Is hcg produced after conception or implantation?

[eme1ieh]

Hi!

Is it true that hCG levels shoot up only a day or two after conception? (But not _that_ high) This could explains why so many women notice symptoms within about 2-3 days of ovulating - especially the tingling bbs and tiredness. It make sense to me! Last time i was pregnant i was zombie tired just 2 days after ovulation. This tiredness has never occorred cycles that have ended with AF.

[nuthinbutpink]

HCG is produced by the cells that form the placenta after implantation. Implantation cannot occur until 5 days after ovulation at the earliest. People often mistake their exact O date.

[eme1ieh]

Actually I've found some text that confirm this, but this is not any scientific text..

[eme1ieh]

I'm temping and know when i ovulating. :)

[maidentomother]

Those symptoms you're feeling are due to rising progesterone levels, not hcg, which doesn't enter your blood ****** until implantation as NBP explained.

[eme1ieh]

Is it possible that your body produce more progesterone when you've conceived? In some way.. It's like i'm having higher progesterone levels really early when we've conceived compared with when we haven't conceived. :)

[nuthinbutpink]

Actually I've found some text that confirm this, but this is not any scientific text..

I'm not even sure what that means but progesterone can cause symptoms as the pp says. Progesterone levels rise after ovulation and either keep rising if pregnancy is established or fall if there is no pregnancy to support. So, 2-3 days past O, it's not HCG.

So your symptoms are due to progesterone and not to HCG at that point. The levels that early are the same each month, pregnant it not because it comes from the corpus lutem and not the egg.

[nuthinbutpink]

Progesterone levels are typically at their highest between days five and nine of a woman’s cycle; after this, hormone levels begin to drop. Day 26 should then be just before a woman’s menstrual period starts. After ovulation, the Progesterone levels begin to rise and the cycle repeats itself. The hormone’s levels rise post-ovulation making a woman more fertile during this period. You can time the level of progesterone by charting your basal body temperature or by using an ovulation prediction kit. Progesterone is at its peak when it is above 10 mg/ml.

[LacePrincess]

Agree with everything NBP says. Progesterone causes symptoms very much the same as early pregnancy symptoms - fatigue, frequent urination, nausea, vivid dreams in my case, gassiness and bloating, etc. Hcg can't be produced till after implantation since before the embryo implants the body doesn't even know conception has occurred, at that point the fertilized egg is just free floating down the tubes and into the uterus.

Crinone or prog supplements produce exactly the same side symptoms as early pregnancy too, so pregnancy-like symptoms at only 3-4DPO are from progesterone, not HCG.

[eme1ieh]

Thank you :)

[atomic sagebrush]

HCG is produced by the cells that form the placenta after implantation. Implantation cannot occur until 5 days after ovulation at the earliest. People often mistake their exact O date.

:agree: a million % and it's more likely 7 DPO at the very very earliest.

[atomic sagebrush]

Is it possible that your body produce more progesterone when you've conceived? In some way.. It's like i'm having higher progesterone levels really early when we've conceived compared with when we haven't conceived. :)

Anything is possible, but MUCH more likely is that you happen to conceive in months when ALL your hormone levels are higher, estrogen, etc. and some evidence indicates that this is the case. People's temperature fluctuations are often much more pronounced in months they go on to conceive (lower before ovulation due to lots of estrogen, and then higher after ovulation due to lots of progesterone, with a major temp dip at about 7 DPO due to secondary estrogen surge) and this is NOT because they have conceived - because you can't conceive till you've ovulated, LOL - but because when your body is making a lot of good hormones, you're in a better place to get pregnant!

[atomic sagebrush]

Actually I've found some text that confirm this, but this is not any scientific text..

If it is just people talking about what they think happened, it is not worth anything. People get a BFP and tend to then have photographic memories of everyhting that happened in a particular month and forget every little weird thing that happened in other months.

I can tell you for a fact I have had nausea and sore BB's 2-3 DPO in months I was not pregnant.

[LacePrincess]

If it is just people talking about what they think happened, it is not worth anything. People get a BFP and tend to then have photographic memories of everyhting that happened in a particular month and forget every little weird thing that happened in other months.

I can tell you for a fact I have had nausea and sore BB's 2-3 DPO in months I was not pregnant.

Yep, and I really regret not taking better notes sometimes in my FF charts because our memories are certainly selective!!

But for sure I get nausea in lots and LOTS of cycles with BFN's. Nowadays I'm just glad when I do since it means I'm actually getting some progesterone going!

[atomic sagebrush]

This one time I was at the grocery store and this woman had a metric ton of perfume on and I really really thought I was going to barf. felt exactly like MS. No way I was preggo, it was just the post-ov prog boost.

[eme1ieh]

Anything is possible, but MUCH more likely is that you happen to conceive in months when ALL your hormone levels are higher, estrogen, etc. and some evidence indicates that this is the case. People's temperature fluctuations are often much more pronounced in months they go on to conceive (lower before ovulation due to lots of estrogen, and then higher after ovulation due to lots of progesterone, with a major temp dip at about 7 DPO due to secondary estrogen surge) and this is NOT because they have conceived - because you can't conceive till you've ovulated, LOL - but because when your body is making a lot of good hormones, you're in a better place to get pregnant!

Thanks atomic, great answer as always. :) I see what you mean. So estrogen lower your temperature? If that's the case i keep my finger crossed since my temperature before O was noticeably lower than usually this cycle. :) I'm taking Agnus castus, can agnus castus affect your estrogen levels? I thought AC lowers estrogen? I'm 5dpo today.

