Some thoughts on OCD

[trifecta]

First off, I have two boys and a history of OCD that was pretty bad when I was a child (counting, checking, rituals about touching things a certain number of times with each hand). It has gradually, and atypically, lessened on its own. Nowadays I don't have any of the symptoms we associate with OCD and haven't for many years, long before I had children.

A long time ago I used Wellbutrin (an anti-depressant also used to treat OCD) to quit smoking and was surprised that a few things I was doing that are not usually thought of as OCD behaviors also disappeared. One was making lists. Another was lots of rumination about grudges and career mistakes. Eventually Wellbutrin started giving me hives so I discontinued it but it opened my eyes to parts of my thinking and behavior that I hadn't attributed to OCD before.

I think it's possible that women with OCD might have more boys but could it also/instead be possible that obsessing over wanting a girl is a result of OCD, that if some of us didn't have OCD we might be more able to brush it off? I wonder also, if I had had a boy and a girl or even two girls, would my OCD have just found another focus?

We associate OCD mostly with counting, checking, rituals, fear of contamination, etc. but I think those of us who have it are probably prone to obsessive thinking in general.

Just some thoughts I'm throwing out there. I'd love to hear what other people think.

[Jany1025]

OMG! I could have written this myself!! I find that I have that obsessive thinking also and why I could not STOP until I had DD it just consumed me :( I don't know that it means more boys but exactly what you said we obsess and now that I have do have DD I do find myself thinking of other things but not as badly.

I didn't think I was that "neurotic" BUT in the past few months I have noticed the same in my boys. My DS#1 has become a germaphobe and obsesses over it, I know I love cleanliness and am always cleaning but didn't think I was a maniac about it?? And DS#2 is the same very rigid, everything has to be in its place no deviation, last night I caught him in the kitchen cleaning the walls with a sponge?? Am I projecting this? Is it learned behavior or genetic?? Actually have started to worry because now in public my DS#1 has some anxiety (someone has a cough or anything remotely contagious) he is in a panic :(

[LacePrincess]

I have OCD and GAD.

I think it's entirely possible that us OCD types fixate harder on the girl goal than those who don't have these sorts of tendencies. I tend to fixate on any goal/achievement in life, it's not just TTC a girl. Like career wise, hobbywise, etc. The interesting thing with me is I tend to rotate my fixations so it's not always the *same* thing all the time.

Another thing that proves this theory on this site anyways, is that I've always gotten the impression that there's a lot more activity on the TTC pink side than the blue! I could be totally wrong and I actually have no idea if there are more members here going for pink over blue, but it always seemed that the pink swayers post a lot more frequently.

I too have gotten better in my OCD with age. And pregnancies - they always seem to normalize my moods. I haven't needed to be on meds for years and I sure hope it stays that way. I too am worried about my kids developing OCD/anxiety issues, and I'm always on the lookout. My youngest son seems to be particularly sensitive to certain things (like sock seams and shoes) and I read those can be early symptoms so I'm on the lookout. :(

[trifecta]

Another thing that proves this theory on this site anyways, is that I've always gotten the impression that there's a lot more activity on the TTC pink side than the blue! I could be totally wrong and I actually have no idea if there are more members here going for pink over blue, but it always seemed that the pink swayers post a lot more frequently.


If I hadn't had a boy I would have wanted one but I don't know if I would have obsessed about it like I do. For me it really feels like I somehow wasn't worthy enough/feminine enough/attractive enough to produce a girl. I think my mind is geared to obsess and for me this was just something that got to the heart of my feelings of inadequacy. It was a sticky topic for me and I got stuck on it.

This is an awful thing to admit and remember but I also had two obsessive love experiences during my life, one as a teenager and one in my early twenties. In both cases they were emotionally abusive relationships (the second one was also physically abusive) that I was very hung up on fixing. I felt like I had to get the other person to fix the damage they had done to my self-esteem and it took a lot for me to move on. I think things that deal with my feelings of inadequacy are what I get stuck on, things that awaken deeply personal feelings.

I fully believe in the sincere, equal suffering and desire of women who want sons but maybe a smaller number of women feel like not having a son really cuts to the heart of their identity.

I'm glad your OCD has also gotten better over time. From what I've read most people get worse as they age so I'm grateful to have gotten better in so many ways and to have had the opportunity to recognize how it was still affecting me. My grandmother had OCD, too, so I am wary of there being a genetic link.

[LacePrincess]

I fully believe in the sincere, equal suffering and desire of women who want sons but maybe a smaller number of women feel like not having a son really cuts to the heart of their identity.

I'm glad your OCD has also gotten better over time. From what I've read most people get worse as they age so I'm grateful to have gotten better in so many ways and to have had the opportunity to recognize how it was still affecting me. My grandmother had OCD, too, so I am wary of there being a genetic link.

