Understanding the "Law" of Testosterone Supply and Demand

[atomic sagebrush]

UPDATE 12-25-17 While we are no longer sure that whatever sways via personality factors is truly "testosterone" itself, the suggestions in this thread are still sound ones and since most people do still believe in testosterone for swaying (high T = blue, low T = pink) it's still a worthwhile thread to read.

For the definitive thread on personality factors and swaying please read this. http://genderdreaming.com/forum/gender-swaying-general-discussion/33517-maternal-dominance-hypothesis-priviledged-daughter-hypothesis.html

The production of testosterone is an unbelievably complicated process described here: Testosterone - Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Testosterone) :omg: Still with me? :rolleyes: The good news is, we don't have to understand all that gobbeldygook to use testosterone (or lack thereof) to our advantage when swaying.

Nutshell version - cholesterol Cholesterol - Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cholesterol) is the building block of ALL steroid hormones. Your body makes most of its cholesterol and gets a smaller amount via diet (only 10-15% of your cholesterol comes through diet). You DON'T need to eat gargantuan amounts of cholesterol to have plenty of the stuff, your body makes it out of saturated fats and even animal protein itself. In turn, it uses that cholesterol that it made, to build ALL your hormones, progesterone, testosterone, and estrogen alike.

Consequently, you don't have to eat testosterone-laden foods to make testosterone or to have all boys. Some swaying diets have red meat listed as boy-friendly and chicken and eggs listed as girl-friendly, because red meat has testosterone and chicken and eggs have progesterone, but that doesn't matter. Your body MAKES cholesterol out of the saturated fats in ALL meats, eggs, saturated plant fats like coconut, and full-fat dairy foods, and then turns that cholesterol into testosterone, estrogen, and progesterone.

If your body decides to make less testosterone/estrogen and more progesterone, it's not because you're EATING less testosterone and more progesterone, it's because of other cues in your body that send the signal to your body to make less testosterone and more progesterone. In fact, your body produces progesterone BEFORE it makes testosterone, and testosterone is later turned into estrogen. The three are all part of the same process. You cannot divorce the three hormones and treat them in such a simple manner as, "More testosterone and estrogen = boys, more progesterone = girls" because SOMETHING is causing your body to produce these different levels of hormones.

That SOMETHING is the key to gender swaying.

When I talk about "testosterone supply and demand", what I'm really saying is that there are (at least) two variables in the equation. One is the amount of raw materials you have available to make testosterone (or whatever it is that is swaying via personality factors) with. So we try and control this amount, firstly through diet. For blue swayers, by eating more saturated fats that raise the so-called "bad" cholesterol and also healthy fats that raise the so-called "good" cholesterol, in addition to other various nutrients that help with the process. For pink swayers, we eat less fat and protein overall and less of the nutrients that are proven to help your body manufacture testosterone (like Vitamins A and D, among others.)

We also take supplements that raise or lower the amount of testosterone circulating in our bodies, raise or lower the amount of cholesterol that our body turns into testosterone (you can have both high cholesterol and low testosterone if your body is not getting the "signal" to produce testosterone), and even raise or lower the amount of testosterone that our bodies make out of whatever raw materials are available (some foods that lower cholesterol actually raise testosterone, like oats).

UPDATE - PLEASE do not go online and try to take every herb ever said to raise or lower testosterone. Firstly because we don't even know that testosterone is even doing anything!! And secondly because all those herbs have risks and side effects that may make it harder or impossible for you to get and stay pregnant, may have risks and side effects that are harmful to you or an unborn baby, and additionally may even have side effects that end up affecting your sway negatively. Since we do not even know that testosterone is even swaying, it is entirely possible to take an herb that has been rumored to "raise or lower testosterone" only to have it do some other thing that no one yet understands that undermines your sway via some other mechanism entirely!

But all this is to no avail if we do not address the second half of the equation - DEMAND. Pink swayers, if we do not convince our bodies that we need less testosterone in order to survive, it will carry on producing testosterone using whatever it can scrounge up. And blue swayers, if our bodies don't "think" they need testosterone, and in some instances may even survive better without it, it will salvage its energy for other things and continue on with less testosterone (or whatever it is that is really swaying via the personality factors).

Our bodies produce testosterone for SURVIVAL. In nature, dominant animals (both physically and socially dominant) face constant challenges to their authority and need that testosterone to maintain their physical and social superiority and take on challengers. Submissive animals have a much better chance of survival if they are non-confrontational and so their testosterone levels tend to drop if they decline challenges, or lose.

It isn't hard to see how this translates into modern-day life. If you're always taking on challenges, both mental and physical, that you enjoy, and you tend to succeed at them, your testosterone levels are probably higher than another person who feels doomed to fail at every endeavor, or who has to struggle and work constantly just to get by, or has been put down and persecuted a lot in life. (This does NOT mean that people with lower T levels are victims or failures, there are many paths to low testosterone.)

Taking it a step further to swaying...

(Note - No one needs to take offense at any of this, it's meant to be general observations and conjecture and not extrapolate to every person. Keep in mind that there are many factors that sway such as smoking and skipping breakfast, which have NOTHING to do with testosterone or dominance whatsoever.)

A lot of boy-moms (aka pink swayers) have tended to be very much go-getters with a tendency to get SUPERobsessed with the details of everything in life, and having the "perfect" sway is just another thing to obsess over. I have seen some boy-moms even say point blank that the reason their GD was so bad is because getting a daughter was the only thing in life that they hadn't "accomplished" and they view swaying as a challenge to be overcome and a prize to be won.

