Giant not-ovulating follie on Femara - wth?

[LacePrincess]

I had my mid cycle scan today. On the left ovary, just 4 smallish follies. On the right, 6 small ones, then 1 x 10mm, 1 x 11mm, and one GIANT 28mm.

Ok wtf?!? 28mm???? Why the hell hasn't it ovulated yet holy crap!!!!

And now I'm thinking that maybe my problem isn't not creating follies, maybe my LH surge is broken. So by the time I surge the follie is waaaay overripe.

Anyone have experience with Femara and getting giant follies like this? Am I totally toast for this cycle?!? I have no idea if 28mm follies always mean they are no good. Kind of depressing. :(

ETA: Ok I just got a +OPK so thank God at least it's not a cyst. I'm not real happy it got so fracking big before surging though.

[djmommy]

Do you think it could be a cyst?

[LacePrincess]

Do you think it could be a cyst?

Well I was a little worried but I just got a nice strong +OPK this afternoon, so I should be ovulating today or tomorrow. I would've been concerned about a cyst if I didn't get the +OPK though.

At this point I'm just worried that any egg in there will be too mature if my body isn't producing an LH surge earlier than 28mm. I have no idea if Femara tends to grow big follies though.

[djmommy]

Wow, that is pretty big!!
FX for you!!!!!!

[LacePrincess]

Wow, that is pretty big!!
FX for you!!!!!!

Yah I know!! I have no idea if that's 'normal' for me or not. Kind of annoying. My google seems to find examples of RE's who think 28mm would always be too ripe, or it's 'ideal' so I have no clue what to think.

Oh well, at least it shouldn't be a cyst which was what I was concerned about.

[covered in blue]

Good luck Lace! Have u had ur attempt? FXed it's a good one xx

[Threelittlemen2013]

I had one that big my first clomid cycle. They didnt flat out say it was too big, but that was the impression I got. They did say that it would not get in the way of the other follicles that were ready, if any or all released. Good luck!

[LacePrincess]

CIB - yup we bd'ed yesterday at 3pm. As of noon I hadn't o'ed yet so I hope we were in time!



I had one that big my first clomid cycle. They didnt flat out say it was too big, but that was the impression I got. They did say that it would not get in the way of the other follicles that were ready, if any or all released. Good luck!

Grrr....I hope 28mm doesn't always mean too big.....it was the only one that was of good size, the other two that had grown were only 10-11mm.

I did email my RE's office so I hope my RE will actually look at my file!!

[djmommy]

Hi Lace!
How is everything going for you?

[LacePrincess]

Hi Lace!
How is everything going for you?

Good! Just waiting out my LP. I very clearly ovulated, so now I'm just crossing my fingers that my LP will make it to at least 9 days and I'll be pleased. My RE did look at my results so far and they said he was happy with what he saw, so we'll see.

[djmommy]

That is good!! I am keeping my FX for you!! :LotsofLove:

[maidentomother]

Lace, so happy to see you Oed and in a timely manner. I really think you Oed a day later on CD15, however, considering the OPK, CM, and CP data plus even temp data supports CD15. I just want to be sure you get an accurate LP. Though hopefully you will get a BFP instead (very likely I think!).

[LacePrincess]

Lace, so happy to see you Oed and in a timely manner. I really think you Oed a day later on CD15, however, considering the OPK, CM, and CP data plus even temp data supports CD15. I just want to be sure you get an accurate LP. Though hopefully you will get a BFP instead (very likely I think!).

Yah my temp started rising on the morning of CD15 so I'm pretty sure I can pin O in the vicinity of somewhere between midnight on CD14 and noon on CD15. LOL. It doesn't really matter that much, and CD15 would be better since we were worried we bd'ed too late if O was on CD14. I 100% am sure I didn't O before late evening on CD14 at the very earliest.

[maidentomother]

Your chart looks so great!

I'm pretty sure I Oed somewhere between 10pm (when O pain started) and 4am (when O pain peaked) though I still have O pain now at 8pm, and when I woke up at 10am it was still very painful. And as you can see my temp was nice and high already by then. I only got one 90% positive OPK at around noon yesterday and they've been fading since. My OPKs the day before yesterday were very light so it was a super brief surge that came out of nowhere. Crazy how that can happen! Based on past cycles like this I've estimated that I can observe a temp rise to LP range as soon as 6 hours after O.

Anyway, I think you're probably right about when you Oed snd I find it super interesting how we can determine a pretty small window for O based on OPKs, temps, and O pain as well as other fertility signs (e.g. my CM was completely creamy even at my cervix 10am this morning, but at 2am before I went to bed I had visible EWCM when wiping).

[LacePrincess]

Maiden, your temp rise is unreal!!

