Vaccinations

[Little Lunasa]

Hi ladies,

Just wondering what your thoughts on vaccinating your babies are? Although I got my two older children their shots I am now having second thoughts with my third child. I work in the health sector myself so I'm no stranger to how the diseases can affect people, but there is a growing amount of research now indicating that vaccinations are more harmful than people are aware. Any opinions / advice / life stories? lol

I'm in Ireland btw, there is a much lower number of vaccinations given here than in the US, and none of them are mandatory (yet!!)

[LilithWiser1979]

This is a HIGHLY personal choice. What effected my decision regarding vaccines were:

1. Lack of accountability by drug companies. They literally cannot be sued. In the US, we pay a fee with every vaccine that goes into a pot for distribution for vaccine injury compensation that is given out after going through vaccine court (which is staffed by the drug companies and NO media is allowed there.) I boycott companies that have shady practices, including medical companies.

2. I had boys first. Boys are more likely than girls to be vaccine injured.

3. After I realized that I absolutely would not allow my kids to be vaccinated against diseases I was not vaccinated for, I researched the other diseases and found that the likelihood of my children dying from these diseases in a fully developed country was next to zero.

4. I breastfeed beyond two years, which means my kids are less likely to get these diseases, and significantly less likely to have a severe case causing permanent damage if they do.

5. I am psychologically vaccine injured myself. I still get panic attacks when I see someone else getting a needle, and pass out often when I get one myself. I think the psychological damage of having a caregiver the child trusts pin them down and allow them to be literally stabbed into their muscle with a needle (which causes pain and soreness for DAYS) repeatedly throughout their childhood has not been researched or taken seriously AT ALL.

6. We have the technology and the means to have all childhood vaccines needle free and the drug companies will not change over because they have a mandated customer base and doing so unnecessarily costs them money. So, I won't even consider it until the drug companies start to realize I'm not their automatic customer and they DO have to take into consideration what the consumer wants.

7. Dr Paul Offitt, who the pro-vaccine community ALWAYS holds up as their major proponent, holds a patent for the rotavirus vaccine. Conflict of interest much? He said himself that cashing in on that was "like winning the lottery."

I have ZERO motivation to get other people on board with my way of thinking. Like I said, it's a highly individual choice that you should research yourself, since your conclusion is the only one that really matters. If you are interested, this was the video that most helped me make my decision.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pdLMeULoujM

The Vaccine Book, by Dr. Sears, is a great resource as well (and is pro-vaccine!)

[Little Lunasa]

Wow Lillith for someone with no motivation to get people on board, you have just persuaded me! Thank you so much for taking the time to write such a comprehensive answer, I have been researching vaccine damage for a while and had 99% decided against inoculation but it's great to hear from someone who's actually gone down that route. In Ireland people are slow to accept change and vaccines are seen as part of life., I haven't watched the video yet but I will certainly do so. My LO will remain toxin free I think :)


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[bluebonnet22]

I also recommend the Dr. Sears book. We are pro-vaccination but we gave DS a vaccine schedule more similar to the ones we were raised with 30 years ago. Example - the CDC now recommends Hepatitis B in the hospital the day the baby is born. I personally am not vaccinated against Hepatitis B and I felt it was ridiculous to vaccinate my newborn that was only hours old against a disease that is sexually transmitted.

DS goes to preschool and was required to be up to date before starting at preschool. After weighing the risks I felt OK with getting him his shots to go to school, but I understand there are those out there that feel differently.

[nuthinbutpink]

There is a major outbreak of whooping cough in the US right now. It is very contagious and very dangerous to young children. I would at least consider that one to start. It's 100% preventable with the vaccine and the epidemic has been caused by people "choosing" not to vaccinate.

[LilithWiser1979]

My issue with the pertussis argument is that about half of all pertussis cases are a B strain of the disease, for which there is no vaccine. We don't test most of the time for which strain people have, so an alert goes out to the community, persuading everyone to get vaccinated, without even knowing if the vaccines would help. The dTaP is also notorious for being among the least effective vaccines for pertussis.

[mommymachine]

I vaccinate my children. But I know how scary it is. It is terrifying. I feel that it is slightly less terrifying that the diseases though, which is why I do it. It is a very personal choice.

[Little Lunasa]

Thanks everyone for your input :)

[maidentomother]

My mom has always been very anti-vaccine and did her best to get me and my brother out of required vaccinations as much as possible. I used to be flat-out against them, too, and I still empathize with the anti-vax perspective to an extent.

