If it fails, is the disappointment WORSE than gender disappointment?

[lemonade]

It seems pretty common for the first cycle of ivf to fail. (Am I right?) So, if you spend $20K or more only to get a BFN, how devastating is it? Does it damage your relationship? Do you go through the same depression as you would if you were having a gender opposite? Does it make your GD even more rabid? How do you justify to yourself the large amount of money gone forever? Do clinics do anything to help with this?

[ever hopeful]

It's awful! I got a BFP first cycle but then sadly had a m/c at 9 weeks. It made me more determined than ever to get my DD, even though I'd initially promised DH (and really believed I meant it) that we would have one go at HT (as it went against all of his beliefs) and then walk away knowing we had tried but it was not meant to be. How wrong I was, and very luckily it worked for us second time, as it was starting to put strain on our relationship with me promising that this really was it whatever the outcome and I'd move forwards and get on with our life. I'd had very bad GD for 2.5 years since DS3 was born before we started this journey. However, if you go to a great clinic and have good pre-testing, you are probably in with over a 50% chance of being a OHW but there are certainly no guarantees. Good luck xx

[nuthinbutpink]

It's not fun but it is really a personal question meaning how I react may be totally different that how you take it. Some will be even more determined to make it work and try again and some will loathe the fact that they just spent $15,000 and have nothing to show for it and then others will not be happy about the money but will feel like they at least tried and did all they could to make their dream a reality. If you are going to be in the poor house or are spending money you do not have and can't pay back then HT is probably not the best choice. If you have savings and have a way to repay any debt incurred by going HT, in the grand scheme of life, it is a drop in the bucket and the only way to get there is to try. Without at least trying, you will never succeed- unless of course you sway and get your baby that way!

[nuthinbutpink]

If you go to a good clinic AND you have good pretesting, you have a great chance of it working the first time.

[HopingForSugarNSpice]

I promised dh we would not go into debt for ivf. We would do one cycle and be satisfied, whether it worked or not. Now I know that I won't be able to give up if my PGD tested XX doesn't stick. I am furious I didn't do it sooner, now that I rwalize how starting a year earlier could have meant more eggs and a higher chance of success. Dh said we had to just accept it as fate, that it wasn't meant to be, and I felt so angry. It wasn't fate, it was twenty years of birth control; if I just had a baby every year, I'd have plenty of both by now so don't talk to me about fate! So, no, if ivf fails, I know I will just be more crazy than ever.

[Boom]

Most clinics in the UK offer a (paid) counselling service for failed cycles. But we don't have gender selection here.
I assumed it would take us at least 2 goes, but I wanted the second to be a frozen transfer from the first cycle. We didn't have any left so I was disappointed even before my BFN because we did not plan for a second full cycle.
once I got the negative test, I mourned for an evening but felt better as soon as I resolved to go for another cycle.

[Boom]

Also, DH was against another cycle at first, but once he gave his reasons I was able to assure him on each point. It was also important to him to have a limit agreed, so we said we will keep trying IVF until August 2015 and then try naturally before my fertility becomes an issue. If still no DD, at least my broodiness will be satisfied and we can apply to adopt

[Eneli]

I think it's hard but at least for me I don't regret having tried. I'm starting my second and last own eggs cycle. I think GD disappointment is worse than BFN but it depends on you. It's very personal

[1+2+3boys]

I think it is hard to say because everyone and each situation is different. So I will tell you how I think I would feel. I do not think failed HT would feel worse than a failed sway because we absolutely only want one more child and we are going over our 'number'. I only want another baby so I can have a girl, I am not TTC my last planned for child and at my last chance to get a girl, I already used up all my chances and I wish I could be done because as much as I love my children, I am tired and feel like I can only just handle what I have and even that is a struggle sometimes. If I swayed and got a boy I would love him dearly but that would be it, I'd have to get over never having a daughter and I think the hard times would be just that little bit harder knowing I took on alot more work and still didn't get my dream come true.

I think I if you get an opposite and then decide to go on to HT, it is going to be even harder to pay for with that extra child to care for that you never really planned for. Now that DS1 is starting school soon and one of DPs is starting intermediate (what I think you call middle school) I can see how expensive children really are. I think the money forked out for HT is alot less than paying one child from birth to adulthood plus Uni if you help them with it. We lost alot of money with our last business and it was a gamble and it hurt but we have finally gotten rid of the debt and now the money does not seem as much even though we could be in a better place now. We payed for a wonderful oppertunity and if we did not the chance would never been there. I think with failed HT as opposed to failed sway there would be more of a feeling of knowing you really did try all you could to get your DG. I think it all depends how desperate you are for your DG.

I'm finding this really hard to explain and it sounded WAY better before I started typing. My head does not work so well after a couple of glasses of wine!!! I should have come back to this tomorrow but I had already started typing. I hope my typos are not too bad.

