How do we know that frequent release and abstaining sway pink?

[mandicane]

I know we don't know why but are there any links to studies that have done this? Just wondering how "they" know this to be true. Thanks

[rainbowflower]

I don't think there are any studies done that have tested this specifically (I've had a look and haven't found any), although the theory is that doing this lowers sperm count and there are existing studies that show that lower sperm count sways pink (haven't seen those either).

I asked the same question a week or so ago: http://genderdreaming.com/forum/showthread.php?4749-Studies-showing-that-abstinance-frequent-release-sways and had quite a few replies, so maybe that'll help

[atomic sagebrush]

If you can bear with me a bit longer guys, I will post a LONG list of all the studies I can get my mitts on.

Until then, a quick Google search will turn up dozens of studies that link low sperm count/quality to having more daughters.

The thinking is, if men with low sperm count are having more daughters, then it makes sense to lower our husband's sperm counts in order to sway pink. Abstinence and frequent release are both proven to lower sperm count.

So it's not that there is a specific study (that I am aware of anyway) that shows abstinence/FR sway pink, but there ARE studies that show that A/FR lower sperm count and also studies that say lower sperm count sways pink...we're just kinda connecting the dots between them.

[XXdreaming]

My husband got prostitis back when ttc dc3, sperm count low and very watery we did finally conceive but it still ended in a boy lol so I think my thing is vaginal environment, but it does sound true those that have difficulties conceiving and did not use fertility drugs have more girls than boys(the people I know) but I would love to know why, I thought they proved x and y sperm were equal that x wasn't stronger then y?

[mandicane]

Thanks for the info. I will do a google search and see what there is.

[queen-of-harts]

Prostitis can give semen a very high PH!

[XXdreaming]

Prostitis can give semen a very high PH!

Ahh thank you! I often wondered what happen there :) so I need to spread the word prostitis sways boy, hopefully he won't get it again but I definitely won't be ttcing until its cured,

But still would love to know why low sperm count favors girls if x and y are equal, do men with low sperm count have a natural low ph?

[queen-of-harts]

Well i think it would depend on how it swayed i mean if it really effected one mans sperm count and his ph then maybe it would sway pink but if another man it only effected his sperm count a tiny bit and his ph also then maybe it would sway blue more.I know there have been threads on why low count sways maybe try the search button and try and look it up.Not sure if low count always means low ph,probably not but others will chime in maybe.

[zanacal]

I'm quoting an old post of Atomic's here - the same concept was also discussed in the past couple of days on the thread wondering how boy/girl twins are conceived:

'My own personal theory is, since X sperm are KNOWN to be slightly larger, they may be able to penetrate an egg singlehandedly or with very little help given enough time (it takes many many sperm to allow only one to fertilize the egg), while Y sperm, being smaller, may need or somehow be given a leg up by high numbers of sperm around the egg. Having less sperm around the egg may make it next to impossible for Y sperm to fertilize the egg and so the X wins by default, even if it takes several hours for it to burrow through the egg shell. No difference in the way they swim, their speed, their liking for pH, calcium, or anything...all those things do is just make it extra hard for ALL sperm to reach the egg, so less make it to the egg.'

[rainbowflower]

I'm quoting an old post of Atomic's here - the same concept was also discussed in the past couple of days on the thread wondering how boy/girl twins are conceived:

'My own personal theory is, since X sperm are KNOWN to be slightly larger, they may be able to penetrate an egg singlehandedly or with very little help given enough time (it takes many many sperm to allow only one to fertilize the egg), while Y sperm, being smaller, may need or somehow be given a leg up by high numbers of sperm around the egg. Having less sperm around the egg may make it next to impossible for Y sperm to fertilize the egg and so the X wins by default, even if it takes several hours for it to burrow through the egg shell. No difference in the way they swim, their speed, their liking for pH, calcium, or anything...all those things do is just make it extra hard for ALL sperm to reach the egg, so less make it to the egg.'
actually that makes perfect sense - they all have to chip away at that hard shell around the egg don't they?

