Anyone do Femara/IUI

[HealthyGirl]

So looks like my husband and I will be doing IUI with femara this month. We were hoping to do femara with timed intercourse but something tells me we might need the IUI help.
Last month my cd 3 lab work showed AMH to be 1.4 and FSH to be 14.
Although I know with these numbers I can still conceive on my own I just am running out of patience and time and TTC the last 5 months has put a lot of stress on our daily

Anyone done or know anyone who has done IUI and know the gender? Is it true it favors boy over girl?
The doctor originally wanted to put me on 100 mg clomid with IUI but I kinda told him I prefer femara over clomid ( due to higher chances of twins and effect on uterine lining)

I would still love to have my pigeon pair.

Thanks

[maidentomother]

IUI sways boy and if the issue is with your hormones/eggs/uterus (though I really think you just need to give TTC more time), then IUI doesn't really boost odds of conception. IUI has very low odds overall, it's just a very ineffective method of conception compared to timed intercourse or even AI. It's only really worth it if there is a sperm issue or you have hostile CM (and that's unlikely in your case since you've conceived once naturally).

Otherwise it's just something drs advise to make money and so they can make you feel like you're doing something useful to improve your odds. Bc the drs dont actually know why you arent conceiving or they dont even care and just want to seem proactive. Most of the time it's a scam. Most drs HATE having to admit ignorance or failure and many would never do so. They'll do much to seem as confident & omniscient as possible in their patients' eyes.

Just do Femara and BD every 3 days ALL cycle long to optimize sperm quality. Don't do IUI!

[djmommy]

Wow maiden! I honestly didn't realize all of that. I thought the success rate was pretty high. If I do remember correctly it does sway boy more. But why is that?

[HealthyGirl]

Really appreciate the response maidentomother.

Our RE told us femara with TIC will probably be like trying naturally on our own.

He also said IUI doesn't work when it's a male issue and it's used for unexplained infertility as in our case.
I completely agree with you that it's just a scam but I did one cycle on femara unmonitored ( my husband and RE don't know ) and we bd every 3 days that cycle and it ended in a bfn and that's why I'm not very hopeful.
My insurance pays for the IUI so I thought it might be worth a shot.

Is there a reason why it sways boy? Does it depend on which sperm washing technique they use at all?
One of the questions my husband asked him today was about whether it favors one gender over the other. We are still waiting on a response.





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[atomic sagebrush]

Please bump this for me, I have answers to some of the questions people are raising

[HealthyGirl]

How do I bump this?


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[djmommy]

BUMP!! :)

[maidentomother]

As with all things swaying, we're not completely sure why IUI sways blue but we have some good theories. First is the fact that it bypasses your vagina/cervix, putting the sperm directly in the uterus. We think part of what sways pink are changes in CM caused by diet etc, so by bypassing the step of sperm going through CM, which reduces sperm selectively possibly in favour of X sperm, and/or interacts with the sperm sending them a signal to act differently, perhaps slow the Y sperm....we don't know the exact method for sure but there is much evidence that suggests creamy/reduced CM sways pink.

Second, the washing technique may sway blue, by killing/negatively effecting X over Y sperm or activating the Y sperm to make them superior. Washing is basically instant capacitation (the process sperm go through in our repriductive tracts in order to be capable of fertilization), and in our bodies that can take several hours, possibly up to 12, and how quickly and how many sperm are capicitated in vivo can vary tremendously based in large part on the CM. So for example, with natural sex, you might have 50% sperm capacitated at the time of fertilization and spread out through the reproductive tract, whereas with IUI you have close to 100% capacitated and ALL in the uterus. For reasons we don't know, possibly communication between sperm, more sperm together/higher sperm count seems to sway blue. So with IUI you have not only more sperm in the uterus, they're also all capicitated and ready to go, which effectively magnifies the high sperm count effect.

Edited to add: Another possibility is that the total number of sperm and ratio of capacitated to uncapacitated could signal the egg to change its permeability and preference for X vs Y sperm. The outer layer of the egg, the zona pellucida, has all kinds of proteins/receptors/channels which receive info and initiate changes to the cell membrane, eventually leading to fertilization. There are SO many possible ways these could be involved in passive and/or active gender selection by the egg, which I believe to be the result of swaying on a cellular level.

