What I would do differently

[pink_bean]

Sorry if this is long. So, only have the two boys, I'm not pregnant and according to my husband we are done. But i still hold out hope that maybe in a few years we can have another and maybe this time do a proper sway with a personalized plan. But I know I can only have another child if I am 100% ok with another boy. So, I've been trying to sort out my feelings in the meantime.

It seems like I had (and oddly still have) the worst GD with my first son. Don't get me wrong, I love him to death and he is a beautiful and brilliant child. I'm lucky to have him and I know that but as you all know GD is a complicated issue. The issue that is all mine and has nothing to do with my son.
But since the 20 week mark of pregnancy with him I have just felt disappointment, dread and a whole host of other negative emotions about motherhood. I waited until I was older to have kids and by the time I got pregnant with him, I couldn't believe it was actually happening to me and I was so paranoid about something happening and it being taken away from me. When i was 16 I lost a baby at 12 weeks. Everyone around me was pressuring me to terminate and I feel like the stress caused the miscarriage. I know I was too young to handle a child at that time but I mourned the loss of that baby for a long, long time. In that pregnancy I felt immediate and all consuming love for the baby my gut told me was a girl. I never felt that way again with either of my children during pregnancy.

So, I guess I thats why I was overly cautious with my son. I was disappointed when I found out he was a boy. Even though I knew he was. And oddly I probably would have also been disappointed if they said girl because I thought boy for 5 months. But I started to get excited again when I imagined what he would be like, a mini version of my husband. Calm and sweet with dark features. I got so attached to this little boy in my head.
Well, after a horrible birth experience I felt extreme shock and disappointment after seeing my son who looked nothing like I imagined. But looking back a lot of that was from the drugs and pain. He was also an extremely unhappy baby but he also had had a traumatic birth experience. For the first year of his life, I felt this horrible GD which I now know was probably also PPD mixed with sleep deprivation and the reality of motherhood versus my idealized version. So, for the first year and a half of my sons life I obsessed over having another baby, a girl specifically. Because I guess I thought that would fix everything? And by the time I got pregnant again, i had a wonderful bond with my son (who was now also a great sleeper lol) so much so that I felt a lot of guilt about having another baby. Which my gut told me was another boy.
With my second I hoped and prayed it was a girl but wasn't surprised when I heard boy. I think this time the GD was because it was my last chance to have a girl and I felt like I blew it (not a good sway.) but i was determined to love him, have a good birth experience and NOT have any expectations of how he would look or act. And I was not disappointed when he looked much like my first son but was very calm and a happy little one. His birth was very healing for me.
Needless to say, I still feel an emptiness in my heart for the daughter I may never have and that's hard to live with sometimes. But if I ever have another pregnancy, I don't want to know the gender. I don't want to hope for a girl or even imagine what my baby might look or be like. I would just want to get attached to the tiny person growing inside my body. I even fantasize about not knowing the gender until after baby is placed on my chest and I can just hold them and love them for whoever they are without any expectations of who i want them to be. I would probably experience GD if it's another boy but maybe not. I may never know the answer to that.

[The Anchor]

GD is such a hairy beast isn't it? I'm so sorry you're feeling down.

I don't know how old you are, but I just want to say, if you want another baby, don't sit on the fence! JUMP! I having been TTC #3 since Oct 2012, and no luck. Your fertility drops off the chart at 40.