[mandicane]

This makes sense to me. My own personal theory is that people who have a lot of sex tend to have more girls. Out of the people I know who have girls, their sex life seems to be pretty active (according to them). And if frequent release = more girls than this could be a possibility.

[atomic sagebrush]

This makes sense to me. My own personal theory is that people who have a lot of sex tend to have more girls. Out of the people I know who have girls, their sex life seems to be pretty active (according to them). And if frequent release = more girls than this could be a possibility.

Yes, I have noticed this too. A lot of people when newly married seem to have girls and I have seen many families where the first child is a girl and then they go onto have just TONS of boys afterwards. Mel Gibson and Franklin Roosevelt are examples of this and I know several LDS families in our area that fit this profile (so the old idea that families with a boy and a girl just quit trying, is not true in these people's cases.) I don't know of a single fam. where the first child is a boy and then they have several girls, and I know prob. 2 dozen families with 6-10 children (this is ONLY observation and I have no hard data to back it up.)

On the other hand, babies conceived right after wars and when husbands are home on leave from the military are more likely to be boys and I know that some researchers think it's because the couples are DTD a lot. The thinking would be that frequent BD raises testosterone, but I'm not sure that there is enough time during a military leave for a guy's T levels to rise appreciably.

Anyway, it's not cut and dry in either direction unfortunately!!!

[atomic sagebrush]

My husband got prostitis back when ttc dc3, sperm count low and very watery we did finally conceive but it still ended in a boy lol so I think my thing is vaginal environment, but it does sound true those that have difficulties conceiving and did not use fertility drugs have more girls than boys(the people I know) but I would love to know why, I thought they proved x and y sperm were equal that x wasn't stronger then y?

Prostatitis causes pH to rise http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1863829/pdf/procrsmed00041-0063.pdf so even though his count may have been down, the high pH prob. helped more of his sperm to survive the harsh conditions of the vagina until it made it to the safety of your CM. So even though less may have been coming out of the gates, more swimmers were able to survive to race to the egg. We don't know WHY the numbers seem to matter, only that they do.

A different guy with low sperm count who does NOT have high pH, his sperm would be less likely to survive the harsh vaginal environment and make it to the safety of the cervical crypts. And some women also have less/drier CM to begin with and that makes it much harder for a sperm to make it to the "big time" and have a shot at an egg.

So people with fertility issues could have a DH with low sperm count and normal or low pH that doesn't help maximize sperm numbers, and also the DW could have issues with CM (Clomid actually CAUSES hostile CM), or both, and so overall, these couples are more likely to conceive girls.

I think you've already read this one, Melinda, but just to re-share for anyone who hasn't seen it, X and Y sperm are believed to be equally hardy and long lived. http://genderdreaming.com/forum/showthread.php?1562-What-are-the-REAL-differences-between-X-sperm-and-Y-sperm

[atomic sagebrush]

I'm quoting an old post of Atomic's here - the same concept was also discussed in the past couple of days on the thread wondering how boy/girl twins are conceived:

'My own personal theory is, since X sperm are KNOWN to be slightly larger, they may be able to penetrate an egg singlehandedly or with very little help given enough time (it takes many many sperm to allow only one to fertilize the egg), while Y sperm, being smaller, may need or somehow be given a leg up by high numbers of sperm around the egg. Having less sperm around the egg may make it next to impossible for Y sperm to fertilize the egg and so the X wins by default, even if it takes several hours for it to burrow through the egg shell. No difference in the way they swim, their speed, their liking for pH, calcium, or anything...all those things do is just make it extra hard for ALL sperm to reach the egg, so less make it to the egg.'

Thank you, I knew I had written that out somewhere!

I don't know that my theory is true, of course, but it does seem to explain a lot without having to make up imaginary mechanisms (sperm "liking" different pH, swimming at different speeds, living different amounts of time, and/or being attracted to the egg by electrical charges) to do so. That is the one thing that scientific theories are supposed to do - explain without making stuff up...although obviously that isn't true across the boards or we would have no theory about gravity LOL. "Imagine some force that sucks stuff down to the Earth..." ;)

[mandicane]

I don't know of a single fam. where the first child is a boy and then they have several girls, and I know prob. 2 dozen families with 6-10 children (this is ONLY observation and I have no hard data to back it up.)

