Questions about Abstinence or frequent BD

[felecia13]

Hello-

Brand new here. Coming from another forum, where I have been pushed to try Shettles again. My second son was a shettles opp. so We are trying for our 3rd, and hoping for PINK!

Quick back story, we have been TTC for almost 4 years, mostly doing shettles, but other times (50% of the time really) Just having frequent sex through O.

Recently we have been considering doing a 7 day abstinence and trying once we get a pos OPK, but in the other forum I have been a devout follower of for years says that sways boy.

We both are taking calcium, mag and cranberry. Drinking coffee (1-2 cups each), cranberry, no red meat. Eating eggs, veggies, chicken, turkey. Fruits are strawberries, apples. My PH is staying right at 5.5-6 Dh is 8.0. If that matters.

Any tips? Should we try frequent sex, with a 2 day cut off like others suggested, or abstinence?

Any help would be appreciated. Thanks!!

[mandyp85]

Hi and welcome. Over on this forum we have been getting great results just sticking to one attempt only during the fertile period, most of us have it at pos opk (as that gives good odds of conception) or dtd every four days which would also just give the one attempt. I believe we get 75% success with one attempt which goes down with any additional attempts. Frequency patterns don't seem to be adding much to a sway so you could have frequent PROTECTED bd until you got your pos opk and then have the one unprotected attempt. How old is your dh? As atomic does not recommend abstinence for men older than 35. Timing has been shown in studies not to work and one attempt has been shown to sway strongly pink through our results.
As for your diet most of us here follow the low everything diet, which is low calories, low protein, low fat, low nutrients. So most of us forgo the supplements (cal,mag and cran) but that is at your discretion. We also tend, on the le diet to go vegetarian.
There is a lot to read on this site so have a look around, I would tag some specific threads for you but cant do so from my phone. I'm sure atomic will pop to this thread and give you some more advice, she is fab. Good luck ��

[mandyp85]

Forgot to say the limits for calories are 1500-1800, protein 40g-50g and fat 25g-60g. Most of us spread that over 2 meals but 3 is also fine. We don't snack and most of us skip breakfast. Best results come from doing 12+ weeks on the diet. Some of us do exercise, 60 mins at least 4 times a week or go couch potato, moderate exercise sways blue. Hope that all helps. I'm guessing you have come over from Ingender and I don't know how they do things over there so just thought I would tell you what I have learnt here :)

[felecia13]

Forgot to say the limits for calories are 1500-1800, protein 40g-50g and fat 25g-60g. Most of us spread that over 2 meals but 3 is also fine. We don't snack and most of us skip breakfast. Best results come from doing 12+ weeks on the diet. Some of us do exercise, 60 mins at least 4 times a week or go couch potato, moderate exercise sways blue. Hope that all helps. I'm guessing you have come over from Ingender and I don't know how they do things over there so just thought I would tell you what I have learnt here :)

Yes, ingender. I feel like they are all over the place w results.

My dh is 31, im 30. Both used to heavily work out, im couch potato right now bc my rheumatoid arthritis flared.

I have been doing a low cal diet accidentally for a few months, lots and lots of veggies and fruits this summer bc i couldnt work out.

[felecia13]

So maybe this will help

Supposed to ovulate on cd 17, so october 10 for me.

We dtd last night. Oct 2.

Should we dtd again in 4 days, then again at the pos opk? Or wait for te pos opk, no releases, just abstain?

[mandyp85]

I never went onto ingender and I'm so glad because I've heard that before about the results being all over the place and a lot of what they advise for swaying girl is actually said to sway boy on this site, I have a lot of faith in atomic and what she says as she backs up everything with studies etc and the results here are good.
When you used to work out was it cardio or weights or both? For girl swaying we don't do weights only cardio as we want to lower our muscle mass not increase it (I know you said you are not currently exercising but I wanted to put that out there)
With regards as to when to dtd do whatever is least stressful for you, myself and dh abstained then had one attempt when I got my pos opk as we found that way easier but some people get less stressed doing every 4 day method but don't do every 4 days and then again at pos opk as you may well end up having 2 attempts in fertile window. Either do every 4 days OR one attempt at pos opk. If you go the opk route you can bd PROTECTED as much as you like as long as you stick to the ONE unprotected bd at pos opk. Hope that makes sense. Frequent release, abstain etc don't seem to be doing anything to help a pink sway, its the one attempt that works well.

[atomic sagebrush]

Hi felecia!

Most of us on here have 2,3,4 or more Shettles opposites ourselves and the research does not support Shettles working at all. http://genderdreaming.com/forum/gender-swaying-general-discussion/7691-trouble-timing.html

Under normal circumstances, we do not do frequent sex with cutoff. Our stats have shown pretty clearly that one attempt is swaying strongly pink for reasons that we do not comprehend. One attempt, regardless of timing, (with or without abstinence and other stuff like that) has gotten 70-75% for us. This drops to 60% with 2 attempts and all the way down into the 40th% with 3. I got my girl with one attempt late at night the night before O day (right in Shettles window) after getting 3 of 4 boys with cutoffs.

