clomid & femara for those without pcos

[mysweetboys]

So I have talked to a dr who says I can try Clomid since I don't seem to ovulate every cycle. However, I do ovulate sometimes, just not consistently.

I am wondering if there has been anyone who has looked into if these drugs sway for women without PCOS or if it has something to do with that.
I don't want to risk multiples if it only sways if you have PCOS... Does that make sense?


Has anyone tried to determine if the clomid/femara sways on it's own or only in conjunction with PCOS or some other form of infertility?

ETA: They say I can just try a trigger shot first if I don't want to do the clomid. Does anyone know how that sways? Just a trigger shot with 1 attempt? No clomid or IUI?

[atomic sagebrush]

It sways for EVERYONE, especially those without PCOS. Tons of people without PCOS have gotten girls on Clomid.

[mysweetboys]

Thank you!!
Do you know if femara is the same??

Have to decide before tomorrow which way I want to go...
I'm getting all anxiety-y which isn't good for pink!!

[maidentomother]

Both femara and clomid actually sway MORE pink for ladies without PCOS, since PCOS sways blue. So either is great for pink! If you're older, I'd go with femara.

[mysweetboys]

Ok. My dr says they usually go with clomid, but I got the feeling that although they might look at me funny, they would give me the other if I wanteed

[maidentomother]

How old are you again?

[mysweetboys]

36. Will be 37 in June

[maidentomother]

Femara is better for older women and has fewer side effects, plus the reduced chance of multiples. However, some drs won't prescribe femara as they consider it a cancer only drug.

I don't think it will hurt to ask femara though bc even if the dr says no, you'll still get clomid bc you so obviously need help to O.

[atomic sagebrush]

Thank you!!
Do you know if femara is the same??

Have to decide before tomorrow which way I want to go...
I'm getting all anxiety-y which isn't good for pink!!

A recent study showed that Femara was actually more pink-friendly than Clomid (but Clomid is pretty darn pink friendly LOL)

[atomic sagebrush]

Ok. My dr says they usually go with clomid, but I got the feeling that although they might look at me funny, they would give me the other if I wanteed

I would just probably folllow doc's advice on that - see what happens if they give you the Clomid. I am concerned if you go in asking for this or that, that they will decide not to give you anything (this happens sometimes)

[HealthyGirl]

Do we have women on here that didn't have PCOS and used clomid and did LE and swayed pink?


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[mysweetboys]

Well it looks like we have more problems than I thought.

I'm bummed. We may have to go the HT route after all, and I'm super bummed now that we didn't do it a year ago when we almost did.

I have to have a SHG next week to look at a fibroid that they found today. Along with my follicles not behaving well. The dr that I saw today had very little confidence in just medicating my cycles. For several reasons.

[maidentomother]

kit, yes, several pink swayers who took clomid (the majority I think) don't have PCOS, and either took clomid purely for swaying purposes or bc they lost O or had short LPs. And most got girls. Keep in mind most were doing diet and other things to sway, too.

mysweetboys, I'm so sorry to hear that. What exactly did the dr say about your follicles?

[mysweetboys]

Well, there was what looked like 1 follicle ready to ovulate. Maybe. Which shouldn't be on cd5.
If not it was a leftover from the failed last cycle.
But the other follicle count was bad. There were only a couple of potential follicles on each side. And they said with the super short cycles, which indicated poor reproductive age, very few follicles, and the fibroid, that we could do whatever we want, but probably it would be a waste of time.
And I don't have time to waste, neither physically or personally.

ETA: this office is really good. They've helped friends of mine and have been great... So I trust them.

[mysweetboys]

Is there any reason to sway if I end up going HT?

[maidentomother]

Ahh, low AFC. Did you get an official diagnosis of DOR (diminished ovarian reserve)? It sounds like that is the issue. I would go for femara over clomid considering that, though it's always possible you would respond well to clomid.

