Losing hope :(

[1moregirl]

I really thought that I could get DH on board by now with this one last attempt but he isn't budging. At one stage before Xmas he was almost in agreeance but lately he won't even compromise. When I text him at work yday (don't do it very often) he replied with 'try the postman - but I would be with my bags by the door.' So I replied back with 'if you can't allow me one last try, then maybe you'll end up with your bags by the door anyway.' It's ridiculous. All this mucking around and I might not even get pregnant again anyway, or if I do it may end the same as it did last time. Yet I just wanted to try and he won't even come to some sort of compromise. I have tried everything, even begging and saying I will do whatever he wants me to do if he'll just agree. Should I just give up? :(

[signingmommyfor3]

Don't give up but give him his space. Let go of the subject for a while and just stew and hope to yourself. For 4 years DH told me No over and over, during the first year I got pregnant accidentally while on BC and he did almost leave but I lost the baby. He still continued to tell me No. I would beg and cry and bargain with him, telling him I was unhappy without trying for one more. After 3 years I dropped he subject and there would be times he would bring it up and I would state what I wanted then asked him to move on. After that he up and decided one day this summer that it was time to try for our last baby.

[atomic sagebrush]

I have no advice, just huge (((Hugs))). This as you already know, is one of my personal pet peeves. I think it's going to take an entire ferocious political movement to solve this problem, I really do. I hate the level of power men have over their wives in terms of childbearing when they are the ones who can and do have children up till their 60's and 70's. You may have read how both Jeff Goldblum and Steve Martin just had their first kids at 63 and 67 with much younger women after a string of childless marriages/relationships and I want to punch them both in the effing face. How nice for you that you can play around as much as you want basically till you're on the brink of decrepitude and still slide out a little kiddo just under the wire. WE CAN'T.

But, all that having been said, it's your husband, your family, if he's a good guy otherwise, you have three beautiful kids and if you are otherwise happy this has to be something that you may end up having to compromise on. I'm sorry, I wish I had the magic words but I don't.

[1moregirl]

Thanks ladies. And Atomic - I sooo agree with you on that note with the men. And I know what my DH is like - he gets soooo clucky when he holds a newborn baby in his arms and our third child (little boy) was conceived accidentally (we BD twice in a row - I remember for we were on holiday sharing a room with the two kids lol) - I'm sure deep down I knew it was around O time at the time but it didn't dawn on me 'in the heat of the moment.' Maybe I have to pray for an accidental miracle to happen like on that occasion. Lol! But I'll probably be pushing my luck for him to just BD without a condom. I have already joked around with him and said 'well condoms aren't 100% full proof you know my love' but he knows he would not have my consent to have a vasectomy done at this stage. Men just don't get it do they Atomic? They don't have that yearning maternal instinct that we women do. Men can often be moody creatures and lacking in patience with their kids (though they can be great dads at the same time), and I still think it's a few moments of pleasure for them BD and then 9 months of discomfort for us plus the pain of the labour and birth. I totally get that men often have the financial burden to carry that bothers them when it comes to having more kids but honestly - if we all worried about money as a factor when deciding upon another baby would any time be the right time? My DH commented to me about sleepless nights and nappy changes - I do all that, I mean, when they are newborns they only really want their mothers when they are hungry (well if they are solely breastfed babies). I am NoT giving up. I can be just as stubborn as my DH and I don't like admitting defeat when I really want something. If, by the grace of God, I was lucky enough to conceive again and carry to term, I would be one of the happiest women on earth. Even if it was our third boy, I wouldn't care, as we were lucky enough to at least experience the joy of bringing one beautiful little girl into the world. And I would know I gave it my best shot in swaying for a girl. I tried to tell DH that marriage is a compromise - if both partners are in disagreement about something of importance, then they should come to some sort of compromise and meet half way somehow. I told him that if he agreed to this last try then I would give my approval for him to have a vasectomy. I don't go on about it all the time (like every day or anything) but it's always there - this yearning in my heart and soul to carry one more precious baby in my belly and to deliver it safely and feel it feeding sty breast. I guess we'll see.....

