Saw Palmetto

[zanacal]

I haven't thought about Saw P for my sway so far because I'm still BFing DS3 once a day but he's not overly interested at the moment and if it's thought to be very worthwhile for a girl sway I would consider weaning.

So, what is it thought to do? I googled it and read that it's often taken to boost libido which seemed at odds with everything else we do when trying for a girl. Perhaps that information is incorrect? I must say, it didn't sound like a particularly 'nice' supplement either but I'll reserve judgement until I know more!

Does anybody have an opinion on how successful this is as a girl sway supplement? Any experiences of how it affected you, good or bad?

Thank you x

[Mochagirl]

I think ds has officially weaned himself - it's been 3 nights in a row without him asking for a nurse. I'm in the same position as you, now that I CAN take SP, I'm wondering whether or not I should. If I start now, I'll be taking it for about 12 days before my attempt and O. I'm a little concerned that it might screw up my cycle and make O come later or something. I'll be following this thread to see what advice you get.

[Indira]

I can´t tell you if it is succesfull in a girl sway but I can tell you my experience up to now.
I´ve started taking it last month and I feel a big difference, now I don´t know if it is the weight loss on the low everything diet or the saw palmetto (probably both), but my libido has practically DISAPPEARED, so I take that as a very good sign my testosteron went down.
I think for me it has an effect on my other hormones too though, I was very regularly O-ing on day 11-12 before with very little EWCM untill last month, with the Saw palmetto it was like my body tried very hard to ovulate, so it came 3 days later with many days of very much EWCM. Now I´m taking it from AF up to CD7, today it´s CD 11 for me and there is no sign yet that I´m going to O soon, no EWCM either.
Also it makes my temps go up and when I stop to take it on CD7 they go down on CD 8/9, so I guess it does something to my progesteron? Well, Atomic says it isn´t necessarily bad if a supplement messes up your cycle, it means hormonally things are changing.
I take an Activia yoghurt with it, to me it causes constipation.

[Indira]

I forgot, it is supposed to lower testosterone and I´m quite sure it does that for me.
Do you have signs of high testerone and did you notice a change with the weight loss?

[zanacal]

Thanks Indira.

Regarding testosterone, when I read a description of personality related to high testosterone it's me down to a tee but I think the way testosterone is meant to sway is by increasing libido and increasing EWCM and I go through phases but in general I don't have a particularly high libido (although my DH does!). I have only been on the diet for just under 2 weeks and I am taking Vitex. I usually ovulate very regularly around CD14 but that time has come and gone this month. I thought I had a couple of OPK fade ins but they're back to negative now and a couple of times I've had a very little EWCM and some abdominal tenderness but nothing which tells me for certain that I've ovulated or am about to ovulate. I can't be bothered with anything at the moment but I don't know if that's the diet and the Vitex talking or just that I've become completely pre-occupied with swaying to the expense of everything else iykwim. Perhaps Vitex is enough ...

[atomic sagebrush]

I haven't thought about Saw P for my sway so far because I'm still BFing DS3 once a day but he's not overly interested at the moment and if it's thought to be very worthwhile for a girl sway I would consider weaning.

So, what is it thought to do? I googled it and read that it's often taken to boost libido which seemed at odds with everything else we do when trying for a girl. Perhaps that information is incorrect? I must say, it didn't sound like a particularly 'nice' supplement either but I'll reserve judgement until I know more!

Does anybody have an opinion on how successful this is as a girl sway supplement? Any experiences of how it affected you, good or bad?

Thank you x

I hope more chime in here and share personal experiences, but just to throw my two cents in...

Saw palmetto DOES lower testosterone. This has been studied and proven to my satisfaction that it really does work. Also, the PCOS ladies swear by it for lowering their testosterone levels and helping with the acne and hairiness that they get so it works both in the real world and in the lab.

I have read the same thing that you have about boosting libido and I personally discount it. Every herb on the market is reputed to boost libido, it seems, and it may be just marketing, or it could also be that in people who have manipulated their testosterone levels to abnormally high (bodybuilders on steroids) their sex drive tends to go away, so SP may actually help with that by reducing the levels of circulating DHT in the blood.

