Can you guys explain to me

[Zivic-Bubac]

...what is 'unschooling'?

I first met this term here and I *think* I might know what it means, but not sure....
Homeschooling, but no grades or competition or evaluating or....?

[rainbowflower]

I don't think this happens in the UK (that I know of), but my understanding of it is that it's home schooling but without actually making the child study particular subjects/curriculum and letting their interests and curiosity lead their learning

[Zivic-Bubac]

It's not happening here either. Child needs guidance esp in such important thing as education Imo.
If I had a chance, I would homeschool my children, but it's not an option here. I also would LOVE school without grades, but it's science-fiction here :worry:

When you 'unschool', do you deliberately have no structure in your 'lessons' or it has to be individualized or what? :)

[purplepoet20]

Unschooling has different meanings for everyone.... over all no grades/test/comparing/set schdule/labeling. It is a program that allows the child to decide when they are ready to learn something.... readin/math/plants/etc.

Some parents choose it but don't follow the rules 100% and allow the kids to watch tv and play video game all the time. Most of these kids take longer and end up being very behind... in the US the government is getting involved and making home visits to home schooling families to make sure that learning is going on.

Others don't allow anything electronic and fill their house with learning aids like posters and books and also they include outings everyday to the library, muesum, learning type places, and play groups with other homeschooled kids. They try to guide the child to pick something to learn. These parents will sometimes also have year round 24/7 school, a vacation can be used to teach, and no breaks means no rush to fit everything in 9mths and then nothing for the summer break.

And then there are some, like me, who choose a part unschooling... no grades, test, or labeling a child smart or behind. I have a schdule for teaching my kids based on a Waldorf program but it is a loose one. If one child is having a hard time with math I may put it off for a while and reintroduce it in a few months.

UNSCHOOLING over all was started because in the US right now (maybe just where I live) some schools are forcing reading on 3-4 year olds, 5 year olds are doing stuff that I didn't do until 1st or 2nd grade, kids receive anywhere from 30mins-2hrs of homework a night starting in preschool. The 9 year old girl accross the street spends 60-90 minutes everynight doing homework, she is a very start girl and does get great grades, this last year she had to stop Girl Scouts, Youth Bible Study, Karate, and has not been seen play outside at all for the either school year.

[purplepoet20]

Here is one of the websites...

http://www.naturalchild.org/guest/earl_stevens.html

[DoulaMama]

http://www.unschooling.com/

I will be unschooling my kids:) At first, like so many others I thought it was ridiculous! No tests! No homework! No textbooks!! WTH! And then I read a book by an a New York school teacher. It's called Dumbing us Down by John Taylor Gatto. VERY GOOD BOOK. I kept having "ah ha" moments and really stopped to think about the way the school system is set up, why it was set-up in the first place, and what it is we are trying to teach to 95% of our children out there. You would be shocked. So I knew after reading that book that I was going to look into homeschooling. Well, the thing is, there are so many different programs out there I was lost.....so I talked to a few friends about what they were doing in regards to HS and they invited me over on a typical day. It was really amazing:) We were out in the garden learning math-division/addition etc to get the beds set-up for planting...they were learning soil Ph and what that means, they were planting and learning about how things grow. We then went inside and the kids got a book and started reading to each other. Every once in awhile they would come over and ask what a word was, what it meant, etc. Halfway through the book they were interested in seeing what the human heart looked like so we got on the computer and took a look...this is the way that unschooler's typically learn in the early stages. It changes as the kids get older and specific interests(because they explored many avenues/interests and they've found what inspired them....what their passions are) fill their time. A family can travel when they want to, the kids can decide when they are in their teens if they want to complete the testing for University or not. Many kids that do homeschool/unschool are looked at by colleges and university very seriously because they bring something to the table that most conventionally schooled kids don't.

It's something that you have to look at with a different set of eyes. Homeschooling/unschooling is about teaching our kids what they want to learn in addition to the basics, knowing that they can learn something ALL day without changing subjects, having passion for learning, being the teacher for your children and knowing that out of everyone that could teach your kids, you have the greatest amount of love for them. I know it's not for everyone:) I feel blessed that I have the opportunity to do this and although I think I want to homeschool until college or Uni, I'm not 100% sure. I'm just going to take it one year at a time:)

[nuthinbutpink]

Depending on where you live here, some of our school systems are awful. There are some really good public(free) schools for sure but it depends where you live. Sometimes the elementary school(K-5) where you live is great but middle and or High School is terrible. You have to send your child to the school located in your district where I live so if you live in a bad school district, you can choose Private School which can be very expensive(5,000- $20,000 per year for kindergarten) or home school. Obviously, private is not for everyone- most are religious based where I live.