[1moregirl]

Also, I apologise for that novel. I got teary just writing it. And I don't have anyone else who I can talk to about it who understands.

[maidentomother]

I'm so sorry 1moregirl. You'd think he'd be more sympathetic since your loss.

Atomic, now I want to punch those manwhores in the face, too. Grrrrrrrr.

[atomic sagebrush]

I think they are just operating under an entirely different set of (for lack of a better word) values that I think is nicely summed up in this article from Slate/Quora wherein one man and one woman list their regrets in life and the dude is talking about cognac and having a trophy wife and telling eveyrone to listen to Pink Floyd, and the woman is talking about her despair over not having had children. One of these things is not like the other. When People Look Back on Their Lives, What Are Some Common Regrets They Have? (http://www.slate.com/blogs/quora/2013/06/08/when_people_look_back_on_their_lives_what_are_some _common_regrets_they_have.html)

The catch is that we women are not informed of this difference until too late and you gotta look out for number one, ladies. You only go around once. That conventional wisdom that men want their women barefoot and pregnant isn't true at all, I think many men would be happy with zero offspring and are not above stringing along the women in their lives to have more time/money to indulge their every cognac-soaked whim.

1more you have to give your husband that much at least, he's telling the truth about his lack of interest in more kids - there are many guys who promise one thing and then just delay, delay, delay until it's too late. I would give him as much time as you can to wrap his head around it, he may come around. Best wishes.

[maidentomother]

Ugh, that is just disgusting. You have such a way with words atomic, I really LOLed at the decrepitude comment (best use of that word EVER) and 'every cognac-soaked whim'. Bc being cool is SO IMPORTANT omg.

I myself am a cautionary tale, I had a DH that kept saying 'later' but I just didn't want to admit to myself that later meant never or too late.. We even had discussed it before marriage (it was my only real condition, kids while young), but I let him have too much say. I even let him pressure me into an abortion when I got pregnant on BC after we were married, shame on me. Then a year later he was dead. So you never know what could happen, he was 27 and had a heart attack out of the blue. Seize the day ladies!

[1moregirl]

Oh Wow Maidentomother - you really have been through a lot. It must've been such a huge shock losing your husband when he was just 27. Atomic - I do get what you are saying. My DH even said to me once that he would probably be saying yes to one last try if he/we were younger, but we are not....just today I have gotten my first positive OPK for this cycle (CD 16) and I have been Oing the last few cycles on CD 17 so I guess tonight would've been the perfect time? Bugger. Yet we have been BD every second night this last week so that may not be a good thing? It definitely has to be every 4 days doesn't it? Maybe I should buy him some alcohol and ply him with it tonight and he might loosen up and give in. Lol! Oh well...I will continue on with the Equinol for another cycle and aim for an attempt next cycle and maybe by then I might've won him over. I just know wherever I go (like the shopping centre today) I am seeing pregnant women and newborn babies and just feel a huge yearning inside of me. Plus am catching up with a friend in 2 days who is due with her 3rd bubbly next week and I know that I will be wishing my belly was almost as big (as it should've been by now if I had not miscarried that last time). I have to try one last time. If it ends the same way as last time then I will accept that my time is up as far as baby making goes and will just be happy with the three blessings we already have. I'm going to put pen to paper now and see if I can get DH to understand that way. :)

[1moregirl]

Thanks for taking the time to reply Pink-Bean. I hope it all works out for you Hun and I totally understand what you are saying. If this next step doesn't work out for me then I will definitely accept that a 4th child just wasn't on the cards for me and will be happy with the three I have already. I might sound ungrateful at times, I know, but I really am grateful that I was blessed just to receive one beautiful girl from God and my two boys. I love them all to pieces and think it's probably a good thing I started later in life as if I'd started younger I could well have 8 children by now. Lol!