[atomic sagebrush]

Yes, estrogen lowers your temps. Progesterone raises them. I suggest you get a good book on the menstrual cycle like TCYOF because some of your questions and concerns, I feel are because of a lack of knowledge about how your cycle works. I think you know just enough so you are then susceptible to misleading things you read online and then you get worried about it.

WHY ARE YOU STILL TAKING VITEX AFTER OVULATION?? How long have you been taking Vitex for?? I hope not long!

Don't stop it now. I think it might shock your body too much. Let's wait to see if you get BFP or not before weaning off.

[eme1ieh]

Yes, estrogen lowers your temps. Progesterone raises them. I suggest you get a good book on the menstrual cycle like TCYOF because some of your questions and concerns, I feel are because of a lack of knowledge about how your cycle works. I think you know just enough so you are then susceptible to misleading things you read online and then you get worried about it.

WHY ARE YOU STILL TAKING VITEX AFTER OVULATION?? How long have you been taking Vitex for?? I hope not long!

Don't stop it now. I think it might shock your body too much. Let's wait to see if you get BFP or not before weaning off.

Thank you. I use fertility friend and can see some good patterns, before, during and after ovulation. I read a lot, i'm both curious, i want to learn and i want control (i guess it's both a good and a bad quality i have).

I started to take AC november last year, i had a break in december month and now i have taking it january and february month. But i only take it until ovulation, fourteen days in other words, then a break until next cycle.

[maidentomother]

200% agree with atomic that optimal hormone levels in certain cycles enable pregnancy rather than being caused by pregnancy.

Vitex noticeably affects my temps and I've seen it do so for most other women, too. For me personally, it makes my temps both before and after O higher (I took it all cycle long).

[eme1ieh]

Atomic, about implantation dip. If you had a implatation dip in earlier pregnancy, is it likely that you always is going to have these dips when you conceived? I hope you understand what i mean. I wonder if it can vary from pregnancy to pregnancy for one person.

[XXforhubby]

It can totally vary with the same person. Some cycles I have one and others I don't. In cycles with great hormone production it is usually seen. If you look at chart examples on fertility friend, you will see some women go on to get a BFP with or without it.


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[atomic sagebrush]

Thank you. I use fertility friend and can see some good patterns, before, during and after ovulation. I read a lot, i'm both curious, i want to learn and i want control (i guess it's both a good and a bad quality i have).

I started to take AC november last year, i had a break in december month and now i have taking it january and february month. But i only take it until ovulation, fourteen days in other words, then a break until next cycle.

But are you still taking it now? I think we are having a language issue.

[atomic sagebrush]

Atomic, about implantation dip. If you had a implatation dip in earlier pregnancy, is it likely that you always is going to have these dips when you conceived? I hope you understand what i mean. I wonder if it can vary from pregnancy to pregnancy for one person.

There's no such thing as an implantation dip. What people call an "implantation dip" is the temp dip from the secondary estrogen surge. It has nothing to do with implantation and the idea has been debunked.

Interestingly, they have studied this and have found that charts with a noticeable temp dip at aobut 7 DPO are slightly more likely to end up in pregnancy (I can't remember how much more, it's a small but statistically important % though). But it's not because implantation causes this temp dip, it is because, like we are just talking about, cycles where a person has a lot of hormones in their body seem to be affiliated with more successful conceptions. So the progesterone rise is higher, the estrogen dip is lower, and the two combine to make it really obvious that a big bunch of estrogen was released. Some women even have EWCM that day (I almost always do!)

Sorry, this is hard to explain in any language, please ask if something is less than clear.

[atomic sagebrush]

It can totally vary with the same person. Some cycles I have one and others I don't. In cycles with great hormone production it is usually seen. If you look at chart examples on fertility friend, you will see some women go on to get a BFP with or without it.


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:agree: and to answer the question - no, you do not always have a temp dip with future pregnancies. Charts and temping are very variable and can change a lot between pregnancies.

[eme1ieh]

But are you still taking it now? I think we are having a language issue.

Oh i'm sorry! Sometimes it's hard to explain in another language! However i'm a good explainer in swedish, haha. :)

I mean that i'm just taking vitex fourteen days in one month, (two weeks before ovulation and then i stop on my o-day). If i not getting a bfp i start again on my first af-day.
Now it's 6dpo and i'm NOT taking vitex. :)

[eme1ieh]

There's no such thing as an implantation dip. What people call an "implantation dip" is the temp dip from the secondary estrogen surge. It has nothing to do with implantation and the idea has been debunked.

Interestingly, they have studied this and have found that charts with a noticeable temp dip at aobut 7 DPO are slightly more likely to end up in pregnancy (I can't remember how much more, it's a small but statistically important % though). But it's not because implantation causes this temp dip, it is because, like we are just talking about, cycles where a person has a lot of hormones in their body seem to be affiliated with more successful conceptions. So the progesterone rise is higher, the estrogen dip is lower, and the two combine to make it really obvious that a big bunch of estrogen was released. Some women even have EWCM that day (I almost always do!)

Sorry, this is hard to explain in any language, please ask if something is less than clear.

I've read about this, secondary estrogen surge! It makes sense and i'm glad you confirm this. I will stop calling it implantation dip from now and just see it as a sign that my hormone levels are on top. :) But i hope it's possible for men to conceive anyway!

Thanks for your great explanation.

[atomic sagebrush]

:agree: Good luck!!!