Then I went to university and studied biology and developed quite an interest in immunology, microbiology and pharmacology. I quickly became convinced that the reasoning behind vaccines is extremely sound. Theoretically, vaccines are a great idea and historically, well worth the risks in most cases.

However, some vaccines contain(ed) toxic ingredients (such as formaldehyde in the Polio vaccine), often substances used a fixers or preservatives. I'm not talking about viral particles, the actual active ingredient in vaccines - those I consider generally safe. It's the inactive ingredients and solvents that concern me.*** So I carefully examine the ingredient list for each vaccine, and will only have/give my children vaccines with acceptable ingredients.

I also think Lilith's point #5 is a big deal (I agree with most of her points, actually), and I haven't yet decided how best to handle it. Probably I will delay as many vaccines as much as I can, hopefully until my children are old enough to understand why shots are needed. I will also choose non-injection vaccines whenever there is that option, and I might consider administering any necessary injections myself, at home, in the most painless manner possible (I'm trained in phlebotomy).

Of course I would love it if every other person on the planet were fully vaccinated so that my family wouldn't need to be, but that's both unrealistic and incredibly selfish, IMO. Already, several previously extinct or almost extinct viruses are on the rise bc more and more parents are avoiding vaccination.

***Note: I am extremely vigilant about all ingredient lists, whether for food/medicine/internally consumed products or externally applied products like soap, shampoo, lotion and even clothing. I buy organic whenever possible and religiously avoid most synthetics & petroleum products, including limiting the plastìc in my life as much as I can.

[nuthinbutpink]

Of course I would love it if every other person on the planet were fully vaccinated so that my family wouldn't need to be, but that's both unrealistic and incredibly selfish, IMO. Already, several previously extinct or almost extinct viruses are on the rise bc more and more parents are avoiding vaccination.


THIS is exactly what it is though. Vaccines work to eliminate diseases because everyone get them. Until recently, not until lots of people decided that they should not vaccinate because of 100% inaccurate info on autism, did we not see such and increase in certain things.

I am sure that the children in Africa would LOVE to have the benefit of vaccines.

This is from WHO- The World Health Organization

Key facts

Measles is one of the leading causes of death among young children even though a safe and cost-effective vaccine is available.
In 2012, there were 122 000 measles deaths globally – about 330 deaths every day or 14 deaths every hour.
Measles vaccination resulted in a 78% drop in measles deaths between 2000 and 2012 worldwide.
In 2012, about 84% of the world's children received one dose of measles vaccine by their first birthday through routine health services – up from 72% in 2000.

Since 2000, more than 1 billion children in high risk countries were vaccinated against the disease through mass vaccination campaigns ― about 145 million of them in 2012.

Measles is a highly contagious, serious disease caused by a virus. In 1980, before widespread vaccination, measles caused an estimated 2.6 million deaths each year.

It remains one of the leading causes of death among young children globally, despite the availability of a safe and effective vaccine. Approximately 122 000 people died from measles in 2012 – mostly children under the age of five.

Measles is caused by a virus in the paramyxovirus family. The measles virus normally grows in the cells that line the back of the throat and lungs. Measles is a human disease and is not known to occur in animals.

Accelerated immunization activities have had a major impact on reducing measles deaths. Since 2000, more than one billion children in high risk countries were vaccinated against the disease through mass vaccination campaigns ― about 145 million of them in 2012. Global measles deaths have decreased by 78% from an estimated 562 400 to 122 000.

I am sure the areas suffering from ebola will welcome a vaccine for it!! There are so many things that contain toxins that we breath or consume everyday...using the microwave releases them....so many millions have received vaccines and are 100% ok. The numbers of actual patients that have reactions or real issues actually caused by the vaccines, IMO, outweigh me risking my child getting a disease that he or she could have been protected against. I also get my kids a flu shot. I've had the flu. It's awful. If there a chance that the flu vaccine can prevent my child from suffering like I did, I am all for it. I feel the same about vaccines. I could care less about the drug companies making money. In America, we are a capitalist society. That's the way it works.

I understand that we all have different risk tolerances in life. The original poster asked though and that's my opinion. I don't lose any sleep at night because my kids are vaccinated and the fact that any unvaccinated kids get to benefit for my action, great for them too!