If you have been trying for !!!! 4 years !!! then all bets are off. You have no business doing Shettles or abstain and anyone who is telling you to continue doing that for swaying after TTC that long is not acting in your best interests. Drop abstain YESTERDAY and start having DH release on his own or with you, with a condom, every 2-4 days throughout the cycle. This will help make nice amoutns of healthy sperm. He needs to drop cranberry and switch to Olive Leaf Extract 500 mg daily starting right away. If he's doing licorice, peppermint, soy, etc those need to go too. No hot bath or tighty whiteys.

Abstain had really gotten disappointing results for us and it really cuts odds of conception so no matter what else you do, wave it "buh-bye" and don't even give it a second thought. Have hubby do that regular release every 2-4 days even when you aren't actively TTC, this makes nice healthy sperm for up to 72 days in advance of when you are TTC!

Frequent sex thru O is surprisingly not always the best way to get pregnant. If hubby's swimmers take a long time to regenerate, he can end up "using up" most of the swimmers long before O day even approaches and he's shooting nothing but dust by the time the egg shows up. For people having trouble conceiving, we typically have them have unprotected sex every 4th day (or 3rd day if you're in a hurry) plus one more attempt at positive OPK. It's slightly more blue friendly than one attempt is, but after this long it's time to stop messing around and conceive. If you're ready to stop swaying all together, the best way is by using SMEP and you can find directions for that here Sperm Meets Egg Plan (http://www.pregnancyloss.info/sperm_meets_egg_plan.htm)

Are you doing anything else like the douching and other jazz that they recommend?? Douching, jellies, antihistamine HAVE TO GO NOW. pH hasn't worked for us either with most of us having pH opposites going both ways. http://genderdreaming.com/forum/gender-swaying-general-discussion/11684-ph-pickle.html

after 4 years, diet is the least of the things you should be concerned about. That's not the diet that we use here but honestly, after almost 4 years your diet is really irrelevant here, we need to GET YOU PREGNANT!

[atomic sagebrush]

Forgot to say the limits for calories are 1500-1800, protein 40g-50g and fat 25g-60g. Most of us spread that over 2 meals but 3 is also fine. We don't snack and most of us skip breakfast. Best results come from doing 12+ weeks on the diet. Some of us do exercise, 60 mins at least 4 times a week or go couch potato, moderate exercise sways blue. Hope that all helps. I'm guessing you have come over from Ingender and I don't know how they do things over there so just thought I would tell you what I have learnt here :)

felecia, with RA you will do better on "atomic fertility diet" in this thread. For reasons we don't know, people with autoimmune disorders like RA have more boys and this diet can be done gluten free and that may help your RA. http://genderdreaming.com/forum/gender-swaying-general-discussion/9052-swaying-under-special-circumstances-part-3-pcos.html Even though this is a PCOS diet, the atomic fertility diet works for lots of different health concerns and is good for egg quality which may help you get pregnant more easily.

Fruits and vegetables are good for TTC a girl and are allowed on LE-type diets (atomic fertility diet is a variation of LE Diet)

[atomic sagebrush]

Have you guys been seen by a doctor for fertility evaluation???

The reason I ask is twofold - firstly because most of the people we've had on here who were not pregnant within a year's time found out they were dealing with male factor infertility which can develop at any time and so your hubby could have this even without knowing. And secondly, anyone who's been TTC for 4 years would be able to get some Clomid or Femara which is a good pink sway tactic. :)

[felecia13]

Have you guys been seen by a doctor for fertility evaluation???

The reason I ask is twofold - firstly because most of the people we've had on here who were not pregnant within a year's time found out they were dealing with male factor infertility which can develop at any time and so your hubby could have this even without knowing. And secondly, anyone who's been TTC for 4 years would be able to get some Clomid or Femara which is a good pink sway tactic. :)

Ok More back story. Yes, 4 years in december. We started trying when our 2nd son was 6 months old, because it took 18 months with him.

2011-2012- "trying" aka off BCP, not charting, just, what happens, Happens! Nothing happens.
Mid 2012, (7 months of TTC) periods stop all together, go on BCP until early 2013
Feb-2013 stop BCP again, periods don't resume until September 2013, even with Provera. Referred to RE. Begin clomid in October.
Jan 2014, Insurance changes, no longer covers RE, back to OB. Clomid for 3 cycles on, 3 off due to cysts.
June 2014-PREGNANT!!! Miscarriage in July 2014, at 8 weeks.

August 2014-Pregnant again (Weren't trying, condom broke) chemical pregnancy.

Clomid Oct-december, get pregnant, miscarry at 14 weeks in February 2015.

My insurance finally agrees that after 3 miscarriages, I need to see an RE, again, and start in March 2015, RA flares in April, have to take a break and start new meds April-July.

So, now August, And Sept, we had sex either every day or every other from end of AF to O and through. Nothing.

I go on Oct 6 for my sonohystogram. Then we start treatment if I dont get preg this month. Husband has never been tested, both REs said that he didnt need to be bc he has gotten me knocked up so many times.


Frequent BD is hard bc he is a Regional Manager, and is gone A LOT. Either out of state, or home very very late.

