35+ FR how many attempts?

[CattyPad]

Hello,
I have just studied one of the essays posted by atomic (the how many attempts one) (Thank you so much by the way for all your time and effort and the amazing info).

Basically I have one boy and we are TTC girl starting next month, my son was conceived with dtd every 5-7 days so I figured we will try FR this time. I am 37 so I worry about limiting my chances too much. I was going to FR +1 attempt, is that too much of a gamble cause of my age?
And,
I am rubbish with the whole ovulation thing, if I get a predictor, you know those that tell you your two most fertile days, when will O-3 be? When in my cycle should I start using the opk? And then, Shall we do O-3 and O-2 then stop?

I have read and re read everything a trillion times but I am not too clear on what to do.
Many many thanks!!

[covered in blue]

If you get the opk then just BD once when you get a positive. With the FR I guess it depends how your DH feels about it. It doesn't seem to be swaying much, if at all (check out the stats). For marital harmony you can just DTD with protection, and let him release whenever he wants in between attempts. All the best for your sway!

[atomic sagebrush]

no, it's not a gamble at all to start off wiht one attempt. Several of us have gotten burned by thinking "OMG I"m over 35 so that means I must be infertile and have to do EVERYTHING possible to improve my odds of conception" only to turn around and improve ourselves right into another boy LOL.

I think you need to drop timing RIGHT NOW though. That WILL cut your odds of conception considerably and it doesn't work either. http://genderdreaming.com/forum/gender-swaying-general-discussion/7691-trouble-timing.html

My advice is to do one of the following:

Best sway, lowest odds of conception, highest stress: Have DH release 7-10 days straight and then go for one attempt at pos OPK

Compromise (still good sway, better odds conception, lowest stress): DTD every 4 days thru fertile window

"worst" sway but still pretty good, highest odds conception, medium stress: DTD every 4 days thru fertile window plus one attempt at pos OPK

[CattyPad]

Thank you covered :)

Thanks atomic for your reply and thank you for everything you do and share with us, it's amazing!

I just worry cause it took us one year to conceive our DS but to be honest we weren't actively seeking pregnancy, I just dropped contraception and let nature take its (long) course ;) but now I am "in a hurry" cause of my age and cause I want my children to be close in age. I had a cesarean though so I had to wait a year to TTC again.

Anyway your post raises some questions if you don't mind please...I really really appreciate your help as I am stressing!! And I don't want that extra testosterone lol.

Option one: do you mean as soon as I get a positive opk? That would be o-2 ish more or less? (I have never used them and I am new to this)

Option two: doesn't bd every 4 days sway boy?? And, would we do FR before this? And by fertile window I assume you mean from first positive opk?

Please excuse my million questions!! We are only having one more baby so the pressure is on lol!

[TishTashTosh]

Option 1 - yes as soon as you get positive on opk. I think best to buy cheap ones on internet and then test mid morning and late afternoon/early eve to make sure you don't miss your surge.

Option 2 - I thought this was recommended as it should mean one attempt at O without the stress of working out exactly when O is.

Good luck x



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[The Anchor]

You will O within 8 - 48 hours of first +OPK. Those are the outside limits, and it's probably more like 24 - 36 hours.

Your fertile window is about 4-5 days in length. If you are not doing OPKs (low stress), then BDing every 4 days after AF leaves town will guarantee that you get one attempt in during your window, regardless of when you O.

[atomic sagebrush]

1)Yes, or sometime around about there. Doesn't need to be that second or anything, that night is fine or even the next morning. Yes between 24-36 hours before O is the average.

2)We once thought that it would but over time it has grown more apparent that the rate at which DH ejaculates isn't doing as much as we thought it would (if in fact it does anything, which it is seeming more and more like it isn't) and instead, having one attempt in the fertile window (simply put - any time you could conceive, typically O-3 thru O day) IS working. None of us predicted that, but it's apparently working some sort of mojo - for now we can only guess at why.

Thus, since "swaycession" does seem to sway strongly blue, and all the timing and frequency stuff really aggravates obsessive feelings towards swaying (not to mention that OPK are not working for everyone) we've been trying the idea of just BD unprotected every 4 days. this ensures one attempt in the fertile window without having to think about it. Worst case scenario is O-3 and O day attempt but that's really low odds of conception from O-3 so really counts more as one attempt.

Additionally there is sperm count to consider and since sperm count doesn't seem to be geting it done while one attempt DOES, we want to be in with best odds of conception with one attempt, thus regular release every 2-4 days, so BD every 4 days is just one way to be sure we are in with good numbers of sperm for best odds of conception with one attempt.

Hope that all makes sense.

[CattyPad]

Thank you again.


So all three techniques sway pink as it is, even though there isn't a "strict timing" to call it somehow?
Just double checking as I am getting scared now, now is TTC time!!


