it was a decision that we made together but mainly because my husband thought it should be done and I know of a few people who had to have it done later on in life. I don't regret it at all, but it should be something that you are happy with.

My sisters boys both had to be done when they were 4 and 6, because of constant infections cause by something actually being wrong (sorry I don't know exactly what), having it done at that age, was not so nice.

We had 2 done with the plastibell method and this was much preferred to the traditional cicumcision by me. My first son didn't cry at all and my third wasn't very unsettled and it didn't last for long. Even though it took up to a week for the plastic to fall off, I didn't notice any discomfort and the always fed well. We were not allowed the plastibell with my second son as he was not deemed healthy enough by the paed, so we had to have to traditional one when he was 6 weeks old, there was a lot of crying and when we took the gauze off 3 days later, there was more crying and pain.

I do know what Lindi was saying about having another boy, when I knew my 3rd was a boy and that he would be circumcised I didn't look forward to it, but having the plastibell make it a lot better for us.

[lindi]

lindi, I felt much the same about another boy. Before we found out the sex of #2, I wanted a girl because I dreaded circumcising again. I also couldn't think of a single boy name I liked as much as my DS1's. I wonder sometimes how much these 2 things contributed to the GD I felt once he was confirmed a boy.

Yes, it surprises me how I felt so strongly against it, and was so easily swayed after understanding my husband's feelings. I really wanted to please my husband, and I felt the beauty of his argument- he is Jewish, and so it has a deeper meaning for him, and a connection to something he is proud of and wanted our son to be connected to, but we made this decision before I met my son, and before I really knew how I would feel later. That is a very real reason I want to avoid another boy. I really really don't want to act against the way I feel now, but I would hurt my first son, I feel, by creating a situation where he would feel something bad was done to him.


I have 3 boys and they are all circumcised, it was a decision that we made together but mainly because my husband thought it should be done and I know of a few people who had to have it done later on in life. I don't regret it at all, but it should be something that you are happy with.

My sisters boys both had to be done when they were 4 and 6, because of constant infections cause by something actually being wrong (sorry I don't know exactly what), having it done at that age, was not so nice.

We had 2 done with the plastibell method and this was much preferred to the traditional cicumcision by me. My first son didn't cry at all and my third wasn't very unsettled and it didn't last for long. Even though it took up to a week for the plastic to fall off, I didn't notice any discomfort and the always fed well. We were not allowed the plastibell with my second son as he was not deemed healthy enough by the paed, so we had to have to traditional one when he was 6 weeks old, there was a lot of crying and when we took the gauze off 3 days later, there was more crying and pain.

I do know what Lindi was saying about having another boy, when I knew my 3rd was a boy and that he would be circumcised I didn't look forward to it, but having the plastibell make it a lot better for us.

I am glad you found something to make it easier!

[Aqua]

Oh my gosh this is all such amazing information!!! I still am confused though. I feel like it is unnecessary but at the same time I don't know anything else (never been with an intact man) so I guess the thought of having an intact child kind of scares me? Man this is a hard decision. I feel like I am the only one who is struggling this much with the decision...

Roon... I am struggling with this descision too. Dh is not for it at all. I am 70% for doing it for cosmetic reasons for potencial partners. but DH does not want to put our baby through it. In his opinion it does not matter, but on the other hand I am the only women he has ever been with. So he has never had to deal with venturing into dating scene etc. I am his first girlfriend. I don't know if I am thinking too much into it, I thought girls prefered uncut for their partners, so I did not want DS to wonder why we left him intact.
he is not for it. Until I am 100% convinced I cannot convince him. So dilemma. 50/50 among our friends kids

[DoulaMama]

Roon... I am struggling with this descision too. Dh is not for it at all. I am 70% for doing it for cosmetic reasons for potencial partners. but DH does not want to put our baby through it. In his opinion it does not matter, but on the other hand I am the only women he has ever been with. So he has never had to deal with venturing into dating scene etc. I am his first girlfriend. I don't know if I am thinking too much into it, I thought girls prefered uncut for their partners, so I did not want DS to wonder why we left him intact.
he is not for it. Until I am 100% convinced I cannot convince him. So dilemma. 50/50 among our friends kids
I've been with both and I can say that for me, intact is by far better than cut. Any woman that judges a man based on what his penis looks like, isn't worth that mans time, IMO. If a man couldn't be with me because my labia/vagina wasn't pretty....I don't think I'd be with that person either. Your son will be in the majority if left intact because the circ rate is dropping by the year.

