How do you decide when to move on (without your DG)?

[LacePrincess]

So just wanted to know from everyone, from those who are still trying and those who have wrapped up their TTC years, just how do you know when you should close the door and move on when you still haven't got your DG?

My best friend worries for me at what point it becomes an unhealthy obsession, that I'm going too far because I'm obsessed with chasing my DG. At what point is enough, enough. Am I going to know? Or will I not see it in time to know when to step back?

So far we have been trying again since fall of 2012. We now have had a failed HT IVF, many months of swaying/ttc with nothing, my ovulation went astray this past year, and two losses. I'm turning 36 this year and I can *hear* the clock ticking down. Every year that goes by increases pregnancy risk and risk to the baby. I'm not ready to give up yet, but now we're working with an RE for frigging infertility, and I'm starting to enter the definition of recurring loss too. Yikes.

Now we're talking about trying IVF again, and now it's not just for GS, but just to get preggo at all. That's pretty darned scary. I know I said that we can throw another $50k at it, but am I going to be able to stop even then? The stubborn side of me just doesn't know when to give up. Already without doing ART at the moment it's a tough road to hoe logistically, what with more testing, and scans to check my ovulation, and bloodwork month after month. And that's without a bfp.

I haven't lost hope, yet, but I do want to mentally know that I can stop when I SHOULD stop, yk? At the moment, I'm not sure I know how to pull the plug or where the line has to be drawn. I have said many times that the door closes for good at 40. But then my RE will say something like, oh even after 40 you can still try, and suddenly I perk up again. So I'm not sure I will be able to walk away unless something really drastic happened, like a forced hysterectomy or something. Because there's always donor eggs and donor embryos too.

So, how did you move on without your DG? Did you find peace, or did you regret it? If you haven't moved on yet, what's your criteria for calling it done, and if that time comes do you really think you'll be able to let go?

[True Blue]

For me I maxed out my number and then went for one more!! It's crazy how hard it is to give up especially when you feel you are giving up at the very moment it might work!?!? Darn hope.
My DH has drawn the line very firmly with this last time - I have also drawn the line.
I have been "trying to sway" to conceive blue since 2005 :holysheep:

Strangely I'm happy for this baby just to be, I'm not going to be upset with another DD and I think at some point in the last 2 years I reached acceptance of my family and even as far as to wonder why I ever felt so strongly in the first place.

I guess it just happened - that said it took over my life for a long time before it did.

[djmommy]

Hi Lace! I am truly so sorry to hear of you loss and this long hard journey that you have been on. It does get to the point to where it becomes an obsession and it is all we can think about. It has definitely happened to me this time around, especially since we have had NO issues conceiving any other children. I did not start out swaying. I just wanted another baby. It took my DH a good year and a half to decide he wanted another one. So I have a tiny bit of resentment there because a lot of time was wasted and my fertility has declined so much. Then my dream of having a little girl started and it became where I really wanted a girl, would be fine with a boy but probably heartbroken not ever having a daughter. So I started swaying. After about 8 months of swaying and RE appts and procedures and not one BFP I had to really reevaluate everything and check my motives. I am a Christian and for me my faith in God became lost in all of this TTC. And my infertility made me truly realize that it truly did not matter whether I had a boy or a girl, just a BABY!! I am actually kinda set on having a boy now because I have changed my lifestyle back and it is mostly boy friendly, but in all honesty...it does not matter. I have finally reached the point where I can say that and truly mean it. This is actually the first month we tried when BDing did not fell pressured or stressed!! I am not ready to give up. FOR ME.....I know that my faith in God will help me to know when it is time to stop. I don't feel like that yet. I am 39 going on cycle 22 and each month of nothing makes it harder and harder, so I feel your pain. I know the desire to have a baby all too well and it is devastating when it does not happen. SO our approach it very casual right now. I have been trying to focus on my family because I know they got neglected during my "obsession". I am not sure anything helps but just wanted to share where I am at. If I remember correctly, your hormone testing all came back pretty well. I know you will have your THB. Sometimes we just have to wait...as hard as it is. I know in my life that God's timing is perfect and may not line up with mine so I have to wait...SIGH...

Hugs to you!