I am only doing a light sway (more or less: cranberry, magnesium, heat up his buddies before dtd, no big O, new moon hopefully, ions, and diet wise cut down red meat and potatoes, oh and sudafed and sylk on dtd). Is that not too great/enough to do with the dtd options you suggested?


Thank you all for your replies :)

[CattyPad]

Hello,
Any opinions on my last post, would love some feedback and also my question if the options actually sway pink? Thanks again

[CattyPad]

Double post x

[atomic sagebrush]

Yes, all three sway pink.

YOu should not take Sudafed, you can give it to DH but it is not safe for you esp. on cranberry.

[CattyPad]

Oh I didn't know, ok I won't take it, thanks :))))

I have also heard about the olive leaf and I am planning to give it to DH is that ok?
And, is my sway alright or too light? I have tummy issues and prefer to keep my diet as it is...
Sorry to ask so many questions! And thank you so much x

[Christi]

I am only doing a light sway (more or less: cranberry, magnesium, heat up his buddies before dtd, no big O, new moon hopefully, ions, and diet wise cut down red meat and potatoes, oh and sudafed and sylk on dtd). Is that not too great/enough to do with the dtd options you suggested?



This is your definition of a "light sway"? I would say that is a pretty hard core sway! Short of a turkey baster and blending the swimmers with some sort of acidic mixture (I'm not recommending this, BtW), I'm not sure what else you might add to make it a more aggressive sway...

Good luck with your sway!!

[CattyPad]

Ha ha you made me laugh ;) thanks, that makes me feel better, I am not dieting or timing so I am doubting myself.
I read other people's sways in another swaying website and mine isn't much compared to theirs...!

[atomic sagebrush]

Oh I didn't know, ok I won't take it, thanks :))))

I have also heard about the olive leaf and I am planning to give it to DH is that ok?
And, is my sway alright or too light? I have tummy issues and prefer to keep my diet as it is...
Sorry to ask so many questions! And thank you so much x

Is he on cranberry? OLE is instead of cranberry, not along with it.

I think diet is the best sway tactic of all and I will always recommend that. I am not sure why you think you can't do some diet strategies with a bum stomach - just eat stuff you tolerate ok. IT is of course up to you, I just want you to have a full understanding before making a decision. the LE Diet is NOT like the old-school sway diets where you ahve to do everything or else it doesn't count. You can pick and choose only the aspects that work for you, it's still diet.

[atomic sagebrush]

Ha ha you made me laugh ;) thanks, that makes me feel better, I am not dieting or timing so I am doubting myself.
I read other people's sways in another swaying website and mine isn't much compared to theirs...!

That is because, to put it bluntly, that other site is insane which is why we started this one! :)

[atomic sagebrush]

if you haven't read it already, the case against timing is here http://genderdreaming.com/forum/gender-swaying-general-discussion/7691-trouble-timing.html

[CattyPad]

Thanks atomic!

Yes I had read about timing and that's why I decided to go against it, and will do one of the options you proposed in this thread :)

I am struggling to get the ole where I live, I might give him cranberry, unless you tell me to do OLE and I can order some online (takes a while to get here tho grrr ) but from what I read here there isn't a lot of info on that supp yet is there...

As for the diet, I didn't realise this is different from the one on the other site :suprise: I just assumed, doh. I can't seem to find it, is it just for paying members?

Thanks again :))))))))))

[atomic sagebrush]

short version is free, long version is Dream Members http://genderdreaming.com/forum/trying-conceive-girl/16780-low-everything-diet-nutshell-version.html

In my signature below, do you see the link? That goes to our index which has all topics in alphabetical order and if you're looking for something, that's where to go. :)

[CattyPad]

Thank you very much again, you are so kind!
Can I be annoying and do a final recap...

1- I managed to find OLE in pills, 400ish grams. Shall I give DH that or cranberry?

2-sorry if I am being stupid but can I recap on the dtd you proposed, and explain to you how I understood it to see if I am right:

A)Best sway, lowest odds of conception, highest stress: Have DH release 7-10 days straight and then go for one attempt at pos OPK

Ok I get this one ;)


B)Compromise (still good sway, better odds conception, lowest stress): DTD every 4 days thru fertile window

So I start doing opks a few days after AF and when I get a positive one we dtd then again exactly 4 days after?
Or dtd every 4 days once AF finishes?
The fertile window is from post opk for 5ish days right...?



C)"worst" sway but still pretty good, highest odds conception, medium stress: DTD every 4 days thru fertile window plus one attempt at pos OPK

I can't see the difference between this and option B, as the first dtd would be on pos opk and the fertile window only lasts 5 days? Sorry if I am being stupid :(

Thanks again, after this I think I am ready to go...!!!!