Ohhh....I don't think this is true. Depends on your cultural background. I'm Chinese, and believe me, the Chinese are boy-obsessed. It's ALL about having at least one son. Which is a common theme in many Asian countries. I just think that the natural pink friendly moms are more fatalistic about things and feel less in control, and thus the obsession doesn't factor in as much. When you don't feel like you can micromanage and control things then you don't tend to obsess/fixate as much. I believe many girl-moms yearn for boys as badly as we yearn for girls, they just may tend to feel like they have less ability to change fate.

I hear you on ruminating though, especially 'getting stuck'. I've been there many times! I hope things are better nowadays. I don't know if it's age, or time, or the LE diet, or heck the Metformin, but honestly my GD has really lessened.....I think that my boys getting older and all being so different has helped. And being able to see myself in them in different ways has also helped. I think trying the HT route, even though it didn't work out, at least put that 'what if' to rest, yk? At least I know I tried and didn't always wonder.

So not really sure why my OCD is really not so bad now, but I'm grateful! I'm always wary of it coming back though, I do get ebbs and tides of it and probably always will.

[trifecta]

I hear you on ruminating though, especially 'getting stuck'. I've been there many times! I hope things are better nowadays.
On the whole everything is much better. I've been in a healthy marriage for twelve years. I do still ruminate about different things including GD but if it's not productive I self-censor (that sounds awful but it's very helpful for getting out of the "loop" of rumination) or use self-talk to get around it. I see a psychologist every few weeks, btw.

[maidentomother]

Unfortunately OCD has a strong genetic component but like most things environment matters too. If you're genetically predisposed and grow up with a parent with an anxiety disorder it does put you at higher risk. I think the important thing is to keep an eye out, acknowledge and treat as necessary if you see symptoms in your kids. My parents 'didn't believe' in mental disorders, they thought my OCD was 'just a phase' despite the fact it was severe when it first manifested and definitely inhibited my daily functioning. Which was the worst response they could have had. I didn't get diagnosed until I was 19.

OCD isn't all bad IMO and it's very treatable, we just need to be open about it.

I do think boy moms having OCD tendencies is part of why there is so much more pink sway activity (vs blue, which there really is), but I think also women are more likely to be okay with just girls than just boys. And I also think there are more moms of just boys than just girls.

[LacePrincess]

trifecta - You sound like you're doing great!! I mentally sometimes have to 'slap' myself out of a negative thought pattern too, because from experience I know when I'm thinking in ways that will spiral into bigger problems. I've learnt to tell myself to 'shut the hell up' in my OCD brain, LOL. Whatever works!


maiden - in a lot of ways in North America, yeah I agree that girl moms are more likely to be ok without boys than boy moms without girls. Where I am there is definitely a bias favouring girls. :( If it were in Asia it would be the other way around for sure! So sometimes I think it's a pity I don't live in the land of my ancestors....if I did I'd have the perfect family and be the envy of society, instead of having to hear all the crappy 'oh I don't know how you handle 3 boys' type comments.

[atomic sagebrush]

I understand what you're asking here - kind of a chicken/egg type of thing really. But it is definitely something that I see again and again both in myself and others who have all boys, that does not seem to be true for the general population.

BUT I can say for me personally, I have always been super anxious, I don't have OCD type symptoms (but I do tend to like to have "complete sets" of things like dishes I never use and spices that no one even likes LOL. I have always had a very very high level of social anxiety and as you said, LOTS of ruminations over things that happened and I could think back on things that happened when I was like 10 years old and feel a level of humiliation as if it just happened. I also tended to plan and worry obsessively about scenarios that were highly unlikely, I didn't feel comfortable without a plan for any scenaro no matter how ridiculous. People thought it was very odd, it was severe enough to be harmful to my life and my parents and husband have always acted like I was nuts so it would appear to be something that does appear to the outside world to be "different" about me.

I didn't have any gender preference at all until well after my second so for me, the GD really didn't play a part in what was a pretty much life-ruining level of anxiety all thru my 20's. It did get gradually better over time in my 30's and it was mainly from having more and more experiences where things happened and it wasn't ever as bad as I envisioned it. I did still have social anxieyt and the tendencies especially to ruminate over things to an obsessive degree and plan a lot and got my 3rd and 4th boy in that state of affairs.

When I got my daughter, I really really did feel differently than at any point in my life, ever. I have outlined some of this in this thread http://genderdreaming.com/forum/gender-confirmed-girl-sway-results/9388-atomics-stealth-sway-updated-july-20-a.html and while I do think diet played some part in this, I really think that in no small part it was a fatalistic mindset that I have never experienced before. I had finally learned that what I did, all that plotting and planning and worrying and trying and half-killing myself with effort every day, made no difference at all. I coudln't stop my father in law from getting sick. I couldn't stop my husband from doing the stuff he was doing. I couldn't change the fact that I had 4 boys. I couldn't change decisions I had made decades ago that brought me to where I was. It wasn't the diet or tiredness that made me understand those truths, it was life experience and it was like an epiphany. I've had a crappy diet and been tired before and gotten boys that way. It was only once I was forced to let go of that "Martha" BS and realize that I HAD TO start turning things over (including the blame for other people's bad behavior) to other people and even a higher power that I really felt like something had changed inside of me and that, I think, is among the main reasons I got a girl when I did.