We all want the best for our kids and you choose what's best for them. I would not do well with homeschooling because I don't have the patience for it. We are not limited by what our school teaches though- as a parent, if I see a teaching opportunity in everyday life, I run with it. I LOVE our kids' school they love it and it works for us. We ate fortunate to have access to it though. I like them being pushed academically. We are behind other nations academically now. I also like the fact that they have to learn to cope/deal/mesh with all kinds of personalities everyday in their classes.

Homeschooling is a huge responsibility. I personally dislike the term 'unschooling' because it makes it sound like the kids are uneducated. I would not choose to use that term.

[Flava]

I still don't really get this...so the kids don't have to do any test? But then how do you prove they did learned?
Like you say they decide if they want to complete the testing for University or not.What if they don't do any testing? When they grow up and apply for work you have to prove education right? So how is this go?

[nuthinbutpink]

I still don't really get this...so the kids don't have to do any test? But then how do you prove they did learned?
Like you say they decide if they want to complete the testing for University or not.What if they don't do any testing? When they grow up and apply for work you have to prove education right? So how is this go?

I think it varies by state. Some states have a requirement for kids to be tested that are home schooled to make sure they are at a certain level for each age. Not sure what everyone else does. I imagine you have to pass something to say you have a High School degree- kind of like getting your GED? You would have to have a SAT/ACT test to apply to college, right?

[Flava]

Yeah I was thinking the same like you must have some proof of it or else you can say whatever you want, right?
I also don't like the name unschooling sound funny.

[purplepoet20]

The term Unschooling came because public school teach with books and test, unschooling is undoing the pressure and trauma caused by public school.

You know your kids are learning when you see them or talk with them, just like a child who is taught with any other method. DS1 loves to sing the ABC's while shopping and when he sees the letters on the boxes and the words that he knows he points them out, he will point at what he doesn't know and ask me, and the next time he sees it he knows.

Grades are ok sometimes but if your child worked a really long time on a school project... research, planning, hours or weeks of labor, and on top of that being proud of it... what happens to their spirit (pride) when the teach gives them a low grade! Depending on the childs mindset will they try harder next time or never care about working that hard again. A child being proud of their own work is more important then the grade they get.

[nuthinbutpink]

The term Unschooling came because public school teach with books and test, unschooling is undoing the pressure and trauma caused by public school.

You know your kids are learning when you see them or talk with them, just like a child who is taught with any other method. DS1 loves to sing the ABC's while shopping and when he sees the letters on the boxes and the words that he knows he points them out, he will point at what he doesn't know and ask me, and the next time he sees it he knows.

Grades are ok sometimes but if your child worked a really long time on a school project... research, planning, hours or weeks of labor, and on top of that being proud of it... what happens to their spirit (pride) when the teach gives them a low grade! Depending on the childs mindset will they try harder next time or never care about working that hard again. A child being proud of their own work is more important then the grade they get.

But certainly you don't keep them out of school just in case they might get a bad grade, right? If a child of any age puts that kind of effort into a project, surely they would not receive a poor grade...or if they study and cannot grasp the concept still, they can get extra help but you would not be aware of the difficulties without the testing and grading.

To me, that's just life. No, you will not always succeed and you will struggle certainly but it is how you cope with that, how you react and how you improve that builds who you are. I am not saying that you cannot accomplish that through homeschooling at all but I am just taking your comments literally and it is not my experience at all that if a child works hard on something, a teacher gives them a poor grade. In fact, if a child worked on something for weeks, I venture to say there is no way they would receive a failing grade.

My daughter had a hard time this year in science- the concepts were difficult for her age- I had to google most of it but she and I(and her dad) worked with her, taught her HOW to study and she ended up with a high average in the class. So, it was a great opportunity for us to work with her this year to not only teach her about the topics she was learning about but also to teach her how to study smart, how to take a test...there was a great deal of critical thinking involved.

See, to me, after the ABC's and 123's, school of any kind is just a tool to prove you can learn. I have a college degree in a specific field but very little of that was actually useful. I used to think it was such a waste of time that I had even bothered. But then, once I realized that it proves that I can take something totally unfamiliar to me and master it, it wasn't about the actual subject or material itself, but it proved I can learn and take on new things. That is what my future employer saw too- not which classes I took- I mean who cares- but I proved I could learn and the only way to do that was to take the classes and get the grades.