Huge hugs to you :)

[Mrs_Incredible]

When we had our 3rd son we (my husband!) was done. Even when i was convincing him that i wanted another, i has some reservations too but didn't voice them. I knew not having a fourth child would cause me more heartache, regret and upset than GD could. My last pg for our 4th i dealt with gd from the start, and just wanted to know [it was a boy] so i could deal with it as the hope was the worst part, i felt ready to grieve my dream and move on. I'm glad my husband got onboard. We would have loved our baby just as much had she been our 4th son (sure, i would have struggled with saying goodbye to my dream for the last time) but feel very blessed with our only daughter. GD is a very personal journey and we need to remember we are only human, we have a strong desire for our dg but that doesn't make us bad. You sound as if you've worked through your feelings and are in a good place for either outcome. Good luck, xx ps most dh's can be talked round ;) xx

[atomic sagebrush]

Huge (((hugs))), I remember when my first was born and he came out and I was like omg IT'S A BABY!! It was really a shock in a way, even though I knew I was having him and he was my DG at the time (I had a boy preference when he was born) it was still a huge mega adjustment. It is for everyone!!!

Thinking of you and let me know if I can help in any way.

[pink_bean]

GD is such a hairy beast isn't it? I'm so sorry you're feeling down.

I don't know how old you are, but I just want to say, if you want another baby, don't sit on the fence! JUMP! I having been TTC #3 since Oct 2012, and no luck. Your fertility drops off the chart at 40.

Huge hugs to you :)

Thank you! I'm sorry you are having such a hard time ttc. I sincerely hope it happens for you soon! I'm 39 so I know it's highly likely I won't conceive easily or at all or if I do my age poses a risk for chromosomal abnormalities, etc. I just can not see myself having another one for at least another 2 years. Also, I really can't see hubby coming around before then. But who knows?

I thought it would take much longer to conceive both my boys because of my age but I was under 40 (35 & 37)I actually wanted to be done before 40 so maybe I should just count my blessings and let it go.

[pink_bean]

When we had our 3rd son we (my husband!) was done. Even when i was convincing him that i wanted another, i has some reservations too but didn't voice them. I knew not having a fourth child would cause me more heartache, regret and upset than GD could. My last pg for our 4th i dealt with gd from the start, and just wanted to know [it was a boy] so i could deal with it as the hope was the worst part, i felt ready to grieve my dream and move on. I'm glad my husband got onboard. We would have loved our baby just as much had she been our 4th son (sure, i would have struggled with saying goodbye to my dream for the last time) but feel very blessed with our only daughter. GD is a very personal journey and we need to remember we are only human, we have a strong desire for our dg but that doesn't make us bad. You sound as if you've worked through your feelings and are in a good place for either outcome. Good luck, xx ps most dh's can be talked round ;) xx

Congrats to you on your daughter, I'm glad your DH came around to having a fourth. I kind of have a feeling my husband may come around in time but I have to be sure I would be okay with a third boy.

[pink_bean]

Huge (((hugs))), I remember when my first was born and he came out and I was like omg IT'S A BABY!! It was really a shock in a way, even though I knew I was having him and he was my DG at the time (I had a boy preference when he was born) it was still a huge mega adjustment. It is for everyone!!!

Thinking of you and let me know if I can help in any way.

Thank you, this forum really helps and I'm glad I'm not alone in my feelings. I'm pretty isolated in "real" life from other mothers that I feel I can open up to. maybe someday soon I can try to sway again if my husband comes around. I just hope he would be on board, he didn't take it too seriously the last time.

[Mrs_Incredible]

I was 39 by the time i had my dd. My dh just turned 40. He had put a sort of limit on wanting to be done by 40, so i knew it was now or never. I got my plan from atomic 12 months before our first attempt, but kept putting it off. I was scared to try and that made postponing it easy, along with my sister falling pg after being told she couldn't have kids, being diabetic since childhood made her pg high risk (she was also told her baby was 1:17 for ds). I took the £600 harmony test as i felt selfish wanting another when my plate was full with my 3 sons, and needed to have a fuller picture as it affects the whole family. I think when swaying it comes down to thinking about what would you regret more, not having your desired gender or not having another child. GD sucks. We all get it. And this forum is full of ladies who know how you feel. Hugs x

[Mrs_Incredible]