I agree with you that it's not a nice supp. Now with JJ getting sick I'm even more wary of it; I had read before about the liver stuff but again, that seems to be something that they say about all herbs and since so many people took it on IG and nothing happened, I figured that was just people being overcautious, but now I'm not so sure. Also, my FIL has taken SP for 15 years for his prostate, so I thought I had some evidence that it really was safe in the long term but now my FIL was just diagnosed with Lou Gehrig's Disease...not saying the SP caused or contributed to that but still, I have a less good feeling about it than I did before just from that front.

The problem is that I really do think it works and we are taking it for only a few months at most. I just don't really think that pep tea works. I've seen a bunch of people take it and most of them were like, "is this even doing anything"?? Whereas SP changes your cycle and it's obviously affecting people because those PCOS ladies don't waste time on stuff that doesn't work - you don't see them drinking peppermint tea LOL.

If I was swaying pink and not breastfeeding I would be majorly tempted to take it, even though I don't totally think it's proven safe I think I'd prob chance it because it does seem to work.

[atomic sagebrush]

Thanks Indira.

Regarding testosterone, when I read a description of personality related to high testosterone it's me down to a tee but I think the way testosterone is meant to sway is by increasing libido and increasing EWCM and I go through phases but in general I don't have a particularly high libido (although my DH does!). I have only been on the diet for just under 2 weeks and I am taking Vitex. I usually ovulate very regularly around CD14 but that time has come and gone this month. I thought I had a couple of OPK fade ins but they're back to negative now and a couple of times I've had a very little EWCM and some abdominal tenderness but nothing which tells me for certain that I've ovulated or am about to ovulate. I can't be bothered with anything at the moment but I don't know if that's the diet and the Vitex talking or just that I've become completely pre-occupied with swaying to the expense of everything else iykwim. Perhaps Vitex is enough ...

Not necessarily. Truthfully, we don't KNOW how testosterone sways and there have been many many women (myself included) that have high T personality-wise but don't find that they have a superhigh sex drive. Sex drive in women is a complicated issue and a lot of times mental aspects are more important than physical ones, IKYKWIM!! Like, I could have T through the roof and if the dishes aren't done and I'm tired and stressed out, sex is about the last thing on my mind.

[zanacal]

Ugh, I so know what you mean by that last comment ....

I'm taking Vitex. Is there any benefit to taking both or would you choose one or the other and how are they meant to differ?

[atomic sagebrush]

There is a benefit to taking both although please be aware that I haven't totally researched this one on it's own yet, this is going off of secondhand info from IG and the SoulCysters. SP and Vitex seem to boost the effectiveness of the other and alleviate the downsides. SP blocks testosterone but then your body ~may~ start making estrogen as a replacement (this doesn't seem to happen until you've been on SP for a long time and so does not necessarily apply to swayers, but still). Vitex lowers estrogen and raises progesterone. So the one-two punch of the SP and V helps to lower testosterone without the risk of an increase in estrogen.

[zanacal]

Thanks. It hurts my brain wondering what to do but I'll think on it (not sure I think about anything else at the moment!). Please add your experiences ladies!

[atomic sagebrush]

He was in the Army but it was earlier, in the early 60's. I do totally think it could have been something he was given in the military too. But, since he was kinda my "guinea pig" on the SP I just felt obligated to share that info with everyone because I would rather die a thousand deaths than have anyone ever got ill from any advice I gave them. Safety first.

That is very interesting about the aspartame. I know I've yammered about this repeatedly but I got really sick from Splenda (in almost exactly the way you described, with the anxiety part of it, and I noticed that after I ate TWO chocolate mini rice cakes that I didn't even know had Splenda in them until after I ate them) so I totally believe it is possible that some of our bodies metabolize those artificial sweeteners differently.

We don't NEED them anyway - after all, most of the baby girls who've ever been conceived were without benefit of artificial sweetener!!

I'm just SO thankful you're doing ok now JJ. Praying.

[atomic sagebrush]

Atomic I would have him talk to someone at the VA or have him get an advocate to deal with the VA then (you could call the ALS society, they know a lot about VA benefits and how to apply for them). He could be entitled to many benefits that he deserves. They are finding more and more a correlation with this disease and people that have served in the military.