So, long story short, while I do see what you're saying that maybe it is a bit chicken/egg-y, for me, I was an "unusual" person before and got 4 boys with everyone saying how strange and unlikable I was, and then only once I had the epiphany and my behavior changed, most importantly the inner dialogue where I'd plan and scheme and decide how hard I woudl try the next time and how I'd fix everything and make it all perfect, and then everyone would love me and do what I wanted them to do LOL that I have ever been really able to let go. It's been really freeing. I am not sure it's something that I can really explain to those who haven't been through it, but I know some others out there have! :)

[atomic sagebrush]

Unfortunately OCD has a strong genetic component but like most things environment matters too. If you're generically predisposed and grow up with a parent with an anxiety disorder it does put you at higher risk. I think the important thing is to keep an eye out, acknowledge and treat as necessary if you see symptoms in your kids. My parents 'didn't believe' in mental disorders, they thought my OCD was 'just a phase' despite the fact it was severe when it first manifested and definitely inhibited my daily functioning. Which was the worst response they could have had. I didn't get diagnosed until I was 19.

OCD isn't all bad IMO and it's very treatable, we just need to be open about it.

I do think boy moms having OCD tendencies is part of why there is so much more pink sway activity (vs blue, which there really is), but I think also women are more likely to be okay with just girls than just boys. And I also think there are more moms of just boys than just girls.

You can see this in the ways people try to explain their GD - it's either "I have had everything just the way I like it in my life and so that's why I think I have GD, this is the only thing I haven't been able to accomplish" or else "Nothing has gone right and I need this one thing to fix things" When really it is very likely that gender desire, esp. for a same sex child is probably innate for some of us and there's no deeper psychology to it than that.

[atomic sagebrush]

I wonder if most/all "mental health disorders" are really more like extremes of a continuum...it seems to me like there is very little difference between my socially anxious self talk of "If I do everything perfectly and always have fresh tarragon on hand, then everyone will like me" and thinking "If I count to 73 that will keep germs away". They're both totally magical thinking, just a little different flavor. :)

[maidentomother]

Good point Lace. I can tell you (and it's pretty obvious looking at Europeans swaying or going HT), that in Europe there's a girl preference, too. Australia, as well. So basically Westernized cultures, though I'm not sure about Mexico/CA/SA. It's strange to me that it's so different in many ME/Asian countries! Although I think it's changing in some places. Certainly when there aren't enough girls to go around in China/India for the excess of boys who grow up, there will be some sort of reckoning. That won't be pretty.

[LacePrincess]

I wonder if most/all "mental health disorders" are really more like extremes of a continuum...it seems to me like there is very little difference between my socially anxious self talk of "If I do everything perfectly and always have fresh tarragon on hand, then everyone will like me" and thinking "If I count to 73 that will keep germs away". They're both totally magical thinking, just a little different flavor. :)

Well for sure. I mean with mental/mood disorders almost all behaviours can be just personality quirks - until it crosses the line where it's so extreme it interferes with being able to live a normal life. So individual behaviours aren't always an issue until they cross a line where it becomes dysfunctional.

[LacePrincess]

Good point Lace. I can tell you (and it's pretty obvious looking at Europeans swaying or going HT), that in Europe there's a girl preference, too. Australia, as well. So basically Westernized cultures, though I'm not sure about Mexico/CA/SA. It's strange to me that it's so different in many ME/Asian countries! Although I think it's changing in some places. Certainly when there aren't enough girls to go around in China/India for the excess of boys who grow up, there will be some sort of reckoning. That won't be pretty.

Oh there already is fallout! In China anyways, the current boy/girl ratio is something like 140/100, so the issue of men not being able to find enough women is already a big problem. This is a result from not only traditional gender preference but combined with the one-child-policy, on top of the ability to selectively abort due to gender. So yeah the fallout is already happening now and it'll only get worse in the next few decades.

The grand irony of course being how xenophobic Chinese adoption policies are, because some of us would dearly love to adopt baby girls, especially since I'm ethnically Chinese it would be a great solution for me. But it is extremely difficult to adopt internationally now. Sigh.

[maidentomother]

They make adoption so stupidly hard. :( Speaking of adoption, it shows the Western cultural bias for girls most strongly; the vast majority of those adopting prefer girls. The recent IVF studies demonstrate a girl bias too. It's clearly there.

I had no idea the male excess was an issue in China already (I don't watch the news)...and now I'm scared to find out more, eeek.

I've always thought all mental illness is on a spectrum so many people have some degree of tendency without being full blown dysfunctional. What's so interesting is that every type of mental illness, in moderation, can or did provide an evolutionary benefit.

[LacePrincess]

They make adoption so stupidly hard. :( Speaking of adoption, it shows the Western cultural bias for girls most strongly; the vast majority of those adopting prefer girls. The recent IVF studies demonstrate a girl bias too. It's clearly there.

I had no idea the male excess was an issue in China already (I don't watch the news)...and now I'm scared to find out more, eeek.

