New to the site after 2 MCs

[Amelia8]

Hi all,
I really love this site. I feel I get a lot of great info here. I've been on another site but I do feel this one suits my personality better (not the people on the site, just the swaying advice)
I have just had my second miscarriage since December - and I'm pretty devestated. We are swaying pink and I can't help but feel guilty that I've caused this.
I am on a dutch diet - which i paid for almost one year ago :(
And I"ve tried to incorporate all of these other sway things - FR, abstain, timing etc etc etc.
I just want to join this community because I do want to sway. But I don't take my Ph and I don't do lime douches, and I am really keen on the diet but that's about it.
I'm also wondering if FR could have led to mcs. Don't know....I really want a girl, but also just want another baby (I have one ds who I am so crazy about!)
So just want to say Hi everyone!

[Amelia8]

Oh I meant to say that there is nothing wrong with the people on the other site! Just all the swaying factors! Sorry if that came across wrong! Everyone here seems lovely too!

[atomic sagebrush]

OH I'm so so so sorry for your losses, Amelia. Welcome to our site! WE have great gals on here as well and a very large group of gals from the Netherlands.

FR is not believed to contribute to miscarriages. Most of the time, miscarriages are just completely random and nothing you did or didn't do.

The problem with adding all those other sway tactics is that they really cut odds of conception. This leaves you on sway diets for too long. Over time, your body can become somewhat depleted and we will need to adjust things accordingly to help increase your odds of a healthy pregnancy. Some of this advice may not mesh with what the Dutch Diet will tell you to do.

I would love to have a little more info about what kind of nutrients you are getting (I know you cannot tell me the jist of the diet but I am wondering if you are taking any other supplements, etc that may be interfering with your ability to get pregnant)

If you are limiting sodium very strictly you may not be getting enough iodine. I think you should immediately add in an iodine supplement of 150 IU, unless you have thyroid problems, in which case you should consult with your doctor right away.

I would add in zinc 8-15 mg 3x a week as well and also iron becuase the Dutch Diet supplements can block iron absorption considerablu. 30-60 mg iron 3x a week.

If you are taking high doses of Vit C (over 500 mg) and/or cranberry, those things can contribute to miscarriage and I would wean off of them.

We don't go in much for pH stuff anyway so no worries there.

Timing does not work. IT doesn't sway and for better odds of pregnancy I would have you drop that as well. Do one attempt at positive OPK or have unprotected sex every 4 days. We are getting good results with those methods!

[kitkat18]

Welcome Amelia! You have come to the right place we are seeing lots of pink success here! So sorry for your losses X

[Bobster]

Is sex every 4 days better than abstaining for 7 days with one attempt atomic?

[Amelia8]

Thanks so much Atomic and Kitkat! It's been really tough - so I really appreciate your kind words. Atomic - I guess you know all about the secrecy around the DD - it scares me! Anyways - I am taking the usual suspects, calcium, mag, vit d. But I haven't really taken any of them since the 2nd MC. I am however, taking double dose of Folic - 2000 mcg.
My thyroid is a little over 2.5 and I am cross about this! I knew it before my mcs but no one changed my dose. For me, that's not optimal, so perhaps it's got something to do with what's happening.
I was really restricting salt, but the last week I have been less strict about it. I almost feel that maybe going from super low levels to normal maybe had an effect? I could sit here and guess for ever! But my dh always says speculation is the enemy of calm!! And Dr. Google is a scary thing.
I did have DH take LR 4 days before timed TTC and then obviously the FR made me think maybe it's just bad sperm.
I am 36 dh is 43 so don't feel comfortable with abstain - I read your article!
I just want to thank you for answering my post- It really makes a difference and you are wonderful for taking the time!
I would just like to ask you, from your experience, and if it was you, would you choose LE diet over DD? In terms of results you have seen?
Thanks again!

[Hitmebabyonemoretime]

I'm sorry for your losses. To too experienced 2mcs in a short time... So devastating, but I went on to have 2 more boys so it can still happen for you! Welcome and i hope you find comfort and support here!


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[atomic sagebrush]

Is sex every 4 days better than abstaining for 7 days with one attempt atomic?

I cannot say which is better because we are not doing a scientific study. Two entirely different groups of people use abstain + one attempt as do DTD every 4 days.

All I can say is that I have been disappointed in the numbers that abstain has gotten but as it sits now I cannot be sure as to why that is. It may very very very well be the case that couples who are able to get pg with abstain + one attempt, are just highly fertile and more "SET" for blue than people who can't get pg that way. It may be that abstain is a great sway tactic and that the nubmers are just misleading due to the fertility factor.

[atomic sagebrush]

Thyroid is one of the main causes of unexplained losses and I would get a second opinion or consult with a specialist.

