Why is clomid said to sway pink?

[happyheart]

Hello :)

I was wondering why clomid is said to sway pink? I read somewhere that it makes cm more hostile and/or dries up cm thus swaying pink. If this is true should I do less things such as rephresh, sylk, and zyrtec? I noticed in the notes from my ob that he wants me to BD everyday for 7 days.... yep... already planned that! lol! :)

Now just to finish this 40 day cycle so I can get started! lol... three weeks until I get AF...

Thank you for any help!! :)

[XXdreaming]

I am not real sure why, but I think its the drying up cm and stuff,

[zanacal]

Hi happyheart :D

Yes, you're right about the drying up and I've read Atomic advise not using any of the jellies etc. and BDing through O to get pregnant as quickly as possible while on clomid. I'll see if I can find some links!

[zanacal]

http://genderdreaming.com/forum/showthread.php?4669-Nothing-Sylk-or-Rephresh

I'm sure you've read this one but just in case:

http://genderdreaming.com/forum/showthread.php?1191-Clomid

Somebody posted a 'clomid' sway a while back but I just can't find it at the moment. If I happen across it I'll post a link!

It's getting close for us now eh?!

[zanacal]

http://genderdreaming.com/forum/showthread.php?4222-3boys-Girl-Sway&highlight=clomid+sway
http://genderdreaming.com/forum/showthread.php?3677-Please-evaluate-my-sway&highlight=clomid+sway

This is what I was thinking of!

[happyheart]

:HH: Thank you all for the posts!! I really appreciate it so much! I am happy that I am getting help for my very short luteal phases, but nervous about taking clomid and changing my sway plans. Guess the rephresh is going to go back to the store.

:HH: Thank you so much zanacal for posting all the threads!! I really really appreciate it so much!!! Yes... I can't wait for game time!!! I am on day 14 right now and have been having 40ish day cycles... Then I can start my first attempt cycle. :) I hope the time goes fast. :)

[happyheart]

Hi happyheart :D

Yes, you're right about the drying up and I've read Atomic advise not using any of the jellies etc. and BDing through O to get pregnant as quickly as possible while on clomid. I'll see if I can find some links!

Wowza!!! That is a change in plans :)

[atomic sagebrush]

Hello :)

I was wondering why clomid is said to sway pink? I read somewhere that it makes cm more hostile and/or dries up cm thus swaying pink. If this is true should I do less things such as rephresh, sylk, and zyrtec? I noticed in the notes from my ob that he wants me to BD everyday for 7 days.... yep... already planned that! lol! :)

Now just to finish this 40 day cycle so I can get started! lol... three weeks until I get AF...

Thank you for any help!! :)

YES! That is exactly right. With Clomid you need to get pg quick and it is already messing up your CM in a big bad way, so it's best to skip RepHresh, Sylk, and Zyrtec. The Clomid will do all the same things that they do, anyway.

[atomic sagebrush]

Wowza!!! That is a change in plans :)

I know I answered this on your other thread but for anyone who didn't read that, the reason why you need to have a diff. plan if you're on Clomid is because a) Clomid is already swaying pink to begin with by creating hostile cervical mucus, b) in addition to creating hostile CM, it also wreaks havoc with your uterine lining c) if you stay on Clomid for more than a few months, it is actually so good at creating hostile CM and wrecking your lining that it becomes basically a birth control pill and d) if you stay on it longer than a few months, the uterine lining gets so bad that it actually can cause CANCER.

So with Clomid, do what it takes to get pg as quick as possible.

[happyheart]

I know I answered this on your other thread but for anyone who didn't read that, the reason why you need to have a diff. plan if you're on Clomid is because a) Clomid is already swaying pink to begin with by creating hostile cervical mucus, b) in addition to creating hostile CM, it also wreaks havoc with your uterine lining c) if you stay on Clomid for more than a few months, it is actually so good at creating hostile CM and wrecking your lining that it becomes basically a birth control pill and d) if you stay on it longer than a few months, the uterine lining gets so bad that it actually can cause CANCER.