I also think to myself, if she had been a boy, i would have loved him the same but would also have a part of my heart that would be sad forever. I feel guilty for that thought. I don't dwell on it tho. I lived gd guilt with ds2&3. But each time i let it go. I'm only human. I love all my kids. I wont always get it right, far from it, but they are all my world and exactly who they were meant to be. Your outlook on a future pg is very positive, you sound as if you've come a long way xx

[kitkat18]

I could not agree more with everything the other ladies have said! Most if not all of who are on here have experienced GD it well and truely sucks! After DS 2 I was determined to get pregnant straight to have my girl and make everything perfect ( take away all the GD I felt mainly when pregnant with DS2) thank god my DH put a stop to that as I was so focused on just having a girl I never would have coped had it been my third boy. We waited this time, there will be a five year gap between DS2 and DD1 and for me time healed I realised I wanted another baby regardless of gender. Thanks to this site and atomic I did get my dream gender I'm 38 weeks with DD. My DH did not know I was swaying he would have thought it was all hocus pocus so I kept it to myself. Good luck and I look forward to following your journey XX

[Myloves]

"but each time I let it go. I'm only human."

I couldn't agree more with this comment MrsIncredible. I felt the same way. I had GD with my first two, but I got over it and moved on (and it took me a while to stop dwelling even after I had DD1), because one day you just have to let it go.

[Mrs_Incredible]

I'm sat watching frozen with ds3&dd and to let it go is on right now :) maybe that's why i love that song. It took a fair bit of counselling over the years to stop obsessing (as much) and dealing with catastrophic thoughts, anxiety, constant worrying etc. I think becoming less martha played a part in getting my dd xx

[pink_bean]

I could not agree more with everything the other ladies have said! Most if not all of who are on here have experienced GD it well and truely sucks! After DS 2 I was determined to get pregnant straight to have my girl and make everything perfect ( take away all the GD I felt mainly when pregnant with DS2) thank god my DH put a stop to that as I was so focused on just having a girl I never would have coped had it been my third boy. We waited this time, there will be a five year gap between DS2 and DD1 and for me time healed I realised I wanted another baby regardless of gender. Thanks to this site and atomic I did get my dream gender I'm 38 weeks with DD. My DH did not know I was swaying he would have thought it was all hocus pocus so I kept it to myself. Good luck and I look forward to following your journey XX

Congrats to you! I dont think my DH would go along with swaying. Especially if it involves diet change or taking supplements. So, its nice to hear that you had success swaying on your own. I think my DH is scared we would have another boy and I would get GD again. So, thats one reason he wants to stop at 2.

[pink_bean]

I'm sat watching frozen with ds3&dd and to let it go is on right now :) maybe that's why i love that song. It took a fair bit of counselling over the years to stop obsessing (as much) and dealing with catastrophic thoughts, anxiety, constant worrying etc. I think becoming less martha played a part in getting my dd xx When I first heard the term Martha on here, I thought it was referring to Martha Stewart! Haha I thought "yeah, i'm not very crafty." Lol but i am definitely obsessive and a worrier. Also, a perfectionist. I have gotten much better about the obsessing/worrying but having a hard time shaking the perfectionist part. I know I have to shake that off because it drives hubby crazy and I also dont want it to effect my kids. I had a hard upbringing though and I know thats where it stems from. I think counseling would help me as well.

[pink_bean]

"but each time I let it go. I'm only human."

I couldn't agree more with this comment MrsIncredible. I felt the same way. I had GD with my first two, but I got over it and moved on (and it took me a while to stop dwelling even after I had DD1), because one day you just have to let it go.


Definitely want to get to the point where I can let it go! Glad to hear there is hope. I think I am getting there but something triggers it and I'm back into it. But nowhere near how it was initially.

[trifecta]

When I first heard the term Martha on here, I thought it was referring to Martha Stewart! Haha I thought "yeah, i'm not very crafty." Lol but i am definitely obsessive and a worrier. Also, a perfectionist.
This made me laugh because I also think of Martha Stewart. It should give us hope, too, because Martha Stewart is totally a "Martha" and she has a daughter.