I guess what I am trying to say is, money is not everything and I think I have the right to say that since we are not rich or even at that comfortable point with money where we can buy everything we need without having to cut back on other things and we will have to work hard to save for HT for quite some time. If it fails, it will sting badly but I may be in the position to get enough money to try again. If we sway and still don't get a girl that's it because I know how many children I can handle and I certainly do not want 5.

I hope this helps a tiny bit. Good luck with what you decide.

[LacePrincess]

Well.....we aren't *quite* done with the first cycle yet I guess, so we'll see.

I think for me that, having struggled with conceiving at all in the past, and having turned 35 (YIKES!!) that my biological clock is ticking louder than GD. I worry more about not being able to have any baby at this point than really worrying about having a girl.

One thing I really didn't expect going into HT was how much TIME you waste just waiting for stuff! It's unbelievable. I mean, we started the whole thing around last July. It took July-Aug for pretesting. Then I was on the pill preparing for the ivf, the ivf itself, the no transfer, then trying to get ready for the FET. Which got cancelled for the cyst. So that meant for an entire HALF A YEAR I had absolutely zero chance of falling pregnant. Six months of NO chance at all, when with trying naturally I could've had at least 6-7 chances of catching an egg!!

It's not even the money - it's too much time that I simply don't feel like I have. Money is one thing, time you cannot buy back.

The other thing is, at this point there is such an enormous age gap with my youngest being 5 years old, that when we have another baby I will have to buy new EVERYTHING anyways, including new baby furniture, so really it feels like a brand new thing. So I think that helps the idea of having another boy if it comes to that, as the baby wouldn't be using up hand me downs so there's still the fun of shopping for new stuff. Plus I haven't had a newborn around in so long it'll all feel like a brand new thing anyways.

Really, I just want another baby before it's too late, LOL.

[lemonade]

Thank you everyone for your perspectives.

LacePrincess, I thought about that too... the huge investment in time and energy would make it all the more devastating. It can add up to years out of your life if it doesn't work first time.

I already know what an emotional rollercoaster it is to have miscarriages, waiting to try again, finally getting a BFP only to spend weeks terrified it wouldn't "stick" (And it didn't, 3 times in a row). It was torture. And worst of all I couldn't think of anything else during that time. I was miserable, worse than I'd ever been in my life. I'm worried it would be even WORSE after having invested $$$$$ into it too.

If only first time success rates were higher to justify the cost as well as the huge time investment, both physically and emotionally.

[1+2+3boys]

It certainly would be an expensive MC and that worries me too and I have only had one. MC rates are much lower with IVF though aren't they because they use the best embryo of the bunch. Something you can not do when TTC natrually.

[LacePrincess]

It certainly would be an expensive MC and that worries me too and I have only had one. MC rates are much lower with IVF though aren't they because they use the best embryo of the bunch. Something you can not do when TTC natrually.

Well it's *supposed* to be much better with PGD. IVF without PGD is still a crapshoot whether you get an actual viable embryo.

They say that with PGD, if you get the transfer it should stick, at least 70% of the time. But that still leaves 3/10 that don't stick, and I'm not sure I believe even that.....so far just around this forum there have been 4-6 chemicals that I've noticed, and that's only since Oct. So even with a fully tested embryo sometimes they just don't stick and no one knows why.

So yeah, all that money is a big factor for us when considering doing any more HT cycles since the expense definitely doesn't buy any guarantee of it working.

Personally I don't believe that IVF is better at picking 'the best' egg than your own body. IVF certainly attempts to recruit a whole bunch, but I do believe that naturally your body would end up choosing to ovulate the best of the follies too. So say in any month even in a natural cycle there's usually a few follies that start to develop, I do believe that your body would 'choose' the best most viable one in a natural cycle, so I really don't think IVF is better than nature in that respect.

[lemonade]

OK, now I'm thinking I'm not so sure I can see myself sanely going through with HT. Ever. What LacePrincess says confirms what I have been reading for about a year... that after all that time and expense, there's a chance I'd end up with nothing but a chemical. And that's IF I'm even lucky enough to have a good enough embryo of the "right" sex to transfer in the first place. (I spoke to a woman at a clinic once for more info, and she said that a cycle with no transfer is pretty much as expensive as a full cycle, which shocked me.)

I've had chemicals before. I got a BFP on a Friday and was over the moon. On Sunday, just for fun I tested again, and to my horror it was BFN. I took 4+ tests and they all said the same thing. I bled the next day. The letdown was unbelievable. I can't even comprehend the devastation after 6 months and $20K.

[LacePrincess]

lemonade - my cycle was a no transfer, and yes it costs the full amount. Mostly because the vast majority of the cost to the clinic is for the ER surgery itself. The only thing I 'saved' was I didn't use up some of the drugs (estradiol, Crinone) but of course I'd already bought all of them.

From the stories I've read here, it does seem like a chemical after IVF is incredibly devastating. After all that work and expense, and for most of us travel too, it seems like we should get *something* for all that work, right? It just seems so unfair to be left with absolutely nothing.