Thank you I will pass that along! ANYTHING would help right now because this has really turned all our lives upside down and inside out. :/

[zanacal]

Hugs Atomic x

[zanacal]

So, I asked DS if he'd like booby or milk before bed tonight and he ran off all excited to get a cup of milk - thanks son!! If we do wean I think I'll give the Saw P a go along with the Vitex I'm already taking - both AF to O right? I had a look and most Saw P seems to come in a capsule. Some (more expensive) ones are vegetarian and some have geletin. Does this matter?

[zanacal]

Can anybody tell me which brand of Saw Palmetto they have so I can order mine please?

[atomic sagebrush]

So, I asked DS if he'd like booby or milk before bed tonight and he ran off all excited to get a cup of milk - thanks son!! If we do wean I think I'll give the Saw P a go along with the Vitex I'm already taking - both AF to O right? I had a look and most Saw P seems to come in a capsule. Some (more expensive) ones are vegetarian and some have geletin. Does this matter?

The gelatin is in such a small amount that it doesn't matter. (thank you for the hugs!!)

[atomic sagebrush]

Can anybody tell me which brand of Saw Palmetto they have so I can order mine please?

Any of the name brands are fine, like Nature's Way, etc. I'd shy away from store brands.

[zanacal]

Thanks Atomic x

[XXdreaming]

That is very interesting about the aspartame. I know I've yammered about this repeatedly but I got really sick from Splenda (in almost exactly the way you described, with the anxiety part of it, and I noticed that after I ate TWO chocolate mini rice cakes that I didn't even know had Splenda in them until after I ate them) so I totally believe it is possible that some of our bodies metabolize those artificial sweeteners differently.

We don't NEED them anyway - after all, most of the baby girls who've ever been conceived were without benefit of artificial sweetener!!

I'm just SO thankful you're doing ok now JJ. Praying.

No me and aspartame don't mix either, it causes me to have heart palpitations and my heart is healthy nothing wrong with my heart(been tested) and then found online that aspartame can cause it so I cut it out of my diet completely and no heart palp, so I say sugar is more healthier than aspartame lol, I just don't use sugar or artificial sweetener at all, eventually you do get used to it

[atomic sagebrush]

Interestingly, sugar triggers my heart condition called SVT!! Sometimes ya just can't win unless you are willing to eat bark, leaves, and twigs!!! o.O

[fresas]

I take Nature's Way Saw Palmetto Standardized (http://www.amazon.com/Natures-Way-Standard-Palmetto-softgels/dp/B00014D20A) version. I take it for PCOS and symptoms. I have been taking it for around 6 or 7 months. I guess taking the standardized and not the berries or other versions is what is particularly helpful for women with PCOS. I don't know about swaying though.

I went off of vitex when I started taking SP and I think that SP has actually given me more EWCM and CM in general versus the vitex. It has also helped keep my cycles more regular and keep the acne away. Unfortunately I haven't noticed a change in body hair or hair loss and some of my high T personality issues.

The last time I tested my pH (with a cheap paper litmus test), I don't know if I got a far enough in sample, but my pH was right around 5 multiple times that month. I never tested it when on vitex though.

I still have a lot to learn about taking these supplements, but thought I'd share my experience.

[zanacal]

Thanks fresas :D

[atomic sagebrush]

Thank you, that's very helpful to all of us!

Out of curiosity, did you test at ovulation?? pH does not count unless it's from the EWCM your body makes around ovulation.

The CM is interesting because we've been finding with the blue swayers, that estrogen (which makes CM) and testosterone are somehow intimately linked, and sometimes trying to raise (or lower, for pink swayers) testosterone can cause your body to switch over to making less (or more, for pink swayers) estrogen. So it may be that by virtue of taking just SP, without taking the vitex as well, you are lowering your testosterone and encouraging your body to use the same raw materials (testosteorne, estrogen, and progesterone are all made from cholesterol) to make estrogen instead.

Don't panic though - I suspect that on the TTC girl diet you will give your body less raw materials to work with and your production of estrogen will drop as well. A lot of people take both vitex and SP and you may want to give that a try as well, I hope if you do you'll rem. this thread and drop by to update.

