change in luteal phase possible?

[gizmo77]

or is fertility friend just doing their best?

ive started charting since feb (temping since march) and up until my june cycle, my LP was always 13. then after the L-arg ordeal, FF said i Ovulated cd21, but i manipulated the temp on cd 23 so that it showed O on cd 23 since that would make my LP 13 days (to keep my data consistent) and i also knew 100% that cd23 was the day i DID ovulate. i had very sure-fire body symptoms, ew, ovulation pressure/pain (like i normally did before the l-arg).

then this july cycle (no l-arg), my temps are gradually rising on the days that i could have Ovulated so FF will change my O day to whatever i place my last EWCM on. on cd17 i had the MOST ewcm, and cd 18 there was SOME but not as much and it was significantly less CM overall, however i did have twinges (not the same pelvic pressure i typically feel on days of O).

but im not sure exactly what day i O'd. i put ewcm present on cd18 so that it would show a 13 day LP (otherwise FF shows my LP more than 13 days), but im wondering what things can change LP (make it longer). diet? exercise? or is it unlikely? and is it just that my body/cycle suddenly changed to having less ewcm the day of O. or could i have O'd in the wee hours of the morning on cd18 when i was sleeping? thus barely any cm during the day when i was awake.

bc normally ido have the MOST ewcm on O day then dry up pretty fast the next day with perhaps spurts of ew. i also know that O pain doesnt always mean i O'd.

confused and disappointed that i cant accurately predict!!!
heres my chart:



My Ovulation Chart (http://www.fertilityfriend.com/home/343a65/)

[Flava]

I don't know gizmo...lot's of things can change our O day.I think diet and exercise can do it too.I always have most EWCM before O and less and O day.You don't use OPK's to help find O day?
But why do you change temp and cm signs and so on FF just so it puts your O on CS13?:suprise: I want to know when I really O'd and if that not on the same day every month then not.

I only see on this chart that you are on CD2. I don't see last month chart.

[gizmo77]

hmm..did you scroll down to see the 2nd chart? its titled july 28. whereas the first chart on top says aug 28. ill try again.

no i dont use opks to test yet. i will this month and in oct (month of attempt). just bc ive used them before and just dont understand. i also think its for ppl who just want to get pg in their fertile window not necessarily for us who want to know EXACTLY the day we O. i dunno. maybe i just dont understand.

actually i change temp and signs on fertility friend just to keep my luteal phase at 13 days (so the day after i ovulate till af). not on cd13. i usually ovulate on cd 17-19.

guess im just mad bc i was on a steady roll, then larg screwed my "pattern" but i guess the cycle can change at any time right?

here it is again:


My Ovulation Chart (http://www.fertilityfriend.com/home/343a65/)

[LolaInLove]

L-Arg made my LP go from 13 days down to 11! That was when I was taking FertileCM to be exact. My doc put me on progesterone anyway since I'm old as the hills, but without the L-Arg, it went back up to 13 days natually anyway.

[atomic sagebrush]

Honestly I think that's A HUGE STEP in the right direction. I think the diet and supps are giving your body all the raw materials it needs to make plenty of progesterone and giving you a nice long LP and recovering from the l-arg. It is normal for your cycle to change it up, esp. when you're on a new diet. I wouldn't be at all surprised if your LP has gone to 14 days (and correct me if I'm wrong but isn't that what FF was saying??) 14 days is better for conception than 13 days, so that's good news.

Some of us have found that when our estrogen goes up, we have EWCM for a couple days even AFTER O. I suspect that you may be having EWCM continuing through O and maybe even the next day. That would explain a lot...if you normally dry up on O day but now you're not, wouldn't that fit right in with what your temps are doing??

I would trust my temps way more than O symptoms. I know it's hard to believe but you just can't go off of symptoms for ovulation. They aren't reliable. Some months I have horrible ovulation pains, some months not at all, on different CD and everything, and I'm sure everyone on this site can testify to the same. One month I had horrible O pains and it was a fake O!!

Both OPK and temps are unpredictable, but at least with OPK they're unpredictable in advance of ovulation, if that makes any sense. The problem with temping is you only really know after the fact when you Oed. At least with the OPK you get a warning that it's probably coming soon, KWIM??

[atomic sagebrush]

L-Arg made my LP go from 13 days down to 11! That was when I was taking FertileCM to be exact. My doc put me on progesterone anyway since I'm old as the hills, but without the L-Arg, it went back up to 13 days natually anyway.

Lola, you aren't as old as the hills YET! Trust me, I'm as old as the mountains!!! ;)

Thanks for sharing that info, so we do know for a fact that going off of l-arg CAN extend the LP. Very helpful!!!

[gizmo77]

but this recent cycle, my temps were gradually going up. so the day of O could be any of the 3 days that i had my last ewcm. so whatever i input as the day of my last ewcm thats what FF says is teh day i O'd. so then the only thing i have to go by is symptoms. i cant even go by teh start of my next cycle bc now my LP has possibly changed. how am i supposed to predict O on my next and final cycle (attempt cycle)???? i guess just go with the day that i had the MOST ewcm? i dont know...esply now since i know i can get spurts of ewcm afterwards (which is what i got before l-arg too), but i could tell teh differnece bc of O pains and amount of ewcm and "feeling open" (cervix).

[gizmo77]

Honestly I think that's A HUGE STEP in the right direction. I think the diet and supps are giving your body all the raw materials it needs to make plenty of progesterone and giving you a nice long LP and recovering from the l-arg. It is normal for your cycle to change it up, esp. when you're on a new diet. I wouldn't be at all surprised if your LP has gone to 14 days (and correct me if I'm wrong but isn't that what FF was saying??) 14 days is better for conception than 13 days, so that's good news.