That's not to discourage anyone from going HT at all, but it's most definitely not a 'sure thing' at all. The way I looked at it was, I didn't want any regrets down the line. I wanted to know I'd tried everything and not regret not at least giving it a try, within sane and reasonable limits. I really do hate having the feeling of no control over my body, and frankly I wouldn't really be devastated at all if we ended up having to go back to trying naturally.

[Sarah4girl]

Lemonade- I was in your position about 6 months ago. I started a thread 'is HT worth it' and got mixed opinions. In the end we decided to give our best at trying for a girl by swaying. In the end we simply couldn't afford it right now. Esp for something that isn't guaranteed. If it was i would have been all in. Plus hubby wasn't 100% into the idea. I'm now pregnant, yet to know the gender. When I first found out i was pregnant I wished I had done HT as I was convinced it must be a boy- I tried my best with swaying, but wasn't perfect. Now I'm ok whatever the outcome and think I did ok with my sway. (Now I'm back to my very boy lifestyle :) Good luck to you and whatever you decide!

[1+2+3boys]

For the first time in ages I have actually started thinking I should just sway. This saying comes to mind lately
"The more I learn the more I realise, the less I know" Gosh this journey is all so hard. I might need some time out again

[Boom]

I don't think I can sway. That also takes time and a lot of effort. I have money, I don't have willpower. And if it's to be your last baby no mater what, for me the GD would be so much worse.

Lemonade, is there an explanation for your MCs? I wouldn't risk spending any time or money on IVF until that is investigated.
Good luck whichever path you choose.

[MyByC]

If you go to a good clinic AND you have good pretesting, you have a great chance of it working the first time.

Sorry to interrup, but what a good clinis mean in Europe?
What are the costs for the best clinic in Europe?

[LacePrincess]

MyByC, I'm afraid I don't know much about European clinics, hopefully one of the European gals can chime in on that.

I think that it would help if going into HT everyone made sure they were *realistic* about their chances. I don't mean to be a Debbie Downer either, but I do think a lot of the devastating emotional reactions (and I know, I had them!) comes from assuming that proven fertility = sure thing for IVF. It doesn't. It means a better chance than for someone who's truly infertile, but it still doesn't guarantee you'll be a OHW by any means.

As long as people face reality of what IVF can and can't do, you'll be ok. You really need to confront how you'll feel if you do spend $20k+ and have nothing come of it.

[lemonade]

Boom, there was no reason for my recurrent MC's. I was 26, fit and healthy, perfect 28 day cycles, positive ovulation tests same day each month. I had multiple tests done by an RE and it was determined to just be "bad luck", which was very unhelpful to my sanity at the time.

It can happen to anyone, no matter their history. It recently happened to my good friend in her 20s, who already has a healthy baby. Three unexplained in a row.

It was bad enough to get BFNs after perfectly timed cycles at home after my MCs, but to get one after $20K+ as wells as 6 months of invasive testing, procedures, and emotional investment and obsession, I'm pretty sure it would destroy me. Then I'm pretty sure I'd want to try again, so it wasn't a total sunk cost, and then we'd be $40K+ down. And who really knows for sure if that time would work either? There seems to be too much working against it all to justify it for me, the way the technology stands now.

In all honesty, I wasn't very reassured after recently interviewing a highly renowned clinic by phone, and they're the ones who were supposed to be selling it to me. Plus the cost has risen inexplicably by several thousand even since the last time I spoke to them. How high would it be by the time we would have been ready to even start this whole thing? The whole thing seems wildly unpredictable and a huge gamble.

I'm sad because I thought it was the answer.

[atomic sagebrush]

It certainly would be an expensive MC and that worries me too and I have only had one. MC rates are much lower with IVF though aren't they because they use the best embryo of the bunch. Something you can not do when TTC natrually.

Miscarriage rates are NOT LOWER with IVF. Some people say that, but I personally do not buy that for 5 minutes.

They know about .001 of how all this works. There is just so much they don't know how do do and tweak, and honestly, so many things have to go exactly perfect for any pregnancy to work (natural or ART) that it's not surprising that it doesn't work out when it doesn't, the miracle is that it works as often as it does!!!

[atomic sagebrush]

I just wanted to say I admire you guys for discussing this and being so forthright with each other, because sometimes I feel that this aspect is glossed over - every person with a successful HT go round will of course chime in and say oh yes, it's all worth it, then the people who had it "fail" tend to go away and never mention how bad it really was for them. But I have talked to several people who have been, I don't want to say "destroyed" by it but def. crushed and now they have no money and no baby, YK?

There is always the option, and sometimes we forget to mention it on here, but always the option of making the decision to be happy with one's family as it is, and I know tons of people who did just that and they all seem to be having a better time than me LOL. THere is something to consider, even when the dream comes true, that if you're stretched so thin timewise and financially that you may not even be able to enjoy having your DG if you get them, if that makes sense. I wouldn't change anything having my DD, but it is more than I bargained for when I first dreamed the dream of a girl, and our finances are HORRIBLE :hair: I didn't even go HT, just the whole pregnancy costs and so on. It ends up reducing the amount you're able to enjoy your dream coming true.