So with Clomid, do what it takes to get pg as quick as possible.

Thank you Atomic! I didn't know all that.... sounds a little scary...

[atomic sagebrush]

It is scary, but when used for only a short time, Clomid is very safe and has been used since the 60's.

[happyheart]

Wonderful!! Thank you! :)

[Regrow]

I used Clomid and had 2 boys although I did not sway!

[atomic sagebrush]

I used Clomid and had 2 boys although I did not sway!

You can def. conceive a boy on Clomid, it's no magic bullet, but it is one thing that is totally proven to sway the odds towards pink. A lot of swaying stuff is just rumor and conjecture, but we do know Clomid does alter the sex ratio.

PS - reading your siggy, congrats! Those are some fine betas!!

[Emery]

I am also a member of SoulCysters and I did this survery:
http://www.soulcysters.net/showthread.php?326109-If-you-were-successful-using-Clomid-Femera-AND-you-know-the-gender-please-come-in!

I don't see the hyperlink in the "quick reply" so i can c&p if you wish.

(ETA: The hyperlink showed up.) :)

[queen-of-harts]

Very interesting Emery!

[Emery]

Very interesting Emery!

I thought so myself. All responses are from ladies suffering from PCOS so I'm not sure if that will affect anything.

[happyheart]

Definitely interesting though. :)

[XXdreaming]

I am also a member of SoulCysters and I did this survery:
http://www.soulcysters.net/showthread.php?326109-If-you-were-successful-using-Clomid-Femera-AND-you-know-the-gender-please-come-in!

I don't see the hyperlink in the "quick reply" so i can c&p if you wish.

(ETA: The hyperlink showed up.) :)

It was more boys answered, let's say we wrong and clomid did sway blue, how would it be possible? It raised estrogen and maybe didn't effect their cm as much as others who took it?

[leap_of_faith]

It was more boys answered, let's say we wrong and clomid did sway blue, how would it be possible? It raised estrogen and maybe didn't effect their cm as much as others who took it?

Here is the drugs.com link to their Clomid page: http://www.drugs.com/pro/clomid.html

According to the Advanced Fertility Centre of Chicago’s webpage , Clomid causes hostile CM in about 30% of women for whom it is prescribed, which means that 70% of women will not see an adverse effect on CM.

My own FS explained to me that thinning of the uterine lining is considered a serious side effect of Clomid, right up there with OHSS, and would result in immediate cancellation of the protocol and a shift to injectables. It is NOT common and is usually associated with prolonged use. Every FS I have ever spoken to has been reluctant to keep a woman on Clomid for more than 3 cycles and none would prescribe it after 6 – there is a reason we need a prescription for this stuff ladies. If you’re on it, you need to be monitored, preferably with regular v/us and blood tests to ensure that it’s doing with it’s supposed to (and nothing else).

The studies that found Clomid to shift the sex ratio are based on older research before injectables became part of the main******. I can’t find it now, but I read a study a couple of months ago showing that Clomid has no effect on gender ratio if it’s use is well monitored and only prescribed for a short time.

With regard to the safety issue...

It is important to keep in mind that Ob/Gyns are NOT trained in reproductive endocrinology, though few would rush to point this out. Here is a link to the American Society for Reproductive Medicine’s page on the steps a practitioner has to follow to become a certified FS: http://www.asrm.org/detail.aspx?id=1909

As the site explains, in addition to qualifying as an Ob/Gyn, an FS has to complete 2 to 3 EXTRA YEARS of fellowship training to be recognised and this holds true in just about every country where fertility treatments are offered. In the US that's 4 years premed, 4 years med school, 4 years of Ob/Gyn residency and 2 or 3 more years of RE fellowship. Though it may not seem like much, those 2 to 3 extra years make a BIG difference in a practitioner's knowledge of the reproductive system and what to do when it gets wonky.

Even in the medical community there are a lot myths and misconceptions regarding Clomid. It IS a safe drug if used appropriately, but the cold hard truth is that doctors are only human and many of them simply don’t bother to keep track of the newest studies on the meds they prescribe. If you are taking it, then it is really important that you educate yourself and ask the hard questions when talking to your doctor.