The LE Diet is my diet that I invented to be safe, healthy prepregnancy diet, free to everyone, and thus I ALWAYS recommend it over a diet that costs hundreds/thousands of dollars and none of us can even see it do to any research into it. But, as I have not seen the DD I cannot comment on it specifically. I do think that their so-called study is garbage because nearly everyone who started off doing it, dropped out because they were unable to stick with the diet, and a diet that no one can stick with is useless. That having been said, several people have told me that the DD is actually pretty similar to LE Diet in several ways and I think that the DD can work for people, but it isn't because of minerals, it's because it is restrictive in terms of nutrients. And it's my preference that everyone restrict nutrients in as safe a fashion as possible, which is NOT the DD. LE Diet is safer and is based on the recommendations of the World Health Organization as a safe pre-pregnancy level of nutrient intake.

When you say "really restricting salt" what do you mean specifically? YOur body needs the minimum of 700-1000 mg sodium a day for survival and you should never drop below that. Were you pregnant and restricting salt??? I typically have people who want to restrict sodium, to gradually increase to normal immediately upon getting BFP.

The truth is, you will never know why you had the losses. Very few of us do. People go looking and come up with this, that, or the other thing but I can tell you with all but 100% certainty that 4 days of LR and FR was not what caused this.

What is the policy of the Dutch Diet people for people who have been on the diet as long as you??? Surely they have you start to change your diet a LITTLE?? (please do not reveal anything you are not comfortable with, I just want to make sure they do not want you to have a month or two off at this point???)

[atomic sagebrush]

Oh and I'd have you switch to folate instead of folic acid, it is better absorbed by many people.

[maidentomother]

I would immediately switch to LE. The DD does not seem healthy to me.

[Amelia8]

Thyroid is one of the main causes of unexplained losses and I would get a second opinion or consult with a specialist.

The LE Diet is my diet that I invented to be safe, healthy prepregnancy diet, free to everyone, and thus I ALWAYS recommend it over a diet that costs hundreds/thousands of dollars and none of us can even see it do to any research into it. But, as I have not seen the DD I cannot comment on it specifically. I do think that their so-called study is garbage because nearly everyone who started off doing it, dropped out because they were unable to stick with the diet, and a diet that no one can stick with is useless. That having been said, several people have told me that the DD is actually pretty similar to LE Diet in several ways and I think that the DD can work for people, but it isn't because of minerals, it's because it is restrictive in terms of nutrients. And it's my preference that everyone restrict nutrients in as safe a fashion as possible, which is NOT the DD. LE Diet is safer and is based on the recommendations of the World Health Organization as a safe pre-pregnancy level of nutrient intake.

When you say "really restricting salt" what do you mean specifically? YOur body needs the minimum of 700-1000 mg sodium a day for survival and you should never drop below that. Were you pregnant and restricting salt??? I typically have people who want to restrict sodium, to gradually increase to normal immediately upon getting BFP.

The truth is, you will never know why you had the losses. Very few of us do. People go looking and come up with this, that, or the other thing but I can tell you with all but 100% certainty that 4 days of LR and FR was not what caused this.

What is the policy of the Dutch Diet people for people who have been on the diet as long as you??? Surely they have you start to change your diet a LITTLE?? (please do not reveal anything you are not comfortable with, I just want to make sure they do not want you to have a month or two off at this point???)

Thanks Again Atomic! By restricted salt I mean I barely ate food with salt and never added it to anything (I mean salt free bread, salt free noodles. Salt -free everything) Since the mc I have really eased up. Actually I was terrible this weekend.
To be honest - I'm not even being followed that closely on the diet. It's kind of up to me. I feel very stupid in hindsight and wish we hadn't wasted the money. But it's too late now. And in terms of gradually increasing salt!??! No!! I went from ZERO to totally normal - as in adding, etc. etc. I was never told to gradually increase, which I am feeling annoyed about. Do you even buy into no salt swaying pink? Ugh, all I know is that I wish I had come to this site 7 months ago!!! My question now is, do I wait (I really don't want to as both dh and I aren't getting younger) and do LE for a while, or hope that the radical change (no meat, no salt, tons of calcium) for the past 7 months with one 4 week break and one 6 week break do it for me.

[SweetLily]

Welcome to the site, I too have had a few mcs and it is hard, especially after healthy babies. The ladies here are great at backing you up with lots of info, I think you will like it :)

[Amelia8]

Thanks SweetLily and Maidentomother. I will switch and I will consider skipping the next cycle. But I have no patience anymore!

[Amelia8]

And so sorry for your losses sweetlily. Definitely hard. And frustrating.