[LacePrincess]

Miscarriage rates are NOT LOWER with IVF. Some people say that, but I personally do not buy that for 5 minutes.

They know about .001 of how all this works. There is just so much they don't know how do do and tweak, and honestly, so many things have to go exactly perfect for any pregnancy to work (natural or ART) that it's not surprising that it doesn't work out when it doesn't, the miracle is that it works as often as it does!!!

Thank you!! This really needs to be pointed out!

IVF is usually the 'last ditch' resort for infertile ladies, and when it comes between never having a child and spending a fortune at least trying, the choice is obvious. But for most of us here that's not our situation. We have to remember that, for proven fertile women, our chances naturally are likely as good or even better than using IVF for the purpose of getting pregnant. The GS part is a whole 'nother issue. All our money is buying is a chance at choosing our desired gender, it does not buy us any guarantee of IVF sticking.

They know a lot and yet so little. And they can't make even the best embryo implant. I liken it to throwing one of those velcro balls at a felt wall. You can pick the best and stickiest velcro ball you can find, but at the end of the day you're just lobbing it at the felt wall and hoping it'll stick.

[atomic sagebrush]

great analogy, I'm totally stealing that! :)

[1+2+3boys]

Sorry to hear about your MCs Lemonade. We are the same age, I can't imagine the pain. I hope you get some answers.

Atomic- I can relate to your post about being so busy and having less money with more kids. I am pretty stretched time wise already and we don't have the most money in the world. It would be smart to stop now but I want my girl. That is why we will only try for one more. If HT were in my Country it would be a no brainer. Sometimes I wonder if I should just try to move on and be happy with my life the way it is which is sort of what I try to do while I am in limbo waiting to make a decission. I can't imagine the pain of doing it all again and not getting my girl as much as we would love him. I think I will just have to stick to a cheaper clinic like Cz.

My big C. I think there are only two COuntries in Europe that do PGD. Czech Republic and Cyprus

[lemonade]

Sorry to hear about your MCs Lemonade. We are the same age, I can't imagine the pain. I hope you get some answers.


Thanks 1+2+3boys... the MCs actually happened BEFORE I had DS1. Then I had my healthy DS2 right after him. There were no answers from any doctor, all my tests came back normal. It was just bad luck, and now that I have had 2 healthy kids in a row, I believe it.

The same explanation would be given if HT failed. Just bad luck, even if everything lined up perfectly. Except this time, the bad luck has $20,000+ and 6 months of stress and emotions behind it. I love LacePrincess's velcro ball metaphor. And with so many people saying "it's wise to plan for more than one cycle, as often the first try doesn't work" it goes from a fairly expensive gamble to a VERY expensive gamble pretty quickly. As in, it doubles. It would be different if there was any form of a refund, or even discount, but it seems like that's out of the question with this kind of PGD.

The more I think about it, the more it seems to me that odds are actually higher I'd have a girl next naturally, especially with a sway, than doing HT and having a healthy XX embryo to transfer, actually stick, and last an entire pregnancy through HT on the first try. Am I way off in thinking this?

[bluebonnet22]

lemonade - I don't know about the odds of the pregnancy sticking for HT vs natural, but keep in mind the odds for natural swaying are still roughly 60%. So I guess the question is would you like a 60% chance of having a DD or 40% chance of having a DS "for free" vs with IVF you end up with no baby if it's not successful. Taking the money out of the equation - which is worse to you, an opposite or no baby ? Either way you know you've tried your best it just depends which is more upsetting to you.

[LacePrincess]

lemonade, you're definitely so right about the rabbit hole that you can fall into when starting HT. That's why I believe that a hard limit is a MUST when it comes to financial limits. It's like gambling - the more you lose, the less you can bear to give up. That "just one more, the next one will be the jackpot" kind of thinking.

It really comes down to if it's a dealbreaker for you not to have an opposite I think. For us, we want another child (or two) and our DG would be wonderful but more boys would still be welcome. Not everyone feels that way.

[Dreamofpink]

I know I wouldn't give up if we had the money for HT, so I'm glad it's out of the question for us. I want a couple more anyway so I just have to hope!

Sent from my LG-E400 using Tapatalk 2

[maidentomother]

Lemonade, I am pretty sure the odds of getting a girl with a strong proper sway (strict vegetarian LE diet, no breakfast or snacking, 60+ min cardio daily, one BD attempt in fertile period) are much higher than the overall 60-65% statistic, more like 80-90%. But a lot depends on your willpower/determination...without being utterly obsessive.

[atomic sagebrush]

Thanks 1+2+3boys... the MCs actually happened BEFORE I had DS1. Then I had my healthy DS2 right after him. There were no answers from any doctor, all my tests came back normal. It was just bad luck, and now that I have had 2 healthy kids in a row, I believe it.