Some of the blue swayers, on the other hand, have been more easily overwhelmed by swaying and feel that they literally CAN'T conceive a baby boy because something is wrong with them or they are being punished in some way. I have also noticed (and this is just a generalization and in no way meant to be offensive to anyone at all) that ~some~ of the girl-moms desperately want sons not for themselves, but for others - their husbands, fathers, or society at large. Not having a son is something that they equate with letting other people down, of being a disappointment to the people they care about.

Going back to the idea of an equation, it is GREAT for our sway if we do everything we can to increase or limit the supply of raw materials for our body to manufacture into testosterone. But unless we address the demand aspect and work on changing our habits and attitudes as well, our body may simply continue on as it was. Swaying can even aggravate this by making blue swayers feel terribly pressured and discouraged and lowering their testosterone, or making pink swayers focus too much on details and obsessing over every aspect of their sway and raising their levels.

Supply + Demand = testosterone. Even if your supply drops to ZERO - which is impossible because your body will do ANYTHING to keep you alive, even down to making testosterone out of your last cubic centimeter of body fat - if your body senses that you need testosterone, it will continue making it. And even if you have sky high cholesterol, if your body thinks that high testosterone will reduce your overall odds of survival (animals who are physically less able to defend themselves are ill-suited to getting into a lot of fights or even just asserting themselves socially)it will not use that cholesterol to raise your testosterone levels. It will save it for a rainy day when it's needed.

Here are some non-diet, non-supplement ways of increasing demand and raising your testosterone levels for blue swayers -

Weight training and moderate exercise (they emulate taking on and overcoming physical challenges) - possibly even something that involves fighting like kickboxing or TaeBo,

Getting enough sleep

Taking on and overcoming challenges (these don't have to be big things, even something small like driving to a new part of town or playing board games with your kids or video games where you're competing against yourself or the computer can help)

Putting yourself in a position of authority over others can help to raise your testosterone levels.

Above all, try to focus on the positive...you CAN conceive a son and if swaying begins to feel overwhelming and undoable to you, take a break and regroup.

Here are some ways of decreasing demand and lowering your testosterone levels for pink swayers -

Either NO exercise or extreme exercise, minimum 60 minutes a day, 6-7 days a week (makes your body think you're either keeping your head down and avoid notice, or you're having to work very hard just to survive)

Getting less sleep than normal

Avoiding things like social media and video games if you tend to be very competitive, particularly if you were using these things when you got your boys

Walking away from arguments and declining challenges that you would ordinarily take on

Above all, you must NOT get obsessed over swaying. If you know you're prone to that kind of thinking, do not include any of the more nitpicky swaying aspects like timing and pH that take a lot of constant monitoring and tracking, because it just keeps it in the forefront of your mind constantly. Please read the following: http://genderdreaming.com/forum/ttc-a-girl-best-practices/62481-help-what-swaycession.html

Aside from sheer bad luck, testosterone levels are the number one reason why good sways fail. It's not enough just to affect your supply, you must also address demand, in order for your sway to succeed.

[Out of the Blue]

THANK YOU!!! I think this is the biggest obstacle I'm tackling in my sway. Lately, I've been trying to modify things in my life to help with the sway. For example, I sometimes play an annoyingly addictive game on my iPad (Fruit Ninja :oops: ) I can feel my competitive side come out. I have since de-installed it and any other games like that as they are not doing me any favors, time-wise or T-wise. I am thinking of starting yoga again as it seems like it really relaxes me but would it increase my T b/c it builds muscle? Are there any particular activities you could think of that would be up a pink swayer's alley? Should I be watching "chic-flicks" instead of CSI, lol?

This post came at a perfect time, Atomic! :HH:

[zanacal]

This is a fantastic article (again - thanks Atomic!) but I still find it a little depressing! I'm doing what I can to lower the supply of testosterone but the demand is another thing .... Actually, I think maybe I am a little better. I believe my attitude at work has changed - we have some tight deadlines at the moment and usually I'd work evenings to meet them but I've said I'll do it all as quickly as I can and it'll be done when it's done - but I'm in a well paid job and I can't get in trouble for not meeting deadlines! A lot of the time I should be doing things around the house I'm obsessing over new posts on this site. It's terrible to admit really, I should be outside in the garden with the boys but we're indoors and they're amusing themselves (which they don't mind but still!) so I can 'research'. I feel it's a good thing that I'm not diving straight in to swaying and have a few months to decide what our plan is because as time passes it becomes clearer and less of a minefield and I don't have to think so hard about it - but perhaps I really do need to step back from the obsession of checking in here. Maybe I should start taking baths in the evenings instead of turning the laptop on (but I don't want to, I like it here!!!). I just get the feeling that this isn't something I can change all that much about me because it's how I am (the other women in my family, my mum and my sister are not like me, everybody says I have my dad's attitude!). I feel like I can only possibly have another boy - but perhaps that's a good thing to feel that way lol!

Atomic, are you talking only about testosterone in the female? How important are male testosterone levels do you think?

[rainbowflower]

hmm so perhaps women with thyroid problems might not be able to do much to prevent their body swaying on it's own... regardless of how few onions or how much fat they eat, although that does assume that hormone levels are a key swaying factor

I do think there's a difference between stressing and obsessing, though. I don't think obsessing necessarily sways, but I do think stressing does!