[XXdreaming]

all 4 of my boys are circumcised, I did not do it for religious reasons, I am christian but dont feel like God requires it anymore, that was a covenant with abraham and now we have a covenant with jesus (wont go into details just why I feel it isnt required anymore lol) I did it for medical reasons, its cleaner, and they get less to zero infections throughout life and I believe it drastically lowers their chance of penis cancer and lets talk about their wives, not that they will not like the way it looks but its healthier for them too, less infections for them, mine were cut with minimal bleeding, you just put lots of vaseline on a gauze so it doesnt stick to diaper and change it every diaper for about 3 to 4 days and thats it, I have heard nightmare stories about it but I dont believe its very common, they were done when they were a day old and were checked often to make sure bleeding was clotting and they told me that it had to be done bleeding before he could leave but I never had an issue with that, the first and maybe second guaze had some blood on it but after that it was fine, GL on whatever you decide :)

[CapricornAquarius]

If I were to have a son, no I wouldnt, dont see the need.

Dd1 :ballerina: Dd2 :giggle: & OMG IM :pregnant:

[3Pink1Blue]

Dh and I sort of had a conversation about this, by sort of I mean DH said no and that was that. Never in our 17yrs together has he laid down the law unconcerned about my feelings but he basically said since I have no penis I have no say lol Don't read this badly, my DH is sweet and kind and we have discussed all other major decisions at length but I have to agree that I won't be asking his opinions about our dd's periods/feminine products with him so this does seem fair. I can't understand penis issues but DH is uncut and has never had any negative reactions to it, he also feels a boy should look like his dad. So Basically no, we will not be circumcising our son.

Not to start a brawl but do not be concerned with cleanliness or infections, either a man is clean or he isn't. A lot of the problems with uncircumcised men are caused by improper care but you wouldn't remove your daughters labia for cleanliness reasons so why remove the foreskin. We teach our daughters to care for their vagina's i.e. wiping front to back and period care. It's just as easy to teach a son to take care of his penis.

Something else to keep in mind if you keep the tip covered it keeps the gland more sensitive therefore increasing sexual pleasure.

Here's a link to web md, it's unbiased info about circumcision.
http://www.webmd.com/sexual-conditions/guide/circumcision

[DoulaMama]

Dh and I sort of had a conversation about this, by sort of I mean DH said no and that was that. Never in our 17yrs together has he laid down the law unconcerned about my feelings but he basically said since I have no penis I have no say lol Don't read this badly, my DH is sweet and kind and we have discussed all other major decisions at length but I have to agree that I won't be asking his opinions about our dd's periods/feminine products with him so this does seem fair. I can't understand penis issues but DH is uncut and has never had any negative reactions to it, he also feels a boy should look like his dad. So Basically no, we will not be circumcising our son.

Not to start a brawl but do not be concerned with cleanliness or infections, either a man is clean or he isn't. A lot of the problems with uncircumcised men are caused by improper care but you wouldn't remove your daughters labia for cleanliness reasons so why remove the foreskin. We teach our daughters to care for their vagina's i.e. wiping front to back and period care. It's just as easy to teach a son to take care of his penis.

Something else to keep in mind if you keep the tip covered it keeps the gland more sensitive therefore increasing sexual pleasure.