The same explanation would be given if HT failed. Just bad luck, even if everything lined up perfectly. Except this time, the bad luck has $20,000+ and 6 months of stress and emotions behind it. I love LacePrincess's velcro ball metaphor. And with so many people saying "it's wise to plan for more than one cycle, as often the first try doesn't work" it goes from a fairly expensive gamble to a VERY expensive gamble pretty quickly. As in, it doubles. It would be different if there was any form of a refund, or even discount, but it seems like that's out of the question with this kind of PGD.

The more I think about it, the more it seems to me that odds are actually higher I'd have a girl next naturally, especially with a sway, than doing HT and having a healthy XX embryo to transfer, actually stick, and last an entire pregnancy through HT on the first try. Am I way off in thinking this?

I have actually seen this happen quite a bit, it's almost as if for some people, your body has to learn how to be pregnant and they have some miscarriages before they ever get pregnant, and something about the miscarriages alter their hormones in such a way as to make future pg more successful. This is partly why some people say MC up fertility, they probably don't up odds of conception, but it may help the chances that a pg works out.

I do think that many people have a better chance coming out of swaying with their DG than with HT. I can't speak to any one person's chances. The thing is though, that you have to accept the (very real) possibility that it won't go your way and then you'll have a pregnancy, birth, recovery, and child to raise for the next 18 years, YK? Only HT can remove that possiblity.

[atomic sagebrush]

Lemonade, I am pretty sure the odds of getting a girl with a strong proper sway (strict vegetarian LE diet, no breakfast or snacking, 60+ min cardio daily, one BD attempt in fertile period) are much higher than the overall 60-65% statistic, more like 80-90%. But a lot depends on your willpower/determination...without being utterly obsessive.

:agree:

Clomid, exercise, longer on diet, one attempt all get much better odds of success than the overall stats of the site. We include everyone in our numbers even when people don't do things "my way". :)

[1+2+3boys]

hmmm, the grass is starting to look greener...

[1+2+3boys]

I think I have drafted a plan that works for me. I am younger so should try HT first. If we can afford it in the next 4-5 years then I will do that and if it does not work or I can not do it then I will sway. Best of both worlds but in the order that works for me. I think what ever the plan I am not ready for another child right now so I need to try and put my GD aside and just focus on raising my boys to be the best men they can possibly be, and have alot of fun doing it.
My DP adores his Mum so hopefully one day that will be me x3

[LacePrincess]

Be happy you have time on your side! Gosh it feels like just yesterday I was only 30 and felt like I had all the time in the world. And good grief where did the last 5 years go?!? :P

[1+2+3boys]

Yeah, I can't believe I will have a school aged child in a couple of months. That means I had a baby 5 years ago. I've been a Mum for half a decade. I know I am SO lucky to have time on my side in regards to hoping to do HT

[LacePrincess]

Yeah, I can't believe I will have a school aged child in a couple of months. That means I had a baby 5 years ago. I've been a Mum for half a decade. I know I am SO lucky to have time on my side in regards to hoping to do HT

Hahaha that's nothing! My BABY is going to be grade one next fall. My baby!! :tissue: And my eldest is going to be hitting puberty soon. Oh dear Lord where did the time go?!?

[1+2+3boys]

Wow. I can't even imagine that!

[LacePrincess]

Wow. I can't even imagine that!

Yah, makes me feel old. I mean I really don't feel old AT ALL, in fact I'm fitter, healthier, and feel younger than I ever did in my twenties, but something about having a kid hit his preteens that just heralds a whole new life stage.

On the upside, at DS2's dance school last month, one of his classmates asked me if I was my son's sister! :bigsmile: I might have preened just a bit......It felt pretty good!

[atomic sagebrush]

I think I have drafted a plan that works for me. I am younger so should try HT first. If we can afford it in the next 4-5 years then I will do that and if it does not work or I can not do it then I will sway. Best of both worlds but in the order that works for me. I think what ever the plan I am not ready for another child right now so I need to try and put my GD aside and just focus on raising my boys to be the best men they can possibly be, and have alot of fun doing it.
My DP adores his Mum so hopefully one day that will be me x3

ALWAYS try HT first because swaying will always be here. BUT that having been said, 4-5 years is a mighty long time to wait for HT and if there is any earlthy way to swing it sooner than that, I strongly urge that you do. Time is not your friend when it comes to odds of HT success.

[1+2+3boys]

Thanks Atomic. I sure wish we could do it ASAP but it is the money. I'm only 27 this year and I'd love to do it before 30. I do know the younger the better.
Life is pretty busy right now and we have a few other milestones to reach but once we reach those (hopefully by the end of this year) I will sit down and have a very serious heart to heart with DP about how we need to come up with a plan and act fast. I am lucky that he has agreed but he doesn't know all the facts yet and that the sooner the better. Bless him, he says "We'll get you your girl one day"
But one day needs to be a certain time not in the too distant future.

Lace Princess- I can see myself being fitter in my 30s or even 40s than in my 20s. I was very sporty but stopped after school then became a Mum in my early 20s and since then have not really been using my body to it's fullest potential. I have had other things to worry about! When the boys are bigger I want to be able to play with them and be a threat when versing me in a game! I think it will feel great being fit again.