Again, thanks for a very helpful post.

[fresas]

I tested twice close to and on the day of suspected ovulation (based on middleschmertz). The other times I tested were very beginning and very end of month to compare to my fertile times. Like I said, I don't know if I went in far enough to get a good EWCM sample.

This next cycle (I'm on CD1) I am going to stick with what I'm currently taking (minus the fish oil) and see the pH again. I may also test DH's sperm from a condom to get the pH.

When we decide to officially TTC girl, I'm going to start taking vitex and saw palmetto together in addition to other supplements that might help sway pink.

[atomic sagebrush]

Good to know! Best of luck!!

[queen-of-harts]

I read that SP lowers both Testosterone AND Estrogen!

[atomic sagebrush]

I read that SP lowers both Testosterone AND Estrogen!

I've read that too Queen. My thinking is that your body "wants" to preserve the ability to get pg and so goes the extra mile to continue producing estrogen even in the presence of SP. Strictly speaking we don't NEED testosterone to conceive, so your body probably chooses to make estrogen in lieu of testosterone when it has less raw materials to make both (and if you're taking herbs that lower estrogen's effect, may even make MORE estrogen to compensate - no one need worry over that, just saying that your body will try very hard to keep you fertile). So over the course of time, SP would lower both E and T but in the beginning it prob. affects T more than E because your body "knows" it needs E to stay fertile.

[queen-of-harts]

I've read that too Queen. My thinking is that your body "wants" to preserve the ability to get pg and so goes the extra mile to continue producing estrogen even in the presence of SP. Strictly speaking we don't NEED testosterone to conceive, so your body probably chooses to make estrogen in lieu of testosterone when it has less raw materials to make both (and if you're taking herbs that lower estrogen's effect, may even make MORE estrogen to compensate - no one need worry over that, just saying that your body will try very hard to keep you fertile). So over the course of time, SP would lower both E and T but in the beginning it prob. affects T more than E because your body "knows" it needs E to stay fertile.

So how long should someone who likely is high T and E be on SP before TTC? I want to take it long enough so it will bring down both.Do you think six months before ttc is good?

[atomic sagebrush]

I am a little concerned (about the SP more than the Vitex) about taking it in the long term. I would go with 2-3 months for the SP with the expectation that it will prob. take you an additional 2-3 months to get pg. IDK if I would take it much longer than that - I feel like the jury is still out on SP interms of safety.

People take vitex for ages so you can start that sooner if you like. Some people have had success taking vitex for the whole cycle for a few months and then switching to af-O only when they start to TTC.

[fourunderfour]

if we aren't going to start TTC til sept...should i hold off on taking them? today is my 4th full day on SP & Vitex. i was hoping that it might kick start my cycles and i wouldn't have to use as much RE help.....
but should i just finish up for 10 more days and then hold off again until like august?

[atomic sagebrush]

Yes, I would def. have you wait on the saw palmetto and aspirin in particular. There's no need to be taking them now.

Vitex is at your discretion - some people have taken it for a long time before getting pg (I took it for 6 months). I do think you should take it AF- day before O only if you start it that far out so it doesn't wreak havoc with your cycle.

[fourunderfour]

I'm glad I read this. I will stop the aspirin and SP. (and i'll spare you the pics of the bruises on my arms! ha!)
but I think i'll continue with the vitex. my cycle couldn't possibly wreak any more havoc.
I never ever know when Aunt Flo will decide she wants to stop by - so I don't bother worrying about it, and just welcome her when she comes. ;)

I started taking the vitex this past sunday. I'll take it for 14 days then see what happens. maybe i'll just wait out another period and then start up another "round" then. we'll see. again, my cycle is a mystery.

also...would you be able to post a link to YOUR sway? i've been combing the archives and cannot find it. please and thank you! :)

[atomic sagebrush]

If aspirin is causing bruises, you may not be able to tolerate it. I can't do aspirin either because of the bruising/bleeding. If you can't take it, just focus on diet and aspartame, and the saw palmetto can also help.

Here's my "not-really-a-sway, sway" http://genderdreaming.com/forum/add-your-girl-sway/9388-atomics-stealth-pink-sway-updated-new-info-3-25-a.html