Some of us have found that when our estrogen goes up, we have EWCM for a couple days even AFTER O. I suspect that you may be having EWCM continuing through O and maybe even the next day. That would explain a lot...if you normally dry up on O day but now you're not, wouldn't that fit right in with what your temps are doing??

I would trust my temps way more than O symptoms. I know it's hard to believe but you just can't go off of symptoms for ovulation. They aren't reliable. Some months I have horrible ovulation pains, some months not at all, on different CD and everything, and I'm sure everyone on this site can testify to the same. One month I had horrible O pains and it was a fake O!!

Both OPK and temps are unpredictable, but at least with OPK they're unpredictable in advance of ovulation, if that makes any sense. The problem with temping is you only really know after the fact when you Oed. At least with the OPK you get a warning that it's probably coming soon, KWIM??

i normally dry up the day AFTER O. on O day i have theMOST..globs.hanging. sorry tmi! but if that was the case last cycle, then my LP is 14 days and i was under the impression that LP's NORMALLY stay the same..?

and for me, if i didnt manipulate FF, the cycle i did L-arg made my LP 15 days long. and i know for sure that O'd 2 days later (which made my LP 13 days). so this last cycle would be the 1st 14day long LP (since ive charted).

[atomic sagebrush]

For some reason, I feel like I am missing some critical piece of information on this thread. :/

Diet can def. lengthen LP. You can get EWCM even after O and the diet may make that more likely. LP's don't stay the same month after month, sometimes they are a little shorter or longer, it all depends on how quick the corpus luteum breaks down, when exactly you Oed, and whether you did anything that maybe made AF come on a few hours earlier (for some people, sex with orgasm, rasp. leaf tea, or taking blood thinners can trigger AF a little earlier than it would come on its own.)

I think that by using OPKs, at least you'll have a bit of warning of when you O, so regardless of whether your cycle is strange or different, you'll at least get a heads up of when it might happen. So whether you O on day 13 or 15, if you have a pos OPK on day 12 or day 14, that may let you know when to time your attempt.

[atomic sagebrush]

The other thing you can do is assume you will O on the earliest day you ever O (which seems to be CD 13, right??), have an attempt on that day, if you O on CD 14 your attempt would be one DBO which is still Shettles timing, then have another attempt on CD 15 to cover all the bases (you could O as late as CD 16 this way and still be within Shettles timing.). Or, you could attempt CD 12 and CD 14 if you wanted to to make sure that you could have one attempt the day before O (if you O on CD 13), an attempt right on O if you O on CD 14, and if you O on CD 15, you'd still have your attempt 1 DBO.

[gizmo77]

sorry im bad at explaining things :-(
the earliest ive O'd is cd17. latest cd 23. average is cd18

30-31 day cycles.

i assumed if LP s changed something was wrong bc everyone kept saying and ive always read LPs never change. rarely change.

[atomic sagebrush]

Well, in the experiences that I have had (helping people on IG and here) everyone's LP is always changing by a day or two, or even more in the case of someone who had a very short LP and then took supps to lengthen it.

I still kinda suspect that it's more likely your O day is changing rather than your LP and your O symptoms are changing as a result of swaying, so it's confusing you on when you're actually Oing.

[gizmo77]

okay. see i thought my LP was fine at 13. and i know my O day is always changing (cd17-18) but based on the amount of ew, im assuming i O'd with a an increase in LP days (14 days verse the regular 13 days). but who knows really? temps arent relaible, cm isnt, opks arent. i need a personal ovulation predictor expert. or an ultra sound machine. ;-) thanks!

[atomic sagebrush]

Well, in the experiences that I have had (helping people on IG and here) everyone's LP is always changing by a day or two, or even more in the case of someone who had a very short LP and then took supps to lengthen it.

I still kinda suspect that it's more likely your O day is changing rather than your LP and your O symptoms are changing as a result of swaying, so it's confusing you on when you're actually Oing.

I am sorry, I went back and reread this and I had forgot you were just talking about a change in LP from 13 days to 14. (for some reason I had 5 days in my mind, I think because I was reading that you Oed between CD 17 and CD 23 with 30 or 31 day cycles (so that would put you with LPs that were changing by as much as 5 days). But a change in LP from 13 days to 14 is totally possible and happens quite commonly.

[atomic sagebrush]

okay. see i thought my LP was fine at 13. and i know my O day is always changing (cd17-18) but based on the amount of ew, im assuming i O'd with a an increase in LP days (14 days verse the regular 13 days). but who knows really? temps arent relaible, cm isnt, opks arent. i need a personal ovulation predictor expert. or an ultra sound machine. ;-) thanks!

I corrected my other answer because I was not understanding what you were getting at. A change in LP from 13 days to 14 days between cycles is totally common and happens all the time.

My confusion was stemming from you saying you were ovulating anywhere from CD 17-CD 23 with 31 day cycles, which would put your LP changing as much as 5 days. In that case, it would be much more likely that O day was changing.

LP varying by one day - totally normal and happens all the time
LP varying by 5 days - your O day is probably what is really changing.

The only way to really know is an ultrasound machine but the good news is, you don't actually HAVE to know for sure. Just BD the next night after a pos OPK!

[gizmo77]

thank you, sorry for the confusion. i should have said in the last 7 mos that i have charted, the latest i O'd was cd23. the shortest was cd17. but even THOSE were ALL 13 day LPs. (i started with a long cycle, O'ing on cd23, just coming off of BF'ing. the other long cycle i had was with L-arginine). so typically O is cd17-18 with 30-31 day cycles.

thank you!

[atomic sagebrush]

I gotcha!

I'm sure you know this already but long cycles after BFing are totally normal and we all know about l-arg! :rolleyes:

Anyway I would not waste a moment's concern over the difference between 13 and 14 day LP, that is normal and can vary.