[LacePrincess]

I didn't realize you were only 27! You have tonnes of time!

[atomic sagebrush]

Unfortunately it matters not how fit you are, how well you are taking care of yourself, etc. It's programmed into us that our fertility declines over time, mostly genetic, partly things that are out of our control (that happened when we were in our mother's and even grandmother's womb, since the egg that is us, was formed in our mother when she was in our grandmother's womb.)

AT 27 you do probably have plenty of time, I just don't like to see anyone wait around when time is of the essence. :)

[LacePrincess]

Unfortunately it matters not how fit you are, how well you are taking care of yourself, etc. It's programmed into us that our fertility declines over time, mostly genetic, partly things that are out of our control (that happened when we were in our mother's and even grandmother's womb, since the egg that is us, was formed in our mother when she was in our grandmother's womb.)

AT 27 you do probably have plenty of time, I just don't like to see anyone wait around when time is of the essence. :)

Yah I realize all of that. It's a pity!

I just cling onto the knowledge that my mom had her kids relatively late for her generation (age 32 and 36) and went into perimenopause at around 48 which is avg. My paternal grandmother had 7 children so she was plenty fertile, and I seem to take after my dad's side of the family. So hopefully that is all positive indications!

[1+2+3boys]

It is amazing isn't it thinking that half of you was in your Grandmother for a short time. I think being adopted makes it feel even more amazing. I don't see my bio grandmother much but she is an identical twin and now I have identical twins. I wish I could carry on down that female line. I think that is a part of my gender desire. I love having my boys who are my first blood relatives around me and to have my daughter, knowing that I was carrying the eggs that would be her children (my grandchildren) would be so amazing.

[rubyroo83]

ALWAYS try HT first because swaying will always be here. BUT that having been said, 4-5 years is a mighty long time to wait for HT and if there is any earlthy way to swing it sooner than that, I strongly urge that you do. Time is not your friend when it comes to odds of HT success.
I agree 100%. We will go HT for our baby girl, if after 2 full cycles it fails we will then sway for a girl. It's going to be expensive for us, travelling from Australia. I wish it was legal here :(
If I end up with 2 boys I will be a bit sad but would rather 2 boys than only 1!

[luckyfourleafclover]

It seems pretty common for the first cycle of ivf to fail. (Am I right?) So, if you spend $20K or more only to get a BFN, how devastating is it? Does it damage your relationship? Do you go through the same depression as you would if you were having a gender opposite? Does it make your GD even more rabid? How do you justify to yourself the large amount of money gone forever? Do clinics do anything to help with this?

I think you are very wise to ask these questions now…I entered into HT thinking I would def be a OHW and I am still on this awful roller coaster now.

[1+2+3boys]

I'm now leaning towards swaying again. I had planned on CR to cycle but did not realise you had to be 35 plus or have fertility issues. Now USA is our only option (DP will not consider the other places) and with the money it would take to save I would be waiting way way longer than I liked.

I am starting to wonder if I do have more chance of getting a daughter via swaying. I have never tried it and my life was one huge boy sway before without me realising it and now I am pretty neutral without consiously trying to change plus I now have a couple of natural things that would help sway pink for me. I see that the girl sway stats are getting better. Maybe even better in a year or so and I can get even better sway advise than what is available right now. Such a hard choice to make. If we had the money it would be HT. I feel mad at my parents like they took my potential daughter away from me because it is hugely their fault that we lost 100s of dollars in our business and now live month to month with hardly any extras. We could have afforded it alot easier otherwise. I wish I could stop being angry about that because it is not going to change now.

I think of myself as TTC number three as far as stats are concerned since with identical twins only one child was concieved who turning into two. I think the stats for famlies of three to have mixed genders was about 50% ? I really can not remember. Can't find the thread

[1+2+3boys]

I think you are very wise to ask these questions now…I entered into HT thinking I would def be a OHW and I am still on this awful roller coaster now.

Sorry to hear about so many cycles that have not worked. I hope this next one works FX

[atomic sagebrush]

http://genderdreaming.com/forum/gender-swaying-general-discussion/762-odds-having-boys-girls-mixed-gender-family-old-statistics-thread-lindi.html?762-statistics-question!-anybody-know=

[nuthinbutpink]

I'm now leaning towards swaying again. I had planned on CR to cycle but did not realise you had to be 35 plus or have fertility issues. Now USA is our only option (DP will not consider the other places) and with the money it would take to save I would be waiting way way longer than I liked.

I am starting to wonder if I do have more chance of getting a daughter via swaying. I have never tried it and my life was one huge boy sway before without me realising it and now I am pretty neutral without consiously trying to change plus I now have a couple of natural things that would help sway pink for me. I see that the girl sway stats are getting better. Maybe even better in a year or so and I can get even better sway advise than what is available right now. Such a hard choice to make. If we had the money it would be HT. I feel mad at my parents like they took my potential daughter away from me because it is hugely their fault that we lost 100s of dollars in our business and now live month to month with hardly any extras. We could have afforded it alot easier otherwise. I wish I could stop being angry about that because it is not going to change now.