If you go HT you should NOT sway as you want to optimize your fertility for IVF, not reduce it by swaying pink. But you may not be a very goid candidate for HT if you have DOR. I will be very interested to see what your blood tests reveal- if you have high FSH/low AMH, you may have more luck getting a THB via swaying.

[mysweetboys]

I guess I will know more this week...

I didn't get an official diagnosis. They are waiting on some tests.
I wish I knew if I should start taking supplements to improve fertility or keep swaying.
I have to admit I cheated last night and this morning because I'm just frustrated with the whole thing.

The dr made it sound like clomid or femara would be a waste of my time and I needed to go IVF. My friend says that particular dr is a little gloom and doom though, and the one she likes, who will be my actual dr but was out of town, is much more positive. So we'll see what he says on Wednesday.

I thought about going HT purely for gender at one point, so maybe this is a sign I should just do it. I'm a big chicken though.

[atomic sagebrush]

Do we have women on here that didn't have PCOS and used clomid and did LE and swayed pink?


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Yes. I think I answered this earlier in this thread if you go back and look at the first page.

[mysweetboys]

So I just got a +opk at cd6.... Which is crazy on its own.
I don't know if we should even attempt now or not!
I cheated last night and this morning on the diet. Been on it for almost 4 weeks now.
And have been very strict except for the last day.

I almost feel like I should go HT and guarantee my girl ( I know there's no guarantee it would work but if it did it would be a girl)...
Or try tonight. I don't know.

I know no one can tell me this but I really just don't know what to do...

And what does it mean for my cycles that they are so short? The dr yesterday made that sound like a bad thing on its own. If they were getting so short it could be the end if my fertile window or something.

[XXforhubby]

You could always attempt- you never know if/when you might release a good egg.

What do mean by short cycles? Do you mean from AF to AF is short? A short follicular phase (first half of cycle), or a short luteal phase (second half of cycle)?

I know things seem really bad right now, but I would try and remain positive. More often than not, when our fertility decreases, it does like a dial and not a light switch. Decreased fertility means it can take longer to achieve a pregnancy but it doesn't mean you can't. What it means is the body has to work harder. The only way you can't is once we experience true menopause.

I want to give you a cyber hug, because I know how news like this can be devastating. My FSH came back 45 and my AMH wasn't even detectable! Everything else though was well in the normal limits, AFC and lining thickness. I was told I was well into menopause, even though I have NO symptoms and still BFing. WTH?! My point is while these tests indicate certain things, they can't tell us if we can get pregnant or not. I am still ovulating even though my numbers are bad. The doctor couldn't explain that.

Be realistic. It will take us longer. But don't let anyone tell you that it can't or won't happen, because they don't know. I am praying and trying acupuncture. Since everything but my hormone levels are fine, I am working to balance my hormones through acupuncture and Yoga (for mental sanity). Keep trying if you want to and try to work to achieve peace and balance. That is what I am doing.

FX and GL to you [emoji173]️[emoji173]️[emoji173]️


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[mysweetboys]

I just realized that I can't really even attempt because I have that SHG test scheduled for Wed...
No point in attempting if it would just be washed away

[maidentomother]

So I just got a +opk at cd6.... Which is crazy on its own.
I don't know if we should even attempt now or not!
I cheated last night and this morning on the diet. Been on it for almost 4 weeks now.
And have been very strict except for the last day.

I almost feel like I should go HT and guarantee my girl ( I know there's no guarantee it would work but if it did it would be a girl)...
Or try tonight. I don't know.

I know no one can tell me this but I really just don't know what to do...

And what does it mean for my cycles that they are so short? The dr yesterday made that sound like a bad thing on its own. If they were getting so short it could be the end if my fertile window or something.

Do you ONLY want a girl or do you want another child regardless of gender? If the latter, I would attempt. If you want a girl only, I'd wait until you have at least 8w on the diet, if not 12w.