Both boys, we always had frequent sex through O.

He can stop cranberry, I have always been on cranberry for my kidneys, I have a lot of issues due to my disease (RA, and suspected Lupus or Mixed Connective Tissue Disease)

back to FR, he will NOT masturbate, the whole thing freaks him out. He used to , a lot and now that I noticed he wont, and we cant BD as much, we aren't getting pregnant, so i wonder if thats an issue too.

No douche, no antihistamine, no jelly (never use KY, i get sore if I do) no jump and dump, no lime tampons. Just cranberry, and new this month, calcium and lots of milk.

[felecia13]

working out, only intense cardio, 6-10 miles of fast uphill walking/jogging a day on the treadmill.

[atomic sagebrush]

Ok so what I'd have you guys do is proceed with the followup testing (and I"m really terribly sorry for your losses).

Sex every day from AF-O is not good success rates for pregnancy for the reasons I mentioned above, and you should either do every 3 or 4 days plus one more attempt at pos OPK, OR the SMEP plan I linked. I would very much suspect that sex AF-O may be playing a big part in a lack of conceiving. He doesn't need to masturbate at all. Just have those attempts every 3-4 days or do the SMEP plan both of which do not need to involve mastubating for DH.

If you need cranberry for your health, carry on. :agree: that is a different circumstance than using it for swaying. Do have DH switch over to OLE, we have gotten great results with it and unlike cran it will not cut odds of conception and may even help boost sperm health.

If you have kidney issues I strongly advise against calcium supps. They are really hard on the kidneys. And for swaying pink I would NOT up milk intake, it has sooo many nutrients. Now that having been said full fat milk is great for fertility so I'd have you on one serv. full fat dairy a day but only if you tolerate it ok. I have had several clients with RA who could not do dairy foods. I do not think the data supports the calcium = pink idea and the best study ever done on diet showed more boys conceived to moms with higher cal intake. (I also got my girl without the stuff after 4 boys eating tons of it and with my last two I was on cal supps, with my 4th I was doing the old-school very high cal supp intake and he is a boy!)

[atomic sagebrush]

working out, only intense cardio, 6-10 miles of fast uphill walking/jogging a day on the treadmill.

This is ideal for a pink sway and will sway a LOT harder than the timing/frequency jazz which doesn't work!! We've gotten great results with cardio for pink.

[felecia13]

Awesome!!

I did have to stop calcium, made me sick! With milk, its one glass a day max, bc i really hate the stuff lol. But i can TOTALLY stop it anytime. Yuck.

IG really pushed milk, and calcium and eggs.

I have been making blueberry/strawberry smoothies each morning with cranberry juice (i drinka lot of cranberry normally) is that still ok, for the le doet? And other drinks, only water. I cant skip breakfast bc of my meds.

I will get the ole tonight. I appreciate it so much!! We dicussed it and are going to do the sperm meets egg this month.

Thank you again!!!!!

[felecia13]

Update!

My RE called me, while we were BD (its been two days, so FR) We BD unprotected because this morning I got a positive OPK! I was supposed to O on the 10, so i thought but I must have totally screwed up my chart. So I re entered my chart and said O on the 7th, so totally makes sense. We had sex on Friday night, and again Today (monday) would that screw up by girl sway? I would love to just get pregnant of course, but a girl is just the cherry on top (I have 3 brothers, one of those brothers living in my basement, 2 boys, 3 boy dogs and a hunting husband. I need estrogen)

But the RE called, for my sono tomorrow and to tell me my FSH was great, my clotting factors are all negative and my AMH was a 5.5, which is great.


Excited!!! :)

[has2gentlemen]

Likely that will be fine, because if you o tomorrow or Wednesday (usually 12-36 hours after positive opk), there won't be much of anything sticking around from Friday but it will give today's sperm a chance to get the egg and get ready. An e4d attempt would have you in for Friday and Tuesday anyway, so Friday and Monday isn't too bad. Good luck!


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[felecia13]

That's what I figured, I did Jump and dump on Friday, only bc a 4 year old came a knockin!

checked my cervix, it was tight and some what closed this morning, and is very open now. So I am thinking tomorrow/Weds as well!

:)

[atomic sagebrush]

1 glass of milk is ok, that totally fits in most people's limits for the day (as long as it's not a Big Gulp!)

Yeah I started off on IG back in 2007-2010 and got my 4th boy doing the tons of calcium. :/ All my boys have been me on a dairy heavy diet and I got my girl without calcium supps or dairy so I can guarantee it's not a magic bullet.

Don't worry about skipping breakfast if you can't, that's totally fine. :agree: a glass of cran is fine!

Your O day can move and it's possible to O sooner than you think, so fine to have attempt whenever a pos OPK shows up even if you aren't "supposed" to O that early. BD on Fri and then again on Monday is not the strictest type of pink sway but at the same time, an attempt on Fri. with pos OPK on Monday would be VERRRY slim odds of pregnancy so I'd absolutely have had you do what you did and have attempt that day. :agree:

cAn you clarify what you mean by "it's been 2 days so FR?"