Sorry for preaching, but I think its important for people to be aware of this.

[Regrow]

PS - reading your siggy, congrats! Those are some fine betas!!

Thank you atomic sagebrush!

[happyheart]

I read the link Leap_of_faith...

It states:
Clomiphene citrate has no apparent progestational, androgenic, or antiandrogenic effects and does not appear to interfere with pituitary-adrenal or pituitary-thyroid function.

Gosh... this makes me nervous as my OB told me that it will help my short luteal phase. I am sooo terrible at reading and understanding this stuff.. thats why I love it here... atomic and the other ladies are awesome at helping me understand!! :) :) I will be looking forward to her response. :) :)

[queen-of-harts]

I have to say that i was on a secondary infertility support site when i was ttc my 3rd child and the majority of women who took clomid had boys.

[happyheart]

I have to say that i was on a secondary infertility support site when i was ttc my 3rd child and the majority of women who took clomid had boys.

I wonder why this would be? I think I read somewhere that some doctors told their patients to dtd everyother day and though ovulation... my doctor told us to dtd everyday which I thought was good because that was in my plans anyway. :)

But still... why would this be? Just curious....

ETA: I think the most significant part of swaying is the diet which I am doing... so I am feeling good about my sway. :)

[atomic sagebrush]

I thought so myself. All responses are from ladies suffering from PCOS so I'm not sure if that will affect anything.

It does affect things because PCOS = higher testosterone = more boys than you might expect, but at the same time, Metformin (which a lot of those gals were taking) = lower blood glucose = more girls than you might expect.

Swaying - it can't ever be easy LOL!!! ;)

[atomic sagebrush]

I read the link Leap_of_faith...

It states:
Clomiphene citrate has no apparent progestational, androgenic, or antiandrogenic effects and does not appear to interfere with pituitary-adrenal or pituitary-thyroid function.

Gosh... this makes me nervous as my OB told me that it will help my short luteal phase. I am sooo terrible at reading and understanding this stuff.. thats why I love it here... atomic and the other ladies are awesome at helping me understand!! :) :) I will be looking forward to her response. :) :)

Clomid DOES help the luteal phase. I think the study is referring to NEGATIVE effects.

[atomic sagebrush]

It was more boys answered, let's say we wrong and clomid did sway blue, how would it be possible? It raised estrogen and maybe didn't effect their cm as much as others who took it?

(I'm not yelling, spelling this in all caps so people notice it...) CLOMID DOESN'T RAISE ESTROGEN!!!! Clomid BLOCKS the estrogen receptors in the body to the point that some people are actually given supplemental estrogen to make up for it. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clomifene

Clomid does not sway blue. It has been studied in controlled fashion (much more controllled than a survey answered by a few people on the SoulCysters site) and found to sway pink in several studies. Is it a magic bullet, NO, but unlike the majority of swaying stuff, it's actually supported by facts. Some other studies say it has no effect. So you're looking at something that either does not sway at all or sways pink.

Now if the question is, why do people continue to have boys while on Clomid, that answer is much more complex. Some (most) people just aren't that affected by it. Others are given supplemental estrogen (Estrace) that counteract the effects of the Clomid. People taking Clomid are also told to use Robitussin, Preseed, and BD in patterns for maximizing pregnancy, all of which can sway blue. Clomid also raises testosterone and that could play a role as well (esp. for those who stay on it longer than a month or two.). Finally, a large % of the people who are given Clomid to begin with are PCOS gals with higher than average testosterone levels to begin with.

That all these things are true and yet when studied Clomid was STILL found to sway pink, I think that is very telling about its effectiveness for the average swayer.

If you don't want to take Clomid, if you think it sways blue, don't take it. I will say that if I was under 35, could get my mitts on Clomid and I was swaying pink, I would take it in a heartbeat.

