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[Juniebjones]

1

[rainbowflower]

I was actually wondering something similar today - perhaps part of being outdoors sways pink because of the vit D from the sun. My folic acid supplement includes calcium and vit D because of the way vit D helps with the calcium absorption... so I'm having a small additional dose of it anyway

[atomic sagebrush]

NO. I beg you, PLEASE DON'T. 1000 IU is NOT a small dose of Vitamin D anyway. It is a big dose.

First of all, cows eat grass. They have four stomachs. They come into heat once a year, usually at the same time of year. You cannot compare an animal that eats grass, with a different digestive tract and different reproductive cycle entirely, with a human being that has evolved as an omnivore for millions of years and has monthly cycles, and draw any kinds of conclusions at all. Let's see some primate studies or even RATS would be preferable to cows because their diets are closer to what humans eat and they haven't been bred for maximum milk production for the last 20,000 years.

Secondly, that is NOT what the Vit-D cow "study" even was. It wasn't even a study per se. In an effort to support their hypothesis, the FGD people went back through some old records from nearby dairies and found that cows that had been given Vit. D injections had more girls than cows who hadn't been given these Vit. D shots. My question is, WHY were those particular cows given Vit. D injections?? Were they sicklier than the rest of the cows? Were they lower in weight? Younger? Older? Who knows, because we are totally relying on secondhand information compiled by people who were looking for evidence to support a particular hypothesis, that was gleaned from records kept by non-scientist people we don't even know, over 30 years ago, before the advent of computers, that may or may not even have been accurate.

Thirdly, ~if~ calcium even sways, we don't know how or via what mechanism. It may very well be the case that calcium intake does totally sway, but that we may not want it to be absorbed into our bones. We may want it floating around NOT absorbed into our bones. That may be how it gets into our CM, when it's not tied up in our bones.

Fourth, until someone can point out some sort of evolutionary advantage as to why sodium/calcium intake would make any difference in gender ratio, and/or explain why countries with the highest dairy intake have more boys and why the nations of the world where most people are lactose intolerant have more girls, I'm going to need some more substantial evidence to go on. Testosterone, blood glucose - those things make SENSE so I can let go that I don't have 50 studies to back them up. Calcium swaying pink does not make sense to me and so I want real evidence from an unbiased source and not people who are making money off of this theory. The only unbiased study (the Oxford study) actually found that calcium = more boys.

I could go on for some time here but I won't. I can't spend hours a day arguing against the French Diet point by point nor should I, because I do think the FGD sways (just for other reasons) All I can say is that I believe with every fiber of my being that Vitamin D sways blue and not just a little, but a lot. I conceived my last son taking 400 IU of Vit D plus cal and mag, and my 1st and 3rd son when I was outdoors for hours a day and eating plenty of dairy to boot. There is NO WAY that Vit. D is any kind of magic girl-producing bullet.

Sorry if I am coming off bitchy, I just REALLY want people to get their DG and I don't think Vit. D is going to help people do that (unless their DG is a BOY.)

[atomic sagebrush]

I was actually wondering something similar today - perhaps part of being outdoors sways pink because of the vit D from the sun. My folic acid supplement includes calcium and vit D because of the way vit D helps with the calcium absorption... so I'm having a small additional dose of it anyway

Being outdoors DOES NOT sway pink. Human and their ancestors lived outdoors as hunter-gatherers for millions of years before civilization. Some humans still live as hunter-gatherers and they have both boys and girls.

[Juniebjones]

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[zanacal]

Hi Atomic - can you expand on the part about the Oxford Study finding that calcium sways boy please? Does the calcium part of a girl sway stem entirely from the FGD and the 'evidence' they provided on the back of that? Where does magnesium come in? I'm starting to wonder about taking any supplements at all!!

[ELP]

I think there was something else interesting aswell?? I think?? it was that you need magnesium to absorb the calcium, so possibly if calcium does sway blue then the original idea of magnesium and calcium swaying pink was actually a double blue if that makes sense? I'll see if I can find what I was reading.

Plus if a diet is low in calcium then the body borrows it from the bones, that definately sounds more along the girl swaying lines doesn't it.