Some of these ideas are mine, based on my understanding of facts, so educated guesses. Some have been around for a while, and I'm pretty sure atomic came up with inter-sperm communication. I have to stress that we could be wrong and these are not proven mechanisms, but hopefully they help give you an idea of the possible details of how swaying works.

Be back in a bit to explain why IUI pregnancy rates are so low, need to charge my tablet.

[HealthyGirl]

Thanks Maidentomother.
We are gonna go for timed intercourse but don't know if I should do every 3 days or eve 3 days plus additional attempt at pod opk.
I did every 3 days on femara ( unmonitored)for one cycle and it's ended in bfn.
My RE decided to put my on 5 mg of femara this cycle.

Btw did I understand you correctly in June 2ww when you said you were conceived through IUI?


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[maidentomother]

I think in your case the issue is waiting for a good egg, not too few attempts. I would really stick with every 3 days if I were you.

No I was conceived by AI...artificial insemination with a syringe...one dose so one attempt, first try succeeded.

[HealthyGirl]

Maidentomother what do you mean by not too few attempts?




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[atomic sagebrush]

A large number of RE's will not do IUI any more because it doesn't work. It is hard to give useful stats because so many people are doing IUI who have fertility issues but here's one article that discusses some of the studies that were done that show piss poor odds of conception. What Is the IUI Success Rate in Pregnancy? (http://infertility.about.com/od/infertilitytreatments/f/iui_success.htm)

Unfortunately for insurance purposes many docs HAVE to do 3 cycles IUI before they can move on to IVF. I do not think it's a good idea for anyone with egg quality issues because the real issue is just "waiting for Goldie" and not "unexplained infertility". Low AMH, high FSH is NOT unexplained infertility, that is explained LOL. BUT some doctors may pursue this because they want to get your insurance to pay for IVF eventually. THat may or may not be in your best interest.

The problem I have with it is that most people do IUI PLUS intercourse and that ends up being more than one attempt in fertile window. And in terms of stats no one really knows which BD was the one that did it, so IUI may even have WORSE pg rates than we realize.

[atomic sagebrush]

Wow maiden! I honestly didn't realize all of that. I thought the success rate was pretty high. If I do remember correctly it does sway boy more. But why is that?

We don't know why it is. And in fact the overall numbers (like with Clomid) do not make this obvious, we know of people who did IUI and got girls (keep in mind that . BUT the reason why we DO know it sways pretty strongly is because we have old studies on timing. In these studies, people were either given Clomid and told to DTD 3 days before "ovulating" (keeping in mind that this is actually impossible because as we all know, Clomid can totally change the day you O, but I digress) or NOT given medication at all and just brought in for IUI on O day. The Clomid group got overwhelmingly more girls, the IUI group got overwhelmingly more boys, and since new and better ovulation detecting technology has shown 50-50 boys and girls conceived every day of the cycle, timing has to be removed as a variable leaving only the Clomid and IUI to be swaying.

[atomic sagebrush]

Really appreciate the response maidentomother.

Our RE told us femara with TIC will probably be like trying naturally on our own.

He also said IUI doesn't work when it's a male issue and it's used for unexplained infertility as in our case.
I completely agree with you that it's just a scam but I did one cycle on femara unmonitored ( my husband and RE don't know ) and we bd every 3 days that cycle and it ended in a bfn and that's why I'm not very hopeful.
My insurance pays for the IUI so I thought it might be worth a shot.

Is there a reason why it sways boy? Does it depend on which sperm washing technique they use at all?
One of the questions my husband asked him today was about whether it favors one gender over the other. We are still waiting on a response.





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I know you've asked me about this several times HG and I think I probably should have been firmer about it at the beginning but you are taking the "sperm washing may matter" idea way too seriously. It was (as all these things are) a small, statistically significant difference in one study done ages ago, but it DOESN'T WORK or else all the RE's would be using it. Even with washing and spinning and swimming up and down, Ericsson method does not get different than 50-50 X and Y sperm and he has admitted this, but claims that the sperm go on to make different % of XX and XY babies - still about the same we are getting with swaying + fertility medication. No better, and it may very well be the fertility medication doing that anyway.