Here's a link to web md, it's unbiased info about circumcision.
http://www.webmd.com/sexual-conditions/guide/circumcision

Yay! Yes to all of this! I do feel that even if a man is cut he still has no say over another persons parts. I'm glad my mom didn't operate on my labia to make it look like hers:) Cleaning an intact penis is so very easy! Just wipe like a finger! No retracting until the child can do it himself- usually 5+ years old. It's self cleaning while still adhered to the glans:)

[mommymachine]

All three of my boys are circumcised.

[Flava]

Now I wonder if Aqua and Roonarpia did it or not?

[DoulaMama]

A FANTASTIC write up on this topic:)

http://www.naturalparenting.com.au/flex/circumcision-what-parents-need-to-know/97757/1

[Sunset]

I am so so happy I live in the UK and don't have to think about such decisions! It is very rare to circumsize here and I have never seen a circumsized penis myself and if I did I think I would think that would look very strange! Surgery on babies for cosmetic reasons is just very wrong IMO and i don't think infections and this and that is a valid excuse either because if it truly was better for a man not to have foreskin on his penis then men simply wouldn't be born with foreskin! It's there for a reason, just like we've got labia and eyelids for a reason! but we don't remove labia for cosmetic reasons unless of course you live in some tribes in Africa.

[grasshopper]

I am fairly sure we will be having the procedure done if we end up with a boy...if the decision were only mine to make it wouldn't be happening but my husband feels VERY strongly about any son he has being circumcised.
It is rather uncommon here in Oz nowadays so I will be expecting my husband to take charge in this situation and find the Doctor etc.
I can fully understand why people feel strongly against this, but peole have their reasons for doing things no matter how odd they may appear to others and I am glad this thread hasn't deteriorated into nastiness as I have seen happen with the same topic on other sites.

[glory]

Grasshopper you are in WA right? I can let you know the procedure in Perth :) Will PM you soon! Just jumped on to order pizza lol

[grasshopper]

Yep, in WA...Awesome Glory...thanks. From what I can work out it seems pretty hard to find a Doctor in Perth that does it. DH asked a midwife about finding a Doctor while we were pregnant with DD#1 and was very quickly shut down with a big frown and some clipped comments. Any info would be much appreciated...ta.

[purple sky]

We are Muslim and did it for religious reasons, but I think I would have chose to circ regardless for other reasons. My two oldest had it done in the hospital the day after they were born and healed very quickly with out any problems.I actually don't even think I saw what they (penis) looked like before the circ's. My ds3 had it done at his pediatrician's office a few days after he was born. I remember thinking it looked like an ant eater. Very different than what I was used to seeing. He also healed very quickly without issues. However, My DH was raised Christian is NOT circumcised and wishes his parents did it when he was younger. My step-son who is a year older than my oldest son is also not circumcised and is embarrassed about it. I believe it is a personal decision. I also believe that it's just as wrong to judge and criticize a circumcision as it is to criticize the decision to keep your son intact.

[Cinss]

I don't think i could do it. My DP is uncircumsized so i would think a little boy would like to look the same as his daddy.

[zanacal]

Like Sunset, I live in the UK - and I have to say I had no idea that people routinely did this (except for religious reasons) unless there was a medical reason to do so. I'm actually completely baffled and it's something I would never even consider.

[nuthinbutpink]

Like Sunset, I live in the UK - and I have to say I had no idea that people routinely did this (except for religious reasons) unless there was a medical reason to do so. I'm actually completely baffled and it's something I would never even consider.

Where we live, it is routinely performed. I am not sure any of my friends of families' children are not circumcised as it would not be the norm to be intact. My DH is and I did ask him about it and he responded by asking if I wanted him to be made fun of his whole life. I think it is an unusual accepted practice but I can tell you that doctors do think that there will be less "issues" if you have it done- that is what mine said from their experience. It is not why we did it though. It's because he now looks like his dad and it's really not a big deal at that age. It's not something my DH has ever gone looking for. I do understand why it seems crazy if you are not from here and that is not what you are used to. It just is the norm here and that is why it is done. I am nearly 100% certain that all our family and friends have it done.