I've always thought all mental illness is on a spectrum so many people have some degree of tendency without being full blown dysfunctional. What's so interesting is that every type of mental illness, in moderation, can or did provide an evolutionary benefit.

It's so true - adoption is PAINFULLY hard. And expensive!!

I just watched a documentary on Netflix last night called "It's a girl" which is about gendercide in India and China. About how girls are just not 'good enough'. I often feel like we have that discrimination in reverse in North America, though of course not thankfully to the degree of infanticide or selective abortion. But still, we are so gender biased against boys it really drives me insane. :( Things like this article don't make it any easier AT ALL:

The Economist explains: Why girls do better at school than boys | The Economist (http://www.economist.com/blogs/economist-explains/2015/03/economist-explains-3)

Articles like this one just PISS ME OFF and is full of soooo many unfair gender stereotypes against boys I just want to rage and scream. I feel like in North America us boy moms are constantly fighting the fight against this ridiculous notion that all boys are hyper creatures who have no attention spans or book smart intellects and aren't good for anything but rough and tumble sports and videogames. It just makes me SO ANGRY!

[1+2+3boys]

Very interesting thread that I can certainly relate to in more ways than one. All I have to say for now is ADHD, that's me :D (without the H but that is what they call it now)

Oh and Atomic I can sort of understand your comment about you changing and then getting your girl. I really think a pink sway could have been succesful for me but that chance has passed for now and I'm a bit more back to my old ways. I'm just too scared to try yet as it will be my last. Luckily I have time on my side.

[Pbn3]

Hi sorry to crash your thread but this bought back many memories from my teens and twenties. My (what ex's/friends described as) ocd tendecies was more a balance thing. Example.. if I stretched a finger on one hand I'd have e to stretch the opposite hands finger, if I touched cracked pavement with one foot would have to touch next crack in same place with other foot etc etc it was weird but whatever happened to one side of my body I felt like it had to happen to the other side lol. Happy to say these days I rarely notice it but on the odd day I find myself doing it. That and everything and I mean everything had to be straight and lined up on my work desk. Work colleagues used to comment on it and for fun push something out of place!!

[maidentomother]

I couldn't read the whole article but I've always hated public education amd felt it ill suited for most boys. One of many reasons I plan to home school until high school age. Especially if I have boys.

I hate that we have such a narrow view of 'success' in modern society. Life shouldn't be about getting perfect test scores/certain status jobs, etc.

[mommymachine]

I couldn't read the whole article but I've always hated public education amd felt it ill suited for most boys. One of many reasons I plan to home school until high school age. Especially if I have boys.

I hate that we have such a narrow view of 'success' in modern society. Life shouldn't be about getting perfect test scores/certain status jobs, etc.

I homeschool and that is one of the (many, many!!) reasons why we decided it is best for our family.

[Pebbles&BamBam]

It's so true - adoption is PAINFULLY hard. And expensive!!

I just watched a documentary on Netflix last night called "It's a girl" which is about gendercide in India and China. About how girls are just not 'good enough'. I often feel like we have that discrimination in reverse in North America, though of course not thankfully to the degree of infanticide or selective abortion. But still, we are so gender biased against boys it really drives me insane. :( Things like this article don't make it any easier AT ALL:

The Economist explains: Why girls do better at school than boys | The Economist (http://www.economist.com/blogs/economist-explains/2015/03/economist-explains-3)

Articles like this one just PISS ME OFF and is full of soooo many unfair gender stereotypes against boys I just want to rage and scream. I feel like in North America us boy moms are constantly fighting the fight against this ridiculous notion that all boys are hyper creatures who have no attention spans or book smart intellects and aren't good for anything but rough and tumble sports and videogames. It just makes me SO ANGRY!

I feel like this might depend on the area of North America you live in, the preference for boys vs girls. I live in the Northern US, primarily farming outside of the few major cities and boys are very much preferred. I don't think you can generalize the entire continent? And food for thought, if you had only girls, maybe you would have a different perspective...i.e. North Americans prefer boys? I had GD after having one girl in the US, and I don't feel like I'm the only one who was hit with negative comments regarding girls...it definitely might depend on the region, but please don't assume the preference for girls exists everywhere in NA. I am now pregnant with a boy, and have yet to encounter one negative comment regarding having a boy, and I feel as though I am very aware of any gender related comments.

[atomic sagebrush]

I think there's a strong preference for "pigeon pairs" in a lot of N. Am and it makes it feel like those of us who have only one or the other feels like a conspiracy or something. I also live in a farming area in the North and I felt like everyone was in my face about having a girl, but I def. know of others who had all girls who were also getting comments about it at the same time.

I do think there's a strong pref. for just girls or only girls amongst a certain and possibly more vociferous group of people, though.

I keep coming back in my mind to how much of this has to do with marketing...while I do think that gender desire is innate, there is just such a push to buy the "girl stuff" and the "boy stuff" and how it's like you're missing out if you don't get to do both, yk?

