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atomic sagebrush

December 10th, 2015, 08:13 PM

At 34/35 despite the hoopla about advanced maternal age and all that, you DO have time to take a month to try and get your head right. I am not in your head of course so I can't totally say if this is the right move to make or not, but it would give you the advantage of more time to let things solidify swaywise. I never feel good about people who are not ok with another boy trying to run a "hurry up offense" because it really doens't give you the best possible shot. You also "talk like a boy mom" if that makes any sense, in that I can tell you've put a lot of thought and attention to detail into all this and I want you to have the best of all possible chances to have a successful sway because you may be at a bit more of a disadvantage than some just by your personality (because personality does seem to have some effect on sway outcomes).

Gender doesn't run in a family genetically. http://genderdreaming.com/forum/sperm-qualities/552-guess-what-men-make-50-50-x-y-sperm.html and “We only make boys!” :: Natural Gender Selection, IVF/PGD Experts | genderdreaming.com (http://www.genderdreaming.com/we-only-make-boys/)

Low sodium hasn't worked out for us as a sway tactic and most of us have given up on it. It can be much easier to stick to the diet overall if you let go on that one but that's at your discretion of course.

Cal-mag - that is also at your discretion. Many of us on this site got boys with Cal-mag so it's very easy for us to walk away from, but if you believe in it, including them in the form of supplements (rather than drinking a gallon of whole milk a day) is at your discretion.

Mint tea can delay or even stop ovulation so I would have you use this from AF-CD 14 or positive OPK whichever comes first, then take the rest of the month off.

I"m concerned because we are seeing 12 weeks or longer on diet, and while it does seem like you've been on some kind of diet that long I would love more specifics if you have them - like what exactly types of things are you eating, etc?? 1500-1800 cals a day?? 40-50 g protein? 30-60 g fat??? More, less?? I am a big believer in swaying safely so I want to be sure you havne't cut back too far.

:agree: exercise be sure you compensate by increasing calories or you risk stopping ovulation.

You do get used to the breakfast thing over time. That first week is a killer!!

:agree: iron and zinc and often prescribe those for people who've been on diet longer than 3-6 months. My preferred way of using them is 8-15 mg zinc, 18-30 mg iron 3x a week.

The D seems to be a big deal and I feel it is another reason to possibly wait a month.

Yogurt and cranberry juice are not good ways of preventing yeast infections. Yeast may sway pink or blue or swing back and forth between both extremes, we really aren't sure. I would use either some plain, unsweetened yogurt as a vaginal cream (and this sounds gross but it can be very soothing) to repopulate the area with the healthy microorganisms and/or the over the counter cream.

Cranberry juice is also concerning to me because it's a concentrated bunch of nutrients for NO benefit to the sway. In order for cranberry to potentially sway, it needs to be in a concentrated, medicinal form and not just some juice. Cran juice doesn't work and it may even sway blue by adding those nutrients. Additionally, we have tracked our results with cranberry supplements, and found them to be neutral at best, so even in that scenario where you're taking gobs of the stuff, it doesn't work anyway.

I would like to see you more at 1200-1600 mcg folic acid. 400 is not enough.

Oh and WELCOME to our site, BTW!! Nice to "meet" you!!

Faithinpink

December 11th, 2015, 07:31 AM

Hi complex , correct me if im wrong but some of ur diet is sounding to me to be a boyish type diet.. Also are you taking prenatals ? Cause prenatals totally sway BLUE, i know this cause i have taken them when ttc and they are all boys... and study also show this . Maybe best for you to read some of atomic essays as they are very helpful .
Take care xx

Faithinpink

December 11th, 2015, 07:53 AM

Folic acid is ok and very important though.. Just not prenatals

ksmom

December 11th, 2015, 12:39 PM

Personally I think the only reason why the 3 day cutoff seems to get more girls, is because you end up with one attempt in the fertile window which the stats on this site have shown to sway pink. The timing is a Shettles idea and has been debunked.

atomic sagebrush

December 11th, 2015, 06:27 PM

bump this for me, out of time today

sweetdream

December 11th, 2015, 06:55 PM

Or the 3 dat cut off has the same affect as one attemp in the fertile window.
And shettles could be on to something but just not read it right

(I know I got my sons with more then one attemp and dd with one)

ksmom

December 11th, 2015, 06:58 PM

While it may seem like timing sways, it doesn't. Really the best time to conceive is O-3, O-2, O-1 and to a lesser extent O day. If you're DTD on O-3 only, then that's swaying pink because it leaves one attempt in the fertile window AND because it's a few days out from ovulation, not as many sperm remain which sways pink as well. It seems like fewer sperm equals more girls but not always of course because there's always exceptions. There have been so many Shettles opposites that I have a hard time believing in it. O-3 does cut odds of conception more so than BD at pos. Opk which is what Atomic suggests since she wants best odds of pregnancy so we're not swaying for ages. I will say though that I did get pregnant with a 3 day cutoff first month TTC while swaying but baby didn't stick. I have a friend who had a 2 day cutoff and is about to have her daughter so I think it's more of it being number of attempts rather than the actual day. Of course if you want to include timing that's completely up to you. We all have to tweak our sways to suit us our own individual circumstances. :)

The advanced opks drive me bonkers. lol I'll get several days of high readings which is totally normal so don't worry if that's what happening. Clearblue says it's fine to get up to 8 before getting a peak reading. I do use that kind but I find the cheapie OPK sticks or the regular digital ones are easier.

Good luck! :)

Faithinpink

December 11th, 2015, 07:23 PM

Hey there is plenty of food ideas in dream members section and they are yummy. Xx

atomic sagebrush

December 12th, 2015, 05:22 PM

Hi Ksmom,

I agree that Shettles has been debunked. Yet, I can't help but notice that many of the studies DO demonstrate a consistently higher percentage of female babies conceived specifically and only with the three day cut-off, somewhere around 60%. There may be something hormonal happening three days before ovulation that we don't yet understand. It seems relatively promising when I look over other people's documented sways and check their results, but obviously it doesn't work for everyone. The biggest problem with the three day cut-off is that many people apparently can't get pregnant.

I'd like to try to do it using the Advanced Digital Ovulation Test from Clear Blue Easy that identifies your top four fertile days. However I noticed last month (while I was just in observation mode, not trying to actually get pregnant yet) it identified my top five fertile days which threw me off... I'll just have to do my best. However, I also want my kids to be close in age so if we don't get pregnant after a couple of months of cutoff I'm going to broaden my approach and try closer ovulation.

It is TOTALLY fine to do a 3 day cutoff if it floats your boat. It's just that we want that to be among the first things that you drop instead of keeping that till the bitter end while giving up on everything else. So many of us have 2,3,4 or more boys conceived with 3 day cutoffs that it's very easy for us to turn our backs on it. Starting off with 3 day cutoff is cool - starting off with 4-7 day cutoff like I've seen a lot of people do is not gonna work.