[1moregirl]

I totally agree with you PinkBean and no, I didn't think you had previously implied that I was ungrateful...but sometimes I think I myself sound ungrateful and might do so to others as well. :)

[Dreamsister]

1moregirl I have been in exact same situation. The last 3 years I have had baby fever and trying to persuade DH to comit to a 4th child (we have 3 boys aged 5, 8 and 9). We have discussed it over and over again a million times. He thinks 3 is enough. He think it will destroy the harmony we have in our family. He is happy for the place we have come to finally after many hard years of baby-work where we can do a lot of things with our boys, we have more freedom and he don't want us to move back to square one. I am 40, he is 38 and he thinks we have become too old to start over again with a baby in the house. Plus he thinks there is too little time for the 3 darlings he already have. And then there is the financial aspect: bigger car, more expenses.... Long story short: DH is totally right, from a rational point of view I should just accept and enjoy my family as it is, but aghhhhh I just can't take away the baby craving. So after 3 years of discussing the issue back and forth DH have finally said ok to another baby. He totally do it for me and because I have promised him that I will take care of it and not complaint when I am tired after sleepless nights and I have promised him that the baby will not come between us. I am so gratefull. It is the biggest gift ever. I am also aware of the huge responsible by bringing a new member into our family. I think he thinks that I am selfish because it is MY dream - not his. But I can't help it. Just hope I am doing the right thing - for all of us.

So I just want to say to you don't give up. Keep discussing your baby dream with your husband. Don't get mad at him. Show him your love. Try to see it from his perspective and assure him that everything will be ok, that he should not worry and nothing will be taken away from him by adding a new member to the family. Cross my finger that you will be able to convince him.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[atomic sagebrush]

One of these days I'll be in a bad mood and come back and share my "cautionary tale" - which is even when it's agreed to at the start there is nothing preventing men from either changing their minds, or making your life so difficult that you change your own mind even when it isn't always in your own self-interest. I will just say again - look out for number one, because you can't count on anyone to do that for you. :/

[Dreamsister]

Just want to add that I think men are totally right to say no to having more kids if they already have 3 or 4.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[adnilleinad]

I will agree with pink bean. I might come from a different society, perhaps bit more gender equal, where men actually do take (almost) 50 % of the work with the kids.. I think having a child is not just a compromise that is a huge commitment for life. And he did have 3. That Said, who am I to say 3 is alot. Everyone have their own preference and desire. I'm really sorry you struggeling with the clock here, and that you dont share the same dream. My DH would have been fine with just 2, but happy with a 3rd too. he did support HT for a girl. I'm very greatful. Now, i would not have wanted a 4th, but f I would have, he would NEVER Agreed. Sorry and good luck, accepting or getting him to change his mind.

[1moregirl]

This post is a bit dated now but, as Atomic knows, I have since posted a new thread somewhere stating how my DH has agreed to one last try. It's not ideal, but to me it's better than nothing and I won't look a gift horse in the mouse, so to speak. If I have the courage plucked up, we will be trying this next cycle. I am due for AF in a few days time. We will just Bd every 3 days and do our one attempt when I get a positive OPK. I will then pray like crazy and leave the rest in God's hands.

[atomic sagebrush]

Just want to add that I think men are totally right to say no to having more kids if they already have 3 or 4.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Why?

[Dreamsister]

Because I think it is okey to 'deny' your partner more children if you already have 3 or 4 together. I think that some woman can be really persuading. On the other hand I sometimes feel sorry for the woman that openly has a desire for more than two children but the husband won't let them. I have a friend who's husband only wants one child and the women has luckely accepted that although I know she is secretly suffering and wanting more. I think the number of children can be an issue and fight for many couples. Sorry for my bad english.

[atomic sagebrush]

I will agree with pink bean. I might come from a different society, perhaps bit more gender equal, where men actually do take (almost) 50 % of the work with the kids.. I think having a child is not just a compromise that is a huge commitment for life. And he did have 3. That Said, who am I to say 3 is alot. Everyone have their own preference and desire. I'm really sorry you struggeling with the clock here, and that you dont share the same dream. My DH would have been fine with just 2, but happy with a 3rd too. he did support HT for a girl. I'm very greatful. Now, i would not have wanted a 4th, but f I would have, he would NEVER Agreed. Sorry and good luck, accepting or getting him to change his mind.

Well, let's not start bringing people's cultures or societies into it, ok?? It leaves a bad taste in my mouth.