[LacePrincess]

I feel like this might depend on the area of North America you live in, the preference for boys vs girls. I live in the Northern US, primarily farming outside of the few major cities and boys are very much preferred. I don't think you can generalize the entire continent? And food for thought, if you had only girls, maybe you would have a different perspective...i.e. North Americans prefer boys? I had GD after having one girl in the US, and I don't feel like I'm the only one who was hit with negative comments regarding girls...it definitely might depend on the region, but please don't assume the preference for girls exists everywhere in NA. I am now pregnant with a boy, and have yet to encounter one negative comment regarding having a boy, and I feel as though I am very aware of any gender related comments.

Well fair enough. :) I apologize for generalizing.

For sure in the regions I grew up in there is a strong preference for girls. It's rather hard to not notice, especially when shopping and finding nothing but girl clothes and accessories and a token single shelf of boy things.

I also got an awful lot of snide anti-boy comments even with my very first son. :(

Atomic - I agree that pigeon pairs are the 'golden' family makeup. However it sure seems that two girls are better accepted than two boys, at least where I live.

[Pebbles&BamBam]

I do agree with the PP, I had a strong desire for a DS first and then a DD, and have no clue what my experience would have been had I had 2 DS or 2DD, but I do know all gender comments regarding each of my children has dramatically decreased. People just don't have much to say, nor can they really, so after suffering from very bad GD, it's nice to have some relief. Although I do crave for another family member to have a DD as their first, all of my extended family has either all boys or a few boys then a girl, and I feel quite alone and wish to share the experience of someone else in my close circle having a girl first

[Pebbles&BamBam]

Sorry you got snide anti boy comments with your first! Regardless of gender, I think its so hard to get slammed with gender comments, especially with your first. I mean doesn't a woman have enough going nk during her first pregnancy to no have fend off gender comments? Although never acceptable, at least in later pregnancies you know how much you will love your child and how much they add to your life!

[maidentomother]

I would not be surprised if boys are more preferred/less snubbed in more rural communities. I think the girl preference is generally urban. Quite possibly there are class issues too but not sure I should go there!

[trifecta]

I keep coming back in my mind to how much of this has to do with marketing...while I do think that gender desire is innate, there is just such a push to buy the "girl stuff" and the "boy stuff" and how it's like you're missing out if you don't get to do both, yk?

I think advertising is absolutely one of the biggest sources of this. I think pigeon pairs are over-represented in advertising because it is a sort of generic model for a family and it shows a product is good for everyone. I understand why advertisers do it but when nearly every image of a family you see has two opposite sex parents, a boy, and a girl it has an effect on how people view families that don't fit this model.

[gizmo77]

I come from a family of ocd. I'm not diagnosed but I acknowledge some of my tendencies. Then I hear my kids saying "weird" things and asking me why I do certain things. So far it hasn't interfered with my life but occasionally there will be tiny things like leaving the house late bc I want to empty my bladder. I can't use public restrooms. I do bc I'm forcing and talking myself into it and mostly to show my kids it's normal.
But I have 3 girls? When I 1st came on this site ready to sway, I was like " but I DO eat like that (or want to eat like that) or I AM like that...rigid, etc."

I think that's why it didn't work for me bc I didn't really change myself dramatically. It was more k allowed myself to be what I always wanted. But I always held back bc of gaining weight and not being liked.

I also wonder why there are so many posters on here who desire girls. I was in fact shocked at 1st. Doesn't everyone want a boy???

But I have resolved to eventually give up (tho i don't know if I truly can deep down) only bc I know I can't keep going HT forever. We don't have that money and I would feel just awful "damaging" our family based on my selfish desires. And I see my girls' faces and I woukdnt bear to look into them had I putpisrlh put us in debt at their cost of enjoyment. But the I think, I'll just go back to work and that will be HT money. So I don't knowif it will ever end?

[1+2+3boys]

My boys are all going to go to a Montesorri school so hoping that will do wonders for them. I salut parents who home school. I can't wait to get 'my break' lol.
I think ADD people can have some OCD tendancies like I do, even some aspegers. Maybe it has something to do with my GD but I have never thought about it before. Maybe I am procrastinating on other important things in life I should be doing by thinking I first need a girl to be complete. Who knows, could be. Us ADDers sure love to dream though and I dreamed from a young age what my family make-up would be like and it included both genders (with more boys). That's what I grew up in being the eldest of a GGB family and the media does not help. That is what I experienced and saw family as and so it has to be for me to feel complete I think.

THere is the Mum, the Dad then the boys AND girls. I always felt sorry for families of three or more of all one gender. IMO back then people with two hadn't tried enough so didn't think bad of them. And now that is me lol and I don't feel sorry for myself at all because I got the best boys in the world. I was ignorant. I am still pretty pissed off though that I did not get to "Have it all" I'm so stubborn.

I always liked balance though too to a certain degree. I would have to have 2 boys and a girl or three boys and two girls but I didn't want that many so thought I would have to just have three. Now I am happy to compromise. Just one daughter please is all I wish for.