The studies where a)no external medication was used to induce ovulation (like Clomid) and b)people's O day was confirmed by professionals and NOT self-reported or charting and the professionals were not profiting from proving timing correct, and c) in studies where most of the people could stick to the program and not drop out (we have a fair number of studies where 300 people started it and only 30 finished because they couldn't stick to the program or couldn't get pregnant) did NOT find that. I've read dozens, if not hundreds of timing studies by this point and most of them are useless or misleading. In fact the reliable studies found 50-50 boys and girls conceived every day of the cycle, with even a teensy bump O-1 and O Day. And evolutionarily it makes no sense because if a boy didn't have enough nutrients to survive on Wednesday, he wouldn't on Thursday either and I just don't think that's how our body operates, that type of random fluke just doesn't evolve that way. But, it is 110% your sway your way and it isn't harmful so if you want to use it, at your discretion. :)

Re the Clearblue advanced, yes that thing gives everyone fits. We often see it going "high fertility" for 8 days without ever going to "peak", or just going straight to "peak" without the promised days of high. So jsut keep that in mind when you're using it.

atomic sagebrush

December 12th, 2015, 05:36 PM

minerals at your discretion, just like timing that's something that's way easier to give up once you've had opposites that way which many of us have had. Just so you know, I have it on authority from ladies who have actually done the Dutch program in the Netherlands that the LE Diet is actually quite similar to the types of foods they recommend so you're not hurting yourself by doing a primarily LE Diet but just keeping sodium low and taking cal-mag supps.

At BMI 19 I don' want you to lose any weight if you can avoid it. Keep eating what you need to keep your weight stable but switch over from animal/saturated fats to eating more Omega 6/vegetable sources, and decreasing protein/fat vs. carbs overall. Olive oil is a gray area and I'd probably have you switch over to something even worse LOL like canola or corn oil, but that's at your discretion (I kept on eating butter when I got my DD and still got her anyway)

Also want to be sure you know that vegetables are free and unlimited meaning you do not count them. This means you have more calories to play around with than you think you do.

You actually can have 2 OR 3 meals, just do whichever works for you. I have a fast metabolism and I would keel over dead on 2 meals a day practically. I ate at 10:30/11 ish, then again at 4 pm, then again before bed. it's still a long fast and much different from how I usually ate, which is like a Hobbit, all day every day.

atomic sagebrush

December 12th, 2015, 07:12 PM

The funny thing about the personality stuff is: no, there isn't, and trying to is worse than doing nothing.

When you take a step back it's clear that if the problem is being a bit of a detail oriented, high in control type of person, the solution is not to then launch a project to force yourself to change. It doesn't work, and in fact it's kind of chasing your tail really because trying to control your way into not being a control freak, is actually just an exercise in being a control freak (and that is in no way criticism, I'm right there with ya.)

What you have to do is cultivate (effortlessly and in a self-forgiving way) the idea that you are who you are and how you are and that is not going to change. You will control the aspects that are within your sphere of control, and let go of the stuff that isn't, to a higher power or to luck or the universe as per your belief system. Acknowledge that at the end of the day, it's out of your control what happens, and that is ok. No matter what, you cannot lose, either you get a daughter or another fabulous boy to love (and personally I think all boys should come in pairs like shoes, they thrive with brothers) and it's part of your life's journey, and no matter what the final outcome is you're going to be ok. It's not always gonna work, but even that you should jsut forgive yourself on. No matter what, it's not a disaster, and it's not the end of the world.

maidentomother

January 9th, 2016, 06:40 AM

I'm sorry about your unpleasant experience! Cut offs seem sooo stressful to me.

I noticed earlier in this thread you mentioned eating oatmeal - that is a big no no as we believe oats sway blue. I strongly suggest avoiding them if possible. I love oats and have replaced them with rolled wheat, personally.

Good luck with the job opportunity!

purple

January 9th, 2016, 07:43 AM

I think dropping the cut off would be a good idea if it stresses you out. One attempt at OPK+ or peak on the monitor would be a lot less stressful.

Good luck next month!!

maidentomother

January 10th, 2016, 09:05 AM

Those are all fine in moderation! Glad you dropped the oatmeal.

atomic sagebrush

January 10th, 2016, 04:27 PM

You absolutely SHOULD have applied for that job. Once in a lifetime stuff, you HAVE to go for that even when swaying. REmember you could lock yourself in a closet eating nothing but cranberries and rice cakes and still get a boy ANYWAY. DO NOT and I repeat do not let a life changing opportunity pass by for swaying.

I know I already said this but timing DOES NOT SWAY. Most of us on here hav 2-3-4 or more timing opposites. I have 4, 3 boys with cutoffs and a girl in Shettles boy timing. (and just think about all the people out there who would swear to you that timing works, but what happened to you this month actually happened to them!!) It just doesn't work and you can probably understand now in retrospect, tearing yourself up over something that doesn't even work anyway is not going to do your sway any favors. The amount of boy-makin' juju that comes from this worrying over timing is 10 billion times worse than your job application. Worrying over an amazing, once in a lifetime opportunity when you're doing this to yourself at the same time chasing a tactic that doesn't even work, it is time to take a step back and get your head right about what is happening here because I am worried for the fate of your sway if one little thing not going to plan is making you fall apart like this.

I honestly do not think you guys should try in February. I think you should take a month off and even consider high tech. I don't think you're ready to give up the cutoff because you need to give it up for the right reason (because you're ready to). If you really, really feel like you cannot handle another boy then high tech would be a better option. If that's not on the table, that's ok, but let's take February to catch our breath and regroup and you and I can go over some better ways to deal with these feelings and get it so you're feeling so great about your sway that a little early ovulation won't feel like the end of the world. :) March-May could possibly be more pink-friendly anyway so you may be helping yourself out by giving it another month.

atomic sagebrush

January 10th, 2016, 04:34 PM

Thank you for catching that Maiden, fortunately I did stop eating oatmeal about a month ago. There are a few possibly questionable things I do still indulge in though: garbanzo beans, yogurt, corn chips, egg whites, peanut butter, or cookies. And in the morning, if I need something more than water, mint tea or diet soda I'll sometimes drink a low-sugar version of hot chocolate which has a bit of milk in it. (And just to be clear, I regularly also include a bit of canola oil or margarine in my vegetables, noodles, and popcorn.)

There are no magic foods that make boys or girls. You can absolutely eat all those foods and most people do.

1500-1800 cals, 40-50 g protein 30-60 g fat, you have the vegetable fats aspect covered already by using the canola oil/margarine. That is what matters. All those foods you mention can absolutely be part of a pink sway diet and I ate garbanzos (in hummus form mostly but lots of it), peanut butter, well heck I had all those things except egg whites, and that's because I did eat whole eggs now and then instead. :) You are doing fine on diet (may even not be eating ENOUGH). It's the other stuff we need to get ironed out.

atomic sagebrush

January 12th, 2016, 05:20 PM

Thank you for your insights, Atomic, but I have to tell you it's really, really hard to think about not trying in February either. I'm going to need to think about this for a few days. I mean we've already given up November, December, and now January. I don't feel right about holding off any longer. If we do have two boys, it seems like they'll possible have a deeper relationship if they're closer in age.

Also, to be clear, I don't want to give the impression that I couldn't handle another boy. It's more like sometimes I can't handle the thought of never having a daughter... but sometimes I can. If that comes to be my reality I probably will need to go through some difficult mourning, but I believe I would ultimately be able to love my second son just as much as I do love my first.