I assume there is more to why you choose to homeschool than the fear of a poor grade. I am sure there is but I hope that is not the main reason. Children with parents that are involved do well. I am sure your children would do well in any envionment!

[DoulaMama]

This is an excerpt from a web page that I frequent:) I would like my kids to be self-directed when they are older:)
"Self-directed learning is not self-isolated or unstructured learning. Rather, it's the approach of a student who takes full responsibility for her learning.

Self-directed learners work both alone and in teams; they seek out mentors and coaches; they relish high-quality instruction; and they value both abstract and hands-on knowledge. Unlike other students, self-directed learners don't wait for a teacher or class to begin their projects and studies".

[DoulaMama]

But certainly you don't keep them out of school just in case they might get a bad grade, right? If a child of any age puts that kind of effort into a project, surely they would not receive a poor grade...or if they study and cannot grasp the concept still, they can get extra help but you would not be aware of the difficulties without the testing and grading.
Yup:) Testing and grading are exactly the reasons why I'm keeping my kids out of school. I do not want learning to be a competition. I do not want them to judge their self worth by the tests they take. I want them to LOVE to learn. I know many people that hated school including myself and my hubby. I received poor grades because the teachers that I had didn't like the way I learnt. I had to be quiet, not ask too many questions and if it took too long to grasp I was looked at like I was stupid. I worked very hard on all my subjects but I was a visual learner which didn't work well in a classroom the way they taught. Also, I was sick a lot when I was in high school. They didn't believe me or my mom and so they would give me lower grades even though I completed it all at home. This is one of the reasons my mom homeschooled me for 3 grades in HS.

To me, that's just life. No, you will not always succeed and you will struggle certainly but it is how you cope with that, how you react and how you improve that builds who you are. I am not saying that you cannot accomplish that through homeschooling at all but I am just taking your comments literally and it is not my experience at all that if a child works hard on something, a teacher gives them a poor grade. In fact, if a child worked on something for weeks, I venture to say there is no way they would receive a failing grade.

My daughter had a hard time this year in science- the concepts were difficult for her age- I had to google most of it but she and I(and her dad) worked with her, taught her HOW to study and she ended up with a high average in the class. So, it was a great opportunity for us to work with her this year to not only teach her about the topics she was learning about but also to teach her how to study smart, how to take a test...there was a great deal of critical thinking involved.

See, to me, after the ABC's and 123's, school of any kind is just a tool to prove you can learn. I have a college degree in a specific field but very little of that was actually useful. I used to think it was such a waste of time that I had even bothered. But then, once I realized that it proves that I can take something totally unfamiliar to me and master it, it wasn't about the actual subject or material itself, but it proved I can learn and take on new things. That is what my future employer saw too- not which classes I took- I mean who cares- but I proved I could learn and the only way to do that was to take the classes and get the grades.

I assume there is more to why you choose to homeschool than the fear of a poor grade. I am sure there is but I hope that is not the main reason. Children with parents that are involved do well. I am sure your children would do well in any envionment!

One of the issues I have with school grading is the fact that you can do amazingly well in 9 out of 10 classes...receive a failing grade in Math(I did) and end up with a GPA of 3.6 like myself....and if Math hadn't been in there I would have had a 4.0. THAT is unfair. I hated Math 30. I will never be passionate about Math. Science, English, History and Languages were my strong subjects but apparently a person has to be great at everything to succeed in life...or at least that's what the schools are telling our kids.

[Flava]

Well I don't think our school cause any trauma to my girls. They like to go there. DD1 said she hates that school is over now for the summer. I think life it's difficult and there is always competition in life. I mean what is going to happen when they grow up? They have to go "out" to work with everyone else there is no "unworking" right?

[nuthinbutpink]

One of the issues I have with school grading is the fact that you can do amazingly well in 9 out of 10 classes...receive a failing grade in Math(I did) and end up with a GPA of 3.6 like myself....and if Math hadn't been in there I would have had a 4.0. THAT is unfair. I hated Math 30. I will never be passionate about Math. Science, English, History and Languages were my strong subjects but apparently a person has to be great at everything to succeed in life...or at least that's what the schools are telling our kids.

I just have a different viewpoint, I guess. I wouldn't let the fear of possibly failing stop me from doing something.