Drs do make a LOT more money from IVF and bc of the statistics they can be very pessimistic, but as XX explained in her excellent comment, even with bad numbers you may very well still be able to conceive, especially since you ARE Oing at least some of the time on you own. Plus, as I said before, often women with bad numbers have more luck on their own or with clomid/femara than IVF, as bad test results can mean you respond poorly or not at all to ovarian stimulation. Then again, maybe you'll respond much better than expected to stims - you just never know for sure. Regardless I think you have a good shot at a daughter one route or the other, simply based on your age and having had multiple children already. How old are your boys? Did you have any issues conceiving them?

In your particular situation, if you are actually Oing in a day or two, such early O could be another sign of diminishing ovarian reserve. It could also be much later O (around CD26) than you think if you didn't O last cycle and your 'AF' was actually breakthrough bleeding. Wasn't it last cycle you didn't have a proper temp rise? Also, what OPKs are you using?

XX, about half her cycles are under 21 days, some as short as 18 days, going back over a year. Based on her 2 cycles of temping, I think she's Oing about half the time with the other 'AFs' actually being breakthrough bleeding.

[mysweetboys]

Maiden, I don't know.
I want a girl badly. Badly enough that I was considering HT before I knew I needed help conceiving...
I have SO many dreams about her. A name. Such a great room.
Ok yeah. I want a girl. Thanks for making me say that all "out loud"...
I guess I am waiting to see what the Drs say this week and we'll make a decision.
I guess what I don't want more than anything, is to try unsuccessfully for a year and then have to do IVF anyway...
My window is closing, not due so much to my age, but to my kids' ages (6 & almost 4) and to my DH's attitude... He wants to do it now or never and he has always thought we should go HT, basically to get the job done. I'm the one that has hesitations about it.

[XXforhubby]

Well at least you have the support of DH to go HT. I would suspend judgment until you see the doctor again. I would listen to what they say and ask for non-invasive strategies first, since you have hesitations with IVF.

Hang in there! Maybe once they clear your tubes your body can start to do its thing more efficiently. I bet that is the biggest culprit.

FX! Keep us posted!


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[maidentomother]

I hope your test results provide some insight on which path to pursue. To me it sounds like HT would suit you & DH best, if your drs think you will respond decently. If IVF doesn't work out, you can always try swaying after. We've had multiple ladies who didn't have success with IVF but went on to sway successfully for their daughters. No matter what you have options, and a very supportive DH from the sounds of it.

[atomic sagebrush]

Is there any reason to sway if I end up going HT?

NO, you can't sway if you go HT (other than using OLE to possibly help get more XX than XY fert. eggs) BUT I do want to point out that your odds may actually be better just chugging along TTC month after month the old fashioned way.

To a little boy with a hammer, everything he encounters looks like a nail, but to an RE, every woman having trouble conceiving looks like a potential case for IVF. This isn't necessarily the case and I think you need to have a very serious discussion about what your odds of getting pregnant with your own eggs, with IVF, even ARE. THey may very well be quite dismal (sorry to sound harsh, I just want you to understand what we're facing here) and you will have to do a lot of invasive stuff and wait out many months you could be TTC.

For IVF to succeed (especially with PGD for a girl) you have to be able to make LOTS of eggs. You cannot do that (if what he's saying is true). But what you CAN do is possibly make a good egg every now and then on your own - and we can fiddle with diet and some supps to make that more likely. You may only make one or two good eggs a year, but with TTC naturally, you only NEED one good egg. YOu don't have to be able to make 30 eggs at once, just one. We like to call this egg Goldie the Golden Egg. The best way to proceed ~may be~ for you to just be like the Little Engine That Could and tell yourself, I'm not gonna get discouraged, I'm gonna keep chugging away month after month and be in position to catch Goldie when she shows up.

RE's do see some people who really truly have NO chance of conception on their own. For those people, it may be worth any sum of money to at least try - after all, if you have zero chances on your own, one in a thousand may still be better than nothing. But a lot of people go into RE's with a better chance on their own than IVF and I have seen WAYYYY too many people who had fine odds of conceiving on their own (and in fact then went on to do so) being told by RE's that they needed IVF and being bullied and scared into it.