[bluebonnet22]

Option b involves not using OPK at all. dh and I are doing this. We are BD on CD5, 9, 13, and 17. I usually ovulate around CD14, but with this method I'm not doing OPK so I'm not stressing about timing.

Option C involves every 4 days plus another attempt at positive OPK. So if dh and I BD on CD9 and then got a positive on CD11 we would BD again even if it had not been 4 days. This isn't as good of a pink sway but does Increase odds of conception.

[CattyPad]

Aaaaaah ok that makes sense now, thanks bluebonnet!
So cd5 is 5 days after your first day of AF? Or 5 days after AF goes away?

[bluebonnet22]

Cd5 was day after AF for me. You can start whenever you want after AF, anytime between CD4 and CD10 is probably fine for most people.

[bluebonnet22]

Sorry didn't answer your question, CD1 was first day of flow so CD5 was just after AF ended.

[CattyPad]

Thank you very much!! All clear now!!

Finally...(sorry to be a pain), should I give DH cranberry supps or OLE (pill form, 400grams). Thanks!!

[bluebonnet22]

I think most of us have dropped cranberry and are doing OLE. Personally my DH is on OLE.

[CattyPad]

Thank you!

Well I promised no more questions but I have some extra info today...
I measured DH's sperm ph today and it was about 8 - is that very bad?? Do I need to try and lower it?

I measured mine on my last day of CM (unaware it was about to go) and it was 4, which I was pleased about until I read atomics essay about ph lol!
Thanks again!

[Christi]

Honestly, I would skip measuring pH. You'll make yourself crazy trying to control it and end up increasing your testosterone levels which sways blue. Atomic has some articles about how pH doesn't really sway that much anyway, so rather than stressing about the levels, just implement the things you can control (diet, exercise, supplements, one attempt, etc...) and trust that you are doing the best sway possible. Honestly, let's say you are doing everything you can to safely sway and your husbands sperm is still not the "right" pH? What will you do? What can you do? Nothing, except make yourself crazy with worry that your sway is ruined, or it's all hopeless. There is nothing to be gained.

Swaying reminds me of this prayer: God grant me the serenity
to accept the things I cannot change;
courage to change the things I can;
and wisdom to know the difference.

I should also point out that if you mess with pH too much, what you do is really reduce your chances of getting pregnant at all. Sperm can't survive if the pH is too low, so you don't want to kill all his swimmers. You want to lower sperm count, not eliminate it entirely!

Good luck!

[atomic sagebrush]

Sorry I think this kept getting bumped away from me LOL.

1)I think older couples should always use OLE

2)Ok let me recap the DTD patterns again here

Best sway, lowest odds conception - one attempt at positive OPK. You can do this WITH daily release (lowest odds of conception of all, ~maybe~ slightly better sway) OR have DH release every 2-4 days and then still do one attempt at pos OPK.

Compromise - DTD every 4 days. YOu will have actual unprotected sex every 4 days. NO additional attempt at positive OPK. Let the attempt fall where it will. YOu aren't trying to time it to coincide with positive OPK, in fact most people don't even DO OPK when they do this method. they start after AF ends and just keep DTD every 4 days.

OR you can do BOTH DTD every 4 days (without trying to time it to coincide with any particular dates, just DTD starting after AF) and then an additional attempt at pos OPK. This ends up being TWO attempts in fertile window. The others are one attempt in fertile window. The functional FW is really more like 4 days, not 5. Very few people get pg from attempts O-4 and even O-3 is slim chances.

THe fertile window does NOT open at positive OPK and continue on for 5 days. It is a 3-5 day period ending the day of ovulation (no pregnancies have ever been proven to have occured the day after ovulation - your odds of conception are ZERO) For most people it ends up being O-3, O-2, O-1 (and this is the day you tend to get pos OPK), and O day.

[atomic sagebrush]

Aaaaaah ok that makes sense now, thanks bluebonnet!
So cd5 is 5 days after your first day of AF? Or 5 days after AF goes away?

CD 1 = first day of AF (actual bleeding, not spotting)
CD5 is the 5th day after the start of AF (so some people may still be on AF and would NOT start DTD yet, others will have already gotten off AF and will have already started)

[atomic sagebrush]

Thank you!

Well I promised no more questions but I have some extra info today...
I measured DH's sperm ph today and it was about 8 - is that very bad?? Do I need to try and lower it?

I measured mine on my last day of CM (unaware it was about to go) and it was 4, which I was pleased about until I read atomics essay about ph lol!
Thanks again!

8 is totally normal and fine. I wouldn't worry about it.
YOur pH of 4 is probably not accurate and again I wouldn't worry about it, I got a boy with pH of 4.5 LOL

[CattyPad]

Thanks again, you really are so kind to help me so much, and it's all very clear now!
Well I am officially off contraception, woop! So please wish me pink luck :fx:

My only concern is that DH has only been taking OLE for a week as it's when I managed to get hold of it...what do you think about that?!