[atomic sagebrush]

This is a fantastic article (again - thanks Atomic!) but I still find it a little depressing! I'm doing what I can to lower the supply of testosterone but the demand is another thing .... Actually, I think maybe I am a little better. I believe my attitude at work has changed - we have some tight deadlines at the moment and usually I'd work evenings to meet them but I've said I'll do it all as quickly as I can and it'll be done when it's done - but I'm in a well paid job and I can't get in trouble for not meeting deadlines! A lot of the time I should be doing things around the house I'm obsessing over new posts on this site. It's terrible to admit really, I should be outside in the garden with the boys but we're indoors and they're amusing themselves (which they don't mind but still!) so I can 'research'. I feel it's a good thing that I'm not diving straight in to swaying and have a few months to decide what our plan is because as time passes it becomes clearer and less of a minefield and I don't have to think so hard about it - but perhaps I really do need to step back from the obsession of checking in here. Maybe I should start taking baths in the evenings instead of turning the laptop on (but I don't want to, I like it here!!!). I just get the feeling that this isn't something I can change all that much about me because it's how I am (the other women in my family, my mum and my sister are not like me, everybody says I have my dad's attitude!). I feel like I can only possibly have another boy - but perhaps that's a good thing to feel that way lol!

Atomic, are you talking only about testosterone in the female? How important are male testosterone levels do you think?

a) I was worried that people might find it depressing but at the same time, forewarned is forearmed. Don't get discouraged (and certainly don't get in trouble at work!!) just change the things you can change and walk away from the rest - and that is a good exercise in lowering T as well.

b) One of the most obsessed, research-oriented swayers I know (HI babydust), who I was kinda convinced would have a boy due to T levels, took a long break before swaying and did indeed get a girl. She did all the research and the obsessing and then before her sway she relaxed. :agree:

I promise that even the hardest-charging lipstick-wearing pit bulls amongst us can have both boys and girls. It's just that overall, if you're high T you will have more boys than girls, and swaying is all about optimizing our chances for THIS attempt...none of us want to "Duggar it out".

c)They're moderately important, but I think they're important primarily in terms of sperm count (so a guy with High T and low sperm count, like bodybuilders who take a lot of supps which raise T and lower sperm count, have a lot of girls) and that they can be trumped by the woman. On IG we had noticed a phenomenon where very macho manly males married to kinda submissive females (again no offense meant, general observation) had a lot of girls and artsy, peaceful guys married to tough chicks had a lot of boys.

[atomic sagebrush]

THANK YOU!!! I think this is the biggest obstacle I'm tackling in my sway. Lately, I've been trying to modify things in my life to help with the sway. For example, I sometimes play an annoyingly addictive game on my iPad (Fruit Ninja :oops: ) I can feel my competitive side come out. I have since de-installed it and any other games like that as they are not doing me any favors, time-wise or T-wise. I am thinking of starting yoga again as it seems like it really relaxes me but would it increase my T b/c it builds muscle? Are there any particular activities you could think of that would be up a pink swayer's alley? Should I be watching "chic-flicks" instead of CSI, lol?

This post came at a perfect time, Atomic! :HH:

That is a great idea to give up the video games! :agree:

You know, you may have a good point about CSI vs. chick flicks! It sounds crazy but I do feel a lot more in touch with my feminine side when watching Lifetime as opposed to Mythbusters (although Kerri did have a girl!!!)

Yoga is a dicey one because while yoga does relax you, it's also great for fertility and may counteract the lower fertility = girls idea.

I would find activities that don't require you to accomplish any goals at all whatsoever. Even peaceful activities like needlepoint are kinda goal oriented. I like the bath idea, or the sitting outside with the kids idea, listening to music, getting backrubs, reading (as long as it's trashy novels and not on anyone's "books you must read before death" list!!

[atomic sagebrush]

hmm so perhaps women with thyroid problems might not be able to do much to prevent their body swaying on it's own... regardless of how few onions or how much fat they eat, although that does assume that hormone levels are a key swaying factor

I do think there's a difference between stressing and obsessing, though. I don't think obsessing necessarily sways, but I do think stressing does!

There are actually several diseases that do seem to sway blue by raising testosterone (I need to do an essay on this) but by no means is all hope lost. Remember that it's just a general tendency to conceive more boys than girls, and if you had 10 kids, some of them would still be girls. But who wants to have 10 kids just to get 2 or three girls?

You're 100% totally right in that in some ways, we do what we can do to sway but our bodies have the final word. For some of us, we may have to get so strict on diet that we approach starvation for our body to reduce T levels.

My thinking is, at least we can TRY to reduce demand and maybe that will help make the diet more effective than it would be by itself.

[zanacal]

Thanks Atomic and whilst I find the facts somewhat depressing I'm also grateful to know about them and to have the chance to do something about them! I'm definitely going to work on chilling out :D In fact, I'm far more laid back since I had children than I was before and I'm sure I've read that testosterone decreases the more children you have (or maybe it's just the older you get!) - in my case probably something to do with accepting that I can't control everything in my life, namely the 3 little beasties who live with me :D

I have actually been wondering about delaying my sway yet another month (it was going to be July, then August and possibly now September). I know it then becomes a 'boy' time of year but I want to make sure I've lost enough weight. I think I need to lose 40lb in total to ensure I'm at my lowest pre-conception weight ever and I lost 16.5lb in my first 4 weeks on the low-everything diet so it's possible I'll be there for August but if not September is good too - and perhaps even better if it puts some distance between the obsessiveness and conception (although it's a stressful time of year at work which isn't great)! Is the weight aspect really key do you think? I started taking Saw Palmetto this cycle and was planning on taking it for the full 6 weeks before our attempt in August - if we do delay should I take Saw Palmetto all the way through (so 10 weeks solid) or should I have a break?

So is there a direct correlation between testosterone and sperm count in men? I think DH is going to give licorice root a try as he's such a stud (ha ha!) - but if that works a little too well then the regular BDing should do the lowering of sperm count which might exist in somebody with lower T levels? I'm sure I also read somewhere that higher paternal age (rather than maternal age) is what produces more girls. Is that right and is that a connection to lower sperm count again?