Each month of this process I'm learning, more and more, just how much we're not in control. It's helping me to fully grasp just how precious any baby would be, and in a way it's slowly allowing me to rise above the gender anxieties and make peace with the reality of the situation.

I understand totally and I realize rereading what I wrote that complex emotions are just that - complex - and that I get that you can totally feel lots of different ways about this. I hope my response wasn't overly harsh, please realize that I actually DO get people who are falling apart and basically locking themselves in a closet going full-on Howard Hughes researching every possible thing that has ever been rumored to sway gender, no matter how dangerous or farfetched it is. So I apologize if the atomic tough love was unwarranted there. :)

We totally understand it's not about having another boy. We totally get that. It's that idea of NEVER. Of that door closing forever, but at the same time you ahve to live in the real world and that you could wait forever and "ruin" (not that your family would be ruined, but that you wouldn't have the spacing you want) your family ideal over something that might not ever happen anyway - IKYKWIM. You could wait 10 years and still get a boy then. I just hope you can take a step back and understand you're surrounded by tons of ladies who nailed that 3 day cutoff and got a boy so please don't take it so seriously. You don't need to give it up, but neither should you be getting upset if it doesn't work out. One of the most important lessons that I have learned from this process, is just as you say about control. It may even be that the more we fight to BE in control, we may end up passing by opportunities where God/luck/the universe was lending us a hand.

Swaying is kinda like an iceberg, where the stuff we see and control is just this teensy bit and then under the water there is this massive enormous thing. So we may end up waiting and waiting for everything above the surface to fall into place, but in the meantime we pass by months where for all we know, literally every single thing that we cannot see may be pink-friendly. Control what you can control, and then at the end of it you have to walk forward eventually in faith or in hope as per your belief system. :)

maidentomother

January 12th, 2016, 11:00 PM

Love the tip of the iceberg analogy atomic!

Traci25

January 13th, 2016, 02:16 AM

atomic sagebrush

January 17th, 2016, 04:09 PM

I hope it's ok to bump mon this thread, I was curious do you believe atomic and others that along with LE and 1 attempt, you should also do the jump and dump ( sounds horrible saying!)? Anything else you would add, I know Sudafed is a no no, but Benadryl? No douch because it's decreases conception but does it work?

Jump and dump has seemed to add something in statistics so I'd give it a shot at the start.

Benadryl and other antihistamine have been neutral. Cuts odds conception, doesn't seem to help.

Douching, I believe only appears to work becuase it's done with one attempt. I think the apparent success in our stats (which is very small sample size BTW) is deceiving because the one attempt sways so much. I saw tons of people douche like madwomen and get boys doing that and it causes tons of trouble with infections and stuff.

atomic sagebrush

January 17th, 2016, 04:10 PM

Thank you Atomic, the iceberg metaphor is insightful.

I'm not there yet, I'm still trying to find a way to walk in faith with this. Not the faith that our baby would be a girl, but the faith that our baby would be the right baby meant for our family. And faith in myself, that I would be able to get past my dark feelings if things don't go the way that some part of me feels like I need them to. Faith that I can find a way to stop obsessing over something may not be meant-to-be for our family. For now I will keep searching for clarity.

What do you think, now, about February? My big nightmare scenario is living in a sway limbo until menopause... never ready to get pregnant but never finding a way to give up the sway either...

Yes exactly! That's exactly what I mean. No matter what the outcome, it WILL be ok. That's the faith element in it.

I can't say about February. I can't decide that for people and I feel like it would honestly be better to flip a coin and do what the coin says.

atomic sagebrush

January 20th, 2016, 12:39 PM

I actually recommend 1200-1600 for pink, 2000 for blue (that's micrograms, not milligrams) THe reason I do that, is not because I"m trying to be different or quirky, it's because I researched it thoroughly and based on studies that is the safest amount for you guys to be taking while on a somewhat restricted diet. 1000 is ok if that's the way it works out with your dose though.

EVeryone takes 400 because that is the barest minimum. That is the amount for women of childbearing age JUST IN CASE they conceive. IT is the "if I mention this than no one can sue me" amount. But I have seen babies with neural tube defects conceived at that level. I had a baby with an NTD at 800 mcg folic acid, probably because I was drinking green tea at the same time (there are many things that actually block folic acid). Many sources recommend 800-1000 mcg folate for any women planning a pregnancy and these are women on a normal diet and taking prenatals as well. I think that the 1200-1600 mcg is best for you guys partly becaue your diet is more restrictive, and partly becaue you're not on prenatals (some other B vitamins help folic acid to be used better by the body)

The difference between 800 and 1000 is miniscule. If you think you are somehow preventing twin pregnancy by cutting back on 200 mcg folic acid, I'm sorry but that just isn't the way it works. They actually have studied if folic acid causes twinning and they found that it did NOT. What it does do, is ensures that both babies in a twin pregnancy develop normally and stay stuck. Many people who conceive twins end up losing one or both, and the folic acid may help prevent that from happening. So not that it is making more twins happen, but that it is enabling more twin pregnancies to work out.

Sweetplum

January 22nd, 2016, 02:52 PM

My husband surprised me a few days ago when I was joking around about going high tech for a daughter and he told me "You know I don't care about money. If that's what you need us to do, we could do it..." He's so hopeful about having a second baby.

Now I keep asking myself if I really would do IVF/PGD... but I don't think I could move forward on it. We sort of have the money, but it's money that was really hard to come by. We think of it as our family emergency fund. Both my husband and I are in competitive, relatively low paying fields where it's not easy for us to set aside any extra for savings and there's a real possibility of unemployment, so if we spent that money on IVF/PDG I don't know when we'd be able to set aside a decent emergency fund again. We'll probably need to spend a significant portion of it just for the costs of having the second child, let alone using it up for elective high tech expenses. The thought of how vulnerable we would be financially, compounded with the thought of how guilty I would feel for using family money that way... especially if it didn't even work!

Then, in addition to the financial stress, the IVF process is very scary to me. Only one of my friends has done it, not for gender reasons at all but because that was their only way to have a baby. Their child is SO happy and wonderful, but does have health concerns. I know the statistics say IVF is no more likely to cause birth defects than natural conception, but on the off chance that our child would have health problems I don't believe I'd be able to handle the guilt.

If I knew for sure that the choice was either have a second son or go high tech for a daughter, and I also knew the process would 100% work and she would be healthy... well maybe then I would be able to do it. But there's still a chance we could have a daughter with natural conception, and there's a chance that the IVF wouldn't work at all, or that she'd be unhealthy in some way... I just don't think those are odds I can accept at this point in my life.

There's a little scenario for the future I've been thinking about... if we did have a second boy and if my gender anxiety/disappointment feelings didn't go away or get better in time, and if money got to be less of an issue for us, and if the technology continues to improve over the years, well maybe then in my early forties we could take the high tech chance for a daughter. At that age I know it would be unlikely to work, but it's a comforting little fantasy that takes the edge off.

I just read through this whole string of posts about your situation and I can very much relate. I'm a bit different, with two boys already, I'm 40 AND my husband had a vasectomy after our second due to some really tough health stuff the four of us went through, but, only a year after the V I'm here - having the exact same internal debate you guys are.