Oh and I used to not be able to put two different coloured pegs on an item on the washing line and I couldn't drink water without counting. I had to have 7 or 10 gulps at once. I don't have time for any of that now though so dropped the washing thing but sometimes still do the water thing

[1+2+3boys]

Also I have always been highly more attracted to odd numbers. I always loved to be different :D

[atomic sagebrush]

Also I have always been highly more attracted to odd numbers. I always loved to be different :D

haha me too. I love odd numbers. :think: drawing no conclusions there, just that I"ve never spoken to anyone else who likes odd numbers. :)

[hopper]

Well fair enough. :) I apologize for generalizing.

For sure in the regions I grew up in there is a strong preference for girls. It's rather hard to not notice, especially when shopping and finding nothing but girl clothes and accessories and a token single shelf of boy things.

I also got an awful lot of snide anti-boy comments even with my very first son. :(

Atomic - I agree that pigeon pairs are the 'golden' family makeup. However it sure seems that two girls are better accepted than two boys, at least where I live.

I too got those remarks on my first son. It HURT!! And sadly still does sometimes when I remember hearing them. I was in hospital, my son was feeding and was a bare 8 hours or so old. My pregnant sister in law came in, took one look and with a look of pity says "Oh no, you must be so disappointed! If i were you I would be trying to swap him for a girl." I got such a shock, yes I suffered slightly with GD after my first but just cause i was sure I was having a girl and then I mourned the loss of the girl I was full sure I was having. Would I give my boy back in exchange for the desired female child - not a hope in hell!! My sister in law went on to give birth to, yup you got it, a daughter 4 months later. Of course i cried that day but only because someone who can be so narrow minded, cruel and callous can so easily get their DG without even trying. Shes had two girls both of which were drunken accidents and then smoked and drank the first 20 weeks of both pregnancies!

As for beimg OCD I find I can be a little. When I get something in my head it takes hold of me until I have completed it. I am on anti anxiety meds for post partum anxiety and find the OCD is significantly less these days. I often wish I could be less OCD and more laid back about stuff. When it comes to TTC DH often jokes its a military operation!!!

[XXforhubby]

Also I have always been highly more attracted to odd numbers. I always loved to be different :D

Me too! I have always wanted 3 kids!! It seems everyone likes even numbers, and I too like to be different!!


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[mommymachine]

Me too! I have always wanted 3 kids!! It seems everyone likes even numbers, and I too like to be different!!


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Ha! That is the driving force behind me wanting to try for another baby. 5 is so....uneven! Watch me have twins next...

[The Anchor]

haha me too. I love odd numbers. :think: drawing no conclusions there, just that I"ve never spoken to anyone else who likes odd numbers. :)

OMG. This is me too. Every lottery ticket...all odd numbers. When I spell out long words in my head, I especially appreciate when the number of letters is a multiple of 3. I've never told anyone that!!!

[gizmo77]

Even numbers for me. Need 4 kids. But also bc I feel like everyone has 3 and that's too common for me.

[maidentomother]

1+2+3, all my life I've been very drawn to ADD people. About halfof my closest friends are ADD. Props on sending your boys to a Montessori school! If/when I can't homeschool that's my first choice.

I very much like and enjoy being different, but I'm obsessed with symmetrh and even numbers in general. However, I'd be okay with 3 kids. At least 2, possibly 4. Definitely not 5. Maaaybe 6. Six was my dream when I still thought I had a chance of having kids young.

[BrightSky]

Hopper I can't believe your sister-in-law said that to you! You would think that no one had ever given birth to a boy before, you don't need ppl like that around!
Interesting thread, I do think advertising has a lot to answer for. I notice the most common family make up depicted is an older daughter and younger son. I see it in tv ads, shows.. even my sons story books! Very rarely do they show single gender families, I can only think of one car ad in Australia, were the family goes off camping. And an ad for baked beans.

[hopper]

Hopper I can't believe your sister-in-law said that to you! You would think that no one had ever given birth to a boy before, you don't need ppl like that around!
Interesting thread, I do think advertising has a lot to answer for. I notice the most common family make up depicted is an older daughter and younger son. I see it in tv ads, shows.. even my sons story books! Very rarely do they show single gender families, I can only think of one car ad in Australia, were the family goes off camping. And an ad for baked beans.

I could barely believe it myself! I had never seen or heard anyone so anti-boy before, it shocked me!!

I can't think of a single advert here in Ireland with a single gender family. What I found irritating this past year or so is the lack of Frozen merchandise aimed toward boys! My eldest LOVES Frozen, who's kids don't! And the handful of boy stuff that was around would be snapped up straight away with little hope of getting anything ourselves. First world problems for sure lol but still, it just annoyed me. Its just one of those things where companies cater purely towards girls and then have a token amount of boy stuff just to cover themselves.

[Pebbles&BamBam]

I could barely believe it myself! I had never seen or heard anyone so anti-boy before, it shocked me!!

I can't think of a single advert here in Ireland with a single gender family. What I found irritating this past year or so is the lack of Frozen merchandise aimed toward boys! My eldest LOVES Frozen, who's kids don't! And the handful of boy stuff that was around would be snapped up straight away with little hope of getting anything ourselves. First world problems for sure lol but still, it just annoyed me. Its just one of those things where companies cater purely towards girls and then have a token amount of boy stuff just to cover themselves.