[ELP]

Just a quick bit from somewhere

Factors that improve calcium absorption include adequate amounts of protein, magnesium, phosphorous, and vitamin D. Conditions that reduce calcium absorption include high or excessive intakes of oxalates and phytates, found in foods such as spinach and unleavened whole wheat products. Consumption of alcohol, coffee, sugar, or medications such as diuretics, tetracycline, aluminum containing antacids, or stress can reduce absorption of calcium. Lack of exercise can reduce calcium absorption as well as cause an increase in calcium losses.

In the past 5 years (3 girls) I have avoided the sun(vit D), ate very little magnesium foods, been lazy, stressed and ate alot of sugar, all things which lower calcium, maybe a big factor in my last 3 girls.

[zanacal]

So some of the things which reduce calcium absorption sway pink? Interesting ....

[ELP]

The calcium is really worth looking into, have you read the calcium conundrum stickies?? They're quite long but get the brain thinking, I think they're in the swaying for a girl stickies:agree:

[zanacal]

Several times lol!

[ELP]

Several times lol!:bigsmile::agree:

[atomic sagebrush]

Hi Atomic - can you expand on the part about the Oxford Study finding that calcium sways boy please? Does the calcium part of a girl sway stem entirely from the FGD and the 'evidence' they provided on the back of that? Where does magnesium come in? I'm starting to wonder about taking any supplements at all!!

Ok, the FGD is based on some super old studies done back in the 30's on this species of marine worms whose sex is not even determined by genetics, but by their environment. They HAVE no sex when they're first born and then they all turn into girls unless there's another girl around at which point one of them turns into a boy. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bonellia_viridis http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/0022098183900254 http://www.informaworld.com/smpp/content~db=all~content=a922379078 If you shoot some minerals into their tanks it makes them turn different genders. It makes NO earthly sense at all to extrapolate that to mammals, let alone humans. A couple other researchers did similar tests in a couple different species of worms, one of which is also hermaphroditic like the Bonellia is, and one that has boy and girl EGGS, not boy and girl spermhttp://www.springerlink.com/content/mh3b4152940u13m8/. One other study was done in amphibians but environmental factors have been proven to affect gender ratio in amphibians and reptiles but not in humans. http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0016699589800312 refutes the idea that environment can be extrapolated to humans. It means nothing. NONE of these animals even have the situation where there are male and female sperm determining gender like humans do.

Then some other guy came along (Stolkowski) and decided to study this in other animals (even though, I must point out, he must have had very little understanding of even the most basic biology). The FGD book tries to make it out like there was a study done on the Vit. D, but I have a different book written by someone who actually read Stolkowski's writing, that says they took the records from dairies in the area, and that makes more sense given the wording of the FGD book as well - it says point blank that the info about the births was "obtained". Out of a pool of 968 cows, only 77 cows were even treated with Vitamin D...so if this was some big study, wouldn't they have injected enough of the cows to get a decent size sample? It is pretty obvious that they were collecting the data after the fact to support their hypothesis. 77 is not a large enough sample size to determine anything, and even of these 77 cows, only 49 of them had females anyway and in the untreated cows the gender ratio was 57% boys and 43% girls which is pretty darn close to what the gender ratio is anyway. Vit. D is in no way a magic bullet for pink, among cows or anyone. He does have various studies, some of which are intriguing but I have seen newer studies that debunk them.

The Oxford study I happen to think is one of the most useful studies for swaying, because the researchers weren't even LOOKING for anything having to do with gender ratio, they were studying something else entirely, so there was no outright or subtle instructions given to the mothers that they HAD to follow a particular diet and no reason to lie about what they ate or didn't eat, they simply recorded what they ate. And it was done on 750 people, not on one or two hundred like the FGD studies were. The Oxford study found higher levels of nutrient intake across the boards among moms of boys. ALL nutrients, including calcium. Now it could very well be the case, as one of the authors speculates, that it's at least in part because moms who had boys ate more calories so of course their nutrient intake was greater, but it does seem to indicate that you can eat calcium as a large part of your diet and STILL have more boys (which was my personal experience as well.)