It's all so much to think about.

I do have to say that over the past few weeks/months/years as I've been processing things and thinking about life in general I've found this sort of comfort by looking back on this journey and seeing that everything really does work out the way it's meant to and sometimes those things that are the most incredible blessings actually fall in your lap without any warning and when you least expect it. We really are so limited in the control we have and even more, what is most important is how we deal with setbacks and those things out of our control....not how much we 'get what we want'. I wish I could take my own thoughts and musings to heart more than I do....I feel so much in tune with your complex emotions...

I wish you peace on this journey, I have a feeling you guys will find the right solution for your family with all the thought and care you are putting into this. Best wishes and please keep us posted. I will be following along.

atomic sagebrush

January 22nd, 2016, 09:23 PM

If HT is on the table, I recommend at least looking into it. Because what may happen in that you end up back here ANYWAY with another little dude in tow trying to work out logistics for that. Time is not our friend in HT and the odds of success only decline, the idea that you can go HT in your early 40's is propagated by celebs who have either used donated/or prefrozen eggs, or did a dozen cycles.

HT now, sway later. If it doesn't work out, you absolutely CAN sway in your 40's it's wayyyy easier than HT in your 40's.

atomic sagebrush

January 22nd, 2016, 09:26 PM

I just read through this whole string of posts about your situation and I can very much relate. I'm a bit different, with two boys already, I'm 40 AND my husband had a vasectomy after our second due to some really tough health stuff the four of us went through, but, only a year after the V I'm here - having the exact same internal debate you guys are.

It's all so much to think about.

I do have to say that over the past few weeks/months/years as I've been processing things and thinking about life in general I've found this sort of comfort by looking back on this journey and seeing that everything really does work out the way it's meant to and sometimes those things that are the most incredible blessings actually fall in your lap without any warning and when you least expect it. We really are so limited in the control we have and even more, what is most important is how we deal with setbacks and those things out of our control....not how much we 'get what we want'. I wish I could take my own thoughts and musings to heart more than I do....I feel so much in tune with your complex emotions...

I wish you peace on this journey, I have a feeling you guys will find the right solution for your family with all the thought and care you are putting into this. Best wishes and please keep us posted. I will be following along.

:agree: totally and the journey, when you look back on it, you realize, wow, wouldn't change a thing. My DS 4 is my doppelganger, my smartypants, and a great kid (as I was writing this he said "I spy something beautiful and she's typing on the computer.") :heart:!! My 3rd is my husband's best buddy and soo adorably handsome. My 2nd is the most amazing and supportive guy and my bestest friend. I just wouldn't change that at all (and none of that of course takes away from my first who I wanted to be a boy with every fiber of my being, was just lucky enough to get him and love him to the moon and back) . My daughter isn't a replacement for what these guys brought into my lives.

luvmyfam

January 23rd, 2016, 05:06 PM

I don't really have much to say except I love, love everything you just said atomic! So sweet!

Sweetplum

January 26th, 2016, 02:53 PM

The more I think about high tech, the more I'm certain it's not for us. I used to have hope for Microsort, but now that seems futile since it's illegal in the US and international Microsort barely ever works for anyone.

I've thought about IVF/PGD but somehow I know we'll never go through with it. It's difficult to explain why... but I've realized this to the extent that if our only two choices were either have a daughter with IVF/PGD or to not have a second child, I'd choose no second child. Somehow the answer is not as intuitive to me when the options are a second naturally conceived baby boy versus an IVF/PGD daughter. Yet I still solidly know that we won't pursue IVF/PGD. Maybe you'll think this means we just shouldn't have a second child...the thought of not trying makes me profoundly sad.

I've been feeling old and acutely aware of timing passing by. It's never gone well when I've tried to control the aspects of life not within my control. The sway is starting to take a lot out of me. Sometimes I long to relinquish our situation to the beauty of chance and fate. To God. I know a second son precludes our hopes for a daughter. I'm terrified part of me would resent him for that... but maybe it wouldn't be such a huge deal in time. Don't mothers always have complicated emotions about their children? I have to believe we would still love him wholly.

I've heard it said in some cultures that "A son is life's greatest blessing." In my own life I have found it to be true. I can only imagine how wonderful a daughter would be, but I'm certain of the majesty of life with a little boy. I worry that in order for us to move forward, maybe I need to find a way to be comfortable anticipating with one-hundred percent certainty that our baby would be a boy. Maybe I'm getting closer to being there. I think of our handsome young nephews on my husband's side of the family... maybe nature knows more than I do about what's for the best. The longing for my daughter is deep, relentless, and valid... but I have to believe in the wisdom of the natural world.

I can so relate to all this....your longing is definitely valid.
Give yourself time to process.

My perspective from the other side : Two boys are pretty awesome, I'll have to quote Atomic here in that "boys should come in pairs like shoes" nothing truer has been said! I watch my two and they love eachother deeply only like brothers can and I would not change it for the world. Plus the opportunity to raise strong yet vulnerable, successful yet loving MEN is a gift not to be taken lightly :)

It will all make sense, it's great you are here thinking about it and coming to terms with everything.

atomic sagebrush

January 26th, 2016, 09:54 PM

i recommend a look at the (imperfect) book "Stiffed" by Susan Faludi. There's a section on the Citadel (which was once an all-boys military school in the US, but now isn't any more, for better or worse) and how an all boy-education may help men get more in touch with their "feminine" side because they don't HAVE to impress girls and thus don't have to act uber-masculine. There's a part where an older student is showing a younger student how to tuck in their shirt, and it's the kind of totally asexual, physical, loving connection that brothers and straight men living together in close quarters have, that oftentimes is sexualized by Hollywood into "homoeroticism" for lack of a better term - but boys and men need that. It's Sam and Frodo, it's Woody and Buzz, it's Bert and Ernie, it's Han and Luke, and Bart and Milhouse, and Batman and Robin, and Kirk and Spock and Bones, and and Peter Parker and Harry Osborne and and a thousand other iconic male-male pairs. I see that all the time with my sons and their brothers. It's like a friendship and caretaking and camaraderie between men that is of late turned into something other than what it really is, to all our detriment. They love each other, and it's a kind of love that is precious and valuable to the world. :agree:

atomic sagebrush

January 26th, 2016, 10:12 PM

The more I think about high tech, the more I'm certain it's not for us. I used to have hope for Microsort, but now that seems futile since it's illegal in the US and international Microsort barely ever works for anyone.

I've thought about IVF/PGD but somehow I know we'll never go through with it. It's difficult to explain why... but I've realized this to the extent that if our only two choices were either have a daughter with IVF/PGD or to not have a second child, I'd choose no second child. Somehow the answer is not as intuitive to me when the options are a second naturally conceived baby boy versus an IVF/PGD daughter. Yet I still solidly know that we won't pursue IVF/PGD. Maybe you'll think this means we just shouldn't have a second child...the thought of not trying makes me profoundly sad.