[pink_bean]

Well, husband has gone from no way to a big maybe on a third. He says if I want another baby it has to be because I want another child and not just a girl. He said if we decide to do it he WILL participate in a sway but he doesn't want me to get obsessed or excited about having a girl because we could have another boy.

This makes me happy because I feel like he is started to understand how I feel, but he is right. I can only do it if I'm okay with another boy. I now it's pushing it but I can not even think about another until my youngest is closer to 3-4 years old. Which puts me around 42 years old. I know it's harder to get pregnant at that age and I know all the risks. If it doesn't work out, I will let it go. It's just been so hard having two close together, my oldest was so jealous and the sleep and potty training regression have been a nightmare! I want my youngest potty trained and in preschool before we have another or no deal!
We did just have dinner with a couple that had a surprise baby at 46 (mom) and 50 (dad). But I can't go past 42 or 43. That's as old as I'll go and I only wanted 2 and two be done before 40. But that's when I assumed I'd have a girl, too.

[Keshet]

I was just on a hiking trip with my 3 boys and my newly showing belly when an older lady said to me: I used to come here all the time just like you. I had 3 boys and then I had another boy. And now they are all grown up and I now have 10 grandaughters." And with a big smile on her face she said: "it's wonderful!" It made me so happy to hear the longer term perspective.

[pink_bean]

That's awesome, Keshet. Congratulations on the new baby!

[atomic sagebrush]

This made me laugh because I also think of Martha Stewart. It should give us hope, too, because Martha Stewart is totally a "Martha" and she has a daughter.

But of course her daughter is older than a good deal of us and we have no idea what Martha was like when she conceived her!

I know a woman who was this laid-back VERY young girl who worked in a hair salon and married this super rich guy, got pg right away with a girl, and then after that went from Mary to Martha in about 3.5 months. A couple of more entertaining anecdotes were when she flew into a panic because her daughter slammed her finger in a door - not because she was hurt, but because it was her wedding ring finger and how could she ever get beautiful wedding photos taken with no fingernail (the child was 3 at the time) and she had a special drawer with new never been worn socks for her daughter so she could wear pristine white socks to go to the doctor's office. Needless to say she got a boy next.

[atomic sagebrush]

Hey, I had my DD at 42 and it was one of my easiest pregnancies and my easiest birth. :agree:

Remember, a lot of the people with issues in their pg at older ages were people who have other health problems to begin with. If you're healthy going in, you're certainly better off than a lot of younger women who are NOT. :)

[pink_bean]

But of course her daughter is older than a good deal of us and we have no idea what Martha was like when she conceived her!

I know a woman who was this laid-back VERY young girl who worked in a hair salon and married this super rich guy, got pg right away with a girl, and then after that went from Mary to Martha in about 3.5 months. A couple of more entertaining anecdotes were when she flew into a panic because her daughter slammed her finger in a door - not because she was hurt, but because it was her wedding ring finger and how could she ever get beautiful wedding photos taken with no fingernail (the child was 3 at the time) and she had a special drawer with new never been worn socks for her daughter so she could wear pristine white socks to go to the doctor's office. Needless to say she got a boy next.

This is funny. My husband thinks I would go crazy if we had a girl because I (used to) freak out over ODS clothes getting dirty. Needless to say I'm over that insanity. I think having two boys is making me less of a Martha, personally because honestly who has the energy to strive for perfection with two small children?

I think for me, much of it was living on my own and having the ability to have myself, my home and everything else in a particular order. I think that carried over into motherhood at first but now I have no choice but to be flexible.

[trifecta]

I'm not obsessive about order, dirt, other people's behavior, or anything like that but I'm sure my general neuroticism would still sway blue.