Things start to look different once you get to a "certain age". Take this for whatever it's worth, I know that all middle aged women seem unhinged and faintly hysterical when they try to warn younger women about stuff, kinda like Bruce Willis in "12 Monkeys". I come from the future, I"m trying to help you. :p https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cassandra_%28metaphor%29

It is just a biological reality that women's fertility is limited by time and men's isn't. Men can and do get bored with their marriages and start up again with a new family and it happens every day. They may try to dress it up in glowing romanticized terms or blame their wives' postpartum weight gain, but it's boredom. It is a huge commitment for life, true, but one that men can walk away from at any point and simply write a check thereafter, and studies have shown their quality of life goes up afterwards while their ex-wife and childrens', declines. If it doesn't happen to you (and I don't mean you personally, I mean just any female individual), that is because you're lucky, not because you're better or wiser than any of the poor women it DID happen to. Women who do everything right, married to the nicest guys in the world just wake up one morning and find a text on a phone that turns their worlds upside down.

A LOT of us ladies are in situations where we postponed families for our husbands' careers or schooling or because they made bad financial or personal decisions or because men "just don't want to settle" down till they're 40 or whatever. Their decisions affect us HUGELY and we go along with it because we're young and dumb and eager to please. They absolutely change their minds about the life plan all the time, changing the terms of the agreement we thought we had made, taking different jobs that we may not want them to or wanting to move to a different house or buy a boat instead of going to Disneyland, etc etc etc and their choices impact our lives just as much as the decision to have a child might affect them.

These decisions that husband/partner makes and made, even years ago, may mean we don't end up with the family that we wanted or the son/daughter that we wanted or the security and lifestyle that we wanted for raising our kids in. It may mean we can't enjoy raising our child(ren) as much as we wanted to, because of their choices. It is a lose-lose for us on every front because first we were good girls, so understanding, and let our men set the pace, and then when we are supposed to get what we want, they won't go along with it. We may change our minds and decide we want 4 instead of 3. And that is ok. Women should have the right to change their minds as we get older and have more experience and self-awareness about what is really important to us. Maybe we missed out on some stuff and want another chance to experience it again. The decision to have more children has no more an impact than a decision that a husband makes to switch to a different job, or return to school, or any number of things that men decide that have an effect on our long term lives. I just do not see the sense in we women sacrificing for men again and again and then them giving up on the families that we want to have and not even being willing to negotiate on that. It isn't fair.

WE are the bad guys if we aren't totally supportive of their choices with careers and schooling early on, and STILL the bad guy 10-20 years later if we want another baby. They say no, no, no, and then in 3 years they shack up with the secretary and have 2 more kids and we move on to the "Lean Cuisine in front of the TV stage of life" In the meantime men certainly do seem to be able to have just about everything their own way and we play the role of bad guy in everything no matter the stage of life.

"Insane unsupportive woman who doesn't want to live on food stamps and wants husband to slave away at unfulfilling job when he'd rather be skydiving"

"Insane unsupportive woman who wants ANOTHER kid, she already has 3 for Christ's sake, it is cutting in on my skydiving"

"Insane unsupportive ex-wife who is so all consumingly bitter and jealous of this beautiful love that I have found with Felicia the Fake-breasted skydiving instructor"

Look out for number one, ladies. Because while I'm painting with broad brushstrokes here for the sake of humor, it does kinda go down like that for a lot of very nice women who thought they'd done everything right. :/

[atomic sagebrush]

Because I think it is okey to 'deny' your partner more children if you already have 3 or 4 together. I think that some woman can be really persuading. On the other hand I sometimes feel sorry for the woman that openly has a desire for more than two children but the husband won't let them. I have a friend who's husband only wants one child and the women has luckely accepted that although I know she is secretly suffering and wanting more. I think the number of children can be an issue and fight for many couples. Sorry for my bad english.

Would you want her husband to be suffering at a job he hated for the rest of his whole life though?? And at least, he could hope that his job got better and the door wouldn't be closed FOREVER for him the way it can be for us. I just think the expectation is women are expected to "get over it" and (many) men act like it's some huge deal if they're not totally fulfilled every second of every day. Total double standard IMO

There are definitely some women who ride the baby train too long but at the same time I just see this difference in expectations between men and women where women are the compromisers on pretty much EVERYthing.