I was terrible at math too but I just didn't care because I knew it wasn't important long-term. I never saw it that if I was bad at math I would fail in life though...I've done fairly well for myself and that has never held me back.

What happens with college? Do you want your children to get a college education?

[purplepoet20]

Where I live the schools are ok if you are having a hard time because the teachers try to review a lot. State funding is based on the schools test scores of kids. A lot of parents don't care about helping their kids so they are behind. 2 schools have closed down, now other classes or very over crowded, the teachers have to buy there own supplies if they want to do any type of project, and getting parent involved is very difficult.

The best school here are the private school. It is $5,000 a year for tuition, uniforms, class project fee, and book fees. If we sent or kids to school then that is where we would send them but we save a ton of money by homeschool.

[purplepoet20]

A lot of unchooling kids make it far in college. They are more self driven so they end up graduating on time and with better grades.... the college here just had graduation out of the top 5 students 2 were unschooled kids.

[nuthinbutpink]

Where I live the schools are ok if you are having a hard time because the teachers try to review a lot. State funding is based on the schools test scores of kids. A lot of parents don't care about helping their kids so they are behind. 2 schools have closed down, now other classes or very over crowded, the teachers have to buy there own supplies if they want to do any type of project, and getting parent involved is very difficult.

The best school here are the private school. It is $5,000 a year for tuition, uniforms, class project fee, and book fees. If we sent or kids to school then that is where we would send them but we save a ton of money by homeschool.

I agree. Parental involvement is key. My sister teaches and she gets $100 per YEAR for her class. That's it. It is disgusting. She is out of pocket for most things for her class. One of the biggest failings here is the lack of support for our teachers.

[purplepoet20]

I have no fears for my kids grades.... I was very advanced in math and science growing up (just like my dad and brother) and my husband is also very smart when it comes to math and music. But for me at 8 years old and going to a highschool every afternoon for math was no fun. I was labeled the show off kid and teased but my parents told me I had to go or I would never get a good job. By the time I was in Jr High I stopped going to school all together. My husband was gifted with music but hated to preform and when everyone kept pushing he gave up and never played again....

With to stubborn parents I would expect my own kids to be stubburn as well. I want them to notice their own mistakes on an essay not have it pointed out to them, I want them to be proud of the hard work they do and not focus on the reward or fear the grade, and should the time come for college and a career I want them to be self motivated and love there life with out the judgement of others.

[atomic sagebrush]

I still don't really get this...so the kids don't have to do any test? But then how do you prove they did learned?
Like you say they decide if they want to complete the testing for University or not.What if they don't do any testing? When they grow up and apply for work you have to prove education right? So how is this go?

My oldest son took the GED test to prove that he was educated adequately and then with that, he was able to go on to take the SAT and apply to colleges.

[atomic sagebrush]

Well I don't think our school cause any trauma to my girls. They like to go there. DD1 said she hates that school is over now for the summer. I think life it's difficult and there is always competition in life. I mean what is going to happen when they grow up? They have to go "out" to work with everyone else there is no "unworking" right?

My boys are very competitive, just in other arenas that don't have to do with education so much. Trust me, they learn all the life lessons outside of the classroom! ;)

[atomic sagebrush]

I don't really love the term unschooling either because I think it implies something that isn't really true - like, kids who are unschooled aren't educated or something which really isn't the case.

I think a better term would be "child-driven learning" or "interest-driven learning" - kids learn with more of a focus on pursuing their own interests and less about dry facts on some timeline set down by government bureaucrats - not that there's anything wrong with that, but I think it's kind of a turn off to actual, real-world learning.

For me it's not so much about the grades but that school and the kid culture seems very anti-learning in many ways. I'm not totally sure that it's normal for kids to be with other kids all day long with so little familial adult interaction. For most of human existence we lived in small tribes where we were with our relatives and people who had known us for our entire lives, all day long and children naturally imitated what adults did and wanted to be grown up and were expected to contribute to the good of the tribe and family. It is very unnatural to isolate kids away from their family, with other kids their own age who may be virtual strangers, and have them sit all day long (esp. for boys!!)

Rather than grades, I want them to be more self-driven and motivated, rather than doing something meaningless because a teacher told them to. Yes, there are times in life when we do have to do meaningless things because someone tells us to, but school can take it to a whole new level and I figure they'll have plenty of chances to experience that.