[swish]

I don't know about your testosterone but I wanted to say I think your English is fantastic!! Your plan looks good too. Have my blue dust and testosterone too!!!!

[Flava]

swish thanks! You can get all the pink dust from me oh Lord for sure you need a pick up truck for it. lol

[Another princess]

Atomic, thankyou soo much for this information. You explain things so well, and it all makes perfect sense in terms of swaying. Ive been so suprised and disappointed lately when ive checked in on IG that really excellent pink sways have failed. Many of which have included EGS. However all of these failed sways have been of ladies who have obsessed over their sway and hence achieved what looked like a perfect pink sway. Its very sad to think that all that time and hard work they have put into their sway has been spoilt by the obsessing and striving for perfection which is soo easy to get caught up in when swaying. Thankyou again for this very important info. xx

[lindi]

Wow atomic, this is really interesting.

I see myself so much in this essay- high cholesterol, check, high testosterone, check. I had never really realized that the testosterone was direct byproduct of the cholesterol- I knew the two things went together. Now, as a vegetarian for many years, I wonder a chicken and egg sort of question- is my "personality" really causing the cholesterol to turn to estrogen and testosterone (I have high both estrogen and testosterone, something that makes complete sense with high cholesterol) or is the high cholesterol causing my personality? Hormones are to blame for so many mood related things, right, it makes instinctive sense that it's harder to "change" your personality in order to change your hormones, than to understand *why* your body produces the hormones it does at the levels it does.
I tested high for cholesterol when I was 12 years old. 2 full years before I got my first period. My brother also had high cholesterol as a child, and my mother's family has a lot of heart disease. I am wondering...my body was set up to produce gobs of estrogen and testosterone before it even needed to be producing these at levels where I would ovulate.
The genetics that set this up are of course very complicated, but I wonder- at the root of what is causing this hormone level in my body is the "signal" you mention.
It makes me think there is something that hasn't been mentioned or figured out yet in swaying that can affect this mechanism- that can guide your body into at least a more balanced and middle ground hormone mix. I think I'll read that wikipedia link but I wonder if there is isn't something more than just behavior modification that can have a dramatic effect on the way a woman's body goes about turning cholesterol into sex hormones.
P.S. I find it so funny that I'm 9 weeks pregnant with a girl through HT and this puzzle STILL gets me!

[lindi]

Mmm, the wikipedia mentioned something about leydig cells in men but nothing in women. :(

[atomic sagebrush]

Wow atomic, this is really interesting.

I see myself so much in this essay- high cholesterol, check, high testosterone, check. I had never really realized that the testosterone was direct byproduct of the cholesterol- I knew the two things went together. Now, as a vegetarian for many years, I wonder a chicken and egg sort of question- is my "personality" really causing the cholesterol to turn to estrogen and testosterone (I have high both estrogen and testosterone, something that makes complete sense with high cholesterol) or is the high cholesterol causing my personality? Hormones are to blame for so many mood related things, right, it makes instinctive sense that it's harder to "change" your personality in order to change your hormones, than to understand *why* your body produces the hormones it does at the levels it does.
I tested high for cholesterol when I was 12 years old. 2 full years before I got my first period. My brother also had high cholesterol as a child, and my mother's family has a lot of heart disease. I am wondering...my body was set up to produce gobs of estrogen and testosterone before it even needed to be producing these at levels where I would ovulate.
The genetics that set this up are of course very complicated, but I wonder- at the root of what is causing this hormone level in my body is the "signal" you mention.
It makes me think there is something that hasn't been mentioned or figured out yet in swaying that can affect this mechanism- that can guide your body into at least a more balanced and middle ground hormone mix. I think I'll read that wikipedia link but I wonder if there is isn't something more than just behavior modification that can have a dramatic effect on the way a woman's body goes about turning cholesterol into sex hormones.
P.S. I find it so funny that I'm 9 weeks pregnant with a girl through HT and this puzzle STILL gets me!

Please understand that I am not suggesting anyone change their personality in any way. And YES there are things that can guide your body into a more "balanced" (quotes because I don't think having high testosterone is in any way a character flaw and in fact it can and does help people/animals to survive and thrive in certain circumstances) The entire Low-Everything diet, plus exercise/no exercise and weight loss, plus supps like pep tea and saw palmetto, are designed to do just that, but unless people address the demand side of the equation, the diet and supps will be less effective than they would be otherwise.

Could a potential for high cholesterol make you more likely to conceive boys?? Possibly, but there is a lot of data that indicates that there is NO boy or girl gene. My cholesterol is totally normal and I have 4 of the critters. It could very well be NOT your level of testosterone per se, but CHANGES in your testosterone that matter. So someone with sky-high testosterone who is able to reduce that, will still be swaying pink, even if their T stays higher than 80% of all other women.

Testosterone is TOTALLY a chicken-egg kind of thing, a cycle where high T levels make you more likely to seek out stimuli that keep T levels high. Researchers have tested T levels and found that they do indeed rise before competition and winners T levels rise higher still after winning. So it makes total sense to me that by avoiding competition and confrontation, by forgoing making a lot of temp charts and checking your pH every 3 hours, people are doing a lot towards reducing their body's overall demand for testosterone.

[lola111]

The production of testosterone is an unbelievably complicated process described here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Testosterone :omg: Still with me? :rolleyes: The good news is, we don't have to understand all that gobbeldygook to use testosterone (or lack thereof) to our advantage when swaying.