[atomic sagebrush]

Here is the drugs.com link to their Clomid page: http://www.drugs.com/pro/clomid.html

According to the Advanced Fertility Centre of Chicago’s webpage , Clomid causes hostile CM in about 30% of women for whom it is prescribed, which means that 70% of women will not see an adverse effect on CM.

My own FS explained to me that thinning of the uterine lining is considered a serious side effect of Clomid, right up there with OHSS, and would result in immediate cancellation of the protocol and a shift to injectables. It is NOT common and is usually associated with prolonged use. Every FS I have ever spoken to has been reluctant to keep a woman on Clomid for more than 3 cycles and none would prescribe it after 6 – there is a reason we need a prescription for this stuff ladies. If you’re on it, you need to be monitored, preferably with regular v/us and blood tests to ensure that it’s doing with it’s supposed to (and nothing else).

The studies that found Clomid to shift the sex ratio are based on older research before injectables became part of the main******. I can’t find it now, but I read a study a couple of months ago showing that Clomid has no effect on gender ratio if it’s use is well monitored and only prescribed for a short time.

With regard to the safety issue...

It is important to keep in mind that Ob/Gyns are NOT trained in reproductive endocrinology, though few would rush to point this out. Here is a link to the American Society for Reproductive Medicine’s page on the steps a practitioner has to follow to become a certified FS: http://www.asrm.org/detail.aspx?id=1909

As the site explains, in addition to qualifying as an Ob/Gyn, an FS has to complete 2 to 3 EXTRA YEARS of fellowship training to be recognised and this holds true in just about every country where fertility treatments are offered. In the US that's 4 years premed, 4 years med school, 4 years of Ob/Gyn residency and 2 or 3 more years of RE fellowship. Though it may not seem like much, those 2 to 3 extra years make a BIG difference in a practitioner's knowledge of the reproductive system and what to do when it gets wonky.

Even in the medical community there are a lot myths and misconceptions regarding Clomid. It IS a safe drug if used appropriately, but the cold hard truth is that doctors are only human and many of them simply don’t bother to keep track of the newest studies on the meds they prescribe. If you are taking it, then it is really important that you educate yourself and ask the hard questions when talking to your doctor.

Sorry for preaching, but I think its important for people to be aware of this.

Great post, thank you!!

[queen-of-harts]

Atomic why do you say "if i was under 35" ??? is it not comonly prescribed to 35+ in favor of injectables are stronger meds?

[XXdreaming]

Oh okay see I thought that it makes the brain think you're not producing enough estrogen so therfore you start to produce more and that's why it raises estrogen, oh but I get it now :) thanks for clearing that up for me

[XXdreaming]

oh and if I could get clomid I would take it lol might give me twins and a girl sure I would definitely take it :)

[Emery]

XXDreaming - the PCOS ladies get clomid from here: http://www.pharmacyescrow.com/s3168-s-CLOMID.aspx

Here is the link if you want to read why they swear by this company: http://www.soulcysters.net/showthread.php?324886-Femara..Has-anyone-bought-online-(without-RX)-and-had-success-on-unmonitored-cycle-!&highlight=purchase+clomid

PLEASE BE CAREFUL.

[Emery]

It does affect things because PCOS = higher testosterone = more boys than you might expect, but at the same time, Metformin (which a lot of those gals were taking) = lower blood glucose = more girls than you might expect.

Swaying - it can't ever be easy LOL!!! ;)

Atomic - your research makes sense from a hormonal scientific aspect. When questioning my RE (because I do have PCOS and I want a girl, as this will be our last child) she said that the stats are about 56/44 in favor of boys with Clomid + Metformin + Timed Intercourse in PCOS patients. Clomid + Met + IUI increases slightly to 57/43. I think these stats are coming from her practice.

Now, while on Met, we are highly encouraged to eat a high protein/low carb diet and exercise to lose weight. If we don't stick to a low carb diet, the side effecrs of Met are very yucky. I have a very mild case of IR so I take the lowest dose of Met, I do WW, and I exercise 6 times a week. I have dropped very little weight but my Body Fat % has decreased significantly, which tells me that I am gaining muscle. I am the perfect example of a boy making machine.