I've been feeling old and acutely aware of timing passing by. It's never gone well when I've tried to control the aspects of life not within my control. The sway is starting to take a lot out of me. Sometimes I long to relinquish our situation to the beauty of chance and fate. To God. I know a second son precludes our hopes for a daughter. I'm terrified part of me would resent him for that... but maybe it wouldn't be such a huge deal in time. Don't mothers always have complicated emotions about their children? I have to believe we would still love him wholly.

I've heard it said in some cultures that "A son is life's greatest blessing." In my own life I have found it to be true. I can only imagine how wonderful a daughter would be, but I'm certain of the majesty of life with a little boy. I worry that in order for us to move forward, maybe I need to find a way to be comfortable anticipating with one-hundred percent certainty that our baby would be a boy. Maybe I'm getting closer to being there. I think of our handsome young nephews on my husband's side of the family... maybe nature knows more than I do about what's for the best. The longing for my daughter is deep, relentless, and valid... but I have to believe in the wisdom of the natural world.

I understand totally. HT has never been for me either. I don't know why because I completely support it for literally everyone, but me. Just doesn't feel right to me, maybe because I always knew or sensed that I could live without a daughter. I got one, by the grace of God or the universe, but at the end of the day I always knew from day one I could and WOULD get through this, daughter or no. My daughter is a gift, she is the cherry on top of a pretty f-ng awesome sundae but I knew and know, at the end of it all, in my heart and gut that I would still be here telling you guys, IT IS OK to have only sons, you are still endlessly blessed, even if I had not gotten a daughter. Sons are a miracle and I see plenty of women who I started this journey with, in 2008, who didn't keep having kids like I did, and hung with 2 or 3 or boys, and they are HAPPY!!! Their lives are beautiful and amazing. They drink margaritas on a beach with their husband in Mexico. Their sons win awards for music or swimming, or robotics, or academics. I have 4 of the most beautiful treasures in the world and that hasn't changed because I had a daughter, not at all!!! When you're in it, it feels all encompassing, but once the decision is made, things are ok. It's just another dream that did or didn't come true. These sites are great when you need the support but we aren't always the best at helping people move forward, maybe because we are still in it. But you CAN move on with your life and have a great life even if you don't get your desired gender. :)

atomic sagebrush

January 28th, 2016, 02:54 PM

No more weight loss. Do whatever it takes to stop the unintentional weight loss right away.

I don't feel we have the data to say for sure if the release beforehand helps or hurts a sway. Not enough people did it and the whole thing is skewed by the one attempt. So personally, I'd leave it out, I never recommend it any more, not because of the stress, but because it's gonna cut your odds of conception so much for a dubious benefit anyway.

You CAN'T change your brain. Don't try. It was never ever ever x infinity and beyond, my intention to start having you guys launch into these modes where you think you're going to turn yourself into someone else for a sway. The ONLY ONLY ONLY reason I ever mentioned it was because historically people would treat swaying pink as a game they could win, like if they sacrificed hard enough, controled every aspect in their lifes, did every sway tactic ever rumored to do anything, tracked their cycles for years and made colorcoded pH charts, etc they would then be guaranteed a daughter. But it is the trying to control that sways blue, and so to trade that stuff for laying in bed thinking "OMG OMG I gotta turn into Mary, I'm ruining my sway, gotta calm down" and practicing hours of Shaolin breathing techniques to "calm down" (being just this side of a panic attack the whole time of course) is JUST as bad if not worse even.

I promise ya, I'm the exact same person I was when I conceived my boys, when I conceived my girl. I didn't turn into someone else, I was just slightly more defeated and mellow, and may I point out that we don't KNOW that even had any connection to why I conceived a girl, and additionally we don't KNOW that it was any deliberate change in attitude that accomplished that, or (much more likely) a side effect of chronic stress, sleep loss, and LE Diet.

atomic sagebrush

January 28th, 2016, 02:55 PM

oh and everything else looking good. :agree:

Sweetplum

January 28th, 2016, 10:53 PM

Thank you Atomic, Thank you Sweetplum, Thank you Maiden, and anyone out there who's reading this. The last few weeks have been difficult, but it helps to not feel so alone. I know no matter how all this goes for our family, many many many other families have experienced all the same feelings.

We're heading closer towards the time when we'll either try or not try for February. A while back I'd thought February would be the perfect month for a variety of reasons but now I'm hovering between hopelessness, obsession, acceptance, and even indifference. Once in a while I still just get excited about the possibility of a new baby to love. At other times I'm still really not sure if any of this is a good idea.

Just today I noticed that my stupid butter has added vitamin D in it... well whatever, gotta let that one just roll off my back. I bought a new butter ...tastes terrible.

I'm not making any decisions for now, just gonna let the next days come. In case we do move forward my sway has shaped up to look like this:

Diet:
Over three months of bland, repetitive, vegetarian (almost vegan) foods (rice, noodles, bread, legumes, veggies, ego waffles, peanut butter, oil, butter)
Over six months low salt
Relatively low protein/high carb with moderate to high calcium from almond milk, low fat calcium hot chocolate, limited cheese
Gradual switch over from omega three fats to more omega six fats
No breakfast or snacks most days
Two or so peppermint teas per day from period through ovulation
Slow, super gradual and unintentional weight loss, doing my best to hold steady at BMI 18.5.

Supplements:
Calcium, Magnesium, Iron, Zinc, Iodine (using Atomic's dosing recommendations to meet minimum needs) Folic acid has ranged between 800-1200 (now sticking to 1200)

Exercise:
Over 60 min per day aerobics plus frequent long walks at least six days a week for three months

Sex Plan:
One attempt at positive OPK
Missionary
No female O
One release beforehand?
J+D after five min

Is there anything you'd recommend I take out or add? Is the one release beforehand a good idea or just worthless added stress? The whole swaying thing stresses my husband out so I don't think it's a good idea to ask him to do anything else. I might make us a few pitchers of Crystal Light pink lemonade to drink over the next couple of days.

I know some of my personality/brain/hormone stuff might sway blue. What can I do about it? Probably nothing. I don't normally drink alcohol or coffee but I tried them both today and it was nice to have a change. For a while they broke me out of dark thoughts. Both typically destroy my ability to sleep, but I guess insomnia is good for pink. So maybe I'll just let February go by the wayside and try a month of coffee and booze, a "Month of Mary" and see what kind of Mary I could turn into...

I'm new to this and absolutely not an expert but I think your plan seems to hit on all the buttons in terms of leaning for a girl. That said, there are no guarantees and I have this feeling that no matter what happens for you it will be just wonderful and you'll embrace it, maybe with time or maybe immediately, that includes not moving forward with TTC too. You seem quite rigorous in thought and intuitive, and of course, that will lead to obsessing but also to enlightenment :)

BMI of 18.5 seems so low...I used to be anorexic but I'm no where near to that thin now so I kinda agree to eat up and not worry about weight loss.

When it comes to the personality thing, I agree 100% that you cannot change it, it's the circumstances that may drag you down into the melancholy that seems to sway girl (at least from what I've read). I'm so new to all this but I'd have to say that if the 'defeated' hypothesis was always true, then every women in their 40s would all be having girls....really by that time in life we are so beaten down by our other children, dreams that have died and well, life, that it would seem that we would all have girls, but we don't...so as Atomic says it's really just trends and combinations. I wouldn't worry about the personality thing too much, just be who you are, let life happen and sink in to the imperfection and randomness of it. Easier said than done, right ?!? (Coming from the Ultimate Perfectionist).