So the idea you keep coming back to in your mind, that somehow just doing the washing will do anything at all tangible - it just can't matter really. And the reason why they use the washing methods they do is because certain washing methods make much lower odds of conception than other methods do and I think it is just best, since rates of conception are not great with IUI to begin with, to stick to the washing methods that your doctor has seen best conception rates with and not chase a ghost from a study that was done like 30 years ago on these washing methods. If they worked in any reliable way, all the doctors would be doing it. I am just really concerned that you have this idea in your mind that you'll do IUI with some washing method and end up having a girl but it does not work that way. I am afraid you are lowering both your chances of conception and chances of pink.

Sorry I hope that isn't overly harsh, I am just really concerned we are on the cusp of a mistake here.

[atomic sagebrush]

Thanks Maidentomother.
We are gonna go for timed intercourse but don't know if I should do every 3 days or eve 3 days plus additional attempt at pod opk.
I did every 3 days on femara ( unmonitored)for one cycle and it's ended in bfn.
My RE decided to put my on 5 mg of femara this cycle.

Btw did I understand you correctly in June 2ww when you said you were conceived through IUI?


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You have to keep in mind though that with low AMH, high FSH, you may not have gotten a good, fertilizable egg that month. I just feel like you're thinking that if you did one thing one month, that means you have to cross it off a checklist or something and that is just not the case. It takes fully fertile couples with ideal numbers, doing nothing to sway, an average of 3-6 months to get pregnant.

So you don't even know that every 3 days can't or won't work for you, just that it didn't work in one month when you tried it. I'm not trying to be flip or discount your concerns in any way, it is that I have seen tons of people walk down this road and jump to conclusions on the basis of one month's results that something can't work for them when we do not even know that's the case.

Unfortunately my crystal ball is in the shop this week so I do not know what the right answer is. For best chance of pink, stick with every 3 days. if you want better odds of conception (bearing in mind that BFN may have nothing to do with your BD pattern and everything to do with your numbers) then add attempt at pos OPK.

[The Anchor]

I'll pipe up because my numbers were almost exactly the same as yours. And RE mentioned IUI, and because it was covered by insurance, I went for it. First round, chemical. Second, they had me trigger way too early, and I didn't ovulate at all. RE sheepishly said it's not a matter of me ovulating, I can do that fine on my own, it's the quality of the eggs. I'm 42. Trying naturally is my only option now.

I KNOW its my eggs. My uterus and tubes are in great shape. Fairly regular cycles. Monitored and only one cyst in 2 1/2 years (which cleared up on its own). SA says DH is GREAT. And both bubs are OHWs.

[Keshet]

I would like to add my opinion that I disagree that IUI is a scam. I did IUI with injectibles in order to get more eggs because of my older age and I did get pregnant twice with IUI. It did end up with miscarriage, but I did conceive. I ended up doing TI with different injectibles on my last try and it worked. But, I took that route simply because I had no insurance coverage and it was purely a financial decision. So I think that if you are talking about woman's age as the limiting factor success will have more to do with how many eggs you stimulate on your particular medication protocol than the IUI procedure--unless the issue is related to sperm function.

[maidentomother]

Keshet, it was almost certainly the injectables that got you pregnant, NOT the IUIs. That's another reason IUI seems better than it is, bc it's often paired with the first time use of injectables. It's more/better eggs that improve your adds, nothing to do with sperm. Drs are just locked into this rigid formula bc most don't think outside the box or question things adequately.

[Keshet]

I agree that it was the injectibles that did the trick in my case, but both the Iui and TI worked to get the sperm in the right place. I didn't do any worse with IUI. In some ways, It was helpful for me to have the timing more closely watched in the IUI cycle. Also, it was harder for ensure that DH was in the right mood to do TI at the right time when there wasn't a doctor overseeing it. But thankfully it all worked out in the end.

[HealthyGirl]

Keshet did you ever do femara/clomid with TI?

What method gave you your BFP?
Also did your RE run any tests and would love to know your numbers if you don't mind sharing.

Thx


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[HealthyGirl]

Sorry for asking this from you Keshet. You previously messaged me about it. Ignore my post.


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[Keshet]

Sorry, I didn't see this until now. Let me know if you have more questions.