My RE told me that the only way to guarantee a girl would be through PGD. She is not the only medical professional that has told me the latter statement.

I'm not trying to discredit you at all. I think you are very knowledgable. But I still think diet may be the only factor, if at all.

[zanacal]

My RE told me that the only way to guarantee a girl would be through PGD. She is not the only medical professional that has told me the latter statement.

I'm not trying to discredit you at all. I think you are very knowledgable. But I still think diet may be the only factor, if at all.

If that's true then I'm very happy!

[Emery]

If that's true then I'm very happy!

LOL - Is that the route you are taking?

[atomic sagebrush]

Just for the record, I have NEVER EVER promised any kind of a guarantee from swaying.

PGD is of course the only way to guarantee a child of a particular gender IF you can afford it, IF you have a willing DH, and IF you are lucky enough to get pg. Not all of us fit into that category and for the rest of us, I think swaying is a good option.

I am the number one promoter of diet but diet cannot account for everything. There are tons of people who do great sways and get opposites and also proven facts like "more boys born after wars" and "more boys born to women with Master's Degrees" that have nothing to do with diet and cannot be explained by dietary factors.

Medical professionals are very down on swaying, but biologists/geneticists/evolutionary psychologists DO believe that altering the gender ratio in mammals is possible (even famous scientists like Richard Dawkins).

[atomic sagebrush]

Atomic why do you say "if i was under 35" ??? is it not comonly prescribed to 35+ in favor of injectables are stronger meds?

It doesn't work on gals with higher levels of FSH (older ladies) and I read that it should not prescribed to those over 35, but i have seen several ladies who were prescribed Clomid over 35, some successfully, some not.

Femara and injectibles are better options for older ladies but I do not know if those sway or not.

[atomic sagebrush]

Oh okay see I thought that it makes the brain think you're not producing enough estrogen so therfore you start to produce more and that's why it raises estrogen, oh but I get it now :) thanks for clearing that up for me

It does, but even once you start to produce more, it's still less than you would produce normally. YOur body responds to it because it is a sudden burst of estrogen where there previously was none, so it triggers ovulation, but it isn't as much estrogen as would be there had you not taken the Clomid.

[atomic sagebrush]

XXDreaming - the PCOS ladies get clomid from here: http://www.pharmacyescrow.com/s3168-s-CLOMID.aspx

Here is the link if you want to read why they swear by this company: http://www.soulcysters.net/showthread.php?324886-Femara..Has-anyone-bought-online-(without-RX)-and-had-success-on-unmonitored-cycle-!&highlight=purchase+clomid

PLEASE BE CAREFUL.

I really REALLY don't want anyone taking Clomid that they bought on line. I'm not going to delete this because we are all big girls who can make our own decisions but Clomid isn't TicTacs, it's real medicine with serious side effects and should only be taken under the care of a doctor. (Altho the way some docs hand the stuff out freely to their patients, it may as well be Tic Tacs haha)

[Emery]

Just for the record, I have NEVER EVER promised any kind of a guarantee from swaying.

PGD is of course the only way to guarantee a child of a particular gender IF you can afford it, IF you have a willing DH, and IF you are lucky enough to get pg. Not all of us fit into that category and for the rest of us, I think swaying is a good option.

I am the number one promoter of diet but diet cannot account for everything. There are tons of people who do great sways and get opposites and also proven facts like "more boys born after wars" and "more boys born to women with Master's Degrees" that have nothing to do with diet and cannot be explained by dietary factors.

Medical professionals are very down on swaying, but biologists/geneticists/evolutionary psychologists DO believe that altering the gender ratio in mammals is possible (even famous scientists like Richard Dawkins).