[maidentomother]

Amen, atomic! Like you this issue is a huge one for me, I also have personal experience so it really resonates. So much TRUTH to that post and LOLZ too, especially at the end. What's depressing is just how realistic those last scenarios are. :(

Unless/until mind-melding is possible I don't think a lot of men will ever be able to understand where women are coming from, bc of how strong the biological imperative is for women and bc it is just SO utterly different from male fertility & priorities.

[1moregirl]

I totally agree with Atomic too. I think it's all very well for other ladies to say - "oh get over it. You have 3 already from him so he has every right to say no to 4 or more," but it is mostly women who have their DH on the same page as them that give these comments. Unless you are in this position yourself, or have a woman in your life you are close to in the same boat, you really can't give that opinion. Marriage is a partnership and, like I explained it to my DH, people who are married and in disagreement on a major topic (such as more kids) really need to come to a compromise. I didn't get to start having babies til I was 36 (which was very lucky for me I know) yet before that I had nothing but bad luck when it came to meeting the right man and someone whom I could settle down with and have children with. I seemed to be like a magnet that attracted all the commitment-phobic men that were not interested in settling down with one woman let alone marriage and children (the very men that Atomic describes). And I know I'm not the only one. There are MANY of us women in this day and age that pay the price for living in an era where many men are against settling down and committing themselves until they are in their 30s. We pay the ultimate price of having to postpone having babies and wasting our most fertile years because many men don't want want the commitment of settling down and starting families. And, Atomic is sooo spot on with everything she says. Men just don't have the same biological clicking tock that we women do. Yes I admitted that the last time I got pregnant (when I miscarried) I slightly deceived my DH and got pregnant, yet it wasn't that unethical. He showed up and BD with me, his wife, without a condom. Yet so many other women judged me and went crook and they don't even know the first thing about me or my DH or our relationship. Unless you know someone else's history and what their story is all about, you have no right to judge them. Yes there are plenty of men out there who aren't commitment-phobic - but there are a hell of a lot out there that are. And considering it's our bodies that do all the hard work in growing a new life and then birthing it after 9 months, I simply do not believe that men should have the last and final say as to whether we should do it again or not. It should not be completely up to them. That is my opinion and no one's going to change it. Fortunately, I have gotten my DH to agree to one last try, but it did take one large argument and some compromising for us to get there.

[maidentomother]

Well said, it is hell dating in your 30s! I haaaate it.

[trifecta]

I'm glad your husband agreed to give it another chance and I hope you get a baby out of it.

I had a post encouraging you to start working out your feelings related to the end of your childbearing not only because your husband hadn't agreed to it but because realistically not everyone is able to continue having healthy children in their mid-forties and I think it's better not to get so spooled up.

Most of us do have a strong biological urge to have children but we are more than just our urges and things don't always work out. Eventually every mother--not just some but every--confronts the end of having babies or being the mother of small kids and we all need to be able to make peace with it.

I really hope it works out for you but if it doesn't it really isn't the end of the world not to be a able to realize a fantasy. I think swaying gives you a good shot at realizing your dream of a another baby girl but if you look around this board there are lots of women who have had to make peace with reality because it doesn't always match our fantasies. And that has to be ok.

Anyway, good luck and I hope it all works out the way you want.

[atomic sagebrush]

Can I just say this is an interesting thread and I appreciate and admire the viewpoints of everyone who has chimed in!?! This is not a cut and dry thing at all and I really applaud everyone who is able to share differing opinions civilly. This site and those who come here - you totally ROCK!!

[1moregirl]

Trifecta - thanks sooo much Hun for your post and I totally get everything you said. Sooo true...many of us Mums will never really be able to stop our urge to have another baby and just the sight of a newborn fills us with a nurturing desire we can't control, but yes we will all inevitably come to a stage in our life where we have to accept and make peace with the fact that there will be no more babies for us in this life. If that happens to me this next time then so be it....I won't be getting my hopes up, trust me. I am going into this completely level headed and aware of the possible outcomes. I will just be praying to God that it results in a healthy baby but we'll see.