Nutshell version - cholesterol http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cholesterol is the building block of ALL steroid hormones. Your body makes most of its cholesterol and gets a smaller amount via diet (only 10-15% of your cholesterol comes through diet). You DON'T need to eat gargantuan amounts of cholesterol to have plenty of the stuff, your body makes it out of saturated fats and even animal protein itself. In turn, it uses that cholesterol that it made, to build ALL your hormones, progesterone, testosterone, and estrogen alike.

Consequently, you don't have to eat testosterone-producing foods to make testosterone or to have all boys. Some swaying diets have red meat listed as boy-friendly and chicken and eggs listed as girl-friendly, because red meat has testosterone and chicken and eggs have progesterone, but that doesn't matter. Your body MAKES cholesterol out of the saturated fats in ALL meats, eggs, saturated plant fats like coconut, and full-fat dairy foods, and then turns that cholesterol into testosterone, estrogen, and progesterone.

If your body decides to make less testosterone/estrogen and more progesterone, it's not because you're EATING less testosterone and more progesterone, it's because of other cues in your body that send the signal to your body to make less testosterone and more progesterone. In fact, your body produces progesterone BEFORE it makes testosterone, and testosterone is later turned into estrogen. The three are all part of the same process. You cannot divorce the three hormones and treat them in such a simple manner as, "More testosterone and estrogen = boys, more progesterone = girls" because SOMETHING is causing your body to produce these different levels of hormones.

That SOMETHING is the key to gender swaying.

When I talk about testosterone supply and demand, what I'm really saying is that there are (at least) two variables in the equation. One is the amount of raw materials you have available to make testosterone with. So we try and control this amount, firstly through diet. For blue swayers, by eating more saturated fats that raise the so-called "bad" cholesterol and also healthy fats that raise the so-called "good" cholesterol, in addition to other various nutrients that help with the process. For pink swayers, we eat less fat and protein and less of the nutrients that are proven to help your body manufacture testosterone (like Vitamins A and D, among others.)

We also take supplements that raise or lower the amount of testosterone circulating in our bodies, raise or lower the amount of cholesterol that our body turns into testosterone (you can have both high cholesterol and low testosterone if your body is not getting the "signal" to produce testosterone), and even raise or lower the amount of testosterone that our bodies make out of whatever raw materials are available (some foods that lower cholesterol actually raise testosterone, like oats).

But all this is to no avail if we do not address the second half of the equation - DEMAND. Pink swayers, if we do not convince our bodies that we need less testosterone in order to survive, it will carry on producing testosterone using whatever it can scrounge up. And blue swayers, if our bodies don't "think" they need testosterone, and in some instances may even survive better without it, it will salvage its energy for other things and continue on with less testosterone.

Our bodies produce testosterone for SURVIVAL. In nature, dominant animals (both physically and socially dominant) face constant challenges to their authority and need that testosterone to maintain their physical and social superiority and take on challengers. Submissive animals have a much better chance of survival if they are non-confrontational and so their testosterone levels tend to drop if they decline challenges, or lose.

It isn't hard to see how this translates into modern-day life. If you're always taking on challenges, both mental and physical, that you enjoy and you tend to succeed at them, your testosterone levels are probably higher than another person who feels doomed to fail at every endeavor, or who has to struggle and work constantly just to get by, or has been put down and persecuted a lot in life.

Taking it a step further to swaying...

(Note - No one needs to take offense at any of this, it's meant to be general observations and conjecture and not extrapolate to every person. Keep in mind that there are many factors that sway such as smoking and skipping breakfast, which have NOTHING to do with testosterone or dominance whatsoever.)

A lot of boy-moms (aka pink swayers) have tended to be very much go-getters with a tendency to get SUPERobsessed with the details of everything in life, and having the "perfect" sway is just another thing to obsess over. I have seen some boy-moms even say point blank that the reason their GD was so bad is because getting a daughter was the only thing in life that they hadn't "accomplished" and they view swaying as a challenge to be overcome and a prize to be won.

Some of the blue swayers, on the other hand, have been more easily overwhelmed by swaying and feel that they literally CAN'T conceive a baby boy because something is wrong with them or they are being punished in some way. I have also noticed (and this is just a generalization and in no way meant to be offensive to anyone at all) that ~some~ of the girl-moms desperately want sons not for themselves, but for others - their husbands, fathers, or society at large.

Going back to the idea of an equation, it is GREAT for our sway if we do everything we can to increase or limit the supply of raw materials for our body to manufacture into testosterone. But unless we address the demand aspect and work on changing our habits and attitudes as well, our body may simply continue on as it was. Swaying can even aggravate this by making blue swayers feel terribly pressured and discouraged and lowering their testosterone, or making pink swayers focus too much on details and obsessing over every aspect of their sway and raising their levels.

Supply + Demand = testosterone. Even if your supply drops to ZERO (which is impossible because your body will do ANYTHING to keep you alive, even down to making testosterone out of your last cubic centimeter of body fat), if your body senses that you need testosterone, it will continue making it. And even if you have sky high cholesterol, if your body thinks that high testosterone will reduce your overall odds of survival (animals who are physically less able to defend themselves are ill-suited to getting into a lot of fights or even just asserting themselves socially)it will not use that cholesterol to raise your testosterone levels.

Non-diet and supps ways of increasing demand and raising your testosterone levels - Weight training and moderate exercise (they emulate taking on and overcoming physical challenges) - possibly even something that involves fighting like kickboxing or TaeBo, getting enough sleep, taking on and overcoming challenges (these don't have to be big things, even something small like driving to a new part of town or playing board games with your kids can help), and putting yourself in a position of authority over others can help to raise your testosterone levels. Above all, try to focus on the positive...you CAN conceive a son and if swaying begins to feel overwhelming and undoable to you, take a break and regroup.