You guys must have had more positive school experiences than I did. My experience in school was kinda soul-crushing and I still struggle with feelings of inadequacy and self-worth. While I know I cannot protect my kids from the bumps and bruises of life, I don't want them to be bullied or even more, to BE a bully.

[DoulaMama]

You guys must have had more positive school experiences than I did. My experience in school was kinda soul-crushing and I still struggle with feelings of inadequacy and self-worth. While I know I cannot protect my kids from the bumps and bruises of life, I don't want them to be bullied or even more, to BE a bully.
I hated school as well. (hugs) I wasn't in any cliche because I thought for myself and would not put up with any bullying etc. It made for some lonely days.

[Dreamofpink]

I don't think this happens in the UK (that I know of), but my understanding of it is that it's home schooling but without actually making the child study particular subjects/curriculum and letting their interests and curiosity lead their learning

Yes it does and is a growing alternative to the school system :bigsmile:

[Dreamofpink]

I don't really love the term unschooling either because I think it implies something that isn't really true - like, kids who are unschooled aren't educated or something which really isn't the case.

I think a better term would be "child-driven learning" or "interest-driven learning" - kids learn with more of a focus on pursuing their own interests and less about dry facts on some timeline set down by government bureaucrats - not that there's anything wrong with that, but I think it's kind of a turn off to actual, real-world learning.

For me it's not so much about the grades but that school and the kid culture seems very anti-learning in many ways. I'm not totally sure that it's normal for kids to be with other kids all day long with so little familial adult interaction. For most of human existence we lived in small tribes where we were with our relatives and people who had known us for our entire lives, all day long and children naturally imitated what adults did and wanted to be grown up and were expected to contribute to the good of the tribe and family. It is very unnatural to isolate kids away from their family, with other kids their own age who may be virtual strangers, and have them sit all day long (esp. for boys!!)

Rather than grades, I want them to be more self-driven and motivated, rather than doing something meaningless because a teacher told them to. Yes, there are times in life when we do have to do meaningless things because someone tells us to, but school can take it to a whole new level and I figure they'll have plenty of chances to experience that.

You guys must have had more positive school experiences than I did. My experience in school was kinda soul-crushing and I still struggle with feelings of inadequacy and self-worth. While I know I cannot protect my kids from the bumps and bruises of life, I don't want them to be bullied or even more, to BE a bully.

This is EXACTLY how I feel about home-ed too. I like to call it autonomous learning and we follow a very loose-structure. I can already see a huge chasm between ds1 and his friends who are mainly school educated. It's just a pack-mentality with them all and a lot of nit-picking one-upmanship goes on. DS1 is totally oblivious to this sort of behaviour as the kids at the home-ed groups mainly look after one another and are a very caring bunch, especially the older ones towards the younger ones. I don't want to tar all school children with the same brush as there's good and bad everywhere, but it's just learned behaviour and school culture that I hate as it's so unnecessary. It's getting harder for me regarding relationships with my friends who don't home-ed as they're all living in such a different world to me. I don't envy them the school-run, playground politics etc and love having my boys experience the real world with me by their side. As for the usual 'socialisation' question, my kids are the first to say hello and talk to others whereas getting a word out of my friends' kids can be like getting blood out of a stone! It works for us just now and the thought of putting them into senior school horrifies me as I never want them to have even a little taste of what I had to endure. It's such an emotive issue though and I have to tread very carefully IRL as I am very aware that I am swimming against the tide - and it's a strong one a lot of the time!

[Yuzu]

I'd be really interested in this, but I don't know how I would teach classes like Chemistry and Higher Math (the classes I wasn't so good in). How do homeschoolers deal with classes they have less knowledge in?

[Yuzu]

Oh! I didn't realize this was an old post.

[Dreamofpink]

Oh! I didn't realize this was an old post.

Hey no problem! It was me who resurrected it ;) good question though. I guess we'll cross that bridge when we get to it. Looking to start the maths prog math u see in the spring which takes them up to age 16-18ish.

Sent from my LG-E400 using Tapatalk 2

[Wishing4Princess]

This is neat thread! I am also thinking about home-schooling my kids too..at the moment my older son is enrolled in a montessori pre-k. but it's a bit too expensive and we cannot afford privte schools for all our kids.

I'm still trying to figure out what the 'main' difference between charter school and home schooling is? from what i understand a charter is that the student reports to a facility to pickup the curriculum packet then works at home on his own pace, sort of like home schooling . is this correct?