My SIL finds out tomorrow what she is having! She is anti-girl (I had a girl first) I feel she will have a boy and that's all she 'll talk about! I thought I wanted to get it over and just know, but since the day is tomorrow, I am dreading the lifetime of comments that she will have regarding girls!

That is too bad on the Frozen merchandise! My kiddos are still too young for me to realize things like that, but I could see how that would be frustrating. I do have a close friend who has triplet boys and the LOVE princesses, they are 5 and she just let's them roll with it, they even own princess dresses. It is literally the coolest thing, because she doesn't limit her boys to male only toys, and I think its super cool she let's them be them and doesn't put limitations, which I think is sometimes harder for boys.

[hopper]

My SIL finds out tomorrow what she is having! She is anti-girl (I had a girl first) I feel she will have a boy and that's all she 'll talk about! I thought I wanted to get it over and just know, but since the day is tomorrow, I am dreading the lifetime of comments that she will have regarding girls!

That is too bad on the Frozen merchandise! My kiddos are still too young for me to realize things like that, but I could see how that would be frustrating. I do have a close friend who has triplet boys and the LOVE princesses, they are 5 and she just let's them roll with it, they even own princess dresses. It is literally the coolest thing, because she doesn't limit her boys to male only toys, and I think its super cool she let's them be them and doesn't put limitations, which I think is sometimes harder for boys.

I don't understand how people can be so against a particular gender! the mind boggles!!!! Our in laws sound very similar!! I just learnt to have selective hearing when shes within earshot ;)

I LOVE your friend!!! I don't buy only boy toys for my guys, my eldest has Sofia the First and Frozen characters and they are his most used toys by a mile! He has an imaginext lions den castle and has the little princess figures "fighting" over who owns the castle lol. Cuteness!! I mainly meant the lack of Frozen clothes for boys, they could have released t=shirts with Anna and Elsa on them in more boyish colours. Everything is pink and although I have no issue buying girl toys for my little guys I do draw the line at super girly clothes. That being said my eldest has been known to tie a blanket around his waist and prance around singing "I'm so pwretty!" lol, hes totally my Disney baby! His must do on our next trip is to meet Belle! :)

[atomic sagebrush]

My boys also love Sofia, Tangled, and Frozen. All of my boys except one went through a period of absolute OBSESSION with Snow White and my 3rd and 4th, I actually found a Snow White + Dwarves shirt and they wore it all the time (even though it was girly, they didn't know)

[1+2+3boys]

We buy 'girls toys' too. My DS1 who is 5 on Monday is so blissfully unaware of any gendered rolls. He wont be starting school until term 1 next year but I worry about other kids 'spoiling' my lovely boy. If he is anything like me though he wont care, FX.

That is interesting to hear Maiden to Mother, I also have a few friends with 'things'. I have always found it easy to relate to other people and be non-judgementel and I guess I find them interesting and am drawn to them.

I just pray so hard that none of my boys will have ADHD. My Birth Mum has it and so does her middle son my half Brother and he exhausts her and his siblings suffer quite a bit from how exasperating he is. DS1 I think is definitely in the clear and Maybe the twins but almost three is too young to tell for sure. My gut for now says no. I bet it will be my girl if I get her but at least I will know how to help her earlier instead of her struggling through life like I had to for so long without answers and with so much judgement.

I have been meaning to take a Month off the net as it is my main form of distraction. So TTFN ;)

[BrightSky]

Some of my favourite toys growing up were my brothers he-man figures and Lego!

[atomic sagebrush]

Me too. I had ONE set of Legos and I played the heck out of it.

[hopper]

Me too. I had ONE set of Legos and I played the heck out of it.

I think I get better fun out of my son's Legos than he does lol! Takes me back to when I used to "borrow" my older male cousins cooler Lego. My mother would find bits of it stashed in my pocket after coming home from his house lol. She insisted on buying Barbies for me and my younger sister but I had zero interest!!

[atomic sagebrush]

:agree: my husband and I were just talking about how few toys we had compared to our kids!! We had like a fraction of them and yet seemed to play with them more. My kids ignore their toys and jump on my couch all day. :/

[gizmo77]

From day one I tried to be non gender specific esply with toys. If there were no neutral clothes I'd end up buying a pair of boys shoes or pants (also bc I hoped I'd eventually have a boy.. And I could pass it down). All their initial pink clothes were from relatives. Then the 1st one started school and all my hard work went down the drain. :-(

[atomic sagebrush]

^^^ This is unfortunately very true. Even the commercials on TV just send the message loud and clear. We don't have TV right now (kids watch videos and stuff but no TV shows) and then I went to my MIL's house and I nearly died watching the commercials and how bad they were. I had totally forgotten, I guess.

[maidentomother]

I'm hoping by not having TV, any toys other than books and by homeschooling likely until high school that I can avoid a lot of these external factors including traditional gender roles. Doable? Any tips?