Ways of decreasing demand and lowering your testosterone levels - Either NO exercise or extreme exercise, minimum 60 minutes a day, 6-7 days a week (makes your body think you're either keeping your head down and avoid notice, or you're having to work very hard just to survive), getting less sleep than normal, and walking away from arguments and declining challenges that you would ordinarily take on. Above all, you must NOT get obsessed over swaying. If you know you're prone to that kind of thinking, do not include any of the more nitpicky swaying aspects like timing that take a lot of constant monitoring and tracking, because it just keeps it in the forefront of your mind constantly.

Aside from sheer bad luck, testosterone levels are the number one reason why good sways fail. It's not enough just to affect your supply, you must also address demand, in order for your sway to succeed.

Hello atomic

You mentioned you were on low testosterone diet. I have got my results back looks like I have high testosterone. What foods did you eat and which foods did you avoid? Did you take any supplements?

Any help would be much appreciated :))

x

[atomic sagebrush]

Hello atomic

You mentioned you were on low testosterone diet. I have got my results back looks like I have high testosterone. What foods did you eat and which foods did you avoid? Did you take any supplements?

Any help would be much appreciated :))

x

First of all hi and welcome! Glad you found us! Please check out these links, they'll get you started on all the info on the site. http://genderdreaming.com/forum/showthread.php?3305-The-COMPLETE-Index!!!

If you really, truly have clinically high testosterone, you'll need to get medicine from your doctor that will lower it. That is GOOD news if you want a baby girl!

Whenever you lose weight on a low calorie (1500-1800), low protein (40-50 g), low fat (20-30%), low nutrient diet (avoiding big doses of nutrients in vitamin supps and lots of colorful fruits and vegetables, though you can have some), you will be doing a lot towards lowering your testosterone levels. And by keeping your sodium and blood sugar low, while lowering your husband's sperm count at the same time, that is the "Low Everything" sway in a nutshell. You'll find more info about this in the index above. I have begun to write a diet plan based on this info and it's available in the Dream Members section. Or, you can do one of the other diets (we also have the French Gender Diet which can also help lower your testosterone, in the Dream Members section, the IG diet which is available on the In-GEnder site, or even just becoming a vegetarian/vegan will help lower your T levels.)

[lindi]

Could a potential for high cholesterol make you more likely to conceive boys?? Possibly, but there is a lot of data that indicates that there is NO boy or girl gene. My cholesterol is totally normal and I have 4 of the critters. It could very well be NOT your level of testosterone per se, but CHANGES in your testosterone that matter. So someone with sky-high testosterone who is able to reduce that, will still be swaying pink, even if their T stays higher than 80% of all other women.

Testosterone is TOTALLY a chicken-egg kind of thing, a cycle where high T levels make you more likely to seek out stimuli that keep T levels high. Researchers have tested T levels and found that they do indeed rise before competition and winners T levels rise higher still after winning. So it makes total sense to me that by avoiding competition and confrontation, by forgoing making a lot of temp charts and checking your pH every 3 hours, people are doing a lot towards reducing their body's overall demand for testosterone.

Well, no the idea wasn't that all boy moms have high cholesterol, since clearly all women with high T don;t even have high cholesterol- but there could be several factors- the way your body converts the cholesterol you do make into T is interesting to me. I did some reading on people who are genetically prone to high cholesterol, and the genes responsible basically make it very hard for your body to rid itself of LDL, so you just have too much circulating that can't be cleared out. Now this could be a swaying boy factor in *some* women, and clearly not all women who have all boys would have this gene, but its interesting because the high T and high estrogen so perfectly create the boy friendly environment so perhaps something could be learned from this?
What are all the various mechanisms in the boys that would result in high estrogen and high testosterone? One could very clearly be the *choice* to follow an obsessive, detail oriented or confrontational path, watch sports, etc. Another could be high cholesterol, another could be something that causes what cholesetrol you do have to convert to estrogen at a higher rate or to testosterone....
I am a huge fan of the low everything diet as it makes the best sense in terms of a swaying tool. I was just curious about what mechanisms in the body are creating the boy friendly body which aren't lifestyle choices.

[atomic sagebrush]

Sorry, I'm not trying to be argumentative and dissent is ALWAYS welcome on this board. I know you are just thinking out loud and I think you bring up an intriguing idea.

Personally I hesitate to attribute gender ratio to genetic factors. There are real logical reasons why it's unlikely that genetics play much of a role at all in gender ratio (I need to do an essay on why this is but nutshell version it's because genes are more likely to survive when your body can somewhat control the gender of your offspring for maximum survival...the woman who is "genetically predestined" to have only, or even mostly sons, is going to be at a major disadvantage when Og the Caveman takes over the tribe and kills off all the other males, or during the years when food is scarce and all the boys born either die or grow up extremely puny. Mother Nature does not want us to put all our eggs in one basket, literally and figuratively.

Plus, it is very discouraging to people to think that they are genetically programmed for only one gender and since I don't think the facts support it, I tend to argue against that viewpoint, even though it gives me some measure of peace of mind to think that maybe I have 4 boys for some hardwired biological reason rather than that God hates me LOLOLOLOLOL!!!! :) ;)

[lindi]

Sorry, I'm not trying to be argumentative and dissent is ALWAYS welcome on this board. I know you are just thinking out loud and I think you bring up an intriguing idea.

Personally I hesitate to attribute gender ratio to genetic factors. There are real logical reasons why it's unlikely that genetics play much of a role at all in gender ratio (I need to do an essay on why this is but nutshell version it's because genes are more likely to survive when your body can somewhat control the gender of your offspring for maximum survival...the woman who is "genetically predestined" to have only, or even mostly sons, is going to be at a major disadvantage when Og the Caveman takes over the tribe and kills off all the other males, or during the years when food is scarce and all the boys born either die or grow up extremely puny. Mother Nature does not want us to put all our eggs in one basket, literally and figuratively.