[Pink rose 76]

Hi laceprincess!
You've seen my signature. I actually started the ball rolling with this journey back in June 2011. I first contacted a uk dr who liased with savvas. The plan was to go feb 2012 but then hubby thought family may think it was weird going for a big holiday that time of year so we went in July. But cos of cost went to Dogus. Hubby was annoyed it didn't work and said no more. So we swayed and got pregnant twice but both were miscarriages; late on.

I then persuaded hubby to go again but had to wait till July last year and then the rest has just been a roll coaster.

I'm at the crossroads of do I have decent enuff eggs to do another cycle? I doubt it now as I'm 38 and yes hitting 40 is my limit but whether I'll be saying that then I don't know.

I am seriously up for donor if I can find out enuff at clinic r and then it's a straight forward fet. Theoretically. But like you I cannot take my mind off this and it has got worse with my last bfn. I really want our girl and don't feel complete without her running around.

I'm sorry I'm not much help but just wanted you to know you're not on your own most of us feel like you do. If you have the cash and hubby is willing that is even better. I don't have the cash and hubby has definitely said no to more. Which has caused endless arguments and disruption to our family. But I still can't let go. Crazy but I feel like I've given her so much already I can't give up now.

I wish you luck with you next IVF Hun. You are still young don't worry and Go get your little girl xx

[mandyp85]

Hi lace. I don't know if I can be of much help as I haven't been through what you have but I think maybe you will just know deep down in your heart when you have had enough and are ready to draw the line. Although you have been through the mill and have had a really hard time, the fact you are so conflicted says to me that you are not ready yet. My sister in law has just finished her last round of clomid and it was not successful for her this time, she has said she will no longer try and has thrown herself into buying a new house (she is 39, nearly 40) Everybody has their own limits and she has found a way to distract herself. Is there any way of you taking a break to relax and try to work things out without any pressure? You sound like you need some time. I really do feel for you and I wish I could do something to help. I will keep everything crossed for you that things work out for you ❤

[LacePrincess]

Thanks all. :)

Well the thing is.....I don't think I know where to draw the line. I once upon a time thought I did, but now it seems I just keep moving the goalposts. I once said 36 and we're done. Well obviously not! Now I'm saying 40, but if those darned RE's say there's still hope, I would latch on and keep going. I know it. :(

Except that RE's have their own agenda. I know they don't really care if I try and fail and try and fail, they still get to make money off of me!! So it's really hard and yet I grab onto any hope they give me. But they have their own agenda.

I'm not quite panicking yet, however......time is running out. It feels like the last leg of a marathon. I'm exhausted but there's no quitting now.

The thing is, it's all very much worth it *if* I get my DG. But there are no guarantees. I have read waaaaay too many infertility and loss stories at this point to have any more rose tinted glasses. Sometimes life is just spectacularly unfair and you can try and try and work and work and throw tonnes of money at it and it STILL doesn't work. And sometimes you have to accept that and be able to close that door. At this point I don't know if I'm going to be able to do that when time comes.

Well, maybe it'll be easier when I am 40, since at least I'll be out of babymaking years pretty much and so will all our acquaintances.

[XXforhubby]

I know right now you feel you'll keep moving goal posts if there is hope. I get that- you're not ready to let go yet. I do think you'll know when the time comes.

My DH and I were talking about this in the middle of the night (DS2 is either cutting his 2yr molars or is sick). He said that he only wants to try for a year after DS3 is born. For him, not trying/not preventing at first and then better timed BDing thereafter is all he wants to do. If it happens great; if it doesn't then he is fine closing the door and chalking it up as it is not meant to be. Granted I'll only be swaying, but he doesn't want to pursue HT.

Now if it were me and we had three girls and I didn't have and DS's, well I couldn't say the same. I would be in your boat saying/feeling the same things.

I do think/believe you will know when you are ready to be done when you get there. Until then, I'll keep hoping and praying for you! Huge hugs honey!!


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[LacePrincess]

Thanks XX. I think that makes sense.....and no we're not ready to give up yet. Right now our plan is to keep trying on the Femara in the fall, do the tests my RE is willing to do (I do hate that he's being so arrogant and patronizing and it feels like I have to fight him, I don't get why he refuses to test for clotting issues if I'm willing to pay for it!!). Then if no luck by Xmas we will give IVF/PGS another go but a really good one. We will do 2-3 retrievals to batch hopefully a dozen 5 day embryos, and fx for the best.