[rachel]

I work in health care and have seen some really bad- side effects from vaccines such as seizures paralysis and even cardiac arrest needless to say these side effects are written inside the box so you cant sue the company :/

[maidentomother]

NBP, indeed, everyone wants to benefit from herd immunity without having to put themselves at risk, no matter how minor or unlikely that risk might be. But as with most matters of importance, most people aren't focused on the bigger picture and the long term. Maybe I won't be either once I have kids.

Rachel, negative occurrences nearly always stand out much more than positive ones. It is true that some people react poorly to vaccines, a small minority severely so. But overall, vaccines prevent far, far, FAR more damage and death than they cause.

I'm no lover of Big Pharma, but bad reactions to medicine are not necessarily anyone's fault. As genetics and pharmacokinetics progress, we should be able to predict with increasing accuracy how individuals are likely to respond to drugs & vaccines and use that info to avoid the more serious reactions.

[mommymachine]

I think vaccine injuries can be compared to plane accidents. When one happens, everyone talks about it, hears about it...but nobody hears about or talks about the thousands of planes that get to where they need to be safely every time. If that metaphor makes sense.

[rachel]

Well its def is not easy telling a mother her brain damaged vaccine damaged child is a one off case and she needs to see the bigger picture...... also heard immunity has been debunked and there no 100% way to not contract any of those diseases.... i have seen paralysis from a flu vaccine more than once as well....... any how every one should make their own informed decisions and go back a little in history just to see how this all started and find the REAL statistics.... Anw i have seen some crazy side effects from alot of meds /vaccines but due to the big pharma keeping docs on their toes with holidays and cash you will rarely see this stuff officially documented. I know everyone wants to hear the pharmaceutical companies love us and want cures for all but this is not the world we live in i had to work in the biz to see this the hard way !

[ever hopeful]

Personally I think everyone should have the main vaccines unless there is a very sound reason why not - I know there are minor risks (and yes totally horrific beyond words, if something does happen and Rachel I'm so sorry you have seen cases in the course of your job), but there are risks in everything that we do in life. It has certainly been proved in London that the increased cases of measles in the last three years, which can have fatal and life threatening consequences, are absolutely down to a lower take up of the MMR vaccine amongst certain ethnic groups.

[Mamato3?]

Unfortunately in our days the health system is connected to financial profit, starting from MDs, to medical facilities, to goverments and ministers of health and of course pharmaceutical companies....
I have done all of the vaccinations for my DDs (the mandatory ones), though we were highly sceptical, because he had to before they started school (they are actually mandatory in Greece and the one for tubercolosis is done age 7 at school).
But as we are getting close to other -elective vaccines- like Gardasil or the tetanus I'm not so sure.
IMO, in general though, we must not take for granted what an MD suggests, without having it confirmed by a second or even third MD.
I know that most of us pay on their own for that, but as I know how the medical system works (I'm an administrating employee for 14 years in several medical facilities) I would not do anything I'm not happy with, just because an MD said so.

[maidentomother]

Definitely question everything and do your own research, I agree. That's always important bc money does drive the industry to a large extent.

Mamato3?, many vaccines are mandatory in most 1st world countries, and schools won't let you in without them. So it's the same in the US and also in Germany where I live. As for Gardasil, that's one vaccine I highly recommend everyone get (up until age 26, after that it is much less effective), and ideally it should be first given in early puberty, age 13 at the latest for optimal efficacy and disease prevention. Stupidly many countries are only recommending girls get it, but boys need it just as much as they can be HPV carriers and they can even get throat cancer from performing oral sex on either gender. HPV is one of the most widespread viruses and the primary cause of cervical cancer. Since most people will encounter HPV it's one of the most necessary vaccines IMO, it's not a 'just in case' vaccine. Gardasil also passed my personal ingredient check, if that matters to anyone!

[blueeyedguys]

I don't vaccinate. I've spent over a decade educating myself on the subject and the emperor has no clothes. The science is shoddy, at best, most likely fraudulent (check out the CDCwhistleblower & hearthiswell hashtags on Twitter & FB, Google a scientist from Denmark named Thorsen & the Merck whistleblower case, just to start).

Vaccines are actively harmful and reactions are far, far more common and more widespread than ever even remotely admitted to. Even when they "work" as claimed, all they really do is push the diseases into the ages that they are far more dangerous for. Vaccine "immunity" wears off after 10 yrs, max, many, including pertussis, wear off even faster, as quickly as 2-4 yrs, so herd immunity from vaccines is a complete myth. The vast majority of the adult population had their vaccines wear off decades ago.