Now the Dutch study has claimed to support the FGD findings but I know for a fact that the Dutch are selling their product to people so I take that with a HUGE grain of salt. I'm not saying they would lie or misrepresent their data but I can def. see how the subjects of the experiment might fudge what they were actually eating so the researchers wouldn't get "mad". They also claim to have blood tests but ANYONE taking calcium supps is going to have higher calcium levels in their blood than someone who doesn't.

All this is kinda academic I know, and I DO think the FGD sways, but it's because the boy diet has more meat and calories and the girl diet is limited in nutrients and lower cal.

I want to see a study done where two groups of people (but I will settle for spider monkeys LOL) eat the exact same diet, same protein, same carbs, same fat, and one group gets cal/mag supps and the other group gets sod/pot supps and if THAT study demonstrates an altered gender ratio than I will start singing a different tune.

[rainbowflower]

Being outdoors DOES NOT sway pink. Human and their ancestors lived outdoors as hunter-gatherers for millions of years before civilization. Some humans still live as hunter-gatherers and they have both boys and girls.
if ions work it sways pink, though? being outdoors is one of the best negative ion things possible
:P

[zanacal]

Wow, you really know your stuff! Thanks so much for taking the time to write it all out.

So, would you personally take a calcium/mag supplement if you were swaying pink? Do you feel it's something which isn't necessary but doesn't do any harm either or do you think it's something which might have a negative effect? Right now I'm wondering about dropping them. I realise that literally everybody swaying for a girl takes them but I am doubtful having read your posts and I've seen enough girl sways which have failed despite mum taking large amounts of calcium/mag that I don't feel I would ever think it would have worked if only I'd taken them. I am eating calcium rich foods as part of my low-everything diet - a little skimmed milk, yogurt and cheese each day.

[zanacal]

Sorry - this post was originally about vitamin D and I've gone off on one about calcium and magnesium!

I'm very sceptical about ions, it's just not something which fits with the way my brain works iykwim. The only things I thought I would do (because they're easy!) are lavender and painting my nails - but now I've read that those things lower testosterone but also increase estrogen so they're only good for the man and not the woman anyway!

[atomic sagebrush]

Wow, you really know your stuff! Thanks so much for taking the time to write it all out.

So, would you personally take a calcium/mag supplement if you were swaying pink? Do you feel it's something which isn't necessary but doesn't do any harm either or do you think it's something which might have a negative effect? Right now I'm wondering about dropping them. I realise that literally everybody swaying for a girl takes them but I am doubtful having read your posts and I've seen enough girl sways which have failed despite mum taking large amounts of calcium/mag that I don't feel I would ever think it would have worked if only I'd taken them. I am eating calcium rich foods as part of my low-everything diet - a little skimmed milk, yogurt and cheese each day.

Hellz to tha no. I have MAJOR regrets that I didn't go with my gut and skip the cal-mag and Vit. D when I swayed pink and ended up with my DS 4...not that I would trade him for the world but I wish I would have stuck to my guns on that one. I got scared!! :/

[atomic sagebrush]

if ions work it sways pink, though? being outdoors is one of the best negative ion things possible
:P

So they say! I worked outside for 5 hours a day when I conceived DS 3 though and it seems pretty dang unlikely when humans either wandered the savannah for a million years or the desert for 40, that just the act of being outside would alter the gender ratio in any way.

Now day length and changing levels of Vit. D on the other hand...that's a different story. ;)

[daydrmbelievr]

Interesting... When I was still nursing DS2 I had a blood test to check my vitamin levels. My D was OFF THE CHARTS. apparently, my body metabolizes D poorly and there was a lot in my prenatal and other supplements. I dropped them and the numbers fell. I have two boys. I was always a vitamin girl until these tests.

[atomic sagebrush]

since this is an old thread let me just update, jjc, Zanacal and I did all go on to get baby girls without cal-mag and Vit. D. :)

[3girl]

I was taking loads of vitamin D when DS2 was conceived. At least 1,000 IU maybe even 2,000? It was an obscene amount because my levels were so low. I had no idea it would sway blue. Now I'm staying far away from it!