If that doesn't work out we'll keep trying without costly intervention as long as we're in the mood to try. At least, that's the plan today, lol.

[sugarNspice]

No one can tell you what to do, because no one knows better than you what's in your own heart, and how much (pain, financial cost, disappointment, hope) you can tolerate.

I can tell you that I did not give up, despite multiple miscarriages. I had two daughters, wanted another baby, and had always wished for a single-gender family. I swayed, got pregnant easily, and had losses. I did fertility testing, and Clomid. Got pregnant easily again, and lost the baby (the girl I had always dreamed of) at 18 weeks.

We did all the pre-testing for HT, and I did two IUIs (did not get pregnant either time) to qualify for insurance coverage for IVF (so we could have done PGD, and paid only for the PGD portion of the expenses). Then we switched insurances, and lost the IVF coverage. I got pregnant again, without Clomid, or IUI, or any help from the RE, and lost the baby early on, again. I became depressed. I consulted with a Reproductive Immunologist who told me that I should be sure to use birth control, because without treatment from him (more expensive than IVF with PGD) I would never carry to term. I decided to give up. I decided not to give up. I decided I did not want to live through any more reproductive craziness. I decided I did not want to live without hope for another baby, regardless of gender. I decided to stop swaying, but kept swaying anyway.

On my 39th birthday, I got a faint BFP that is now my youngest daughter. She is healthy and smart. I think I love her a little more than I ever believed I was capable of loving anything or anyone. Every day I am grateful that I have her. This gratitude pervades my experience of parenting her--I am always aware of how lucky I am, even when I am exhausted or frustrated or pulled in too many different directions at once by the competing demands of my children.

Nothing makes me happier--every day--than the fact that I did not give up. Nothing that I've ever done with my life seems more meaningful.

But I cannot promise that this will be your experience, or even tell you that it is likely. I can only advise you to take care of yourself, to do whatever will keep you sane and healthy. If it is yoga or mediation or swimming or therapy or time with friends or family or a support group--if it keeps you grounded it needs to be your priority. And then listen to yourself. Acknowledge your uncertainty, the strength of your desires, the power of your wishes, the depth of your fears. You can only do what seems best for you each day, even if that keeps changing.

I wish you luck!

[LacePrincess]

sugarNspice, I thank you so much from the bottom of my heart for sharing your journey. It means so much to hear from someone on the other side of the trenches!

I am taking it day by day, week by week, and doing my best not to look too far ahead. Not to hope too much, but also not to assume the worst too much either. The silver linings I have found is that I am amazed at how so far, I have been able to reset, regroup, and try again. I find it amazing that my marriage has not suffered, that we have been stronger for the hardships. The latest loss has brought me even closer to my boys and shown me what empathetic wonderful young men they are.

So it's not all doom and gloom!

Your story speaks to me, a lot. I'm not sure where mine will end, but I know that I if I fall off the horse, I will cry and mourn a bit, but I'm pretty stubborn and hard headed. I know I will get up, brush it off, try again. And each time I am a stronger and more resilient person for it. We might have to step back and regroup, maybe take a break from the insanity of fertility treatments, but we won't quit as long as there's still hope.

[trifecta]

I think there will always be a biological drive for more children as long as we are even potentially able. It's just never going to be a clear, comfortable decision but it sounds like for now you are still committed to trying. I guess the question is: if you don't end up with your daughter will you find solace in having done all you could to make that dream come true?

In my case I've ruled out HT so I haven't contemplated its issues as deeply as you have. I don't have any bio-ethical problems with it and think everyone is the best judge of their own situation. For us spending that much money would deprive my existing children of experiences and security. I come from a large-ish lower-middle-class family where everything had to stretch and I feel pretty clear about not wanting to do that again.

I'm 90% sure we're done and even without deeply considering HT it was a hard decision. It really came down to very practical considerations for me, the main one being that I suffer from depression and although I am in therapy and feeling better I spent the first two years after my son's birth in a haze of emotional pain. I just can't lose any more of the kids' childhood to depression. When it's at its worst I'm nowhere near the kind of mother I hope to be. I love my younger son and bonded well with him immediately but I just didn't have the energy to talk or sing or make happy expressions at him as much as I did with my oldest, and I feel guilty because I think that is part of why he is such a timid child. I've been prone to depression throughout my life but pregnancy and the postpartum period definitely exacerbate it.