For me my most accurate sign is my CP. Temp rises for me are always a bit slow out of the gate, so it's hard to pin down when they start, and CM always takes 1-2 days past O to dry up. My CP however is the first and most obvious sign. Thanks to Femara I felt my ovaries feeling all bloated/crampy too (and usually I NEVER feel my O) so that helps lock down my O timeframe.

It was a bit frustrating this cycle with temps as the Femara totally screwed with my temps on cd3-7, and then I ran a bit of a fever right around O time which threw off the few days right around O.

[maidentomother]

It is a big jump but a big part is due to my FP temps being significantly lower than usual, as well as my temp dropping so soon and so much during AF, which is also unusual. I'd be thrilled with my chart if it weren't for my super delayed O, AGAIN. I haaaaaate waiting nearly a month to O, waiting nearly 3 weeks as I usually do was bad enough. I know you understand my frustration! I'm desperate for meds to make me O on time.

My cervix is also my most reliable sign, it has never faked me out, but it's my first sign as usually when not swaying I will have fertile CM for days before my cervix turns SHOW. There is a bit of variation but on average it will go SHOW about 3 days before O and usually starts to turn infertile at least a day before O.

My CM has always been so variable, in terms of how much/many days of fertile CM I get, when it starts and whrn it stops. The only reliable thing about it is it will turn creamy bym2 days after O at the very latest, though usually it's sooner, the day of O or the day after.

Your chart looks great and very clear to me this month. High temps while taking Femara/Clomid is super common, and I had crazy high temps on Soy Isoflavones. Your temp jump is very nice, no slow rise this time! I hope that means it's a high quality egg and you'll have good P production and a long LP, if not a pregnancy. I have a really good feeling about this cycle for you.

[LacePrincess]

Well I'm hoping for at least a clear 11 day LP. I'd say 10 day LP but since I o'ed somewhere CD14-15, I'm hoping for 11 day LP to be sure it's functional. Anymore is gravy!!

When you're ready to try again, maybe Femara would do the trick for you too? I was really quite surprised at how the min dose clearly did the trick to grow one good timely follie for me. My temps *during* Femara were all over the place, but they settled into normal range right away after I was done with the Femara.

It really is AWFUL nice to O on time for once, LOL. It makes the cycle go by so fast when the FP is 'only' 2 weeks like it's supposed to be!! I've never had that before.

[maidentomother]

I really want to try Femara but I think I will probably be offered Clomid if anything. Still have to go back to the FS for that! But I do feel Femara might be better for me, as I prone to cysts, very prone to ovarian pain, and worry that my lining is thin bc my AFs are so light/short. Plus my FSH and LH seem higher than they should be, though I still hope that's bc they tested me on CD8. I will get my FSH, LH, E2, testosterone, DHEAS, SHBG, vit D rechecked on CD3 next cycle, so in less than 2 weeks.

[LacePrincess]

Sounds good that you're getting tested again, that'll help for sure.

Too bad about Femara though. Are you sure? I hear the Clomid shortage is worldwide now, so maybe you'll luck out and get Femara instead.

[maidentomother]

No I'm not totally sure, though I'd be shocked in Germany had a med shortage, they are super organized here. If I get a nice dr (the clinic I went to, you see whatever dr is available, not necessarily the same one every time), I might try asking for it. They know I worked as a pharmacist in the US which usually gives me a bit of credibility.

[LacePrincess]

Definitely ask for it!! Can't hurt, right?

I know the whole 'off label' thing has some clinics skitterish though, which seems to be the potential hang up. My clinic just made me sign a waiver acknowledging the risks, yadda yadda and easy peasy. So you never know if you don't try!

[atomic sagebrush]

we are probably singlehandedly responsible for the Clomid shortage LOL. The docs are scratching their heads and wondering why demand for Clomid has skyrocketed over the last 4 years. ;)

Charts looking good!! FXFXFX!

[LacePrincess]

Actually I was told by my clinic that the shortage was due to a manufacturer's recall. Not sure if just Canada though.

[maidentomother]

You're right Lace and LOL atomic!

Lace, nice LP and temps and omg, when will you test?

[XXforhubby]

Seriously Lace, TEST....please?!

I'm stalking.....[emoji4]


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[LacePrincess]

Nope! I haaaaaaate bfn's, LOL. I'll test Saturday if no AF by then.

[atomic sagebrush]

Actually I was told by my clinic that the shortage was due to a manufacturer's recall. Not sure if just Canada though.

I was just kidding!! I wonder why it was recalled though.

[atomic sagebrush]

Nope! I haaaaaaate bfn's, LOL. I'll test Saturday if no AF by then.