Keep us posted, I'm really excited to hear what you do and I (secretly) hope you'll go for it :)

atomic sagebrush

January 30th, 2016, 01:25 PM

Sweetplum

January 30th, 2016, 02:05 PM

????Whaaaaaaa??????

Am I the only chick who LIKES being in her 40's??

Some sh!tty stuff has happened to me along the way but it has f-all to do with being 45. I love being this age. I find it very freeing and if I would've had to go through the stuff I have gone through, in my 20's when I was still super duper uptight about everything, my head would have exploded. Yeah, I felt defeated at the time I conceived my daughter, but then again that was 3 1/2 years ago and it's gone away and things are feeling pretty upbeat for me now. And again, I have no way of knowing if that had any connection anyway or if it was diet + one attempt.

So many people misinterpret what I"m trying to say into some sort of "girl moms are depressed losers" thing. THAT IS NOT WHAT I'M SAYING AT ALL. If anything, I think being a Mary is SUPERIOR to being a Martha because you have learned or know instinctively what is important and don't waste all this time spinning your wheels over crap that doesn't matter and feeling like a failure all the time because of the grand plans that don't work out (because they'd take a cast of thousands and a million dollars to do them.) I think that on the whole people who are inherently Mary or have a good balance between extremes, are happier and more successful than those of us who are the full on Martha types because we just burn ourselves up on stuff that either doesn't matter to other people, or that they actively dislike, in that way that people always tend to dislike people who try to outdo everybody else at stuff. :/

I am just trying to explain a very complicated thing very simply and it's not easy. I just don't want girl moms to walk away from this convo with a bad taste in their mouths. :)

I agree with you 100%.

I'm loving my 40s and it's because I am more relaxed and accepting of the fact that life sometimes goes the way you want it to and well, it sometimes doesn't and that is OK and I basically worry less about everything. Using 'defeated' bit was too harsh in the wording, what I mean is that by our 40s we are more 'accepting' of the ups and downs of life and more low key. I'm DEFINITELY more accepting in my 40s than even 5 years ago when I tried to control everything and do it all perfectly. So I guess what I meant is that when we get to this point of more maturity I think some of us who were previously 100% Martha do become more Mary just due to the course of stuff happening and being defeated (at times). I definitely was beat down and defeated in the past few years and this has changed me...since I tried to control EVERYTHING with my first two (actually three - one miscarriage) pregnancies and kept getting the short straw when it came to my health and my kids health (big time) I realized that well, it doesn't matter how much you plan it all down to the last detail, life happens and it's good to be organized but all that worrying and stressing won't matter for the big stuff, a lot of life is out of our control and how we adapt is more important than stressing and planning and controlling.

I hope that makes more sense. I'm definitely not here to offend or judge. I think there are great qualities to both Mary and Martha and my point was that I'm pretty sure you can be a Martha and still get a girl or a Mary and still get a boy as this is not a perfect science. It's about trends and combinations and many more variables than just one single isolated thing...I just wanted Complex Emotions to not try to change her personality as I think these things happen naturally through the course of ones life :)

atomic sagebrush

January 30th, 2016, 04:30 PM

No it was my fault, I used "defeated" to begin with without clarifying that it happened to be true for me personally when I got pg with my DD and not that it was a larger trend or anything. Sometimes I write too many posts in one day and get verbal diarrhea LOL.

I agree with every word you say, it's that over time life beats it out of ya one way or the other, for better or for worse (because there are honestly some things I miss about my Martha ways) but overall it's good for all of us to learn to let go of the control-freak-ishness. :agree: Completely agree.

Faithinpink

February 1st, 2016, 07:41 AM

Hi complex,how are you feeling ? Oh yes plz make sure your getting enough potassium ts so very important to your health, what I do daily to make Sure I'm getting enough is eat my grapes and skim milk , potatoes here or there and cauliflower.xx take care of your self

atomic sagebrush

February 2nd, 2016, 04:14 PM

I woke up with chest pains this morning, and I've read on this site that other women who experienced chest pain were low on potassium. I haven't been trying to limit my potassium at all, but in retrospect I may have inadvertently not been getting enough with my diet, especially considering all the exercise I've been up to. It's possible that I had too much water yesterday too. So for safety's sake I ate a full breakfast including a banana, an orange, and other foods I've read are high in potassium like yogurt and milk. Throughout the day I also ate many garbanzo beans and dried apricots because these are apparently both packed with potassium too. (I picked up water with electrolytes in it, just in case that has anything to do with the pains.)

I quickly gave up on my workout because I'm feeling extra tired. I'm not sure if I should be worried or how exactly to proceed. I think I'm feeling better, but still having some mild chest pain now and then.

I'm sorry if I'm being overly dramatic... In the past I've had a tendency to worry too much about health symptoms. Plus I've been under a lot of stress, so this could totally be psychosomatic. I'm not planning to see a doctor unless I get worse because in my experience doctors jump into freak out mode and push you into ordering unnecessary, expensive tests. I think I'll just try couch potato and focusing on eating extra potassium for now.

Any thoughts?

ON LE Diet it is ABSOLUTELY hard to get enough potassium without making an effort and having a lot of water can exacerbate that. Normally I'd tell you to go to a doctor but I agree either you get the doctor who treats you like a lunatic hypochondriac or the one that starts checking you for everything under the sun including ebola and Zika virus. :p

Yes please take a few days off and eat more potassium. Do NOT postpone your attempt unless you're feeling really ill (and in that case of course get medical help.) Remember, if diet for one day did anything, we'd only do diet for one day.

atomic sagebrush

February 2nd, 2016, 04:15 PM

Thank you for the check-in Faithinpink, I'm feeling better but not fully 100% yet. I plan to mostly just couch potato at home with my son and eat lots of garbanzos, veggies, and dried apricots today. I'll also be sure of getting 100% or more potassium through diet from today on, and I'll incorporate your food recommendations too.

I'm still considering making our attempt tonight, but a little nervous since I've loosened up the sway starting yesterday due to the chest pain. If Atomic sees this today, I'd specifically like to know if you think we should proceed even with me needing to loosen up on the sway right before the attempt. For example, I've been eating a couple of snacks to get all the potassium I needed since I didn't feel well enough to eat big meals. Also, I'm not working out today or yesterday, but I do need to still take some light walks with my son.

How is it today?????

Sweetplum

February 3rd, 2016, 04:10 PM

Hi Atomic, thank you for getting back to me. This week reminded me that health is so much more important than gender! There's nothing like a heart scare to show you just how precious life is, and how delicate bodies are. I've been enjoying my time with my husband and son in a new light.

I do still have some chest pain once in a while, but I think it's less than before. I'm planning to book a physical and I'll ask the doctor to check my potassium levels. I'm not feeling up to the aerobics I'd been doing almost daily, but I understand that the 60+ min could also be long walks, so that's what I'm switching to for the time being.