[atomic sagebrush]

oh yes if you were testing while on contraception then your pH will be super low but it doesn't mean anything. It's always very low when you're not fertile.

I think a week is better than nothing. :)

[CattyPad]

I didn't take the pill after giving birth as according to my gynaecologist this can increase the chances of twins.

I will track ph this month out of curiosity anyway, all this reading and learning got me curious!

By the time I ovulate he will have taken OLE for about 3 weeks. Plus it took us one year to conceive our DS so I doubt we will conceive on our first attempt! :D

[maidentomother]

Personally, I would wait until you have been on the LE diet strictly for AT LEAST a month, preferably 2-3 months, before TTC. Stop taking the magnesium and cranberry, just take folic acid daly and Sudafed (or Zyrtec is better if it is enough to dry out you EWCM) if on the day you BD you have lots of EWCM still. And if you want to improve your sway even more, add 1+ hpur of cardio exercise 6+days a week.

I also think just one attempt at positive OPK -OR- sex every 4 days are best, but 2 attempts (an extra one at positve OPK in addition to every 4 days) is not such a good idea and can sway boy.

[atomic sagebrush]

sometimes age can trump being on diet X number of months because it may very well be that a person doesn't get pg the first month of trying and they end up with that long on diet anyway. I don't want to end up with the situation where a 37 year old person feels like they need to diet for 3 months before TTC and then ends up taking another 3-6 months to get pregnant - and possiby by that point has lost too much weight and stopped ovulation. We have to err on the side of conception for those over 35 and esp. 37 and up

[maidentomother]

Atomic - I can absolutely see not wanting to wait 3 months at 37 - bc yes, you have less time the older you get, and thank you for bringing up the age factor- but you don't think even just a month (or maybe 6 weeks) is worth it?

LoveSunshine - I guess one thing to ask yourself is would you rather have another baby (or two), even if it's a boy, or do you want the best shot at a girl even if perhaps you get no child at all? I.e. is nothing better than another boy? Though I think at 37 it's not quite so dire - at 40 I wouldn't wait at all, but I would, a little, at 37. Obviously, I am not you and only you can decide that. Just something to think about. :)

[blueeyedguys]

Didn't Atomic say women shouldn't be taking Sudafed at all & should stick with Zyrtec or Claritin? I thought I'd seen that around here somewhere.

[maidentomother]

Sudafed can be dangerous if you have any heart issues, that's why Zyrtec is a safer bet.

[CattyPad]

Atomic - I can absolutely see not wanting to wait 3 months at 37 - bc yes, you have less time the older you get, and thank you for bringing up the age factor- but you don't think even just a month (or maybe 6 weeks) is worth it?

LoveSunshine - I guess one thing to ask yourself is would you rather have another baby (or two), even if it's a boy, or do you want the best shot at a girl even if perhaps you get no child at all? I.e. is nothing better than another boy? Though I think at 37 it's not quite so dire - at 40 I wouldn't wait at all, but I would, a little, at 37. Obviously, I am not you and only you can decide that. Just something to think about. :)


I definitely want another baby, we only have one child and we know we want two for sure. We are definitely ready to go now! Nervous but excited! :)

[CattyPad]

Didn't Atomic say women shouldn't be taking Sudafed at all & should stick with Zyrtec or Claritin? I thought I'd seen that around here somewhere.

atomic told me not to take sudafed in this thread, not sure the reason why but I will do as I am told :) maybe she can shed some light on that info if she sees this?

[atomic sagebrush]

No Sudafed for women, it's been linked to strokes. Only antihistamine.

[atomic sagebrush]

Atomic - I can absolutely see not wanting to wait 3 months at 37 - bc yes, you have less time the older you get, and thank you for bringing up the age factor- but you don't think even just a month (or maybe 6 weeks) is worth it?

LoveSunshine - I guess one thing to ask yourself is would you rather have another baby (or two), even if it's a boy, or do you want the best shot at a girl even if perhaps you get no child at all? I.e. is nothing better than another boy? Though I think at 37 it's not quite so dire - at 40 I wouldn't wait at all, but I would, a little, at 37. Obviously, I am not you and only you can decide that. Just something to think about. :)

Well, one month has a way of turning into two or three or four (something comes up, or people decide longer is better on diet) and some people at 37 are definitely reduced fertility and may only be making 4-6 good eggs a year. So postponing, while I think it's ok for the average 35 year old, 37, I don't think it's worth the risk. LIke I said, most people don't get pg that first month anyway. Of course that is everyone's call to make, but I choose to err on the side of conception vs. swaying.