:agree: chart looking lover-ly but you know me, I prefer everyone test late instead of early!

[maidentomother]

Not far away at all!

[LacePrincess]

Ah dang, AF just started. Still, a pretty good cycle!

[XXforhubby]

Shoot! Well this cycle was awesome! Hope next cycle is even better [emoji4]!


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[LacePrincess]

Yah I was happy with the cycle. A clear strong 11/12 day LP is perfect. With my age it's expected that 2/3 of the eggs are no good so hopefully it's just waiting for the right egg.

We see the RE on Mon and will get our SA results, which really is the one thing left I'm really concerned about.

[XXforhubby]

Please keep us posted! I'll be checking back for the results!


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[maidentomother]

I think you would benefit from a higher dose. So sorry this cycle wasn't it but VERY happy to see such improvement!

[Threelittlemen2013]

I think you would benefit from a higher dose. So sorry this cycle wasn't it but VERY happy to see such improvement!

What makes them do a hibher dose? Just curious as we are kinda similiar with a few fertility things/age. I am on the same dose as well and feel AF approaching too.

[LacePrincess]

I think you would benefit from a higher dose. So sorry this cycle wasn't it but VERY happy to see such improvement!

Any particular reason you think a higher dose would be better? I know my RE reviewed my results mid cycle and his assistant said he was very happy with it, so I'm not sure he'd go for a higher dose. Isn't one big good follie the goal of Femara?

If anything I would see if he'd like to add any prog support, but I'm quite okay with the LP - temps were higher and clear almost-triphasic shift, and temps stayed way higher until even this morning. No pms, no cramps, no spotting, no sign of AF until it suddenly showed this afternoon. And the best my natural LP ever got was only 12 days so this cycle's LP is perfectly functional.

I will ask tomorrow when I call in, but I doubt I'd be able to get my dose changed for this cycle anyways.....I'd have to start Femara on Sat and I don't see my RE till Mon.

[maidentomother]

Bc I think your LP should be longer, and might be on a higher dose. I also believe the Femara may help with egg quality but in a dose dependent manner. I agree this cycle was good, but I'd like to see even better.

[LacePrincess]

Bc I think your LP should be longer, and might be on a higher dose. I also believe the Femara may help with egg quality but in a dose dependent manner. I agree this cycle was good, but I'd like to see even better.

Ah. Well I guess I'll have to see what the RE thinks..... I emailed just now. Might still be stuck for this cycle if my RE isn't in till Monday though.

[covered in blue]

Oh sorry about AF lace! We are cycle buddies! I got AF today too :(. Waaaaaa!!!

[LacePrincess]

Okay so whacky.....so I guess not quite cd1? Yesterday afternoon I did indeed have bright red 'flow', started with when I (tmi) was having a bm. I put in a tampon but a few hours later the bleed had totally stopped, and my cervix still closed. Totally didn't bleed overnight at all, not even spotting, cervix still closed as of this morning. Huh.

So guess I put spotting in for yesterday and that makes my LP 12/13 days as of today. I did test, bfn, lol.

Oh boo CIB!! :(

[maidentomother]

How full was the tampon? I'm always suspicious of 'flow' after a BM bc it can make what's actually just spotting gush out in a misleading manner. Fx your AF stays away!

Also, does your AF usually start at a certain time of day? Mine almost always starts in the am, usually just before I wake up but latest by noon.

[LacePrincess]

How full was the tampon? I'm slways suspicious of 'flow' after a BM bc it can make what's actually just spotting gush out in a misleading manner. Fx your AF stays away!

Not at all. The 'flow' was a small gush of bright red into the toilet when I was having the bm, and then I had to leave for dance so I just put a tampon in. When I went to take it out later that evening it was bone dry and hurt pulling out, and just had some blood up the side but no more than my heavy spotting days that I have at the tail end of my period.

I definitely am not preggo though, tested stark white BFN this morning plus my temp dropped and I'm cramping this morning, so full on AF should be here later today. It does extend my LP by an extra day though which is good, plus I don't have to trek to the damn clinic again today which is even better! LOL

[maidentomother]

Very happy for every extra LP day! I know how precious even one more day is. And ugh, I abhor removing not-full tsmpons, it's so uncomfortable.

[LacePrincess]

Urgh, this is the crampiest AF ever. I wonder if it's the Femara, or if it's because it's the first time in a long time I've had a 'normal' level of progesterone so there's a lot of functional lining to shed?

In any case the cramps are kicking my butt. And the flow ain't really starting either, soooooo crampy but flow is medium at best, arghhh.....I feel like jumping up and down if it would help rattle the stuff loose, LOL....

