Sperm dilemma - again

[Zivic-Bubac]

I was reading this excellent thread http://genderdreaming.com/forum/showthread.php?3541-Does-freshest-sperm-always-win-out-over-older-sperm-for-timing/page6&highlight=fresh+sperm but I feel like I still need 'yes' or 'no' answer to this question.

Does the older sperm always win the race? Yes or no?

For example: let's say BD happened 4 days before O (DBO) and then again some 12-20 hours before O. Fresh sperm has more then enough time to capacitate ( it takes only 4 hours right?)
Is it about that older sperm have 'better starting positions'? LOL!

I'm sorry for asking this again, but I've done this this cycle :oops:

[TTC5]

Good questions!

[Zivic-Bubac]

Or did I optimized sperm count and gave myself better chances for :xy: ? :think:
Can you tell I'm interpreting things the way they suite me? :rofl:

[TTC5]

I think you had heaps of time between the two bd's :) Think you are safe!! xx

[babydes56]

I dont know the answer & would love to know. When did you dtd & how many times, sorry forgot. The thing is there have been boys made with dtd 2 days before O & again 48hrs later so if the the theory holds that the older sperm get there first then that surely would be a girl from the 2 days before ovulation, wouldnt it

[LolaInLove]

GOOD QUESTION, I have no idea!

[begonia]

I read this thread too wondering the same thing, ZB ... esp. wondering if having more sperm there (from DTD 2x near O, 48 hours apart) wouldn't be upping the "sperm count" and we all know high sperm count = blue. Maybe "sperm count" means something different than the total number of sperm? I can understand where the count in each BD goes down with high frequency, that makes sense to me, that the stores aren't replenished quickly, so with each consecutive BD the count for THAT BD goes down. But the TOTAL sperm there would still be up.

So what I don't understand is why having a higher TOTAL number of sperm (from combining the 2 amounts) wouldn't be maximizing the count there in the tubes thereby swaying blue. BUT if that was true then frequent BD would sway blue, and it doesn't. So, to me, it seems there has to be something to the timing issue as well, right? It would seem to me that for frequent BD/low sperm count to sway pink, one of the freshest sperm (therefore those from the lowest sperm count batch, if a couple was BD every day) must be the ones to get the egg.

I think I've offered more questions than answers but this topic gets me a little confused! I wonder if there is a definitive answer?

[atomic sagebrush]

I was reading this excellent thread http://genderdreaming.com/forum/showthread.php?3541-Does-freshest-sperm-always-win-out-over-older-sperm-for-timing/page6&highlight=fresh+sperm but I feel like I still need 'yes' or 'no' answer to this question.

Does the older sperm always win the race? Yes or no?

For example: let's say BD happened 4 days before O (DBO) and then again some 12-20 hours before O. Fresh sperm has more then enough time to capacitate ( it takes only 4 hours right?)
Is it about that older sperm have 'better starting positions'? LOL!

I'm sorry for asking this again, but I've done this this cycle :oops:

Older sperm does not always win the race. As long as the fresh sperm has time to capacitate, it has just as good odds of success as older sperm.

[atomic sagebrush]

I dont know the answer & would love to know. When did you dtd & how many times, sorry forgot. The thing is there have been boys made with dtd 2 days before O & again 48hrs later so if the the theory holds that the older sperm get there first then that surely would be a girl from the 2 days before ovulation, wouldnt it

If timing matters in any real, tangible way, which it almost certainly doesn't.

[atomic sagebrush]

I read this thread too wondering the same thing, ZB ... esp. wondering if having more sperm there (from DTD 2x near O, 48 hours apart) wouldn't be upping the "sperm count" and we all know high sperm count = blue. Maybe "sperm count" means something different than the total number of sperm? I can understand where the count in each BD goes down with high frequency, that makes sense to me, that the stores aren't replenished quickly, so with each consecutive BD the count for THAT BD goes down. But the TOTAL sperm there would still be up.

So what I don't understand is why having a higher TOTAL number of sperm (from combining the 2 amounts) wouldn't be maximizing the count there in the tubes thereby swaying blue. BUT if that was true then frequent BD would sway blue, and it doesn't. So, to me, it seems there has to be something to the timing issue as well, right? It would seem to me that for frequent BD/low sperm count to sway pink, one of the freshest sperm (therefore those from the lowest sperm count batch, if a couple was BD every day) must be the ones to get the egg.