[pink_bean]

Maybe it's a defense mechanism but I always looked at the positives of what sways blue, like healthy diet and high fertility. I never knew it had anything to do with personality traits which is why I nearly starved myself to conceive a girl. Lol

[atomic sagebrush]

I'm not obsessive about order, dirt, other people's behavior, or anything like that but I'm sure my general neuroticism would still sway blue.

:agree: there are now 10 hundred people out there going "but I"m not obsessive about stuff like that"...well, me neither (kind of a slob to be honest) but I AM obsessive over tons of other things.

ONe of the most interesting observations I noticed when swaying was that I have always been very passionate about wearing seatbelts even if just going a short distance in the car. As in, practically having a panic attack if anyone ever wanted me to go in a car without decent seatbelts, even just a short distance. And then suddenly I found myself thinking "well, it's only just down to the post office" and not wearing my seat belt. It was totally out of character!

[atomic sagebrush]

Maybe it's a defense mechanism but I always looked at the positives of what sways blue, like healthy diet and high fertility. I never knew it had anything to do with personality traits which is why I nearly starved myself to conceive a girl. Lol

Food for thought if you do ever sway again, but I find the gals who are the strictest on diet get the most opposites. I think doing the diet "perfectly" becomes a source of obsession that actually sways blue and the gals who (either from choice or circumstance) have a more laid-back 80-20 approach, are much more likely to have success. :)

Remember, it doesn't take much fat coming in for your body to make testosterone (or whatever it is that is actually swaying) with and if it perceives a crisis situation that you may have to fight your way through to survive (as in, starvation) it will make testosterone out of anything it can get its greedy little enzymes on. :)

[True Blue]

I have so many obsessive tendencies it's not even funny. I think I border OCD for many things. Should I not be an all boy mom :D
I'm getting more laid back the last couple of years, Im much more relaxed and the need for things to be PERFECT is much less these days.

[True Blue]

I bet I am inadvertently swaying pink :worry:

Typical :D

[pink_bean]

One thing I did was give up at the end and took a bunch of supplements the month I conceived. I suffer from depression and it was getting bad and vitamins often help. Right now I am a crap eater but it's because I am so overwhelmed at times and I seem to have no appetite.

[pink_bean]

I wonder what kind of personality traits make you more likely to have a mixed gender family. And I mean families that have boy, girl, boy or gbgb in consecutive order like they just ordered it that way

[atomic sagebrush]

I have so many obsessive tendencies it's not even funny. I think I border OCD for many things. Should I not be an all boy mom :D
I'm getting more laid back the last couple of years, Im much more relaxed and the need for things to be PERFECT is much less these days.

Well, the thing is that there is STILL the diet, exercise, maternal condition part of the equation and also the "privileged daughter" hypothesis where if your body "detects" that your daughters will be beautiful and successful, you'll have more girls as a result. :)

Maternal condition is part of the puzzle. Personality factors are part of the puzzle. These things work TOGETHER along with whatever your hubs brings to the table and a heaping spoonful of LUCK!! :)

[atomic sagebrush]

I wonder what kind of personality traits make you more likely to have a mixed gender family. And I mean families that have boy, girl, boy or gbgb in consecutive order like they just ordered it that way

They have more luck than the rest of us. :)

YOu guys have to understand that Mary and Martha are not really TYPES of people, they are STRATEGIES that anyone can use (and we all use both Mary and Martha types of things all the time). So it is normal for people to be more Mary, or more Martha during different points of their life and that coupled iwth condition, fertility, their husband's contribution, and luck, makes it ENTIRELY possible for people to get different genders.

Most people get different genders of kids at some point without even trying. It feels like this impossible thing from where we sit but really, it cannot be that hard (or even hard at all) since most manage it with no effort at all.

[Dana-Alicia]

Pink_bean, your story sounds very similar to mine! I lost a confirmed girl during pregnancy and then went on to have 2 boys. I was much more at peace with my second son, did not suffer PND, but with Ds1 it was a nightmare, suffered from PND badly. It does sound like you've come a long way and I do hope you and your husband will give it one more try. FX for a little girl, but if not, I hope you find peace and strength in knowing you gave it your all.