I truly hope I did not come off the wrong way. Of course there is no guarantee but PGD. I'm just trying to bring awareness to the fact that for PCOS patients, Clomid doesn't look too promising for a girl. Especially not me for the reasons listed above AND now - the fact that I do have an Master's! :)

[Emery]

I really REALLY don't want anyone taking Clomid that they bought on line. I'm not going to delete this because we are all big girls who can make our own decisions but Clomid isn't TicTacs, it's real medicine with serious side effects and should only be taken under the care of a doctor. (Altho the way some docs hand the stuff out freely to their patients, it may as well be Tic Tacs haha)

ITA agree with this. I think the ladies on SoulCysters are nuts for purchasing this stuff online but they always say that everyone's situation is different, yadda, yadda.

I also posted about how I am suprised at how many OBs Rx Clomid and let the ladies go unmonitored. In may area, NO OB will give you Clomid (I did ask a long time ago) and they all make referrals to the only RE in the area, who will NOT give Clomid without very close monitoring. I was flamed for that post too. LOL.

[zanacal]

LOL - Is that the route you are taking?

No, I'm doing other stuff but that's the part I'm confident that I'm doing well/right!!

[XXdreaming]

XXDreaming - the PCOS ladies get clomid from here: http://www.pharmacyescrow.com/s3168-s-CLOMID.aspx

Here is the link if you want to read why they swear by this company: http://www.soulcysters.net/showthread.php?324886-Femara..Has-anyone-bought-online-(without-RX)-and-had-success-on-unmonitored-cycle-!&highlight=purchase+clomid

PLEASE BE CAREFUL.

thank you :) thats very interesting, I am not brave enough to try it without a dr lol and they wont prescribe it to me because I am very fertile with regular cycles so just using it to sway for a girl they wont give it to me lol but would love to do it but I would have to have a dr to monitor to me because of all the side effects freak me out if I was doing it alone lol :)

[atomic sagebrush]

I truly hope I did not come off the wrong way. Of course there is no guarantee but PGD. I'm just trying to bring awareness to the fact that for PCOS patients, Clomid doesn't look too promising for a girl. Especially not me for the reasons listed above AND now - the fact that I do have an Master's! :)

No, not at all!!! :) Sometimes I answer q's quickly and don't doublecheck to make sure they are coming off right and that was a busy weekend with a lot going on so I didn't have as much time as I would have liked.


To further expound upon this point...in your previous point you said "Atomic - your research makes sense from a hormonal scientific aspect. When questioning my RE (because I do have PCOS and I want a girl, as this will be our last child) she said that the stats are about 56/44 in favor of boys with Clomid + Metformin + Timed Intercourse in PCOS patients. Clomid + Met + IUI increases slightly to 57/43. I think these stats are coming from her practice."

Honestly, I don't think 56/44 is bad odds for PCOS patients or those of us really and truly set for blue. Gender swaying techniques are often said to be "80% effective"...if PCOS patients are starting off up to 80% "set" to produce boys...please note I have no data to back these numbers up, just trying to illustrate a point...and the odds shift to 56/44, thanks to Clomid + Met, that is still a major improvement. Even if (much more likely) ladies with PCOS are starting off at 60-40 odds, 56/44 is STILL an improvement. My swaying philosophy always was, if I could just GET to 50-50, I would take the flip of the coin at that point. I did not and do not think my odds at a girl were EVER 50-50- or even 56-44 (even with my failed sway.)

That the odds with Clomid, Met, and IUI seem worse than with timed intercourse is actually not at all surprising to me, because IUI may bypass a lot of what is actually swaying anyway, due to the bypassing of the vag environment, much of the CM, and also the washing of the sperm.

[atomic sagebrush]

ITA agree with this. I think the ladies on SoulCysters are nuts for purchasing this stuff online but they always say that everyone's situation is different, yadda, yadda.

I also posted about how I am suprised at how many OBs Rx Clomid and let the ladies go unmonitored. In may area, NO OB will give you Clomid (I did ask a long time ago) and they all make referrals to the only RE in the area, who will NOT give Clomid without very close monitoring. I was flamed for that post too. LOL.

I'm sorry if you felt flamed by my post, that was not my intent at all. :worry: I very much appreciate everyone's input, especially when it encourages me to elaborate on something that I may not have thought of mentioning previously.