Honestly, I could write volumes (and far more ambitious folks than I have) about the shoddy science, the hundreds upon hundreds of studies showing the risks, the false claims, the cover-ups. It's far too much for one post. If anyone is open to learning more, you can start with reading Dr.Suzanne Humpries book "Disolving Illusions", you can read Hilary Butler's extensively researched & footnoted books for free from her website, Beyond Conformity, you can watch Dr. Sherri Tenpenny's video "Vaccines: The Risks, The Benefits, The Choices", just to start.

If anyone wants to, they can message me. I'm not around much these days, so I have no clue when I'll get back to the thread, but I try to keep up with messages.

Eta The poster above me is mistaken. Most places have exemptions so kids can go to school without vaccines. There are a few countries that make it virtually impossible, along with Mississippi & West Virginia, but most places you do not need vaccines to go to school.

And Gardasil/Cervarix are the most useless AND most deadly of all current vaccines. If any other drug had even remotely the numbers of reactions, there would be a serious investigation. Several countries have pulled it from their recommended lists it's so bad.

[Christi]

I'm a cautious, reasonably well researched, pro-vaccine on a somewhat delayed schedule. I kind of follow the doctor sears book, but with my own modifications based on other research I found.

Others have covered many of the points that I would make (like most places allow for an exemption for personal beliefs, they do in California for sure (I'm a ca attorney, so I checked)).

The only thing I wanted to point out on the whooping cough vaccine is that the cdc recommends it at age 2 months. There was a study in Canada that if it was delayed until 6 months, there was a reduced risk of the baby developing asthma later. The vaccine doesn't "cause" asthma, rather, there was an increased correlation between the kids who got at 2 months, as compared to the kids that got their first dose at 6 months. There was no difference after a 4 month delay in the study. So we pushed that vaccine back to 6 months instead of the standard 2 month old administration.

I am also somewhat concerned about the chicken pox vaccine because as pointed out above, vaccines don't last forever, and getting chicken pox as an adult is much more dangerous than getting chicken pox as a child. If lifelong immunity is better from getting chicken pox at age 5 as compared to the vaccine that will probably wear off at a time when it is much more dangerous for my child to get chicken pox (adult), I think it might be better to suffer through a week of chicken pox.

Also, my understanding is that the rise in shingles amongst the elderly is correlated with the fact that they aren't getting the natural boost of immunity from being around kids with chicken pox anymore, requiring them to get the shingles vaccine instead to boost their waning natural immunity from having the chicken pox as a child. Does that make sense? I may not have explained it well.....


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[Mrs.tinkerbell]

What's your views on mmr jab? Both my children have had standard jabs so far but I alwsyas worry and dread them coz the amount of stuff they pumped into them but as a mum with no clue about what actually is in these jabs or how serious it would be if they didn't have them I kinda feel I have to go with what the doctors recommend.

[blueeyedguys]

Mumps & rubella are very minor illnesses for children and before the vaccine scaremongering, medical textbooks listed meales as a mild childhood illness, unlikely to cause problems. Vitamin A deficiency seems to be the biggest problem in complicating measles and it's rare in well nourished children. The MMR is not only a live virus vaccine, it is also one of the vaccines that uses aborted fetal tissue to create it. Personally, I'm against injecting foreign animal DNA (mostly due to possible contamination with unknown things eg SV-40 or the recently discovered retrovirus in Offit's rotavirus vaccine) but I'm really against injecting foreign human DNA

[MrsSparkles]

I wanted to update this thread.
As a FTM, I am really interested in finding the safest vaccine schedule for my baby.
I am not anti-vaccines, and I will be vaccinating for some things.
However, I am not convinced that the current schedule is the safest option for babies today.

I found an amazing (IMO) resource that gives practical advice for parents wanting to vaccinate their children :

1. Keep your vaccination records up to date. Vaccine damage has occurred in cases where children had been given additional vaccines by mistake.

2. Check the lot expiry dates. Problems can arise if a vaccine is out of date.

3. Check the lot/batch numbers with the recall numbers. Around 15% of the whooping cough vaccine is recalled for example, and there have been cases where not all the batches have been collected, resulting in litigation. It is CRUCIAL to have a record of the batch/ lot no/ expiry date because if your child has a severe reaction or dies, you will not be able to proceed effectively with a claim of litigation without this vital piece of information.
4. Consider using single vaccines.This requires careful research. The Health Protection Agency argues that this leaves children up-protected against some diseases and that is why single vaccines are not licensed anymore. However, this route does give much flexibility for parents who want to choose a different vaccine program for their child. Dr Halvorsen at BabyJabs offers open consultations and aluminium free vaccines.