I'm taking a break from temping this month too. The thermometer is just stressing me out to the point where I can't even sleep properly. With the scans and bloodwork at the clinic they'll know what's going on, and my RE was encouraging me to quit temping for my own state of mind. I think I agree. My CM/CP always told me O better than temps anyhow.

[maidentomother]

Big hugs...I have awful cramps but much worse some months, and yes, it does coincide with heavier bleeding. I wish I'd marked my 2 REALLY bad months (so bad that on CD1 not even a cocktail of strong drugs including injections touched the pain) so I could see if there was a pattern in my charts. Maybe those were hyper O months and your idea about more P is right. P does cause cramping so I wouldn't be surprised.

[LacePrincess]

Gosh, I don't have it as bad as you did! Yikes, maiden!! I'm still functional, just that I was used to pretty much NO cramping the past year or so.....but maybe that was due to practically being anovulatory with very poor O and shitty prog, hence easy AF's.

I'll take the pain if it means good things! ;)

It's just annoying though, very crampy and flow not picking up.....it's still just a medium today so I'm kinda annoyed by that....I wish it would get flowing already, LOL.

[maidentomother]

I rarely have medium flow anymore, maybe for a few hours on CD1...the rest is light flow. I'm kinda jealous! I hope now that I'm not swaying I'll see heavier AFs. Strange to WANT that, but glad I'm not alone. :)

Most months, like 90%, it's only on CD1 that I have trouble functioning, and some months I can function. Keep in mind this is on high dose ibuprofen + opiates. I used to not be able to tolerate ibuprofen, I'd throw it up instantly, but since I began tolerating it 10 years ago my pain has been MUCH better controlled. Thankfully I've only had 2 really bad AFs in 20 years, but yeah, I just screamed & cried for hours. My poor BFs at the time were very distressed!

[LacePrincess]

Gosh that sounds horrible! :(

I'm finally hitting heavy flow now, so, yay, LMAO. I'm glad it was on a weekend so I can just lie around and complain.....

My flow has been fairly heavy-ish in the past year but my AF has been fairly short. Like, 4 days including light/spotting on either end. As a teen and in my twenties, I used to get 5-6 day AF so I'd actually appreciate a longer AF funny as that sounds. For me at least I do think shortening AF indicated a problem.

I usually use Ibuprofen too, Tylenol doesn't do a thing for cramps. But not even ibuprofen was helping yesterday, I had to switch to Aleve.

[maidentomother]

It was bad but both incidents were in college and pre-ibu tolerance, so I think I probably won't have another extreme AF now that I can take ibu. Here in Germany they formulate ibu with lysine to make it gentler on the stomach, so now I can even take that kind on an empty stomach with zero discomfort. I'm sooooo grateful!

Nothing except ibu + opiates ever helped my cramps. That's very interesting to me that this month naproxen worked but ibu didn't! I wonder why. Tylenol is completely worthless as a painkiller IMO, I've never found it useful for anything. And combined with opiates as it often is it mskes my nausea worse. I hate it!

I feel the same, I don't like any significant changes to my AF and worry about what they could mean. Since swaying my AFs have gotten shorter & lighter over time. The months I had only 2 days of light flow disturbed me especially. Fx we both see a return to our norms.

I hope your cramping is better today?

[LacePrincess]

Yes it's better so far, but the floodgates have opened! LOL I'm sooooo grateful it's the weekend. Alas my bloat this AF is unbelievable. Up like 3lbs over the last two days. YIKES!!!! I know it's bloat but still so unpleasant to see on the scale!!

[maidentomother]

I have never had water cloat/weight...ever. Or not that I can notice. I do fluctuate by 3-5 lbs over the course of my cycle but no fast changes within days. I can imagine that would be upsetting! Glad you're feeling better and having a normal AF. :)

[LacePrincess]

Lucky you!! It's normal for me but a little high this month....usually it's in the 1-2lb range, so 3lbs isn't making me very happy!

AF is 'thinner' too, I'm usually clottier than this. I wonder if that means anything.

[maidentomother]

I've always had a fair bit of variation in the department. I THINK maybe my heavier flow AFs tend to be clottier, but not always. I've never actually discussed the details of AF with anyone so much! I find it all really interesting though. And especially that you notice consistency in your clottiness. I wonder what it means that I don't? Maybe it's just bc I'm generally a bit variable? I wonder what's 'normal'. I may also have a clotting issue bc there is a strong family history of stroking and I myself had a mini stroke on the Patch.

I do think it's possible that Femara could affect the clottiness, bc estrogen affects clotting. So I'd probably chalk it up to that.

[LacePrincess]

Oh well I'm always worrying about something, LOL.

Meh I'm sure it probably really doesn't mean that much. Especially as I'm not on any blood thinners.