Why ignore the vinegar douche?

[Livethe3quetra]

Looking at the chart that I was finally able to view the statistics show that the most consistent factor is the vinegar douche, by so much more than the LE diet. So why do so many people keep chanting 'diet is the biggest factor' when your own statistics show such a substantial sway factor. Is there a thread somewhere when all the women using vinegar douches had a MC or something?

Why is this being left out and not mentioned anymore?

[foxymrsg]

From what I've read here and my own personal belief I don't think ph sways. Also with regards to the stats there is so many other factors in play. Those figures are not based on just the vinegar douching alone, those people were possibly doing the LE diet and exercise as well which sways way more the the douching. Also it may have been that less people done the douching than the diet and another factor to get their girls but that figure is off because say 8/10 were douching got girls (as well as doing the diet etc which actually swayed) so that effectively 80% but that not accurate for just douching, but then 60/100 people got a girl on the LE diet that swayed them to get girls but as there were more people on it it seems that the figures are lower, If that makes sense?

[foxymrsg]

Argh hopefully someone can explain it better than me! Sorry I know what im trying to say

[Livethe3quetra]

Ok I think I understand. However if the reason why the diet sways is unknown. They just suggest it because 'it have been seen to work, even if we don't know why the statistics show it' then it stands to reason that perhaps it isn't the PH that makes the vinegar douche work but something else about it. What I am saying is, why is everyone so quick to dismiss the vinegar but not dimiss the diet. If both work well without us knowing then you would think they would support both.

[bluebonnet22]

Hopefully atomic will answer this at some point, but I know on the "other site" everyone was really into vinegar douching and if I recall there was some correlation to higher ectopic/miscarriage/yeast infection rates without much benefit. I know the stats look wonky but that's such a tiny sample size it's hard to get much information from a sample that tiny.

[Livethe3quetra]

That is the answer I was looking for. I knew surely there must be a reason for it. I sure would like to see the study or statistics that showed that ectopic/miscarriage/yeast infection rate in correlation to that treatment. . Especially since all three of those things are completely different issues.

[bluebonnet22]

Vaginal douching and the risk of ectopic... [Am J Obstet Gynecol. 1997] - PubMed - NCBI (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9166157) (study about douching and ectopic pregnancy), and as far as yeast infections go I think it's altering your ph can cause yeast infections, but I'm not 100% sure. It might not be related to miscarriage in particular, I might be remembering wrong. Apologies if I added further confusion to the issue but I wanted to give you an answer to mull over in the meantime while you wait for atomic's official correct answer. :)

[carmella_marie]

It can also kill all the sperm and the you won't get pregnant.

It can also make you really stressed and we are pretty sure that sways blue.

[ratcliffe1811]

If you look at the stats only 16 sways incorporated the douche, that's not a lot of data to go on in comparison to the diet.

[foxymrsg]

Thought I'd seen somewhere about douching and miscarriage or ectopic but didn't want to quote until I'd found it so glad bluebonnet has put link up. :)

[bluebonnet22]

Just for fun because I'm a science dork, I found another great journal article about why not to douche. It actually explains how douching can cause ectopic AND miscarriage.

"An added concern is that, if douching reduces the density of normal vaginal flora, bacterial vaginosis might develop or there may be a predisposition to colonization by such sexually transmitted pathogens as Neisseria gonorrhoeae or Chlamydia trachomatis, filling the “ecologic niche” (16). Pathogenic bacteria may then ascend into the upper reproductive tract, leading to inflammatory scarring (endometritis, salpingitis, or peritonitis), the principal cause of ectopic pregnancy, early miscarriage, and infertility (16)."

Vaginal Douching: Evidence for Risks or Benefits to Women (http://epirev.oxfordjournals.org/content/24/2/109.full)

So basically douching can increase risk of bacterial vaginosis which is related to ectopic, miscarriage, and yeast infections. I know on IG lots of the women had to take probiotics to ward off the yeast infections caused by all the douching.