I think I've offered more questions than answers but this topic gets me a little confused! I wonder if there is a definitive answer?

Sperm count means the number of sperm that exit your husband's testicles. Sperm "numbers" mean the number of sperm that are in the reproductive tract waiting for the egg (at least that's what I've been saying). So YES, I think that BD 2 times around O, once 2 DBO and then again at O, does indeed optimize chances for blue. But I know that a lot of people do not want to DTD 2 DBO because they are scared of girl timing.

The reason why frequent BD through O sways pink is because it reduces sperm count so much. High normal sperm count is 80 million sperm (or more) while low normal sperm count is 20 million (or less). So if a couple with high normal sperm count BD at 2 DBO and then again at O, they could potentially have 160 million sperm on the scene, all within the window of highest fertility, with the most EWCM on the scene to aid sperm survival. Whereas with frequent BD causing low normal sperm count (or even lower), the same couple would have to DTD 8 times (even if they release inside the woman) to get to that level of sperm numbers. Every day that passes, most if not all of those earliest-arriving sperm will die off so even under optimal sperm survival environment, there is NO WAY that frequent BD can yield the kind of sperm numbers that DTD once or twice at O can and if some of those releases are outside the woman's body, even more so.

Also, if you look at it as a part of a larger sway, blue swayers should be doing everything in their power to increase sperm count and health, while making their vajayjay as sperm-friendly as possible (so more sperm survive and for longer, with higher sperm numbers at egg). Pink swayers, in addition to frequent BD through O, should be doing everything in their power to reduce sperm count and health (a little bit anyway), while making their vjs hostile to sperm, which will further reduce sperm numbers at the egg.

Boy sway - BD once or twice around O for highest sperm count while optimizing female environment for maximum sperm survival rates.

Pink sway - Either abstain or frequent release for lower sperm count while making female environment as harsh as possible to kill off as many sperm as possible while still allowing for pregnancy (because it takes more than one sperm to fertilize an egg!!!)

Hope that makes sense.

[LolaInLove]

Perfect sense, thanks Atomic!!!

[Flava]

Older sperm does not always win the race. As long as the fresh sperm has time to capacitate, it has just as good odds of success as older sperm.

I was thinking about this too...but then why DTD twice if the new sperms are most likely are winning?
Just to have more hanging around in there ? But more sperm means more xx too and not just xy. Now that's scares me.
This is why I did msu to try to get rid of the xx and put mostly xy in there . Well it didn't worked.
BUt I had 4 msu bfp not 1 so I guess I never know if I got a boy pregnancy with it or not.

[atomic sagebrush]

I was thinking about this too...but then why DTD twice if the new sperms are most likely are winning?
Just to have more hanging around in there ? But more sperm means more xx too and not just xy. Now that's scares me.
This is why I did msu to try to get rid of the xx and put mostly xy in there . Well it didn't worked.
BUt I had 4 msu bfp not 1 so I guess I never know if I got a boy pregnancy with it or not.

:( (((hugs flava)))

The reason to DTD twice is just to raise the sperm numbers (and also pH because the semen will help keep pH high).

I wish I could give a big scientific reason for this but it is an unknown. For SOME reason that we don't know why or how, everything that raises sperm count and makes sperm healthy, plus everything that helps sperm stay alive a long time in the vj, seems to sway blue. Consequently, I think it just makes sense to reinact those conditions for a blue sway. Yes, there will be more X in addition to Y but SOMETHING is making the Y win the race.

Remember, even in Ericcson, the sperm numbers were at 50-50 but the pregnancy rates were different?? So we know for a fact that it isn't the percentage of X and Y sperm that are swaying, it's something else.

[Zivic-Bubac]

everything that raises sperm count and makes sperm healthy, plus everything that helps sperm stay alive a long time in the vj, seems to sway blue. Consequently, I think it just makes sense to reinact those conditions for a blue sway. Yes, there will be more X in addition to Y but SOMETHING is making the Y win the race.