[Jamie86]

I had my 1st son circumcised and definitely regret it. He does not look circumcised at all and I've had to take him to several specialists who told me this happens "all the time" with newborn circumcisions and they have to redo them daily. They then told me my son would have to go under general anesthesia and the procedure would be purely cosmetic so I decided not to redo it and I will never have any more boys circumcised and I'm really glad the circumcision rate is dropping in the US. DH had the same thing as DS1 so he does not look circumcised at all and I've never found a single issue with it. I also really don't understand how infant female circumcision can be illegal when it is done for all the same reasons (religion, hygiene, culture, to look like mommy or just it looks "better") and male circumcision is not only legal but widely practiced.

[grasshopper]

I am not trying to defend male circumcision here but I do think it is difficult to compare it the way it is done in western cultures to female circumcision.
Female circumcision is rarely if ever carried out under western conditions so cannot really be compared to male circumcisions carried out under western conditions. If you were comparing the two done as there are under primitive conditions then most definitely both are horrific but still even then there are MAJOR differences between the two.
Female circumcision is generally carried out in cultures where women are considered inferior to men to prevent them from deriving any pleasure from sexual activities. I would say it is rarely if ever done for reasons of hygiene, to look like mum or because it looks better. Also, often the entire clitoris (and sometimes labia) is removed, not just the clitoral hood (also sometimes the girl's vagina is stitched up as well)...the equivalent to this in a male is removal of the penis not just the foreskin. These girls truly are hacked, with whatever instrument can be used, not a surgical procedure.
Honestly I do have a hard time accepting the reasons for male circumcision as well but female circumcision the way it is normally carried out is truly barbaric.

[Cinss]

What grasshopper said about female circ made me feel sick, i can not believe that that is done to those poor baby girls! I had no idea... that is terrible!!!

[Jamie86]

I am not trying to defend male circumcision here but I do think it is difficult to compare it the way it is done in western cultures to female circumcision.
Female circumcision is rarely if ever carried out under western conditions so cannot really be compared to male circumcisions carried out under western conditions. If you were comparing the two done as there are under primitive conditions then most definitely both are horrific but still even then there are MAJOR differences between the two.
Female circumcision is generally carried out in cultures where women are considered inferior to men to prevent them from deriving any pleasure from sexual activities. I would say it is rarely if ever done for reasons of hygiene, to look like mum or because it looks better. Also, often the entire clitoris (and sometimes labia) is removed, not just the clitoral hood (also sometimes the girl's vagina is stitched up as well)...the equivalent to this in a male is removal of the penis not just the foreskin. These girls truly are hacked, with whatever instrument can be used, not a surgical procedure.
Honestly I do have a hard time accepting the reasons for male circumcision as well but female circumcision the way it is normally carried out is truly barbaric.

I really don't want to start some huge debate but that is not the way female circumcision is "often" performed that is actually the most rare form the majority of female circumcision being the removal of the clitoral hood. At least that is the information I found and was taught when I looked for non biased sources with statistics (of course there are areas where the removal of the clitoral hood is the most prominent but as a whole it is now). And the type that would be performed in the US would definitely be the removal of the clitoral hood and in the same conditions male circumcision is performed in (that is why I was saying I don't quite understand the law because there is a law against castrating a child which is comparable to the most severe form of female circumcision but not against male circumcision so theoretically the law could be the same for girls. Not that I would want it to be at all). I know several women who were circumcised and some of them even chose it later in life, they felt it was very normal in their culture (most were from Africa). It was also found that the very minimal health benefits that were shown for male circumcision were also found for female circumcision (of course I mean the more "mild" types of female genital cutting). Also yes it is normally practiced in cultures where women are not valued but that really just makes me evaluate why we practice routine infant circumcision on our males is it really for some other great reason? Not really in my opinion most people I know say "so he won't get made fun of" or "to look like his Dad." Also yes the way the procedure is carried out in these countries is barbaric but so is the way a c-section is performed or really any other procedure (my doula went on a midwifery mission in south america and they performed c-sections with the door wide open and the room was filthy with lawn chair in it the poor woman terrified out of her mind).