[atomic sagebrush]

First reason: Did you see how many people did the douche? Compared to how many did the diet?? And I'd bet that everyone who did the douche DID do diet in some form or another (so that result really ought to be viewed as diet + douche). The folks that choose to do douche are almost always the strictest of the strict in every way and that skews the results badly. Small sample size and not a random sampling. We've seen it happen again and again where something looks super effective and then more people start doing it and the success rate drops like a stone.

Second reason: I can guarantee based on my experience from Ingender where people were douching tons that douching is nowhere near 80% effective. Our stats are great but they are not the end all, be all of swaying info. I base my recommendations on 7 years of observations and not this tiny number of results listed in our stats. http://genderdreaming.com/forum/gender-swaying-general-discussion/43555-thoughts-stats.html

third reason: I've seen people go on douching for YEARS getting BFN. Way lower odds of conception. It is unacceptible to me for any sway tactic for people to spent 6+ months pursuing it. People end up wasting away to nothing doing that.

4th reason: chronic vag infections

5th reason: biologically pH does not add up http://genderdreaming.com/forum/gender-swaying-general-discussion/11684-ph-pickle.html

6th reason: unknown safety factor. the level of douching that some were resorting to, to sway gender does NOT feel safe to me. I don't wait around till I've seen people having miscarriages before I stop recommending sway tactics.

7th reason: sanity. People go NUTS over the pH testing that is supposed to come along with douching. On Ingender, there were (many) people (regularly) in tears over pH fluctuations of .5 that could not possibly have made any difference whatsoever. Getting obsessed over little detail oriented projects can ruin sways and more than that, it is just not a nice way to live one's life. http://genderdreaming.com/forum/gender-swaying-general-discussion/33517-maternal-dominance-hypothesis-priviledged-daughter-hypothesis.html

8th reason: husbands don't like it

No offense taken nor meant but I don't like little remarks like "people keep chanting diet" because I work really hard to help people with good info about all the tactics out there and the safest ways to do that. I have a nice couple of threads on douching and anyone who wants to do it is more than welcome to. We aren't some cultish hive mind where people are shamed into doing sway tactics that aren't right for them (unlike some of the other sites). We run a laid back, relaxed atmosphere around here where the average people are getting pg in a few months instead of years which happens elsewhere and they aren't driving themselves crazy doing it. We include everyone in our numbers regardless of how strictly they swayed. The result of that is that it makes our stats a little lower because we aren't cherry picking the data of who to include and who to leave out. To me, it's more than worth the tradeoff to have this nice, supportive, non-competitve atmosphere where sanity and safety reign supreme.

[atomic sagebrush]

That is the answer I was looking for. I knew surely there must be a reason for it. I sure would like to see the study or statistics that showed that ectopic/miscarriage/yeast infection rate in correlation to that treatment. . Especially since all three of those things are completely different issues.

I don't need to see a study on yeast infections and douching - trust me go onto the Ingender site and you'll find HUNDREDS of posts about them. :) Not so much here.

RE ectopic/miscarriage, I don't actually think that douching in the way ~most~ PINK swayers do it is really the same type of douching that causes these issues http://genderdreaming.com/forum/gender-swaying-general-discussion/895-douching-safe.html I DO think the douches and stuff used by blue swayers 100% does cause miscarriages - but of course that's a different issue

There were some people doing douching in unsafe ways that was concerning to me. We do have a lot fewer miscarriages on here (for both pink and blue) We can't say why that is, though.

[Mrs_Incredible]

Lime douche back on ig gave me and dh nasty burns/ horrific burning infection. Lucky my dh forgave me and continued ttc after that. 3+ years later it still makes him wince!!

[bluebonnet22]

Lime douche back on ig gave me and dh nasty burns/ horrific burning infection. Lucky my dh forgave me and continued ttc after that. 3+ years later it still makes him wince!!

LOL (not funny, but made me LOL, sorry). Poor poor DH! When I first started researching swaying and found IG I had considered a lime or vinegar douche. When I mentioned it to DH he freaked out.. A LOT.. enough to make me decide against it!

[Mrs_Incredible]

I think he forgave me because i was suffering badly too!! Funny now but it wasn't at the time ;) xx