So true! I can't think of a family I know either...strange.

[atomic sagebrush]

Well, the usual explanation is that a lot of people DO stop trying after they have a boy and a girl, so it ~may~ be that most people quit trying once they get the pigeon pair.

[purplepoet20]

My Mormon cousins with many kids...
Ty - has BGB but they were trying and Ty had a good job so they could afford whatever.
La - has BGGBBGG they never really cared about what they had but just got lucky.
Be - has GGGG (all red heads). She wanted a B but they are very happy with their girls.
Ti - has GGB but I neer asked her if she did anything to favor B or G, she would be the one to be fully honest.
Dn - Has GGG? they don't know what it is yet. But oddly they always eat a balanced diet of fruits, veg, protein, and grains daily... The mom skips breakfast and that is the only girl thing she does. Dn has promised his wife atleast 2 more kids after this one.
Gr - Has GGGB (Carson was born barely a wk ago) and Gr told me that they were actively trying as soon as the last baby was 1yo. The B was just a surprise because everyone got sick and they weren't in the mood for 5-6 days and decided to DTD because she knew she was Ov.



My bro... has GBG and he had fertility issues and had to use drugs for the G's. The B was a surprise BFP when the older G was 13mths. I know they were not trying and they were eating larger meals because my SIL was bfing still.

[sassy86]

Hi ya is there any updated info on this topic whether its better to do frequent release or abstain?

[atomic sagebrush]

Neither one is working, both are lower than the overall results of the site and I would a) not do either or b) do whichever one your husband is willing to go for.

The exception is men over 35 shoudl not do abstain and men over 40 may NOT be able to do FR so it boils down to practicality

[sassy86]

Ok thank you atomic, my husband isn't keen on abstaining as he is worried about the old sperm and he is 32 but I thought if the results were higher with abstaining then I would try and convince him. However he is happy to fr everyday but not dtd until I get a pos on opks and then have him release and disregard it and then dtd maybe an hour later after a hot shower, does this way also sway pink?
Thank you

[atomic sagebrush]

The cardinal rule of swaying is "if daddy ain't happy, ain't nobody happy". If he wants the FR then DO THAT. It is NOT worth it having an uncooperative hubby because then they start to rebel and say they are doing things (like abstain) when they aren't. :/

[atomic sagebrush]

Don't mix BOTH the daily FR and then the hurry up FR (the release an hour before). Pick one or the other. Doing both cuts odds of conception too far and many husbands were not able to complete the transaction when they tried it. Even the ones who are sex machines had a heck of a time with that combo

[sassy86]

again atomic thank you so much for being so helpful, ok great so do we know whether the girl results are higher with FR or the release an hour before? (apologise for so many questions)

[atomic sagebrush]

None of the frequency patterns have stood out against any of the others. All of them were about the overall success rates of the site or even lower. (in other words, they don't seem to work). Keep the one attempt, that DOES seem to work.

[sassy86]

thank you so ONE attempt then and would you say a day before pos opks so its roughly a 3 day cut off, so even thou my DH wont abstain is it still worth Fr but not not DTD or would you just forget about that part of it and carry on as usual?

[atomic sagebrush]

I am not following your question, can you rephrase? Sorry.

[Atsaukina1]

If you fr it can be dtd/ pull out or solo or skip frequency and do j&d/ one attempt.f you are doing one attempt its usually at positive opk since you don't know what a day before is for a cutoff.

[sassy86]

sorry I don't think I worded it properly I was just panicking as im not abstaining I thought that it may lower my chances. Ok so ill do one attempt once I get a pos opk which is usually cd 15-16 im on cd 8 and in the mean time as I think it is now to late for abstaining DH can frequent release if it wants to (solo) so that we are not having more than one attempt.
also I usually get a faint line a day or so before I get a strong positive so should I DTD when I get my faint line or wait until I get a strong line?
thank you

[atomic sagebrush]

Yes many people just let DH "do what he does" and then have the one attempt.

Wait till your line is dark as or darker than the control line.