I'm 39 and I question my decision not to try again all the time but I don't see myself changing my mind. I see myself gradually adapting to the family I have and little by little putting it behind me.

[LacePrincess]

Trifecta, thank you. :) I agree with everything you say. For sure a priority for me as well is being fair to my sons. If I felt like this journey was starting to take away from them, I would stop. It's not fair.

Financially, thankfully, we are at a place where we can afford to try IVF a few more times. But we do have to put a hard cap on it for sure. We certainly don't plan on going into bankruptcy or credit card debt or anything else fiscally irresponsible to keep cycling. We're pretty lucky that with DH's career, he will be more comfortable financially with every year that goes by, so I'm pretty lucky that we can afford to not worry about our financial stability in the future.

As to whether I can find peace and closure if my journey ends without my DG, to be honest, I don't know. :( I sure hope so! I'm sure if it comes to that day I will manage it, probably with a whole lot of therapy, lol. I am glad that I did savour every moment of DS3's babyhood/toddlerhood as at the time we weren't sure we were going for baby #4. So I definitely didn't waste a moment of DS's baby years at least.

[atomic sagebrush]

Sometimes I think how much easier this all would have been if we would have stopped with 2, or 3, or 4. God knows I wouldn't trade her for the world but our lives would just be easier now. They really would. I look at some of the ladies that I started this journey with back in 2008 and their youngest are 7 1/2 years old now and they look like they're having a blast. They travel, the kids are doing all these neat activities, they go out with their husbands and post pictures of margaritas. I"m in debt up to my eyeteeth and have to work constantly and have hardly any time or money to enjoy my kiddos. My husband and I are at each others' throats because everything is hard all the time. I get up every day and it feels like I work a series of miracles and stay awake all night worrying (and being kicked by my daughter who is still in our bed at age 3) I also sometimes feel that my two oldest boys have been basically left high and dry because of this dream - I really can't parent them in the way that they deserve, and they do still need some parenting even as adults. If you would have ever told me back in the day that I'd all but kick them out the door at the age of 23 and 19 totally self-supporting, because I had a passel of other kids to take care of I wouldn't have believed it, but that's pretty much how it went. :/


Now, the question is, would I have been so consumed with GD if I hadn't had her and would that not have affected my life and it probably would, but I have also found that people make their peace with it when the door is really closed. It's the possiblity that is so haunting. I even know a lady who had moved on with her three boys and had a girl oops and was actually unhappy about it because she had to start up with the mommy thing again, you know?

So - while I would never change anything and have no regrets, I can see how the "chase" even when successful holds the potential to wreck not only your life, but lots of other people's in the meantime. And I haven't gone to the lengths that some have.

[LacePrincess]

AS, thanks very much for your perspective. It really isn't always going to be a fairytale ending even if I get my DG - it's reality after all, not a Disney movie.

I do think if we continue to chase another baby, and hopefully my DG, I will be going to therapy - regularly. I'm an obsessive type and now with my infertility challenges I'm seeing it as a gauntlet thrown down by Mother Nature. So now it's like this challenge I HAVE to beat. And I realize that that is perhaps not the healthiest way of looking at it!!

I too am concerned about being fair to my other kids! I already do feel like it's taken away from them a bit in the past few years of trying and swaying and HT. And if we continue with TTC when we're now needing fertility treatments, that's going to potentially affect them even more. It's totally unacceptable to me to negatively affect my living children chasing a future child who might never come into being.

For now, me and DH are on the same page. I do think that if he ever says we're done, that's enough, then I will be done too. (With lots of counseling perhaps, lol). But definitely my marriage and my boys are far more important than TTC for another, if it comes down to having to choose.

[trifecta]

I have also found that people make their peace with it when the door is really closed. It's the possiblity that is so haunting.

When I look back on other disappointments in my life that at the time completely consumed me none of them now seem at all important. I'm hoping that one day this will be how I feel about it.

[LacePrincess]

ITA that it's an obsession that drives me in a lot of ways. But hey, I'm an obsessive person! ;)

Recently have taken up my piano studies again (was a serious classical pianist as a child/teen, but burnt out), and working towards my professional performing certification. It's giving me a goal that's something OTHER than baby related to focus on. The reason for my renewed interest was because DS1 recently started to take lessons and it has really motivated me.

So something new to focus on at least!