If using single vaccines for the MMR it has been suggested that 1 year be left between live vaccines. (Currently, the mumps single vaccine is not available.) Japan opted for single vaccines but saw the rate of autism rise! However, 3 jabs were often given within a month, sometimes on the same day.

5. Consider the 'merits' of each vaccine separately. For example does an eight week old baby need tetanus? Is chicken pox necessary?

6. Wait until your child is older. At least wait until your baby is an average weight of an 8 week old, or is at least 8 weeks after the due date if premature. Better still, wait until 6 months. Maternal antibodies will have passed via the placenta and through milk of a breast feeding mother and will offer some protection for about the first 6 months of life, and for that reason the dosage is far higher for young children. The last generation began vaccination at 3 months and left longer intervals between vaccines.

In Japan, during the changing of the vaccination program to start at 2 years old, they enjoyed the lowest child mortality in the world. Two years old is considered a milestone in development of the immune system. (Six years is when the immune and brain is more fully developed although the brain is still developing until 21.) However, when Japan came into line with other countries and vaccinated at 2 months child mortality rose and cot death was seen.

In Denmark they vaccinate babies with DTP at 3, 5 and 9 months and they only give children far less vaccines compared to the US, and have considerably lower rates of Autism and Asthma. However, even in Denmark the rates for autism are increasing.

Government Concedes Vaccine-Autism Case in Federal US Court

You can choose if, when and with what your child is vaccinated.

7. Ask that the nurse / Dr swabs first - bacterial infections from the injection and resulting antibiotics are not uncommon.

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8. Monitor your child closely after vaccinations. Even consider sleeping with them or using an alarm. Fits are known to occur in a minority of children, often 10 days after the MMR for example. Breathing during the night takes a dip a few days after and a few weeks after the DTP jab. (It is not known how breathing patterns are affect at night after the new 5-in-one jab).

See Net Doctor

9. If constant fever lasts more than a few days or if you child fits then see your doctor. Fits, for example, occur in one in a thousand children after the MMR vaccination. They need to be monitored and the child can be helped if caught early. Calpol, etc does not reduce the risk of febrile convulsions. Convulsions linked to illness do not appear to cause any lasting neurological problems although fits in otherwise well children are of concern. See your Dr also if your child's behaviour changes or if your child development regresses, e.g. speech. Take more precaution with babies.
10. Be aware of allergy issues. Be aware of the peanut and albumen (egg) content if your family suffers severe allergies. Research shows that if such an allergy has already presented, administration of the vaccine will not trigger a reaction. (Children with allergies used to be vaccinated in hospital.) However, we are not aware of any research which compares the prevalence of such allergies amongst non-vaccinated children! The proteins in the vaccine may be responsible for some allergies.

Research shows that by delaying vaccines from 2 months to 4 months halves the risk of Asthma.

11. Be aware that vaccinated children contract these diseases also. For example, cases of persistent cough are often Whooping Cough (sometimes called Bronchiolitis). One borough recently found Whooping Cough in nearly half of the cases of persistent cough tested in their primary school children. Nearly 90% appeared in fully vaccinated children. A recent study found that whooping cough is found more in the fully vaccinated. See BMJ

Measles also appears in the vaccinated populations but will present in a slightly different way (e.g. a rash first appearing on the stomach rather than on the head.) This illustrates that all parents must be vigilant in recognizing disease. Statistics will not always reveal patterns of disease due to mis-diagnosis and political manipulation.

The Meningitis Foundation, for example, didn't have figures on the the vaccine status of those contracting meningitis!
12. If your child doesn't reach developmental milestones, e.g. speech, consider delaying vaccines until you know more.

13. Ask to read the Vaccine Insert first. The insert will often reveal more than you will be told by your GP e.g did you know that a side effect of the rubella vaccine is juvenile arthritis?

Health disclaimer. Every care has been taken when writing this website to ensure the accuracy of the material provided. However the authors cannot accept responsibility for any damage or harm caused by any advice or information given in this website. The decision is yours. If you have any doubts about vaccinations, you should consult a medically qualified practitioner.