[pink_bean]

Thank you, Dana-Alicia! It helps to know I'm not alone. Your comment means a lot to me! I'm so sorry for your loss, as well.

[Dana-Alicia]

It does help to know I'm not alone as well! This site is full of lovely girls who know what we are going through and don't think we are spoiled or ungrateful or whatever it is we fear we feel. FX we all get what we want!

[pink_bean]

They have more luck than the rest of us. :)

YOu guys have to understand that Mary and Martha are not really TYPES of people, they are STRATEGIES that anyone can use (and we all use both Mary and Martha types of things all the time). So it is normal for people to be more Mary, or more Martha during different points of their life and that coupled iwth condition, fertility, their husband's contribution, and luck, makes it ENTIRELY possible for people to get different genders.

Most people get different genders of kids at some point without even trying. It feels like this impossible thing from where we sit but really, it cannot be that hard (or even hard at all) since most manage it with no effort at all.

Sometimes I feel like if I wouldn't have been trying so hard to get pregnant the first time (lots of supps, pre-seed, healthy diet) before I even knew about swaying and if I hadn't tried to sway the second time and then quit suddenly, I feel like maybe I might have actually had a shot at a girl. What I'm saying is if anything I was inadvertently swaying boy. Maybe I'm not just a Martha type. Or maybe I am and I would've had boys anyway. But my husband said that God gave us these baby boys for a reason and I do believe that. I'm not overly religious but I do believe it was meant to be.

Also our men have to have more than a little something to do with it. I know a guy who had 6 girls with 6 different women. He finally had a boy after a girl with the 6th one.

P.S. I'm in no way undermining all the work and research you have done. I think it's genius and glad this site exists! Just sharing some thoughts. I think there are so many variables.

[atomic sagebrush]

You are not alone there and I think the exact same thing. I wonder a lot if I hadn't been so convinced with my 3rd that at 36 I was "probably infertile" and had to take tons of vitamins, and then with my 4th I was swaying the IG way and taking a bunch of supps, I wonder if one might have been a girl. I know there were other times I was exercising a lot and not eating much and I just didn't happen to get pg then.

That is why I say I think that people who have both genders are just luckier. That's all.

Where men are concerned, don't forget that some guys are attracted to certain types of women and that may not be as cut and dry as you think.

I will say once again that there aren't really Martha types or Mary types. These are STRATEGIES we use and if we are Martha more often than Mary, that may just be because that is what the environment we are in, and/or that we grew up in, has encouraged us to adopt a more Martha approach to life. It isn't set in stone in any way.

[atomic sagebrush]

I think that has "wrecked" it for MANY of us. I see it time after time that we who are over 35 and even some cases over 30, maybe becasue we are "Marthas" but we get so worked up and anxious about fertility and baby's health that we do a blue sway just in order to conceive, when we did NOT ever need to do all that. Our fertility was fine and the odds of Down Syndrome are kind of like being struck by lightning, it's just the worst luck on that and NOT because someone didn't eat the right foods, yk??

I could not agree more that it is absolute fear mongering and hugely exaggerated based on outdated information gleaned from a tiny handful of cases decades ago. I suspect strongly that for those of us with proven fertility the situation over 35 is NOT as dire as they make it out to be. Heck, I conceived pretty easily at 41 and I think back being SO convinced at 36 that I needed to do anything and everything to boost my fertility, well, I boosted myself right into another boy and he's my closest one to seeming like he has something "wrong" with him despite all that (has a challenging personality, very hyper, short attention span, reverses letters and numbers, and mild spinabifida).

NOw all that having been said, I don't like you guys to hem and haw and try to do 9 zillion sway tactics to postpone conception either, but I just hate to see ladies so convinced (on the basis of no evidence) that htey are "probably menopausal" that they then take and do things that sway blue on the basis of nothing but fear, yk??