I'm not arguing for FGC I'm just saying I think our male children deserve the same respect we give our female children. If we performed any procedure routinely on little girl babies mainly because "it looks better" there would be an huge uproar (and rightly so).

[grasshopper]

Worst part is they are often not babies, but older girls and can remember it...worse still, it can be the mother or grandmother that do it to them...it is the culture and they want to make sure their daughter is desirable for a future husband. Mostly looking out for their daughters best interests even if it is a screwed up practice.
It is worth looking up what Waris Dirie has to say about it all. She is a model, author & activist for human rights from Somalia and had it done to her.

I do have a hard time reconciling that we will be having our own son circumcised if we have one but I knew even before we started having children that my husband wanted his boys to be circumcised, so it is something I have known will happen. It is not only my decision to make but we will do our research. Ugh...not a decision we will have made lightly.

[xokatietatie]

All three of mine were circumcised in the hospital with no complications.

[grasshopper]

Jaimie86 I agree with you and I am not trying to start a huge debate either. I can only go by what I have read about FGC as I don't know anyone personally who has had it done. I am totally naive to the fact that FGC is carried out in western cultures (I have never heard of it being done in Australia) and if you were comparing male/female circumcisions in western society then you are exactly right. There really wouldn't be a load of difference.

It is hard here in Australia to even admit these days that you are considering or have had your son circumcised...it is no longer routine and it is really a very touchy subject ...I know our son will be in the minority.
I am sure I will feel like a real hypocrite when we have it done and I hope we NEVER have cause to regret the decision.
I can understand why you did not redo the procedure for your 1st son...and why you would not have future sons done either.
I really wish this wasn't an issue for us but my DH has always felt so strongly about this for his sons. Kind of a relief that we have had two daughters so far.

[Jamie86]

Yes I definitely 100% disagree with female circumcision of any kind I will look into what she has to say. I was just saying that they can be comparable. I had my 1st son circumcised because DH wanted it done and now we both regret it and did not circumcise DS2 and will not circumcise any future children. But I do know that the way things are today it's is up to the parents of each child I just really wished it wasn't so widely done.

[grasshopper]

LOL...posted at same time.

[Jamie86]

Grasshopper, I understand completely about your DH feeling so strongly as that is how my DH was the first time. It's definitely like every other parenting decision you do the best with what you know/have and hope it all works out for the best and that your kids know you did it all with nothing but love. I live in an area where we are "freaks" for not circumcising but after my research I just felt so strongly about it. Which is why I might have come off as a little abrasive and I'm sorry if so. Although I feel strongly about it I never think less of parents for making the decision to do so as I know most of us are doing our best.

[atomic sagebrush]

i know this is an old thread but wanted to chime in here - my oldest son is circ and the others aren't. We just explained it as a difference like having brown or blue eyes and it was NEVER an issue whatsoever. So for anyone who is nervous because they don't want to circ, but are concerned their sons won't look like their father or older brothers, that's a strategy that worked very well for us.

[purplepoet20]

Just felt like saying...

I told my husband if we have a girl we don't have to worry about circ another boy. He said it's not fair that boys have to go through pain a girls don't. I told him women have to go through pain to produce offspring. And that I will be peircing a girls ears at 8 days so there is some pain for her too.

Circ is a parent decision. Some hate the idea and others think it is normal. In the end the parents should research about it and the different methods (some take to much skin and some dont take enough). It may be best to let the father decide what he wants done because he can "feel" for his son.

[Azuremyst]

its not done here much anymore..i live in the usa but Medicaid doesnt cover it in my state, plus its expensive here and ourhospital advises against it. If it aint broken dont fix it! Id never do it to a baby , my dp had it done but it was 1980 back when America was more cut happy. Those that sa they are in the UK and never have to chose it are lucky but so many American women are so misinformed, however the tide has already turned...thank god!

[Kerribug2004]

All of my boys have had it done, we did it cause my hubby is and we didnt want them to ask question as why hubby looked different then them