Plus, it is very discouraging to people to think that they are genetically programmed for only one gender and since I don't think the facts support it, I tend to argue against that viewpoint, even though it gives me some measure of peace of mind to think that maybe I have 4 boys for some hardwired biological reason rather than that God hates me LOLOLOLOLOL!!!! :) ;)

Yeah, for sure- I can see this is a defeating kind of line of thought. If your body's genes are steering you towards one gender, how can you compete with that? And you're right- how nonsensical would it be if a woman could only make one gender? Especially since if the boy friendly environment in her body was caused by something that's actually not healthy like plaque filled arteries? And especially since there is so much evidence that environmental factors affect gender ratio.
I wonder if there is something we could control in this though.

[atomic sagebrush]

Diet, weight loss, and supps CAN lower cholesterol and testosterone.

[lola111]

First of all hi and welcome! Glad you found us! Please check out these links, they'll get you started on all the info on the site. http://genderdreaming.com/forum/showthread.php?3305-The-COMPLETE-Index!!!

If you really, truly have clinically high testosterone, you'll need to get medicine from your doctor that will lower it. That is GOOD news if you want a baby girl!

Whenever you lose weight on a low calorie (1500-1800), low protein (40-50 g), low fat (20-30%), low nutrient diet (avoiding big doses of nutrients in vitamin supps and lots of colorful fruits and vegetables, though you can have some), you will be doing a lot towards lowering your testosterone levels. And by keeping your sodium and blood sugar low, while lowering your husband's sperm count at the same time, that is the "Low Everything" sway in a nutshell. You'll find more info about this in the index above. I have begun to write a diet plan based on this info and it's available in the Dream Members section. Or, you can do one of the other diets (we also have the French Gender Diet which can also help lower your testosterone, in the Dream Members section, the IG diet which is available on the In-GEnder site, or even just becoming a vegetarian/vegan will help lower your T levels.)

Thank you so much for your reply atomic! you explain everything so well :))
I guess I do need to do more tests to be absolutely sure

xxxx

[atomic sagebrush]

Quick question - did your doctor tell you that you have high T or did you interpret your own lab results??

[atomic sagebrush]

Yeah, for sure- I can see this is a defeating kind of line of thought. If your body's genes are steering you towards one gender, how can you compete with that? And you're right- how nonsensical would it be if a woman could only make one gender? Especially since if the boy friendly environment in her body was caused by something that's actually not healthy like plaque filled arteries? And especially since there is so much evidence that environmental factors affect gender ratio.
I wonder if there is something we could control in this though.

Just to TOTALLY go off on a tangent LOL but cholesterol may not be the demon that it's made out to be. There are probably very real benefits to high cholesterol (a big juicy brain being one of them and ample supply of sex hormones are another) that have kept your ancestors alive long enough to successfully reproduce/raise babies for millions of years. Some things that were benefits in the prehistoric environment are detriments in the modern world, and in that same prehistoric world, people may not have needed to live beyond 50-60. If you start having babies at 15, your children will almost certainly be grown adults with kids of their own before teh cholesterol begins to cause trouble.

[lindi]

Just to TOTALLY go off on a tangent LOL but cholesterol may not be the demon that it's made out to be. There are probably very real benefits to high cholesterol (a big juicy brain being one of them and ample supply of sex hormones are another) that have kept your ancestors alive long enough to successfully reproduce/raise babies for millions of years. Some things that were benefits in the prehistoric environment are detriments in the modern world, and in that same prehistoric world, people may not have needed to live beyond 50-60. If you start having babies at 15, your children will almost certainly be grown adults with kids of their own before teh cholesterol begins to cause trouble.

True I suppose you would die of other things before heart disease in caveman days. I personally don't see high cholesterol as a huge demon- except if it is a result of chronic inflammation or something. And my high cholesterol has not been something that has ever caused a single problem- even the testosterone that once measured as high, I don't have the kinds of side effects that I would find unpleasant- like hair in places I don't want it! And the detail obsessive thing is very nice it keeps you focused!
But yes, it isn't the only thing that created a boy baby in my body that's for sure, it a bigger puzzle.

[atomic sagebrush]

Oh and I do want to point out one other thing - if you've had only one or even two of a particular gender, I don't think anyone should decide on that basis that they're "set" for conceiving ONLY that gender. Most women walking around out there living their lives have never even thought about any of this stuff and yet have kids of both genders totally accidentally.

[zanacal]

I was thinking today that most of my friends who have boy/girl children had their girls first and boys second. Why would that be do you think? Perhaps it's just the pattern with my own group of friends and not in general.

[swish]

No, I've noticed this too! Inwondered whether it's the tendency to put on a bit of weight as you get older/have children

[zanacal]

Yes, I thought that too - but on the other hand aren't you more likely to have a girl the older you get? I don't suppose any of these friends have waited very long between children (so they aren't that much older) and a lot of people have children of both sexes without even thinking about it. Perhaps their T levels are middle of the road and not at the extremes - just thought it odd that it went in that order so often!

[swish]

I really think the genders of people i know mostly make sense. Like you said very few people have a big gap, I don't know many and those that do tend to have a boy then a girl. I definately know more people with girl, boy than boy, girl. I'm getting pretty good at predicting gender of people I know quite well, just hope it all works for us!!!

[zanacal]

Literally all my friends have one of each!

[swish]

I know a real variety but quite a few with 2 or 3 boys

[Tiggerian]

Oh dear God it all makes sense now!