Remember, even in Ericcson, the sperm numbers were at 50-50 but the pregnancy rates were different?? So we know for a fact that it isn't the percentage of X and Y sperm that are swaying, it's something else. This is EXCELLENT Atomic, thank you!

[Flava]

Now see I didn't even thought of the ph thing!! Yeah so semen would keep it higher that's great:agree:
omg first I "let" you guys talk me in to ttc again and now maybe to dtd twice?:nyd:
lol this is crazy

[LolaInLove]

You are gonna do it, Flava, and have a BOY this time! DO IT, DO IT!!!! But seriously, believe in yourself and your ability to achieve this. Like in Atomic's post about raising T levels, you have to think of this as a challenge that you are gonna take on and WIN, and that will make you more boy-friendly and happy at the same time!

[begonia]

Atomic you have a gift for making the complex simple. Seriously. When you break it down it all makes perfect sense.

I particularly like the comment that Flava noted too ... the pH of the other sperm there can aid in keeping the pH up. That's good news for someone like me, b/c while I quit testing mine awhile ago, I quit bc it was low and I didn't see it moving. So I like that maybe DTD 2x helped a bit in the pH department.

Flava ITA with Lola! You HAVE to get positive about it girl! You just have to! I know you're coming from a different place than most of us since you did sway (and HARD) last time and still got an opposite, so I completely see where you're having a harder time being optimistic. But I really, really believe that you have to tie in some faith in your future here. Are you lifting weights at all? I have to say when I was in the gym I felt so strong and so SURE that I was going to have a boy. It was definitely good for my T levels AND my hope levels! I'm not very new-agey in general, but I do think there is something to believing that what you want can and will happen. You CAN do this!!! You have been rocking the diet, and IMO that is what is key, for MONTHS before your sway. This sway surely has sooooo much different than your last one, right? Believe it! DO IT as Lola said :-)

[Flava]

Thanks girls! Im sure thinking today I will ttc in Sept.! But Im having a good day LOL
Also trying to believe...well I didn't sway much with DD3 just did Shettles (or is that shitless? )ahemm anyway I was so sure she was a boy paid for 2 u/s because I just did not wanted to believe it's not a boy.
Anyway believing was not helping:sad:
So i have to come up with something else this time.
But I do lifting weight almost every day doing this diet so maybe this time....have to eat more potato for sure and oh be better on the damn breakfast!:mad:
Omg I just hate that! How can some1 crawl out of the bed and eat right away?
This is the hardest part of the diet for me!!! And why we have to eat in 30 min? Who came up with 30 min???:hair: I have to say most of the time i just CAN'T DO IT!!!
And I have to get good at it because I really need to do everything right after this AF so I have 3 months great on all.ahhhhh

[Zivic-Bubac]

Flava - I had major troubles with breakfast, I'm just not hungry before like noon lol!
Here is what I did: when I crawl out of the bed (after bathroom of course :wink:) I immediately take glass of lemon water which take me 2 seconds and then 1 banana which is about 5 sec, so I have enough time to prepare myself and girls.
Sometimes I take some oat cereals with full fat yogurt and then dress DD2, then go back to the kitchen and take 1 more spoon, then put make-up , back to kitchen for more cereals, you got the idea....

That way the breakfast torture lasts longer but at least I know I'm done with it.

[zanacal]

Ladies, I insist you start enjoying that breakfast on my behalf! It's so funny that you have girls and can't face breakfast yet here I am with my 3 boys and it's nearly killing me not having my favourite meal of the day!!

[Flava]

omg lemon water and banana? no no no ! There is no way I can start like that. I just cant eat fruit on the morning.
usually what I do is some honey cherios with raisins and a little whole milk. yuck to all...
And to enjoy all this?? no way it's torture!

[Zivic-Bubac]

it's nearly killing me not having my favourite meal of the day!! LOL Zani!
You know, my sister has 1 boy ( only child) and she and I have pretty much the same eating habits and we like the same food, with one big difference: she always eats her breakfast ( although she never eats cereals for brekkie), but still, it makes me wonder......