[atomic sagebrush]

No, I do not believe that salt sways pink and I got my DD with my husband and I eating tons of it, after getting my 4th son I was limiting sodium. :/ Biologically it just can't work because your body simply saves all the sodium it can get from the foods you eat when you are eating very little, and if you are eating a lot, it just pees out the stuff it isn't using. The levels of sodium in your blood never change and we even had members do blood tests before and after doing this type of diet and their levels of sodium actually INCREASED when they did not eat much salt. :/

I was the one who came up with the idea to gradually increase salt so I guess that's why no one else mentioned it. It just seems safer to me.

You are supposed to get some sodium every day because your body requires it, so even if you continue on wiht DD please be sure you are getting 700-1000 mg sodium every day, that is for your health.

Whether to wait or proceed is one of those crystal ball questions I cannot answer. My thinking is that when in doubt, try, because you may not even get pregnant anyway. But if you will live a life of regret if you TTC and get a boy, then you may need to wait...but of course you could get a girl now and a boy by waiting too!! That is why I say it is a crystal ball question.

[Amelia8]

Thanks Atomic - and that is so interesting about the blood test. After I had totally reduced sodium for 8 weeks I had a blood test and compared it to the blood test I had right before I was on the diet - Sodium was higher!! I could not understand it. It was early in the morning, and I didn't have much water - that could have been it, but I think the whole blood level theory is a bit rubbish myself.
And yes! If only you/me/anyone had a crystal ball. I love my ds so much, and can't imagine life without him. I reckon that's the way I"ll feel with subsequent babies. MCs suck, and the what ifs are really discouraging. I did get the sac sent away for genetic testing, and actually I hope not to find out gender. I think it would be very difficult to hear it could have been a girl. Just read your kitchen sink/mellow yellow post. I'm going Mellow yellow. I can't stand the stress. I'm really following the LE rules as best I can, so fingers crossed. But thanks again. You are really amazing to find the time to answer all these questions with compassion, patience, and thoughtfulness!!

[atomic sagebrush]

Oh interesting, thanks for sharing that. If the diet really truly is changing the levels of minerals in your body it should make no difference if you've drunk water or not, IMO. I don't have the study in front of me now but I think that I recall that in the Dutch study, anyone whose numbers did not go down after being on diet a certain amount of time, were not included in the results of the study. I would LOVE to know what the genders of those babies were because that would demonstrate if it truly was mineral levels or if it was some other aspect of the diet (which is my belief). But they were just excluded from the study and I"m not even sure they went on to TTC after that or if they were told it didn't work and sent on their way. :/

We get much better results with the Mellow Yellow approach anyway. The people who go as we Americans say "B@lls to the wall" are very many times the ones who get opposites.

[Amelia8]

Ugh, I could go on and on, except I can't due to NDA…
Anyways - I'll tell you what though, I was eating full fat yoghurt by the bucket load and was actually gaining weight!!! Looking back it was really foolish on my part, but hindsight is 20/20.
By the way, that photo of your little girl is just too cute. It makes me smile every time!

[atomic sagebrush]

It's not foolish on your part, until 2008 everyone thought it was minerals that were swaying and in that case it would have been fine to eat full fat dairy till the cows came home. ;) I can tell you I have seen many sway opposites where the ladies were drinking gallons of whole milk every day and I am pretty darn convinced it's boy friendly (we are now using it for boy sways with very high success!)

[atomic sagebrush]

Oh and thank you!!! I adore my boys to be sure but I am happy I did get a girl in the end. :)

[Junie]

Hi! I just wanted to welcome you to the site! I also had a miscarriage in Jan and am swaying girl. I am so sorry for your losses!!! They can be so hard :( I think the LE diet is fabulous and I love atomic's advice!!!

At this point I've had to drop a few things as I have been on the diet (with breaks!) for over a year and have also been pretty sick the past month so can no longer do the cardio. I still think that if we manage to get pregnant soon that I have the best chances of having a girl as I have had for any of my pregnancies so far, all thanks to this site :)

[atomic sagebrush]

I deleted a post in this thread that I could not tell if it was spam or not. So if you are the person who posted it, that is why it was deleted. Spammers are not tolerated on this site and it doesn't matter if you post a few times seemingly legitimately before you post the spam, we always catch you and delete all your threads and ban you from the site. Please save all of our time and don't even bother.

[Hitmebabyonemoretime]

I think there is a spammy attachment in on of the other that I've participated in too. Like the post is normal but there is a weird link...


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[atomic sagebrush]

Exactly. I think the person's phone may be adding it and I don't want to delete their posts if they are legit, but I am just confused as to what is happening. So if you are the person in question and you're trying to post spam - don't. If you're legit, sorry for deleting the post