I've done some research and it looks like I can continue the sway safely with plenty of potassium if I eat three servings of garbanzo beans daily along with a couple of servings of low fat dairy, boiled brussels sprouts, and or lima beans. Please let me know if this brings up any swaying red flags.

We decided to move forward with our first attempt, but because I was so anxious we used extra sway techniques to lower the odds (attempted three day cut-off, j+d, hot shower, etc...) and see how it all felt. Afterwards I was more excited than nervous. I've found myself hoping it worked. If we didn't get pregnant this month (likely), than I think we'll be ready to try more seriously soon. Who knows... we may try again this month at positive OPK if our attempt turns out to be more than a four or five day cut-off, or maybe we'll get in on the March/April/May bump!

I've read you suggest that the sway process may itself sway blue, so now that I've got my rhythm down, I'm considering moving all this to the back of my mind and leaving the site for a while. I hope to come back with good news, one way or another.

Thank you again for sharing your research and your insights with all of us. I have to tell you, you're fascinating!

So exciting. Keep us posted!

atomic sagebrush

February 3rd, 2016, 08:42 PM

Good luck and please keep us updated Complex (when you are ready to do so)

Faithinpink

February 4th, 2016, 08:00 AM

Complex take it easy and Good Luck xx
FX for your girl

Sweetplum

February 10th, 2016, 01:45 PM

Hello - I wasn't planning to come back on here so soon like this, but I started feeling tremendous guilt about the possibility that I haven't been getting all the nutrients needed for a healthy baby, especially now that there's an (albeit tiny considering the three day cut-off and other sway techniques) chance I could be pregnant. The whole potassium chest pain scare earlier this month put me on edge, and then yesterday I saw some articles that discussed how vitamin B12 is essential for preventing neural tube defects and spina bifida in addition to folic acid. That's something I didn't realize before and its got me deeply worried about what else I may not know. I also found out that my staple dairy drink that I thought had B12 in it doesn't so I don't think I've gotten much of any B12 for a while, and I'm not sure if I have as much B12 stored in my liver as most people do because I've always tended to eat less meat than most people do.

I booked a preconception health consultation to discuss my blood levels with my doctor, but she can't see me for a week. As I understand it by the day you get pregnant you're technically already two-weeks along, and I know the really important spinal chord and brain development would be in high gear from now up through weeks four - six. At least I've been taking in a good amount of folic acid (THANK YOU ATOMIC!!!!!), but I'm still really worried and having an unbearable time emotionally right now.

Due to these feelings, I took a prenatal today. I also drank three full cups of milk and had an egg to get the extra B12. For the moment, my gender desire seems gone and I only care about having a healthy baby. I'm really tempted to drop the sway entirely, but I also know I'm feeling so emotional that it's hard to think clearly. Obviously nothing matters more than the health of the potential baby, but what I can't wrap my mind around is if I really should be worried or not. Maybe I'm perfectly healthy and overall ready to be pregnant, and if I change course now I'm just ruining what would have otherwise been a successful sway. Still, for today at least, I can't emotionally afford not follow these guilt feelings. I think I need to at least take a prenatal this week until I can see my doctor.

Please don't stress yourself out too much. Much of what you seem to be concerned about is in the past and so you cannot control it, but you can learn from how you are feeling right now for if you do decide to continue TTC (if you are not pregnant now) and adjust your plan so that you can avoid this in the future.

I think your worry is so common at the stage you are in and it just means you care so much about your possible unborn baby, but stress isn't good for either of you! Especially worry about things that have already passed. Many many mothers for thousands of years have conceived healthy babies on all sorts of diets, good and bad. And many mothers who do every single thing right with diet and lifestyle have health issues with them or their babies...but you know what - they get through those just fine (I can attest to the latter!)

You are doing a great job for yourself AND baby.

atomic sagebrush

February 11th, 2016, 10:50 PM

Complex, I just want you to take a deep breath and a step back here because this is what happens with my anxious pink swayers all the time and then end up completely undermining their sways.

B12 is in ALL meat, dairy, and eggs, and many fortified foods. Your body is pretty good at storing the stuff as well, if you have a relatively normal diet there are years of B12 stored in your liver and even stranger, bacteria in your intestines MAKE it for you. ANYONE who does LE Diet as written and having some milk or eggs fairly regularly is getting more than enough B12. It's been shown that virtually all Americans get enough without taking supplements or even eating healthfully.

There are a very few people who do have B12 deficiency and they are the EXTREME minority. People who had gastric bypass, who are chronic alcoholics, who are elderly, and a HANDFUL of people with rare genetic disorders can get low B12. People who are strict vegans for many years without taking supplements can also develop it. But these people are NOT YOU. They all have significant, life altering symptoms. Reading a scary article online and then jumping to the HUGE conclusion that you will therefore have an unhealthy baby without taking supplements and drinking 3 cups of milk a day, it just isn't true. IF you're worried about it, sure, get tested. You may be one of those very rare individuals who has a deficiency (somehow without having the neurological symptoms). I doubt that you are, but if it gives you peace of mind, please have the test done. I will warn you, the consultant will scare you silly telling you things that are simply not the case so be prepared. NO ONE on earth before 40 years ago ever took a prenatal vitamin before conception. We did not evolve taking prenatal vitamins and it is just silly to think that you cannot have a healthy baby without one. If that was the case we would have died out a million years ago. Some even speculate we may even be causing harm by taking megadoses of nutrients.

Additionally, before you get a BFP your baby is floating around free in your body. Thus my recommendation is as stands, which is to start a prenatal at BFP. The only nutrient ever shown to improve outcomes of pregnancy when taken before conception is folic acid and thus that is why I recommend everyone take that. You know why I know this is because I HAVE a baby with a neural tube defect, which I conceived while taking prenatals daily and eating tons of dairy and eggs and meat and 800 mcg folic acid.

I am not in this to harm babies. I have spent thousands of hours researching, reading, I have a personal library of dozens of nutrition books all of which I have read from cover to cover repeatedly. I believe with every fiber of my being that it is perfectly fine to skip a prenatal vitamin for a few months as long as you eat decently and take folic acid. The people who write these terrifying articles are manipulating data to scare people into buying whatever it is they're selling and it simply isn't based in reality.

maidentomother

February 12th, 2016, 05:59 PM

I am not a dietician but nutrition has always been a big interest of mine (and a big one in my mother's profession, in which I was quite involved for decades). I'm particularly interested in CRON (caloric restriction for optimal nutrition) and I have done it myself for years. I'm talking about averaging 1000 cals a day or less. I did this long term, without taking sny supplements, and regular blood tests confirmed I never developed any deficiencies. And I've had deficiencies when eating over 2000 cals daily!

It really gets me when people worry about the LE being unhealthy bc you can actually eat much, MUCH less and still be healthy. The LE is not even close to a nutrient-deprivation diet. It's just reduced relative to how many boy moms eat. If you follow the guidelines and not your own interpretation of what to do, you cannot go wrong.

atomic sagebrush

February 12th, 2016, 09:25 PM

:agree: millions of people are dying every day from being OVERnourished. The LE Diet is based on the World Health Organization's recommendations for a healthy prepregnancy diet for all women of childbearing age (around the world including poverty stricken countries where many women do not have access to the type of vitamins and food choices that we do). It's normal range. It is not below normal, it's not starvation, it's normal range for health prepregnancy diet for women of childbearing age.