I have always been a no-nonsense, take charge, don't put up with nothing kinda person. The natural leader person who was class rep, president of the student council. And my partner is quiet, arty, doesn't like confrontation while I'm all out there - arms flailing and shrieking like a banshee! My OH makes fun of how uptight I am and how intolerant I get.. O_O And I am totally obsessive - I stood for 3 hours pushing a DvD in and out of our telly to get it to work because i rented the dvd and there was no way in HELL i was NOT gonna watch it... My OH gave up after 15 minutes!

So basically, mama needs to take one hell of a chill pill and a big deep breath.. count to ten!!!! More yoga and meditation for me (I do yoga purely for relaxation, non muscle building.. helps me chill out when I go OTT with stress over my life, which isn't actually stressful at all!)

[babydust]

Glad this thread has been bumped up! First time
I'm seeing it, such great info atomic! And rings VERY True for me. Both in respect to when I conceived my DS and then later on, my DD.

Before I conceive my DS I was teaching ( so in a position of authority), and constantly
Tackling situations at work.

And as atomic said, I was very swaycessed researching about my girl sway, but I took a long break from it and
conceived a girl. I still did a strict sway but I knew so much that I didn't have to think about it much and just had fun with it all.

This time ( don't know the gender yet), I had a very laid back attitude and was doing a lot to promote relaxation anyway, while still having a pretty darn good sway too I think. Haha. We'll see, only time
Will tell, but either way, regardless, I fully 100% agree with low T is very girl
Friendly! :)

[Plantain]

This is really interesting to me. Pretty much everything you said about Blue Swayers, Atomic, fit me to a T. I feel unable to succeed so much of the time, I'm very submissive/apathetic so as to avoid conflict. I'd rather everyone else be happy (and by extension happy with me), rather than competing for my way. I'm just not very competative at all!
(The upside of low testosterone is that I have great skin, no acne ever!)
Maybe I need to find some video games to play to up my competative drive.

[atomic sagebrush]

I think that is a very good idea (the video games!!)

[Alicewonder]

Interesting! I find myself mixed. I'm deffinatly a person who gets tunnel vision ( and goes down rabbit holes)

Same time I get overwhelmed and feel like I can't win. Like this just won't happen for me I'm asking for too much. I tend to worry.

Wonder what course is best for me. I'm trying to focus more on doing things in our home and feeling accomplished however, is this harmful to my PINK sway?

[atomic sagebrush]

Interesting! I find myself mixed. I'm deffinatly a person who gets tunnel vision ( and goes down rabbit holes)

Same time I get overwhelmed and feel like I can't win. Like this just won't happen for me I'm asking for too much. I tend to worry.

Wonder what course is best for me. I'm trying to focus more on doing things in our home and feeling accomplished however, is this harmful to my PINK sway?

I think this is one of those things that you shouldn't overthink. Just avoid taking on big new exciting projects and competitive type things.

[sbowman]

I'm so glad I read this. At first I thought, nah that's not me. But the more I dwell on it, the more I think it's completely true! :( I have been looking at swaying as this big project (without meaning to) with the baby girl as the prize. I was tackling it in my usual manner, full force planning mode. I bet my T levels are through the roof. I've only conceived two boys so far but I'm pretty certain I would be on my way to a third if I had kept up in this manner. Now that I'm aware of how to not go about it, I think I have a better shot. And I am a totally competitive, confrontational person. I don't take crap from nobody. Ughhhh. Well it looks like I will most certainly be purchasing a swaying plan, because all this planning is not good for me.

[atomic sagebrush]

It was really funny back on IG, sometimes people would get into these huge debates about the DUMBEST stuff and it was like 95% boy moms. The girl moms are too smart to get into it! :p

[sammysam]

thankyou!! I can be pretty fiery sometimes and my OH and little boy are both 'hot heads' and can be hard work .... so I need to learn to be a bit calmer and to not yell as much!... deep breaths!!

[jennypenny]

Great thread, have not read this one before. Definitely describes me to a tee!

How to go about being calmer an less controlling is the tricky bit!

[atomic sagebrush]

You don't try to be calmer and less controlling. That in and of itself is an attempt to control the uncontrollable.

Whenever anyone tries to do that, they just exchange worrying over "whatever it is" for worrying over not being calm. It doesn't work.

What you need to do is accept that there are things in the world that are out of your control that you can do nothing about and one of them is that you have a tendency to be a control freak. Over time, acknowledging this may help a little bit and also the diet does seem to help some of us simmer down a bit over the course of time.

[goodmom]

Great thread Atomic... specially the part where u said most blue swayers doesnt want boy for them it usually is a pressure from hubby , environment extra ... plus like me i always easily think tht its was my fault ...i mean really i do have tht kind of attitude and my sister who gave birth to my adorable nephew has an attitude like " m always right" lol i love her ... thx for the article atomic

[instant]

I got my testosterone tested.. I was at the lower part of the range..

[atomic sagebrush]

We do not have any hard data that proves that blood levels of testosterone mean anything at all for swaying.

Since I wrote this essay in 2011 there is a lot about "testosterone" and swaying that doesn't totally add up to me. I DO ABSOLUTELY still think that the personality stuff I wrote about it in this essay applies, but women have miniscule amounts of testosterone and it's been shown in studies that female T levels are not affecting women's personalities so I am not really sure we're even talking about "testosterone" in and of itself.

I continue to use "testosterone" for a short and easy way to talk about personality factors for swaying, but just understand that having a low T blood test may not mean anything at all for your sway (and probably doesn't because we have had people who had low or high T getting kids of both genders)

[instant]

Thank you for this.. I'm very interested in this topic considering both I and DH suffer from testosterone issues.

[atomic sagebrush]

bump