I think of myself as TTC number three as far as stats are concerned since with identical twins only one child was concieved who turning into two. I think the stats for famlies of three to have mixed genders was about 50% ? I really can not remember. Can't find the thread

You don't have to be over 35 or have fertility issues to cycle there.

[LW14]

Wish i'd read this before i went to LA in Feb...just had a BFN after transferring a healthy hatching XX - DH thought it was a cert we would get pregnant, i wasn't sure but hoped!! Now am not sure what to do - was a huge expense and effort to go out there (although my SIL lives there so we had a proper family holiday) - am thinking could do one more cycle with HRC but only if they can advise whether they can change anything to make it more likely to stick next time (assuming we get a healthy XX again)...there are so many hurdles to clear, i am so disappointed to fall at the final one. Or do i try somewhere closer to home like CZ with a lesser reputation but lower cost and less effort required needed to get hopefully that positive. Or do i just give up and try swaying...am struggling today with whether i am disappointed about the BFN for a girl or just the BFN in general...and how long do i leave it with trying naturally - i am 36 soon so fertility is declining, plus don't want a massive gap between my others...what to do!!!

[Remustroy]

Sorry for your bfn but don't give up hope average is 3 cycles what grade was your embie did Dr p give you a % lots of people on here will tell you that there fresh transfer didn't work and the fet did and lots of people add things to second goes to increase there chances I believe this is a game of numbers and luck I'm sure some others will be able to advise further have you any on ice to go back for x

[LW14]

I was with Dr Kolb - didn't get a percentage or the grade but he seemed positive about it. Wondering if FET has a better chance as gives you a chance to clear all hormones out. None on ice as only one healthy XX (had 10 eggs retrieved, only 6 fertilised but 5 made it to day 5)...so would be starting from scratch again. :(

[Aussie Girl]

I wish I also found this site before I flew to LA in March. We've just got home with our first unsuccessful attempt at GS. Nothing prepared me for the disappointment and hurt I'm currently nursing. [emoji17]

Apparently I didn't respond to the meds and had very poor pretesting or it could have simply been a bad month. Im 34 and had no issues falling pregnant previously. I have two boys! I'm just wondering if this has happened to anyone else, it's been very emotionally and financially draining to get the result we did.

I'm wondering if I'm a freak of nature (female version of Charlie sheen with a high resistance to drugs) or if this is common for other women seeking GS from Australia or worldwide?

Bit of a misconception that GS is guaranteed thing, the end result is, if you manage to defeat the other odds you need to, to get there. I can honestly say, knowing what I know now, and the odds involved and extra hidden costs and the gamble attached, I'm not sure I would have chosen this process for us.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[nuthinbutpink]

I am very sorry this is not easy for some of you. I can relate very well as a poor responder with zero fertility issues previously. I was 34, very healthy, never had a miscarriage and pregnant first month with three previous kids. My pretesting was awful.

Dr Potter ordered my pretesting. I did not cycle with him but he was the one that have me the results and it started with "I'm sorry.".

My AFC was 7. My FSH was 10 and my AMH was .75.

I see many people on here with subpar pretesting and I wonder how upfront your doctors are being with you. Although it's true that even excellent pretesting cannot predict success but poor pretesting can tell you this won't be easy.

I'm not sure all of you have had poor pretesting but IF you fall into that category, here are some things to consider-

Is DHEA something to look into? Ask your doctor.

Am I being realistic with this and understand that with poor pretesting, multiple attempts may be necessary.

Am I being realistic with this and understand that I may be better off canceling my cycle of I do not respond well to stims initially and then try again with another protocol.

Am I treating this as a business transaction and watching what we spend on the trip or are we blowing money on "holiday" that may be needed for a second cycle?

IVF is a huge unknown for all of us. We need to keep in mind that there is nothing natural about it and our response has nothing to do with our natural fertility. A poor response to stims does not mean we are now infertile.

IVF is difficult for everyone. Beyond the physical response, it is emotionally exhausting.

Less than optimal pretesting means it will be difficult. There is no way around that no matter how "fertile" you may think you are or how young you are.

[LW14]

NBP - how would you categorise these pretesting levels? They were done in UK at last period before i went to LA and cycled

FSH – 9.0
Progesterone – 1.1
Beta oestrodiol - 106
AMH – 10.6

Are these good or bad? I was given no indication at the clinic. I did get a reasonable number of eggs (10) of which 6 fertilised and 5 went to day 5 for testing, 3 were normal but only 1 XX so I think i responded ok to the meds and the stim, it was the transfer that didn't take so wonder if my body was too hormonal esp as had my normal hormones too (some clinics down regulate natural hormones but don't think i had that)

[LW14]