Faithinpink

February 13th, 2016, 02:06 AM

Good luck complex , I have been thinking about you and how ur feeling ��and glad you touched base.
Keep us posted... AND RELAX xx

Sweetplum

February 17th, 2016, 01:42 PM

Thinking of you complex and hope you are doing well.

atomic sagebrush

February 17th, 2016, 08:25 PM

Oh good I'm glad to hear that (about the B12).

What can I say. Doctors often act like they believe in timing. They often act like it's proven. But it isn't. We're at the forefront of a paradigm shift and the rest of the world hasn't caught up to us yet. I suspect doctors have a lot more important stuff to learn in medical school and so they may have heard it mentioned once and then never heard the other side of the story, but the cutting line researchers like Dr. Elissa Cameron and Dr. Valerie Grant and Dr. Fiona Mathews DO NOT believe in timing. If you have to do timing, do timing. Just be darn sure you keep that one attempt no matter what, for as long as you can. Don't keep timing and add attempts.

I WANT you guys to treat this as a fun experiment. I get nervous when I see people get upset and anxious over swaying, not only because it's just not good for you as a happy, well-adjusted person, but also because it may undermine your sway as per our previous conversation.

Your white blood cell count can be low for many different reasons and if there was anything going wrong then you'd have had other tests come back with concerning results OR your test would have been more than just slightly low. In fact, one of the most typical groups that come back with low white blood cell count for no medical reason are young Caucasian women (which I'm assuming you are, may not be of course)

Prenatals have gotten our blue swayers boys 80% of the time. WE only recently just started tracking results on this with pink so I don't have a good sample size to report on (only one person who DID indeed get a blue opposite but one is not enough to tell anything with)

I WANT you guys to eat extra potassium. :agree: I do not believe this sways one bit and it's hard sometimes to get enough when on LE Diet.

atomic sagebrush

February 17th, 2016, 08:29 PM

High blood sugar may actually sway BLUE so I would have you up protein and fat to 50-60 g, keep cals the same (this in effect lowers carb intake iwthout having to even think about it) and switch from any kind of sugar or white carbs to whole grains and also get most of your carb calories from fruit and high carb veg (like potato) instead of grains.

One of the downsides of a vegetarian/vegan diet is that it can mess with BS levels in those who are prone to it. Because veg protein does tend to be carby it is not unusual for vegans in particular to develop a kind of "thin PCOS" or insulin resistance. So just make those above changes and I think you'll be fine. This thread may help (scroll down past the first few threads there's more diet info about 4-5 posts from the top) http://genderdreaming.com/forum/gender-swaying-general-discussion/9052-swaying-under-special-circumstances-part-3-pcos.html

atomic sagebrush

February 19th, 2016, 04:08 PM

Can you take one every other day instead? They are designed to dissolve at a certain rate and cutting them affects the way they dissolve in your stomach. This can mean you get a sick tummy from them and may not absorb the stuff right anyway if the pills are formulated to dissolve in your intestines instead of stomach acid (plus some other annoying things like jitteriness and niacin flush)

When I say "lower blood sugar" it is shorthand for a very complicated bunch of biological processes. It is NOT lower blood sugar as measurable on a blood sugar monitor. It is the process by which your body is forced to burn off stores of fat and fuel to keep blood sugar in normal range. It is also the process by which your sugar shoots up, then insulin is released, lowering blood sugar too far, then your body again burns stores to keep sugar in normal range (and so then yes, eating small regular meals does keep BS on average lower than the seesawing of the skipping meals does, but that doesn't help your sway). Your body doesn't LIKE having high OR low blood sugar and takes steps to fix it. Something about the way it fixes it (or doesn't HAVE to, for blue swayers) seems to sway. Or, maybe it's just that your blood sugar drops low X hours out of the day (even if it goes up after). We don't know. That is too long to write every time so I shorthand it.

Additionally, "high/low blood sugar" is just a THEORY anyway. Totally unproven. Never been a study done that tests anyone's blood sugar and then shows what gender they ended up conceiving. But we KNOW that whatever we're doing with the fasting and the skipping snacks, etc, it's working. And the alternate diets for people who seem to need them, is also working (even better seemingly and even after a failed sway). So I just hate to see you guys get so hung up on the theoretical elements that you lose sight of just doing what is working for most of the people, most of the time.

Atomic tough love alert - I am really really concerned about your sway. This is what I am talking about when I'm trying to warn you about MDH and all the rest of it. It is exactly, exactly what I have seen 1283408 other pink swayers do before. Panicking over health issues and dropping diet because they're convinced they're making themselves ill. Spending hours online looking up studies etc, etc etc (and I'm not saying this because I don't want to answer questions or explain, I DO, and I'm not saying it because I"m defensive over the LE Diet or whatever, it's that it makes me very nervous for your sway) And as per your previous question, no, blue swayers do not do this (even when I WISH they would like the ladies on Ingender eating 6000 mg sodium a day and ending up hospitalized with high blood pressure and yet STILL EATING THE SODIUM or the ones whose teeth are rotting from their heads and babies who have rickets because they haven't eaten calcium or Vitamin D in 3 years even during pregnancy and refuse to question anything) and no, it's not because they don't care about the outcome of their sway. Some of them are practically dying they care so much about their sway. It's just a different mindset and while I obviously do NOT want anyone to cultivate that mindset to such a huge extent there is a vast gulf inbetween the two extremes.

If as you say that you're ok with having another boy, then that's one thing and I'd probably keep my opinion to myself but I just get the vibe (and could very well be wrong) that you are not ok with another boy and I feel like I am watching you rush headlong over a cliff here. I comletely apologize because I ow that this warning will only aggravate the stress you're feeling but I am not sure I do you any favors by sitting here and encouraging you to proceed under this set of circumstances.
re

atomic sagebrush

February 19th, 2016, 04:20 PM

RE timing, there are two considerations. One is that yes, if O is to be delayed, then you can of course continue with e4d thereafter and cover yourself either way. The other consideration, however, is that if you O EARLY, if you really, truly believe in timing, you absolutely CAN end up DTD right on O. Whereas with the OPK method, at least you'll be in before O (and maybe as long as 2 days before). And with e4d, you're also going to most likely be in with attempt before O, because even worst case scenario where you have attempt O-3 and on O day, the O-3 swimmers (if any are left) will have made it to the egg and fertilized it long before the O day sperm would even capacitate.

The third consideration (which, I know I said there were two, but I lied) is also to humbly, humbly point out that while you've nailed that 3 day cutoff brilliantly, you haven't gotten pregnant. I know the philosophy of some is "go on until menopause with BFN if it means I have higher chances of a girl" but what if you DON'T have higher chances of a girl? What if you're keeping timing, like "Dumbo's feather" something that makes you feel like it's working, when it isn't, and then over time it just gives yourself more time to panic and decide the diet is making you sick and probably infertile and give up the things that really are swaying (like diet and one attempt) till you're up on top of the flaming building (like Dumbo was) and ready to jump off the top into this tiny pail of water below with nothing but this magic feather to hang onto???