The other alternative is to consider donor eggs or embryos but I suspect you're not there just yet.

[atomic sagebrush]

Maiden, I don't know.
I want a girl badly. Badly enough that I was considering HT before I knew I needed help conceiving...
I have SO many dreams about her. A name. Such a great room.
Ok yeah. I want a girl. Thanks for making me say that all "out loud"...
I guess I am waiting to see what the Drs say this week and we'll make a decision.
I guess what I don't want more than anything, is to try unsuccessfully for a year and then have to do IVF anyway...
My window is closing, not due so much to my age, but to my kids' ages (6 & almost 4) and to my DH's attitude... He wants to do it now or never and he has always thought we should go HT, basically to get the job done. I'm the one that has hesitations about it.

Sorry only just now read this - I would consider donor eggs or embryos very seriously.

[atomic sagebrush]

So I just got a +opk at cd6.... Which is crazy on its own.
I don't know if we should even attempt now or not!
I cheated last night and this morning on the diet. Been on it for almost 4 weeks now.
And have been very strict except for the last day.

I almost feel like I should go HT and guarantee my girl ( I know there's no guarantee it would work but if it did it would be a girl)...
Or try tonight. I don't know.

I know no one can tell me this but I really just don't know what to do...

And what does it mean for my cycles that they are so short? The dr yesterday made that sound like a bad thing on its own. If they were getting so short it could be the end if my fertile window or something.

WE need to switch you to a different diet now. http://genderdreaming.com/forum/gender-swaying-general-discussion/9052-swaying-under-special-circumstances-part-3-pcos.html Use atomic fertility diet and you can either do the swaying variation or the one for those who may end up going HT.

Switch to 2000 mcg folate and CoQ10 400 mg daily

What it means that your cycles are getting short is that your body "senses" that you may be coming to the end of the road with your fertility and it's stepping up the pace, shooting out as many eggs as it can in the hopes that one may be fertilized. It is (sorry, just giving it straight) a worse sign than it would be if you had bad results but normal cycles still.

[atomic sagebrush]

I just realized that I can't really even attempt because I have that SHG test scheduled for Wed...
No point in attempting if it would just be washed away

you can always reschedule the SHG. if your numbers are bad, I doubt that is what the issue is. Go with your gut though.

[maidentomother]

WE need to switch you to a different diet now. http://genderdreaming.com/forum/gender-swaying-general-discussion/9052-swaying-under-special-circumstances-part-3-pcos.html Use atomic fertility diet and you can either do the swaying variation or the one for those who may end up going HT.

Switch to 2000 mcg folate and CoQ10 400 mg daily

What it means that your cycles are getting short is that your body "senses" that you may be coming to the end of the road with your fertility and it's stepping up the pace, shooting out as many eggs as it can in the hopes that one may be fertilized. It is (sorry, just giving it straight) a worse sign than it would be if you had bad results but normal cycles still.

I don't think that's what is happening. I think she is actually having 40+ day cycles with breakthrough bleeding halfway through and she's been marking the BB as AF so it appears she is having short cycles. But based on the temping and the alternating pattern, I really think she's actually having long cycles. I've seen almost the exact same pattern in other women, confirmed by many months of temping.

[atomic sagebrush]

also a possibility!! thanks for pointing that out.

[mysweetboys]

I am so sorry, so many good replies and I've been out of the loop.
This week I should get all my blood tests back and when a second RE (that I actually wanted to see) did the SHG and ultrasound he said there were more eggs in there than the other guy thought. He said the other guy is young and constantly worried so making things sound worse than they are... Not using him!
So I'm holding off making a decision until we get bloods back but my DH is really pushing for the IVF so I am pretty sure we'll do at least a cycle and see how I respond.

Also, this dr said there was no fibroid and it looked like both my ovaries have cysts which could be causing many of these issues. So I'm on bcp for 1 cycle to see if that fixes the cysts.

I will keep you all posted!

[atomic sagebrush]

Thanks for updating and wishing you the very very best of luck!