Aussie girl - where did you cycle? I was in LA in March as well...might have seen you in the waiting room. I too am so disappointed - i was not prepared for how many hurdles there are to overcome and i kind of thought as i had conceived so easily with my two boys (pg first try with each) i would have an easy ride, especially as we transferred a good quality hatched embryo...obviously not :( I am not seriously questioning what to do next - my very supportive DH and parents have said i can go to the US for another cycle if i want, leave the boys at home, maybe do two short trips (one for ER and one for FET assuming we get a good quality girl) but it is still so much money and am wondering if i should just leave it to nature and spend the money on a fun family summer holiday instead!! Or go for a cheaper clinic in Europe...argh, i am so confused. So pleased to have found this forum where i can at least ask advice and be open

[nuthinbutpink]

http://genderdreaming.com/forum/ht-family-balancing-info-and-current-cycles/47385-amh-levels.html

[Aussie Girl]

LW14 I was at HRC Newport, so if you were there you probably did. We heard two other Aussie ladies chatting in the waiting room. I know how you feel, it's gut wrenching, however we didn't even get to fertilizing stage, so our hopes were squished fairly early in the final steps. I had NO IDEA and was no way in anyway prepared for the hurdles and the odds to beat just to get that healthy girl embryo. I think you get blinded by the 99.9% statistics of the sex wanted, not realizing what's involved to get to that statistic and point in the process.
I can sympathise with you in regards to what to do next. I have so many unanswered questions running through my head. Not to mention a very expensive stock of meds I don't currently need. Apparently I didn't respond to the drugs, and was informed that maybe this process was not suited to me and maybe this was my destiny, which was an additional kick in the guts, because I thought I was eliminated the "destiny" factor with this process. I really thought this was the answer to completing our little family. OR it could have simply been a bad month. Just trying to get my head around it all.. No real explanation why it didn't work, which makes it very hard to decide to go back and have similar results, especially if it was just a "bad month"... It's such a massive gamble...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[nuthinbutpink]

Anytime we have less than 10 fertilize, it's a bit of a gamble to just make it to transfer statistically. You made it to transfer which is great. The one good thing about having a previous cycle is that your doctor can use that response to hopefully get a better response out of you next time. Your response to stims is the best indicator for predicting success so now that trumps your pretesting.

[atomic sagebrush]

I wish I also found this site before I flew to LA in March. We've just got home with our first unsuccessful attempt at GS. Nothing prepared me for the disappointment and hurt I'm currently nursing. [emoji17]

Apparently I didn't respond to the meds and had very poor pretesting or it could have simply been a bad month. Im 34 and had no issues falling pregnant previously. I have two boys! I'm just wondering if this has happened to anyone else, it's been very emotionally and financially draining to get the result we did.

I'm wondering if I'm a freak of nature (female version of Charlie sheen with a high resistance to drugs) or if this is common for other women seeking GS from Australia or worldwide?

Bit of a misconception that GS is guaranteed thing, the end result is, if you manage to defeat the other odds you need to, to get there. I can honestly say, knowing what I know now, and the odds involved and extra hidden costs and the gamble attached, I'm not sure I would have chosen this process for us.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

It has a lot to do with your own individual genetics, unfortunately. All we can do is look at statistics and averages and say, well, a 34 year old should have a pretty fair shot at success - but with poor pretesting, that all goes out the window.

I agree that there are times I feel that people are overly positive about "the guarantee" because it is NOT that you will get a baby of your desired gender. It's only a guarantee IF you get eggs, if you get healthy sperm, if you get good fert. rates, if any of those are your DG, and if you get pregnant and stay that way. It is a gamble though and can mess with your mind in the way that any gamble can - the temptation to "throw good money after bad" and keep cycling beyond what you can afford is really strong.

As I"m sure you understand everyone is on their own journeys here and others may need to maintain positivity for their own reasons, so guard your heart and do your own research and listen with a discerning ear!!

[atomic sagebrush]

LW14 I was at HRC Newport, so if you were there you probably did. We heard two other Aussie ladies chatting in the waiting room. I know how you feel, it's gut wrenching, however we didn't even get to fertilizing stage, so our hopes were squished fairly early in the final steps. I had NO IDEA and was no way in anyway prepared for the hurdles and the odds to beat just to get that healthy girl embryo. I think you get blinded by the 99.9% statistics of the sex wanted, not realizing what's involved to get to that statistic and point in the process.
I can sympathise with you in regards to what to do next. I have so many unanswered questions running through my head. Not to mention a very expensive stock of meds I don't currently need. Apparently I didn't respond to the drugs, and was informed that maybe this process was not suited to me and maybe this was my destiny, which was an additional kick in the guts, because I thought I was eliminated the "destiny" factor with this process. I really thought this was the answer to completing our little family. OR it could have simply been a bad month. Just trying to get my head around it all.. No real explanation why it didn't work, which makes it very hard to decide to go back and have similar results, especially if it was just a "bad month"... It's such a massive gamble...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Just giving it to you absolutely straight here - the doctors are often overly positive and optimistic about success rates (even at times when they maybe shouldn't be) and if your doctor is saying this may not be suited to you...I'm sorry but I would take that pretty seriously.