[gizmo77]

Flava - I had major troubles with breakfast, I'm just not hungry before like noon lol!
Here is what I did: when I crawl out of the bed (after bathroom of course :wink:) I immediately take glass of lemon water which take me 2 seconds and then 1 banana which is about 5 sec, so I have enough time to prepare myself and girls.
Sometimes I take some oat cereals with full fat yogurt and then dress DD2, then go back to the kitchen and take 1 more spoon, then put make-up , back to kitchen for more cereals, you got the idea....

That way the breakfast torture lasts longer but at least I know I'm done with it.



you have time for make up?!??!
;-)))

[LolaInLove]

Zan, did you eat cereal and lighter breakfast or do eggs and bacon and toast and the like? I am really convinced about breakfast now....I keep meeting too many ladies who eat hearty in the morning and have boys. And see, I never ate it before either! I like coffee right away, and then am hungry around 10-11am. (I get up at 6am normally.) Now I try to eat a hard-boiled egg and some nuts and a banana at 9am at the latest. I need to really up the ante in the next few weeks for an attempt around the end of the month!

[LolaInLove]

you have time for make up?!??!
;-)))

Oh my lord, you should see my life....I have to look all dressed up every day for work with hair and makeup and schnazzy outfits. HATE IT! I look like a homeless lady on the weekends!

[zanacal]

Zan, did you eat cereal and lighter breakfast or do eggs and bacon and toast and the like? I am really convinced about breakfast now....I keep meeting too many ladies who eat hearty in the morning and have boys. And see, I never ate it before either! I like coffee right away, and then am hungry around 10-11am. (I get up at 6am normally.) Now I try to eat a hard-boiled egg and some nuts and a banana at 9am at the latest. I need to really up the ante in the next few weeks for an attempt around the end of the month!

My favourite easy breakfast is probably marmite on toast. I like cereal too but I find it doesn't fill me up as well - so often I would have cereal AND marmite toast! At weekends when I have more time I'd often have baked beans or scrambled eggs on toast or a bacon sandwich. I have to stop talking about it now as I'm dribbling a little bit ...

[gizmo77]

Oh my lord, you should see my life....I have to look all dressed up every day for work with hair and makeup and schnazzy outfits. HATE IT! I look like a homeless lady on the weekends!



:rofl:

[gizmo77]

My favourite easy breakfast is probably marmite on toast. I like cereal too but I find it doesn't fill me up as well - so often I would have cereal AND marmite toast! At weekends when I have more time I'd often have baked beans or scrambled eggs on toast or a bacon sandwich. I have to stop talking about it now as I'm dribbling a little bit ...



ahahah! i think thats the biggest prob for me..TIME to make it all. i could prob get it down, but i have to feed the rugrats first, clean up, etc...maybe ill makeit the night before..eww..leftover eggs???

[begonia]

ahahah! i think thats the biggest prob for me..TIME to make it all. i could prob get it down, but i have to feed the rugrats first, clean up, etc...maybe ill makeit the night before..eww..leftover eggs???

Ewww! Gizmo I boiled 1/2 dozen eggs at a time so it took no time to have them in the am. And my grocery store actually sells pre-boiled, peeled eggs! They're made by Egglands best. Can't get any faster/easier than that!

[zanacal]

Stick with marmite toast or cereal on the days you're in a hurry and have the cooked breakfasts at weekends!

[LolaInLove]

Marmite is that brown spread stuff with yeast in it, no?

[zanacal]

Yes, might be called yeast extract or vegemite and I believe it's fabulous for a blue sway :D

[LolaInLove]

I may pick some of that up, I've seen it in the spread aisle. Thanks, Zan! You should definitely eat my pink breakfast of NOTHING, hopefully the pain is worth it!

Ya know, I was telling someone the other day that I would much rather sway pink than blue.....eating a lot when you are not used to it makes me feel like I'm stuffing my face all day....not to mention we are much less attractive than the pink ladies now!

[zanacal]

I'm not enjoying your pink breakfast at all but I'm sticking with it :D The only benefit is losing weight and looking better - and of course I'd much rather sway blue, but I guess I already did that 3 times!!

[atomic sagebrush]

Stick with marmite toast or cereal on the days you're in a hurry and have the cooked breakfasts at weekends!

There is also the option of nuts for breakfast. It's worked for me and I swear you can go all morning on those things.