[Dana-Alicia]

I think that is very doable maiden! My sons also play with whatever they want, my eldest prefers typical boy stuff like dinosaurs and videogames but my youngest was thrilled with his new kitchen last christmass and he got a babydoll, prem and dollchair for his second birthday. He still loves it to bits <3 It broke my heart when my oldest son asked me to polish his nails and the kids at the playground laughed at him when he proudly showed them. He never wanted to wear it again :( It was so cruel, as that sweet innocence was gone because some kids don't get raised properly and get taught some things are for boy or girls specifically. I wanted to buy my youngest son a a cleaning set as he loves to help around the house. But they are all in pink or covered in princesses. I managed to find him a red one and he uses it a lot. Just wished it really works lol!

Pebbles&bambam, what is your sil having? Can't believe she would trash a gender like that. People like that really don't understand what a blessing it is to have a child, no matter the gender! I hope she has a girl, not to upset her, but just so she can experience how awesome a daughter would be.

[1+2+3boys]

Just adding in as I forgot to mention how I think ADD can be like OCD and if it has boy sway tendancies. The front part of the brain that controls organisation, short term memory, ability to concentrate and have self control and sense of time of doing tasks has a great lack of dopamine so I really struggle with all these things on a day to day basis and have my whole life. So to be 'normal' I have to over compensate and have to try really hard to be really in control and am constantly thinking about how to be in control/organised. I have to do all kinds of crazy things to remember stuff and and stay focused on tasks and if I am not OCD about it then I fail and fall back to being super unorganised and struggling through life and riding through with alot of luck and maybe even a gaurdian angel! My kids must have one too as they never seem to escape when I forget to lock the gate etc. ;)

We also are quite GN with our toys but also have stereotypical boys and girls toys in the house. If we get our girl I doubt much of our houses contents and surroundings will change.
I think if you teach your kids to be true to who they are and stand tall and not care what others think then it can help with the whole being able to do things that only 'boys or girls' are allowed to do. It is still hard for kids to do though I know but they will get it eventually. Teaching them phrases that are smarter than what other kids can understand can help. (well it did for me) I was one of those kids and am now one of those adults :)

It is crazy how far we have come for women's rights and how being a man or woman does not effect what you can do in life but kids toys and activities are still so limiting!


ANd I can not believe someone would diss a beautiful newborn -in front of their Mum about ANYTHING let alone 'what it is'

[maidentomother]

Modern marketing is just insane...especially when it comes to kid targeted products.

1+2+3, I so agree about having the right attitude and teaching that to your children so they learn to be proud of their differences and confident in them. Being able to express that verbally and eloquently is icing on the cake! I was mercilessly treated by my peers up until high school so I am very familiar with bullying etc. I do credit it with making me who I am (strong, confident, don't worry what others think) but I wouldn't wish my miserable, lonely childhood on anyone. I just hope I'm able to convey/teach what I learned to my children without them experiencing such extreme adversity.

[hopper]

Ladies just had to add something after all the GN chatter from last week. My oldest DS saw me painting my nails on Sunday, usually he will come and sit by me and maybe pick a colour for me to use. He's a super helper ;) But on Sunday he asked if he could paint my nails. And once he had painted them, and most of my fingers, a lovely coral shade he chose himself he then picked a lovely bright pink for his own nails lol. He was as proud as punch of his pink fingernails though he did ask me to take it off later that evening. His delight was just too sweet, I sincerely wish our kids could retain that wonderful innocence for longer. It's a pity some parents don't view it as the precious gift it is!

[atomic sagebrush]

I'm hoping by not having TV, any toys other than books and by homeschooling likely until high school that I can avoid a lot of these external factors including traditional gender roles. Doable? Any tips?

It is, but don't take it TOO seriously - my boys were homeschooled, only watched PBS (no commercials) and we gave them a Barbie to play with and she ended up naked on the ground with her head ripped off inside of 5 minutes LOL (and not viciously, but it happened!)

Gender stereotypes are sucky to be sure but at the same time there is at least a LITTLE something of reality there, at least in terms of my kids. I think you can avoid the pitfalls without being too worried about whatever tiny % may be innate.

[atomic sagebrush]

Modern marketing is just insane...especially when it comes to kid targeted products.

1+2+3, I so agree about having the right attitude and teaching that to your children so they learn to be proud of their differences and confident in them. Being able to express that verbally and eloquently is icing on the cake! I was mercilessly treated by my peers up until high school so I am very familiar with bullying etc. I do credit it with making me who I am (strong, confident, don't worry what others think) but I wouldn't wish my miserable, lonely childhood on anyone. I just hope I'm able to convey/teach what I learned to my children without them experiencing such extreme adversity.

:agree: totally and I even felt like it is psychologically harmful to be a bully as well - I was also teased a lot too and I didn't want my kids to be either teasors or teasees. I don't mean to knock public school because many kids/families do well there, just that in my experience it was a little "lord of the flies-ish" and seemed to create the bully-victim stuff even in kids that might have been the best of friends otherwise. :/